#172: Feeling Ignored By Your Partner? How to Turn 'You Never Listen' Into 'I Hear You'

Have you ever found yourself in a conversation with your partner only to realize you're both just waiting for your turn to speak? No one is truly listening. This is a silent trap that many couples find themselves in, creating a divide that deepens not from a lack of love, but from a fundamental disconnect in truly hearing and understanding each other. Welcome to Love Shack. Live the beacon for those seeking to navigate these waters, aspiring to rebuild a bond that's not only genuine, but lasting. I'm your host, Stacey Bartley, and with me are my co host and lover Tom, our daughter Brooke. And in today's episode, we delve into the often overlooked art of listening. I mean truly listening, to ourselves and to our partners. It's about more than just hearing words. It's about understanding emotions, intentions, and the unspoken truth between the words that are actually spoken. We're exploring how our personal narratives shape our perspective, how to manage the biases and the importance of resisting the urge to correct or control the narrative that we actually hear. We're addressing the common hurdles like defensive distractions and the challenge of maintaining genuine presence throughout the conversation. Through practical strategies and heartfelt advice, we aim to equip you with the skills to navigate these obstacles, thereby enhancing your capacity to listen attentively and empathetically. Why this episode is a must Listen well because I cannot overemphasize the mastering of an art of active listening and the impact and transformation that this can lead to you and your relationship. Look forward to it, bridging gaps and fostering a deeper, more meaningful connection between you and the people you say you love. Even when we're talking about the tough stuff, it's not about improving communication so much as it's about enriching the bond you share. And communication just happens to be the vehicle to get us there. Listening will ensure both partners feel heard, valued, and understood. So as we embark on this journey together, remember the goal is not to be perfect in the act of listening overnight, but to embrace it as a continuous, evolving process that we are always looking towards and remembering. A commitment to practice this dwindling skill in art form is sure to deeply enrich your relationships both with yourself and others.

Hey, thank you for coming. Welcome to the Love Shack.

So there's a lot more to listening than simply keeping your mouth shut. However, this is a great place to begin. Listening cannot happen if my lips are moving. So that's step number one. Often, too, the impact of good listening also has a positive effect for both the person sharing and the person listening. So let's briefly explore them both. For the person sharing when I have a listener, it actually increases the level of openness that they experience. Overall, they're inclined to share more of themselves than they even thought they would in the beginning of a conversation. So if you truly want to learn and understand more about someone, letting them speak will provide you with greater depth about their thoughts and emotions and the quickest route I know of to listen and understand where they're coming from. Next, the person sharing usually reports that they start paying attention to what they are saying. Meaning if I feel like I truly have somebody that's listening to me, I can settle into myself and I start paying more attention to the words that I'm saying and the truthfulness of which I am speaking. It is in this place where I take what I'm sharing more seriously. They are likely to become more articulate and coherent if they know that someone is actually paying attention to them. This means less rambling and fewer diversions that go off topic. And the last thing I'll mention about sharing and listening is the positive impact for the person sharing is this they feel more connection to the person who is listening to them. Research shows that when a person speaking does not feel listened to, they begin to dislike the listener, feel greater distance from them, and even become angry at the listener when the listener is not paying attention. Geez, does that explain a lot?

So I was just going to say, what do you think happens in relationships where one partner says the other partner never listens to them?

What are they really saying?

I don't really like them.

I don't like you. You don't get me. You don't understand me, you don't know me.

I mean, I'm just joking. They're not saying I. They're not saying I don't like the partner. But if you never feel listened to and you just said research shows that all of those negative feelings come up when you don't feel listened to, then hello. That's obviously a huge issue in our relationships and why we resent our partners so much.

Well, you're not getting any of the three that we talk about often. That all seven and a half billion of us humans are wanting to be acknowledged, value and know that we matter. If you're not feeling like you're listening to, you're not going to be having any experiences of not just one, but any of those.

What is interesting is we actually become angry. And so, so many couples that we connect with and support say, I have so much resentment that has been built up and so much of the resentment is built up because I'm angry that you don't listen to me, you don't understand me, you don't get me. That's where the resentment is coming from.

I also think that people who don't listen to their partners. We'll just go with men, because that's the stereotype is that the men never listen to the women. I think a lot of times the men don't even know why they're not listening. Like the partner who is not listening sometimes doesn't even know why they're not listening. And it's because they don't know how to be a good, active listener, which is what we're talking about in this episode. But I think I'm going a little bit deeper here, that it's because they have a lot of things going on in their mind, or they're stuck in defensiveness, or all of these things that you'll learn shortly about what hinders us from listening. But I think often it's not even a conscious choice to not listen.

I. I think so, yes. We don't understand the importance of listening. And sometimes I think we're listening when we're really not. I think that's going to be uncovered today. There's going to be some big aha moments. But I also need. And then we'll dive into this too. But I need to say this right now, that one of the reasons why men stereotypically don't listen to women is because women don't know how to shut up. I don't mean that harshly. I'm just saying because we feel like we're more adapted. Our feelings and our emotions and the ability express them. What we tend to do is do that for everybody without realizing that also creates the same feelings of not being heard, not being understood, angry, resentful, those kinds of things because they think they know better. I'm more in touch with my emotions, I'm more easily expressing myself. And so I'll just do all the work for all of us. And what that does is it creates a place where I'm angry now because I don't feel like you're listening to me. Even if I were to try to speak up.

We talked about this in our previous three episodes. There has to be an exchange, right? There has to be a volley, a back and a fourth. And when it's only one way, there is no volley. And yeah, any of us doesn't matter, male or female, is just going to default and act like we're Listening, but we're not listening at all.

