#246: When They Ask for Space: The Skills That Keep You Connected

Have you ever sat across from someone that you love and adore and realized you've both stopped really sharing, like, personal details and desires? You still share a home and maybe even a bed, but everything feels like it's happening on the surface and at a distance. You tell yourself it's just a phase. We're going to get through this. But this phase has been happening for a while now. And deep down, you know the gap is growing. Here's the truth no one likes to say out loud. Space doesn't just happen when somebody moves out. It starts long before that moment, in small moments when the sharing starts to stop, the touching starts to stop because you no longer sense your words will land safely on the ears of your partner. And that's how the gaps began to grow. The fighting ensues because the gap of understanding between us becomes wider and wider. It's not knowing how to reach out for each other anymore. It's space with no sharing, no intimacy, no real something that binds the two of us. I'm Stacy Bartley, a relationship mentor and a co host of Love Shack Live. Each week, my husband Tom and I and our daughter Brooke help people at this exact crossroads, the place between holding on and letting go, learn the real skills and principles. And love and relationships is what we do here. Because love isn't luck. It's learned. And more importantly, practice, practiced. And if you're willing to do these things, connection can be rebuilt even after the hardest of seasons in our relationships. Today we're diving into the real questions you've sent us through the surviving space Self assessment. It's a quiz that we have to help you be reflective in regards to your own life and relationships. These are questions that people all around the world are asking right now about this topic. Questions like how much space is too much? Why do they say they'll change but never do? How do I talk about what I Without pushing them further away, we're answering them all today. And along the way, we'll show you what it really takes to study yourself so that you can stop guessing, stop chasing, and start reconnecting. Because space isn't the enemy. Disconnection is. And you can rebuild connection. That's the good news, if you know where and how to begin.

Hey, thank you for coming. Welcome to the Love Shack.

We've received an incredible number of questions from people who have taken this survey and we didn't want to leave anyone hanging. So these questions, like I said, come straight from the people in the middle of limbo. They're unsure of what to do next, Trying to communicate without making things worse and wondering what healing even looks like. So today we're dedicating this episode to you, the brave, courageous people, the who decided to dive in and take the quiz so that they could finally start to see and understand themselves just a little more clearly. The real raw questions that deserve real answers. But before we jump in, I just want to say a quick note. Our live round of the love and limbo 30 day roadmap is officially closed. But if you missed it, you're not out of luck. We've opened a self paced version that lets you start anytime and move at your own pace and rhythm with four Monday night better Love Club calls that are live with me so you can still achieve that life support while you work through the daily activities for learning and practice. We'll share more about this at the end, but for now let's dive into your questions.

All right.

The first question is what is a healthy amount of space within the same house, like hours, a day, per week, etc.

So there's no definitive time when it comes to space and time that we need in order to regroup. So what's happening here is we're taking the space so that ideally I can recalibrate an understanding and a sense of self within me. Because what happens in our relationships is we get lost from that knowing we've done things for our partners because that's what we're told we're supposed to do. If I make you happy, then I, I'm going to be happy and we're going to be happy and our life is going to be so great. And you play that game for a while and you find that you're losing yourself. You find that you're over giving, overextending, going along with things that in the end really don't work for you or required to keep and carry things emotionally that don't really belong to you. And I run out of gas. I run out of what I call emotional capacity. And so the space is me just needing to decompress, to recenter, to step out of the conflict and the chaos long enough for me to find kind of where I'm at on the map of our life.

Is there anything that you should that you would offer for, let's say a couple's navigating space and separation and staying in the same house versus when one of the partners leaves the house?

Yeah.

Question. The person who asked this question, they're doing it in the same house.

I totally understand that. And an in House separation requires actually more ability to declare when it is I need to take some time to myself. It's not going to just come by proxy of the proximity in our spatial relationship. Now we're still in the house and it's okay and appropriate for you to say, I just need some time and space tonight. So you honestly, I can't give you that, that, that amount of time. You need to give yourself that amount of time. And it's going to be determined on how are you feeling and experiencing today. So it's not even like we can put a declaration on it other than I notice that when I come home from work, it takes me about 30 to 60 minutes to just decompress before I can engage in any other logistic of crossing paths or engaging with my partner. So I encourage you to look at those places and spaces like what is it you need in your daily interactions with this person? Do we want to take care of the kids and then take some time in the evening? Do we want to go to work and come home and have some time to decompress before I have to engage and have conversations around logistics with you? And then when are those moments where we sit down and we connect, we, we explore, we have conversations about how we're doing and how your day was and what's coming up for you. All of that is a conversation that needs to be had and each person needs to tell the truth about what they really need and what really would work for them so that they can show up in the best way possible.

Is it possible to go no contact if you're sharing the same physical space.

