#116: Communication Makeover: The Damaging Effects of Defensiveness on Relationships

All humans have defensive behaviors, and we're going to forever and always have defensive behaviors. And our opportunity here is to embrace them, to understand them, and to understand when it's at play so we can do something different. We can actually make a conscious choice to do something different there.

Hey, thanks for coming. Welcome to the love shack.

Hey, welcome to the love shack. It's a little place where we get to get together, explore fresh perspectives, and eavesdrop on juicy conversations to discover the things that really matter while having a little bit of fun along the way. This is episode number 116, defensiveness, the deadly killer of even the best relationships. I'm Stacy Bartley, and this is my co host and lover, Tom. It's great to have you here with us inside the love shack today. And this conversation is one that I see each and every day in my private practice. And it's one that I also have to keep an eye on in my own relationship. Because defensiveness is a human experience. When we feel like we're emotionally pressed, we hear things, we witness things that send us to places inside of ourselves where we feel emotionally charged. What most of us are very good at is switching on our defensiveness. And then we try and manage the emotional experience that we're having through a process called manipulation. Because we don't have a lot of really great skills when it comes to this emotional place inside of ourselves. And most of us, if we know anything, have been taught how it is. We leverage control, collapse into getting our needs met. And there's some better ways to do this, but this is the most common as well as the most compromising experience we do in our human relationship?

Would you say that we are. When we are in the height of our defensiveness is also the time that we are absolutely so sure that we are not being defensive?

Well, or that we're entitled to do what it is we're doing. Because after all you just said or did, fill in the blank. And so how it shows up in my office is stories like this. A couple comes in, they've been going round and round in the same experience over and over again. What she is wanting is some emotional connection. What he is professing is that he's doing everything he can and that she just needs to stop nagging, getting off his back, blaming him for the situation, and then she might be successful in getting what it is she says she wants. And so as we work together, giving them instructions to talk about and ask what it is they need, and there's a common conversation that begins to emerge where the minute we go to the emotional, the client goes to all the things that they're doing. Meaning, okay, wait a minute. So one person is saying, please be with me emotionally, connect with me, spend time with me, I want to make love to you more often. And the other person goes to a conversation of so what? You don't appreciate what I do. Like I pay all the bills, I mow the grass, I do the kids, I'm dropping them off, I take out the garbage every week. Yeah, I'm doing it all over here. So don't tell me this is all my fault. I'm doing my part and right there I hope that you can see there's a major disconnect where one person is talking about the logistics of living and the other person is talking about the emotional experiences they desire in a relationship. So I want you to understand that completing tasks is good, but it does not equal emotional connection. Like those two things are different, they reside in different places in our brains and they create different experiences with inside of us as a human being. And when I'm stuck in defensiveness and it could be on one side or the other, I'm not going to be able to create a bridge to experience both.

And if we're the one that's citing, if we're the partner, the spouse, the husband, wife, spirit, excuse me, citing these things, we're contributing not the emotional things but the task oriented things. Is it because we do really think or feel that that is the way of demonstrating love?

I think it's because we don't understand where the other person is coming from. And I don't know how to get there and I don't know how to do that and I'm not quite sure what you want. And so I get frustrated feeling like I'm doing everything I possibly can to make you happy and to make this work. And so I feel misunderstood. And then I get emotionally plugged in and then I attack. And so I'm saying look at what I'm doing, look at everything. I'm like sacrificing to be in this relationship with you, in with you. And the other person is saying yeah, okay, I hear that but which is where the other person feels negated. I need you to do these emotional things for me. And that's going to be One is just as stuck in defensiveness as the other. And the outplay is they're not cross pollinating what it is they need because a, they don't relate to that type of experience in relationships. So I I don't know how to do it. I don't know how to go there. I don't know how to say that. I don't know what you're wanting. And I just now feel negated and unappreciated and dismissed. And so then I get defensive, too. And so we're going to argue about those things probably until we get emotionally depleted.

I would say in this situation, most of the time the woman is asking for the emotion, emotional connection, like you just said. And a lot of the times the man is saying, I don't know how to do that. So what do you say to a person who says, I don't know how to be emotional? I feel like that's a really big defense that we use in our relationships. We defend ourselves by saying, I don't know how to be emotional. So I'm not going to do it because I can't change who I am as a person. I like, that's a huge. That's a huge mountain that a lot of people are struggling to climb over.

