#139: Shattered Trust: Your Relationship's Road To Recovery

Imagine waking up one day and realizing that the foundation of your relationship, trust has been shaken to its core. The person you've shared dreams, secrets, and moments with has betrayed you. The pain is real, and the path forward seems uncertain. Welcome to Love Shack. Live the only sanctuary where we address the unspoken, the raw, and the real challenges of relationships. This isn't just another relationship talk. It's a deep dive into the heart of what truly matters. I'm Stacey Bartley, and I'm your beacon in the stormy seas of love. Having navigated countless relationship crossroads myself and guided many through theirs, I understand the intricacies of love's challenges, and I'm here to help you find clarity amidst the chaos. How do you rebuild trust after betrayal? Is it even possible to find your way back to the love and connection you once had? Join me today as we unravel the steps to healing, the essence of true communication and the journey to trust. But be prepared. The answers might surprise you. And the journey, though challenging, promises a destination of renewed love and understanding.

Hey, thank you for coming. Welcome to the Love Shack.

Now, if you're like most of us as human beings, when we think about the word betrayal, we typically immediately go to affairs, emotional and physical affairs. And yes, we're going to talk about how to recover from those as well in this episode. But I also, before we do that, want to point out that there are lots of other forms of betrayal that we sometimes don't give any cadence to, but absolutely undermine our relationships in very similar fashions. It's just more of a slow burn that leads up to an emotional or physical affair. And then we cite the affair as the problem without being mindful and aware that actually there's been subtle forms of betrayal that we don't count as betrayal, but that has kind of been undermining the relationship all along.

Could you give me an example of one of those?

We actually have a whole episode on betrayal where we point out and go specifically through all the forms of betrayal. And I just want to say now that that's episodes number 46 and 47 here in the Love Shack, but let me mention a couple of them that you just might relate to, because chances are they're going to show up in the majority of all relationships. So you've either done it or you've seen it. You can spot it, but you maybe didn't title it or label it like I'm to discuss. The first and most common one is what I call a lack of committed. Yes, it's like me going, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not saying, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll do that or I'll take care of that, because I'm going to do it. I'm saying it so that you'll get off my back, leave me alone. I'm doing it to avoid a fight. And then I pay no attention to the thing that I've just committed to do. So inevitably, I don't do it.

So that's sharing with our partner exactly what he or she wants to hear without any regard of really whatever here.

Yeah. And then when it comes to the. A broken commitment, I go, well, that's stupid anyway. I don't know why you're asking me to do that. You shouldn't. Without taking responsibility for the fact that, look, you said you were gonna do it. If you're not gonna do it, then say you're not gonna do it. The problem happens and the betrayal sets in. When I say, yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever, I'll take care of that. Okay, okay, get off my back. And then you don't do it because you really had no intentions of doing it in the first place. The reasons that you were saying, yeah, yeah, yeah, yes, I'll handle it was just to avoid the fight, the conflict, to appease the other person. But you really had no intentions of doing it at all. So it doesn't get done. Then you make up a story about how you shouldn't have to do that. And that's a ridiculous ask. And I've done it thousands of times. It's your turn. You should have to do it. We can turn it and flip it, but what we don't realize we're doing is we're creating a place of betrayal there where what you're saying is, I can't count on what you say you're going to do. And so that makes me feel as though I can't continue to trust you. And we're going to talk about trust here briefly, but I just want to point out that's a very common form of betrayal.

So everything that you're going to be sharing then in the remainder of our episode here today, you can use all of these frameworks and skill sets to apply to these lesser recognized forms of betrayal.

Yes, the same principles apply. It's just going to be to the emotional intensity level. So an affair, obviously an emotional affair is going to be of increased intensity in comparison to, you know, gosh, you said you were going to pick up the chicken. Where the heck is the chicken? And the chicken, I'm gonna probably be able to Overlook, and then overlook again and overlook again. But at some point in time, there's also going to be an emotional intensity behind that as well. Because you continuously, I continuously risk you keeping that agreement with me. And you continuously make up a story or an excuse as to why that's not happening. And little by little, my ability to trust that you're gonna do that, to believe in what you're saying, starts to show up in all these other little places too. The chicken becomes a lot of other things that I feel like I can't count on you. The problem with betrayal are two things. Number one, obviously trust is a huge issue. And that's usually the first thing that's cited in some kind of an egregious betrayal or small betrayal. I question to myself whether I can trust you around this topic. Maybe it's money, maybe it's taking care of the kids, maybe it's some of these other areas in our lives that we co create. And that's a problem because then I start believing that I can trust you. And so I will make adjustments inside of myself. And that could look like pushing you out, not including you in the conversation, disregarding anything you have to say about a particular topic. And this begins to divide us, but sometimes we don't realize that it is. So it begins to create this place where I can't talk to you about this. I'm not going to value your input on that. And it slowly but surely starts to. To create space and sacrifice what I call the emotional safety. So let's briefly touch on two of those things because I want you to understand what I'm talking about here. Let's talk about the trust first. There's a misnomer in trust and lots and lots of conversations out there about how trust is broken and how do you rebuild it and what is it really and how do we go about that. And for a lot of us, it feels like this very nebulous thing that we can't wrap our heads around. So I want to simplify it down for you. I want you to understand that trust is built when we risk with our partner or when we take a risk. So I can build trust in myself or I can build trust in others. And it always happens and begins with a risk. So when I really say I can't trust you anymore, what I'm really saying is I'm not willing to risk with you anymore in this arena. Because trust is something that I give. It is not something that I receive from another person. It's also something that's built over time. So when a betrayal happens and we need to create, shall I say, a do over in regards to how we move forward in our relationship. Relationship. What I'm really saying is I need to shrink the risk that I'm taking with you, create a better foundation for us to begin to rebuild little by little by little. Because as we do that and we keep these agreements that we have little by little, then we can risk and risk and risk bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger with you. And then pretty soon I feel like I can fully trust you again. But we have to kind of begin small. So in the case of the chicken, for example, I'm going to have to say what is it that I can do to trust that when you tell me you're going to do something, I can count on you to do that. That's the problem. And we're going to have a conversation about that and then we're going to say, okay, let's go again. And if you're successful, then I'm going to include you again. And little by little, then we can start to be able to rebuild that trust I have with you or that ability to risk with you that I can count on you to pick up the chicken or to take out the trash if I'm not willing to begin small. And I just want to like brush it off and get over you get over it. Just want to flip it on you and make it your fault that I made a commitment to you and then I broke it. That's going to continue to be a breach or a betrayal that's going to continuously break down our trust and more importantly, the safety, emotional safety in our relationship. For us to have conversations about do overs and repairing our relationship and how do we move forward in a brand new way like that option kind of comes off of the table. The more and more I feel uncomfortable risking with you.

