#247: From Roommates to Lovers Again: The Skills That Bring You Back Together

Do you ever notice how quiet your house has become? Yes, it's quiet, but it's not the kind of quiet that feels peaceful. It's the kind of quiet that hums with tension. You walk past your lover and as you do in the hallway, you exchange a few words about dinner, the kids, and well, that's pretty much it. It's functional and yes, thank goodness, it's civil. But it's not feeling like an us together co creating life day to day. You can feel the growing distance even sitting right next to them. And you can catch yourself wondering, when did we stop being best friends and sharing ourselves with each other? When did we get so caught up in life that we forgot about us? When did we stop being lovers? And the most challenging part is you don't hate each other. Of course not. You love and care about them so much, you're just feeling tired. Tired of trying, tired of hoping, tired of somehow feeling like it will just fix itself. Tired of missing a person who is still right there, but emotionally long gone. If this is you and you're experiencing this right now in your life, then here's good news. This episode is about you. So welcome to Love Shack Life, the podcast for couples who find themselves at a crossroads, still committed, but quietly losing touch with each other and wanting to find their way back to what I call the good stuff. I'm Stacy Bartley, a relationship mentor who spent more than a decade helping couples and singles rebuild emotional safety, emotional intelligence and genuine connection using real skills and principles. And I'm joined by my co host lover Tom, and our daughter Brooke. Together the three of us, we teach the necessary skills that make relationships thrive in real everyday life. And today we're talking about what to do when you feel this drifting apart. How to stop the slow slide into living as roommates and possible separation, and instead start co creating something stronger, braver and more connected than before. It's a place that causes your toes to tingle. Once again.

Hey, thank you for coming. Welcome to the Love Shack.

So before we jump into the conversation though, I also want to share with you. We are creating something new here with you as the star of the show. Why? Because we value our listeners and what you have to say. So going forward, each week we're going to feature a listener's question or story from our inbox. Maybe it's even yours, because real shares from real people are what we desire this podcast to be. If you'd like to send us a question, or perhaps one that your partner keeps asking you that you don't know how to answer. Well, just know you can click the link at any time in our episode description that says send us a text and then feel free to share what you're struggling with, what you're learning, or a moment of hope that might help someone else listening along the way. As I like to say, we're all in this together, so let's help each other out. So here we go. This week's question hit us all right in the heart. It's from a listener whose wife has asked for space.

The listener asked, thank you for your podcast. My wife has asked for space, and your guidance is helping me with my mental spiraling. My question is, what about our kids? I feel like she wants a break from me, but also seems to be disconnecting from our kids. I'm trying to give her that space, but how do I express that? It feels like I'm taking the overwhelming responsibility of parenting, taking the kids to school, dropping off, attending conferences, sports practices, lunches, dinners, and just generally being available for them. Is this something I could express to her without causing a deeper divide? She has a very demanding job that was already keeping her away. Frequent travel, long days, etc. And when I've mentioned it, she gets defensive. Any advice on how to approach this would be helpful. Not sure if this will even be read, but figured I'd give it a shot.

I love the end of that. I didn't think that this would even be read, but figured I'd give it a shot. We read these. They're important to us, they guide us, and they also are very instrumental in our considerations in regards to the podcast episodes and topics that we create for you. And so Brookie came up with this great idea that, hey, I think we need to read one each week.

And right at the start, I'm like.

Heck, yeah, that is a really great idea.

Thank you.

So we can where our mouth is.

Okay.

Yeah. So here's the thing. Yes, we need to address it, but if you were to address it in a space and place that says, hey, what the hell, you know, I'm taking care of the kids and you're always gone, and I can't keep this up. So when are you going to re engage? I'm not bashing anybody. With great love and respect, that's where we tend to jump into, is talking about the issue, the problem. Okay, so if we're gonna just dive into talking about the issue and the problem, and I'm gonna talk about you and all the ways that you're doing it wrong and why it upsets me. We're going to create a fight. Commonly what happens is instead of, like, knowing how to frame it in a way that it can be heard, we get little meek about it. We kind of start trying to drop a hint. So did you notice that, you know, I made the kids lunch, so. I know, I noticed. You're not going to be home for the next seven days. You know, what about the kids? Like, we'll. We'll get mer about it, but we're still kind of doing the same thing. We're still talking about the problem and instead of setting it up for a win. And that win is starting with a piece of fairy dust is what we call it in my work. It's a place where I'm acknowledging what it might be like to live in the other person's experience. And I'm also looking for why this might be happening in their world. It's a place of coming at it from. Yes. Empathy, compassion. Like, what would it be like to be running around asking for space? And by the way, I kind of have an upper leg because I know that space doesn't mean we stop caring. Space means that I'm running out of emotional energy and gas to function. That's the problem. I'm expending it in my job, yes, and in my travel. But I'm also expending it in all the places and spaces within myself that I have conflict. Conflict in my relationship, conflict with myself, confusion in what to do or not to do, and then making these big, bold decisions. And, hell, I don't know if I'm. I could be making a bigger mess with all of this. And so it's like the more I feel like I'm struggling in doubt as a human being, the more exhausted I'm going to become. And this all creates this culmination where I suspect she's just trying to keep it together in whatever way space and places she can and sometimes to refuel. We have a tendency, most of us as human beings, to withdraw within. So you can start to see why, if I say so, you're not doing enough. You need to do more. Based on what I just told you. Can we see that? That just tells me I'm not enough. I'm not doing it right. I already know that I'm exhausted, but there's no way I can dig more out of the tank. So I'm going to defend that. You know, my. My requirement to survive in my experience at the moment will send me sideways and that space in place. So a better place to go is just to say, hey, I know you were doing your best through this very difficult time that we're going through. Since you've asked for space and separation. And I really want you to know that I see that and I really want you to know you've worked hard and you travel and you contribute a lot to the family. And so before I say anything, I just really want you to know that I see that and I understand and I have some concerns and worries about the kids. Right. As we're going through this place of difficulty, I'm really looking for how we together minimize the impact on the kids. So I've stated the problem, but I've also addressed where this other person might be coming from. And then the real important piece on the end is to just. If you want to just open it up for a conversation, I would say, how do you feel about this? Or what might be coming up for you around this? Do you have any ideas? Instead of me, just boldly step in and tell you what you're doing that isn't okay. Then we can open up the conversation with a little bit of safety and a little bit of emotional trust in the mix, hopefully where we could actually have an honest conversation and kick it around. So that's an example of the communication frameworks and the understanding and principles that we teach in our work all the time. Because it matters how you set it up and it matters how you open up a conversation so that you can do your best to not create more defensiveness than is necessary. And if we just boldly stayed into the problem, which that's what most of us do, or we get meek about it and not really say what we need to say, and we start to try and draw some hints, you know, so that they'll come to that conclusion of what I'm upset with on their own. Both of those are terrible tactics and strategies. In order to have a conversation about some of the concerns that I have, especially regarding our kids, I think that's.

