#245: Your Brain on Separation: Why You Are Spinning and How to Stop

If your partner has asked for space, you probably feel like you're holding your breath. You walk around with your stomach and that's checking your phone every five minutes, wondering if reaching out will make it worse. You keep thinking, what if I already ruined it? I know this place. It's exhausting. It's disorienting. And the worst part, you don't even know what the rules are anymore. But you're not crazy. You're in a survival state. Your nervous system is screaming for safety because to your body, separation feels like danger. This is Love Shack Live, the podcast for people standing at a relationship relationships crossroads. Couples and individuals who are tired of conflict, confusion, and the growing gap between you and the person that you love. I'm Stacy Bartley, a relationship mentor, joined by my co host and lover, Tom, and our daughter Brooke. And together we teach what most of us were never taught, the actual skills of love and relationships. Today, we're going to start right where you are, in the middle of chaos. Because before you can repair the connection, you have to understand yourself. Before you can communicate clearly, you have to calm the alarm signals relentlessly firing inside of your body. Until you do, every text or no text, every word or every silence, every look or lack thereof will feel like proof that they're coming home to you or that it's over. Hence the emotional roller coaster ride.

Hey, thank you for coming. The Love Shack.

So in this episode, I'm going to guide you through a practice we call sit your butt down and breathe. It's how we begin every day inside of the Love and Limbo roadmap. And it's the first step to helping your body experience the feeling of feeling safe once again. And when you can do this, when you can find calm and clarity before you engage, everything begins to change for you. The first thing that I want to talk to you about in regards to sit your butt down is the realization that neurologically, when your nervous system is flooded, your logical brain goes offline and spins out of control. It becomes actually hyper focused on finding safety in the form of answers and protection. And it's relentless in pursuing those two things. However, anytime you sit down and you breathe, your emotional sense of self and your nervous system can calm down. It's like all of a sudden, it's this space where you can think and you can feel and you can go between the two in a place and a space that starts to make you feel anchored in any given moment. I call it sit your butt down and breathe because I'm wanting you to understand that it's prayer. When I get down on my knees and pray, or I pray to what I call Gus, God, universe and spirit, or I meditate in a more formal fashion, we're doing the same thing. Anytime a human being sits down and breathes, it gives us this wonderful place and space within us. At any given moment, it's accessible and we can sit down and connect with ourselves. That's why we can't stop replaying conversations or reading silence. And the code is because we are looking for answers externally and we need to first calm the storm internally. So sit your butt down and breathe, I think, is a name that just encompasses all the ancient practices, regardless of what culture or religion you come from, we just understand now how it works. I can think and I can feel and I can ground myself right now in any given moment. And inside the roadmap, as I already mentioned, we start every single day with something like this. It's not fancy, it's not a meditation app. It's the first step to getting your ability to think and feel, operating together. And it's the first step that you need to get yourself out of panic so you can find ease and ultimately respond instead of react, which is where we're going to build on. So we're going to do one right now. And you don't need to close your eyes if you're driving. You just need to focus on your breathing and follow the sound of my voice. So here we go. Sit your butt down and breathe. Wherever you are. I want you to focus on the rise and fall of your chest and nothing else. Feel it as you inhale, your chest becomes bigger, more inflated. Hold it for a minute at the top and then focus on the exhale through your mouth and feel your chest as you do that for a moment, just feel. Stay right here, getting in tune with the rise and fall of your chest. That movement, that inhale and that exhale, letting go, that movement means you're here, you're alive, you've got another moment, another opportunity. All is well here. As long as I'm breathing. And do it again. The rise and the fall of your chest. And acutely focus on that. Now I want you to feel your feet on the floor or your car if you're driving. Feel your feet. Feel the space and place where you're supported. Your body is being literally supported right now. And feel that. Feel that heaviness, feel that groundedness. I am being supported here in this moment. And then bring your focus back to your breath. Inhale and exhale and Now I want you to focus on slowing all of that down. The breath on, the inhale becomes slower, longer and the exhale becomes longer. And as you do a couple more here for me, just letting yourself become heavier, more grounded, more supported. It gives us a place and a space where we go, I'm okay right here. I'm supported right here. And now, on your next inhale, I want you to do one more thing for me. I want you to inhale the feeling or the sense or the imagination, the idea of calm, breathing in all the potential, the possibilities, the good stuff, and exhale out all of the panic and the worry. Because as I exhale, I literally am letting go and I can sink deeper into being supported in this moment. So let's do it again. Inhale, hope, possibility, dare I say joy, calm, peace. And exhale. Worry, stress, unknown, uncertainty. And gift yourself a few more of those. Here, give me three more. Inhale the good, the joy, the hope, the possibility, and exhale out worry, stress, the need to control. Now listen to me. You don't have to fix anything right now in this space. You don't have to prove and demonstrate that you care or that you're right. You don't have to convince them of anything. You don't even have to make sense of the silence. Your partner's space isn't rejection. It's information and truth telling. It's their nervous system saying to them, I need to calm down, just like you do. So together, we exhale. And I also want you to know that you can honor that without losing and sacrificing yourself during this time. I want you to know that the good, the love, the laughter, the moments that mattered in your relationship, even though you might find yourself right here, still count. And they will, forever and always count. The good still is good. Celebrate it. I promise you, you will find this good again. And the good news, you're in charge of finding it. No one else is. So take that in. And I'm going to say that again. The good is good. And you will have it again because you're in charge of it. Nobody else is. Okay, if you did close your eyes, open them, and I want you to recognize and reflect for just a half a second right here, how good that feels. Even just letting go and releasing a teeny tiny bit is huge in scope. And if I needed to do this every hour on the hour, how long did it take us? Two minutes maybe. So use it. It's a great tool. It works. And it's worked for ages. Again. That's where prayer comes from. It's where meditation comes from. Now, neurologically, we know why it works. It gives us a moment to just calm our nervous systems. It's your body remembering what safety feels like and that you can actually create it for yourself anytime you need it. Inside the roadmap, that's the feeling we help you build on every single day. One day and one breath and one conversation at a time. Anything the two of you want to say about sit your butt down and breathe?