It'S difficult because usually while you are sharing the same space, there's lots of things that you have to work on together, like taking out the trash, cleaning the bathroom, fixing mills, you know, walking the dog, the pet, or taking care of the kids. That's usually why we're doing an in home, so that we don't have to disrupt those natural flows there. If that's not the case, then that's a separate situation. But that's usually why we do in home separations.

Also.

I just wanted to point out that when usually in space and separation, there's one person who's requested space and the other person is being requested to give space. It takes a lot of resilience and emotional weightlifting to not get offended when your partner says, especially in an in home situation, I don't want to talk to you anymore. I need space now and then. You have to respect it without crashing out or crying. Or going up to them and saying, well, I feel really insecure that you need space from me.

In some ways it's easier to do in home separation because like mom 2 said, you can still do the chores and stuff, but in other ways it's harder because you still have access to them. So you have to build yourself up and give that space. Even though they're still in the next room or right next to you on the couch. You know, there's a lot of opportunities for messing it up or getting really emotional or needing constant reassurance that will then make you have to start over again and take space again.

I would say in home is the most challenging just because you still have all these same old triggers and like you said, access to your partner. It requires a lot of, like you said, emotional skill and resiliency, the ability to regulate myself. And that's really hard because everybody's very sensitive at this point in time. So what I'll say about that though is remember why we're doing space. That's the thing that you're going to have to reach for. Remember why space is happening. Why? I'm going to reiterate this. We need to refuel our emotional capacity with ourselves. And so if you're all up in it and we have that same fight again and again and again and we're going round and round and round, all that's happening is I'm depleting a sense of emotional well being. So me being able to say I can't have this conversation right now needs to be honored because that's the next best thing I can do outside of us going another round of hashing this thing that we can't seem to get over. Remember, I need to find where I'm at on the map first before we can decide where we're going together. Second, and if I'm not given that time, well then it's just going to be a game over. I'm going to become more and more resistant to engaging with you because I need that for a sense of well being with inside of myself. And so I'm going to end up pushing you away instead of giving us the chance to just take a breath. Remember, in breathing and relationships are a breathing entity. I need to learn how to inhale and exhale. It's really important that I do. I can't buy into the idea that it's going to be one way or the other. Yes, we want to have our interactions be productive and intentional and we also need to take time right now to Rest. That's why we're in a place of space and separation. I hope that helps you.

Yes.

The next question is, why do people say things in space and separation but almost never follow through?

We say a lot of things when we're in intense moments of panic, don't we? I mean, just put yourself in that situation for a minute where something's going down and I'm in an intense state of emotion, right? We'll profess to go back to church. I'll profess to lose £50. I'll promise to have sex with you every night until the cows come home. You know, I'll profess some things because I desperately just want this moment to pass because I'm really uncomfortable. I'm really in a lot of shock or panic or discomfort and will promise all kinds of things. And then as the moment passes and I realize I'm okay, the willingness to do those hard things, those challenging things for me start to wane again. Because all of them are going to require effort and intention and practice and consistency, aren't they? Every single one of those things. I just said, I'll go back to church, I'll have sex, I'll do better. I'll never say that again. I'll never go there again. All of it is going to take an awareness and an intention, an effort. And so when push comes to shove, all of a sudden I'm not as motivated as I was in that intense moment to do the thing I said I was going to do. Remember, emotion is what puts motion in our behavior. And when the emotion flatlines, I'm not as motivated as I was in that intense emotional moment. So nine times out of 10, we end up not actually following through.

You mentioned that emotions inspire us to do some things that we never would normally do without these painful things happening. But what do you do if you are in space and separation and either partner isn't following through with the thing that you know is going to make the change that you need to stay or to go. What do you do if that never happens? What do you do if the follow through never arrives?

Well, often how we approach the conversation of the follow through is from a place of attack. Like, if you're not following through, the emotion is going to spin me up and now I'm ticked off and I'm going to go, why the hell won't you follow through? What is wrong with you? How many times do we have to talk about this? How many times do we have to go down this path? And I swear to you if you don't start following through, I'm out of here. That's usually how we approach the conversation. What we don't realize is there's something of understanding that we're missing. There's a reason why they're not following through. You don't know what it is, but you don't ever think to ask them what it is either. And then that same conversation can turn from a punitive experience into a place where we're pursuing the understanding of why it's so challenging for you to follow through. And I just might learn something about my partner if I will open that question up. Like, help me understand why this is so hard for you to follow through. I'm frustrated about your inability to follow through. Can you help me understand why this is so tough for you?

So I think in the scenario that you just described, a lot of times it's the woman. I mean, we're not huge stereotype people. But in that very specific scenario you just described, I imagine a woman yelling at her male partner for saying, you know, why this thing is frustrating me? Why do you keep doing it or not doing it? That seems more female type communication. But what I think it can be.

