#197: Five Warning Signs Your Marriage is Headed for Divorce—and How to Stop It

You're sitting across from your partner and the silence is deafening. It wasn't always like this. There used to be laughter, connection, real conversation. But now it feels like you're living with a stranger. The worst part? It didn't happen overnight. The slow build of distance and unresolved conflict got you here, and it's terrifying to think about what's next. But here's the truth. It doesn't have to be this way, and it doesn't have to stay this way. Welcome to Love Shack Live, the podcast for anyone who feels like their relationship is at a crossroads. If you find yourself caught in daily arguments, feeling more and more emotionally distant, and want to rebuild something real and lasting, you're in the right place. I'm Stacy Bartley, a relationship mentor and teacher with over a decade of experience helping couples to navigate their toughest moments. I'm joined here by my co host and husband, Tom, and our daughter, Brooke. And together we're here to help you rebuild the connection you've lost and remind you that it's possible to feel seen, loved, and understood once again. So how do you know if your marriage is heading in the wrong direction? And more importantly, what can you do about it before it's too late? In today's episode, we'll break down the five key signs that signal trouble is ahead. And we're going to give you the steps to reverse course as well. So stay with us because the actions that you take now could be the difference between saving your marriage or watching it fall apart.

Hey, thank you for coming. Welcome to the Love Shack.

So five signs you're headed towards divorce and what to do about it. I want to start with this statement. Divorce doesn't just happen overnight. It's the result of unresolved issues and behaviors that build up over time. And today we're going to share five experiences that take place when you're headed towards a breaking point. And my hope is they will serve as warning signs that then allow you to stop your marriage slash relationship from falling apart. It reminds me of a client who was sitting in my office just a day or two ago, and he wanted to pinpoint the exact moment where it fell apart. And this is what we do. We obsessively think about the single moment without realizing, oh, see, it wasn't a single moment at all. It was a cumulative many, many moments that started out very small and typically crescendo into that moment that then we all identify where the proverbial straw breaks the camel's back. So these signs serve as early signals, shall we say early smoke signals that sooner rather than later. And you're probably going to hear myself and Brooke and Tom say this again and again and again throughout this episod. Please, for the love of God, sooner rather than later. If you have these going on, do something. Because on average, we wait, we ignore the low grade burn, and then we finally take action. And we've known we've needed to for a really long time.

The average couple waits six years even after they know they need help.

And I, I know that's because the pain has to intensify because that's when we take action and you know, the pressure moun and the drama increases and then we finally go, fine, fine, fine, fine, fine. Because somebody has a drinking problem, somebody's had an emotional affair, somebody's completely checked out or moved out. So if you're experiencing any of these, please be proactive. And I say that with all the love and respect in my heart because just like a health challenge, the longer you wait, usually the more intense it becomes and the less chance of turning it around you have. I'm not trying to be a naysayer. I'm just simply trying to be real with you.

I'm not trying to get further into the episode than you already are. But just to prime the ears of some of the listeners, my ex husband said so many times to me, maybe we should get help. And I always said, no, we're okay. It's not bad enough. You know, we're not the kind of couple that needs help. You know, we can figure it out.

It's not that big of a deal.

Yeah, I worked for my parents, relationship experts, experts for a good portion of it. And even me, who had worked with my parents and knew the signs and knew what a good marriage was and I was not in one. And we had a lot of problems. There's just so much denial that is so easy to push it aside and say, oh, other things are important, we don't have enough money to do that. Or, you know, we'll just work on this one style of communication and that will fix everything. Say anything anymore, I won't complain anymore, all of these things. But I just want to say it could be that your partner is in denial, thinks that everything is still going to be okay. It is so easy to put your relationship as the last thing on the to do list.

And if we were to flip this idea around just while we're here on this topic, before we step into the five signs, if we were to approach this proactively and say, look, my entire life, financially, mentally, emotionally, physically is on this foundation. Yep. And it's going to cost me everything because I'm all in here. If we were to approach it like we do some kind of licensure, I want to stay up to date. I. I want to make sure that we're good. I want to make sure I understand all the principles and skills that contribute to healthy, thriving, foundationally sound relationships and intimacy and connection. And as this field grows and enhances itself with additional skills, don't you want to be like, up on it? Don't you want to know the latest and greatest like things to keep it amazing?