No, I know. We've members tell us or people that are in the roadmap tell us. This becomes their favorite part of the roadmap.

I was going to say the same thing you say. They can't imagine starting their day without it when the roadmap is over, because it really is.

And you're going to learn in the roadmap also that this is step one of any intentional task I need to do. Like I need to stop and pause here and kind of get to that place where I feel like I'm connecting and calming down. Then I can decide what it is I need to do. And again, that's because you've calmed the brain enough to tap into the wisdom that you carry within yourself and your brain and your emotions can actually have a conversation. One is not usurping the other, which is often the case. If I'm reacting right, I'm emotionally reacting and I'm out of control, or my brain is coming up with all of these crazy, outlandish things that I should be doing as I'm hyper focused on something and I'm totally disengaged with how this is going to impact me in the long run.

When your partner asks for space, it puts you automatically in the passenger seat, or so we make it up to be. So you kind of feels like you have to stop living your life because you're like, well, I don't know. I don't know. Can. Can I even buy groceries? What if they come back? Even that little of a decision can feel so hard because it feels like you're not in charge of your life anymore. So the roadmap really reminds you, in a good way, in a powerful way, that that's not true. And you're just making that up because you don't know how to navigate the situation. But this simple practice of sitting down and breathing can remind you, just like mom 2 said, you are in charge of whether or not you experience the good again. It's not up to anyone else but you. And I think that powerful reminder can Also remind you that even though you're in a period of waiting in your relationship, it doesn't mean you have to stop living. And you shouldn't stop living. Because that's why we get into these terrible places of despair and pain and obsessive thinking and wanting, wondering what we should text them, and constantly looking at our phone every five minutes and seeing no messages. All of those things make you feel powerless, but it's a lie. You're not. You just don't know the exact places that you still have a ton of decisions to make and a ton of power to gain back. And that's. That's what the roadmap really is about.

Yeah. You recognizing and realizing, oh, you still have a tremendous amount of power. And that I'm giving you the gift of waiting. Because I don't have to wait. I can choose to move on. I'm in charge of my life and how I choose to spend it. And so waiting is one of the greatest gifts that we give in the name of love and in the name of hope that things will turn around and come back together, but in a better way. So I also want to talk about the real problem here for a moment. Relationships don't end because we take space or time to regroup and recollect ourselves. The reality is, if we could learn how to take space in our daily lives with ourselves, we probably wouldn't need space from my partner, from my life. But that's a conversation that we've never had. That is a conversation that we have never been taught. And it's literally a skill. And it's really important for us to understand that they end because we lose emotional safety and we literally run out of emotional gas to continue. We literally fry ourselves out because we won't honor that need to just take some time for ourselves or to create a time of space and to figure out what I'm thinking and feeling first before engaging. I'm consistently reacting and running myself ragged and dry or not being able to speak up or ask for what it is I need or disclose the things that truly take a toll on me over time. Because I don't want to be an asshole. I don't want to be the person that creates a problem. I'm trying to stay out of conflict, not created. And so we literally won't give any space to those things. And those are the things that run us out of emotional gas. Running out of emotional gas looks like we panic, we chase, we shut down, and we call it a communication problem. Yes, we can become better at how we say things. But until we can regulate ourselves, your response will continue to be, well, shitty for yourself and towards others. You can't communicate your way out of dysregulation. You have to practice your way into clarity and calm. And that's what the Roadmap does. It gives you the structure and the much needed understanding as well as a community, so that you can learn to stay steady even when everything around you feels uncertain and like it's falling apart. You can regroup and you can recenter and you can start to take back some of those things that you do have control over. Very simple things. But those simple things become ultimately very empowering to you.

Yeah, you're gonna have to get yourself into some kind of a new rhythm here and a new practice for you to create something differently. It's. Brooke and Stacy and I have all been through this, so it's interesting to think that even when I was experiencing this, I could just do what Brooke mentioned or what Stacy meant. Like, we think we can just read a book, and those are all good things. Believe me, we love to read books. But this is such an intense emotional space that, to be fair, we've never had any preparation for. So if you're not going to give it some type of understanding where you've got to do some things that are much different, not really in a dramatic manner, but in a behavioral manner. And this first thing that we decided as a team is actually Brooke's idea. Great idea, Brooke. To show you. This is a woman I lived with for 15 years, and her voice, I was calm just experiencing it while we were recording the podcast. I often hear on my clarity calls, oh, my gosh, I love the sound of your wife's voice. I think, well, thank you. So do I. Because it's very calm. So we're reeling at such high rates of speed. You're never going to be able to outrun yourself in this particular experience. So everything in Roadmap is designed to, as Stacy shares often, is to learn how to regulate ourselves. And we have to do that first by slowing down because we can't outpace ourselves. That's how we become exhausted. This has been around for thousands of years. Whatever. Don't get tripped up on what you call it. It's just to slow yourself down.

I keep thinking of this scenario in my head while we're having this conversation of maybe, like, it could be a husband or a wife, but they're like, honey, I'm feeling really overwhelmed, and I think it would be good for Me, if maybe I took a day to myself or took a couple of days to myself, maybe I could go get a hotel or something. If you don't have any skills to regulate, that would possibly be the most threatening thing you've ever heard come out of your spouse's mouth. But to them, it's a cry for help. They are struggling. They are recognizing that they're out of emotional gas. They need some space to collect themselves. To you, it feels like they're saying, I'm getting a divorce from you, I hate you. I need to get away from you. So the instant those words exit their mouths, they're taking a risk because they know this is probably going to set you off. But they're at their wits and they don't know what else to do. The second you hear it, everything sets off on you. You become an unsafe person because your goal is to keep them from doing that. You're absolutely not, you're not going to get a day away from me. We need to go on a date night. We need to have sex. We need to do any we possibly can to repair this in the moment we're in right now. They couldn't want anything less than that. They don't want to have sex with you. They don't want to go on a date night. They are feeling out of control. They need some time to get away. But that scenario just presented itself in my brain because I've had that happen to me. My partner has come to me and said, we need to take some time. And I've made that absolutely not possible because I felt so threatened by their request because I knew we were struggling too. But I thought if they took the space, it would immediately lead to a breakup, which I now know is not true. So you can just see in that thing I've just described, the two people in that relationship are having such different experiences. Both of them are trying to protect the connection in totally opposite ways. But when the person who is being request for space reacts like that, kind of like a scared cat, and is like grabbing anything they possibly can to keep you there, it's literally the worst thing you could do. But you feel like it's the best thing you can do. But you're doing that because you have no self regulation skills. Your self regulation is by reaching out to your partner and getting connection. But when your partner is out of emotional gas, that's not a possibility anymore. And that's when you need to say, wow, I really freaked out. I really need to work on how I can give myself that feeling. But we don't ever think about that because that's not ever been presented as an option to us. But I just wanted to share that because I know those two responses are so common. It's not calling you to get divorce papers. It's calling you to figure out some new ways to soothe and regulate and create emotional safety.

