#119: The Invisible Burden: How the Mental Load Affects Relationships and What to Do About It

It's a conversation and it's approached like this. Hey, you know what? I'm realizing I'm at my limit. I can't continue to carry these tasks and the mental load any longer.

Hey, thanks for coming. Welcome to the Love Shack.

Hey, welcome to the Love Shack. It's a little place where we get to get together, explore fresh, perfect perspectives and eavesdrop on juicy conversations to discover the things that really matter while having a little bit of fun along the way. This is episode number 119. Need help from your partner but can't get any satisfaction? Listen up, because help is on the way. That's what this episode is all about. I'm Stacy Bartley and I'm the host of Love Shack Live. And I'm here with my co host Tom, and our wonderful Brookie, we call her Brown in the background. So she'll be joining us on the show to add questions and comments. She absolutely takes care of the comments and the conversations from social media. And this is one that right now we have a lot of followers asking for, so we wanted to serve it up and deliver.

Yes, this is. I can't. It's hard for me to remember something that has, you know, prompted a lot of dialogue. How about that? It's, you know, a lot of, lot of couples, a lot of people are in this difficult position and not really sure what to do. And again, this is the whole point of the show. So thank you for your comments and shares and this is why we're here, to be of service and leave you with some practical steps that are actionable and you can put into your life right now.

So this is actually more common than you think. I see it in my practice, my private practice, often and typically there's one person in the relationship that knows and cares for the details of the household. This person will know everyone's favorites, whether we're talking ice cream or cereal, along with what brands are preferred, the current amount on hand, and where the best place to get more is. They track this not only for food, but household items, chores, clothing, play dates, after school, activities, essentially anything and anyone who comes in and out of their home. All goes well until they hit their mental and emotional limits. At this point, they're spent frustrated and even downright angry about it. Even though no one has probably asked them to carry this mental load. It was a necessary role of household operations they have slipped into and it rapidly accumulated over time. Commonly, this household role is women, simply because it's a well rehearsed narrative, religiously, societally, that women care for the children in the home and men provide and protect. These roles worked well until women entered the workforce and sought to have careers outside of the home. However, when this happened, there was not a thought of a redivision of household operations. Instead, it was expected that work outside of the home would simply be added to the care of the children and anything else that was necessary to run the household. I do want to mention that there are men who carry this role for their family as well. One partner has a natural desire or knack for being more of the caretaker of the children in the home, and the other commonly wrapped up in a career or providing, whether male or female. It will only be a matter of time before the caretaker, the person who is carrying the household load, will hit their limits. And from their perspective, they cannot wrap their head around why their partner can't see and understand what they could simply do to help out. And then, and this is where I would love to have that like dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun Music because what happens is they literally begin to believe that their partner doesn't care about how this is affecting them. They don't put in as much effort as they believe they should, and even when they do attempt to help out, they screw up the details and ask too many GD questions and the person is aggravated about this. Like, come on man, how come you don't know this? This is the point in the story where the care, the caretaker, the person who's carrying the mental load, will lash out, blame, criticize, minimize the efforts of the other partner and begin to feel that they have good reason to do so. After all, we say, look at all I'm doing to care for us. And you're doing this all on purpose because it's obvious to me that you should know what needs to be done and yet you refuse. So now when I see you on social media, playing video games, taking a nap, or doing anything else that seems simply pleasurable, I'm going to blow a frigging gasket because I don't feel like I get those opportunities, those types of pleasures or downtimes simply because you won't kick in and help. And the partner who was just punished for or cut off from intimacy for not knowing what to do, or, let's be honest, failing at their attempts to help out begins to pull further away and help less and less and less over time. Handling this dilemma from a place of blaming and criticism will not provide you with the help and support that is so desired in the end. And Then the question is asked, well, what the hell am I supposed to do here, Stace? You know, I'm. I'm at my wit's end. This was a wonderful question that was asked on our social media channel, and this was what we said. So if we're completing most of the tasks and feeling completely drained, how would you suggest for me to be more emotionally present? What do I do now? And this is often a dilemma that the majority of couples find. And so there was a couple of things that I wanted to point out today, and we're going to have some dialogue about this, and then I promise I'm going to give you some takeaways both for typically the woman slash caretaker, but not always, as well as the men slash providers and the household, because that's not always men either. The first thing I want to talk about and point out to you is you can't punish a person enough to get the help and support you need. This is only going to sacrifice the emotional safety necessary to truly solve your problem. And this is what criticism, blaming, belittling. You know, I get you're frustrated. I get you're tired. And here's the thing. As far as humans go, we're going to cross the limits of what we can tolerate long after we needed the help and support. Like, we're going to try and hang on there and do it for as long as we possibly can. And then usually we've pushed it way past the point of needing help and addressing the issue. And so then we are frustrated. We are lashing out. We don't know what else to do. Which brings me to the second point that I want to point out here. Your partner is truly, and I say this with all the sincerity in my heart, they are truly unaware of all that you do and want attack to feel like you don't value the contribution that they're currently making. It's like this. We as human beings have the ability to completely be unaware of many things that go on around us. And if my focus and my attention, this little reticular activator in the back of my brain is focused on paying the bills, making the money, mowing the grass, doing the household chores that I think I should do, they literally are completely unaware of what brand of ice cream is in the freezer, what the kids wear to school, who the teacher is, what needs to be done. As far as, like, timing goes.

This.

They literally don't even think about it. And now that they've probably had more than a year or 2 or 5 or 10 not understanding all of this and what it takes to run the household, they literally have a difficult time wrapping their head around the fact that I don't know what to do. And when they say that, let's be honest, I've been in the situation myself personally, when I you don't know what to do. I just want to scream because I'm like, do you not see? Do you not understand? Do you not know? And they're not going to want to say yes because then they feel like there's something wrong with them or that they've done it wrong or that they should be in a different place than what they are. But the reality is they don't get it. It doesn't make sense to them. They're unaware. And you've done such a beautiful job of taking care of it. They haven't had to be aware of it up until now. Remember, we typically fall in these roles because of religious or societal norms, but usually the who likes to take care of the household or has an acumen for it or wants to be involved in more of the nurturing caretaking of the children for personal reasons steps into this role and before they know it, they're way over taxed and they don't know how to come back from it. Because the reality is you were never asked to do this role. You stepped into it because it was something that was intrinsic and important to you. And so now we have to have a conversation about it. Next, I want you to know that the validation of your situation will not solve your problem. There's lots of quizzes out there on the Internet that you can take that will go, Yep, sure enough, you're carrying the mental load of the household and I've just got to ask you, what is that going to do for you other than go see, I'm right, I'm entitled. I get to take it out on them again. I get to make them wrong and I'm doing it right again. And I want you to know that's so dangerous to put your relationship in that space because you're going to sacrifice the very important, necessary piece of safety that will be required in order to turn this around.

