#123: Feeling Ignored and Unheard In Your Relationship? Here's What To Do

I'm a hot mess and I don't know what to do with it. But I guess I'll just continue to carry it because you don't want to listen to me. It also causes me to make up a story inside of myself that you don't care about me. I don't matter to you. You don't know me. You don't get me. You don't understand me.

Hey, thanks for coming. Welcome to the Love Shack.

Hi. Welcome to the Love Shack. It's a little old place where we get to get together, explore, explore fresh perspectives and eavesdrop on juicy conversations to discover the things that really matter while having a little bit of fun along the way. I'm Stacy Bartley. I'm your host and I'm here with Tom, my lover and co host, along with our beautiful daughter, Brooke Brown. In the background, you'll hear her voice from time to time. I want you to know this is episode number 123, in case you want to share it with your friends or listen to it again, feeling like your partner never listens to you. That's what we're going to be talking about today. So if by chance you find yourself in the frustrating mode of feeling lonely and ignored, and as one client simply put it, I feel like I'm in the shadows of my relationship. And I went, wow, yeah, that's, that's this. And as we start this conversation, I'd like to ask you, would you consider yourself personally to be a good listener? It's an interesting question for us to ponder. When it comes to communication, we talk about the communication in high levels or we talk about the needs emotionally and physically that we have in our relationships or the burdens of the such. But we don't really tend to ask ourselves a lot about the listening aspect of our life. Are you a good listener? Do you consider yourself to be, and if so, why? What is it you do to be a good listener? Or if you say, no, I'm not a good listener, what are you aware of inside of yourself that makes you not a good listener? Where is it? Do you struggle with this concept?

I bet a lot of people think they're good listeners and they're really not.

You can tell we're related. I was thinking the exact same thing. I bet people say, oh, heck, yeah, I'm all over that listening thing. I say, no, you are not. No, you are not. I would bet, yes, if you did a poll, I bet the majority, like 90 percentile would say, oh, I'm a. I just Knocking that out of the park. And I bet if you ask their special someone man, what universe are you living in? Because that is not the case.

Well, the good news for you, regardless of where you stand on this question, is we're going to break it down for you so that by the end of this podcast, you're going to be able to evaluate more of the reality of are you a good listener and are you a good sharer? We're going to talk about both sides of listening and sharing in this episode here today. And here's what I want you to know about listening. It's desired by all of us. It's maddening and disappointing when we don't get it and tough to do, so that's why so few of us do it. It's really hard to listen. And we don't talk about that aspect of listening either. Right. It seems like it takes no effort, but it takes tremendous effort, focus, energy, and patience to listen to another person. It's one of the most difficult things we do as a human being. It's truly where the work is when it comes to our relationships. And it's very misunderstood. It seems so easy, right? Like, especially if you're the person who's desiring to be heard. Just listen to me. That's what we say. Geez, come on, just give me your time and attention. Just hear me out. I mean, come on, Honestly, how hard can it be? You're just sitting there looking at me. So today we're going to break it down for you so that we can all be heard more often as the goal and develop a better ability to do it for others. Because here's the thing you need to understand. Listening and being heard is really what we fight for at the end of the day as a couple. And it's kind of this unspoken conversation. It's an emotion, more likely inside of ourselves that says, okay, you hear me out. And it's like, no, I'm not going to hear you out until you hear me out. And you're like, screw you, I'll listen to you when you listen to me. You never listen to me. You never do it. I do it all the time. No, you don't. And we end up fighting for, okay, who's going to listen first? Because somewhere inside of our unconsciousness, we know that is where the effort is. And so we just want to be the person that's doing all the talking and sharing and not have to put in any of the effort. So I'm thinking about the thousand reasons as to Why I shouldn't have to listen to you right now. And all the ways that I feel like you've dumped me in the soup and didn't listen to me and now we're going to fight and we're going to fight to the death because that's how important feeling listened to is. I need you to understand that as a profession, that's what people pay me for. They really don't pay me to solve their problems. They pay me to listen. And they pay me to listen to such a degree that I can ask really good questions about their situation so that then they can actually understand and process their experiences for themselves. I don't tell anybody what to do. I listen very well. And I want you to know that's one of the benefits of my profession. Because we wouldn't think as listening as a skill, but it absolutely is. And it absolutely takes what I call emotional conditioning. Because at any given moment, as a listener, somebody can say something that will fire you up and then all of a sudden you find you're not listening at all anymore. And so we want to talk about all of that and we're going to break it down for you. So I want you to understand what's required to be a good listener and to be heard. Because it is so critically important in our relationships to be able to do both. This really is the crux of our communication issue, right? It's the sharing and the listening. Not so much the words that we say. Yes, they're important, but if you don't get this one right, you're not going to be able to do the other. So let's dive in. Let's do a high level of what's required first so that you understand how human behavior works when it comes to sharing and listening. I thought this would be a really great place to start. The first thing I want you to understand is that listening requires emotional capacity. What do we mean by that? Here's the deal. If you're a real hot mess, like if you're spinning in your own internal experience and thoughts and feelings and emotions, if you're in the mire of trying to problem solve or in the throes of self doubt, judgment, etc. You're not going to have it in the tank to listen. And that's just a reality. It's not right or wrong or good or bad. It just is what it is. And so many of us attempt to listen or pretend like we're listening when really we're not listening at all. Because I'm over here, spinning inside of myself. And that takes me to number two, which is listening requires time, patience, and slowing down. And when you think you've slowed down, you're going to need to slow down some more. So having the patience to sit and listen is often what throws us out of the conversation. Because it's like, hurry, hurry, hurry. Say what you need to say. Hurry. I got to get on with things. What you have to say isn't so important. Come on, come on, come on, come on, come on. I got things to do. I don't have time for this. Well, if that's your position, you're not a good listener. If that's where you're living inside of yourself, you're not going to hear anything that anybody is saying. And I get it, because it takes, like I said in number one, tremendous focus and energy. Like it's hard work to listen.

Yeah, no, I just. Myself. I mean, I'm guilty of this. You can be nodding your head and doing all the body signs, like you're listening and you're a million miles away. I mean, you're. You're not even in the same universe. I mean, it's like you. That is so spot on. It requires for you to be. There's no gift, in my opinion, better than being fully present with another human being. Think about it. When we encounter someone like that in our lives, think about how drawn we are to him or her. Because why? Because it doesn't happen too often. I know. That's my experience.