Yeah. That takes me to a couple of questions, one for you that I want to ask, but I want to make this statement first. First, if we just sit in the place and space when somebody has basically moved out or said, I can't do this anymore, that's the classic, right? And then nothing new happens, nothing changes, right? And so you've got one person, as you've described, is just kind of sitting there freaking out. You know, you're going to run out of gas. You're going to create all kinds of potentially physical challenges, mental, emotional challenges, because you think, I just got to sit here and wait long enough, and then this is all going to work out without recognizing and realizing you've arrived here for a reason. And the person that's moved on is going to cope in certain ways as well. Because no learning, no new skills, no principles, no understanding about how we've arrived here. And more importantly, how do we come back together and do it differently in what we call a 2.0. How does that happen? How does that take place? And that's why we see so many examples of when somebody takes space, the whole thing blows up because we can't grant that space and that understanding with skills and principles in the first place. We can't understand that. It was just like what we were doing at the beginning when I said, sit your butt down and breathe. There is time to inhale and there is times to exhale, just like there are times to be connected as lovers. And then there's times where I need to exhale and go spend some time by myself. There is a natural, inevitable flow where I need to remember that I'm a person on my own, and I'm good there and I'm safe there, and I'm clear and I understand my own thoughts and my own feelings. And then I need to come back in and I need to be able to merge and share them with you. And that's what makes great intimacy happen. We just, like, couldn't inhale forever and say, okay, we're no longer going to exhale because you and I are married and in this relationship and we have kids and finances together. No more than I could say, okay, you're only going to exhale now and be on your own because experiences and intimate relationships don't work like that. It's an ebb and a flow. It's an inhale, it's an exhale. There are times I need to be with me so that I can understand some things and work through some things with myself. And then once I do, I can bring that back and we can actually create better intimacy and connection because we each have a clear space of where we are. Was ironic that the very space that is being demonstrated. The first metaphoric lesson is we need to learn how to be separate as an individual person before we can understand how to bring it back together in a better way. And that's essentially what's happening. And if we do nothing different in the waiting, whether I'm the anxious person or the person who's right going, God, I'm going to die here if I don't reconnect with myself, well, then inevitably is going to sever the relationship, not because there isn't other potential or possibility within it, but because you don't understand what's going on. The question that I had for you is, you know, being the anxious person, the person that we classify or quantify as the person who is avoiding is actually the person who has coped for a long time and has learned the ability to let go. So that's where I'm going to go when I realize I am so out of sorts with myself. I'm going to exhale. And then there's the anxious side. Okay, the anxious side, though. And I'd like you to speak to this isn't that they aren't out of emotional gas too. Right. They're just going to think that if I just get you to come close and touch me and we have sex and you come home and everything is going to be okay, then maybe I'll find that refueling emotionally that I need with inside of myself too. So we're both trying to get the same thing, but we're just approaching it from two very different inhale exhales examples. So when you are in a place where you're begging and pleading somebody to please, just, you know, stay here, don't do anything, do you find that to be emotionally exhaustive for yourself as well?

Yeah, it's like in the example that you gave. I feel like so many couples when they begin their relationships, they're so entrenched in their archetypes, so to speak. Like they're very anxious, very avoidant when they come together. And so that's kind of how you. That's your roles in your relationship. And I think as the relationship goes on, a lot of times you become less avoidant and less anxious just because you become more comfortable with each other. But there's never, like, I never have started a relationship feeling like I'm good as an individual, you know, Like, I need the other person there for me to feel like the relationship is okay. It's not necessarily like I need the relationship to be okay. I just need them there. I need them with me, you know, And I think that's such a misconception that we have about love and relationships, that we don't understand that just because they're there doesn't mean they're really there. Just because they're physically in the room doesn't mean they're with you or that your relationship is good. So I think. I don't know, it's like. It's this very big kind of realization I'm having on this episode right now that that is such a big crux of our relationship problems is that anxious people haven't figured out that they need to be okay on their own. Like, it doesn't mean you need to go be single from your partner. It means you need to learn how to soothe yourself and fix your own problems and understand that if your partner's gonna be away a while, that you're not gonna die. That's exhausting for the avoidant person to feel that they can never leave you or that they can never have a moment of maybe needing some space where you don't think your relationship is on the chopping block. That's not sustainable. But so many relationships have been set up to the point where now if someone asks for space, all of our comments in social media say, well, it's over. Why are you even trying to fix it? Because that is the story we've all told ourselves. So back to your original question. Yes, it's so emotionally exhausting to beg and plead for your partner to not take the space or to not go, because it feels like if they say no, you know that you're not going to change their mind. By begging and pleading, you're exerting all of this energy and feeling like the inevitable is going to happen anyways and there's no way to stop it. And your anxiety is just off the charts, but you still have to try. It's like the worst no win situation ever.

And don't you find it interesting? The principle is this. A person who is anxious would be such a Gift to the whole. If they could remember to just stop and pause and find that grounded place inside of themselves, like, that would be the thing that is being asked of them. To practice, to control the things that you need without realizing you don't need another person. You need yourself. And every anxious person I've ever said that to goes, no way. Just like the avoidant person is practicing the other side. And I think because there's some physical presence there, just like you said so elegantly, you know, that just because the person is there doesn't mean they're there. So we're talking about the emotional nuances of. And so it's so easy for us to say, well, the avoidant person should just learn how to show up, you know, be there physically and present when actually they're doing the very thing you need to learn how to do yourself as an anxious person. And the anxious person that has the ability to come and engage even though they're hurting is the thing that the avoidant person needs to learn how to do so that we can inhale and exhale on our own. Because otherwise it does. It creates this very.