Let me ask you a question there, okay, so the, the people who are in this position, a lot of times they're silent, like you said, they're just grunting through it and they, they're not taking it out on their partner because they know that they shouldn't, but they're getting to the point where it's probably going to happen. Because they're about to reach the limit. How can they express these frustrations in a maybe I'm getting ahead of myself. But you can't have these feelings of being super overwhelmed and super frustrated and super over taxed and overworked and being like, God, I'm gonna scream. And you know, say you did take that test and you don't want to yell at your partner about it, but it does give you a little bit of validation because you're like, yes, I knew I was the default partner and mental load partner. What do you do after you take that test and get those results instead of yelling at your partner saying, I knew I was right. Why don't you ever validate me? Why don't you tell me these things?

It's a conversation and it's approached like this, hey, you know what? I'm realizing I'm at my limit. I can't continue to carry these tasks and the mental load any longer. We need to schedule a time where we can come down and just look at this and divide. And I'm going to give you some tips, I promise, in the bottom. But we're going to divide and look at what needs to be done. And then I would love it if we could redivide these things. Okay, now there's going to be some interesting things that start to pop up there that we're going to talk about here in a minute, but that's how I would approach the conversation. It's not banging on them to do more. It's not chastising them for what it is you think that they're attempting to do because they're not getting it right, you know, and they don't do it in the way that you do it. And it's not about you not being able to express yourself. It's about being productive in your, your steps forward. Because ofttimes what we do is we exhaust ourselves in this place without realizing it's breaking us down and it's taking us further from where it is we ultimately want to go because we don't realize how to do it and how to do it in a productive manner. Which is going to bring me to the next point that I want to make. Not only is not, you know, is validation going to not solve your situation, I want you to understand something. When it comes to emotion, whether you are emotionally upset or emotionally available, both require effort and energy. And guess which one gets depleted faster if I'm in an emotional state, the upset. So we go to upset. And I get it because you haven't known how to handle this or how to have this conversation or how to set it up. And I spend years there and I'm exhausted and I'm depleted. And then I say, but you can be emotionally available and productive if we knew the direction in order to go, and it wouldn't require as much effort and energy to handle it. And you're more likely to find a solution that is going to help you take the next step forward. And so hanging out in these places of emotional upset for long periods of time because we don't know what to do literally creates more of a problem, more of an issue, more of a breakdown. And then, let's be honest, we feel entitled to cut off intimacy, cut off emotional connection, cut off engagement until they what, get a clue.

Well, and I, a lot of times I think it's not even a conscious choice to cut it off. Like, a lot of women are not saying, I'm not going to have sex with you on purpose. Like, they're not doing it that intentionally as a punishment. They're doing it. A lot of the commenters, and I see how this would come about, would they said, I don't want to have sex or be emotionally connected with a man who doesn't do anything to help me around the house. You know, like it's doing those things is how is, you know, like part of foreplay. It's for a woman. It taking some things off of the mental load helps a couple in the bedroom. And I think sometimes men and the providers don't necessarily understand that's how women's brains work. You know, and I was also going to say that a lot of times when these conversations happen because we don't normally have solutions to them, like you're pointing out, it's the woman or the mental load bearer saying, here's all the things I'm carrying. And then it's the provider saying, but these are all the things I'm doing. And you're just arguing about who's doing what and what you're contributing, but nothing is getting solved.

That's exactly right. Well, and not only that, if I'm depleting and at my limit emotionally, then I don't have the capacity to build connection with. You want to have sex, spend time, effort and energy because you're spent in, yes, the emotional upset of it and the load of what you're doing. Right. Trying to hold down a job, trying to take care of the kids, replenishing the cereal, cleaning the house, taking out the trash. I mean, I could go on and on. I'd probably take me 15 minutes to get through the list. And I think because our providers aren't aware of what it is, and we keep trying to tell them, and all they're hearing is that you don't value what I bring to the table, too. And let me tell you, it's no picnic on my side. Then we both start banging for the validation that we need, because the reality is this, we're all doing the very best we know how. Right? We are really trying to knock it out of the park, because I don't know of anybody who's invested in all in. In their relationship that doesn't want it to go well. And so the fact that it doesn't just means we don't know what we're doing. We don't know how to turn it around. And when you say I need to help more, what I hear is, I'm not doing enough. And yet, gosh, I'm coming home tired. I'm dragging butt. I'm giving it my all right? And I. And I might have a capacity issue that we need to talk about, which we'll get to in a minute.

And I would. This is a conversation, correct me if I'm wrong, is you're going to really. You really want to use fairy dust here to start this off on a different place. And it's understandable. Look, I think sometimes people feel like we're not getting the point. Yes, we are. What we're all about is helping you get some momentum and create something new versus where you're struggling. And so when you're this spent, believe me, I've been there myself. It's very hard to think about fairy dust. And fairy dust is just letting your partner, letting your significant other, your husband, your wife, just share with them why you're sharing. Because this relationship is important. You're important. This means a lot to me. So spread that first rather than whipping out what Stacy likes to call our big old purse bag of truth, you.