I just want to clarify here, not to challenge you, but this plays out equally, both sides, male and female.

I just feel like a lot of, like, generally women are a lot more comfortable expressing their emotions, especially in relationships, and talking about their feelings like it's easier for them to access them just because of the way society is. So what I'm the reason I'm asking this. I think a lot of people who are very good at connecting with their emotions, maybe not sharing them, but at least identifying them, they can't understand when someone can't. So you could say to them, you know, this thing frustrates me. You know that your lack of communication around this issue or your lack of follow through around this issue is really frustrating to me. Why do you keep doing this? And I feel like their genuine answer could be, I don't know.

I don't know.

Because they literally don't. But I think a lot of times when people are met with the answer I don't know, they think that the person saying I don't know is lying because it would be impossible for them not to know.

Well, let's be honest. I mean, we do say I don't know. When I feel awkward or uncomfortable about saying something that's going to absolutely upset you, I know the answer. But there's not a safe place for me to Share it. I can say I don't know, but I can also honestly say I don't know. And it's so much better when you put something on the end of I don't know. I don't know what you're looking for. I don't know how to say it. I don't know how to do the thing you're asking. I don't know if I can. I don't know if that's going to work for me. If we could just put something on the end of I don't know instead of just leave it nebulous, we could actually have a conversation about it that would progress into a new place of curiosity and exploration. But just to say I don't know just leaves it hanging there. And then I guarantee you the person that is hearing I don't know is just going to go ahead and insert what they think the truth is anyway. And it's usually going to be a version of, oh, you don't know because you don't care, because you don't care about me, because you don't care about this relationship, because you don't give a shit, because you just want to do what you want to do anyway. Like, those are the common narratives that we go to when somebody says I don't know. So that's why it's so important to put something, whatever you can conjure up this truthful for you on the end of that. Because then it takes us to the next step in the conversation. And the person who's making things up in their heads kind of more often than not their worst nightmare has something to go on that's outside of, it's my fault, you know, I'm not good enough, I'm not doing it right. You don't care. It kind of just helps grease the conversation a little bit.

Follow through is an interesting thing. It's the thing that pisses us off the most. It turns into a huge trigger. But what we don't often think about talking or exploring around the lack of follow through is what the person is struggling with to such a degree that the follow through isn't happening. Like, that's the conversation we need to have. And if a person isn't willing to have that conversation, well, then now you've got somebody who's just stuck in their own perpetual defensiveness to their own demise. And. And you'll have to make choices from there about how you want to dance with that. But if we're genuinely giving people opportunities to explore why it is you're having a difficult time following through naturally as a human being. I want to be able to talk about and explore that with you, but it's got to be exceptionally safe to do so.

I was just going to say that sometimes the reason for no follow through could literally be because there's not enough emotional safety for them to do the thing you're asking them to follow through.

On or to explore why it is. I struggle with this. Yeah. So I make up a story instead, which is a form of defensiveness that I don't even understand and know because I don't have a safe place to explore it. I've said this a few times in this episode. It seems to be the theme I'm going to remind us all. When I talk, I understand myself. When I listen, I understand someone else. And in the case of us talking about follow through, I won't be able to uncover what my wrestle is in my lack of follow through unless I have a safe place to share it with you. It will just continuously become this defensive place and space I go to as I weave a story to justify why I didn't follow through today. But if I had a safe place to actually talk through it, I might be able to uncover some nuggets for myself as to why it is I'm struggling with this piece of follow through or procrastinating or a whole host of other things. But I won't even be able to go there if all that's going to happen is you continue to criticize and belittle me for not being able to follow through. I know that. What I don't know is why it is I'm doing it. And so that. That's usually where the conflict comes.

Yeah, that's really powerful there. And just to unpack that a little bit more. I mean, think about it. Most of the time when we aren't following through, there's something inside of us that we're withholding. And someone, a very curious, you know, partner that adds to the emotional safety of the situation can be very helpful in helping us unpack that by asking us genuine, curious questions. But we don't encounter that very often. Most of us don't. And that's really what we're good at. Good coaches help us uncover our own best answers by this curious questioning process. That's the Socratic way of doing things. Right. That's very, very powerful. But there aren't too many times are we going to have experience in that Unless you scale up, it doesn't happen naturally.

Yeah. You know I'm even thinking about a for real experience in our own relationship where I'm sitting on not one, not two, not three, but four workbooks that are in some variety version of being almost complete. Like, if I would just sit down and spend a couple of hours, I would have one done, and then the other three are in various stages, completion. So I've put a lot of intense work and effort and thought into these workbooks, and then, God help me, I cannot follow through with getting them done. And I can only imagine Brooke and Babe, you're like, what the hell? What the hell is going on with these workbooks? We've only been talking about them for, I don't know, nine months, dare I say a year maybe.