What's it? There's a significant imbalance.

Well, the thing I want to impress upon the people listening is that if that's how your relationship is currently set up, just like dad and mom too said, there is no balance, but there's no foundation to rely on because you're always responding to the whims of whichever. The anxious or avoidant, whichever is leading currently. You know, like whichever one of those coping styles is taking the lead in your relationship, that's kind of how you're living. So it's like if the avoidant person is being extra avoidant, then the anxious person feels extra anxious and vice versa. There's never a feeling of safety or like everything's okay because the anxious person feels like they have to respond to every avoidant tendency. You know, like, oh, God, he came in and he's acting kind of distant. That must mean he's thinking about breaking up with me. So I need to be extra responsive and make sure that I need to say the perfect thing. That's terrible way to live. But so many couples live like that. And that is exactly why space is needed.

Yeah, exactly. That won't. That's. Talk about unsustainable. My gosh. I mean, come on, let's just be totally objective here. There's this inherent sense that if we just get things back to how they were, we're going to be fine. Really.

You don't want that. Well, yeah, because that's going to lead you to.

It's a circle. You're just going to go around the circle again.

All the stimulus in our world is not all of a sudden going to come to a stop because you're back together again. Let's just be fair, you know. So the happily ever after story that we've all bought into, some version of it, is really a huge disservice because happily ever after is only within each of us. And then if we can come together and learn how to truly leverage off of each other, that's if there is a secret that if Stacy and I maybe have a secret, that's it. We're able to leverage off. Neither one of us completes us any more than how we are. But if you can get into some rhythm with your special someone after a lot of practice and a lot of emotional reps that you don't stop doing, then, yeah, you can. You can leverage. You can support and help and ask genuine, with curiosity about what's going on for your partner and then help them.

Yeah. Another thought I'm having is that you should not fight more the longer you're together. You should fight less because you. You know what I mean? Like, so many people do that they fight more the longer they're together. And that means you're not learning new skills and you're not practicing new things. It means you're growing further apart, not further together. In my opinion, if you're doing this the way that we would like you to, which, you know, makes it easier for you, you fight more when you're coming together because you're figuring things out. You know, you're coming together. It's hard. You have to compromise on things that maybe you've never had to compromise on before. You're learning each other. So Jack and I did. We fought a lot when we came together. Now we don't fight really at all because. But that's taken a lot of work. Just like dad said, we've had to learn how each other communicates. We've had to understand what unnecessarily triggers the other one and stop doing that. Because just so you know, when something triggers your partner and it's not essential to who you are as a person, you should stop doing that. Like, unless it's like, an essential part of your personality where you're just not willing to stop you being that kind of person. Well, maybe it's not going to work out between the two of you, but if it's something that's not really important. Or, like, you could just let it go. That is an option. You could just let it go, and then you don't fight about that anymore. I feel like we've gotten this all mixed up because there's so much competing advice and so much noise. You have to be on the same page about everything or your relationship isn't going to work. There's so much stuff you have to weed through. If you guys aren't fighting less than you used to, it doesn't mean that you are with the wrong person. It means you need some new tools and skills. That's all that means. And then once you have the tools and skills, it means you have to practice them in the heat of the moment, and that's going to be hard. But the more you do it, the easier it gets. And then the longer you practice and the more you use the skills in the heat of the moment, you stop the fights before they start. That's really how all this works. We make it like, you know, we have to be a perfect person or we have to find the perfect partner. No, that's not true at all. My parents are not perfect. Me and Jack are not perfect. We've just learned some tools and skills, and then we've tried to use them. That's it.

I agree. So you have some real questions from our listeners, actually, from people who have.

Taken our Space Assessment Quiz. We gave an opportunity for the people who take the quiz to ask a question for this exact podcast episode, and we've gotten quite a few of them.

Well, and FYI, if you want to go take the quiz, and you haven't yet, I would really encourage you to. There's some really insightful good stuff there that kind of gets you going.

There'll be a link in the show notes. Brookie, for the quiz.

Yes.

Okay. There you go.

All right.

Question.

Yes.

Here's the first question. It's a very deep question. How do you repair what's been broken and fix our ways before I lose her completely?

I think we just touched on that one. To be fair. I think we just talked about that. We repair what's been broken by practicing and understanding the dynamics of interpersonal relationships and the skills that we need to start practicing to go in a different way. And that is exactly what the roadmap is designed to do very intentionally. And it's laid out the way it is because we have to begin where we are. And so it will build on itself week after week. And we need to understand that nobody is essentially Doing it wrong. Essentially, everybody's doing the very best they know how. And because we get stuck in these very real human patterns of being anxious and avoidant, we're both attempting to do the same thing. We're just coping with it in what I call polar opposite ways. Okay? And remember, that's what ends relationships. So, in essence, the conversation that we've just had up to this moment is a deeper answer to the question one, how do you repair what's been broken?

As a caveat to question one, name some of the skills they will learn in the roadmap that will actually help them do the repair. Do you get what I mean?