A great place to start. It's funny, when we talk about defensiveness, we just had a great conversation in our Monday night Better Love Club. As many times as we talk about, there's always new insights and with great love and respect, none of us, including us three on this podcast, gets the hall pass. We all get defensive. We do. So it's just becoming more and more skillful and be able to implement when our perfect button has been pushed and we turn into a hot mess real fast.

Yeah, well. And just to understand what my Defensive posturing looks like, like so many of don't even realize we're defensive. We're just spun up about what you're doing and not doing. And I don't understand the role I'm playing in creating that or co creating that. So you know, those are important things for us to know because as Tom just said, all of us are going to get defensive. Like we don't get a hall pass on that when we can just become better at understanding it, being aware of it, and creating moments of choice where we can choose other things, other options. Instead of just get defensive by default, we're just going to get defensive and we're going to take a personal. And then I'm going to get so spun up emotional, I'm going to act out.

I'll just stack on one more thing. The first place of awareness and improvement and behavior change is for you to recognize when you're getting defensive. That's huge. So then just you slow down, take a pause, do some breathing quickly and this will help balance yourself. You have to slow yourself down.

You can even do a do over like mom two always talks about and say, hey, I'm realizing I just got super defensive in this moment. Would you be okay if we started that conversation over again or would you accept my apology for becoming really defensive? I didn't mean to do that and.

I just caught myself.

It could be that easy, you know.

Yeah. And thank you for your question and please send us more.

I would love for you to try it and then let us know how it went.

Yeah, yeah, like send us another text or. And also, I just want to say, just so you know, a lot of people text us in a way that we can respond to them. We can't respond to those texts. They come to us via email. So we don't get your full phone number and we don't get an email. You can put your email in the text. Then we could respond to you or you could just email us@loveaceybartley.com just wanted to say that.

Beautiful. That's beautiful.

So back to our regularly scheduled programming now just.

But it absolutely feeds into the conversation that we're going to have today because we're talking about living in the same space and place with somebody that you've been co creating life with for a while and you're noticing that things are starting to change. Things are starting to feel like they're drifting apart. Our immediate mindset is, oh my gosh, I'm doing something wrong or my partner's doing Something wrong. And it's amazing when I attune my thinking to what's wrong, I can all of a sudden see many things that are wrong. And that turns into a sensitivity where I become more and more spun up about trying to fix the wrong, which then turns me into the gently said asshole. It's trying to manage and control the house because I just know if I could fix this and get you to do this and not do this and everything would be fine. And oh my God, now we got another fire over here that I've got to fix and take care of. And oh my God, I'm noticing things that I've never noticed before. Now. Your tone of voice is a problem. And the way you talk to me is a problem. And the way the toilet paper comes off the roller a problem. And the way you sleep and the way you snore and I mean, it just starts to kind of mushroom.

As Brickey says, you're acting kind of cray cray.

So. So, number one, I want you to realize and understand this very important principle that relationships will naturally slow down and disconnect if I don't know how to create connection. It's a process that's natural and I don't like it. But I think you ought to know that without doing anything with regards to creating and maintaining connection intentionally, it will naturally decline. Decline.

Well, that's a universal principle. It is built in the entire universe, everywhere. Not just in relationships, in nature and anything.

Yeah. So it's interesting when we find our person and it's such a magical, wonderful moment in life and you step to commitment, you know, whether that's formally or between the two of you in your hearts, and you say, oh my gosh, this, this is it. Like this is that moment. And it is that moment. It's a beautiful moment. And everyone is very genuine and very sincere in those moments. And we want it to go so well, don't we? We really, really do. And so we step in and we start co creating life. And it's not long before many of the logistics of life start to overtake our relationships. And if we don't have this fundamental awareness that if I don't prioritize the relationship in my life, it's going to go through that process of decline. Not because you're malicious or ill intended. We are human. We are going to be mess makers. That's what we do best. We've got to tell the truth about that too. But naturally, over time, even with our best efforts of making money and taking care of the kids and paying the bills and making sure the laundry gets done and the trash gets taken out, and we have a date night on Friday nights. If I don't know how to create genuine connection, then it will decline. It will atrophy. So that's a really important skill. And so nine times out of 10, relationships will find themselves in a place where they're starting to drift apart, and then they start to panic. And then it's almost like we create more problems because now we're looking for all the problems. You know, we're looking in the drawers and under the mattress. Metaphor, Cleaver. What's the problem? I can implode on myself, too. I can become very harsh and critical and judgmental towards myself, and I can become harsh and critical and judgmental towards my partner. And I can criticize our relationship as a whole or the kids or the lack of money, all sorts of things. But I want you to realize the circumstances aren't the issue. What is the issue is our lack and inability to share it and to create fundamental connection in our lives with each other. And that's gonna be a process like breathing. I notice we're super bonded, and we're super connected, and we're wonderful and on the same page. And then a week or two or a month or two goes by, and I notice that that is starting to drift away. That's not a sign that we have major problems. It's a sign that it needs my attention with those important skills of creating connection again to be implemented so that we can come back to a place of, oh, gosh, you know, there's just nothing about you. I love you. I love you more today than I did yesterday. Why do I like you so much? I say that to Tom. Why do I like you so much? But when I don't feel like that, and I feel like work and our clients and our kids and our family and all the other things are starting to kind of get in the way, and I start to feel that canyon growing. That's not a bad sign that we have problems. That's a sign that I need to spend some very intentional time with Tom. Getting ourselves back to a place where we feel that deep connection. And as you do that and you understand the principles and skills to create genuine connection and you do it in your relationship, the panic starts to fall away, because, a, you know what's happening, and B, you know how to recreate it, and you get better and better and better at doing that over time as you understand yourselves and your partner. And your relationship more and more and more.