I actually have to say we've called this episode to have an intervention with.

You, and we would like to be.

And it's gonna go. It's going public, and now we want.

To know why you can't follow through. Right. Just kidding. What the heck is going on here? But it's real. And so thank goodness I don't have the two of them saying, so what about the workbooks? When you get to the work. But what the hell is wrong with you? You know, you've been telling us that you're going to have these done forever, because the more that that would happen, the more shut down I would get about it. And I just want us to all kind of like put ourselves in that human moment for a second. It's like the more you feel pressured, the more you feel like, make up a really good story as to why you're delaying. But it's really not the truth of what's going on. It won't be until somebody genuinely says, and you're really good at this, Babe. Hey, honey, what's going on about the workbooks? Like what. What's your experience when you sit down to work on them? And. And what. What's the resistance about? And we can talk about it and poke around at it so that I can discover some things for myself as to why I'm so resistant about these workbooks. I get it. So, so, and then, and then the conversation. And this is, this is key because of what we just talked about. Where do I go find the emotion to help me get it done? Yeah. What gets me excited? You know, what. What is going to be the thing that's going to help me acquire the emotion to get them done? Sometimes it's just pre selling them. Well.

And I, you know, to you, listener, I mean, it's not as If Stacy doesn't write, like, constantly. I mean, all this woman is when she's not working with our clients or in facilitating our small groups, she's writing on her computer. So it's not like that's not. Writing is not happening.

So that's my first writing on those.

I mean, so there's a lot of writing going on. So I just say, babe, is there anything I can help you with? Could we restructure some things? I mean, look, I mean, because here's the thing. None of us can kick our own fannies any better than we do already, so that's not the way. I know I say that, but think about it. I mean, no one knows. Like, we know, of course. I mean, I've got files on my desk I'm supposed to have scanned months ago, so I don't have a pile almost as high as my computer. Well, for some reason, they're not getting done. So I. I say, honey, what's with the papers around my desk? I mean, so, you know, I would.

Like to point out to our longtime listeners who I know have listened to every episode that. Doesn't this sound very familiar of my episode about getting the website?

Yeah, you know, it's like.

It's the same exact story. So I know my parents could probably. Could have been like, we're gonna get someone else to do the website, because I know they can get it done quicker. You know, I just think of how violated that would have made me feel about all this work I put into this website. Same thing for mom, too. If I was like, well, mom, too. I'm just gonna take the workbooks and I'm gonna finish them, because you're taking forever. I don't have time to do that. So that wouldn't even be an option. But, you know, that's what some people do, because this whole conversation has had me thinking. We dishonor our relationships so often by viewing our partner with all of our own thoughts and feelings, you know? So we're looking at our partner saying, why the fuck can't you do this? It would take me two seconds to follow through on this. Well, that's not respecting your partner's personal movie or all the things that they struggle with or the things that are hardest to them because it's. That isn't easy for them for whatever reason. But by you saying, well, you're an idiot, because I could do it in two seconds, that's. We do that so often in life, to our employees, to our friends, to our family members, to ourselves.

Yes, to ourselves. If I start kicking my own fanny about not having the workbook still hanging over my head. Yeah. And the silliness of starting another one when I haven't completed the first, which is very unlike me. Like, I am a completer. I am. I like to complete the tasks. It gives me a thrill. Somehow I've gotten myself into this context where I have these, all these workbooks open and all of them. It's some path of progression. And maybe some of it is. I feel overwhelmed with some of these other things that have kind of taken precedence. And now I feel like I can't complete them because I have so many of them open. Right. Like, I don't know which one to do and I don't know where to go. And I can't remember where I was because I have so many of them in motion at the same time that then I just shut down. And when I shut down, if somebody were to say, gosh, get it together, I can't believe you haven't done this yet. I mean, nobody's going to be able to. That's going to. That's going to intensify my own kick, my own fanny. And if I come from deep seated experiences or patterns of doing that, either from my family of origin or places and spaces of coping within myself, can you imagine then the rabbit hole that I go down when you are telling me, how can I help you do this? And I'm going, don't talk about it because it makes me feel less than it makes me feel terrible. I'm carrying a lot of shame and guilt about this. You can start to see where we would be then tempted to weave a great story to offset that experience so that I don't live there, just to help me cope, just to help me kind of move on and do accomplish the things that I need to do. Ultimately, that's the sweetheart message of trying to apply pressure to somebody that we so much want them to follow through or do good things, things or get help or come closer. We want to pressure them. I just want you to see that's our attempt in creating emotion that will create motion in the desired direction that we want to go in. But that pressure, you know, and that emotion that we're creating often can backfire and send it in the other direction instead of it pushing them forward, actually shutting them down. And so that's why it's so important for us to gain the understanding from the person who's struggling with it, not beat them up and try and create that forward momentum. But to instead step in and say, hey, I want to help you and I understand what this is about for you. So you need to come up with that answer. Not me. The outside person who's all frustrated, the person who's struggling with the follow through needs to be the person who comes up with that answer. And then together we can brainstorm things that will create that internal motivation emotionally that will help me take progressive steps to accomplish it. So I just want you to all know I'm going to get them done. I will. I'm just not sure when.