Yes. Well, so a big one is learning how to regulate yourself. Like, that's just a big one. I don't need to run away, right? And I don't need to beg and plead somebody to come close, because as we've touched on already, you being in my space doesn't mean you're really there. How do I do that when I am in a spiral and I don't know what to do? How the heck do I stop it when I know that I'm reacting? How do I reset so I can approach it from what we call a do over space? How do I understand defensiveness and taking things personal? How is it that I can say what I need to say in a way that it can actually be heard, not ignite conflict, but actually gives me the ability to put a toe in the water? What is manipulation really? What are the principles that I need to understand about human connection and relationships? You're going to learn all of these things on the roadmap. That's why it's 30 days that stack on top of each other. So you're going to learn communication skills, very specific ones. You're going to learn the ability to emotionally regulate yourself, because we all are going to need to have moments of space for ourselves internally so that I can understand my own thoughts and feelings and then bring those back to our relationship for further understanding. So that we are essentially pursuing the goal, like Brooke said, that we fight less over time because we understand ourselves and each other more. And it builds confidence and a sense of unification that we can get through anything. That's where that comes from. And then, yes, there are going to be some places and spaces as far as frameworks go. We talk about agreements, we talk about skills to navigating those. So you're going to learn a lot, actually. And so I hope that that's helpful to see. Oh, yes, there are very real, very Tactile skills and principles that you are going to learn. And not only learn, but more importantly, practice so that you can incorporate them in your life. You want to be coming from such a place where she once again remembers the incredible human being that you are. You don't lose anybody. What ends up happening is we start to see that I can't step into going where it is I want to go or experiencing what it is I want to experience as a human being without you, essentially. So we don't lose anybody. We just finally come to the conclusion I'm out of emotional gas, and what it is I want to experience in my lifetime can't be had here. That's why relationships come to an end.

Okay, it's time for question number two. But just hopefully you realize we, as a family and a body of work and with tremendous input with people we've worked with, and now they're mentoring. So it's always being iterated. But I think the point I really want to emphasize here is this is a very strategic, incremental process, because you just can't do a couple hours of this, and you're good. And so there's been so much thought in all the thousands and thousands of private sessions that Stacy's done and all the I don't know how many hours of calls the three of us have done together with prior roadmaps. Where can we make some changes? Where are people getting hung up? Where is it not landing for people? So it's strategically released each day by day, and you just keep stacking on it and stacking on it, and your skill set and most importantly, ability to deploy and use these, become stronger by repetition.

That's really an example. As a change we were having, some people say that they didn't understand certain days, the activities were a little bit confusing. So now every single day has a video explaining the task and the sit your butt down and breathe moment from Stacy. There's a video at the top of the page for every day, so you'll hit play and you'll understand the day. So there's gonna. There's no chance that you'll be confused. And if you still are, you can message us, you can type it in the comments. You can ask a fellow roadmapper.

All right, question two, Brookie.

How does getting married and living together go to lying and pushing away to feel like a stranger now?

Okay, well, the short answer to that is because you don't understand the skills and principles that are needed in order to create a relationship that doesn't normally drift apart. I want you to understand that that is what's normal. If we do nothing right, if two people come together and fall in love and we don't know how to keep it good and we don't know how to work through the inevitable ups and downs of life, then we will find ourselves in a place where I am acting out. And essentially that's what's happening is the more and more frustrated become and the more and more disappointed I become from what we used to be, the more I act it out. And so over time that will just. Normally I use that word because it is normal. If I do nothing in a relationship to keep it thriving, then it's going to fall apart and we just don't learn how to keep it good so that we continuously reach back for each other. But I'll tell you something else. It's just like that. If we're just going to not pay attention to how to keep my body healthy and strong, well, then the natural default of that is breaking down. You won't maintain the ability that you might have today, five years from now. It's going to go through a natural progression of breakdown and the emotional nuances of relationship. Do that very same thing. I want to say it has nothing to do with how much I love you. I can care and love you a lot, but through the progress of that, that default option of breaking down, it's called entropy.

That's exactly right. I mean, this is a universal principle.

It's going to fall apart. That's why we are so passionate about understanding skills and principles that govern life and love. Because if you understand how they work and you practice them, then it's like really knowing how to take care of your body and keep yourself healthy. You know how to do that for your relationship. And that's what the roadmap's all about.

The next one is how do I get them to admit when they're wrong and apologize?

Well, so this takes us to one of the very first realizations that we need to understand. Everybody is coming at this from two very different perspectives. And the greatest analogy I have in a quick sense is we're all on the roadway and we all drive distracted. But when I do it, I know why it's happening. And when you do it, I feel like it's egregious. The same thing happens with things that I want you to apologize for. In egregious acts, the person who is doing them understands why they're doing them. Do you understand why they're doing them, because if we don't, then I'm going to consistently want them to compensate for those egregious acts when they're doing them for a very specific reason. And maybe they're trying to get a message through to me that I'm not picking up on. And I'm just now mad and upset and angry and don't want to understand anything that you have to say. Essentially, I'm feeling like this has been egregious, even though there are many places and spaces where I do the same thing. And so when you do it, it's egregious. And when I do it, I understand and feel like I deserve a hall pass. There was nothing I could do about this. And so that's a very important thing for us to understand. And the great news is we have a whole teaching about that. Right. And it will be something that will change your life.

The next one is, will I be the woman that he changes for?

I think we're looking at this backwards. Will you be the woman that at the end of your life, you feel good about? That's the question. Because a great life filled with all of its marvelous love stories is a life and a love story that you feel good about, regardless of how it went. So the question is, are you going to be the person he's going to change for? I don't know about that. But you can be the person that you change for, and you can have all the things that you adore and wish for and hope for and long for. I can tell you that the more you step into that person, the more he'll be inspired to change. But that doesn't mean you give him everything he wants. It means you're truly living the person that you want to be and become. And that might take some time to get in tune with or in touch with, but to contort yourself into something that you don't want to be, to keep him around. Okay, I'm going to tell you, that's no life to live. Been there, done that one. And there's no winners in that life.

Yeah. I think at the end of the day, really, what. And if you've listened to our podcast for any length of time, number one, if you have, thank you. Even if you're a new listener. Thank you. But really, all of our skills and frameworks is to help you become the best version of yourself that you can each day. Because really, that's the only thing any of us can truly control. So that's the whole reason why we created the Lease option, contract for love, which is you create one of those towards the end. Is that week four, ladies? I can't.

Yeah, it's week four.

But anyway, it's because when Stacy and I first came together, we didn't want to be together from obligation or a piece of paper. Like, how good can we create this? And really, I always say Stacy created that to keep me coming with my A game every day. I'm having a little fun. But that's true. I mean, so bring your A game every day. That's truly what we're after here.

Relationships are your greatest moment to co create something. And yet it is what happens in a relationship. We co create something, and if we want it to be good, then we need to be very intentional about that because otherwise we're going to run into that entropy we've already touched on.