Know, and also, but on the other side, I think some of the women that are going to be hearing you are going to be like, no, I don't want to do that. You know, I don't want to. I don't want. Want to do that right now. I want help. If the men, I hope are listening to this, too, you have to bring. The woman will bring the fairy dust. The men have to lower their defenses. You know, so it goes. It goes to both sides, and women do, too. Everyone. Everyone is defensive. Let's Just get that we, you. If you listen to our last three podcast episodes, every single person is defensive. So the reason why. And, and, and also, let's just. We're talking in stereotypes. We know that it can be all genders that experience these things. So don't beat us up for saying men are women because we know that it can happen to any person. But the men are feeling nagged, the women are feeling annoyed and angry, and those two emotions are happening because you're both stuck in defensiveness. There's no understanding that's happening.

Yes, right.

And so just let me just stack on that, Brook. And you're absolutely right. My only point in sharing that is if you really want to get some help and get some understanding, it's our experience. And working with hundreds and hundreds of people is it's if even though it's going to take everything you have and you're saying like f that fairy dust, I'm just sharing with you, give it a try. Because on the receiving end, none of us as humans can kick the crap out of ourself any more than we already have anyway.

Well, here's the thing. I got to jump in here because if you stay stuck in defensiveness, not only are you going to deplete your emotional well being and stability, but you're also going to destroy the relationship you're saying is so valuable and important to me. And you're going to take it to its limit. So you're at your personal limit now. You're going to stretch the relationship to its personal limit and then you're going to freak the hell out when all of a sudden you're facing a divorce. So I'm telling you, this way will not get you where it is you want to go. It will not get you the help and support that you quite frankly, desire and deserve. We've got to come at it from a different place. So when you tell me you don't want to appreciate what your partner is doing, even though they feel probably pretty similar to you, that they're working their fannies off too, somebody has got to set the defenses down or here's where it will happen. You're going to wear yourselves out and then the defenses are going to come down and by then it's going to be too late. It's absolutely going to be too long, too late, too little. Right. And it's going to be a done deal. And so we have these conversations so that you can understand that. Yeah, go ahead, Brooke.

I think sometimes you have to explain it in the way that you just did, like the Dire Straits, so that you can come back and see. Okay, that's why I have to do that, you know, that's why. That's why fairy dust matters, because I don't want to get to that point in my relationship.

Here's the thing. On my next point, it will come back in this one, because this stacks on exactly what we're talking about. We don't ever consider and talk about emotional capacity before talking about tasks. And what I mean by emotional capacity is we understand it through the lens of physical energy and ability and availability. But when it comes to the emotional experiences, we can be emotionally drained and tired. Even though my physical body is moving day in and day out. And so sometimes when you need something of me, I may not have it in the tank to give. Not because I don't love you, not because I don't want to support you, not because I don't care about you, but because I, too, am running on fumes for a lot of different reasons that probably the caretaker is unaware of. And then we just. We're going to fight about who deserves to take a break and who deserves to, you know, exhale and refill their cup. And. And so we're going to fight instead of solve problems to the women.

I just have a feeling there are some of the caregivers who are feeling angry and frustrated, probably again, that they're the ones that are going to have to facilitate this, you know, just like, if they want this problem solved. So they're going to have to come to the table and ask their partner to meet them at the table and, you know, try to spread some fairy dust and facilitate a healthy conversation. And they're probably like, God, that's just another freaking thing that I have on my mental load. But let me just frame it this way. You could probably get help from your partner really quickly by threatening divorce or saying, the relationship is over if I don't get more help around the house. And then they're going to be doing chores full of resentment. They're going to be vacuuming and feeling hateful about it and dusting, but wanting to throw the duster at you. Wouldn't it be so much nicer if you had this conversation together and you both really understood where each other was coming from and all the effort you were both putting into the relationship so that when the tasks get redivided and you both start to help each other more in the areas where you're struggling, it could be out of genuine love, then just, you Know, spite. Because I'm worried that you're going to leave me if I don't help you. Because that's the old way, and that doesn't last. That will maybe last like a week, you know, and then it's back to the way things were before.

Some people can give it a good 90 days, you know, and then they're. And then they're going to peter out, too, because we're not talking about emotional capacity and where everybody is with it. Right. And that it's okay for capacity emotionally to fluctuate, just like our physical energy does. It's important for you to understand that. And I. I love that you brought that up, Brooke, because I hope that through this podcast, it doesn't have to necessarily be the person who's carrying the mental load, the caregiver that opens up this conversation. Because the reality is, if we understand what's playing out and how to do it differently, either side could open it up. Because here's the thing I want you to know. Nobody's having a good time in this space. Everybody's feeling very negated, invalidated, unappreciated, unacknowledged, as we just put our nose to the grindstone and continue doing what it is I know to do in hopes. Hopes that it will go well. So, yes, either side can open up this conversation and do it in a productive manner to change the trajectory of your relationship that is absolutely needed right now.

You know, we know intuitively when things aren't going well, whatever side of this conversation that you're on. Okay, so you know what? Sometimes it just requires someone to raise their hand and you know what, and be the leader of this situation. And even when you don't feel like it, that's just the honest to God's truth.

So let's. Let's talk to each side separately. How about. Okay. Because we've got some. Some really great strategies and tips for you. And so I want to separate out the conversation now a little bit. Let me just say this one last thing. Encourage you. I encourage you, regardless of what side I'm going to speak to next, to focus on talking about what needs to be done instead of what's not being done. That's really important. We bang on what's not being done in hopes that we will get what it is we know needs to be done, and we can just cut to the chase without risking the fight and say, this is what I need. This is what needs to happen. As I see it, especially if you're the caregiver look, you know how it's being currently done, you know what needs to be handled, what's on the calendar, you're probably managing that, too. God love you. And you know what needs to be done. So talk about that. Give parts and pieces away to your partner and set them up for success. Let's talk about the caretaker side of things first. Okay, Here's a couple of tips that I have for you. Number one, I want you to assume that they care, not that they don't care, because they do. The reality is they do. And how I know that is you wouldn't be fighting about things if they didn't. Okay. What's happening in the fight is nobody's feeling validated for the piece that they're contributing in. You're doing a ton. You are. And they're doing a lot, too. So rather than diminish what they're doing that they're not doing enough, I can say I appreciate what you're doing and I'm running out of gas. So please, I need to divide some of these other things with you because I'm not going to make it. And I know that that is having me show up not so great. I'm taking it out on you, and you're getting, you know, upset because of how I'm handling it. And then you take it out on me, and we can't continue this. We've got to approach this from a different place. That's the reason I'm bringing this conversation to the table. Okay. Which is the second super tip. Appreciate and acknowledge their contribution. So assume they care because they do appreciate and acknowledge their current contribution and realize, okay, I see you're doing this. I know you're doing this. And here's these other things that I need some help and support with. And then start asking, focus on the. Do need this here, let's lay it out if we need to. Let's sit down at the table and let's literally list out everything that you're doing and decide which pieces and parts that you're willing to give away, because this is where it's going to start to get interesting. Been here myself. I know this one very intimately. I want to preach about it and tell them they should already know how to do these things I'm giving to them and they don't. So I need you to show them. I need you to teach them. And I know initially that's going to feel like, really, I got to do that, too. Well, if you want it to go well, yes. But realize households Are not the only one that fight with this. Corporations do, too. Any kind of teaching or training that goes on is going to require that load of. Now I got to kind of almost do double for a minute because I'm going to teach you how to do it. But then once you know and understand how to do it, I can completely let go of it.