Don't you think it's very funny that it's oftentimes true in life that the thing that you think you need to do, which would maybe be spend time apart or maybe doubt that you're with the correct person or really is the time you need to come closer, you know, like, I think it's interesting that we've gotten that so wrong in our society because we don't all agree on how we should handle our relationships when they get hard. Obviously there's so much different advice coming from all different directions, but so many of us think that things are getting hard, we need to spend some time apart when it's really the exact opposite.

And here's what's interesting. You know, if I don't know that, which very few of us do, we don't speak about it in these ways, then I exacerbate the problem by getting all up in it, looking for problems, who to blame. I get more and more defensive when I'm called out on my partner side about things I'm doing that aren't working for them. And then you start to see in the work, after watching couples and living life as a couple myself, you start to see how we create our own mess in the mix of things. So it goes from being just a simple, hey, you need to reconnect, this needs some attention, it's starting to slip away. We go to, you're doing it wrong, I'm doing it wrong, I implode. Then I start criticizing the relationship and dissecting it every which way but sideways. And that is painful. And that creates a tremendous amount of suffering and fear and doubt in us. And I want you to see that. That's how the fear and doubt about relationships, about me, about you, about us, about what we're doing. And I can become so engulfed in the doubt and the fear of it all with no way out. Then what's interesting is I either really start acting out on you or I start coping and bleeding out the back by trying to find other places and spaces in my life where I find joy or comfort or a sense of well being so that I can continue to show up in this relationship and check all the boxes of being in it, being your partner, I still want to be. It's just, damn, when I'm here, it's so hard and it's so painful. So I'm going to take it for as long as I possibly can and then I'm going to escape and go do something else that Makes me feel a little bit better. And that's smart because I'm refueling so I can come back in and see if I can tweak and work on this a little more. And then I hang out there in those places and spaces. And I want you to see the next step. If I were to put this into a step of progression, the next step is I'm going to get angry and I'm going to get resentful, and I'm going to get frustrated by whatever it is I've made up as the problem. And it's usually you're doing this, and this part that we're inserting is you don't pay attention to me. We never have sex. You're always playing video games. You're always at work, you're always spun up in the kids. Every time I talk, you discount me. You don't hear me, you minimize me, you criticize me. You're talking too loud, you're yelling over me. You won't ever pick up your laundry. You don't give a shit about everything I do in this household. Stuff that we're just grinding through, hoping we'll get better, or missed conversations to get back on the same page and to create connection. And then if we don't know how to do that, then it just gets more and more exacerbated. It grows as I feed it.

It creates so many fractures.

Until the next crescendo would be, I can't do it anymore. I've run out of emotional gas. I have tried to grind it out, put up with it, breathe, be patient, go along with, give you what you want, not say what I need to say, withhold my true feel feelings. And I am sick of it. And that's where I'm going to say, I need space. I need to separate out of here. I can't do this anymore, not again. Because I don't love and care about you and remember the wonderful moments and times of our life. But because through that process that we've just described. Yes, on a very small summary that commonly happens over time, we say, I didn't see it coming. Well, that just means one person checked out and went numb. But if we were to look at the threads of connection as the meter in regards to how we're doing, how long have you not felt connected to your partner and like you were living separate lives?

Do you also find, though, that it could be one person has a much higher threshold for what they would consider is a bad relationship or a bad marriage? You know what I Mean, like some person could be like, maybe not happy, but they could be like, okay with less connection. And so because of that they think it's okay, but the other person is dying on the inside.

Yep, absolutely. Based on my family of origin, we all come to the table with what we deem as normal without realizing what we say we're all after is somebody who I feel like I can genuinely be myself with is the big common one. Right. And that we can have shared experiences and that we can co create moments that matter to us both, which gives us a sense that we're not in the this world alone and that somebody else really gets me and knows me. That's what we're all after. But we don't have any idea how to build those things. And so as the disappointment sets in, because what I made up is true starts to collide with the reality of what is, I start making up some very egregious stories about what the problem is and I start looking for the problem. And then I feel like I've got to get frantic about solving the problem when really I just need some skills and I need some understanding about how to reconnect with you so that we can start having those authentic conversations in spite of the circumstances that are surrounding us. Because it's never a conversation about the circumstances that we need. And that's, that's a mind blower for most of us. Like what? Yeah, we don't really need to be talking about the kids per se, or how much money we have in the bank or how many times you've, you know, done X, Y and Z. We need to be talking about where I emotionally go with those circumstances. And that's a whole new thing to wrap our head around that we have a really difficult time doing on our own.

It seems like. Excuse me for interrupting, but what triggered in me what you just said, that it's almost as if, if we can diagnose this and figure out who's at fault. Kind of like when we go get our car fixed. I mean, to be fair, but it's a lot more complex than that. And in that if there's two people or whomever are involved, then everyone has a part to play. And that can often be difficult to swallow when maybe there's a more identifiable person that may step into this egregious behavior, even saying that. And we get a lot of pushback on this on social media and such, like, let's just talk to the elephant in the room and like, say, in the case of an affair, if we can just make him or her pay enough and repent, then when he or she comes back, everything will be fine. Well, think about, with great love and respect, that that's a very interesting premise to hold, to think that that's gonna work.