I've got to set up events where it has to be an inevitable thing and then it's amazing, you know, I'll absolutely do it. So we're going to pre sell one here the first of the year just so that Stacy can complete the workbooks and maybe that'll be a fun social media campaign, you know, help Stacy finish the workbook, you know, buy one.

That's right now we're on the hook, man, right now that have invested into us. Yeah, that's important to follow through on that.

The next one is how do I talk with her about my desires without pushing her away?

This is a great one. Ask a question. I have some desires that I would like to share with you and I don't want to push you away. Are you in a place where I could actually share them with you? And if at any point in time as I'm sharing them with you, it makes you uncomfortable, will you just let me know? So it's all going to be on the setup if I just launch into this desired. It's commonly taken as though I'm doing this wrong. I'm doing this wrong, I'm doing this wrong. Instead of me just setting it up and owning the fact that these are my desires and I want to share them with you and I don't want to push you away. So let me know if you're in a place that you can actually hear me and then if at any point in time you become uncomfortable with it, just let me know because these are my desires, not places and spaces where you're not doing enough or doing it wrong.

And how would the roadmap help with that?

The roadmap helps because we focus an entire week in the 30 day roadmap on how to set things up for a win in our communication, just like I encouraged you to do right there. That's actually a framework or the beginning of a framework that we teach in the roadmap. When it comes to communication, what we know Best is just to blurt it out. And that's not a good way to approach communication, because I'm usually reacting in emotion, because, remember, emotion puts motion in my behavior. So I end up saying a whole bunch of things without thinking through what it is I'm saying first, that's a skill. And then knowing how to stack it so that it can be heard, and that not only can it be heard, but I can put a toe in the water to explore what's available in our communication is huge. It makes a huge difference, especially in these heightened states of sensitivity during space and separation. It's important that we become very slow, very intentional, and skilled at how I set up my communication with you because ultimately we need it to go really well.

The next question is, how do I express my feelings, but in a positive.

Way.

Especially when you're hurt?

Well, so the positive way, honestly, would be not spinning it into something that isn't true, but actually taking ownership of it and making sure that that's exceptionally clear in the communication because that creates the positive reassurance to the person you're sharing with that it doesn't have anything to do with them, that I'm just expressing my feelings. So that's how you would do it, in a positive way, Especially if perhaps they were negative or fearful emotions that you were kind of grappling with. Again, it's the theme of the podcast. Expression helps me understand myself. So it's amazing how we'll start to express emotions or fears or insecurities or desires, and we'll project it onto the person instead of making it clear that I'm talking about me. Leah, you make me feel this way. You bring this up in me every time you do that. Then I go here and I need to just eliminate all of that preamble stuff and just say, I notice what's coming up for me. I have some things that I'm experiencing that I would like to share with you. Is it a good time to do so own the feelings, and that's the most positive way that you can express them.

And then, if I heard you correctly, then open it up for exploration by that invitation that you add to the end after you've owned the feeling. Correct. Meaning, here's what's coming up for me that I would like to explore with you.

Correct.

Right. See, so you're sharing what's happening, and you're also inviting versus condemning or blaming. That's a massive distinction and important difference.

So that's the positive way to do it. Simply take ownership of Your thoughts. My principle in the practice that I'll share with you here is if I'm the one feeling it, then it's a message for me. It belongs to me, regardless of how I arrived there. And if I speak about it from that place in space, that's the most positive way I can share, you know, sometimes challenging thoughts and feelings with another human being. I own them. They're mine. It's on me to remedy them.

The next one is, how do I keep taking steps forward when life seems like it's turning upside down?