And I would just say that's a great point. And for those of us that are really efficient and we get frustrated, say, oh, the heck with it, I'll just do it myself. You've got to let go of that. Like Stacy just shared, to be fair, if someone doesn't really know how to do something specifically, again, everybody that's a master of their craft, his or her, his. He or she makes it look easy, right?

Well. And do not buy into the idea because I can hear them. I can hear voices in my head right now because I had them. Oh, they should know how to do that. This is ridiculous. I shouldn't have to teach them how to dress the kids. I shouldn't teach them how to do the dishes. I. All right. And I'm. I'm saying yes, if you want it done in a specific way, yes, you do. Or let's take the next step. Ask them. Or ask them for what it is you need them to do as you redivide the tasks. And then you're going to have to drop the need for perfection in the way you do it. And that's going to be hard. Like, that one's going to test you. If they're willing to do the dishes, then let them do it their way. And if they're willing to dress the kids, I guarantee you, you're going to come home from work and they're going to be dressed in some kind of funk, funky, funky outfit. You're going to go, how the hell? Don't criticize it. You know, smile and say, thank you for dressing the kids. And let me show you what I would love for you to partner here with this outfit. See, these shoes go with these pants and the skirt. And, you know, this is where you find them. And you probably because they don't know. They literally don't know. They open up the drawer and they go, ah, there's a shirt and there's a skirt and there's a pair of pants and some shoes.

I saw a really funny TikTok about this specific thing. A dad was. Was responsible for dropping his little baby girl off at daycare because the mom had to go to work early and he sent her In a little overalls outfit with no shirt on underneath.

I love it.

And she thought it was. The mom thought it was hilarious, but was like, honey, why did you not put a T shirt on underneath? He said, it's a whole outfit. She said, her nipples are sticking out.

And I love. We can. We can find the humor in that because they literally don't know. Or you can beat them up for that. Which one do you think you're going to be able to stack on? Right. Finding the humor and saying, oh, bless your heart. I mean, at least you're trying. Thank you so much. But maybe next time it'd be a really good idea to put a shirt underneath, you know, could you do that for me?

And to be fair, when. When we're exasperated, teaching is the last thing on our bucket list. Let's just be honest. Yeah, it's a lot of work. It's way easier to do something on your own than to teach someone else how to do it.

Except for it keeps you in the same cycle again and again and again. So you're going to burn out. It's inevitable.

You have to make the choice. Do you want to teach and maybe have things done not in the way that you would do it and get some things off your plate, or do you want to stay in the hell of having the whole mental and physical, physical load of the household on your back? That's the choice you have to make.

And remember, we usually create these situations and environments on our own accord because you stepped in and you were really good at it and you took it on. And at first it was really fun and you got a lot out of it. And then as maybe the kids started to get added or their career started to take root, slowly but surely it became this overwhelming task or an experience that you're experiencing it to be today. And you were the only one that knew the progression of that. You know, your partner is going, hey, that's what you've always done. What's the big deal? Because they haven't had that same emotional progression happening within side of them. And so it's important that as you disclose it, you address it. You're the only one that's feeling it. They don't know, they don't understand, they don't get it. And because you've done such a fabulous job for such a long period of time, they literally do not know how to do it. And so I want to just say this. There are very few things that are as important and urgent as you think that they are. And I say this because I need you to let go of the perfection of doing it as well as you do. They'll get there, but in the beginning, it's going to be just like that cute little girl in the coveralls with no T shirt. You know, the dishes are probably not going to be put in the proper pace, or the way you load the dishwasher, or, you know, the way you mop the floor, the vacuuming. And they're going to probably miss some of the length that, you know to look under that certain chair in that particular corner. Right. We'll get there. Right. So it's like, thanks for doing it. And if you could, next time, just remember the corner or under this chair or remember the T shirt and the fact that this doesn't match.

And also, if things are not that big of a deal, just don't even mention them, because minimize as many criticisms as you possibly can, only if they're really important, because just so you know, every single one of those is a little dig. So the partner who's newly helping you with these things is going to feel defensive about that stuff. So try. Try to use this also as an activity to work on your perfectionism and let stuff go if it really doesn't matter.

And you know what? What? I used to get so wound up about this, I wouldn't even let my kids decorate the Christmas tree because I wanted it to look a certain way. And I look back on that, and, quite frankly, I'm horrified, because what's the point of having everybody come together to decorate the Christmas tree and then they're going to watch mom do it because it has to be perfect.

Let me just throw in a disclaimer here for our people that you're listening right now. This is pre Tom, by the way.

Yes.

The Christmas tree, you know, cray crate was pre Tom.

Yes, that. Well. And. And I'm curious, why did you think you needed to disclose that?

Well, because, you know, we just have all unicorns and rainbows now.

Yeah. Right. Now, the one thing I will say about our relationship, though, is because both of us have been what we call the caretaker in our previous relationships, there's a high awareness on both sides because we both have been in the trenches in that role. Otherwise, we, I promise, would be struggling with the same things you right now, our listener, are struggling with.