Well, here's. I love what you said, and I really wanna highlight this. We approach the emotional nuances of relationship in the same way that we would diagnose a car or the same way that we would diagnose some kind of a physical problem or mess in our life. And yet, when you look at it, there is no way that I could hook up a device to you and to me and have it spit out some reading in regards to what the hell is going on here. Because it's so subjective, it's very personal in regards to the two people in it. And it is so true that the way I emotionally show up in my experience as a human being, I'm going to show up congruent, even though I'm trying to hide it, to the very thing that I am feeling physically. So, for example, if I feel like you don't really get me or you don't really care about me and want to hear what I have to say, well, in spite of me making you dinner and folding your socks and running the kids and doing a myriad of things that maybe you ask me for, I'm not going to share the emotional depth and nuance within me. So you don't know me. You don't really know me. And the more I do that, the more I'm sure you don't know me. Not because you might not be willing to know me, but because I'm convinced that you won't. So that in and of itself is going to drive me every day, stacking on that idea and shutting down more and talking outside of the relationship to others to get that connection and sense of knowing me. But I never really address it with you. And I don't share. I share less and less and less of me with you as I go through the pretend part that I'm in it. And I'm going to get exhausted and you're going to think you know me. You're going to think I'm being open and authentic and giving it all to you, that there's no more to know. But both are living in a state of illusion because none of that is true. And would you say nuanced?

Excuse me again, but would you say then that's why we all three of us here often like it seemed to come out of Nowhere. Right. Meaning like there was a lot going on that you just described.

Absolutely.

Wasn't being brought out to the surface. That's why it may seem. Again, I'm not. This is with great love and respect, why it seemed to maybe come out.

Come out of nowhere. Well, so to Berkey's point, we have different ideas and mindsets that we never really talk about in our relationships, about what it is we want to co create together in this emotional, nuanced space. In fact, we don't even know we need to talk about the emotional nuance space. We're just so certain that if we take care of all the physical logistics and make sure that we've got those all lined up right, that we. The fancy house and the fence and the cars and the ability to take our kids on vacation and ourselves, then we've checked all the boxes and nothing could be further from the truth. Not to say that I don't love those things, but the emotional nuance of me and you is what drives a sense or a feeling of connection. And if we can't access those right, then we have that decline that we talked about. Nobody's fault. It's just we don't know what we don't know. And everybody is doing the very best they know how. But I hope that in this conversation you can start to see where that slide turns into. I can't do this anymore. I'm out from a place of fear and doubt and frustration and resentment. And so in that place where I would say I'm going to share less and less and less of myself. And you think you know me because we've been together 15 years. There's going to become a point in time where you're going to learn to live with maybe what's going on here and find that you can make do and it's enough for you. As I'm becoming more and more weary about not feeling loved or understood or cared about until I blow the gasket. And then you're gonna go, what? What just came out of nowhere. But it never comes out of nowhere when you have the privilege and honor such as I do and we do, to hear the whole story. So it started 10 years ago, actually. It's just slowly but surely continued to decline until I've gotta make a choice to be okay myself or to continue in this. This game of illusion and pretend with you.

I was gonna say all those boxes that you were checking, like taking out the trash and going on date nights, also knowing your love language that when they Take the love language test, that they're doing something to save their marriage. And also when you said it's not so much that you need to talk about the circumstances, it's you need to talk about where you go in those circumstances. I think to some people that sounds a little bit like that cliche in therapy. Cuz we're not therapy and we like to make that clear. This is not couples therapy. It's different in a good way. But that, that cliche phrase and how did that make you feel? Which I think turns people off and they're like, no, I don't want to talk about how that makes me feel. But that's the thing is your feelings matter, but it's not in that way of where you're just venting and then nothing comes from it. It's so that you can identify the emotion.

Well, because I'm still looking for the physical diagnosis of okay, now wait a minute. Certainly there's gotta be an answer here, right? I mean, but, but that also serves us because there really are some practical fundamental principles that you need to understand about the emotional nuances of human beings. And when you do, you can to some degree, even in the nuances of emotion and the subjectivity to it, flip open the hood and go, oh, I see the problem. But it's not going to be like the consistent place while the carburetor connects to the, you know, and the carburetor is not turning here. And you know, let me. So look, you want to get under the hood, but under the hood you can't continue to look at the physical problems when you're trying to diagnose and look at an emotional nuanced experience. Yeah. And so it's very valid when a therapist says, tell me how that made you feel. And we all roll our eyes, ourselves included, because it's like, oh great, here we go on some conversation that as I walk out of here is not going to have any physical bearing on my life. Like, come on, get me something I can use. Because talking about my feelings doesn't have any tactile stuff to it. And I can't figure out for the life of me why that's the answer. So I think we ought to add a little context there. The reason why emotion needs to be talked about when it comes to relationships specifically is because when we think back about what got us to this place, it was an emotional feeling that caused you to fall in love with the person that's sitting next to you. Could you put words when it was all Happening. And we're so excited and blissed out and can't wait to get together again. Could you put words like, could you explain that on like a spreadsheet in regards to, okay, well this happens happened. And then I felt that we went there and then, and then this happened and then maybe, maybe then that's where I knew I was going to take her out on the first date.

Right there at 12:27 when they brought that special drink to the table.