So what do you say to that? Yeah, there's. Then we've got to come in, and the first thing we're going to talk about in this episode is how to get out of defensiveness. Because just saying, oh, this is just the way I am, or this is just my personality, get over it, is not going to take you where it is you need to go. It's just going to basically keep you stuck in your own defensive posture and behavior, because that statement in and of itself is defensive. And so if you're in love, which typically we are, we find people and fall in love with people who are a representation of what it is we don't possess as a strength, meaning a very logical, strategic person is going to probably fall in love with and find an amazing, wonderful adventure with somebody who's exceptionally passionate and emotional and sensitive. And then the opportunity that's there in our relationships is to be able to expand ourselves into things that we don't already possess as strengths. And yet the frustration of that is going to make us mad sometimes, because I. The reality is I really don't understand this emotionally sensitive creature. And it makes me frustrated that also I feel like at times they can't get out of their own defensiveness enough to understand my side of the equation. And so now we're just competing for who's right and who's wrong. And it's like becoming this fart in the room where if there's only two of us in this relationship and I don't feel like I did it. Well, then you've got to be the scapegoat goat here. It can't. If it's not me, and we all believe it's not me, I'm doing everything I possibly can do to make this relationship work. So then it's got to be you. And there we go into the cycle of fighting and conflict and breakdown, and we don't understand that defensiveness is really the thing that is at the root of it all, that we're stuck in our own unwillingness and in our own inability to let go of my agenda long enough to understand somebody else's and vice versa. And so we get stuck in our positions and then we defend those positions, and then we entitle ourselves to do a bunch of things that we know we shouldn't be doing and saying. And over time, those things that I do and say become more egregious and I feel more broken down and I feel disgusted with myself and what I am doing and what it is I am saying. And as a lot of clients say to me, I'm turning into a monster of myself, but I don't know what to do. And that is a sign that we are stuck in defensiveness. Now, it can flip another. This is another common story I'm going to share with you. Somebody has been in a position where they've been a pleaser and they've acquiesced to a partner for a long period of time. And then one day they realize that, hey, I don't have to do this anymore. And actually, you've been a real controlling beep beep in my life, and you're not going to do that anymore. So because I've put up with you for 10 years or 20 years or 30 years, we're going to do this on my terms now I'm going to be in charge and I start saying things like, you better apologize, you better make amends. You better get this right. I'm not going to give you sex. I'm not going to spend time with you. I can't move on. I'm stuck here until you do these things. And all that's happened there is there's been a shift of power where one person wants their relationship to work really bad and the other person has gone from pleasing to I'm calling the shots now, and you'd better do what I say. They've just switched roles in the defensive posture. And so I feel like you have to pay a penance or a price until whenever Time in the future, I deem that you are now have your salvation and then we can move on in our relationship. And just by nature of the never ending idea of that journey tells you that you're in a form of defensiveness. Okay. Because it doesn't work like that. We can't set a time somewhere in the future where I don't know where that's going to be and what's going to happen or what's going to need to happen in order for me to let it go know. So that tells you you're stuck in defensiveness because we can't get better at some unknown station with some unknown behavior that we're looking for and then just hope that this is all going to go okay. And so you also start to see that defensiveness is very irrational because it's not strategic, it's driven through our emotional lens. Does that make sense?

Yeah. And would you say that this is one of the most significant hurdles that you find working with our clients to get them, number one, be able to see it and then work with it and move through this?

Yes. Our tendency when we get into emotionally pressed situations and conversations and experiences is to immediately resort to defensiveness. That is our go to. And if we don't understand what we do, I call it that thing I do with all the love, respect and kindness in the world. We all have a thing we do. It is a thing that we have done to survive situations where we didn't have a lot of control over our environment or experience. Whether that was true or whether that was made up in my own mind. And so I learned ways of coping with that to get me through it. It's actually quite brilliant when you think about it. But as we get into co creating with another person and the years wear on our defensive postures and behaviors to continue to show up and cope with what's not working in our relationships turns into egregious defensive behavior. And you notice that it escalates over time. In the beginning, we all start out from a place of oh, there's no problem, don't worry about that, that's no big deal. Oh, I can totally do that, no problem. And that quickly turns into year two or three or five of oh my gosh, I don't know how long I can take this. And time we get into year seven, eight, 10, we're starting into personal breakdown now and we're lashing out unbelievably. I'm saying and doing things to you that I wouldn't say to my Neighbor next. I'm now taking out all of my frustration on you and because I feel like you should know better and I make up a lot of stories about how that you're responsible for this. Again, going back to the fart in the room. If I believe it's not me, then it's got to be you. Okay, then I'm going to start labeling you and diagnosing you and preaching to you, which are, by the way, all forms of defensiveness in an effort to turn this all around. And I can't figure out why we're not making progress. And I can't figure out why you're actually getting more demonstrative in how you respond to me or you get more shut down. And those are just the two very differences we have in emotional survival mode, where I either rip your face off every time I feel emotionally plugged in or I look for the nearest escape hatch. Get me the heck out of here. I don't know what to do. I'm uncomfortable with conflict. I need to exit stage. And I want you to see both of those behaviors. Yes, we'll buy you time. They won't change the sh. The challenge that you're facing. They're not going to fix the problem that you've got to figure out what to do with, but they will buy you time, as everybody is in survival mode, but not forever.

And those you've just described, correct me if I'm wrong, as I share often in our clarity calls that the only tools that most of us have in our current toolbox, our emotional toolbox, are control and collapse. Right.

Control is I rip your face off, collapse as I get the heck out of Dodge. And those seem to be the things that we reach for when we don't know what else to do.

So the key is we need to. We're going to help you expand your toolbox.

So I just want to teach you about defensiveness in this episode so that you can start to see it and spot it for yourself. And I also want to give you some of the self talk that goes on that perpetuates the behavior of defensiveness.

And if you're in your car or wherever, you're listening, number one.

Thank you.