May I ask a question?

Yeah.

Do you find that the greater the betrayal? So let's just say, and let's just speak directly to an unfair, whether it's emotional or physical, affair. So in that, in those cases, in working with your clients, do you find that taking those small steps to rebuild incrementally and smaller, more difficult due to the magnitude of the betrayal? Do those kind of run concurrent?

What ends up happening when an affair happens? It's like if you've had an affair, then I'm refusing to trust you in any of, of these other categories of life. It's like everything that we've experienced, all the, all the Bad up to this point of affair doesn't count and it was worthless and we just need to throw the whole thing in the trash. And I want you to understand that that's a cognitive bias. That is not true. All the good things that you've created, all the great moments you've experienced, all the wonderful times that we were successful in creating or co creating together still count. You don't have to, as they say, throw the baby out with the bathwater, but we have a tendency to do that. Oh, geez, it's over. Everything that we've done and everything I thought we were creating and everything I experienced and felt with you emotionally is trashed. Don't do that to yourself. It creates a tremendous amount of pain and it's simply not true.

And would you say that affairs are the largest component to people not staying together?

No. But it absolutely is probably the most talked about and the most impactful in a single blow. But if you start to look at affairs, you and you start to piece them apart, you start to realize that there was a lot of betrayal in small ways going on behind the scenes in the first place that eventually culminated into some kind of what we call call a catalytic event or a moment where we kind of get a default option because we didn't know how to deal with the smaller forms of betrayal. And we know about life and love that those things that we don't want to face and take on and address in the time when they're little things become really big things. And just to put that into context, just think about finances. You know, those money problems that you don't want to face and you don't want to take on and you don't want to face the debt and you don't want to work with it and you don't want to set a budget and you don't want to live within the means, you know what's happening per se. There's just a tremendous amount of resistance and maybe some learning and education about how to face it, manage it and deal with it. And so if that's the case, then we just put it off for as long as possible. And the next thing you know, we're really behind the eight ball and the car's getting repossessed or the utilities are getting turned off, or we have to sell our house. So those are examples of exactly what happens in affairs.

So I would say the same thing. You could apply what you just shared to them. Medical challenge too, right? I mean, so very similar progression. If we don't address it absolutely.

I have a medical situation, or in my particular case, I have an autoimmune. It's a really small deal. But if it was not tracked and taken care of and monitored, that simply could get out of control and start affecting very significant, serious health challenges inside of my own body. So that happens. We have to face some things, and because we're human beings, some things are really difficult to face and take on. It takes courage and it takes support sometimes and hand holding. That's true when it comes to love and relationships as well. And that's why you're going to hear us. If you listen to our podcast or you're new to our podcast, you're going to hear us say often, please don't wait, because the waiting part doesn't make it any better. The principles that govern the world and life in which we live as human beings has this natural progression or escalation of things that need our attention. And it's going to continue to increase in intensity until it does eventually get our attention one way or the other. So we encourage you to face it sooner rather than later. And all of our work is designed to give you that support. To just put a toe in the water and begin wherever you are up to and including our Better Love Club.

That's.

That's what that's all about. You don't have to schedule a session. Come on in, put a toe in the water, see what it's like. Start exploring the resources that are available to you so that you can start facing it. And sometimes that takes some time to build some courage, and sometimes your partner needs a little more time to build that courage. But that doesn't mean you should wait. So let's step into the next topic about recovering from betrayal, shall we? Got off on a little bit of a tangent there, but I think it wasn't important. One, betrayals come in small forms and big forms. And as we have already just said, affairs are kind of the escalated version and the accumulation of small betrayals over time. Having said that, we clean them up in very similar ways. Okay, so the first thing that happen has to happen if some form of betrayal has happened is there has to be a cleaning up of the mess. We can't move on if there isn't some kind of an acknowledgement of what's happened. As far as the mess. And I like to take emotional messes, because that's what they are, and liken them unto physical messes. We wouldn't just disregard a physical mess and expect everything to go back to A place where I enjoy being or feel comfortable existing. If I just said, ah, yeah, don't worry about that mess over there, that trash in the corner, that broken glass or plate or, you know, dog pooped on the floor, whatever, you know, just, it's fine, we're not going to address it. Let's just keep moving on. And you start to see little by little, that would become an uninhabitable place to be. And it happens like that emotionally as well.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah, don't worry about it. It's no big deal. Why don't you get over that? I don't need to apologize for that. That's stupid. Okay, okay, okay. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. All right, can we move on? No, we can't move on because we haven't cleaned up the mess. And if by chance you need to know how to clean up a mess efficiently and effectively, because we like to do these things quickly, I like to say clean up the mess fast and let's move on. We don't want to spend any time there, but we tend to hang out there for a time like days, months, years, sometimes lifetimes, when really all we need to know is how to clean it up quickly. And there's a whole episode dedicated to this conversation. So I'm not going to go into the juicy details of the apology or taking responsibility of cleaning up the emotional mess. But if this is something you're feeling like you want to dive into, please check out episode 110 and we'll walk you through all those parts and pieces. So in today's conversation, I'm going to assume that you know how to, to clean up a mess. And I'm going to step into the next piece of conversation. I touched on trust and the whole thing that we're going to do here is to reestablish a place where I'm willing to risk with you. That's it. Because then we're going to need to go again and we're going to build on that in small ways. And step by step, we're going to get better at rebuilding the trust and the safety in our relationship so that we can begin co creating in better ways. Excuse me. So an affair is basically, I'm going to break it down into three phases. If by chance you're in an affair, you're going to go through three phases of repair, okay? To get yourself out of this, there's going to be the chaos phase. And this is going to be the phase where we find out finally what's happened or what's been going on. It's the moment where we go, oh, my gosh, I can't believe it. And it's the moment the person realizes they got to come clean. And there's a tremendous amount of emotional intensity that goes off on both sides around this moment. The person who's maybe being revealed or uncovered might find a sense of panic, but then usually that's accompanied by a sense of relief because they don't want to carry it anymore. And if a repair is possible in this place, it is absolutely going to require the person who has done the betrayal to take responsibility for it, clean up the mess, and actually pursue repairing the relationship. And you're going to understand why those things are important here. As we start moving through the phase.