Exactly. The circumstances didn't play into the emotional experience that brought you to this moment. It was what we call a magic carpet ride. A whole lot of emotion and relationships with a special someone is the most emotional journey we are ever going to take in our lives. And we are quite frankly, very ill equipped for it because we don't understand the emotional nuances of relationships. There are principles that absolutely govern it, number one. And number two, there are skills to help us navigate the nuances of those differences and uniquenesses and subjectivity in the experiences that we're both having that are extremely unique in nature. We don't know how to cross pollinate them. And so when I say tell me about your feelings, that's a person, hopefully a very skilled person who knows about this and isn't just practicing because this is what they were told. But we need to understand the emotional landscape behind the circumstances in any relationship. And that's why if I show up a certain way with a particular emotional nuance that's invisible, right, it's emotion which puts my behavior in motion, whatever that is, that's why I'm gonna live congruent to it, then you're gonna do the same. And so we can have the power and the ability, if we understand these nuances, to co create connection or to co create tension and drama and fights and fear. Like we have the power truly as two human beings to create anything. The problem is we've just never really been given the tools and the principles to understand what the hell we're up to. So by natural default it's going to decline, we're going to slip apart, and then we're going to blame each other for it. And then we're going to be disappointed, gutted, distraught, and we don't know whether it's you, whether it's me, or whether it's relationships or the club of relationship as a whole. So in order to defend myself with all of this, I can say I'm broken and not fit for love. You are not fit for love. Get some fucking therapy. Excuse my French. My God, you're a hot mess. Or you know what? I'm out. I'm tapping out. Relationships. Don't do them anymore. Not for me, not for me, not for me. And. And you understand why we do that. I mean, it makes complete sense, but as we start to uncover it, there's so much more to understand. So tell me about your feelings. Is it's appropriate as long as we know what we're doing and reading, shall we say, the emotional nuances behind it. That's what's happening. And there are some very practical tactile things that you can be doing. So if you find yourself frustrated in that place and space, well, then maybe you need to try something different. Because you're right. We can't just sit around and talk about our feelings without some very practical behavior changes behind it and expect to go in a different direction. That's true. I agree. We need both. We need to understand, we need to learn, and quite frankly, we need to skill up so that we know those tactile things to practice. And I need to say one more thing about the conversation to this point in time before we go to the next point. That love language thing, that was genius. Chapman was brilliant when he came up with that, and here's why. He gave us something physical, practical to do that we bought into believing would make a huge difference. And it was a little skill. And a little skill, we could talk about the emotional nuance a little bit, right? So we could start to kind of understand my partner a teeny tiny bit. And then it gave me that practical thing that I could do on the backside. Now, unfortunately, when we're having conflict, I can't just say, we'll do that love language thing and we'll be fine. Because there's so much to the emotional nuance that we don't understand. In addition to, yes, I love physical touch, I love acts of kindness, you know, acts of service.

It's a good benchmark.

That was brilliant because it really did make us feel like we could just go in and diagnose it and tweak the physical circumstances a little bit. And then what?

We're done?

Where's we are done. So, you know, this bump on that one, Chapman, that was really brilliant. You taught what we thought we needed in the world of relationships, and then you gave us something practical and tactile to do it. And now, with great love and respect, it's a baby step in a tsunami. It's a drop in the bucket in comparison to where we need to go. But at Least it gets things started.

Well, I think, to be fair, I don't think it was ever intended to be cure all. Just the market ran away with it. And boy, everyone from a business perspective would love to have a home run like that. So, yeah, absolutely.

Now, while we're on the subject, let's just say one more thing about labels. That's why we love labels. We love labels because it makes us feel like again, we've gotten into that physical under the hood kind of thing. And then I can label you as this thing and we've solved the problem. It's all handled. We don't need to talk about our feelings. Well, unfortunately, that's not gonna do much for you either. Even though in the moment, kind of like our love languages, we feel like we've done something, it's answered, you know, it's given my logical brain an answer to why it is I'm emotionally hurting. But that's only a teeny tiny drop in the bucket. And the real dangerous thing about labels is once I've diagnosed you, whether that's with a quiz or a book or some kind of random piece of advice from somebody, well, I then treat you like that. And so go back to what we talked about in this episode. In fact, you might want to listen to this a couple of times because we really did walk you through the step by step process of what happens when our relationship starts to slide apart and then plug in that label. Oh, I've got you all figured out. And now I'm going to treat you like that. And that's going to continue to grow the canyon of conflict between us, not solve it. And it doesn't give us any practical tools in regards to what to do. So if we think about it like, okay, so I'm this fill in the blank label. Now what? Now what do we do?

Okay, now, just so you know, I'm the detail guy. I think to be fair to the listener, if you've been following us any period of time, you know that we have a survey, we have an assessment. So are we diagnosing people with that survey?

We don't diagnose people, but we do want to help people take a reflective look at understanding themselves.

It's like a snapshot of where you are right now with your skills, the skills that you use in relationships. It's like taking a virtual snapshot to see how you're responding and reacting inside of your own relationship. But I think the important thing to remember is that you can get better at choice pills. So it's not a diagnosis. It's just a snapshot. But I understand why you asked that question, dad.

Yeah, and I think so. So when you take this assessment, you know it's going to help you understand where you are right now and what you're navigating. If you've listened to us for a period of time, you know, we're very, very focused on helping you expand your skills and more importantly, be able to deploy them, especially when we're triggered or going through a difficult situation. So this assessment is to give you a snapshot of how you're navigating that right now and how we might be able to serve you to get better. Is that fair enough?

Well, any. Anything that we can do, like a love languages or like a quiz or an assessment is very attractive to a human being because it helps me understand my. Ideally, myself. The ones that are dangerous, wow. The ones that can be challenging to the relationship is the diagnosis where you're just this end all, be all thing. That's not what we want. We need something that has a lot more life in it because we need to go somewhere. We need to transform our way out of this. So, yes, I want to understand where I am today, but I also need to understand how to create something different. And very often when I say you're this thing that we feel like that's the end of the road. Right. And we don't know how to continue on and create a 2.0 or a 3.0 in those places and spaces. In fact, sometimes it can become very challenging.

Well, and you often share like, I'm going to start showing up as that thing and you're going to start treating me as that thing.