And you're saying, oh, gosh, Thomas, Dasie and Brooke, I'm not a defensive person. I think I'm just going to go ahead and log off. Just indulge us and have a little fun and just go ahead and listen anyway, because you know what? We all. None of us get the hall pass. I'm lovingly saying that, because myself included, all of us, we're all. We partake. We all do.

In fact, on my worksheets, where we're exploring defensive nature, there's the header, an instruction that says, go ahead and mark all these that apply and that you know you do. And then the next line says, and if you feel like you do none of these, go ahead and just start with circling number four, which is denial. Let's just begin there and see what happens. Because as a human being, we all have that thing I do, or defensive postures that we do when we don't know what else to do. That's very human of us. So to say that you don't have any is to say that you are defensively rooted in denial. So let's just get that one right out of the gate. If you're unwilling to look and you're unwilling to explore, then that's a defensive posture in and of itself. So let's back up a little bit here. There's a couple of highlights that I'm going to say again before we get into defensive posturing, but. But not. But I just want you to make sure that you understand these things because this is where we start to think down a rabbit hole that doesn't really take us anywhere. Completing a task is not equal to emotional connection. It simply creates a foundation of consistency so that I can risk with you some of the emotional experiences that I want to develop in our relationship. It's really important that you distinguish those two things because we're going to often offset our lack of emotional IQ by the things I'm doing, the bills I'm paying, the tasks I'm taking care of in our household. And you need to understand those two things are in different camps, and they come in pairs oftimes. Okay. So keep an eye out for that. I also want you to understand that emotional connection comes from sharing ourselves with each other, our feelings, our day, our dreams, and the things that I personally struggle with. That's where emotional connection happens. Not from talking about the tasks of the day, but from sharing the emotional experiences of my day. And sometimes we have a really difficult time wrapping our head around that.

Quick question for the people who are like, I don't know how to do that. Could you give one example of how a person who is uncomfortable talking about their emotions could begin sharing the emotional parts of their day?

The emotional parts of your day would be, I personally experienced this. I felt like this today. I noticed this. For me today. I'm desiring this for myself today. And if you come into the better love class, we have these conversations all the time. And all of our clients get a feeling Will that helps us begin to translate our own thoughts, feelings and emotions into a language that I can then understand myself. And you start to see in relationships, that's prerequisite to knowing how to create emotional connection. And guess what? It takes practice. If it's not something that you generally come from an environment growing up that you are allowed to share your personal perspective, opinions, points of view, or emotional state, then this is something that truly is foreign to you. And for those of us who have grown up in environments like that, we can't figure out why you can't just tell me how you feel. Like that's maddening.

So following up on Brooks question, how about give us an. Could you give us please an example of. We always say don't sacrifice the circumstances for the experience. So how about if I was to start it down, the task sharing of my day, how could you expand that or move that into the more experience experiential part? Like you understand what I just.

Yeah. So if I come home and I said, oh, Harry really ticked me off.

And he did make the coffee correctly in the break room.

And he did. I don't, I don't know how many times we got to go around with this. I've told him a thousand times that you're telling me about the circumstances of your working workplace. And if I were listening to you and I wanted to connect with you in a more emotional nature, I would say, gosh, tell me what that was like for you. Help me understand why that gets you so spun up. Where do you go when that happens and what do you think you're going to do to fix it or solve it? I would engage with you about that. So you're telling me more about your personal experience than you are about Harry or Fred.

So I guess for those of us that get. When we get stuck or whatever, just remember, I think that's a really a good super tip is we can ask, ask to be invited into someone's feeling part of whatever they're sharing. Right. If it's more of a task, share.

Where this shows up in relationships often is around the kids parenting. This is a great place where somebody comes home and somebody is spun up about the kids and about the frustration and what happened. And I'm saying little Susie dumped her bowl of cereal and I had to clean it up. And then the dog threw up on the floor. And then, and I'm Going down this litany of logistics that have emotionally spun me up. And my next question would be, wow, that sounds really rough. Instead of going, oh, you always yell at the kids, and you really need to stop that now. I just feel negated. And now I feel like you're not seeing my side of the experience. Instead, I could say, gosh, what was so difficult about that for you? How did you get so spun up? What do you need for me to support you in this moment? Then let's sit down, and I want to hear what your experience was for the day. Like, where did you go here? What's your experience? I'm thinking of yesterday morning, and I'm looking for a very specific outfit because I like to imagine what I'm going to wear before I get in the shower because I really don't spend a lot of time or I like to spend a lot of time in what I'm going to wear. And I got this idea of what I'm going to wear already mapped out in my mind. And then when I go to get it, it's not my closet. And I start to spin up, and I'm getting frustrated, and I can't believe this, and I'm frustrated with myself. And the more I spin, guess what? The more I can't find it, and the more frustrated I get. So now I'm ripping my closet apart, thinking, gd, I know it's in here somewhere, and I'm throwing the clothes out of there. Now you come in and you see me like, and the closet's all tossed and the shoes, and I'm swearing up a storm, and it's, geez, what are you trying to do here? You didn't say, what the hell are you doing? You're a crazy person. You know what? What's going on here? What do you need? How can I help you? Why don't we just take a break here and let me pour you a cup of coffee and let's talk about this for a minute. I'm sure it's going to all be fine. And, babe, you do this a lot. Like, he has very specific things, and he puts them in very specific places not to pull the rug out from any who's laughing, because he knows it's true. And then when they go missing, it's like, where's my beanie? And it's like, the world has to stop until we find the beanie or the pair of shorts. And I guess I'm picking up some of your tendencies now, though I'm sharing this and If I were to go, I'll pull it together. That's no big deal. But instead, we've been able to support each other and say, okay, honey, we're gonna find. It's gonna turn up. It's gonna be okay. What do you think's gonna happen if you don't find it?