I would say that, yes, there's a high sensitivity to this because of what Stacy just shared. No, I was just having some fun on this disclaimer. So, yeah, I mean, there's Been. I can clearly relate. I can clearly relate on both sides.

Well, yeah, and just it go. It just goes to show that you guys know exactly what these commenters are feeling, you know, because you both felt exactly the same way at times in your past.

Absolutely. And again, as I look back, so many of the things that I thought were so important about how the dishes were done or the dishwasher was loaded or the trash liner was handled, or the lint underneath the chair or, you know, maybe there was not Breyers this time. It was, it was like the name brand Sunnyville or Sunnyside or Kroger or something. It doesn't matter at the end of the day. And yet we sacrifice so much of the emotional safety and quite frankly, our own emotional well being and sanity by getting all caught up in those things that we could just let blow by, like Brookie said. So I want you to understand that you'll receive more support. Support if you are respectful, if you are sincere, and if you ask, that's going to be your way through. Like disclose. I'm tired. I know you probably already have, but you've probably done it from a very critical, demeaning criticism in a leverage type of a way. Leverage means you either fix this or else I'm out of here. I'm done. You know, I'm not getting anything out of this relationship. There's no way that that can translate in the communication without the person on the other side. I'm not enough. I can't do it. Right? Et cetera. So when you criticize them yet again, when they try and step in and help you, that's the conversation that's going to go off. See, I can't even do this right, so I'm done trying. Because I would rather risk you not noticing I'm not helping than the risk of you criticizing and belittling me when I do try and help. Because that's very deflating. Okay? So. So that's really important. I promise you, you will receive more support if you will approach it from the ways in which we've described here today. Okay? And I know, take a breath. It's going to be okay. Slow down. This really is your way through. I know you have a lot of conversation in there about why you shouldn't have to and why this isn't right and why they should come to you, but that's never going to happen because they don't know and they don't understand what's happening inside of you. Normal. The myriad of things that you constantly and consistently do on a daily basis. They don't feel the exhaustion and the frustration that you feel right now from having done it all. They literally feel like they're very much doing the very best they know how they see your frustration, but every time they try and approach it with you, you're going to either shut down and go missing and do it anyway, go quiet or rip their face off. And who wants to risk that they're not going to want to do it.

I have a question on behalf of these beautiful people. What if you know how sometimes when someone comes up to you when you're in just the midst of chaos and overwhelm and feeling like the world is on your shoulders, and they say, what can I do to help you? And it's too big to even think of anything. You know, I feel like that's. That's a space that a lot of caregivers are in. They don't even know how to begin to ask for a simple thing that they could do in that moment that would take some pressure off, but it doesn't feel like a chore. You know what I'm trying to say?

Yeah, I think it's a fantastic question. And. And I would simply say, you know what? I'm really overwhelmed right now, and I'm just not quite sure, but thank you for asking. Thank you for being aware enough that you've considered and you're attempting to help me out with this. And then I would encourage you to go and spend some time and think through what it is you want to offload and ask them for. That would be a great moment. You gain the clarity that you need to and quite frankly, identify the places, because some of them, you're going to be willing to let go of them, some of them you're not, and that's going to be very unique. According to you as an individual.

That's a great question. And just as Stacy shared, you're going to need to maybe at a time that's more appropriate, maybe when you're not quite feeling so overwhelmed is what would be the easiest thing that you could offload that would be a genuine contribution and help you, but wouldn't be maybe quite so tight as to how you want it to go. And everyone it's got that that answer is going to be different for all of us. But that's a great question, and I've been there myself. Like, oh, forget it, man. I. I can't even begin to take that on. I'm just going to handle it myself because I've Done this hundreds of times. Thank you.

Scram. That's how you set yourself up to continue in this endeavor yourself. I'm thinking of a client right now where basically they, they didn't want to give anything away. You know, it was like, okay, let me take the kids to school. Let me help the kids with homework. Let me, let me get the kids ready for school. Let me schedule the doctor's appointments and get them there, the checkups. Let me, let me handle the play dates. And it was like, but you don't know how. And they're like, you're right, I don't. But I think I can handle it. Just. Just let me take a crack at it. And so there's a little bit of a push pull there that I just want to point out as well, right. Where if you really want help, then you're going to have to let go of the way you do it. And sometimes that's hard. Sometimes we're not willing to let go the way we do it. Just like me and my wrestle with the Christmas tree and a whole host and myriad of other things that would show up.

People are Christmas tree now. They would probably have a hard time. That used to be really cray cray because we just have a little one that fits in the corner of our house. It's not really all that special. Certainly we don't get too crazy.

I don't. I don't really care anymore because I've learned over time, thank goodness and age that it's just really not that big of a deal and sometimes we have to wear ourselves out in these places. And I'm going to just point this out for young moms. Bless your hearts, young families. Not just moms, but moms and dads. There you don't have to look very far to get a checklist of everything that you're supposed to be doing, you know, from the way you're supposed to feed your baby with organic, organic foods to. To the way you're supposed to dress them and handle them. And then, you know, you can track every movement as far as, like, how they're progressing and what they should be doing and the myriad of things that could bring about a tremendous amount of anxiety and stress. And I'm just going to be honest with you. I don't know that I could have done it. Thank God I raised kids when I did because there was a whole lot more space and, and faith that it's going to be okay and that I can just regulate today and I don't have to Worry about the checklist that a myriad of manufacturers and corporations and families and so societies and, and coaches are telling me it has to go a certain way and I have to provide certain things at the end. You've got to make this work for you. And if by chance you've got to violate your vegetarian, organic, special food that you only make a certain way, maybe you just need to feed the child and come back to it another day, right? These are maybe a Big Mac and a, and a, a large fry is okay for tonight and then we'll get back to all of that stuff tomorrow. But take it a day at a time and let go of the checklist and be willing to re examine what really works and what you have the capacity to take on in your own personal life and well being. Because here's the thing, having access to you, being present with your children, right, and not being freaked out and anxiety ridden all the time because you're so overwhelmed and tasked by the myriad of things that are being asked and required of you, being present with that child is all they want. I used to freak out about it too. And you know what? I come to the realization that really all they wanted was me. As I'm running around trying to make sure their clothes are clean and the perfect outfit and I provided this and the shoes and organized the play date and cleaned the house and you know, did the myriad of other things that I thought were important at the time. I mean, yes, there's a time and place for that. I'm not trying to minimize it, but I wish I would have spent more time with them instead of more time caretaking them, if that makes sense. And I think every child would say the same. You know, I should have fed him a Big Mac and a bag of fries instead of worried about it not being vegetarian, organic and purified and from a certain source and because it would have allowed me more time to spend with them, I guess is what I'm trying to say. So let it go and, and look at those tasks that you're willing to truly let go of because they're not going to be done the way you do them when you let them go. And that's okay. That's the thing you're going to have to risk. So let's talk to the other side for a moment. Let's talk to the providers. Unless there's anything the two of you want to add to that.