I just want to highlight this stage because I feel like a lot of times when we are talking about affairs on social media, which we do a lot, people miss this part of what you're saying, and they think that we just had a comment today of this woman saying, I'm very triggered by what you're saying when in the video where you're talking about how to rebuild agreements after an affair. And I believe she was triggered by the part where you say monitoring and all the traditional agreement are not the way to repair trust after an affair. Those will make you go crazy. The person who's doing all the monitoring will go crazy. And she said, well, I'm very triggered by this because it seems like you're telling me it was my fault and he has no accountability and I manipulated him and all of these things when it's like, no, that's what. That's not what we're saying. The fact that we as a family kind of have a more radical view of recovering from affairs because we believe it's possible. I think people just totally disregard everything else we're saying. They don't hear us when we say no. Actually, the person who had the affair has to acknowledge it. They have to be sorry for it. There has to be a genuine moment where they say, I understand the pain I caused you. All of these things have to be there in order to recover from the affair. I know you already said all this, but I just feel like it's really important. If you're listening to this episode and you're feeling triggered, just go back and listen to step one again, because we're not telling you that you're supposed to.

Pass all of that.

You have to have this first step before you can do anything else.

No, really. Well said, Brooke. I'll just stack on that. I just wrote this down on my own notes and. What Stacey, if I think I heard her. Exactly. Actually, you have to want to pursue the repair. So, yes, as Brooke said, we are not at all misstating on how difficult this is. But yes, we know, because we've helped people do it. But it is possible to transform this very difficult situation. It is. So that's what we know. It's not hyperbole, if you will, because we've done it. Is it hard?

Heck, yeah.

It's going to kick your fanny. It absolutely will, for sure. Let's just come clean.

And I want to. I'm going to do my best to kind of like seesaw between the affair conversation and smaller betrayals, because it's just the same if you've forgotten. I'm going to continue to use the chicken just because it's top of mind.

Have I forgot the chicken late?

Like, no. I don't know why I'm coming up with chicken. I have no rhyme or reason for that. We won't take the time to decide where that's coming from now. But chicken seems to be the thing you forgot and the thing I'm really upset about in my image, in my head. So if we go back to the conversation around the chicken, in order to move on from that and to give us both another chance to risk with each other again and being able to count on you for the promises that you make to me, we have to go through that process of cleaning up the mess, which means, I'm sorry I forgot the chicken. And then what's helpful is there's always a wonderful place of being able to help me understand what was happening for you so that it makes sense in my mind that it wasn't because you didn't care about me or it was a thoughtless effort, and that's important. And that's often the part in cleaning up the mess that we forget. There's an I'm sorry I forgot the chicken. Okay, can we just move on? But if you tell me that it wasn't about me and it had nothing to do with your commitment to us, that I was running, I was rushed, I was thinking about these other things. I'm so sorry I forgot the chicken, then that starts to make sense and it makes it easier for me to let it go. Because when there's voids in these places, we're going to fill them in with our crappy, what I call internal movie and that internal movie, meaning the things I make up that are probably true that explain to me in my own mind why you forgot the chicken is going to be things that are of my worst nightmare. They're going to be things like you don't care about me, you don't think about me, you don't desire me, you don't want me, I don't matter to you. And that's just human of us. It's our little brains that go okay, I have to be careful because in relationships there is no greater place of risk and sometimes we forget that being in a relationship and co creating with another human being opens us up to a tremendous amount of things we let go of control over so that I can co create with you. And the more I care sometimes the more those insecurities with inside of me tend to flare. So when you forget the chicken I can go all kinds of crazy places that aren't going to make sense to you when you know for yourself that you just simply forgot the chicken. For me I'm going all these crazy places like because of my own personal insecurities. So don't leave a void. All that to say when we leave a void and there's not a place for understanding. We tend to make up a whole bunch of stuff that just doesn't.

If I may, let me just unpack and stack on what Brooke just shared a little bit ago and I perhaps this is why this can be so triggering for us because the response that we're seeing is not the response of what we're doing teaching and coaching and advocating right now. And it would be absolutely 100 understandable if this is the response we get. What the heck? You just put me through X and this is your response so I can get it. We understand why that's so triggering but if we could just please, with great love and respect ask you to truly listen to what we're saying or watch what we're saying depending where you find this. We are trying to help you understand if you can reset it if you will and get it to a place to where both people can navigate this very difficult situation in a brand new way that's not taught out there or modeled, then yes, it will be far less triggering for you because you're going to have a much different emotional interaction among through this difficult process. Does that make sense? Hopefully yeah, it did for me.

So here we're still in phase one.

Sorry.

Yeah, I promise we're going to pick up the pace here a little bit. But here in phase one there's going to be the panic. There's going to be the emotional intensity, the surprise. This is where we feel the full weight of the betrayal. And so a couple of things. Don't make any rash decisions here, like realize that you are in a panic state. Sometimes we even go into shock in this place. And so we don't want to do anything that's going to, you know, basically make a final decision or reaction that there's going to be time to sort it all out and decide what is to be and how we're going to go about this. But in the first phase, that is not the place to be making those kinds of decisions. There has to be a settling and there's all kinds of biological reasons as to why that's the case. I'll give you the snippet that basically you're going to feel a lot of emotion and your brain's not going to be able to make sense of it all. So you don't want to do anything that's reactive in that moment to the very best of your ability. Because chances are when it all gets sorted out and our brain comes back online, you're going to have some things like, oh, why did I do that? Or why did I say that? Or oh my gosh, I've really got myself in a box now. Just suspend the opportunity to do a knee jerk reaction there because it's going to save you a lot of grief down the road. So I get it hurts. There's probably going to be an emotional reaction or experience. Just don't make any big decisions about what we're going to do. Let that take some time.

I think it's really important to get help as quickly as possible when you are in this place. And mom two says don't make rash decisions. One rash decision you can make is to get help ASAP because it's impossible to go through this and come out healthy on the other side without it.