You know, I'm having a fun memory I gotta share. One time. Not at this house, at our other house. I was looking for. Yeah, I wanted something that keeps my bald head warm when I was out.

When I.

Back when I was bicycle riding all the time, and I could. I knew I'd wash it, put it away, couldn't find it. So we. I was tearing the house up, and so it was maybe an hour or two later, and you came down the stairs and you said, look what I found. And then you ran up the stairs like. Like you were holding my beanie hostage.

Come and find it.

Jeez. We get spun up about crazy stuff.

And if we negate those moments with our partners, it's going to escalate it. Not because of what's actually happened, but because of the fact you totally negated my emotional experience. And that's a tough one for us to learn and work with. Right? We think that by shutting it down, I'm trying to help you let go of it. And actually, just the opposite of true. If I step in with you and say, gosh, tell me why you're so spun up. What can I do to help you with this? That must be really tough or, that must be a really unrattling experience for you, honey, when you can't find your beanie and Stacy can't find her dress, then we don't escalate it. We actually de escalate it. And again, that's defensiveness. That's defensiveness. So what keeps us from sharing ourselves and finding solutions for getting our needs met is defensiveness and manipulation. And so we get stuck there. And sometimes the more I dig my heels in, the more I'm there. And I set up, literally, an emotional prison for myself and everybody's banging around, and it sounds a lot like. You tell you see me first and you, like, validate where I'm coming from. You admit that I pay the bills, take care of the kids, take out the trash, and do all of this for you. And then maybe I'll hear your side of things, but not until you give me this. And the other person is saying that, too. I'm not going to give you what you want until you see my side of things. And now we're in what I call a power struggle of defensiveness. And so it's. Who's going to say, all right, I'm going to get off it for a minute. I'm going to let go of the defensive posture enough to hear your side of it. And then I want to turn for you to see mine.

It's like we're weaponizing our frustrations.

What we really want is validation for the emotional experience I'm having. And I want there to be a validity in it. And I want you to see and give it validity. Not only that, permission to feel the way I feel. That's really what we're looking for. So if we go back to somebody who's been a pleaser for a number of years and they put up with a lot of egregious behavior unknowingly, sometimes these things play out and one person is taking charge and control and the other one happily comes along. And I think, man, this is a great thing. This is a great relationship, right? Until one day when somebody wakes up and goes, wait, I've got to do some things that I want to take charge of and I want to be in control of. And then we don't. It switches the whole dynamic of the relationship and we don't know what to do at that moment in time. And so now I want you to pay for being in charge and taking control and doing it your way for the last 10 or 15 or 20 years. And if somebody's got to pay, we're all going to pay. Just know that's how this works, whether it makes sense or not, or whether we feel entitled or not. And I can't get to a place of improving my life with another person that I'm co creating with if all I simply do is now take on their role of control and expect them to be submissive like I was. We're just doing a switcheroo, okay? And we're both still stuck in defensiveness. So here's some signs that you're actually stuck in defensiveness to help you out and just take a look. And I just. I want you to realize we all do it. I want you to take a breath and embrace it. Because when we can make it a part of what we do as human beings, then we can work with it until it's something that I deny I do, or as part of the human experience. It's going to keep me from being able to influence it or grow it or give it an upgrade. I'm going to be stuck in it instead. And it's really important that you understand that. So I'm just going to invite you to take a breath and realize, even if you identify that you're doing these things right now, it doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with you. It doesn't mean that you're a crazy person. It doesn't mean you're an awful person or a bad person. It just means you're a human being and we're human first. And then start tacking on your titles. And all humans have defensive behaviors, and we're going to forever and always have defensive behaviors. And our opportunity here is to embrace them, to understand them, and to understand when it's at play so we can do something different. We can actually make a conscious choice to do something different there. Okay? So take a breath. If you see it in your personal, you see it in yourself. It doesn't mean we start labeling them as narcissists or codependents or attachment disordered, all the many wonderful labels that we have. Because when we start down that path, it just entitles me to mistreat them more, not less, not make progress to a better place for us collectively. And yet again, that's just another place of defensive posture. So here's some things, and maybe I'll help you share these with me, babe. Here's some things that I want you to keep an eye out and that are signs that you're absolutely stuck in defensiveness, low trust. You're no willing, no longer willing to risk with another person. You feel like you have to keep yourself safe and protected, and you can't count on the other person to be there for you. Okay?

A high blame with the past.

Yeah, you. You can't let the past go. There's a lot of blame that you're pulling up and you just keep pounding on it. And you're sure that if we get to the point of who's to blame for this, we're going to finally make it through. And I want you to understand now, that's just offensiveness.