No, I think we're good.

Everybody feeling complete and here. I just want you to hear me say this. It's going to be okay. And thank you so much for all that you do. I know it's a lot. I really do. So let's talk about the providers. Here's the thing. Number one tip, don't take their frustration personal, okay? Because they really just need help, and they're not very good at asking for it. And they're not quite sure how they got themselves in this hot mess either. And the only thing that's changed is they've hit a limit and they don't know what else to do. So there's a saying that says, you know, violence, or I would say acting out is what we do when we don't know what to do with our suffering. And so they're suffering, and they just don't know how the hell they handle it. And so guess what? Because you're their person and you're their safe place, they're going to take it out on you. So do your best to not take it personal. That would be my number one tip. And realize it's a cry for help, truly. And your best place to approach this is from a place of empathy. And it's okay for you to also admit, look, I don't know what to do. This doesn't make sense to me. You've done such a great job of handling this for us and for our family for all these years. What I really just need is for you to sit down with me and let's divide out how I can help and support you, and then offer to really ask them to let go of it. Like, let me handle it. I'm sure I might mess it up according to the way you do it, but I want to try. I want to be here for you. I want this to go well. I'm on your side. Let's figure this out. Okay? The next thing is you be the one to offer to sit down and explore how to divide up the tasks. Like, what a concept. Now that you're aware of it, because you're listening to this podcast, you be the one to initiate the conversation and say, hey, you seem really stressed. Um, I see that you're. You're. You're really kind of hitting your limits here, or at least appears you are. I really want to be of help and support to you. How about if we together sit down and look at what needs to be done to. To run the household, and then let's divide them up, because I want to help. I want to be part. It's kind of like, hey, Coach, put me in. I know. I don't know what to do. But, man, I think I got some skills and I think I can figure it out if you'll just kind of show me the ropes because I want to jump in and I want to support you. I understand why you don't, because it's been scary the way you've tried to step in before. You've probably gotten your head ripped off. Felt like you didn't get it right because you didn't. Quite frankly, you weren't aware, you didn't know how. This is something that's brand new on your radar. But come on, you can take the initiative here and you can say, let's sit down and let's handle this. And they're going to thank you for it, even if they wrestle with you for a minute. Okay? So sit down, offer to explore how to divide up those tasks, and then you're going to have to sincerely ask them, are these ones you're really willing to let go of here? Right. Vet that out and. And be mindful also of your own capacity. Okay? But realize the load as it sets is not working. So if we don't address it and do something different, we can anticipate that continued breakdown and escalation of these frustrations is going to happen, which is the last thing you want. So handle it and address it by saying, okay, come on, let's reconfigure this. I can see this isn't going well. All right, I appreciate what you're doing. Please teach me what you're doing because I really am unaware. And then let's. Let's take a portion of this off of your plate so that we can start making progress in the direction that we want to go, the next thing I would say is when they're upset and they're going to be and they have reason to be, but they don't have the right to take it out on you. They just don't know what else to do. Your best place is to reassure them that you are willing to help. So I love questions like, how can I support you? Show me how. Let's sit down and figure this out together. I'm with you on the same team. I want to be a part of this. And yeah, you're right when you say, how can I support you? They might blow a gasket for a minute because they're overwhelmed and over tasked and they can't think of anything in the moment. Just say, hey, look, I can see that even this is overwhelming to you. Why don't you get some clarity right about what it is you want to give to me because I'm all in. And instead of, you know, starting a fight and you feeling discounted and invalidated because you know you're putting in. Look, you know, you are, you know, you're providing. You know, you've done a great job of providing a house and a beautiful car and a wonderful lifestyle, and you're, you're taking care of things that, yes, are important and valuable. Yes. Don't feel discounted by that. They're simply saying yes. But there's a whole host of other things that you're unaware of. And that's true. And you can cop up to that. You can admit to that.

Just. Would that be a good time to use what we call in our body of work the broken record statement? Give an example of that.

Well, the broken record statement would just be, hey, I'm here to reassure you, I'm willing to help. Just tell me how. I see you're upset, you know, and they're gonna say, yeah, but you should already know. You, you know, you should be able to figure this out. And yours I understand. I don't though, and I'm wanting to help. You just got to tell me what you need. How about you take a minute and get clear about what that is and then let's redivide them. I'm willing, I'm willing to be on the team. You're just going to help me out for a minute.

The power of that is, is because when that broken record statement is just remember in the, well, we're dating ourselves, when there was record and there was a little groove in there, it just kept getting caught on that it would just go around and around, meaning if there's not engagement. See, that's the greatest way to diffuse a situation when there's not engagement on both sides. So that just brings you back. You just keep reaffirming why you're in this conversation, what's important. You hear him or her, and it will just more quickly than not diffuse that situation.

It's only going to take a teeny tiny bit of ease to go in a different direction. Right. It's not going to take a lot. And this is for both of you. It's not going to take a lot of ease to go in a different direction. But if we don't take the ease, then the default option is going to occur where we just wear ourselves out and then we're willing to negotiate all kinds of things. But again, it's too little, too late.

I love that word Ease. You don't hear that too often.