Well, and there's. There's something that you probably don't understand as a human being, that when I can share myself with somebody else, that's literally where I'm engaging with me. Like when I'm talking and sharing, I am feeling and expressing what's happening inside of me. It's literally the ability to take those tumbling thoughts, feelings and emotions that we have inside of ourselves and put them out here so I can look at them. That's the gift you're giving. I'm helping you understand more about what's going on inside of yourself. And if you cut me off, interrupt me, et cetera, then you've thwarted that process. And that's really why, as a human being, I get so ticked off. Because then it interrupts this process where I feel like now I'm just stuck alone inside of myself and it seems scrambled and chaotic. I'm a hot mess and I don't know what to do with it, but I guess I'll just continue to carry it because you don't want to listen to me. It also causes me to make up a story inside of myself that you don't care about me. I don't matter to you. You don't know me. You don't get me. You don't understand me. And those are the things that if I stack on and truly believe are going to prevent me from showing up fully in our relations. Like, I will pull out and I will handle it with my friend or my coworker on the backside. Because being heard is a fundamental survival skill as a human being. Like, it's that important. So if I can't get it at home, I'm going to get it somewhere else.

What about the phenomenon in many relationships, typically it's the woman telling the man, I told you that. I know I told you that. You never listened to me. Why don't you remember me telling you that? And it's almost like the man is, is. It's going in one ear and out the other. Like he's so tired of the woman yapping her mouth. And I'm not saying either of these people is the bad person. I'm just stating facts of what's going on. It happens in a lot of marriages, I think, where the woman is saying the details of we're leaving the house at this time on this day and please have your bag ready or whatever like that. And the man's like, what? You never told me that. And the woman's like, yes, I did. I. And that happens all the time. What's the story there?

Ah, well, you are almost on cue. You and I are in sync right now because that's literally the next point I was going to make, which is called distraction. Because listening takes focus. We do a lot of. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I got it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, honey, I got it, I got it. But like Tom already confessed, I am a million miles away. And usually, typically in our society, the males role is to be the provider. So what do you think he's thinking about? He's thinking about the bills that need to be paid and what's going on at work and what he needs to perform. And he might be thinking too about the downtime that I get on the weekends because I've been working my fanny off at the job, the nine to five, punching the clock, dealing with my boss, dealing with my employees, dealing with my business. And so I just want to be left alone to kind of like recuperate. And I don't know how to tell you. Listen, sweetie, I want to hear what you have to Say, but I don't have the emotional capacity right now. Can you just give me some time and then I'll come get you. And so they do a lot of yeah, yeah, yeah. And so we think we've communicated it to it and it's been Translated until the 11th hour comes down. And I'm like, you didn't say that. Yeah, the hell I didn't. And we're going to have a fight about that without simply saying, look, I told you, I don't think you were listening. That's fine. Get your stuff together. We got to be out of here in five minutes, right? We're gonna. A fight ensues because the person who's giving you all the details or is carrying all the details in the relationship is frustrated as heck that they're not listened to. And that's just yet another example of distracted listening. It's not so much that you didn't get at the first pass, more of the emotional frustration is the angst that there are several places in my relationship that I don't feel like you hear and listen to me. And this is just yet one more frustrating example.

And this kind of communication where it's the distracted listener, they remain sometimes distracted for the entire 30 year marriage. This issue never gets corrected. So it's just the person who's carrying all the details telling the distracted listener and the distracted listener being distracted forever. And they never really discuss like the main core issue of why that's happening. They both just remain frustrated for the entire course of the relationship and it's just accepted as normal.

And this takes us back to number one, because there is an emotional capacity and the more that this plays out, the more you can see that it's going to play out over time. So it's going to escalate in it as a problem in the beginning, it's not going to be a big deal. Ten years in, 20 years in, 30 years in, it's going to be a huge problem. And not only that, I am emotionally exhausted, exhausted from it. So my goal, my focus is not going to be on listening to you. Like that was a long, long time ago. My goal is going to be figuring out how to avoid this situation. And so I literally become more distracted over time trying to just recuperate and regain some emotional capacity inside of myself. And I become highly reactive over time about you trying to talk to me and share to me and listen to me. I'm like, oh, again, it's an emotional depletion problem. Really.

I was going to say I mean, we've got some really interesting dynamics, what you just described. I share this often on our clarity calls. I mean, so you have an emotional capacity issue that simultaneously your emotional gas tank is flickering on empty. So those ladies and gentlemen and lovely listener are not a good place to be because invariably it's not. You're going to tap out.

And I just want you to see that it's because of the process, not the person. It's because you didn't understand the process of relationships and how they work and listening skills and what it takes. And there's a lack of understanding. Like, there's a. There's a gap there where we don't understand that it takes tremendous effort and energy to listen. It's not so simple. And so I avoid listening to you because I'm on fumes. I don't have the capacity anymore. And then you bang on me some more. And everybody's emotional gas tank is slowly but surely getting lower and lower and lower. And we can't understand why the distracted.

Listener being distracted and the person who's talking, holding all the details, being detail oriented, those coming together and causing this issue we're talking about turns each of them into the worst versions of themselves within the relationship.

Yes, absolutely. Because the person who's carrying all the details is getting more and more frustrated and quite frankly, more and more invalidated and unappreciated and unacknowledged and misunderstood is where they're going to go in their thinking. And so the more that begins to break down, the more desperate they become for the attention and acknowledgement and the understanding from their partner. So guess what they're going to do? They're going to and moan and complain and nag and beg and plead. And that's just literally a misunderstood function of trying to connect with you, trying to reconnect, trying to be close to you, trying to turn this around. And they just don't understand that, okay, everybody's on fumes. We've got to reset and totally go into.

And would you say this is ultimately why, if that continues into whatever period of time ultimately, like you like to share, when you draw it out, we're gonna. Things are going to bleed out the back and we're going to get those needs met elsewhere.