But the thing that we've gotten wrong is that we think when we run into that, that we've done something wrong. The truth is, is that we've done nothing. You reach entropy when you do nothing, which is what most people do. Most couples just get together, get married, have kids, and then expect everything to stay good, but do nothing to make it good. Because that's how society works. It's not because you're doing something wrong or you're neglecting your relationship. It's just what has been modeled to you. But that's inevitable for every single couple. Because relationships require work to stay good. But the work is not like paperwork. It's learning skills and going on dates. But not just any date. You know, like, you need intention. It takes intention. It takes nurturing. You can't have a baby and then do nothing and expect it to be a good person. But for some reason we've been sold a lie. And then we all get disappointed when the inevitable thing happens to us and we think, oh, my God, we made such a mistake marrying each other. No, you just didn't take care of what you had. And most people don't.

Yep, most people don't know how. It's not anybody's fault, you know, but definitely we are committed to changing that. It's time we scale uphill, for sure. And by the way, the first week of the roadmap is all about reconnecting with yourself. It is all about learning how to understand, share, communicate. So how does that relate to getting them to profess that they're sorry? You'll never be successful there? Because there is a message between the two of you that is not being understood on either side. You Know, So one person can see it very, very much as egregious, and the other person can be thinking, man, I keep trying to tell you, you're just not listening, or I feel like I'm entitled to do this because of what you're doing. Those are the very common conversations that happen in that space. Yeah.

All right, next question.

Why won't my partner give our marriage another chance?

I don't know any history here, but here's how this commonly works out. We've either done it many times and we'll go rounds. Let's be honest, after we've separated and everybody has been hurt or disappointed, that reunification process is delightful. It's like, oh, my gosh, it's so great. What was I thinking? Come home, let's do this thing. And then as the days start to play out, we find ourselves doing the same old things that we know to do when our emotional backs get pressed against the wall. But the problem with that is I need to know what to do instead of what I used to do. And that's the part that gets missed. And so we just go through a whole nother cycle of ending up where we found ourselves again in space and separation. And it's amazing and how resilient the human heart is on this place. Because we can go through this cycle multiple times, right? And we do, and we will. And then there comes a point in time where we touched on it earlier. You just simply run out of emotional gas. You don't have it to put in anymore. Not because I don't love and care about you, but because I've exhausted myself and I don't have it in me anymore.

Well, as you say often in the roadmap, it's a capacity issue.

It's a capacity.

I mean, I ask people often on clarity calls, like, is it fair to say that whatever you drive for transportation, if you didn't put more fuel in it, is there an absolute certainty that it will stop? Oh, my gosh, Tom. All the time? Yes. Well, so it is for us humans as well. How we stop has some different varieties and colors and such, but none of us has an unlimited Runway emotionally, without some input. It's just as Brooke said. It's almost like we think that universal principles don't apply in relationship. That's a separate category of life. The good news is it's not. So that's why you hear us pounding all the time. This is a principal skill based journey, no different than any other place you've had success in your life. I always Say that's good news. And then the second part of that is it also requires a lot of you to have, whatever your version of it, a great relationship. It's very dependent on what you and your partner are willing to put in.

Yeah. The tricky part about it is that it's invisible, you know, that there's this nuance that we haven't been told about. We experience it, but it doesn't make any sense because there's nothing tangible or physical about it. But if we were to put this idea into a physical metaphor, how many times would you just run your car out of gas and then have to, you know, hike to the local gas station with gas tank? I mean, once is good. Okay, I. Okay, let's, let's do this twice as. Okay. This is starting to get ridiculous. Three times is like, what the hell? You know, I can't keep doing this. This is ridiculous. You know, and we go four or five or ten times. You're going to finally go, I'm not driving the car. I'm just not going to drive the car. I' going to touch the car because I can't do that anymore.

Good analogy.

Right. So if we put it into a physical metaphor like that, we can start to wrap our head around what's happening. It has nothing to do with love. It has nothing to do with you being a good person with good intentions. And it has nothing to do with how much you've contributed and put in or not. It has everything to do with the emotional experiences and nuances that each person is experiencing individually. And we're willing to run the car out of gas a few times. We are, because we get it. We're trying to co create here and do some things that I would really like to figure out how to do with you. But if I go 10 times, I'm going to eventually get to a place where I'm saying I can't do this anymore and be okay myself. So it's actually a cry for self preservation in this emotional nuance and really has nothing to do with you at that point in time. We'll talk a lot about that in the roadmap. This is a very common question that everybody's trying to wrap their head around. Just has a struggle understanding that. And everybody will say, yeah, but what about this one and what about that one? And how does it apply here? And okay, let's come back to the principle. Great question.

How do you get to be okay during a separation knowing it gives someone else a chance to get in?

We hear versions of this one often.

Okay, well, let's flip that on its end and let's look at this from a different perspective. Are you telling me that because you're together and living together that nobody else can get in? Because that's not true. Plenty of people get in when we're laying in bed together, sometimes even after we've just had sex. So the notion that somebody else is going to get in and penetrate your relationship because we have space is not true. Somebody else can come in at any point in time in our relationships. Not to freak our listeners out, but come on, let's be honest about this. It's easier to cheat now than it ever has before.

And we all have free will, last time I checked, you know, so.

Yep, yep. So we have to let go of that notion. So that tells me that you've been able to calm a lot of your fear and anxiety because they're physically in your space, and now you're going to need to learn how to calm yourself when they're not in your space, is what's being asked. And you're not really accomplishing what it is you thought you were accomplishing there. And I would say, how is it that I feel so good about myself and my life that I know they'll be missing out if they let somebody else in? That's a completely different question to reflect on and to focus on. And that whether they let somebody else in or not, I'm going to let somebody in who can truly love me. And I want to let that somebody in that I don't need to be worried about allowing someone else into our relationship, that I can trust them and I can trust myself. Now we got something.

Well, it's like we all want that proverbial guarantee, you know, and what Stacy shares often is the best guarantee that any of us, even if we've had something really egregious happen in our relationship, you know, how can I ever trust again? Or whatever we have to be. Have the confidence and the tools and the skills to be able to do that, you know, to be able to step in and risk again, even amongst some. We've been honored to walk people through some very intense, you know, situations.