Well, many, many professional licenses, my appraisal one included.

Do contin.

Education is required.

Yeah. But instead we look at it as raising your hand and saying you need help as a punishment or an admission that you're. You failed.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's really the only place which is in life that we view it that way. Which we as a family and body of work find like that's kind of it that all the, all the regret at the end of our lives is around what, what place in our life. Relationship.

Relationships.

So there seems to be a massive disconnect.

Well, and I just want to say one last thing and then we'll get started because people are like, would you just shut up? Get to the five signs. When we are overweight, which I am and I've dealt with for a long time, I would say that admitting I'm overweight and go and getting a gym membership is way less intimidating or painful than admitting my relationship needs help. You know, we don't even look at those the same way when they're kind of similar. You're just having some struggles and you need someone to help mentor you to change your skills and think that raising your hand. We as a society, we have made admitting you need help in your relationship such a bad, shameful, hard to speak about thing when it's probably the most normal thing that you could experience is having relationship problems. What couple have you ever met in your life that didn't have a relationship problem? I would venture to guess.

Gas. We. We know what those numbers are. Now.

Whether that's been transparent or not is another question. It could have been kept looking real good on the outside.

It's kind of like miscarriages. Women who have miscarriages. You don't talk about it until you have one and then you say, oh, I've had a miscarriage or I've had an ectopic pregnancy and Then all of these women who you've known your entire life are like, oh, I had one too, and you had no idea. You never talk about it. And we think, oh, God, I'm so alone. I don't, I don't know anyone who's had this experience. And then you find out everyone has had this experience. We just don't talk about it. That's the same thing with having like a terrible fight with your partner or feeling like maybe you're going to get a divorce or not knowing if you're going to make it. If you talk about it, you'll realize a lot of people around you have had the same experience for some reason. We just have decided it's something we don't talk about, which is so weird because everybody, everyone is in relationships.

Well, let me just say this. You'll relate to this every single relationship you ever be in or have ever been in, regardless of whether it's a lover, a friend, a parent, a child, a neighbor, a co worker, a pet, even a pet. There are things that we love about these people and there are things that we don't love about these people that drive us crazy. That's normal. And so when we don't talk about the things that don't work, what happens is we don't solve or understand the things that don't work. And that's what creates the slow grade resentment and slow down of connection and intimacy and all the things that help our relationships fall apart. So what did I just say there? I said that things that don't work in relationships is normal. It's universal. We're all going to experience them. How we handle them is the difference maker. And so we know with 100% certainty that even those couples you admire and think have it all figured out, they have challenges too. They're just better at resolving and getting through them instead of allowing them dismantle their relationships. It's not because they're better people than you. It's not because they're more handsome or beautiful than you or smarter or more talented than you. It's because they figured out, usually by chance, how to get through them and maintain the connection that they've always had.

Or perhaps they've been at a place where you as a listener may find yourself when they chose to be able to turn and face it. Perhaps work with a skilled professional and use that as a catalyst to create a 2.0.

Exactly.

And now, ladies and gentlemen, we will be getting to sign number one.

Yeah.

Emotional distance. I'm taking over because we need to move along now. See, every once in a while, I do know my role. Sign number one, emotional distance. Take it away, Mrs. Bartley.