So how about the positive impacts for listening for the person who is actually doing the listening? The positive impact for you, dear listener, is that you truly understand another person outside of yourself. And so often relationships crumble, not because we don't love each other, but because we just don't understand each other. And the many forms of communication that we are taught are not teaching us how to be lovers. They're teaching us how to debate, how to give you a sales job, how to manipulate, how to coerce and corner, how to dominate. And that's never going to take us to where it is. We want to improve the connection and the bond and the emotional safety that we've been talking about now for three episodes in our communication series. So I'll just touch on it here. But it's so important that we learn a better way. And listening truly is at the heart of this. If we're not good listeners, it won't matter how many great communication frameworks you have and how many principles that you have, because if we don't have a listener, there's never going to be productive communication taking place. It's going to be two people competing for airtime to share, like we said in the intro, waiting for their time to share. I'm not listening. I'm not understanding and learning more about you or. Or diving deep into that. I'm just waiting for my turn to talk so that I can now negate, override, debate with you, what you just said, and then the whole conversation shuts down. So the positive impact for the listener is that you truly get to understand something that may be very, very odd or you're unaware of. I'm so lost in my own narrative, usually as a human being, that this novel idea of understanding something outside of me is not something that I think is required. I think I've got it all figured out inside myself. Okay, so the. The rule for listening and communication overall in my world is it is in the pursuit of understanding. And that is a hard period. I'll say it again. I say it all the time. And first the understanding is of myself, so that I can translate my thoughts, feelings, and emotions into a language that first I can understand enough to share with you. Because if I can't do that, we're kind of dead in the water. Understanding can't be the goal. And then being able to listen long enough so that I can understand another something that's different than me, something that sometimes I don't relate to or I don't understand at all. After all, we come from different experiences, different ideas, different needs, preferences, et cetera. And so often our partners have these needs and wants and desires and experiences outside of us that we don't really relate to. What we tend to do in this place is shut them down, override them, teach and preach all the things that shut communication down instead of just simply understand or attempt to understand where they're coming from and what's happening internally for them. Like, what is your experience? Truly, when we think about it, we really are so busy pushing our own perspective that we don't take the time to understand something outside of our personal narratives. And that's why listening happens to be so hard. We are pushing our personal narratives and trying to manage the emotions that those narratives evoke. So listening is really, really difficult. It is a skill that needs to be mastered that we simply do not spend enough time talking about or focusing on. We think it's the least important part of the communication journey, and that is not at all true. In fact, it is the most important part of any good communication. And if there is not a listener in the communication, this whole conversation we're having is going to derail into conflict. And it will happen quicker and faster than you think it will. And it's because we don't have a listener and everybody's talking over the other person trying to get their point across. If there's no listener, there can be no understanding. And if there's no understanding, there can be no solutions to the problems and challenges that are inevitable in our relationships and in our lives. So remember, the solutions lie within the conversations that we are so not having. That's why we don't find them. So listening is difficult and is going to require us to do what I call an ability, emotional pushup. We've talked about emotional weightlifting in our three previous episodes. Again, as a combo series with communication. Emotional pushups will be required because our narratives are different and because these narratives. And when I hear you talk and share, certain things are going to spike off emotion in me. And if I don't know how to do an emotional pushup, I. E. Regulate my emotions, I'm probably going to attack. I'm going to over talk, overspeak, overshare. I stop listening altogether and then I start formulating my rebuttal or my points or my correction on the other side. So listening isn't happening in that moment and so quickly it derails because it's hard, because it takes a lot of effort and energy to do so.

I Feel like a lot of people probably believe it's not possible to overshare in a relationship. So what do you mean by that?

Oversharing means I'm sharing faster than the person that's listening can absorb. And if I'm going on and on and on, and my listener has gotten confused in the explanation and the why and the evidence, et cetera. There is a point in time as a human being where listening takes a lot of energy. And sometimes we don't think about that. It takes a lot of effort to put my own agenda and narrative aside, to truly listen in an attempt to understand somebody else. I want you to think about it as like emotional conditioning. It takes effort. And if somebody is not getting to the point, we can all relate to this listening part where somebody doesn't get to the point they're oversharing, they're going on and on. And somewhere along the line, my brain just switched off. I stopped listening a long time ago. And they're going on and on and on. And I've gone back to my own thoughts and my own experience because I can't track this anymore. I'm exhausted from it. And so there is some responsibility on the sharing side, which again is things that we cover in the previous episodes in our communication series and why it is we have encouraged you time and time again in those communication frameworks to get to the point, lay the card on the table, get specific, and get clear so that we can maintain the listening. Now, here's what's so interesting, is when there's an exchange of listening and sharing and listening and sharing, there's an energizing component that starts to happen. It's like this refueling starts to happen. And the more I feel heard and understood the one, the more I have the energy and capacity to hear and understand. So we can be up all night long talking. If I'm not following you and there isn't this exchange of information and somebody is just going on and on and won't give me a chance to talk and process and share as well, then I burn out really, really fast. That doesn't seem to create or does not create the same energizing component where it's a reciprocal thing. We can go back and forth and leverage off of the emotional energy that's coming from the exchange of information. And that's what I mean by all that. I know that was a really long winded answer, but I think it's important for us to understand that we can overshare. Meaning if we were to put this into a metaphoric idea. It would be, if I'm sharing and pouring water into a glass faster than you can drink it, well, then you're just gonna drown, and I'm not gonna feel understood and frustrated, and so is the person listening. And all we've created is a mess from my overpouring into the glass that then overflows and is onto the table and now leaking onto ourselves.

So it's important, wherever we are, if we're sharing or listening, just to make sure that exchange is going in a flow and a sequence of which keeps that energizing nature ver. The nature that just sucks the air right out of the room. And we're freaking exhausted.

Yeah.

So we need to be cognizant of that.

The reason why I asked you to elaborate on that is because I didn't want our listeners to think, oh, there's certain topics that are off limits because that can be another use of the word oversharing. Oh, that was tmi, but I knew what you meant. And I think this is a really important principle that we need to be cognizant of with anyone we're speaking to. But especially because I think in relationships, we don't often think that we need to still remember to be cognizant of this 10 years, 20 years into our relationships, because we're like, oh, no, my partner can handle anything I say to them when that's not true. They're still a human, so they still have limits in their emotional capacity to hear, especially in difficult conversations, which is probably where you're gonna be needing to use these listening techniques the most.