Yeah, I'm gonna. I'm gonna be able to talk and share with somebody who actually does listen to me, and I'm going to find that I feel a lot better because I am being heard, I am being acknowledged, I am being seen, validated that I exist, that I'm important and that I matter. And when we can wrap our head around like that is a very important function of being alive on the planet and in the world in which we live in. And I will do pretty much anything to get that experience as a human being, because to feel invalidated means I'm going in the other direction and I begin to feel or make up a narrative inside of myself that I don't matter, I don't count, I'm worthless, my contribution isn't important. I'm here working my fanny off, and nobody seems to give a damn. Right. Going back to my client, I feel like I live in the shadows of my partner's life. That is a hell of a place to emotionally live. And how long as a human being could any of us hang out and be there? Not very long before we become, right, depressed, shut down, even suicidal, or thinking about having an affair or terminating the relationship. We will go to whatever degree place I need to in order to survive, hopefully through this experience. And sometimes, sometimes I think there's just a lot of misunderstanding about how it is we get there. Right. This listening piece is so important. And yes, please acknowledge and understand that it takes a tremendous amount of effort and energy to do it, to give it. It truly is the greatest gift we give to another human being. And so here's the next one I want to move to. So distracted listening. Huge problem creates huge issues in our relationship. They start out as little teeny tiny things, and then they expand and mushroom into very big problems in the relationship where everybody is then just trying to cope and survive. They go into survival mode, and then it's just a game of hanging on for as long as you possibly can until one or the other is going to do something egregious in an effort to cope and get that validation that they desperately are seeking. Okay, hope that makes sense. Four is the hardest part sometimes about listening is keeping your damn mouth shut. Like, you're listening and you start to hear some things that are starting to fire you up, and then the emotions start to reel inside of yourself, and then you feel like you're gonna bust if you don't say something. Like. And that's usually where listening takes some, what I call emotional weightlifting, where I have to be able to continue to hear you say, I feel like this was verbally abusive. And in that phrase, a lot of us would go, what? I'm not verbally abusive. Like, how did you get there? That's terrible of you to say. I've never been verbally abusive. I'll tell you who's been verbally abusive. You've been verbally abusive. And let me tell you where. Because the reality is all of us can say some really messed up in our relationships. I'm just gonna say it like it is. We can all in our moments of reeling and our negative emotions can say some pretty messed up stuff. And so the minute I hear verbally abusive and think that's how you see me in my light, in that light, then my defenses are going to get kicked off and I've stopped listening. And now I have a point to prove. And in that moment, really what you need to do is just keep your mouth shut. And I know I'm asking a lot and that takes practice and it takes skill and I'm going to get to that when we start talking about the listener and the sharer. I promise I'm going to go deeper into that. But it's important for us to learn how to keep our mouth shut. And if we're going to open it, we're only opening it when we're listening or in the role of listening to understand more about where the person is. Okay? So that's required. It's going to need to be necessary when you're in the listener role. And then five is just something we've already touched on, but I feel like it warrants being touched on again. When we feel heard, we feel validated and that's what we're all fighting for, which is something that is so important to our well being that we are going to be willing to fight for it. And I don't mean a little bit hard. I think these are the things that disrupt and end relationships more often than pretty much anything.

I would like to add a number 5A when you. Not only when I feel heard, but when you remember something about me, like a little detail that I didn't think you would remember that I would say that makes me feel even more validated. You know what I mean? That we often take that. We don't think about that very much in relationships, I feel like. But when you remember a little detail or you like surprise me with something that I didn't think you even were listening to me for, that is such a validating experience in your relationship.

Well, it's going to be the exact, the absolute proof that you were listening. I mean, because you can't fake that if you didn't hear it, you're never going to be able to come through on that, you know, I mean, so.

And then I would Also, add, that is a very rare experience, and that's why it is so. Oh, my gosh, you remember. Yes. Like, we are not expecting you to remember. We are not anticipating or assuming that you remember. But that demonstration that you did remember.

Wow.

You want to talk about the epitome of validation and feeling so loved. That reminds me of when you and I were getting to know each other.

Okay.

And you used to. Because we'd spend hours talking on the phone and we'd go back and forth until the wee hours of the morning and the next day when we would talk, you would always. And I don't know if this is very intentional on your part, I'm asking you a question and a share all in the same moment, but you would say, hey, something I remember about our conversation from yesterday or something that I'm remembering now from what you said earlier is this. And then you would say, and you thought I wasn't listening. It was almost like this, this incredible thing that you took really to heart and that meant so much to me. No wonder I fooled around and fell in love with you when I wasn't going to ever do this again.

Just a pretty face here. A lot to the package. If I'm saying no. No, I don't remember that. But thank you for sharing. I. I'm guilty of not being present, but I do know the incredible importance. My question again, which I've been trying to get out for the last three or four minutes now, is, would you say this distracted listening and everything we're talking about in this episode is really the main genesis of why people show up in. In our office, online, in our Better Love Club? Is that one of the main components of places where things start to break down?

Yes, there's. It's what we do after we stop listening. Once we start. Start reeling inside of ourselves and we stop listening, the next step is we're going to get defensive and I'm going to attack. And then the combination of those things that we have tried to break down in our podcast episodes.

Or as of late.

Yeah, as of late. Yeah. Are really responsible for. And so if you listen to the podcast episodes as they're playing out, you'll start to see one thing leads to another, leads to another, and how they all start to dovetail, and I can't point to any one thing.

Distracted listening is like the slippery slope.