So I guess I'm that thing. And what have we accomplished? Not much. It doesn't help us know how to go forward. And the reason why we keep pounding skills is because if I understand my emotional sense of self and I have an awareness about how and why it is that I act out the benchmark, then ironically would be creating behavior to navigate that. So it's gotta be about changing my behavior when these emotions flash. Well, I'm never gonna get very good at doing that if I don't understand the emotional trigger itself. I'm gonna continue to behave the way I always have. So there is a component of physicality to it in the way that I show up and the way that I behave. But the only way I'm going to be able to go there is if I understand the emotional stretch of road I'm navigating internally myself. That's very nuanced and personal to me. And then I have the opportunity and the ability to listen and understand yours. And then together we can literally change our behavior and how we interact to go forward. And that would be the tactile, practical change that we're all looking for. So we can't say, I'm not going to talk about my feelings. Well, okay, then we can't understand the emotional firing or experiences that drives you to do what it is you're doing. You don't want to look at that, then you can't change it. And that's true for any and all of us. You know, just to get really granular and practical here, the label doesn't really help us much. So. And that's a big conversation that we can often get stuck in and together. Today on this podcast, you're just trying to create some very practical, practical views of why do we find ourselves in these places and why in the emotional relational journey is it so subjective? And why is there such a variety of advice out there about these crossroads, these pivotal moments in relationships, about what I should do, what I shouldn't do? Because you're dancing in the emotional world, right? The emotional nuanced world, and everybody's going to see and experience it differently, and everybody's going to have different needs and desires out of it. And firing off on the circumstances of life are not going to get us there. They certainly don't help me change my behavior. And I can't force somebody to change behavior. It has to come from a genuine exploration and understanding of me. A desire from within. Yeah.

I would hope that, you know, from our sharing today and, and oftentimes in other episodes, it gives you some grace and some understanding. It's like God makes sense. I would say this is the most dynamic thing any of us are going to step into. I mean, let's just give it the respect and grace that it deserves. I mean, just to think that this is just kind of we just find someone and we knock it out of the park kind of a thing.

I mean.

I mean, based on what I mean, so I. I mean, it's nobody's fault, but I think, you know, we need to speak to this from a place of clarity and real understanding the best that we can. It's dynamic and fluid and changing constantly.

So good gracious, because I'm changing constantly and so is everything around relationships. This conversation today reminds me of Rich and Janet, and they were clients of ours, just dearly love them. Rich and Janet came To me, when they had filed for a divorce and Rich had been diagnosed as a narcissist. And when that diagnosis came, I remember Janet sharing with me that she then thought, okay, it's over. If he's a narcissist, then I guess this is the end of the road. And once a narcissist, always a narcissist. I guess that's it. And there was just something about the conversation that she had had with Tom to step in and become part of our Love for a Lifetime program that sparked her to just want to explore maybe giving it one more try, one.

More shot, because Janet was the one that had filed it for the divorce. It was in process.

And thankfully, they both decided to step in and do many of the things that we talked about today. What we found out was the narcissistic behavior was coming from actually Rich being terrified of doing it wrong, terrified of relationships. He didn't have a lot of, like, modeling. He didn't have a lot of great nurturing in the family of origin that he came from. He loved Janet so much and wanted this to work so much, but was terrified he couldn't do it. And so he was acting that out. And for a long time, Janet would play along or try and plague it, but she even started to question whether she was this monster that he had continued to tell her that she was. And so this defensive cycle that they were stuck in for years is what drove them apart, wasn't because, I mean, they had a beautiful relationship. I remember them telling me about it and got married and their. Their new home that they had built and create together and how magical that day was. And then how is it that all of these years later we could be in such a state and a place, and that can happen to any of us? Like, literally, if you've really followed along in regards to what we've talked about today, that can happen to any of us in a relationship, regardless of how the story starts. You and I have a pretty awesome story. But as we know, after being together as long as we have, that story didn't save us when it come to really sharing some really emotionally difficult bumps in places and spaces in our relationship. And so what changed for them and for you, this can happen for you, too, is we can start to learn the art of emotional safety. The ability to translate your thoughts and feelings into a language that, yes, first you gotta understand so that you can share it and then be able to create the safety to have that exchange of information happen, because that's what ultimately Creates connection. And as a couple, if both people will do these things, anything can be overcome. And those darn labels aren't going to help us much. So Rich and Janet were on the edge with divorce papers, hope fading, wondering if they'd come to the end of the road. And what saved them wasn't magic. It was actually knowing the principles and skills that they needed to have in order to change their behavior. And as their behavior and understanding of themselves and each other changed, so did the realization of what we could create together.

And I would just say they were just awesome as far as how much they rolled up their sleeves. When people talk to me on clarity calls and such, I always encourage them. If they're resonating with how we approach it and how we teach, mentor and coach, they say, well, I say you roll up your sleeves to the very highest ability that you're able to understand that you have other things in your life. But Rich and Janet were in a place where they could roll up their sleeves. They dove into working with Stacy and then all the curriculum that we have people and want them to study, and then they can bring that back to Stacy with what's not working instead of Stacy having to teach them that while, you know, so it was just a very good process on both sides, and they had excellent results.

And you can, too. If you're in this place, the land of maybe, or the space where things are starting to drift apart. The first thing I'm going to say is, don't wait, because you can start to see the longer we hang out here, the further we drift apart. I always applaud the couples who are not on the verge of divorce or separation, but just know that they're going in a direction that they don't want to continue to go. And so they raise their hand early and say, help us, help us navigate this. We don't want to continue to go in the direction that we're going. And I'm thinking, bravo, bravo to you for taking action decisively before you're in so much pain and your relationship house is burning down. And this is exactly the kind of work that we do and support in our program. So there are two paths depending on where you are right now. Path one is save your marriage A blueprint for avoiding divorce. And that's for couples on the edge or fighting the same fights, walking on eggshells and quietly wondering if it's already too late. This program is a step by step journey to help you rebuild many of the things that we've talked about in this episode, trust, emotional safety, intimacy, but also understanding the very important principles that you need to understand so that you can assess where you are and what it is we need to do to go in a different direction. This particular path, Path 1 is a guided group experience, which is with weekly coaching calls and a private community and all the tools that you need to accomplish where it is you need to go that's different from where you are. And it's a group program so that the cost can be minimized. Right. So. And I know that there's a lot of us that feel like in order to work on my relationship, I have to do it one on one and privately. And I just want to say right here, right now, that is not the truth. There are many couples that we have helped and supported through a community program and usually on the front side that makes our armpits a little sweaty. But I'll tell you what, they get so much more out of it because they've got people to practice with where it doesn't matter and they've got others who are on the same path. And they can literally see that the same situation and circumstances have played out amongst all the couples that are on the call. So it gives credibility to the principles that they're living and understanding and learning because everybody else is affected the same way. Well, and I think kind of like this.