Well, and even in daily sharing. Right. I. I can't tell you how many times I'll. And Tom and I all start sharing our day. And I find all of a sudden it's just an awareness. It's just a realization and an awareness that, gosh, I've been talking for a really long time. Maybe I need to stop now and listen to what they have to say about it. And I'll say, gosh, okay, enough about me. What about you and your day? And that's my way of transitioning from, gosh, I'm aware that I've been going on and on and on and on and on. I can only imagine you're exhausted now from what I've been saying. So enough about me. What about you? Tell me about your day. And that's just an awareness that we need to create inside of ourselves. And that's why I said in the beginning, as women sometimes, because we have such a good working acumen of being able to share our thoughts and our feelings with others. We practice it a lot with our friends, with other women, et cetera. Oftentimes, I think this is what men mean when they say, you're nagging. There is no room for me in the conversation because you just go on and on and on and on and on. And there's no space for that exchange. And I just get tired and then I avoid it and then I shut down and now I don't want to engage with you at all. I'm making up some terrible things about you that are not true. And you're making up some terrible things about me that are not true. And so when I work with couples, that's a huge piece that we have to do that. No, everybody's trying to do their best based on the skills that they have. We just don't realize this very important nuance. There is a thing called oversharing.

Well, we're back to the same again. Musically, it's the space between the notes that makes the music. I know we say that, but it really is true. If it was just continuous playing, there would be no music. So same in the. The flow and exchange between especially intimate conversation and your intimate special someone. If it's all one sided. Come on, this is. It's science. Science is science and it affects everything. And this is a very important exchange. And Stacy is really good at that. I actually shared that in our men's group meeting last night. I've never had anyone that was aware like you are. Thank you for your awareness, but no, I'm interested. Keep going. But she's aware that she may be talking more and hasn't given me an opportunity. So she'll interrupt herself and say, okay, never had that happen before. It's wonderful. But yeah, remember, there is an exchange here.

It's very important. And this is what creates the synergy or the re energizing of our ability to maintain the listening sharing that can go on and on and on for hours and hours and hours. If it's happening, we generate the energy to listen and to share. And the more we do it and the more ebb and flow there is, the longer we can sustain it.

Well, I would assert that. Think about when you first came together with your special someone. Remember how you could talk for hours and it was effortless. Most of us have memories of that. Stacy and I still do it now, but meaning because that exchange was there, you were highly keen to listen and so was your special someone. And to share back and forth, back and forth.

And what's coming up for me now is when Tom and I feel like we're disconnected. I'll go back to these things that we're going to share with you today to intentionally create that effortless conversation. Right. I'm looking for the skills that are going to help us get back into that. And there is a recipe that I know I can reach for now that we've been together for more than a decade, that when I'm feeling disconnected, I just. I know that I need to do these things in the communication. And then inevitably, we'll find our way back into this synergistic sharing where in the beginning of our relationship, it would just kind of be this elusive thing that would sometimes fall out of the air, where it was like, okay, what just happened there? So these things are really important that we're going to be sharing with you today. And they're also things that you can reach for whenever you're feeling the disconnection or living in a place of space and separation right now, to be mindful of how important this listening and exchange of information.

And even if you're not, say, experiencing space and separation, but something's off, it, typically it's because this exchange and flow is not happening. Not happening. Or it's happening way less frequently.

Yeah. So we touched on movies. My perspective is what that is. We call it in our internal movie because we're constantly streaming a narrative, a perspective, the way that I believe things to be. And from that, we want that to be heard and understood. We want to be heard in regards to how it is. I've lined up the experiences that we've had personally and collectively. And I. I just need to vet that out with you. So we all have a movie. And nine times out of ten, our personal narratives and movies will be different. Not kind of sort of different. But that's really good news because if we understand, really the sharing that goes on between us, we'll understand also. We're never going to run out of things to talk about, because in every little nuance, I and my partner are pulling parts and pieces of what it is that resonates with them or how they see the world or how they interpret it based on their past experiences, ideas, preferences, et cetera. And so there's so much to learn and explore with our partners that I also think gets negated a lot. You know, if we were to assume that everybody had a contribution into the relationship instead of thinking that our differences where somebody had to be Right and somebody had to be wrong. I assert that our relationships would flourish much more if we were to take that perspective. Like, just because we see things differently doesn't mean that there isn't the opportunity for us to grow and expand in our personal perspectives and our collective opportunities as a couple. And what we tend to do instead is fight about whose perspective and interpretation of what just happened is right and wrong instead of learning. That's not the point at all. The point is that we get to see more of an experience, more of life through the perspective and lens of our partner. And not just my own personal narrative that often tends to run the show. The other thing that makes listening very, very difficult is the emotional triggers that follow from those narratives that I make up in my movie. These will stop the listening in its tracks and often derail the conversation. It's the emotions that is going to cause me to shut down, collapse, not listen, look for the nearest door that or excuse that I can reach for to escape this conversation right now. Or it's also going to be the thing that keeps me talking and over sharing and going on and on and on and on. It's the emotional triggers that become so challenging. And so that's why I say you gotta learn how to do an emotional pushup. Because if we can't emotionally regulate, we are going to react instead of respond. I am going to lose it at some point in time if I don't know how to navigate the emotional landscape of me and myself. So that's why listening is so hard. The minute these things, my movie starts to play, I stop listening. The minute I feel emotionally triggered or I've got a lot of emotion coming up because of what you're saying. I stopped listening because of your body language. And in couples that have been together for a while, as I jokingly say, but it's really not a joke, the eyebrow goes up and all of a sudden we're having full on conversations and nobody's saying a word right. It's the breathing, the body language, the eyebrow, the facial expressions. Oh, and all of a sudden I'm all plugged in and you haven't really said anything yet. And it's because of our inability to do that that we react instead of responding well.

And I just want to add in, you could be totally wrong. There are so many times where I think Jack is mad at me and he's like, what? You've been assuming I was mad at you this entire time? What are you talking about? And I give him all my evidence and he will be like, no, this meant that this had nothing to do with you, that I was thinking about this. Or maybe I just have a headache sometimes. It's that if I just would have asked, I could have avoided all of that mental movie that I made up in my mind and knew with 100% certainty that I was right and I was 100% wrong the entire time.