Yeah, absolutely. I think that's well said. And that begins with taking responsibility. Everybody's got to be willing to take responsibility. And as I already said, and I'm going to say it again, the person who betrayed has got to take responsibility for that and also needs to pursue the repair of the relationship. Like you can't rebuild from an affair and literally you can't rebuild from any betrayal. Quite frankly, if the person who's doing the betraying doesn't want to take responsibility for it, doesn't want to clean it up, doesn't want to address it, and they're literally just asking you to continue to risk with them. Regardless of the outplay or the outcome for you, it'll be fine. You're overreacting. It should not be any big deal. That is not something that you can repair from. That will continuously be the breakdown of not only the relationship at the person who continues to hang around. In fact, that's a great red flag for what we call trauma bonding. Okay. And that'll be a whole another conversation and episode. We're going to have to do it another time. I'm not going to go into it here, but trauma bonding is afoot. If somebody is wanting you to stick around just because. But they're not willing to clean up their mess and they're asking you to just go ahead and risk with me again and let me be in charge and in control. And yet there's no rebuilding of the relationship per se. It's just a continuous breakdown. Okay. So that's important. There. There's a moment there where we can just kind of do some thoughtful reflection. So the first phase is going to quickly melt into the second phase. This work comes from Esther Perel and Tammy Nelson. And phase two is called the insight phase. And this is where we want to gain insights into what happened. And this is the understanding phase that I was talking about just a minute ago. And this is going to be the. The ability and the opportunity to gain insights as to why the person who crossed the line justified the decision to do so. It's kind of like we know that there were lines and commitments broken. What happened for you that justified it in your own mind's eye? Those are the things that start to help us rebuild. Because I'm getting that piece of understanding about why this happened instead of just me making up a bunch of narrative as to why. I think. And there's some important sharing that comes out of the insight phase. And we have a whole list of questions that you can explore with your person that help us gain the insights that we need in order to grow and move forward in our relationships instead of it becoming punitive. And it's the punitive part that's going to stalemate this whole process. Just because. And let me. I'm trying to think of a really good way to say this. When we make a mistake, there's all kinds of reasons that that mistake is going to be made in this painful place, especially with an affair. And the emotional intensity, you might say, this isn't a mistake. This is much worse than just a mistake. And I get it. But it is really a mess. And the mess and the mistake was made because the person who betrayed you started to make up a bunch of things like how you were going to react, your willingness to address it. Really what's happening is there's an emotional need there that they've grown wary of living with and they don't muster up the courage to tell you what's going on and that they're not happy and that this is important to them and they need it. And so there's aspects of the relationship that they love and they don't want to discontinue. And so they make up a really great story about why it's okay to cross those lines. That's the story you want to find out. And we've got a whole series of questions inside of our Better Love Club. If by chance you are repairing from an affair that you would want to go through and gain some insights in regards to that understanding piece that's so important. So once we've taken responsibility for the mess, we begin cleaning it up with that insight phase. And what we're really after is the understanding piece that we need so that we can understand a how we arrived here. And then that's also going to reveal where it is we want to go next. Okay. And we need those things in order to be able to move through this and to repair this betrayal piece. I also want to just point this out that an affair, as I've said often, is always a wake up call or a breakup call. Sometimes I have an affair because I feel like it's over anyway and I'm not going to wait for you to end it. I'm going to end it instead. And the, the. And I'm going to do it through this affair that I'm going to have. And I intentionally do want to get caught. I just didn't know how to tell you I was leaving, that I was unhappy. I'm going to go this other route and have it just be discovered. You're going to be able to vet that out. When I say, did they take responsibility for it and do they want this? They're going to need to pursue it. That's another reason why those two things in phase one are so important. So as we gain these insights and these understandings about what happened and how we arrived here, we're going to move into phase, phase three. And phase three is basically where we create a new vision of our relationship going forward. The relationship that you've been in and that you've had up to that moment, it's done, it's over. But the opportunity to recreate something new or to create what I call a do over is absolutely present and on the table. And what it's going to take is for us to take the insights that we've gained in phase two and turn them into agreements that we can work within our relationship to rebuild some of that trust in phase, phase three. Now let's talk about agreements for a minute because those are important. And yes, there are going to have to be agreements that surround the ability to rebuild. Remember, trust is something I give. And really what I'm saying is this is what I need in order to risk with you again. And that's where your agreements are going to come from. And so oft times, especially after an affair, there are things that we want to agree to. I want to be able to check your phone. I want us to agree that we're not going to entertain relationships with the opposite sex. I would love you to be home every night after work at such and such a time. Now, these are fine agreements. They really are. I'm not saying you shouldn't have agreements like that. I just want to create a distinction here. What you're looking for again are agreements that are going to help you risk again. Okay? So if you're coming from that place, great, ask for those agreements to be met. But if you're using them to punish your person because they've done that, this terrible thing that has created a tremendous amount of pain in your relationship and you're using it to make them pay, like they have to do this because you say so, and you're using it as a leverage point, you're not doing what I'm telling you to do. You're doing a game of power and control and manipulation instead. Because what you're doing is you're trying to slip into the power position and call all the shots, make them pay, beat them down, because you think that this is going to help you feel better. And unfortunately that's going to continue to break down the safety and trust in your relationship. It's not going to rebuild trust. And your partner who has betrayed you might go along with it for a minute because they won't desire the relationship, they desire to repair this with you. But if that continuously is the conversation that's happening, what's going to happen is they're going to grow weary and frustrated and resentful and they're gonna. They're gonna bail out. And then it re injures us all again. And I'm going back through the trauma of that betrayal again. And the person who's trying to rebuild this trust with all this long, lengthy set of agreements that are monitoring and tracking and making themselves crazy. It's going to be another disappointment of betrayal for you. And you don't realize how you set it up, okay? Because there is no forward progress there there. Nobody can move on and begin the repair and the rebuilding. If I'm constantly being penalized for what's happened, I'm going to grow tired of trying to prove and demonstrate that to you. And regardless of what it is I try and do or allow you to do, it just never seems to be enough because you're constantly adding to the list of agreements in an effort to. For you to feel more secure and stable and better. And that's not the way that you're going to be able to create that. Making somebody pay always creates a dynamic where everybody pays. And in this arena, it's no different.

Different.

So again, I just want to make sure and Brooke, I'm going to check in with you as I'm saying this. I just want to make sure that that is a huge piece of distinction that comes through loud and clear. It's not that you can't have agreements like that. I want you to look at the intent for having them. And it is not your license to beat them up and punish them for what has happened. It is the intent of the relationship to move through it, to move on, to rebuild. And that's what our intention and our focus here is on this conversation. You've got to have agreements to help you do that.

What about people who feel like they want to get revenge? I think that is where a lot of these questions are coming from, from our audience because we always say, if our friend's boyfriend had an affair, my husband had an affair on me, you guys would be upset with him for doing that. So all the people that we go to for support when these things happen, they're mad at the person who had the affair. So how, as the partner of the person who had an affair, how do we stop feeling that way and want and stop having the feeling of wanting to get revenge or manipulate and focus on rebuilding? How can we make that switch? Because I feel like that's a lot. That's our human nature of feeling that way. So how could. What are some simple ways or some tips you have of helping us change our mindset so that we can get.

There to do that? Great question.

Was really good question.