Yeah. If my relationship life is predicated upon somebody being in it for me to be okay, that's a very dangerous place for me to put myself. I need to be able to have the experience of knowing somewhere within me I know that I can find the resourcing to be okay on my own. Because when I can be okay on my own, I won't have the need to control or beg or plead somebody else so that I'm okay. I'm learning how to be okay on my own. And I call that love insurance. Right? Because regardless of how this goes, because there are no guarantees, I know how to resource myself and be okay. Not to say that disappointment wouldn't happen, but I can resource that.

My fiance, Jack, is very wise, and he used to ask me that question, like, during our really intense fights in the beginning of a relationship. He would say, would you be okay if we broke up? And I would say, no. And he would say, I want you to say yes. And I would be like, I don't want to say yes, because I don't think I would. And he's like, well, I don't know if I can do this if you wouldn't, because I need you. And I didn't understand what he meant back then because I was so anxious and fragile, but I get it now. But I didn't real. I thought he was, like, manipulating me or, like, being mean, but, no, it was like, I want to know that you're a whole person and that, you know, you can really be here and be a teammate. You're not just here because I'm here.

Or it's easy or it's convenient or. Yeah, well. And it's a hard burden for everybody. It really is a difficult space and place. We've touched on that in the podcast episode. Because you're going to run yourself out of emotional gas. And the anxiety part of needing them to be around in order for me to be okay, and they're going to grow exhausted from the burden of having to carry that for you. So you can see it's inevitable that it's going to be a race to the bott, what I call that, you know?

So what's the next question, Bricky?

How do I give them space knowing that they have a hard time expressing their emotions and not to do too much to push them further away?

Well, you gave it away when you said expressing their emotions. That tells me that you're feeling like you're needing to figure out their emotions for them and help them make sense of it all, and that's what's going to push them further away. So the short answer is, you need to realize they don't need you to figure it out for them. They need you to figure out you for them and give them a safe place to do that on their own. That is a classic example of me dragging somebody over to the CrossFit. Gym and saying, watch me work out, look what I can do. And you're going to feel so much better. So you're probably overdoing. You're over functioning, you're overperforming in an effort to try and love and support your partner, which is a very sweet thing to do. But in order for us to create something different, you need to trust and know that your partner has the ability to figure out his emotions. The question I have is, does he want to? And you need to realize that you can't do it for him. That's something he needs to learn how to do on his own. So the more you push and the more you tell him how he thinks and how he feels, the more he's going to pull away. So we'll talk about that in the roadmap as well.

The next one is how do you decide if it's time for a divorce or keep fighting for my marriage?

There is a lot of conversation about that. In fact, that's what brings us all together, isn't it? We're all, if we're telling the truth, trying to decide if we're going to stay or go in this place, I call it the land of maybe. And there's only one person in the whole wide world that can make that choice and that decision, and that's you. But the question is, how do I make that choice? Well, that's the question you're asking, right? You need to be able to find that answer within yourself and you probably need skills and understanding in order to know when that answer is found, where and how to find that answer answer, because it commonly happens in that we have one more egregious act or one more blowout. And then I think that's my moment and I'm going to propose the idea to you that no, it's not. We want to be able to feel complete and we want to experience what I call a clunk. And that's going to require you to have the skill that you need in order to find that answer inside of yourself. And unfortunately, nobody can give it to you but you. And if they did, it wouldn't work anyway. You'd be angry and upset about that because you didn't find that answer inside of yourself. These big decisions, which this is one of need to be found within oneself. And the challenge is we often just don't know how to go find them.

No, I would just stack on that. And because we get asked this often. Look, none of, none of us, Stacy, Brooke, myself, we say, please tell me you know, that was a great question. My point here is we don't ever suggest when someone should end their relationship or their marriage. How could we? Number one, it's not for us, but what we want to have is be able to teach and mentor and help you develop the skills and confidence within yourself to know whether you should continue or not. People often say, Tom, Stacy, Brooke, how long should I wait? Should I go another round? You go as many rounds as you want, you know, so like Stacy said, then you have the clunk. Because regret, we know regret comes from especially in this question. One of the most important or maybe the most important question of our life is did I do everything I wanted to do to say yes or no, to continue or not? And if someone says they can facilitate a professional, I would say I wouldn't bank on that because that's the most important question that only us can decide. And then you won't have regret when you know, for whatever reason, if it didn't work out, that you gave it every opportunity to do so. And that is a process, the skill based journey with a tremendous amount of introspection and thought and care and concern in creating a very, very emotionally safe environment between you and your special someone to come to that understanding between you. That's significant. And we get asked this all the time, do we not, ladies?

May not be a consensus that me and my significant other come to together. It might be a knowing inside of my. That I've come to.

Well said. Yeah, yeah. I mean, how long should I wait? You wait as long as you. But we always say not to the place till you're waiting to where you're degrading, you're going down the other side. Well then there's no value there.

Yeah. We say wait as long as you need a. Not a second longer, you know?

Exactly.

Don't. Once you know, don't hang out in there. Once you know, then you act. And here's the last question. Why do I love this person so much after everything she has put me through, through the pain alone is killing me.