And I think that's why it's so important for us to be able to look at things objectively. And those of us who get very defensive, Right. The thing that we don't realize we're missing out on is the lack of understanding and clarity of my interpretation of what's happening.

Well, you always say the best way to find out what's going on is to get the intel from the person that's experiencing. So just like Brooke said, she would have just asked Jack rather than all these 100 assumptions that were 100 wrong. The intel is with the person. So if we get good from a place of invitation to be invited into that person's experience so we can understand what's going on, that's much, much easier and much more accurate.

One of my flaws is that if I assume he's mad at me, then I start acting like he's mad at me and I don't talk to him as much and I avoid him in the house. And if I bring him a glass of water, I like put it down on the table. Not very nice. Like all of these things that you do and it's not really super conscious. And mom too. You always bring this up that if you believe something in your relationship, then you start acting according to that. So I could have avoided all of that and acted normally and loving and how I want to act in my relationship. But instead I went with this wild hair that I was like, oh, he made that face. He must be mad at me. So now I have to be mad at him and now I have to do all of these passive aggressive things. And I'm just pointing that out because we've been together for almost 10 years. So it's not like this is a new relationship or like I'm trying to figure him out. I've made that decision and I said no, I know he's mad at me. And I was. And I'm wrong all the time. I would say more often than not, he is not mad at me. And I am just. Either I'm hormonal or I'm super sensitive that day. But it just goes to show that if you're Doing that a lot in your relationship. If you're assuming things and then acting according to it, of course that's going to cause cracks in your relationship, but you're not even really aware of it.

Wow. And then you experience it from the other side. Right. Gee, you know, she kind of was rude. Or gee, I noticed they're pulling away. Or, gee, I noticed they're not willing to engage with me or have sex or be intimate or spend time together. And then they start making up a narrative of what's going on and why you're treating them that way and how you're this and the this and this. So that's why I say, when we take pauses in our communication, which is a skill, if I can't maintain the listening and I am emotionally escalating and I take a pause and I declare a time when we're going to come back and pick this up again, I'm not sitting there obsessing. Or at least my encouragement is, don't sit and obsess about your partner and how they're villainizing you and being malicious and mistreating you and not giving you what you want. I would get very acutely aware and spend all of that obsessive thinking and energy on what is it I need and where do I want to go and what do I need to say in order to advocate for it? Because otherwise we turn these narratives into terrible, malicious stories about ourselves and about the people we say we love. And then, just as Brooke highlighted, we're going to live congruent to that. And now you have what I call a very epic shit show. Get your popcorn, get your Coke. This one is going to, like, blow you away. And it's all coming from the things that we're making up in our own narratives and in our own minds. Okay.

Which is, to be fair, it's kind of sad because a lot of it could be avoided or certainly way less intense if we just got good at what we just covered in our last three episodes. And this really is such a foundational component to good relationships that most of us just don't have a lot of time in the saddle. It's nobody's fault. It really is nobody's fault. We just need more practice and more understanding of how this thing goes.

These are the things that we should have learned in health class in sixth, seventh, eighth grade. Right. That would really serve us as adults in the world in which we live in. But unfortunately, we tend to not learn them until we've. We're really in a difficult Place when the house.

Relational ship house is burning down.

So back to the listener. That was important and I think we needed to highlight that. So let's bring this conversation back to the listening. The listener has two main jobs. As the listener, did you know that listeners had jobs or did you think you just needed to sit there with your mouth shut? Beyond, most of us think we just need to sit there and stare at you. Like, I pretend like I'm listening and that checks the box.

But I have to be fair in the spirit of full disclosure. Stacy and I always say I can act like I'm really listening, really good. I've got that one down and I ain't listening worth a damn. I couldn't even tell you. Like, not. No, not necessarily with you.

Oh, never with me, I'm sure.

No, no. But I mean, come on, man. I. Come on. I think most of us are really good at that. We are even sometimes Stacy can say, like, where did you go? She'll call me out, like, where did you go? You were there. I mean, literally, you were there and now you're gone. So I'll get this flood of responsibility or overwhelm of things I've got going. And then like, it's my own way of saying, honey, we're done now. You know, I could just say, you know, I could just say that rather than what I've demonstrated otherwise.

I think when we talk about communication, because as we've addressed many times, most people think communication is their biggest problem in their relationship. I don't think that in that people think it's listening. I think they think we need to change how we talk, not how we listen.

Use different words.

Yeah, But I think the opposite is true, is that a lot of times we need to change how we listen. And it really has nothing to do with changing how we talk.