Alienation.

Alienation is I push you away or I pull myself away. I refuse to engage with you until X, y and Z happens.

Threats and fear are used to solve problems.

I'm going to solve this problem by threatening you, leveraging you, telling you that you'd better do this or else. And our favorite detonator nuclear button is, you better do this or else. I'm out of here. I'm divorcing you. This relationship is over, and you'll never see me again or you'll never see the kids again or I'll drain our bank account. And that will be it for you. Those are all signs that you're stuck in defensiveness.

This high anxiety.

High anxiety means the tension and the walking on eggshells has gotten so high in our relationship, we don't know what to do. I'm absolutely stuck in defensiveness. We both are probably in that moment.

Emotional outbursts.

Yeah, this one's hard because I try and keep it together and want to do a good job on my side of the equation. And so I just don't say a lot. And I try and go along with and put up with, and then I just can't one day. And my emotional outbursts are absolutely ugly and egregious. And I say and do a whole bunch of things that I wish I hadn't. But the truth is I feel a lot better when I have them. Right. I feel like I can breathe again. And I finally said what I wanted to say, just not in a very good way and certainly not in a way that it could be heard or that we could actually make progress to a new place. This is also where holes get punched on the wall. Things get tossed across the room.

It gets ugly here, summarized in one wor. Kaboom.

Yeah. And it's difficult to rebuild from those because we do and say things that are egregious. And really it just sacrifices the emotional safety in our relationship. So it prevents us from being able to rebuild. And we spend a lot of time in pain with emotional outbursts as well, because there's the cool off period. And then we got to think about how we're going to reenter. And that probably takes seven, eight more days. And then there's the nine, 10, 11, 12, 13 days of trying to get over the awkwardness and reconnect and extend an olive branch. And then that might not go so well. So there's maybe another week or two where we try and forgive that one and just move on. And so before you know it, two or three months have passed by and we're still dealing with that thing that happened. Like Tom couldn't find his beanie and Stacy couldn't find her dress. We had an emotional outburst about that. We forgot about why we were even arguing in the first place. And three months of our life have gone by while we've been suffering in pain. That's what happens. Hostility, like emotional outbursts. But I get entitled to be angry with you, disrespect you, push you away withholding information. Yeah. I'm not going to tell you how I feel anymore. So that's going to sever our connection emotionally. I'm not going to tell you what I'm planning to do with our money or what's going on with me and the kids. I just start withholding all kinds of information with you and expect you to be okay with that because I'm entitled to punish you after all.

And then there's everybody's favorite denial.

Denial we already talked about. If you don't think any of this applies to you, let's just begin there. I don't want to look at it. It makes me uncomfortable. And that's true for all of us. Having to look at these things is a big, courageous moment. And so I applaud all of you who are taking this journey with us. It's big. It absolutely is big.

Mistreating, cheating, and lying are justified behavior.

We start making up all kinds of stories as to why I'm entitled to mistreat you, cheat on you, lie behind your back because I'm hurting and I don't know how to tell you. And I'm now stuck in defensiveness, feelings.

Of entitlement because of all you have done, slash been through in the past.

I'm entitled to have you do or say or be these things because of all you've done to me on the other side. Yeah, that's defensiveness.

Perfect segue into sarcasm.

Yeah, sarcasm. I love to get sarcastic and jokingly poke at you and make fun of you. And that just means I'm uncomfortable and I don't know what to say, so I'm going to turn it into a joke.

I don't know if this one needs a whole lot of additional explanation. Defend your position instead of listening.

Yeah, I don't want to listen to what you have to say because I'm too invested in you understanding where I'm coming from. And that's where I'm going to stay stuck until I get what it is I want from you. Other. I don't realize that the other person doesn't know what to give you because I don't understand what's going on for you. They're too busy trying to get what they want and need on the other side of the fence.

So how's the continued Hide your own mistakes and point out the mistakes of others.