You pursue the want. It's important that you pursue the path of where you want to go instead of get mired in the don't want that we constantly are living in. So it's. It's this elusive thing that we have as a human being. It's like the more I have a struggle, the more challenging things happen to me, the more I want to stay there by talking about it or trying to figure out who's to blame or whose fault it is or how I could have prevented it or why it's not okay. And I want you to see that in that conversation, the only thing that we're talking about is the don't want or the unwanted experience that I consistently am having. And the only way I can get out of that and pursue in a forward motion when things are completely upside down is to stop and think about, okay, all these unwanted circumstances are showing me where it is I want to go or what it is I want to pursue or experience instead, what is it? And then once I can identify those, I want to talk about the want. I want to incessantly brainstorm and imagine how we're going to handle, get over, get through, recreate, explore something new and different. Even if it's, won't it be great when this happens? Won't it be great when this passes? Won't it be lovely when we've got this handled? Because I'm still talking about the want, which helps us as human beings feel just a little teeny, tiny bit better. It also helps us track a progress that we feel like we're moving in a better direction. So counter to popular belief, the more I talk about the don't want, the shittier I feel. The more frustrated I am, the more buried I am emotionally. I'm feeding it. And tomorrow feels just like today, right? And. And again and again and again as I kind of build that experience within me. And we can all do it. We all do it.

What if the thing you want is your partner? To come home and you know, that they're not ready to, or maybe they're not going to. You know, like, you can't really pursue that want if that's not available to you. So how do you, I guess, reframe your want or change? You know what I mean?

You want your partner to come home. So what are the things that you need to learn and understand for yourself to make that happen? That's what I want you to focus on. That's the wand. But what are the incremental steps that need to happen in order for that to happen? I probably need to learn how to do a little expression of my thoughts and feelings. I probably need to understand some experiences that we've had together that don't make any sense to me or hurt my feelings. I need some skills to do that. I need to remember and understand what it feels like for me to understand myself, to make choices and decisions and that I count and that I matter. Those are the things that we want that are going to help that happen. So we have to just break it down a little more. And because we, as human beings. I just rattled off a whole bunch of things, but it's because I spend my life in this place, the average human being. When we say, what do you want? Most of us go, I don't know. But I can tell you what I don't want. I can tell you what's not working right now, what I'm pissed off about, because we don't spend any time thinking about it. And so the only reason why I can rattle that off is because I do it for myself. But I also have the privilege and honor of helping hundreds of people, you know, navigate that want for themselves. And of course, it starts with the big one. I want them to come home. Yeah. But there's all kinds of little things that we need to pursue that we actually want to get there. Right? So we have to break it down even more. And we just. We don't have the practice and the understanding and how to do that. We barely have the idea of want. Like, what are you talking about? Didn't you just hear how shitty life is right now? How could you even talk about such a thing? Because it's important. It's super important.

All right, and the last question. It's a real zinger. And we off. We often get a lot of pushback and how we talk about this, but I thought it was important to include, can a relationship survive even after infidelity?

100%. 100%. Infidelity is either A breakup call or a wake up call. It happens for those two primary reasons. I want it to end and I don't know how to say so and I don't want to hurt you. So I'm going to act out, do it in secret instead. Hope that you find out or there's a whole bunch of things that are not working for me in this relationship. I really love you, I really care about you and I don't know how to have those conversations. So I'm just going to go and cope over here in this infidelity. And that would be an example of a wake up call. A wake up call is the place and spaces where a relationship absolutely can survive and thrive. It's very similar to what we were talking about in the follow through. We've got to understand what it is that wasn't working. Like those conversations that we've probably not been able to have in our relationship have to be had in the pursuit of understanding why the infidelity was the choice. And when we understand why infidelity was the choice for the person, it creates a whole layer of understanding in the relationship about all kinds of things that didn't work and all kinds of things that we need to scale up and understand from new perspectives. And ironically, when we get through something like that as a couple, our relationship is actually more bonded and intimate. It's kind of the idea like, damn, look what we just did. If we can come through this, we can do anything. So it creates a sense of resiliency in the relationship. Yeah, on the backside. So yes, absolutely. Survive and thrive even more so. It often opens up and kicks off all the doors open on all kinds of vulnerability and intimate spaces. We arrive at this place in our relationship where, well, what the hell, I better rip the band aid off. I've been caught. So let's start telling the truth. If not now, when? And it's going to be over anyway. So it creates that motivation emotionally to dive into the deeper conversations that we didn't know how to have or we were too afraid to have, or both.

Do you think that it's possible to heal from that just on your own?

Here's. And I know that was I jumped the gun there. And. And it's really not that I'm trying to promote my services, but I am. But that's not the motivator. The reality is this, if you knew how to have these conversations, you would do it far before infidelity happened. Like, that's at the end of a long chain of behaviors and experiences. And moments that took the relationship to this place. It's not really anybody's fault. It was a choice of coping and I chose that as my outlet. Like we do stopping at the bar and getting a drink or, you know, shopping and splurging on the Internet every day. And I've got more Amazon packages arriving at my door daily because I'm coping with a whole bunch of things I don't know how to talk about or deal with. It's the same. Okay? And yes, we can have judgment about, well, gosh, why didn't you choose a better one? Well, that's the age old question for all of us to answer, isn't it? Why am I still sitting on these damn workbooks? You know, why is it that I do some of the things I've done in my life and that was my choice? In the moment, we all can hold ourselves responsible for those choices and decisions and it only will be when we make those choices and decisions that we can look back and go, yeah, I can see there was probably a better way.