It's increase the listening and emotionally regulate yourself. Those would be the two super tips at the heart of it. So the job of a listener is this. You need to create a safe environment for the speaker to be open about themselves. After all, when a speaker shares themselves, this is your opportunity to understand them. If they're not sharing about themselves, you're never gonna understand them. And the things that are probably driving you crazy are a complete, straight up mystery to you. We don't understand that. We compromise that understanding because I won't listen. Because I haven't created a safe environment for them to open up and truly share with you. The other thing is, we will only share to the extent that we feel safe. We'll not be willing to share at all much depth if we fear being ignored, humiliated or rejected. And now you start to realize why it is in long term relationships the sharing is so surface and or we've created all kinds of emotional prisons about what we can talk about or willing to talk about and not talk about. And pretty soon there's nothing we can talk about because when we talk about the kids, that's a problem and it derails. And now we can't talk about money because it derails. And now we can't talk about the parents because it derails. And now we can't talk about my emotional needs or the household chores. Right. We can't talk about anything. And this is where we start to live two separate lives trying to coexist in the same environment. But as Brookie already highlighted, I am treating you day to day according to the the narrative that I've made up as true about you and why you do that, and that's going both directions, not just one. So the space can become very overwhelming. You know, as they say, the tension can be cut with a knife. But we're really not solving it. We're just trying to exist and cope within it because nobody's willing to dive in to find the answers that we truly need. And I won't do that if there isn't a safe place to share. The second job of the listener is to understand what is being communicated in such a way that the sharing feels understood. And by the way, this does not mean that the person listening agrees to everything that is being said. It simply means you understand the person who is talking. And that's important because what happens is if I don't agree, this is going to be that emotional prompt we talked about just a little bit ago that causes me to jump in and correct the narrative and over talk and shut the conversation down or get a little manipulative, because I want you to understand where you're off base. I jump in and I start correcting these things instead of really just taking in what you're understanding to be true, recognizing and realizing there'll be time for me to come back around and share all those things. I don't have to do it right now. My job right now as the listener is to just allow you to share or say what you need to say, compose your own thoughts and feelings into a language that then you can understand and I can understand, and then we can go from there. So the essence of listening is more about an attitude and an intention and really not your ability to be precise with the words that you hear. A lot of reflective listening exercises and traditional couples counseling has this practice of I regurgitate back to you what I heard you say. And I'm not banging on that as a practice. It's important, but sometimes we can think that I need to get the word so precise. And that's where I knock it out of the park. And I'm going to say to you, no, that's actually not what we're attempting to do. I also want to expand your thinking around this and that. It's more about you being attentive and willing, and the intention behind it to understand is more of what's afoot. So communication is more of a skill and an art. It's a. There's an emotional nuance to it. And if I don't capture the emotional message that's being shared with the words that I'm saying, then the person that's sharing is still going to feel misunderstood. Now, the really good news about this is that sounds complicated, but if we really sit with it as a. As human beings, we're really actually pretty good about this because we pay more attention to the body language that's being used than the words that are actually being said as a general principle. So if you were really in it and listening and you have that intention and attitude of truly being open and willing to listen to the person who's sharing, you're going to pick up on that nine times out of 10. If it's motivated by only a superficial interest or competition, and we're going to compare notes and we're going to see who's right and wrong in this, then the sharer is going to perceive you as being insincere and manipulative. It's just where we go as human beings. So when listening comes from a genuine interest instead and a sincerity, there is a whole other level of communication and connection that opens up for us. There is literally an emotional connection trap door that becomes available if I just show up with the sincerity of wanting to truly understand and hear what you have to say. My focus is just on understanding that, not challenging it, not correcting it, not overriding it, not superseding it, but just to truly make an effort to understand where you're coming from. And we make this so much harder than it needs to be. If I were to step into that place, that's so much easier than thinking I've got to gather all my evidence and get all defensed up for what you're about to say. Instead, I can let all of that go and simply be present to the listening knowing that I can say and share anything I need to say and share I can say. No, I cannot go along with. I can disagree, but I probably don't want to do that until I understand what you're saying in the first in previous episodes. As I've mentioned, we've already talked about some of the skills for sharing your statement of truth plus an ask plus your invitations. And if this is the first of this series, shall we say listening is not necessarily part of that series, but I guess it kind of is. Not technically, but I guess it kind of is.

It's a good follow up. It is.

I would encourage you to go back and listen to the other three that.

Starts with episode 169 in case you want to go listen to them.

Perfect. The other side of creating a truthful, safe environment is being able to listen openly and sincerely to others. So here's what it's going to take and I'm just going to bullet point a bunch of things that you probably don't consider to be part of the listening experience, but very much is okay. We've kind of talked and touched on them in our conversation up till now, but let's get a little more specific so that you can see and truly understand what it is we've been talking about this whole time and we'll break it down very succinct and specifically for you. Number one, those dang movies. We become swept away with our own movies judging the shares message because our own movie is starting to play. Be mindful of your own body language, tone, et cetera, to keep your focus where it needs to be listening. And if you have a difficult time with this, I'm going to encourage you to get out a notebook every time you sit down to have a conversation and as thoughts and emotions come up for you, put them on the page knowing that you can address them when it's your time to share. But do your best to not interrupt your partner while they're sharing. Do your best to just maintain the listening as much as you possibly can. Okay? Number two, correcting the narrative. This is where, ah, we're starting to hear some things we don't agree with and there's some things that I just think you are so totally off base with and off point and I just can't take it anymore. Again, go back to your little piece of paper and jot down where you think you need to come back and say this is my Perspective or this was my experience when this happened. When it's your turn to share well.

And correct me if I'm wrong, babe, the way that we advocate and teach, coach and mentor how to do this is remember, I think what drives a lot of this, it's as if we feel like we're going to lose our chance if we don't bring it up right then.

Right.

But we're not, remember, if you go back to 169, as Brooke said, 170, 171, there's going to be an exchange. There'll be a time for you to do your statement of truth. The same three things that you know to call it out.

Right.

So don't worry. Yeah, I understand. Maybe you don't want to lose your thought. That's why you want to write it down. But you don't want to interrupt the person sharing. And you're not going to lose your opportunity to make your observations well.

And if you're like, hey, hey, hey, you're wrong about that. Do you really think that's going to have a nice, emotionally safe environment where the conversation is going to continue? Like, I understand why we want to do that as humans, just like you said, dad, but it doesn't leave lend itself to having a great conversation.

Never.

It's going to actually shut the conversation down, which is going to thwart all the progress that we're looking for and all the things that we desire in the sweetness of relationships. So I'm going to encourage you to resist the urge to correct a person's narrative and. Or speak over them, or worse yet, for them. Resist your temptation to do that even.

When you know it absolutely needs to be shared right now. Promise. Brooke, what would I used to say about patience when you and your brother are always growing up? Let's see if Ricky passes the test here. Oh, patience is always.

I don't remember a virtue.

Well, yes. Or rewarded.

Yes, you did.

Patience is.

Or, sorry, it was a brain fade. Because I do remember that very clearly. You also told me that if I was thirsty just to swallow my saliva. So, you know.

Okay, well, that was after I said, patience is always reward.

Well done.

You gotta, you know, slip in the good ones with the other ones. There you have it. See how it was in our house?

Oh, boy. When you hear something that causes you to go on the defensive, pause the conversation and revisit the conversation after becoming more clear about what you need to ask for and. Or to listen.