This, I was going to say also I think many times since Stacy and I have been in this place, when you're going through this kind of a difficulty, number one, it's very private. Number two, we think we're the only ones going through it. We know because our clients have shared this with us. It's very liberated. Not in a place we wish others ill and not doing well, but it gives others this liberating, like, oh my gosh, I'm not the only one that's struggling with this. This is universal. Dear listener, we work with people all over the world. It's not just a culture. If you're human, you're mess making machines. Stacy says that all the time, and.

We are, us included, these skills and principles apply. So path two is more of a private VIP experience. It's private sessions with me, not just the group group coaching calls in the community. We're still going to learn all the same things. It's just going to be a private experience. And this program is by application only. So we need to make sure that we're all a good fit. And the cost, starting at 5,000 for a one on one experience where not only do we just do sessions. You also are in our community called the Better Love Club. And we're going to walk with you through that nuanced, asynchronous experience of between sessions you have access to a lifeline. Let's say you're practicing some of the things that we've talked about in our session or that I've sent you as far as like resources go and all of a sudden, you know, things blow up. I don't want you waiting until your next session to get help and support. Like, we want to manage this right here, right now and help you go in a different direction. I always have this image when I talk about this part and piece of like teaching swimming lessons when I was younger. And you'd say, okay, do it like this. And then they'd swim out and then, you know, they'd get out in the middle and start floundering and stuff and you'd kind of have to like pull them in and go, okay, okay, you did this part great. But now I need you to add legs. And you know, all of a sudden, yay, you can swim across the pool. Yeah.

And just so we're clear too, Stacy shared that gold is here. It is. I mean, as you can appreciate, there's only so many of us in our family. So at the gold level, you have tremendous access to Stacy and to me and to Brooke. Because if you need some help, like if you're swimmin like Stacy just described, we want to give you that lifeline. And then we have the silver version of this and it's a bronze version. It's all the same. We only can handle so much access at once. So that's really the difference. It's structured the exact same way. It's just less amount of one on one hours with Stacy, not as close access. We're not quite swimming right next to you as far as when we're going to get back to you. It's still in a very strong capacity. But as you can appreciate, we want to make sure we can deliver on what we promise.

Absolutely. So you'll have private sessions, real time lifeline support between meetings and full access to the Better Love Club community for ongoing practice and connection if you choose. So this is for couples who still want to try. And I'm just going to warn you, there's always one that's hesitant, like that's normal. I really want to normalize that. There's going to be one that's saying, okay, okay, come on, come on, come on. And there's going to Be one that's like, oh, we don't really have problems, do we? I mean, that seems like a lot of work. And that's usually how it rolls. Every now and again, you'll get everybody going, yeah, we really gotta fix this. Let's go find somebody. But it's very common to have one that's eager and one that's a little hesitant. And so if you apply, we'll reach back out to you and we'll make sure it's a really good fit before we move forward. And this is also to create some opportunities for that hesitant partner to find some reassurance that it doesn't mean that they're wrong or bad people or it's your fault or we've got big problems. Maybe it's just we need to tweak a few things because is gosh darn it, we're sliding off in a direction that we don't want to go.

And let me just speak to something also. I think that's very important here is oftentimes, let's say you're the person that's raised his or her hand and you've reached out to say me, and you've had a clarity call. Well, then the hesitant partner, he or she may think, well, wait a minute now, you're the one initiated that, so they're going to take your side. I hear this all the time and people have experienced and I always remind people, look, Stacy's at the worst mediator. If a mediator is going to be effective, he or she can't take a side. So, so we're human, but all we want is for this to go well. We don't take a side. We don't tell you what you should do. We're just going to help you understand and have a strong clunk, as Stacy likes to say, of what your next best steps are. So it doesn't matter that if you reached out to us first, we're not going to like your partner and take their. That's not how, but it's a valid question because I hear it all the time.

I do.

So I think that was important to speak to that.

So let's, let's speak to the divorce mediator piece for just a minute. I am a divorce mediator, and my awareness in the divorce mediation practice brought me to recognizing and realizing that we need principles and skills. Because I would see people cycle through my practice with yet another divorce or another blown up relationship. And so maybe I wasn't doing a divorce for them, but they felt safe and comfortable with me that they would come back and start asking me questions. And so I thought we've got to do a better job of scaling up and understanding how relationships work, work, which is what put me on the front side of the house. So I don't necessarily promote divorce mediation because it would quite frankly overwhelm my practice. And that's not really what I want to spend my time doing. I want to spend my time teaching and mentoring human beings and becoming better at this relationship journey. However, that does empower us for a few things. Like in either one of these two paths, those it's important for us to understand it's going to go one or two ways. You know, ideally we're going to go, oh, this is making a lot of sense. We can go and look at what we can do now. We can create these amazing, wonderful things and we are all going to celebrate together. It's going to be incredible. Okay, I understand now about me and about you and why it is we're probably not the best co creating couple. We love each other, which is awesome. Them. But maybe the way that I need things or you need things and these emotional nuances, right. Create that place of like, ah, I get it now. And we can both arrive at that place which is what I call a loving release. That's important because there's a sense of completion and understanding there. So you don't walk away with these terrible, malicious narratives about yourself or about your partner or about all men or women or relationships overall, that there's some understanding about the human journey here. And then if that's the case, I can support you through that process because we've done all this work together now, very seldom is that the case. We can make a tremendous amount of progress and we have two wonderful people who are willing to learn and grow and scale up. But yes, I am a divorce mediator and I use that very, very judiciously in my practice. So just wanted to speak to that a little bit that both of these programs are designed to give you structure and a sanctuary and the tools that you need to rebuild what's been lost. So you can learn more and apply for the Love for a Lifetime program or enroll in Save youe Marriage A Blueprint for Avoiding Divorce right now at stacybartley. Com and with great love and respect, I'm gonna say this again. You can't wait long enough nor think your way out of disconnection. It will be required that you learn and practice your way through it. Love can't carry a relationship. But Skills and understanding, good sound principles can. So that's really important that we say that at the beginning and at the end and throughout. So I know we've given you a lot here to chew on again. Don't hesitate to kind of come back and look at these things.