So would you, would you say, in working with people that have chosen to come to you for support and working through this, is it fair to say that when someone steps over the lines metaphorically and chooses to cope in, in a way that we know is not necessarily the most effective with infidelity, he or she is aware ultimately what they're choosing to do, meaning they know there's going to be ramifications.

I justify it, it'll be okay because, you know, I'm entitled to do this because, you know it's not going to be any big deal. I can control it, I can manage it. Most infidelity, especially from places like this as a wake up call, happen by what we would call circumstantially, like it's not an intentional pursuit, but that all of a sudden I find myself in this moment where I have this opportunity and in that moment I just choose to go places that maybe I shouldn't. Making it up, that I'm going to be okay, that I've got a handle on it, that I'll be able to handle it. That's more common than somebody who just egregiously goes out and has an affair on their person. You know, it usually happens little by little and all of a sudden I start getting attention that I'm not getting at home and it feels pretty good and you seem to be pretty interested and at home I feel like a failure and that I can't do anything right. Although I love my partner. And this person's reminding me how incredible I am and how wonderful I am and what a great job I do. That feels pretty good. And so I naturally am inclined to kind of pursue that and think I still have a handle on it until all of a sudden, in a moment, I don't. And then I have to deal with that, you know, now what do I do now what's going to happen? So it happens little by little over time. And the reason why I say no, you're not going to be able to have conversations to get through this is because if you were having the conversations that you're going to be supported and having in a way that is skill based, you would have been having them. Because nobody wants to go here. Nobody wants to live through this kind of suffering, not even the person who's doing it. It creates suffering for them and suffering for their partners and their families and their loved ones. Like the ripple effects, infidelity and betrayal are enormous. So believe me, if I could avoid that as a human being, I would. I just keep rationalizing the idea and the belief in my illusions that is going to be fine. And I got a handle on it. It's no big deal. So I don't know how to have the conversations that I need to know, that I need to have in order to unwind this. That's why it's an affirmative. Absolutely not. You can end it without any help and support, no problem. But if you really want to understand it and have it survive and thrive, you're going to need some help and support to do that.

Yes.

I just wanted you to emphasize that because I think a lot of people think, oh, God, you know, I tried everything, but I'm just a failure. Maybe the efforts of saving the relationship didn't work out in the way that you wanted them to. But it's not because you didn't try hard, and it's not because you didn't love them or you weren't trying everything you knew to make it work. It's because you didn't know the right things to do. You know, like you didn't have the exact skills that we know work to allow you to move through these huge obstacles. And mom always says you simply don't know what you don't know. And that couldn't be more true, especially in this situation.

Yeah, it's actually heartbreaking to realize that in relationships we actually all are doing the very best we know how because it's the one place in space, in the human journey where we really, really Want it to go well. And so there's reasons why all of a sudden, as one darling client of mine says, the cheese starts to slide off the cracker. And then when it does, we don't know what to do about it. And it's because we don't study skills around relationships or understand core existing principles that would then help us make better choices and better decisions. Because we do know we don't have that lack of understanding and awareness when it comes to love and relationships. But most of us weren't taught that. It's not our fault. If you're hearing my voice, my invitation to you is, if not now, when? When are you going to skill up and understand the principles that are going to help you make better choices and create better experiences in your relationships, not just with your partner, but with yourself and with others. It is the power that changes your entire life. You don't have to be afraid of not being enough anymore, because you know how to create connection and interactions with other human beings. So when things do become challenging, you have the skill and the awareness to make better choices. That creates better outcomes and better experiences overall. Like, what we're talking about is no small thing. And we're motivated to do this work when we're in an intense place of uncertainty and pain. Which is why space and separation is a beautiful time, dare I say, to skill up, to take this time and do something productive in the direction you want to go with it. There couldn't be a better use of your time. And that time will be well spent because it will serve you for the rest of your life. Relationally.

I don't know what more to say there. And the truth is, there's no script that fits for everyone. What does help is learning how to steady yourself so that you can handle those moments without losing yourself. That's one of the many skills that changes everything. Not because it guarantees your relationship's outcome, but because it guarantees you'll be proud of how you showed up through it. That is your ultimate win. And again, that is something that nobody can take away from you. And you will have a confidence and a competence to take you where it is you ultimately want to go into the future because I'm going to encourage you to love again. That's how we get better at it, right? And you're probably going, oh, no way. There's no way. Yes, you will. Because the natural inclination of a human being is to expand. And the greatest place to expand and grow is to get into a relationship. So as much as we say we'll never do that again. We do.