It is. And because we don't realize and understand more times than not that it does take that capacity we talked about and that it does take a tremendous amount of effort and energy as a human being to listen. And then when I hear something as a listener that is going to plug me in and get me reeling, then, then I'm going to jump to defensiveness. And now the communication is just done. Nobody's going to feel listened to or heard or it's going to go in a totally different direction. And we're going to start taking our emotional experiences, right, our emotional upset and conflict out on each other because we literally don't know what else to do. And so those are some of the. There's several skills that we teach inside of the work that we do here amongst that little teeny tiny thing I just said like, and it's kind of like we've got to slow it all down so that we can see how it plays out. And then we can start to work with each little piece to help us go in a different direction. And that's what required to save our relationships. So, so this distracted listening is just yet again highlighting one part about where it goes sideways so quickly. Okay, so number six is just this, this overall summary of what we've just talked about. And again, I'm just talking about the higher level of, of listening and what's required here. And typically where it goes sideways, good listening requires both the person sharing and the person listening to be responsible for how they show up. So let's talk about these independently of each other for a minute because we're as lovers going to need to play both sides of this role. It does matter how I share and how I say what I need to say. And it does matter how I listen and how present I am when somebody is sharing with me. And so I thought it would be helpful for you to be able to part these apart heart and go deeper into each role and how to be successful in each role for better overall communication with each other. So if you are the person who wants your partner to listen more, here's what I need you to understand. Negativity is very difficult to listen to as a human being. If I feel attacked, blamed, criticized, or made to feel responsible for what's happening inside of you while I'm listening, it's nearly impossible for me to listen to you at all because I'm am now spinning with the conflict internally and feel like I am going to lose my mind. And the only way for me to deal with that is to either rip your face off, say something, bust, or get the hell out of dodge and shut the conversation down. I stop listening as I pretend like I am, which takes us back to the Distracted listening piece. So here are some super tips to help you out when you know you need to be heard. The first thing is say, I literally need you to just stop what you're doing. When you can check in and see if you can be present with me. I just need to say a few things like take some ownership with that, and if they say no, honor and respect that. When would you be in a place where will you come get me? When you're in a place to be able to take the time and effort to listen to me. Because you now know it takes a tremendous amount of effort and energy and most of us in our relationships are running on fumes anyway. And so for you to have the expectation that I'm just supposed to be ready at any given moment to listen to what it is that's coming up for you is a misnomer. It's actually a lie. Right? We are. We're negating that first principle I talked about just a moment ago of capacity. Okay. Once somebody buys in and says, okay, yeah, I've got it, I'm going to take a crack at listening to you. Don't talk at them. Don't talk at them. You're sharing how you feel and what's coming up for you and what's not working for you. Please be mindful of taking it from that perspective. Otherwise it's just going to come across as though you're attacking them. Which brings me to the second one. Don't tell the person listening how they feel, because again, that's going to fire them up. You don't know how they feel. You're making up a whole story about that. Tell them how you feel, not how they feel or what they've done wrong. Tell them what's not working for you. Why are you needing to share this? Own it. Take responsibility for it. And understand this is an emotional experience that's happening inside of you. So own it, because the minute you start to talk at them or tell them that you know how they feel, they're going to stop listening to you. And don't teach and preach. I don't need somebody to teach and preach to me. I need you to share with me, if I'm in the listener position, what's going on for you. Don't tell me what I need to be doing. Don't tell me what you think is the solution for me. Tell me what it is, what's happening that is upsetting you and not working for you. And what's up, what's got you reeling that's what you can share and that's what I'll have a greater capacity to learn. Listen to and don't blame me, because if you start to blame me, I'm again not going to be able to listen.

Today I was actually responding to some comments on Tick Tock about this exact thing you're mentioning. So I wanted to just bring it up. A lot of women, it's not always women, sometimes women don't listen either. So we're saying I've told my husband or my partner 100 times exactly what I need from them to feel more, more emotionally connected. And my response to them was a lot of times it's in exactly. And how we're asking. I would imagine by the time you got to a hundred times, you're probably not asking nicely anymore because you're frustrated so you're tired of having this conversation. But I just would invite anyone who's in that spot, tired of their partner not listening to them to truly assess how they're asking and if they were asked in that same way, if they would jump up out of their seat and say, yes, I'm ready to do whatever you're asking me to. Because the answer is probably no. You wouldn't be happy that someone was talking to you like that. And we're not saying you're wrong for feeling that way. Of course it's a frustrating experience all around, but you have to reinvent and recreate this kind of communication that you're going to have with your partner. If you truly want to create an environment where listening is possible and change is possible.

Possible. Well, and I'm just. What we've been taught and what's been demonstrated and what we're more aware of as a human being than not is somebody complaining and carrying on even when we want acknowledgment. Sometimes it sounds a lot like, oh, you know what I had to do today? I had to get up and it was 5am and then I had to do this and I had to do that and can you believe then I had to go. What I'm really saying is, look how amazing I am. Look what I'll look at what I've done. Yeah. And I can do this and I can do this and I can jump, jump through hoops and I can make it happen in a single bound. And please somebody see that I'm doing all of this for you because I love you. And it comes off as complaining instead and criticism instead. And so that's why I say don't talk at them. Don't tell them how they feel. Don't teach and preach. Nobody wants to be told what it is they have to do. I need to uncover that for myself in order for it to work. And please don't blame me. It's okay for us to feel the way we feel, like the Brooke just said, it really is. But talk about it in a way that you're owning when this happens. This doesn't work for me. I've noticed that when this plays out, it makes me uncomfortable or feel awkward. I don't know how to handle such and such. Fill in the blanks. These are like things that you can say that will get more to the heart of the matter and solve and express the things that you're truly longing to express inside of yourself.

Yeah, this is. I love this and I talk to talk often about this in our clarity calls is I use the analogy of think about when you're invited somewhere versus when you're told you have to be somewhere and everyone instantly says, oh gosh, those are much different experiences. I say, so if we can. Excuse me. Remember that when we're sharing with our partner and ask them to be invited into what we're experiencing. Or the opposite, ask to be invited into what our partner's experiencing. And this is what Stacy's just describing here. These skill sets and approaches to sharing will invite your list, your partner, your special someone into what you're experiencing versus being attacked and blamed and all the things that we typically do. So it's going to be a game changer because there's very, very little that someone's going to push back against when they're feeling like they're being invited into something, even if it's difficult to hear because you're not attacking them, you're inviting them into what you're truly experiencing.

I have a question about people in this spot. If, let's say, for the past last five years or ten years you've been in this cycle that we've described of distracted listening and frustration, do you need to address that before you can change? Do you need to have a conversation with your partner?