The first thing that you need to understand is the emotion that you're feeling is emotion that we need to digest down, we need to experience and express. But expressing it and taking it out on your partner is not going to make you feel better. Actually, it's going to make you feel worse because you turn into a person you never wanted to be and you say and do things you never wanted to do. And that's why. Why having these long lists of monitoring and tracking and penalizing and reliving again, the trauma of what's happening or happened continues to be this elusive way through. If I can make you pay and hurt like I hurt and feel the disappointment and betrayal that I have felt, then somehow that's going to vindicate me and take away my pain. And what I need you to understand is. No, it doesn't. It makes you feel worse about the person that you are. And that's going to be the thing that kicks your fanny and creates a tremendous amount of breakdown in yourself. Do those emotions need to be expressed? Absolutely. And that's where I say, and Brooks has said, and Thomas said, get some help and support with this because those need to be expressed and looked at and understood by yourself. But thinking that you're going to create pain and suffering for somebody else and you're going to do that by way of choice is going to make you feel better. It doesn't. It just makes you feel worse about yourself. And then it literally dismantles safety and trust that you're so desperately attempting to build. Really, at the end of the day, to get through this, this, it's going to basically compromise that. And this is why there you don't see more demonstrations of getting through an affair, quite frankly. Not that both people didn't want it, not that both people didn't love each other, but when the emotions are flashing really high, we tend to come to all kinds of conclusions that quite frankly, are just not based in principle.

Let me just ask you a question then. So when we have a client that has been through this very significant catalytic event and you're able to work, walk both husband, wife, partners together through the process that we're sharing now versus what Brooke said, I think is great. Does the one that's been on the. The perpetrator end, there's the person that isn't in the affair, then the one that.

The betrayed and the betrayee.

Okay, so is the betrayee able to still be heard and share their, you know, pain and hurt and such, but not from a place of revenge? Is that. Are you able to have both sides understand the gravity of the situation?

Absolutely. And that's an important Part of the insight phase days where it's okay to feel the way you feel. It's okay to feel the disappointment and the sadness and maybe even the revenge.

Brook said.

Yeah, and the revenge and the resentment and. But sharing and expressing those feelings is not the same as acting them out. And if we don't express them in a healthy manner, then we are going to act them out. And that's where we really sacrifice, is the opportunities for us to do what it is we really want to do at the end of the day.

And that's another area, I think where we're misunderstood is we are not telling people that they are not supposed to feel those things. We are. I think people think we're saying, move past all that as quick as you can and then heal it. No, that's not what we're saying at all. We're saying that that is so natural to feel that way. But just like you said, mom, too, you don't have to act it out, but we want you to feel it. Because if you don't feel it, then you're just going to shove it down and it's going to come up in 10 years or five years or one year down the road.

Well, you'll act it out for that 10 years. Yeah, or one year or whatever. So there are great, healthy ways to express that emotion and be able to say it in a way that it gets heard. That. That. That insight and that understanding can be the thing that comes to the forefront of the relationship, and then that helps us move into that final phase, which is the re envisioning phase. And it's going to take new agreements to help us get there, because we have to build step by step, little by little. And again, I need to find a place where I'm comfortable risking with you, or I'm not going to be able to continue. And that's both sides. That's both sides. So there has to be agreements that we willingly choose into. Not because you've got a gun to my head, but because it makes sense. And I'm going to be able to willingly choose into keeping those agreements because I understand that these are what you need in order to risk with me again. So if I want to rebuild a relationship with you, even though some of those might be, in my mind, unnecessary or petty or silly, if that's what you need to risk with me again, and that's what you're telling me you need, and I want this to go, then I'm going to go. Okay.

Okay.

If that's what it's going to take good. I'm in. I will willingly agree to that. And as we evaluate those things week after week, which I encourage you to do, then I want you to look for not perfection, but progress. Are we getting better at this? Are we being able to count on each other and trust each other again? And then little by little, we can expand those agreements and the risk that we're taking together and that's how we're going to rebuild my willingness us to really risk big with you again. It happens a little bit over time, but it's not that you're hanging something over my head to get my compliance. I'm willingly do it because I want to rebuild a relationship with you too. So it often becomes this very punitive place where one person feels like they can do or behave or say or ask anything and you'd better comply or else I just have. With all the loving kindness in the whole wide world, I need you to understand that's not rebuilding a relationship. That's not rebuilding trust, that's not rebuilding safety to myself. Move through this, you're now entering into a game of manipulation and power and control and the tables have just shifted.

And I would also say that by doing it in the way that you are prescribing, by recovering from the affair in such a different way than the way that normally people think of, you're also giving less power to the affair and you're taking away that fear that I would say a lot of victims of affairs have of, oh my God, it's going to happen again. Any minute I'm going to get the call that he's having an affair again. Any minute I'm going to get a text that I'm not supposed to see. When you rebuild it together so consciously, you're becoming more connected and you're, you know, doing all these things as a couple that you didn't do before the affair. And I just think it also helps in a way you're not even trying to. It removes the fear of it happening again.

Yes, absolutely. I'm so glad you brought that up because if it does become some kind of a punitive thing, there's going to be some resistance and, and quite frankly some resentment on the others because you're not allowing me the space to choose into this. Not that I don't want to rebuild our relationship, but I feel all of a sudden I just have to be your subject and you get to do whatever you want. To me, that is not a place of rebuilding and it's Only a matter of time before that person goes, I've had enough. And it also doesn't curtail that insecurity of waiting for the other shoe to drop. Exactly. It creates it.

Yeah.

You know, know that this isn't working on some level intuitively. You're not rebonding, you're not recreating anything different. There's just somebody now that's plotting through the motions again. It's just a role reversal. And now you're calling the shots and you're waiting for them to comply. So you're metering, you're hyper vigilant in regards to tracking everything they do and everything that they say, they know it and they start to pull back. And so then you start to reel some more. And so it's a total setup. So I love that you pointed that out because this is a place where we want to start learning better ways to lean in and navigate through this. And we have to start where we are and we have to take steps, steps towards where it is we want to go. And that's why that phase three is so important. And that's why agreements that we can willingly choose into and truly desire to keep is going to be the foundation with which we can rebuild this. Excuse me, this breach on. And as we're successful with these, it's important that they're successful. And don't worry, I'm going to give you like a step by step as it relates to agreements. But it's really important that this become the foundation where we can start creating successes and we can start creating creating momentum in the direction that we want to go. And everybody's willingly choosing in to do it because you desire the relationship between the two of you. Like that's the key. That's what we're after. And sometimes we forget that. That's the whole point of the whole deal, is that I want this to go well. I want to co create with you again. I want us to be able to create some longevity out of this. And it's going to take some redesign and some new skills and some new perspectives on everybody's part in order to do do that.