Well, that's usually the first sign that things are slipping away. We start to notice that connection is atrophying between us. And usually, if we don't understand the principles of intimacy and connection, this might be a place where we note it, but then we just continue on course. We don't know what else to do about it. So we know that it's atrophying, but we just kind of cross our fingers and hope that it's going to be okay. And then we disregard it without realizing. No, that's a sign that we probably need to share, spend some time together, reset, recalibrate. Because the reality is, everybody's relationship ebbs and flows in this place of emotional connection. And when the emotional distance happens, which is inevitable, it's going to happen. It's not a moment to panic so much as it is a sign that we need to spend some time together. We need to come together, recalibrate, and go again. But instead, what we do is we allow this emotional distance to continue to happen because we don't know how to address it or what to do differently. And so with those teeny, tiny things compiling into bigger things that then turn into bigger things, small problem now, big problem later. What you notice then is the emotional safety begins to evaporate. And so the vulnerability to share, to ask, to connect with you, also goes up in smoke. So I'm no longer vulnerable. I'm no longer saying what I want to say. I long for you, but I don't know how to get close to you. And the connection begins to atrophy. Also, what grows is the disconnect of self. Not just the connection with your partner, but the disconnect with yourself. Results in maybe an internal chaos because you're starting to make up some terrible things about yourself or your partner or both, typically. And so this unravels my own sense of self or my own version of self. And so how do we regain a sense of safety when there is so much water under the bridge? I've dismantled me and trying to please you. You've probably done the same. We've grown to a place where we're stonewalling. We don't know how to talk about it. We don't have sex anymore. We're too caught up in work and the kids and paying bills. We don't take the time to even attempt to reestablish the connection. And all Of a sudden, we find ourselves in this place of emotional distance. So here's the thing we need to do instead in order to work through all of that that's transpired a little bit over time is we need to find an anchor place within ourselves, a center, and we need to let go. And this is usually the hard part is the attempts to fix or manipulate our partners, thinking that if we just save them or diagnose them or label them or fix them, then everything's going to go back to status quo or normal. Because often when we approach with these types of ideologies, which are so prolific and so taught and so preached across the board in social media and the like, what happens is I turn into a version of myself I never intended to become. And then we lose a sense of who we are individually as well.

How many times have we heard basically a version of what you just shared? Stacy, Tom, Brooke. I'm turning into a version of myself that I don't even like.

But I have to do this to save my marriage. I have to go down this path in order.

I have to. Yeah, I have to treat them like they're my child and keep my eyes on them and make sure they're doing everything right. We all know how that turns out.

Or they've done these things to me and I must make them pay. They're malicious. Their intent is malicious. What they're doing to me is malicious. How could they do this to me? And these are all conversations that we are in this place of, so focused on what our partner is doing and not doing, that we've lost sight of ourselves. And then in my reactions to, yes, the suffering that is real, that is happening, the panic that's setting in because of the emotional disconnect, we start allowing ourselves to do and say things in a desperate attempt to save this whole thing, which is the part that turns me into a version of myself that I never intended to be, thinking that this will be the last desperate attempt to save my relationship without realizing no. It's what we call the race to the bottom. The intent is sweet, the process is not principled, and the skills are completely missing.

The thing that emotional disconnection always makes me think of is, you know, that feeling of when you get in the car, maybe from like a stressful interaction or a stressful day at work, and you need to tell someone about it. And before, it would always be your spouse and you would call them and you would tell them the whole thing and they would. They wouldn't even have to like, Ask names of co workers, because they would just know because you were that connected. Well, a certain thing happens when you get into this mode of emotional disconnection where the thought of doing that, of making that call, becomes more hard than the reward you would get of doing it. You're like, the thought of calling my husband or my partner and telling them this sounds awful. I would just rather call my dad or my friend and tell them about it because I wouldn't have to go through all the rigmarole. And you have to realize it's not because. It's not because you're with a bad person or that your relationship sucks. It's because you've disconnected emotionally, and it's not really anyone's fault. It's both of your faults. The point I'm trying to make is that often we think, oh, this is the point in my relationship where it's time to get a divorce or it's time for us to move on from each other because we're just not right anymore. No, it's because you haven't put in that work to keep that emotional connection going. And the natural result of that is that it's faded and the threads that are keeping you close have become loose. So I always try to explain this to people. It's not that there's nothing left. It's that you have to reweave yourself back together. You tell those stories, those little anecdotes, and tell them about your quirky coworker and tell them, you know, what you were thinking when you ate this for lunch because that's how you created them in the first place. And just because you created them once does not mean that they're going to stay together forever. I know we say this all the time, and we're not trying to beat a dead horse or make fun of you for not knowing. It's because it's so important. You hear it all the time. Because we get into our heads and the thoughts that are healthy get kicked out by our negative, obsessive thinking. And you have to remember that relationships are just like any other thing. They take constant and very consistent effort. Otherwise, the feelings, the actions, all the things that keep it healthy fade just like anything else in life. And that's not a bad thing. It's just a fact.