So give us a. Give us a real life. What would that sound like, just give us an example like that in real time.

Let's say I come home from work and I'm a little on edge and exhausted and you start like firing off a bunch of details that I need to take advantage of or take care of, et cetera, and I might fire back in my defensiveness. Okay, I got it. Just give me a minute and then I can say, okay, you know what, babe, I'm sorry, please. What I need to ask you for is just about 15 minutes to decompress and then let's come back around and talk about the details of the day. Can you do that for me? And then we can reset the conversation. So what's happened there is I've caught myself in a defensive cycle. I recognize that I've said some things in a defensive posture, and I can reset and create a do over in nanoseconds and then ask for what it is I need so that I can come back to the listening of all the details that in the moment they were being presented, felt exceptionally overwhelming to me. Here's what I need. Could you give that to me? Okay, so defensiveness is something that we are not mindful enough. It's just like me recognizing that I'm sharing and I've been sharing for a really long time. Defensiveness is something that we need to become more aware of. When I'm being defensive and I can.

Hear you listening right now, thinking, well, Tom, Stacy, Brooke, that doesn't pertain to me because I don't ever get defensive.

Well, that's probably defensiveness, right?

Just want to say that's one of our most popular episodes we've ever done. And none of us, us three included, gets the hall pass on being defensive.

Every single human on the planet is defensive. It's human nature to want to defend yourself and your point of view and your thoughts and your feelings.

And sometimes when I'm feeling usually overwhelmed, emotionally overwhelmed, I'm going to get defensive. Or when I don't feel heard, I'm going to get defensive. Or when I don't feel appreciated or acknowledged for all the effort and hard work I'm attempting to do, I'm going to get defensive. And rather than continue the action of defensiveness, I probably just need to reset using the communication frameworks we've talked about to ask for what it is I truly need to move through it. Defensiveness isn't something you need to be ashamed of or feel guilty about. You just need to learn how to manage it and recognize when it's running the show. It Derails listening. Big time. Big time. I get defensive and then I need to protect my defensiveness. And then my person gets defensive and then they're protecting themselves. And now we're casting terrible conversations and bringing up terrible missteps that we probably didn't resolve in the first place. And then the whole thing culminates into everybody feeling terrible about the way this.

Would be like napalm for the communication.

Yes.

It's just been flat out blown up.

And just recognize there wasn't a listener in there. Right. Both of us are talking. Probably talking over each other, yelling and screaming, pointing fingers. Oh, yeah, oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

One upping each other.

And. And then we just. We exhaust ourselves until it crumbles. That's a cycle of conflict. So we want to just reset as quickly as we possibly can. And the easiest way to do that is to. Aware of my own defensive feelings. Distractions. Listen. Here's the deal. If you are truly not in a place to listen and you know it, you're better off disclosing this and naming and suggesting a better time to show up to listen. Pretending to listen or multitasking will not work. We think it will. The elusive idea is I can do both. But you're going to get caught. And even if you don't get called out on it, the person who's sharing, who's wanting your undivided attention in those emotional nuances of interaction will know that you're truly not paying attention and listening to them. And then they get angry and then they pull away and then they shut it down. And as one client is ringing in my ears right now, I never say no, that I won't listen.

Well, maybe you should, because you may not say it, but you're behaving like you're not listening. Believe me. Because as good as we think we are, when we think we're faking everybody out, not listening, most people, they really.

You're not. Yeah. You're not. You're not.

Lights on, nobody's home.

You're not doing as well as you think you are.

Well, it's going to kill the whole essence between you and your special someone or whomever you're talking to. The greatest gift I really do think we can demonstrate to another human being is to be present with them. And I think we're losing that ability because of how fast our world is.

Moving and how much is demanded of us.

Yes.

And we believe in our own minds and in our own illusions that we can do both, and we can't.

Well, it's already proven scientifically. You can't multitask. That's a myth.

Yeah. So we continue to pursue, and I'm.

Trying to continually bust that myth, and I'm not having success. I'm a terrible. I'm terrible at this, ladies and gentlemen, I'll be honest with you. Stacey Kashmiri, please. I'm trying to do way too many things at once all the time.

Understand emotion. So here's the thing. We've touched on this, but we're going to get specific with it. If you don't understand the feelings behind the words, you don't understand the message from the person sharing it yet. It's not so much about the words. It's about the emotional essence of what is being shared. We can misconstrue that. I heard what you said, and I could recite back the words. Yes, but you're missing the emotional message behind it or in between the words that are being spoken. And this is where we really need to understand body language and tone of voice, et cetera, because to be fair, we're not very good also as the sharer of being as clear as we probably need to be. And we don't understand all the different ways that it could be misconstrued in the words in which I'm using. And that's just from the naivety of the sharer on the other side. We think that I can misguide you or mislead you or that you're following along just fine. Because I feel like I'm articulating it just so without realizing there's so many different ways to interpret very simple things for all of us. And depending on where I'm at in the moment and where I come from historically, my summation of what it is you're saying could be extremely misconstrued in so many ways. It truly is remarkable that we can come to an understanding through this very clunky mechanism we call communication, because it is exceptionally clunky. When we really understand all the parts and pieces and dynamics that need to come together for us to arrive at a similar page or a similar understanding. It truly takes effort and focus and understanding. The emotional part is often where I'm probably as a person, I keep bringing it up and up and up again, and I'm using the same words over and over and over, and I'm pointing to the same scenarios again and again and again because I don't sense that you still understand the emotional nuance of what it is I'm saying. And as the listener Hears the same words, trying to do the same. The hard task of understanding you has the same thing brought up again and again and again and we don't make any progress with it. You can start to see where there's a little bit of frustration that happens. And this is why I bring you back to the understanding. And if there was a conversation that kept coming up again and again and again and you felt like you had a pretty good handle on it as the listener, but the share just is relentless in letting it go. You probably need to ask, what about what it is you're sharing? You feel like I don't understand so that we can start to get to the emotional nuances of what it is you're trying to communicate to me. Instead, in my frustration and my defensiveness and my shutting it down and all the things we've already touched on, I try and just dismiss the conversation without realizing. If you do that, guaranteed you mark it on the calendar. This conversation, you just shut down. Oh, it's coming back around. And you think it Was frustrating the 99th time? Try the 205th time. We're going in a direction where this is just going to become more and more and more a source of sensitivity and irritation and frustration. So we might as well put the effort and energy into getting it handled right now. What is it I'm not understanding about what it is you're attempting to communicate with me? This is my understanding. Tell me where I'm off base or add to it. And that helps us get to these emotional nuances that often the listener and the sharer are not aware of is not happening. And this brings us to pay attention to not just the words, but the body language and tone of voice. The words that we use account for 7% of the message that is being delivered. Our tone of Voice accounts for another 38, while our body language accounts for the 55% remaining. When non verbal behavior contradicts what is actually being said as a human being, we will resort to the non verbal behavior and this will determine the message that I extract from the communication at large. It's pretty remarkable. So we want to make sure that what I'm extracting is what you're intending to say. There's lots of nuances to this and we want to vet it out. It's important. And then confirm you're listening. If the listener doesn't confirm their understanding from the person who's actually sharing, you're not going to get any credit for all of your efforts of listening. In fact, you'll Think that you understand when maybe you don't. So it's important to vet out what you think you are hearing and understanding to be true with the person who's sharing the message.