May I be as Amy likes to call you, you're the elephant wrangler. Let's just speak to the elephant in the room right now. What if the person that had the affairs I don't give a dang, like I could really care less about, well, then you're done.

Okay. I don't know how more simply to the elephant, if they don't want to work on it. If they're not willing to clean it up, if they're not willing to grow and lean in step by step by step with you, then you really don't have much to work with. So you have a choice. You, you stay because you're gonna somehow find a place to get comfortable in this situation knowing that they're going to continuously do that. And then you set yourself up, individual safety and strategy all by yourself. But you've got to be willing to let go of that idea of co creating with this person because they're obviously not willing to do that. So just tell the truth. Don't try and live, don't try and have it both ways.

Why was I say, you know, to people like you're going to get your answer now whether that's whatever you choose to do with your answer, that's totally up to you. But you're going to get, you're going to get an answer.

And I have, I have no opinion about that too. I'm not saying that you should leave. No. Because sometimes there are reasons to stay. You just have to admit what is where the pain and the conflict comes from. You're wanting to set up a relationship on one side where we can co create life together and the other person refuses to participate in that. You have to tell the truth about that. When these things become evident and it's okay for you to stay in that relationship and maybe there's some other benefits, financial or for the kids or those things that you're wanting to see play out, you just have to then create a safe place for yourself in order to function and live in this environment and stop expecting that person to co create with your you because obviously they're not choosing into that. So okay, that's great. Find ways to do that that aren't from continuing to drive yourself crazy, bang on them, force them to basically comply. Look for places of leverage and manipulation and that because that's just again going to make you feel terrible about who you're becoming and it's not going to give you what you want anyway. They have to willingly choose in to do these things.

That's well said.

Okay. Okay, so and when it comes to the agreements, I just, I promised I was going to give you a little bit of summary here as we wrap up this conversation. It's important that you keep an eye on these distinctions. What's going to ease the fears and increase the willingness to risk again on both sides are the agreements that you want to both choose into. And that's the Reason you're putting them on the page, not to make them pay, not because they have to, not because they should. You're going to sacrifice the potential of rebuilding safety if this comes from a place of leverage, of manipulation and control. So you're laying these agreements out because this is what I feel like in this moment I need to have you agree to so that I'm willing to risk with you again. And quite frankly, there might be things on the betrayer side that are necessary too that are going to help them continue to show up and speak up and tell the truth about what's going on for them. And so we want to make sure that it's not just a one sided agreement maker, but that we both put agreements on the page that we feel like are going to help us go in that direction of rebuilding trust and that help us risk with each other again. And that's the reason they're on the page. Not to make it a punitive thing, et cetera. I think I banged on that enough. I continue to circle back around it though because this is the number one place where we don't make any progress at all.

How about the opposite of punitive? Like we often remind our clients, like don't give an answer you think you're partner wants to see or hear would. Right, that'd be the same opposite. But don't do that either.

Make them doable. Don't create a long lengthy list. Create maybe five that you feel like are going to really move the needle for you. I can't have 27 things because I'm going to blow it. You're going to set yourself up for failure. Three to five things on that list that are critical key components to helping you just risk.

Can you give us an example of a couple of those that would make sense and kind of the depth of the agreement? Agreement in this first place.

Yeah. Often what commonly shows up is on the betrayer side. Okay, please don't attack me when I have something to say that you don't agree with. Please just take a breath and hear me out first. And on the other side it's going to be I would really appreciate the opportunity to check your text messages or would you please delete the contact information of this person that you had an affair with? Would you please delete them off of social media? These are things that are appropriate in the context with which we're talking about. About. Gotcha. Okay. And. And of course, if that's going to help you risk with me, I'm going to go, yeah, Absolutely, I will. I will. That's showing good faith and that I really do want to rebuild this relationship. That's a demonstration. And again, I'm going to say it again if it helps. You want to risk with me again so we can rebuild this relationship. And that's what I want. I'm going to do it. But don't make me feel like I don't have a choice in the matter. That's where I'm going to get ticked. That's where I'm going to go. This feels more like a punishment than us rebuilding our relationship. I think there's enough said on that. I'm feeling compelled to say it again, but I'm not. Not. I'm going to resist the urge because this is where we break down. What you're looking for in needing from each other with these agreements is reassurance, demonstration, and patience. You need time to rebuild this a little bit over time. So I would encourage you to focus on those three things. You're needing reassurance, you're needing demonstration, which is the keeping of those agreements, and you're needing time on your side. Side. Okay, so we have our three to five agreements now that we've put a lot of thought into on both sides. We put these on a piece of paper, we both feel good about keeping them. I want to knock this out of the park. It's really important, especially as we begin, that this is a place where you know you can be successful with what you're agreeing to do. Because if you're not successful, you're going to go through another breach of betrayal again. So we really want to set the this up for a win on all sides. So put smaller but important things there down that you know you can actually knock out of the park.

But for heaven's sakes, don't put something down there that you for sure know that you can't keep. Yes.

Yes.

Don't do that.

Yes. Then we're going to reevaluate it intentionally. Every week, at least every week. And I want to caution you, this is not a place where you get to relive the trauma. You're looking for progress, not perfection. Are we feeling good about things? Are we able to keep these agreements that we have on this page?

So.

So ideally, then celebrate.

I was gonna say. So you took. You were reading my mind. Ideally, this agreement is a big part of our lease option contract for love process. So ideally, and if these are coming from the place of what you have been so impassioned to share today, they should Be a place of feeling like we're moving forward and then maybe two where also where we've missed the mark. But again, not from a place of punic. I can finally wonderfully remember our times in our lease option contract coming together for agreement. But I'm not trying to dismiss this is a different place to come to agreement. But again this is used to be honest and open. And again, most of us don't ever evaluate anything in our love lives and see where are we hitting the mark, where are we missing mark. And then would this be a place to maybe say, you know what, could we modify that agreement? Could you do that as well?