Yeah, it's really funny. This is. This kind of dovetails off of the one we just talked about. I want grace when I do a very similar thing for myself because I Feel like you should totally understand where I was coming from when I did it. It was not malice, it was not of pure intent. Instead, it was something that I intentionally didn't mean to do. And yet when you do it, I'm sure it was full of harm and ill intent and nefarious behavior. And I get to attack you for doing the very same thing. And these things go back and forth in our conversations with each other. And when you stand back and have the privilege and honor that I do, you start to see it's actually quite comical because you're both asking for very similar things, you're both frustrated with very similar things. But what you're needing to move through it is different. And nobody's listening to the other. And so it never gets us to the place that we need to go in order to make progress, truly, that everyone can buy into and everyone can be a part of and everyone can get those needs met. We're stuck in our defensive postures instead. So here's the self talk that I also want to give you to just explain, explore. Are you stuck in defensiveness? Because our behavior absolutely follows the self talk that we perpetuate inside of ourselves. There is no other way for that to go. So thoughts of thinking that lends us to be stuck in our defensive posture is things like, this shouldn't be happening. This isn't okay to be happening. I can't handle this. This is way over the top for me. I can't handle this. Or my favorite, this is unfair. This is so unfair. This is unbalanced. I shouldn't have to do this. I can't handle this. I shouldn't be asked to do this. I shouldn't be put in this position. That's all self talk. That's going to create defensive behavior. I shouldn't have to deal with. This is a very common one. And this one comes up a lot too. Only a crazy person would see it the way you're seeing it right now. Like, you must be crazy and off your rocker for doing and saying what you're doing. And I don't know what to do with you. I don't want to deal with you. I'm out. Thoughts of, they're out to get me. They don't care about me. How dare they? So stupid. I'm getting very judgy about what it is they're doing and what they're saying. And I can even escalate this to a place where what I'm really saying inside of myself is they're evil and Wrong. Like, they are so out to get me, and I'm demonizing them at this point in time. And that's just a sign that, again, your behavior is going to be rooted in defensiveness. And then my favorite. Oh, they are the ill. They are a narcissist. They are all of these labels that we start putting in there. And unfortunately, it really doesn't help us when we can label it. Like I've already said. I'll say it again. It just entitles us to take more of our frustration out on them. Okay? And we feel entitled to punish them. We feel entitled to push them away until they figure out what it is we need and what it is we want. And I just need you to understand that's manipulation. That's not going to take us anywhere good either. And so maybe the voice that's happening in your head is, oh, my gosh, okay, and what to do then. You've just taken away all my tools. You've just taken away everything I know how to do. And I'm just going to say, don't panic, because most of us are left with this set of tools in this line of thinking. That's what breaks our relationships down, much to the heartbreak of ourselves and each other. You look like you want to say something here.

No, I mean, I just. I know I've said this before. This is just an area that is really takes a courage to truly to be able to turn towards ourself and see where we might be showing up in this way. I like to say it's one of those big gulp moments. But it's going to lead to tremendous new actualization for us and the depth of who we are and our ability to have much better relationships.

Let me just give you some of the benefits of stepping out of defensiveness. Because now that we've got you mired in it and you're going, oh, I do that. I say, oh, I. All right, remember what we said. Just take a breath. We all do it. And this probably are the skills that you've acquired and become masterful at in navigating relationships. That's true for more than 95% of us as human beings. Like, these are the tools that we have to rudder through relationships. And we start to see and understand now why we don't have more examples of great relationships. Because it's going to require new skills to help us and our defensive behavior not stop it. You're never going to stop it. You just can catch it and work through it and understand what's happening and make different choices quicker, sooner. So something that used to totally derail things for a long period of time become things that you can quickly and efficiently move through. Like right now. So that we can spend more of our relationship and time together in good moments instead of working through the inevitable conflicts and ups and downs that are sure to come. Because we are going to get plugged in as human beings. I really want to emphasize that like defensiveness is a part of everybody's relationship. It's going to be because we're dealing with humans. That does not mean that you can't acquire new behavior and skills to see it and to work with it quickly, efficiently and effectively. And if you're willing to do that, then what is available to you is the ability to take responsibility for circumstances in your own life and stop feeling like you. You've got to put your own life on hold until your partner does. X, Y and Z. You're going to be able to seek and respond with thoughtfulness and skill instead of continuing to escalate the situation which we're all very familiar with where no good ever comes of it. We just exhaust ourselves and find ourselves in breakdown mode again and again. And every round we go gets become it becomes more egregious than the other. We're going to be able to use skills to actually respond in a better way and know how to navigate through this defensive posture. Whether it's you that's doing it or your partner that's doing it. You gain the ability to hear difficult things and seek to not simply react. That's huge. You're going to be able to find a place of mutual benefit when you're in times of defensiveness so that you can gain benefits that not only benefit you, but your partner.

That's the co creation solutions rather than something or someone to blame.

Yeah, Real solutions. We can actually put the card on the table and we can actually solve what we're up to.

Shares their shares their perspective and allows others to do the same. And then most importantly, no force.

Yeah. That I'm not leveraging you to try and understand you. Because those two things won't happen. If I'm going to leverage you and manipulate you, the other person's going to get defensive. So there's no way we're going to get to a place of understanding. If that's the game we're playing. The understanding that we need to actually solve the problem will continue to elude us. Okay. So that's a big one too.

Can be convicted in their opinions but not rigid about personal desires and interests.

Yeah, I can feel really impassioned about something, but it doesn't mean that I'm going to lay down ultimatums with you. I might choose to do them without you, but it doesn't mean I have to lay down ultimatums for you. But I can voice those opinions and those places of conviction. I'm just not going to get rigid about how I think it needs to play out.

Can't consider what works and what doesn't, even when it's something they desire.

Yeah, this is a big one. I really want this, but I'm able to set that aside for a moment and explore with you what might work and not work about this with us. And that could be financial decisions, that could be decision with the kids, that could be all kinds of decisions that we have to come to and work in unison with as a couple. And if I don't have the ability to set my passion aside for a minute and listen to some of your concerns, we're going to fight about it instead.

Seeks to understand others points of view.

Yeah, I understand that I have a point of view and I understand that my partner has a point of view and they're different and that's okay. And they don't have to feel the same way I feel about it. It doesn't mean I have to change the way I feel about it.

It open to feedback even when it's tough to hear.