Yeah. There can be a multifaceted answer to this one given your specific circumstances and personal experience. But where it commonly comes from is I have a belief that I'm not going to be okay without her. Number two, I'm in love with the idea of being in love with you and I have all of these incredible moments and memories of you that I don't want to let go of. It could come from religious and cultural beliefs as well. I've got to make this work. That's because it's a reflection of me, my identity, my belief, my sense of significance in my own life. And then there's this idea, and this will be the last one I'll mention here. There's this idea that if I can just get you to love me again, then I'll be whole. I'll be okay. And so it becomes this desperate race to enroll you in the idea of how incredible I am so that I can believe it for myself. So there are many things that are going to be going on here, but when we find ourselves in a space and a place where I can see that this isn't good for me, but I can't let go, well, then that just tells me there's something that you've learned in order to be in a space you can let go. Because often we'll be stuck to it until I can get that sense of understanding and learning for myself. I want you to know that if these questions sound like yours are not allowed, they are important and you deserve to have them answered. I also want you to know that every single person in our roadmap community has asked these same questions in a variety of ways, but it all boils down to the same fears, questions, lack of understanding, et cetera. And that's why we do this work. We do this work together because you can't regulate yourself in isolation. You can't learn skills about relationships on your own. You need other people to engage with and to interact with in order to practice, which is often the very most important part. I see us all walking around like intelligent heads that can't apply what it is we're learning. So that practice becomes the most important part. You also are going to need structure and support. So you got clarity today. I hope on what's really happening, that it's not about saying the perfect thing. It's about learning to stay steady while things feel very uncertain. And the roadmap is where we practice these things that we've talked about with you every single day. Daily reps for calm when you're feeling upset. Timing cues that you're going to get so that you know when to reach out and when to wait. Live coaching calls so that you're not just guessing and instead feeling good about the responses and actions that you're taking. And a community that helps you when you start to spiral. You've already proven that you care. You've listened, taken notes, replayed episodes, done the work. The next step is to practice with support. Because the time that we Put in doesn't fix what silence breaks. Actually, skills do. So the roadmap, as one roadmapper said to me, she still hasn't come home yet, but I finally have come home to myself. He went on to say that for the first time in months, he could breathe again. He stopped waking up every morning, panicking and waiting for a test. Instead, he started rebuilding his own sense of safety from the inside out. That's what this work is about. Not forcing an outcome, but learning how to come back home to you. Because when you do, everything else starts to shift. It's almost like this place of space is the inevitable lesson of, hey, you've lost yourself. You need to come home so that we can reconnect once again with others. If you've been spinning for weeks waiting for their next move, you already know this. Pain doesn't fade with time. Time doesn't heal. Dysregulation skills do. In your first 48 hours inside the Love and Limbo roadmap, you're going to feel more grounded inside of yourself than you've probably felt in a very long time. We've guided hundreds through this same storm. And participants don't just survive this time of uncertainty. They instead grow through it. They reconnect with clarity and strength that they didn't know they even had. The program is $397, or three payments of $139. Working privately with me, by the way, starts at $200 an hour. So this provides you with 30 days of personalized tools, six live calls, and real daily support for less than what two sessions would cost you if we were to work privately together. This is our final live round of 2025. We start October 19th, and enrollment closes October 23rd. So if you felt even one deep breath of relief in this episode, let that be your cue. Don't wait for a miracle that ends in another fight, another silent day, another sleepless night. Instead, I invite you to come join us and build the calm. And know how that will change everything. Let's have a little fun. And of course, we're going to stay with our sit your butt down breathing conversation. One, because it's so important. But two, we can have a little fun with it, too. All right, what I'm going to do is invite you to breathe like a badass. I'm going to invite you to begin the practice of sit your butt down and breathe. This is confidence and proof that strength is not weakness. Because the reality is, anyone can send a reactive text. I mean, come on, how Hard is that. But a real badass. You know what they do? They pause, they breathe, they regulate, and they then make intentional decisions for their next steps. So I want you to snap a picture of your breathing spot, regardless of where it is, and maybe put it as your screensaver on your phone, reminding you to sit your butt down and breathe, because that's how you build the badass that you are.

And just so you know, that can be your yoga mat, you know, doesn't have to be sitting on top of a mountain. Imagine yourself, you know, your office desk, you know, I mean, but have some fun with this. But wherever works for you is where it's going to be most important and most valid. You know, we don't want to have this audacious place that we think it should be. Again, don't answer these. Don't go through any of these exercises. And even through the roadmap, we say, don't answer how you think your special someone wants you to answer. That's not. We got to move away from that, right? This is all about you and coming home to yourself.

I remember a roadmap participant saying that their place in space was the bathroom, because that was the only place where they could go and be isolated and had a great excuse to be there and nobody thought anything of it. You're not leaving giving me. I know what you're doing in there. Well, you know, we can accumulate that same mindset when you take time for yourself, you know, it's okay. We're okay. It's okay. In fact, please do, right, because everybody's going to be able to show up better together when we are together. So bathroom is not a bad picture to put on your phone, as crazy as that is. Your friends might think you're a little wonky, but that's okay. Why you got a picture of your toilet on your phone? That's a long story.

Sorry.

Yeah, I listen to this podcast, you know, and if you want to post it, feel free. You can hashtag it with Breathe like a badass. I think it could catch on you guys.

I like that. That's a nice job, honey. Breathe, Breathe like a badass.

Your ability to begin building emotional strength and resiliency is totally badass. So I'm going to start a whole movement.

I think I like it.

Yeah, I like it. Our song for today is one that I personally used in my life when I needed to remember that I am a good person. I am not broken. I'm going to be okay. And it's India's. I AM Light because it reminds us that there is a light in me that deserves to be nurtured. It's going to be okay. I'm going to figure this out. I'm going to get through this. So I used to put this song on repeat and play it over and over and over again to the demise of my children. Mom, change the song. They had no idea why I was doing it, but now y' all do. This is your soul level reminder that you are not your pain or your mistakes, that you are so much more than that. You can listen to this week's song along with our entire Relationship playlist by going to our website podcast page or search it up on our Spotify playlist. Yep, we really have one It's Love Shack Live playlist. Before you go, take one more breath with me. Place your hand on your heart and feel your heart beating and feel the pressure and the weight of your hand on your chest. You're not losing love, you're learning how to stay steady. That's the work we'll do together inside of the Roadmap. I so look forward to seeing you there and thank you so much for being here with me inside the Love Shack today. This conversation is important and if it's moved you, please help us spread the word and share it with others who may be going through this very same difficult space. So from heart to heart, human to human, this is how our podcast grows. And remember, love isn't built by avoiding the hard stuff. It's built by learning how to move through it with better skills and principles that are life giving. Bye bye for now.

All right, it's time to leave the Love Shack, but before we part ways, we want you to know our door is always open and we'll leave the porch light on. Ready to welcome you back whenever you need a dose of relationship wisdom. For more resources and tools, Visit us at loveshacklive.com to dive deeper into the topics we've explored and find additional support for your relationship journey. Stay connected by subscribing to our podcast. Thank you for being part of our Love Shack Live community.

Sam.