And no, you just need to start showing up differently. And by nature of having a different experience, it causes everybody to go, hey, whoa, wait a minute, this feels better. Like, what are you doing? And then we have the experience behind us to stack on and build on. I mean, you can, but it's not necessary. It's just a place where you step in. And again, I can't emphasize this enough, enough. It's your experience. And what ends up happening in our relationships is because I'm having the emotional experience I'm having. I tend to blame my partner for bringing it up or not being able to fulfill or I blame them for creating the emotional experience I'm having inside of my head and in my experience. And I need you to understand that is that is so not true. That is an assumption and a conclusion that we come to that is not based in reality. I get how we get there. I've done it myself. But you need to understand that if it's an emotion emotional experience you're having, it is yours to remedy. And your person probably doesn't even get it or relate or understand like they're not having that experience. And I really like to use the metaphor of I'm having a headache and understand that when I have a headache, nobody else has the headache I have and they don't understand where I feel it and how it hurts and the pain that I'm in and the frustration I'm in. They can support me with it, I can share it with them if they're willing to understand what my headache feels. But it's still on me to take responsibility for the fact I have a headache. And if they're not gonn help me remedy that headache, it's still on me to do so. And the more specific and clear I can get about how to manage that or what it is I need in my communication, the more likely I'm going to be at getting heard, at being listened to, because I'm taking responsibility for the fact that this is an emotional experience I'm having. This doesn't work for me. And I need you to understand as a human being, what fires you off is not going to fire everybody off. You know, it's going to be different for you based on your past experiences, your current experiences, the dialogue and narrative that you have going on inside of yourself, like it's very unique to you. And yet we expect people to know what it is that emotionally fires me off. And how dare you? How dare you fire that off in me? And the person on the other side is going, what? Geez, that's no big deal. Why are you worried about that? And then they dismiss us and shut us down. And there we go again. That lack of listening and understanding is gone. Now we're going to be back to fighting again. So that's really important for you to understand. If you're feeling it and you want to be heard about it, then own it and talk about it from Your perspective. This is what's not working for me. This is where I go when this happens. This is what comes up for me when this happens. And I'd like to remedy this with you. And really so many of our problems and upsets on our relationships would be eliminated if really we just saw understanding for what was going on inside of each other, like the sharing of it in ways that I can own it and take responsibility for it. Not complain, not bitch and moan, not blame you, not teach and preach, not talk at you, not buy into this idea that somehow you're supposed to know better, but to really take responsibility for it. Because then the listener is going to have a better chance of listening to you and then being able to just seek understanding as the listener, which we'll get into, of drilling down that no matter what you say, really what you're working, working out is that emotional experience that's happening inside of you. And the gift I'm giving you is just listening, just literally letting you work it out for yourself. As I take a journey with you, that is a wonderful thing because then I am able to support you in a place where you can understand yourself better and I can be of support by just simply being there and allowing you to do that. It's a huge gift. Own what you're thinking and feeling and share it from the that perspective. I can't over emphasize how much that is going to improve your ability to be listened to finally. And then be clear and specific as you can. Don't go on and on again. Remember, listening takes tremendous energy. So if you go on and on, I'm still waiting for you to get to the point. At some point in time, I'm going to lose the energy and the focus to listen to you. And I've already checked out. And then you're going to get mad at me because I checked out about 10 minutes ago. But it's taken us 40 minutes to get to the point and I'm still not sure about what you're talking about. So on the front side, if we can do the effort and work of knowing what it is we do want to talk about and what it is we do want to bring to the table, especially when we're trying to remedy something that's an issue for me emotionally, it would be very helpful if you could get as specific and succinct as possible and to be able to know what it is you want so that we're not just talking about the problem, but to actually be able to make some progress with it. You've got to be able to lay on the table what it is you want. And we talked about that in last week's podcast episode. How to ask for what it is you really want. It's an important skill because of the capacity we have to listen as a human being. So as succinct and specific as you can get and then being able to throw a remedy on the table. So we're not just talking about problems because I'm not going to last very long there either. We just keep talking about a problem, talking about a problem, talking about a problem. Again, I'm not going to be able to sustain my ability to listen to you. I'm going to run out of emotion, emotional capacity to do so. So be as clear and specific as you can be and ask for what it is you truly want and then understand. Because listening is the hardest part of this equation. Sharing, listening. You want to make sure it goes back and forth. You know that if you share or ask something and take time to emotionally express what you're experiencing and what's going on for you, just know, Sharer, there's going to be a whole lot of things that are going on and coming up for the person who's listening for you as well. And if you're not paying them to listen to you and it's a one sided equation and you're in a relationship with this person, there has to be a back and forth, there has to be a place where, okay, now what's coming up for you? I want to hear what you have to say. Now I'm going to shut my mouth and I'm going to take on the task of doing the majority of the work and the equation of communication and I'm going to listen to you. And this needs to be a give and take. Otherwise it feels like somebody's doing all the work and putting in all the effort and energy and somebody else is reaping all the benefits.

Yeah. What comes to mind when you share that? And that is such a crucial point. Point is, you know, many times people will step into our world and start working with us when maybe there's been some type of a so called egregious sidestep by one of the persons. And when that happens, you mean a mess, the mess maker. How about that? Yeah. And so there's an imbalance as to compensation and trying to make up and whatever. And so what you just shared I think is crucial even in those, you correct me if I'm wrong, but even in those situations we have to realize this is a give and take take here. Right. I mean, and so if someone is trying to make up and just contribute and put in and there's nothing refilling his or her tank, it's never going to be sustainable. You know, and I understand why there's this extra emphasis on trying to make up for the sidestep. I get that. Stacy loves to remind us that there's two people involved. There's. It's always a co creation. So you need to be very aware. Again, this is all based on energy. This is science at work and it's taking place right inside of us.

Well, no listening required in that situation is probably the most painful listening that you could ever do because it's going to be a lot of hearing how much your actions hurt your partner. So I would say that's, that's even.

Harder when I guess the elephant in the room that we're talking about is an affair.

Yes.

Okay, I'll just name it.

Yeah.

I mean, in that specific situation. Yes.