So my next super tip here is, okay, if you know that your partner is freaking out and you've stepped in to try and help and support, but only to your own demise and disappointment, you've got to step out of your own doubt and criticism and make an intentional effort to become aware. Like, just look around. If there's something that needs to be done, do it, because it will make a huge, significant difference, especially if you're not asked. And it doesn't mean you need to point it out and go on and on about it. You know, there's that great Jeff Foxworthy joke that, you know, he took the trash out, and he describes it as his wife is out in the driveway, like, literally paving the thing, you know, on her hands and knees, and he runs to the door and he goes, hey, babe, I just want you to know I took out the trash. I took out the trash. And I. And I. And I stocked the fridge, okay? And. And. And it's funny for us to just look at the roles that we play sometimes. And I know that you want a good pat on the back for the little things that you're starting to do that you didn't do. And I'm just going to encourage you to go, those. Those are good things. I want you to hear my voice say that. And if you need to use this recording to remind yourself that they are good things, keep doing it, and eventually the validation will come. Okay? But in the beginning, sometimes we just need to give it to ourselves as we begin, right? Because if we start going, hey, hey, look what I did. See, I just did this little thing, they're gonna go, yeah, that's about like a fraction of what I'm, you know, doing in addition to my job, too, right? So do it because you know you're doing it and you're doing your best to. To pour in and to intentionally help out and support and pat yourself on the back like, you're doing a great job. You really are. So become more aware, pay attention. And if there's things that you see need to be done, don't not do it because they just ripped your face off or made you feel smaller than you feel like you needed to be minimized your peace or your contribution, it's just because we don't know better. And quite frankly, this is a place where literal practice is required. Know that what you're doing does make a difference in the long run, and know that you continuing to show up in that way in spite of what's happening will pay huge dividends in the long run.

I was gonna say if you can get to where you can start to get a sense of anticipation to what you're. The providing partner is going through and needing, and then be proactive on that, just in a slight regard, that is going to be huge because my experience is most of us, us, we don't know when we don't get to that place. And I know Stacy's incredible with. With me, with those things that she knows that I need. And she's anticipatory. I mean, she'll help me out to my car, our car, you know, when I'm, you know, with water bottles and other things. Like, gosh, that's a. You know, rather than two trips, it's one trip. Like, would you like some. How about if I help you out? Like, oh, my gosh, that's wonderful. I've always felt like, Stacy, no, I don't like carrying too many things at once because I have been the. The burdened person, you know, and it's. I just. That's. It triggers me carrying too much at once. I don't like doing that. So Stacy will literally offload some of that by physically helping me out to the car.

Well, and. And as we've already said. But I just want to highlight this again. Listen, if you haven't been in this role, it doesn't make any sense to you. It doesn't. You don't know how. You've never done it. It's never been required of you. But it doesn't mean you can't do. Just means it's a new place. It's. It's something that I don't understand and I don't know. And I know that as you're being asked to step into these places, that you, too, carry a tremendous amount of unaware and unknown things that you contribute and deliver to the relationship as well. And rather to fight about who's going to get the validation first. It's kind of like you acknowledge what I'm doing first, and then I'll acknowledge your part. No, no, no. I'm not going to do that until you acknowledge what I'm doing. And then I'll acknowledge. Acknowledge your part. Somebody's got to be the one to set it down and say, you know what? I know that you're contributing, and I don't know exactly how. And I don't know how you. How you do it and carry it. I'd like to understand that piece. And in addition to that, we need to Decide how to handle the tasks that need to be done as a household operation. Let's configure it. And then you're going to have to be willing to let it go if you give it away. And you're going to have to be willing to let that person kind of work their way through it. They'll get proficient at it, but don't attack them, especially in the beginning, because then it's going to prevent you from being able to carry on and sustain it over the long haul. Okay, so I have four additional points that I just want to point out from this conversation, and then we're going to wrap it up. Things to consider for both sides. Is it really as urgent as it feels? Because most things aren't. It's amazing what can be set to the side until tomorrow when needed and necessary. And us getting all spun up about it is needed and necessary. Let's slow down and come at it tomorrow. You know, the mess and the laundry and the dishes and how they're stacked in the dishwasher doesn't. Doesn't really matter at the end of the day. So consider that even though you might be feeling really spun up about it, it's really probably not as urgent as it feels. The next one is absolutes of any kind. Breakup down. Meaning the more attached to certain places and ways things have to go, the more difficult it is to get the help and support that you need and deserve. Be flexible with how it gets done. Get it done. At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter how it's done, and it doesn't matter if it's done the way you want it to be done. As I said before, Tom has this uncanny way of doing dishes. I don't get it. It makes no sense to me. But I can tell you that my kitchen sink and my count, when he is done, is like an ocean. There is water everywhere. In spite of his best efforts to mop it up, I just appreciate the fact he did the dishes and they're clean and we can eat off them and they're put back in the rack, and he makes a wonderful effort to do that. And when he's done, I simply have an easier time of now I don't have to do the dishes. It takes me 22 seconds to dry up the sink and turn the soap dispenser just so, and we're both happy. You know, it's like I. I manage your own ocd. Okay. If there's certain things that you want to have go or in A certain position or a certain way, you do those and take care of them. Because I guarantee your partner's gonna not gonna get it right. They don't have the same perspective or, or need or emotional driver to do that. So if it's really at the end of the day that important to you, then take care of it yourself. But. But get rid of and delegate the task and let it be done in the way that they choose to do it. And we can have dialogues and great humor and jokes and conversations about it, just like Tom and I do about the dishes. We can kid each other about it. It's not anything that we take personal, but it is a reality of the unique individuals that we are. And that is okay. There has to be space for that. The next one is creative problem solve. Sometimes there's just not enough of both of us and our emotional capacity and ability to handle all the requirements that are needed and necessary of us, especially as life is speeding up at an exponential rate. So consider things, if it's available to you, like grocery delivery so that nobody has to go to the grocery store, okay? And remember that there are young adults all around you in your neighborhoods typically that would love an odd job. And they'll do it for $10, $15, $20, everything from, you know, yard work to housework to laundry. And yes, again, they're probably not going to do it the way you do it, but it's going to get done. The last thought that I want you to know, I know as a divorce mediator and working with literally hundreds of couples from around the world and tens of thousands of conversations regarding just issues like this, there's always a solution together. Always. When we can truly get what needs to be problem solved on the table. Instead of all the defensiveness and rhetoric and emotional frustration that can be a part of this from both sides, it prevents us from being able to find these solutions. But I just want to remind you right now that they're there. We just need to find them. And finding them is going to come from a place of acknowledging that everybody is contributing in, everybody is probably doing their best, and everyone is aware of what the other is doing. And everybody's wanting the acknowledgment and the appreciation that comes from knowing I'm doing my part, right? So rather than fight for it, somebody's got to be willing to step in. It doesn't matter which side, but somebody's got to be willing to say, okay, I'm going to set this, this down and let's see if we can problem solve what needs to be done here in our household. And for heaven's sakes, if you know in your heart of hearts you can't get there on your own, well then for heaven's sakes, ask for help and support. That is what we do over here. And sometimes, yes, it does take a third party to say, okay, let's keep the safety involved and here, here's how we're going to do this. And they can set it up in a step by step process so that we can actually get to the solutions that we need to find. So I would encourage you to explore that as an option as well. And you can do that by scheduling one on one sessions with me. Or really where you need to go is probably the better love club. So that this can be a timed process that we do over a period of time. Because there is going to need to be a place where, you know, the caretaker takes an inventory of what are, what is it? Literally not in a spun up state when they're frustrated, but when a quiet moment where they can think more clearly, what is it you do have as a load that you want to, you know, let go of? And then that needs to be brought to the table or initiated by the other person to say, hey, let's talk about this. I don't know what it is, but I want to listen. And sometimes that just requires some skilled facilitation. And we have frameworks and teachings all around this to support you in finally getting to that solution that I want to remind you. Is absolutely there any other takeaways from the conversation, guys?