And you might notice and it's going to happen. This is normal and very human of us that as the weeks go on you're going to have layers of maybe similar emotions come to the surface. It doesn't mean you're not making progress. It just means, I'm sorry, I need to bring this up again, but I'm feeling this again. I need to share it, I need to express it. I don't want to take it out on you. So I'm going to say, gosh, I'm really struggling with these things and it doesn't mean they have to be fixed by the person that you're sharing them with. It just means I'm giving myself the air time to know that I've shared them, I've expressed them so I can let them go. And maybe through that process us, we gain in, in continued insights and clarity in regards to how it is we've arrived here and creates excitement about what it is we want to create differently going forward. I don't want any of that. So I want to be mindful of this. That's what I. And I don't want to use the word beautiful, but I am. That's the beautiful part of living through difficult experiences is it showcases for you what it is you want as well as what you don't want anymore in this relationship. It's part of the recreation of this vision for the two of you going. And so that's going to be normal for continuous feelings to come up. An analogy I think of an onion is so appropriate because there are layers to these emotions. And so if they come up again on either side, it doesn't mean I'm going to take action on it just means I'm having another revisit of the same emotion. And if I can look at it and express it, it's going to teach me yet a little more, a little more, a Little more. It's going to give us a little more clarity. Me a little more clarity.

What I too hear and also sense with when you explaining the importance of importance and the power and also the simplicity of the. Of these agreements. It's simple, small ways to rebuild the permission and safety between these two people that has been significantly compromised. Compromised.

Yeah. Yeah. And if an affair has happened, emotionally or physical, there's already been a compromise of that safety, that emotional safety to share in the relationship somewhere. That is for sure. Otherwise the person would have come to you and said, I'm not happy. I'm thinking about having an affair. I don't want to do it, but I can't continue like we are anymore. Anymore. The fact that that conversation did not happen before an affair happens already tells you that the safety to share emotional stuff is gone. Okay? So I don't know how much more clear I can say that. So there is a rebuilding necessary and a protection of knowing how to rebuild that safety that's going to be imperative to your success going forward. And that's really where you might need some skilled facilitation and support in learning what that is and how to do it. Unfortunately, we don't have time to go into that today. But that's a huge piece to just realize. And if you ever hear us say there's learning for both sides and the person who's been the betrayee goes, what? I didn't have anything to do with this. Okay, well, that's true. You did not make the choice to have an affair for sure. You stayed faithful, you did your part, you kept your agreements. But there's something going on in the relationship that has sacrificed the safety to say what I just said, said, what is that? And we need to uncover that so that we can build safety going forward.

And please understand, Stacy didn't say, we're not saying that someone is right and someone was wrong. That's not at all what we're saying. Please don't misunderstand us. What we're saying is there's more going on than the typical response where he or she did that, and that had nothing to do with me. Well, I would, with great love and respect to say that's not like we think it is. That's all. It's simply, we need to help you expand your understanding of what's true and really going on.

I'm waiting for the elephant in the room, for the two of you to go, well, what if the betrayer says, no, I'm not, Because you just said hey, make sure they're choosing in and make sure they're in agreement here. And what if they say, I'm sorry, I can't do that. I'm sorry, I can't agree to that?

I would say, well, then what would. What could you do that would be close to what I've asked for?

Yeah. Good job, honey. Look at you. Brooke.

Can you ring a bell for me?

It's clapping for you.

Oh, nice.

Oh, man. Oh, that's really good.

Wow.

Wow. Nice. I like that.

Thank you.

All right, there's something behind the no, and you need to explore what that is. Why do you feel uncomfortable with this? Why are you resistant to this? What would be something similar that you would agree to? Because often you have to understand the person who's done the egregious act of betrayal is. Is wanting to set it up for success, too. And there are places where they get afraid and they're trying to avoid maybe or feel uncomfortable and awkward in this situation as well. And so maybe I'm saying no because I'm afraid of how you're going to respond or don't feel like it's something I can keep because I'm some of the wrestling that's going on inside of myself and my own internal conflicts. We want to explore the behind the no. And don't take the no as, oh, see, they don't want to work on this. See. Oh, see, I know. Knew it. I knew it. That's not true. Oft times, that's not true. They just have things that make them feel uncomfortable or awkward or they don't know how or they're afraid of how it's going to go. And so if that's the case, they're going to go, no, no. Like that. So explore a little more. That doesn't mean no, never. It just means there's something else for us to uncover here. And if they're genuinely wanting to recreate this relationship and set it up for a win and the manner in which we've described here today, they will find a workaround with you. They will find a workaround.

Well, I was just going to say, to me, this just sounds like, you know what you do. Classic case of mediation.

Meaning.

I always like to remind people, look, mediation in really basic terms is a win, win for everybody going forward. It's not to dismiss what has transpired, but if we want to truly move forward, then everyone needs to be acknowledged and understood. We're going to put something together, and there's probably going to have to be Some movement from both sides. That's a fair enough understanding. In a general case of mediation. This is just a very, very specific case of mediation that's really, really important.

While in the case of the chicken. Chicken, as we wrap up. Oh, my God.

You're back to the chicken. Just so you know, if you're listening, Tom will not be forgetting the chicken when we don't eat chicken that much, but I won't be forgetting it when Stacy asked me to bring some home.

Right. Don't forget the chicken. Apparently, it's a big deal today. This is just going to be on a smaller scale. We're going to still clean up the mess. We're still going to gain some insights in regards to what happened, and then we're going to create some new agreements about what happens the next time I ask you to do something. And I'm going to be mindful of ensuring that you truly choose in. And if you say no, then okay, I either need to accept that and take care of it myself, but I'm going to treasure the fact that you were honest with me, that you couldn't fit it in today instead of making a promise to me. That's what kills us. It's not about whether the chicken gets picked up or not. What kills us is when I count on you to do something and then you don't do it. That's. And regardless of how you try and sweep that away from a conversation or justification, there's a betrayal in there that begins to, like, sacrifice our relationship.

And I just have a little exercise that people can do. If you're wondering if you're a safe person for your partner to confess something like that, to ask yourself truthfully, how would I react in that situation? Would I be nice to my partner if they said, forgot the chicken. And I know you really needed it, and I know this is gonna be really annoying for you. Do you blow up and do you berate them because you're stressed out? Cause sometimes that's what we do. Or would you say, oh, honey, it's okay. That's how you know if your partner is. Is gonna be willing to tell you.

Stuff like that or not.

You know, what kind of person you are when stuff like that happens. You know what the experience is that your partner has if they say something like that to you. So just ask yourself. Yourself. And you can always change.