And there's, and there's even some very specific things. It gets off track because just like we do in being able to, to share when we're not getting specific and we're not owning our experiences, when we're talking about the recovery of affairs, we can start talking about things that don't take us anywhere. Good. And so I need you to understand that there's a, there's an emotional experience with recovery from affair in the communication that we need to have. And there's a logical circumstantial conversation and that's the one we typically pick, which just creates more of a nightmare for us. So if by chance you find yourself in a process of needing to talk about or recovery from an affair and you need to know how to do this, listening, sharing, peace, I'm going to highly encourage you to get some help and support with this. Because of times we go down the path of where did you do it and how was it done? And what did they say, what were they wearing? And do you have sex like you have sex with me? And I just need you to know that's going to turn into a horror flick and it's going to not help you at all recover from an affair. Fair. What you need to know are more things like did you think about me? Did you hope that I would find out? You're talking about more of the emotional nature of what it is you truly need in owning what is coming up for you. Because it's an emotional experience that you're Having, it's not a logistical, circumstantial experience that you're having. When you find out that this type of a mess is present in your relationship, just understand that's an emotional experience experience. It's not a circumstantial one. And then we try and solve it with understanding the circumstances and then it just creates more and more and more emotional pain for us to wrestle with and recover from. So those are. That's an important distinction as well. So I think that's a wrap for the. The person who's sharing. I let's dive into some tips that we can give you here as we.

The other side of the experience.

On the other side of the experience. Because there are things that the listener needs to be mindful of as. As well, in order to be able to have this go well again. Both the share and the listener need to take responsibility for their role and understanding who's doing what. And as things start to fire off, I just want you to see how easy it is for us because emotions move really fast that we don't even understand who's the share and who's the listener. It's like, it gets so muddy and chaotic that, you know, that whole idea has been tossed out the window. And so literally, to get better at listening and sharing, you have to. To slow down before you can speed up with the emotion. It's like it has to be a very methodical, intentional speak. And so this is why in traditional therapy, the exercise of reflective listening is so important because it literally slows the communication down. And it seems really clunky and time consuming and it is. But there are some really great skills there that you can learn and practice that when you start to speed it up, you can get better at it, but you've got to slow down and order to speed up. And that reflective listening exercise is simply listening to such a degree that then you can repeat back to the person what it is you just heard them say and you say those things and then they confirm that they've actually been heard and. Or fill in the missing spots.

So when you ask people so and so, please share what so and so just said, what do you often find that people are able to truly share what they heard? And are they accurate?

More times than not, there's critical little pieces that are missing, missed that the person who was sharing is saying, and you forgot this piece that was really important to me. And, and that just highlights the focus, energy and effort that needs to go into listening that we miss so much. And this Reflective listening exercise. You realize you miss so much because we are all having this internal experience with inside of ourselves that quite frankly, if I'm not distracted already, is very distracting as the process of listening unfolds. And that's why so few of us do it. I've got my thought process, thoughts trickling off. If you've ever struggled with like meditation and you can't stop your thoughts for a moment, well, that plays out in listening too because I'm just sitting there being with you and in that place my mind starts to trickle off into lots of other places or what you're saying creates an emotional experience that's happening inside of me and that's now where I'm focused, not on you. And so this is why a process or a practice of reflective listening, especially when we're starting out, is really helpful. Helpful. And a lot of people who are already spinning pretty fast are very resistant to it because you got to slow down. It's like, oh gosh, now I'm supposed to tell him or her what it is I just heard, like, can we just move on? I get it, I get the wrestle. That's why I call it emotional weightlifting. Because if you don't slow down to do that, then there are so many things you're going to miss. It's critical moments and pieces that you're going to miss. And it doesn't really matter in the relationship of co creation whether you're spinning too fast to hear it or not, does it? Doesn't matter whether you're distracted. It's going to have impact on your relationship. So it behooves us to slow down, to speed up, right? To be able to get better at this. So anyway, that's what I was going to say. The reflective listening exercise is really a valuable one to help us get better at this. Okay, so let's talk about, let's talk about the person who's listening. Okay, so we've talked about the person who's sharing and some of the super tips that they can do to, to improve the ability of someone to actually hear you out and for you to actually get what it is you're needing and wanting by sharing what's going on inside of you so that you can feel heard and validated. Excuse me, probably for the first time in your whole life, right? And it can't come from a place of complaining and nagging and carrying on because that's really difficult to listen to. So listener, here's the thing. Please remember whatever is said has more to do with the person and sharing than it does you like. What's coming out of their mouth is something that they're wrestling with internally with inside of themselves, and that's why it's coming out of their mouth in the first place. They really and sincerely, regardless of what comes out of their mouth, they just want to be heard, acknowledged and appreciated. Like, that's it. You may not have any strategies to solve their problem or to fix it and please don't step in to fix it mode. They literally just want to be heard, acknowledged and appreciated. And that would do so much to support your partner in the listening place. Okay, so then let's talk about some specifics. Don't talk over them. You need to be listening. That means your mouth is shut. That means you're not interjecting anything. You're just simply doing your best to stay present and to take a journey with them. There's a wonderful quote, and I can't remember who said it, but I love it because it's so true. Empathy means I will walk with you. That means I'm trying to take a journey with you and your experience to attempt to understand what your experience might be inside of yourself. And that's literally what we're attempting to do. As a listener, don't be planning your reply. They're going to talk and you might be. Instead of focusing on what they're saying so that you can understand and remember what it is they're saying, you're probably pre canning your reply to what it is they're saying. Saying that's not listening. Listening is just setting all of that aside and doing a focused, concerted effort on their journey, their experience. Remember, walk with me for a minute. Put your stuff down and walk with me for a minute. And that's why listening takes so much effort and energy. Number three, don't assume you know what's going to be shared. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. We've already had this conversation. I know how you feel about it. Let's move on. No, realize that even if this might be something you're listening to for the the tenth time, the hundredth time, the two thousandth time, the reason they're bringing it up again and again and again is because they're still not emotionally resolved with this conversation with you. And so you want it 2001 times. Because if you shut it down, dismiss it, negate it, rest assured it's coming back around again. So if you're really, really sick of it it, then I really, really behoove you to listen. Because if you understand it. That's your only chance of not having a repeat ten more times. Okay? And they're going to continue with this. Especially if it's something that's emotionally valuable, important with inside of them. They are going to bring it up as many times as they possibly can. Listen to me. When they stop bringing it up in your relationship because they just don't make any progress with it. That's the time, time and the moment that you are in so much trouble, they're going to give up in attempts to share it with you and they're going to go find someplace else to share it where they can be understood, heard and acknowledged. So just that's my like dun dun dun takeaway. If it's important and it keeps coming up, that means you need to make a greater effort to listen. Because this is important to them. Whether you relate to it, understand it or know it at all. This is something they're trying to communicate to you that is not going to stop. And when it does, you are in so much trouble. Your relationship is going to hang in the balance right there. Don't assume, you know, don't talk over them. Listen, understand, that's your job. Don't interrupt. Because we feel as we speak, emotional digestion and self exploration and understanding is happening for the person who is sharing. And that's why listening is such a gift. Like they are literally working some things out for themselves. And so if you're going to go anywhere with it, you're going to ask them questions about it, it's going to be a place of tell me more about that, help me understand, dive deeper in that. Now I listen. I know most of us try and avoid those experiences where if I go back to my. Your verbally abusive example, that's really hard to hear. But if somebody says that to me and you're mindful about what we're trying to help you understand here in our conversation today in the love shack, you would understand the best place for you to go as the listener, is to wow, that really hurts me. Help me understand more about why you see me in that light. Teach me and show me where that shows up for you. Because I want to understand it. Because that's the last thing I want to be for you. You. If you don't go there and you shut it down, then you have literally put in motion your inability to understand how that happens and you're probably likely to do it again. You might be doing some things that doesn't seem emotionally abusive to you, but if it's coming across as emotionally abusive to your partner, how do you think that's going to play out in that moment? It really doesn't matter per se what you think about it. Your moment of opportunity is to understand more about why they perceive you in that light and then you can do something, something to solve it. Oh my gosh. So when I use this word, oh my gosh. So when I use this phrase or I show up like this, or this is my body language, that's where you go, wow, I never knew. Okay, thanks so much for sharing that with me. It does not mean I'm verbally abusive, which takes me to the next one. Listening does not mean you agree. It doesn't mean it's your fault. It doesn't mean you're responsible. It just means you're doing your best to understand where another person is coming from. Please remember that, that again, this has so little to do with you, the listener, the gift giver, truly, and so much more to do with the person who is sharing. Okay, listen for understanding. It's a tell me more conversation. It's a help me understand conversation. Are you saying this just so that I'm clear? It's all about in the listening mode, understanding the person who is sharing. This exercise of this is what I heard you say. Did I get it all or is there something I'm missing? Is a great check in point. Once they've said what they've needed to say, ensures that you're not going to miss anything that was really important to them. And quite frankly, as a human being, you probably are right. Because this is hard work. Listening takes effort and energy and hard work. And it's a practice that you get better at the more you do it. And please, listener, my last super tip here, if you don't have the capacity to listen to somebody, please say so. Because if you don't believe me, they know. They know when you're listening and when you're not. So please don't try and fake it. It's to everybody's demise. You're gonna do a lot of yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, which is only going to get you in more trouble because they think you're listening and they think that you're making these promises and commitments that you're not even aware that you're making and keeping and then it's all going to come out on the backside at some point in time. So it would behoove you to say something along the lines of, I want to hear what you have to say. I'm Just not in a place to listen to you right now. Can we wait until the kids are in bed or until I'm in a better place to like truly focus on you and then sit down and listen with no distractions. Like focus on the person that's going to share and then if there are some things that you want to say and share when they're complete, say, okay, I have some things I would like to share with you about this. Are you in a place you can hear what I have to say about this and that's going to improve the quality of that sharing, listening.