I reached out to you 15 years ago. You said you were done right before I did.

I was done with the whole gig. That's funny, huh?

You just didn't get the message from the right person, that's all.

If today's conversation hit close to home and you've been wishing you had a step by step way to get through this without the gut wrenching spiral, the love and limbo 30 day roadmap self paced version is open for you right now. It's the same program that we teach live, but it's now available at your own pace and you'll get the short daily lessons that help you stay calm, learn how to communicate better and safely and also rebuild some emotional safety. Plus we're giving you four Monday night better love club calls where we'll get together live, talk about your experience, where you're at, what you need help and support with and help you practice things that you're learning inside of that self paced model. This is where you can get the life support as you go. This isn't theory, it's the real day by day structure to help you stop surviving and start returning to yourself. Find yourself on the map without needing your partner to change first. It's the part that you can do. So you're going to learn how to ground yourself without sounding like you're chasing. You can send a message with some clarity and some intention. You're going to be able to set some boundaries which is identifying where I end and you begin without turning in into a fight. You're going to know how to reach out versus when to wait so that we don't create more conflict. You don't have to keep guessing here on what to say and how to hold it all together. It's not so much a waiting game allowing somebody else to make all the choices and decisions in your life that are going to impact you for the rest of your life. You need the tools that work in the middle of one of the most challenging seasons of relationships, not after it's all over. You can start anytime by visiting stacybartley.com 30day roadmap just choose the self paced option and join us. I want you to know I look so forward to seeing you on the next Monday night call.

So I think we to need a little fun.

Sounds good.

What do you think? Yes, and because of our conversation today, what gets shot to hell is our nervous system in this place. Like oh my gosh talk about hot mess. That's how we turn into a hot mess. So I decided that we were going to make a little game out of it. And the reason why is because humor helps us not only identify my nervous system and where I'm at, but it also takes away all the shame of feeling the way that I feel. Sometimes we can go, oh my gosh, I'm so crazy. Am I crazy? And we start to believe maybe I am when my nervous system gets shot. So if your nervous system right now is having a difficult time, I'm going to invite you to name it. So imagine for a moment it's like a.

Mood board, right? Like, what would you name the experience that you're having? The first one is popcorn brain. Like, my brain is just all over the place. So coming to you soon is my popcorn brain or another one I thought was really funny. Tornado in a teacup.

Oh, that's good.

I'm trying to keep it all together, but the damn thing is just swirling around, splashing all over the place. How about this one? Sloth on Red Bull.

Oh Lord.

So that's the place where I'm laying on the couch and I don't do anything, but I'm like.

Sloth on Red Bull or angsty soap opera starring me. Ta da. Or heart holding a fire drill. Like, what is a fun little title or name that you could give to your nervous system right now? Because humor and creativity help us to externalize our emotional dysregulation and self awareness without all the judgment that comes along for the ride sometimes. Give yourself a moment to smile, let go of some of the intensity and overwhelming thoughts. We can instead embrace and laugh about them, which often makes all the difference in the world. And if you want to hashtag us and share with us the name that you came up with or one of the ones that I identified here, borrow it, take it, share it with us. We'd love to hear from you. And the song this week is a song called Weightless by Natasha Bedingfield. This song reminds us that in the times of crazy making, we are weighted down like lead. But remember, the sky is still above us and it's limitless. And that imagination or that desire to just float, you know, free as a spirit on a journey of hope. It's a very empowering song. It's a very beautiful song. It's a very upbeat song, but I think you're gonna like it. So you can listen to this week's song along with our entire relationship playlist by going to our website podcast page or searching it up on Spotify. So thank you so much for being here with us in the Love Shack today. This conversation moved you, helped you feel a little more seen or gave you something to think about. Please consider sharing it with someone that you care about because that's how this podcast grows. Human to human, heart to heart. Please. And if by chance something moved you personally that you would like to share with us, consider leaving us a review. We would love that. Remember, love isn't built by avoiding the hard stuff. It's built by learning how to move through it with better skills and principles that are life giving. Have a wonderful week and we look forward to being back here with you again soon. Bye Bye everybody.

All right, it's time to leave the Love Shack, but before we part ways, we want you to know our door is always open and we'll leave the porch light on. Ready to welcome you back whenever you need a dose of relationship wisdom. For more resources and tools, Visit us at loveshacklive.com to dive deeper into the topics we've explored and find additional support for your relationship journey. Stay connected by subscribing to to our podcast. Thank you for being part of our Love Shack Live community.