Yeah, absolutely. And it's the difference between it's okay to feel the way you feel, but just don't take it out on your partner and disappointments. Are going to be part of the deal. But can you lean in and problem solve those together? And is there safe places for us to make a mess? Because if there isn't, what a setup. Because we are literally mess making machines as human beings. Like, I don't disappoint you intentionally. I do it because I'm wrestling typically with me and the myriad of things that are running my mind and my agenda for the day. So I love that you threw that in there, Brooke. That's brilliant. So as we wrap up here, I know I've said that a couple of times. There's just so much to say around the topic. And then this is a place obviously where I'm very impassioned about this. And I just see so much suffering that goes on here and in an attempt to move through it, and yet it just digs us deeper into a pit of despair. And I want to just help you avoid that. That's the whole intention behind this episode. So keep your agreements short and important and make sure that everybody is starting small. And remember, you're building on that. It's important for these agreements to be kept and evaluated frequently so that you can see your progress. And again, this does not mean you set these agreements in motion to punish your person. No, you're setting them in motion because that's what you need personally, to risk again with them and to begin to rebuild. And yes, it's gonna. It's gonna create emotions that are gonna come up, express them, just don't take them out on your person. Because if I have to punish you to feel better, if I have to make you pay, we're all gonna pay, not just the person you're trying to punish.

And I love what you said. Progress, not perfection. That's huge. Remember, that's what the evaluation part you're looking for.

Progress.

You know, I think that's a very, very clear distinction that you don't hear. This is a journey that's very significant. And if it's going to go with any kind of a redo, this is what's needed. It really is.

Absolutely. And if you need help with this, if you don't have the ability to do this on your own, and I'm just going to be honest, you know, 99.9% of us don't, we get too caught up in the emotion. And quite frankly, we haven't learned the skills necessary enough or pract enough within us to get us through it. And this is what we do here. So there's lots of ways that you can engage with us and reach out for help and support from everything from a free clarity call to becoming a part of our Better Love Club, to scheduling a one on one session with me. So choose something, take action and get the help and support that you need because this absolutely can be recovered from.

Just go to our website, stacybartley.com and you'll find all of those options that she just listed.

All right, I know that's a lot. We've shared a lot here with you. Let it marinate, sit with it, Listen to this episode if you need to a few times so that you can really kind of gain what it is we're trying to impart with you here. And on that, we're going to take a break and we're going to come back for a little bit of fun. Yes, we're going to take a hard left on you. All right, here we go. Let's do a little bit of a follow the fun moment.

I think we all need a little fun after that conversation.

When we're going through a rough time like an affair, we have this ability to think that we've got to get all the way through it and get all the problems solved and get it all figured out before we can absolutely have sex and have fun. And I'm going to say don't do that to yourself. Sex and fun are going to be the things that help you get through it and continue to reconnect and rebuild that trust and safety that we so much talked about. So don't wait for that either. There's no reason to do that. That's also an idea in your mind that you have to suspend those kinds of things in an effort to solve all the problems. And actually it makes it more difficult. So that's why we always include a little bit of a follow the fun moment in each and every episode. So that regardless of what you're going through, the challenges that you might be facing right now, we remind you that there's always a great time to have some fun. And today I call this follow the fun piece. Peace. The essence of you and what I'm going to ask you to do is make a list of the qualities that you love and admire about your person. So just take out a piece of paper, write down those qualities. It could be your sense of humor. It could be that sultry look that you get on your face when you look at me. It can be the way you tell me that you love me. It could be your willingness to always do the dishes or help out around the House, whatever that might be.

Or bring the chicken home.

Bring the chicken home. And the chicken is going to continue, I guess through this whole thing.

See, I was just having a little fun. I was making a little, a little fun or just a little, little, little poke.

Once you have your list of things that you really admire about your person, and this also reminds us that there are really great things that we love and appreciate about our partner. That even when we're going through difficult times, it's not the totality of your experience with this person that they actually have really good things that you love to and appreciate. And then what I'm going to ask you to do is once you have your list made, I'm going to ask you to scroll through your library of photos and in your own mind and in your own personal perspective, select photos. At least one photo for each quality that you have listed on the page. That in your mind represents a reflection or a photo image of what you see this quality being expressed in this photo. And if you by chance have some qualities that you don't have photos for, for the next day or so, capture some. Take a picture of your person while they're doing or expressing those things that you appreciate so, so much. And you can't take enough photos to create a collection. And then what I'm going to encourage you to do is create a collage and you can do this digitally if that's your jam. There's lots of places online where you can put your photos into some kind of a special thing and gather them together digitally. Or you can do it old school way, which I love. Any Walmart, any Walgreens, any Costco, Costco has a place where you can go online and you can create it and then they'll print it off for you and you pick it up and then the real fun part is to be able to share this with your partner. I love this.

I'm thinking of right now, it's actually hanging up in our bedroom. I did something similar to that our first trip to San Diego. Are you thinking of the series of pictures? I very strategically. That was before digital. No, I guess there was digital. Wasn't nearly like it is now, but.

Anyway, so then go through the photos and tell and share, not tell, but share with your person what this photo captures for you, that quality that you admire in them, that you so appreciate for from them. And I'll tell you what that is going to mean so much. And even if it makes your partner uncomfortable to express those things, believe me, they love to hear it, we don't hear it enough. Even if it's a little awkward to take in and to open up to, it's going to mean the world to them. So it's so worth the effort and energy to do this. So the essence of you make sure that we capture it and that we share it, because those are the things that often never get shared but are felt inside of, of us. And unfortunately, if it's not expressed, the person that you love doesn't know, you know, they'll be surprised at some of the things you come up with. So I promise this is one of those things, as I say, that will absolutely tingle your toes. So as we wrap up here, we have a song, each and every episode that basically highlights the message that we're trying to communicate and share with you in art and music form. And today's song that I selected is from Miles J. It's an oldie but a goodie. He says, let's start over. And I think that's really what this is about. It's about a do over. It's about starting over. It's about being able to say, this part isn't working. I need to clean up this mess. Let's build some new agreements to begin again. And that's basically what he says in this song. Let's start small. Let's take our past and put it behind us. I'm going to take your hand and you put it in mine and let's hold each other close as we go with this. Together. Together. So you can check out this song on our website as well as our Spotify playlist. Thanks for being here inside the Love Shack with us. We'll wrap it up and say goodbye for now. If by chance there's a conversation you would like to have us have in the Love Shack, please reach out to us on our website because we are dedicated to having the conversations that matter most to you. So until we see you next week, know that it's been a pleasure to be here with you again. Bye bye for now.

All right, it's time to leave the Love Shack. But before we part ways, we want you to know our door is always open and we'll leave the porch light on. Ready to welcome you back whenever you need a dose of relationship wisdom. For more resources and tools, visit us@love shacklive.com to dive deeper into the topics we've explored and find additional support for your relationship journey. Stay connected by subscribing to our podcast. Thank you for being being part of our Love Shack live community.