Yeah, I would say this is a really important point. If you're not in the place and you don't have the capacity. Yeah, share that. But then what we find is a lot of times, let's talk about that later. But later never comes. So yeah, you can ask for a reprieve. You need some time. You're just not in the place to do that. But make sure that you then agree to when you are going to come back to it. Because if you dismiss it, then that's just more salt on the wound, right? It's an important to say. I mean there's many times it's like at night time I'm spent mentally. That's I am much more of a more. And sometimes station I say, babe, it's not in a tank right now. We got. Can we talk about this in the morning? It's just I don't have the. Even Brooke will remember even when they were kids. I'm more. As the day goes on, my mental capacity goes way down. And I say, I tell my Brooke and her brother, check with dad in the morning, man, it ain't there. Like bringing me some homework. Like I don't even have the bandwidth. Don't even read the first paragraph. Paragraph. It's not there and you got to catch me in the morning.

What? I just think that creates such a level of safety and trust in your relationship if you can receive it in the spirit in which it's given. When we feel like we haven't been listened to for a long period of time, we can actually be really frustrated by that comment. And I get that. But understand, if you really want to be heard, then it actually is important that you check in and make sure that the person you want to have listened to you who is present and available. Because if they're not, it's not going to go well anyway. It's just going to be yet another round of disappointment and frustration and nobody needs that. So I really appreciate it when Tom tells me that he doesn't have it in the tank. And quite frankly, when I come home from a long day too, sometimes I'll say, can we talk about this over coffee in the morning? I'm just not in a place to go there with you right now. I think that's being honest and it's also self validating for you to acknowledge that's okay for you to say. And it's all actually creating a lot more safety that when we do come together that we all understand what's required of us, right? That we're going to set it up for success. That if I'm going to take a moment to listen to you, then that's my role. I'm going to listen and then I know that there's going to be some things that come up for the person who's listening. If you're the sharer, for heaven's sakes, be mindful of that. Recognize that you're not the only one that has some things to say. And it can't just be all one way. That as you share, there are obviously going be to to be points of check in for you to examine what comes up for you. When I say this, please help me understand that you know what I said, those are points of check in that we want to get really mindful of. I'm just going to summarize our conversation with this one statement. I want you to understand most people don't listen to understand, which needs to be the goal. You're just seeking understanding. It's not agreement, it's not acknowledging, it's not going along with, it's not putting up with it. It's just understanding where another human being is living inside of themselves emotionally. That's typically what it is we want to share and talk about. I want to work it out for myself. I want to understand myself. So most people don't listen to understand, they listen to reply, which is not listening at all. And if they don't listen, I hope that you understand and know that this is what begins to break our relationships down. And yet our human desire is to simply be understanding understood. That's really what we're fighting for. And so if we can understand that, I hope that understanding gives you some ease about if you are in the listener position to realize that's your only goal is just to understand where they're coming from, literally. And if you're in the sharing role, understand that it takes a tremendous amount of effort and energy to listen to what it is you're saying. So the more specific you can be, the more you can take responsibility for the way you feel and what's not working for you. You and man. The caveat is if you can throw me a remedy that you've already thought of and ask me for something that you think is going to alleviate this for you, that's just going to help improve the quality of our communication overall and we're going to be talking about things that are more productive. And then for heaven's sakes understand this is not a one sided street, it's a two way street. If somebody is sharing that at some point in time I need to switch roles and I need to listen as the other person shares what's coming up for them after what it is I've said, I hope that helps you today. That's my intention here. Again, everybody just wants to be understood, okay? We all need to do and step into the ability and the skill of listening and sharing effectively. So let's have a little bit of fun. Today's Follow the fun I've titled Let's Dress Up. Here's what I know to be true even in my own relationship, that as the years pass, in our relationships, we seldom think about dressing up and going out. It doesn't need to be a huge night out on the town. It simply just needs to be dressing up to maybe visit an upscale wine or cocktail bar or a concert or a theater or even a fancy restaurant. Heck back. I mean even dancing if that's your thing. I think I'm due. I think.