Yeah, feedback is difficult sometimes when we have something that we feel impassioned about. But we always close the door to getting better and improving and seeing things that others might see in us. If I close the door to feedback, and I will say this, how the feedback is delivered is everything. Oft times we think I'm just giving you feedback when really what I'm doing is minimizing you, criticizing you, belittling you. Right. I'm manipulating the heck out of you and I'm going just giving you feedback. The heck you are. You're not giving me feedback, you're criticizing me. Now I want you to see in this moment, they could be attempting to give you feedback and not know how to give it to you. And the truth is, you could also be very defensive about what it is they're bringing up. And so then you can see the defensiveness that's playing out on, not just on one side, but both.

Understanding conflict is a normal, natural part of life.

Yes. Sometimes when we get emotionally plugged in, we think that there's something wrong with me, something wrong with my relationship or something wrong with my partner because we haven't yet been exposed to the paradigm or the reality that there are problems and challenges in everybody's relationship. Nobody gets a hall pass here. There's going to be conflict in every single relationship.

This one here is what you, what you're able to do when you understand the art of a difficult conversation and can share themselves calmly and directly, even when it comes to difficult topics.

And if I can't share myself calmly and directly, I tap out until I can. I don't allow myself to say and do things that I'm not going to feel good about on the backside, even if I get what I want. Because I understand that when that happens, I pay the ultimate price because I feel terrible about the person I am showing up as. Even if I get away with selling it or manipulating you to get the quasi what I think I want, there's a place where I just feel terrible about me. And that's the thing that's going to haunt me at night.

Accepts responsibility for consequences of their actions.

Yeah, it's okay. I can take a look at that. Because if I can admit that I'm a jerk, if I can admit that I escalated that and said and did some things that I didn't mean, then we can all start the process of moving on. Until I do that, my person is going to have a difficult time letting it go. And quite frankly, I personally am going to have a really difficult time letting it go. It's going to ruminate inside of me.

Communication is for deeper levels of understanding.

Yeah, that's it. It's a hard period. And what we use communication for is often weapons.

Comes from a caring attitude for all this is big.

You're stuck in defensiveness. If I'm just wanting you to give me what it is I want and I don't really care how it impacts. Impacts you. I don't really care what's required of you. Just give me what I want and then I'll make it good for you is the idea there. And that's defensive nature. And we can't go that direction and expect things to go well.

Practices relationship skills daily in pursuit of mastery.

That's important. Like we don't ever get our trophy in the mail. We don't ever get the hall pass that we're done and we've arrived here. Like relationships are going to constantly and consistently react, require our practice and our dedication to the mastery of it if we want to be good lovers. And that would be true with our physical health, our financial health as well. Right. There's not a place where you can just set it on the shelf and go, okay, we got this handled. I've learned and done everything I need to do. I guess we're just going to be happy and ride off into the sun.

I was going to say they forgot that line in the fairy tale.

What's that?

Person meets person and they live how happily ever after. But not about.

No.

But as long as you continue to practice your relationships for the long as you're in that one better.

It's time we understand that there is a happily ever after. But there's going to be some things you're going to have to navigate along the way. That's the reality of it.

And listens.

Well, yeah, you got to be able to listen. You got to be able to get off your agenda for a minute to actually listen. And what we find and what I find in my practice is that we're terrible at listening. What we're listening for is you giving me what it is I'm looking for. And if you're not going to do that, then I'm not listening to you and I don't want to hear what you have to say. And I'm going to, I'm going to manipulate you. I'm going to shut you down. I'm going to get defensive. I'm going to do a whole bunch of other things instead of listen to you. And yet we never acquire that understanding that we so desperately need in order to move forward. Thoughts inside of ourselves that show that we are in a place of trying or attempting to be non defensive and becoming mastery. Master. Free mastery. Masterful.

Masterful.

Masterful at skills are conversations inside of us or self talk and dialogue. I don't like this, but I can handle it. We'll figure this out. I'm not quite sure how, but we're going to figure this out. I'm going to focus on asking questions to gain understanding because I know that that's going to give me the answers I'm looking for. I'm going to set my agenda down for a minute and just attempt to listen to what, what's happening for my person on the other side and then I'll make sure that they hear my side too. Right. I have the ability to advocate for myself. It's okay to take a time out. I know how to navigate these things. These are all self talk that comes from practicing and getting better and mastering relationship skills. And I think that kind of gives you an idea of the differences and where we come from as human beings in regards to being stuck in defensiveness and not being stuck in defensiveness. And I want you to know this is a part of a class. This material is taken from a class that we just taught to our better loved club members on our Monday night classes. And then we break out and we practice doing what we're talking about. Because defensiveness is not going to be something that we get better at without practicing. There's two components. There's learning it and seeing it and understanding it and understanding me and my special flavor. And then there's the practice of doing it differently. And I promise you defensiveness is going to run your life and run your relationships. If this is not something that you focus on and get better at seeing and choosing and navigating through, it just is the reality of it. Right? And nobody's doing it wrong. Everybody's doing the very best they know how. But we just. This elusive nature of defensiveness will continue to run your life and your relationship until we double down and get a handle on it. So if by chance you're in a place right now where because of this conversation you can see you are stuck in defensive posturing and behavior and you and your partner both are. It only takes one to step out and transform. Transform. Thank you. I'm having really. I need you to finish my words today, please. To transform this experience into something different. Then you need to come into the Better Love Club. You need to join us there. That would be a really great place for you to begin your journey in regards to becoming masterful at relationships skills. And you can get started really easily. And until the end of February, we are offering you a two week free trial essential plan.