If you're unsure about any of this, you know, just schedule a call with me. I'm not going to try to close you or sell you. I'm not selling you a car. No disrespect, we have a wonderful person we use to buy our cars. But I'm just going to help you discover what may be best. If we feel like we're a good fit it and I'll suggest some things.

And you can book that clarity call with tom again@staceybartley.com and there's a place where you can schedule a free clarity call with him, a 15 minute free clarity call to just explore what's possible here. So long story short, just don't wait because disconnection is going to be the process that we all have to navigate when we just kind of let things sit for a while and not know how to create that connection we talked about.

Out.

So our final to fun today is an emergency calm kit. I just thought, you know, we can start kind of really spiraling out of contrast, right? That's exactly the idea. Build a tiny calm kit that you can use when you're flooded emotionally or you don't know what to do, you're out of sorts and you're not thinking straight. Create it so that it fits in your pocket or your glove box or on your phone perhaps as a background because your survival mode doesn't get to run your life anymore. And if you don't have some skills in your calm kit box, it will run your life. So your calm kit could be a sticky note with your go to affirmation or anchor phrase, right? Like, you got this, you can do this. There's nothing wrong with you, you deserve this, you matter. Right? We can figure this out. I don't know how yet, but I will. Anything that makes you feel like, okay, just, just give me a minute, let me regroup and let's go again. So a sticky note is a really good one. Some of our clients have put them on their dashboards or the rear view mirror or wadded them up in their purse or their pocket. Another great one is to remember that box breathing method where if I close my eyes and I start to breathe, I really slow. Right. The fast moving emotional experience of being a human being. Here. So that's a N for four counts, a hold for four counts, and an exhale for four counts. And I'm completely focused on my breathing. And another of my favorites is a favorite photo or memory that brings you peace and good vibes. You know, something that takes you back to a good place.

You know what that picture would be for me? What did we just experience earlier this month?

Italy.

A picture of the castle. More on that, ladies and gentlemen. I know that was kind of. But we were in Italy earlier this month, if you're listening live, and if you're not. And it was miraculous. And we're actually going to have a retreat there next year here. More on that later.

Absolutely. Well, that's what I have on my phone right now. I have a picture of Italy on my phone right now because it does just that. It brings me back to a good place. And the last one that I'm going to suggest to you is a physical object as human beings, if you start to explore the senses. Right. A physical object that I can feel in my hand or maybe there's an aroma through an essential oil or something. It helps me calm down. Or maybe it's a cozy pair of socks or a favorite beverage that, like some kind of a physical object can take us to those places as well. I was growing up as a kid. My mom, you know, was. It was a Pepsi and. And then it was, you know, so then it turned into.

That's another story.

Yeah, that's a whole nother story for another time. So just make sure that your calm kit is something you can practice in the moment. And it's practical and it's portable, and it deeply reminds you to slow down and reassure yourself that. That it's going to be okay. We're going to figure this out. Calm kit. Yeah. And our song for this episode is a song called I Never Saw It Coming. I just thought the title was kind of a dead giveaway. It's by the late June, which is a wonderful group that creates fabulous music. If you're not familiar with them, check them out. This is a song about hope and motivation, and it's going to encourage you to stop waiting and do something and.

Reach for the good again.

Reach for that good again. It's so worth it. But if we don't reach for it, we're not going to have it. And you can check out this song on our podcast playlist on Shopify Love Shack Life playlist, or you can go to Again, our website, staceybartley.com where you can learn more about me and the work that we do. Probably more than you ever wanted to know. StacyBartly.com is the place where you can.

Also see and the podcast page where our episodes each episode has a song so you can listen to the episode. But yeah, we have a a playlist on Spotify Love Shack Live playlist.

Thank you so much for being here in the Love Shack with us today. And if this conversation has moved you or helped you a little, you know, or helped you feel more seen, gave you something to think about and chew on, please consider sharing it with someone that you care about. Because that's how our podcast grows. It's important. Human to human, heart to heart. You know, this is how we spread the word of hey, there's skills and principles and hope and there are things that we need to understand and do here that can help us pursue do that good stuff.

Send us a question we're gonna and let us know how you like this. We opened up the show with a question because we really do appreciate feedback. So we're gonna start answering one of those at the start.

And remember as we say goodbye, love isn't built by avoiding the hard stuff. It's built by learning how to move through it with better skills and principles that are life giving that good stuff. So have a wonderful week. We look forward to being back here with you again soon. Bye Bye.

All right, it's time to leave the Love Shack. But before we part ways, we want you to know our door is always open and we'll leave the porch light on. Ready to welcome you back whenever you need a dose of relationship wisdom. For more resources and tools, Visit us at loveshacklive.com to dive deeper into the topics we've explored and find additional support for your relationship journey. Stay connected by subscribing to our our podcast. Thank you for being part of our Love Shack Live community.