So would that be then us asking, giving a summary of what we just heard? And have I got that right? Is there anything that I missed?

And then that gives the listener the opportunity to, like, share more or share more of the emotional message that they're trying to say. And, babe, I must say, I gotta give you a lot of credit here. You are very good at this. Once I get you present and we're present with each other, you are incredible at us being able to share the emotional nuances of what it is we're trying to share. And that's such a sweet spot. And as you like to say, oh, gosh, you're crying. Okay, first time today. Check. Well, the reason why I cry is because I feel so understood. So that's just such a beautiful sweet spot. Most of us do get exceptionally emotional when we realize that somebody loves and cares about us enough to give us the gift of truly being heard. It's gonna make me cry right now. The next thing that I wanna point out is problem solving. So remember, often we're having difficult conversations and sharing, yes, for the sweet spot of connection, but also to solve the inevitable challenges of life. Right? With kids and bills and all that we have coming at us. No one wants to enter into problem sol with you if they believe that what you're saying is not making sense or you're being irrational or you're being unreasonable or you're acting out in any way. So the problem solving that we're needing to find solutions for will get shut down. Acknowledging the validity of another person's point of view will have big impact on setting a better tone for joint problem solving. It's going to cost you nothing and will help you gain a greater understanding to solve the majority of conflict before it ever gets started. If I will just simply check in with you and say, this is what I'm extracting from what it is you're sharing with me. Is there anything I'm missing? Is there anything you want to add? That little skill while listening will eliminate 99% of your conflict. Okay, great. I didn't get it all. No problem. I don't need to take that personal. Please share with you where I didn't pick up on that. So important. Okay, there's a few more here that are important. Asking too many questions. So you might hear, in traditional therapy, ask more questions. Get curious. Stay on that line of thinking. Yes, that's good. However, be mindful that also we can ask too many questions. Questions tend to steer the direction of the conversation. So when the listener asks too many questions, it becomes the driver of the conversation instead of the person speaking who is trying to help you understand where they're coming from. It's also going to derail the conversation. You're asking questions that I feel like I have to answer before I can go on and make the point that I was trying to make in the first place.

There again, you're breaking the flow of how this is supposed to go.

Yes, and another big one that happens along with this is denying uncomfortable and difficult emotions because I personally am comfortable with them, not necessarily the person who's sharing. So person is sharing, bringing up some difficult topics. I the listener, I'm going, I don't like the way this feels. I don't want to go there. I'm starting to panic. I'm becoming afraid. We often attempt to talk to the person sharing and we talk them out of the emotions that they're actually wanting to express. Because I personally of the list as the listener, are uncomfortable with them. And we might say things like, oh, you don't need to worry about that. Oh, that's not a really big deal. Oh, that doesn't bother me at all. So you can just dismiss that. Right? That's no big deal. And what I'm saying is it's not a big deal to me, and I'm negating the fact that it might be a big deal for you. So what we did is we just negated, invalidated, and shut down the sharing. Okay. Because I was feeling emotionally and comfortable.

So the gift there is just be there with that person and their pain. You don't even have to say anything, just be there with them.

Statements like things will get better or you're going to get over it, or it's not as bad as you think it is, or things could be worse. These all send a message to the person sharing that it's not okay to feel the experiences that they're having and they're going to become angry, resentful, and pull away and shut down. May I suggest something along the lines of it sounds like this makes you very sad. Feeling this way must be so hard for you. How can I support you? How can I support you Is one of my favorite questions. Wow. I hear what you're saying. How can I support you through this? That means I'm here. I understand what you're Saying, and what can I contribute to you that would be helpful? I'm not trying to talk you out of the difficulty or the frustration or the upset that you're experiencing. This also lends itself into getting comfortable with silence. Silence can be golden for some and agony for others. Good listeners need to be able to deal with silence. It's hard. It might make you uncomfortable. If we, and we need to practice hanging out in silence for a minute, not feeling like we need to say anything. Because if we're not comfortable with silence, we are going to jump in, fill in the words every time there's an empty space, and then you're denying the person the sharing and the opportunity to formulate their own thoughts. And this is all because you feel uncomfortable with the space. And when you feel this way, I invite you to close your eyes and take a few big breaths and to slow your breathing down as you seek to feel calm in the silence. Know right here you are practicing patience. And so I'm going to be patient and I won't speak until you say something. I'll hang out here in the silence with you. And now everybody's doing an emotional pushup.

And that can oftentimes feel like an eternity, but it's not. But it's a practice because, boy, that one we don't have down as a society.