No, just believe me, we understand this is a very difficult place. Again, it's confirmed through all the incredible amount of comments and shares and thank you for everyone that has reached out and shared your frustrations with us. And we hear you and this is why we're, we did this episode to again let you know that we understand you and we hear you. And then most importantly, how can you get through this? I mean, again, the classic definition of insanity, we all know that. So as hard as it may, you know, seem to be in what may feel like you have no really desire to want to do again, it's. I would encourage you to look past that and do you want some, some new momentum to move through this situation because it's hanging you up and it's draining you Again, there's not an infinite emotional gas tank that sometimes we think and we act like there is there. I always ask people in our clarity calls, do you have any indecision when the fuel gauge in your automobile is on e, what do you need to do? Everyone, without question, I need to get some more gas. Well, it's the same thing here. If you go too long and that emotional gas tank is on empty, I don't guarantee too much, but I guarantee all of us will run out of emotional gas and we'll flatline. And that's not a good place.

Yeah, Absolutely isn't. All right. Right. Let's have a little bit of fun for a moment. You know, let's. Let's turn this on its end and recognize and realize and remember that whatever is playing out in your life right now, there's always a great moment where we can just switch gears and say, okay, I'm gonna go in a different direction and have a little bit of fun and play and novelty in my life. And I couldn't resist the temptation for this one today, especially because of our conversation, which is just find a. A task, something that you can do for your partner, and do it just because. Surprise them, and don't expect any credit for it. Just do it because you want them to know that you're thinking about them, that you love them, that you appreciate them, and you know that this is Might. Maybe might be something that would be important and powerful to them. And then wrap your arms around them and give them a hug and reassure them that you want to help, you want to be there. We want to be together. We want to work this through, because I promise that is. That is better than anything I could possibly offer you as far as, like, a gift or a surprise or a piece of novelty, like, just getting the reassurance that we're on the. The same team, and we're going to figure this out. That in and of itself will take you a long way. And the task is the demonstration that you mean it. So think of something today and do it. Step in. Be the one who's going to change the trajectory of your relationship here. And as for the song, each week, we have a song that we offer to you to kind of either support what it is we've talked about or to give you an emotional experience of the essence of what it is we've talked about today. And, you know, quite frankly, I thought all of us just need to take an exhale and chill the hell out. So I actually picked a song that's one of my favorite songs to chill the heck out, too.

Well, it's actually one that Stacy and I really, really like. And she. Stacy asked me. I don't Know, a week or so ago. Babe, what's up? That song, that incredible song the other morning that you were playing for me. A lot of times I wake Stacy up to music because we love music in this house. And then I heard it last night. I heard it. If you're listening to this live and I. And I text it, I took a screenshot of it and I said, babe, I think this would be. Because I knew a lot of times I'm not involved in this music choice, and that's fine by me. I said, I think this might really put you in this, and you can't help but calm down, as Bricky, like, likes to say, calm. Her brother loves to give her a lot of likes. Likes to make fun of the way she says C A L M. You can't help but calm down when you listen to this incredible song.

And the name of the song is the. It's actually the. The group. The music. Actually, it's a musical group.

Okay.

It's a musical group called Clouds Below 2002. This is their 2002 album. The group is called Clouds Below, and the song is City Blue. And so put it on. Yeah, Just take an exhale and. And stop spinning for a moment and just realize, okay, there's plenty of time to figure this out. There's plenty of time to solve this. The probably the greatest gift you can give yourself right now is just an exhale and let it settle for a moment. Then you're going to be able to start thinking clearly. Then we're going to be able to, like, reconsider some of the things that we've talked about in this podcast, and then you're going to be in a very empowered position to come at this from a totally different experience.

You can even play it again when you're sitting down to divide the task. That'd be another good time.

Great idea.

You can play it twice.

You can listen to this song along with our entire playlist on Spotify Love Shack Live playlist, or you can access it through our website@staceybartley.com that's it for this week's episode. Thank you so much for being here and listening in. And listen, if you have a conversation that you want to have or experience here on the show, don't hesitate to reach out to us, because we are dedicated to talking about the things that matter most to our listeners. For now, go chill out. Take an exhale. It's gonna be okay. I promise. Things are about to get really good.

Okay, everybody, time to go. We gotta close the doors to the Love Shack for this week. You don't have to go home, but you can't stay here. Come back next week, though, and join us for another edition of Love Shack live with Tom and Stacy Bartley.