Well, and we dressed up last week for your birthday, right? We had a really nice dinner and then we had a concert. We walked both places right from our own house, looking good, smelling good.

There is something about you and your lover getting all gussied up. The bathroom smells of soap and shampoo and your eye rolling colognes. I call them eye rolling because when I have a scent that like smells really, really good to me, me, I go, oh. And my eyes kind of do this eye rolling thing of like, oh my gosh, that smells so good.

Must be a Utah thing. I didn't understand that one.

Or maybe it's just a Stacy thing, I don't know. But man, there's something really good when everybody's like putting on their special cologne and perfume. And then there's the attention and intention that we put into everything from our sexiest underwear to our gorgeous outfits and adorning with precious jewels. It seems to put this air of electricity for me in the air and this sense of romance. And so this week, I want to encourage you to dress up. Like, to put the attention and intention into getting all gussied up. Think of it as we're putting special wrappings on ourselves because we really are the gift to our partners, and that is a precious place to be. And I don't care if you go down the street to. To someplace that's maybe not so fancy and dressy. The fact that you put the attention and intention into dressing up for your special someone is always going to create a really fun.

Well, I just had a thought. To be fair, I don't know if any of us have ever been asked to leave somewhere because you're looking too sharp. No, maybe the opposite. Like, what were you thinking? Whatever you have on. But think the opposite doesn't ever happen. Like, other than, like, wow, you look really nice.

Yeah. And it's funny, the longer we're together, the more we don't do this when it's so simple. I mean, it just. Just takes. How much time does it really take to get gussied up?

Same time or a little bit? Maybe more than. Yeah, than what it does. Whatever you throw on. So.

But it makes such a difference in just the expectation and the experience of the evening. And, gosh, it's just fun to do. So I'm going to encourage you to dress up and go somewhere, just. Even if it's a simple thing this week, I think that's incredible. And I just want you to know that you're going to be headed to. Do you want me to tell you? Drum roll. I'll keep a secret.

I already know. And why is that? Because Radar knows everything. I already know. You just haven't shared it yet.

But I know you know it's coming.

Yes, it's Saturday, and it's with our neighbor. Pretty smart, aren't I? Only because I read the text.

Oh.

You know, I wondered where you were and so anyway, it's a long story. That's for another episode, but that's kind of.

Let's wrap this episode up, shall we, with the can you feel it? Moment. Moment. This artist I'm going to introduce you to you today is not necessarily musically my favorite, but her lyrics are incredible. She is an incredible lyricist. Her name is Roxette, and she has a song that's titled you don't understand me. And the lyrics on that song were so spot on for our conversation inside the love shack today that I just had to share it with you. Here's what she has to say. Say you don't understand me. You don't seem to know that I need you. You don't understand my feelings, the reasons I do what I do. You don't get me and you don't really see that I live for your touch, for our dreams together and the things that I truly believe in. You don't understand me. And I think so many times that is the problem in our relationships. You simply just don't understand me. And if I feel like you don't understand me, I'm going to continue to come at you. You. And the way I come at you is oft times not good. It turns into a very frustrating, negative experience of criticizing, belittling, shutting down, doing, yelling, screaming, anything I can do to get your attention. Because literally at the end of the day, I just want you to acknowledge and understand me. And there's so much desire and hope and it's kind of like the more escalation there is in that, the more I just desire for you to understand me. Me. And so this song just kind of really punched me in the heart. You can check out this song on our website and on Spotify, we have a Love Shack live playlist that you can get this song as well as all the songs for every episode that we've ever done. And I want you to know how much it means to us to have you be a part of this conversation inside of the Love Shack with us today. And gosh, if this has been helpful for you, you would please do us the gift of sharing it and passing along to the people you feel in your. Your sphere of influence that would be helped or supported with this conversation, I would certainly appreciate it.

And if you find yourself, if this particular episode really resonated with you, that we sense it will, because it's a conversation that we see a lot of in all places. Stacy's working with people on clarity calls. Brooke is working and answering questions on social media. So I always remind people we're receiving live intel, all three of us as a family. And most importantly, many times if you're in stuck in this place of feeling like you're not listened to or if you're a little listener, they go, oh my gosh, it's just rah, rah, rah, wah, wah, wah. Many times it takes some skilled facilitation, takes people like us, whomever find someone that can support you, perhaps bring some permission and safety into your relationship, maybe for the first time in a long time, to where you can start really understanding and really experiencing, listening and sharing in the way that we've described. So you know what? There's no fault in knowing when things aren't going well. Well, to step up and say when I need some help. What we find is, and you hear us say it often is, don't wait. The average couple waits six years even after they know they need help. That's too long. Don't wait that long. So reach out to us. Reach out to someone and take a step. You can always go back to what's not working.

All right. Thank you so much for being here with us today and giving us some of your time. And if you by chance have a conversation that you want to share with us that we could potentially create as a show here in the Love Shack, please don't hesitate to reach out to me or us. And because we are dedicated to having the conversations that matter most to you. And so we wish you well. Have a great time dressing up, and we look forward to connecting with you again soon. Bye bye for now.

Okay, everybody, time to go. We gotta close the doors to the Love Shack for this week. You don't have to go home, but you can't stay here. Come back next week, though, and join us for another edition of Love Shack live with Tom and Stacy Bartley.