No, we do not. That is a good practice for all of us to just hang out instead of spin up in the silence of the moment. It's very important. This is where we start to do what I call a lot of emotional weightlifting for the relationship, where I'm running around having all the conversations for everybody, right? Figuring it all out and understanding what's really happening. And then I tell you what you're thinking and how you're feeling and how it's going to go and what's wrong with you. And then I'm trying to figure out myself at the same time. And even for the person who's doing all of this emotional effort and energy weightlifting, what ends up happening is they burn out. And the person who needs to get better at formulating their thoughts, feelings and emotions into a language that they can share, they're not getting better at it because you're doing all the work. So we need to hang out in those quiet places. This leads me to giving advice. We often jump into giving advice because we're. It's a sweetheart message. We're well intended, we're well meaning. However, think about it like this. Until I understand, I probably shouldn't be giving advice about anything. So if I haven't vetted out that I understand where you're coming from and what you're struggling with, then I probably need to refrain from jumping in and giving advice at all. And if I am going to give advice while somebody is sharing, I'm going to ask for permission to do so. Which would sound a lot like, hey, I have a few thoughts on this. Would you like to hear them now or should I save them for later? And the person who's sharing who might be in a stream of thinking or sharing could say, you know what, actually right now, no, I just need you to hear me. I might be open to hearing them later. Great. Awesome. But how reticent we are to jump in and well, intentions and sweetheart messages to solve the problems that my partners are struggling with without recognizing and realizing they need to come to and do their own emotional push ups to develop themselves and their own understanding about their own experiences in life. And we rob all of that from happening because we jump in and start giving them advice. We also want to acknowledge when the conversation is sliding sideways and this is the last one that I'm going to share with you. Rather than let the conversation deteriorate, stop the conversation by simply declaring you're not able to continue listening followed by a starting time. You'll be ready to come back and begin the conversation again. Remember, conversations are rounds of opportunity and often not meant to be done in one sitting or conversation. That is okay if we have some conversation, glean a little bit of understanding from the listening and then decide that we're going to stop and come back to this. And we can do that tons of times, hundreds of times, thousands of times. The win is getting through it without the escalation, the conflict, the fighting, the shutting down, all those things we've just suggested specifically that you need to BE.

And the 4C of the communication sandwich is continue the conversation always. Oh, I passed that test.

If there is not a listener, we do not have productive communication happening. You instead have an escalating conflict that will end poorly. Listening is very important and it is the number one skill I would encourage you to practice and be mindful of in bringing an an improvement to your communication with your someone that is special with anyone really, and learning that that exchange of sharing and listening is needed in order for us to synergize the connection between us. It's important. In conclusion, as we wrap up today's episode on the nuances of active listening, remember that the art of truly hearing your partner is a journey not a destination. It's about practicing patience, empathy and the willingness to understand. It truly is a commitment to growth that can deeply enrich your relationship, especially over time. Like I said already, we can reach back for these skills and when Tom and I feel disconnected, I can say, okay, we need to go back to these listening skills so that we can find those sweet, sweet moments of each of us feeling like we're heard and understood. And this deepens the connection and intimacy that we experience in our relationship overall. Really doesn't matter what we're talking about. What matters is that you understand. I hear you. I get you. I'm here for you. That's the sweet spot. Today, if someone you know is navigating the challenging waters of relationship space and or separate separation or having breakdowns in this place of communication, we've curated something very special to support you here. We're excited to offer you a new Separation Bundle, which has been crafted with care to guide you through this delicate time. This valuable resource includes our comprehensive separation guide, plus the 10 texts to send when space has been asked for, plus a soothing separation meditation that's going to help you find your footing and create peace and clarity within yourself. I invite you to take the first steps toward a more mindful approach during space in your relationships, and you can do this by visiting stacybartley.com forward/ bundle to sign up and receive your free Separation Bundle today. You can also find many additional resources available to you, created with the intent of supporting you during challenging times in the relationship journey, and you can explore all of these by going to staceybartley.com. So our Follow the fun today is of course it's going to have to be a practice of listen right? I'm going to invite you to step into nature today and turn on your listening. As you sit in nature, I invite you to ask yourself what the do you hear and how far away can you sense the nuances of the pulsing vibrations of life taking place all around you? Like how far out and how diligently can we take this? And when I do this, it always is amazing to me how far into the distance we can actually hear when we're really listening intently and what we can pull in and extract from the experience. And then I invite you to bring this awareness into yourself. In this same place in nature, can you feel your breath, the beating of your heart, and the pulsation of life taking place within you? When we feel this, it's important that we express gratitude to this streaming life happening all around you, because we get to be among the living in this moment, which is a beautiful thing to celebrate. And our song today is a song that was actually shared to me by my son Tate. And Tate, if you're listening to I love you, I miss you. Thank you so much. You know, this has always been a special little spot in our relationships where we share music and new artists and experiences that come up for us around music. And he happened to share this song just a couple of days ago with me, and it's by Swing Rowers. It's a swing song which I know he knows I love, but the conversation is about love. And that's the title of the song, Love. And if you have an opportunity to watch it on YouTube, you get to see the music video, which is incredible. And the song is all about when our senses are fading and we're having a difficult time finding love. It's amazing how much we realize and remember that we care, that love is all around us. Love is ever present, and all we need to do is sharpen our senses in order to tap into it. It's everywhere. So thank you again, Tate. And just so you know, you can listen to this week's song along with our entire relationship playlist by going to our website podcast page, stacybartley.com or you can search up Love Shack Live playlist on Spotify. Thank you so much for joining us right here inside of the Love Shack. We hope that you carry forward the insights and strategies that we've discussed here into your daily interactions of listening, not just with your ears, but with your heart. Until next time, keep nurturing your relationships and listening deeply. It's the love you share that truly makes the world go round. Bye bye for now.

All right, it's time to leave the Love Shack. But before we part ways, we want you to know our door is always open and we'll leave the porch light on, ready to welcome you back whenever you need a dose of relationship wisdom. For more resources and tools, visit us atlove shack live.com to dive deeper into the topics we've explored and find additional support for your relationship journey. Stay connected by subscribing to our podcast. Thank you for being part of our Love Shack Live community.

Sam.