It's a no brainer. Come in, check it all out. Marinate in it. There's all kinds of things that you can experience. You don't even need to come to the live class if that doesn't sound good for you, because we record all the live classes and upload them inside our portal along with all of our other curriculum and downloads and videos. And it's just a wonderful accumulation really of everything we've done as a family for over the last nine years.

Yeah. So take advantage of it. And you've got until the end of February to do that before that two week window of a trial is gone. So what the heck, you got nothing to lose and everything to gain by just exploring what's there and available for you. Okay, so that's a wrap for defensiveness. Anything anybody wants to add?

No, I just invite everybody to Take a nice pause. Let's just go right into a little bit of the foul the fun. We're going to take a pivot and we do every single show because this is a huge place. Maybe this could be a really good place for you to help you ease off that defensiveness posture by having a little bit of fun.

And I'm glad you said that because I was thinking about a follow the fun for this episode and I thought I want to speak to the person who does want to get off it. I to want to speak to the person about. Okay, I hear you. I want to go in a different direction. What's the next best step for me to do that? I have it for you. It's right here in the Follow the fun. Write a note. Write a note to your special person and a note that says something like this. I know lately I've been a real fill in the blank. Right. This is you getting off defensiveness. You know what? I know lately I've been a real.

Son of a gun.

Yeah. However, I just realized I'm taking it out on you. And right now I just want you to know I fill in the blank. And here's some suggestions. I love you, I miss you. I appreciate you. I long for you, I desire you. I want you to know you matter to me. And then still it with a kiss or a heart or your signature or your pet name, whatever that might be that reminds everybody. Oh, that's right. I do care about this relationship. I do care about this person. I do want this to go well. And you're going to feel so much better. And you know what? Regardless of how your partner responds, they're going to feel so much better too, because they're probably just as fearful about the fact that you are, that you don't care that you don't want this, that they don't matter to you. You know, that you don't want to hear their side of it. And so this little note is going to set you both free. So take the leap of faith. You be the one to say, okay, let's get off this defensive thing and let's try and go in a different direction.

It touches on the three things that we talk about all the time. Everyone wants to be appreciated, everyone wants to be acknowledged, and everyone wants to know that this relationship matters. So you've hit all three of them right there in that short little all the fun.

And that note can be a special little note card. It could be a post it note, it could be note on their favorite cereal Box. It could be literally posted anywhere that might get a sense of, oh, wow, you took the time to actually think about me today. We were fighting, and I wasn't quite sure how to recover from that. And yet you just stepped in and did it. This happens in the romantic side of relationships where I feel like I really love you and I'm too afraid to tell you that I really love you because I don't want to be the only one in love with you alone. And so everybody's feeling it, but nobody's going to say, guess what? I love you. Somebody's got to in order for this to get turned around and go in a different direction. So why not it be you, the person who's listening to my voice right now? I would say you are the person who can do this. So I'll make sure that this little framework is on the show notes. A little framework that you can just fill in the blanks. Don't miss this opportunity to get started on a better foot and to get yourself out of defensiveness. That would be the best piece of fun I could possibly give you right now. So as we wrap up this show today on defensiveness, we always wrap it up with a song because I feel like sometimes music can teach us and cause us to feel things that word words can't. And today I've chosen. She's a fabulous artist, in my humble opinion. And she has a new song that's called Trust Fall. And the words on the song, I think, really highlight what it is we're experiencing when we're trying to get out of defensiveness. And basically she says, we're running out of time we're hiding from the light we're just too scared to fight for what we want tonight so close your eyes and leave it all behind Go where love is on our side It's a trust fall, baby and it really is a trust fall, baby to decide. We're going to get off it and we're going to go in a different direction. But I want you to know you actually have the ability to do it, and you have the ability to do it right now. Don't miss it. You can listen to this song on our website or in our Spotify playlist. The Love Shack playlist. I always get this wrong.

Love Shack light.

Play with.

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen.

Just go to our website. It's so much easier there. You click the little button. It takes you right there. You can listen to all of them. There's a hundred plus of them now, huh? Yeah. All right. That's it for this week's episode of Love Shack Live. Thank you so much for being here with us. And if by chance you need support or you're in a place where you have questions about your specific situation, don't hesitate to go to our website. You can schedule a clarity call. You can reach out, you can connect with us. We're here to support you and cheer you on in any way that we possibly can. And if by chance you have a conversation or a topic that you would like us to talk about here in the Love Shack, please don't hesitate to request those, too. We want to talk about the things that matter most to you. All right, I think that's a wrap. Thanks again for being here with us. We look forward to seeing you next time here in the Love Shack. Bye for now.

Okay, everybody, time to go. We gotta close the doors to the Love Shack for this week. You don't have to go home, but you can't stay here. Come back next week, though, and join us for another edition of Love Shack Live with Tom and Stacey Bartley.