Yeah. And. And I would say it's not anybody's fault. We just don't know better. We've never been taught, we've never learned the principles that rudder this most dynamic emotional experience we have as human beings. And so Everybody is desperately doing whatever they know to be done. And most of the demonstrations that we have when emotional disconnect starts to happen is probably fraught with power and control, manipulation, leveraging, coercing, belittling, minimizing, ultimatums. Yes, and. And we'll talk more about that, because those are all also signs that things are really heading south. But the first place that you're probably going to really feel it in your relationship is you start to notice that the emotional connection that you once had is starting to slip away. And you notice that you for your partner. And then, as Brookie said, you start questioning whether you should reach for them or not, or whether they're going to reach for you. And you might even make up a horror story about why they're not reaching for you without realizing you have the power to do it, too. And it doesn't mean that your relationship is over or that everybody has malicious intent. And that's why the disconnect, the ebb and flow of feeling incredibly connected and intimate, ebbs and flows with feelings of disconnect. And that's normal. How we handle it is everything. And so that will typically be the very first place you'll start to notice it. And when we find ourselves in this place, you know, what's ironic is it's not about managing your partner and getting them to do what you need them to do. We must come home to ourselves first and do the work of translating our own thoughts, feelings, and emotions into a language that we first can understand. You know why? Because to establish that connection that you once had, you're going to be able to put all of that information into a language that then you can share. Because, see, that's how connection is created. When I share a little bit of me with you and you do the same, and I have the ability to listen, that is how the threads of connection actually reappear. So if I'm just a hot mess myself and I don't understand why I feel or think the way I do or what I need or what I want or where I want to go, and I don't have the capacity to listen and explore and understand you too well, then this emotional disconnection that you're feeling will continue to take place. So I must start with me. The second sign that this is starting to stack and maybe escalate a little bit is you have repeated arguments, and it's not just an argument. Sure, we can have arguments and disagreements, agreements all the time, but what's going to start to happen with the emotional Disconnecting, happening as well, is that these arguments that you have start to escalate. Like they start to get away from you. You're not any longer trying to solve and understand and find the solutions to get you through it. No, no, no, no, no. This is a whole new chapter where all of a sudden I'm starting to get competitive, a little critical. I'm starting to snap out my evidence of validation in regards to why you are more of a hot mess than me and how you've done it more egregiously than I. And we are starting down this path of escalation.

Would you say that we get into what we often say, starting to weaponize.

You know, And I would also say just absolute, emotionally breaking down, you know, like sobbing. I remember just sobbing on the bathroom floor for hours after arguments. Ex husband. Just because I just felt so broken, you know, And I felt so unsupported and so unheard and like I was speaking to a wall. But I know he felt exactly the same way. It's like we were not reaching each other at all. And no matter how loud we yelled or how softly we spoke or what words we use, there was no understanding happening.

Constant arguments and building resentments are a sign of poor communication and unmet needs. I like to say behind every resentment is an unasked request. And so I'm just stacking on it. I'm just making up malicious stories. I'm demonizing, weaponizing what my partner's doing, what I'm doing, what they're thinking, and these unmet needs turn into egregious acting out. Look, I only have two options here, emotionally, to function as a human being. I know how to translate my thoughts, feelings, and emotions into a language that we can talk about and share, or I'm going to act it out. Like those are your options. And that's why escalation happens and the fights get louder and stronger, is because we're not talking so much to seek solutions and understanding. We're actually acting it out instead. Because the emotional intensity and resentment and fear has become so overwhelming that all I can do, like Brooke described, is lay on the bathroom floor and cry or attack you and make you see how much I'm hurting. And this idea is so prolific, too. If I make you hurt, then maybe you'll understand how much I hurt. And I want you to know that never works. Because what I do to hurt you then impacts me. If I'm going to make you pay or I'm going to make you hurt, I'm not going to feel good about who I am. And this is how our relationships start to turn ourselves into monsters of me that I don't recognize that we've already touched on.

This episode is really hitting me. I can viscerally feel these feelings. I feel like I'm being like transported back a couple years in time. I would say it also makes where your home just feels like such a dark, dark place, you know, it just feels hopeless and so dark, like there's no way out. And you just can't imagine what it feels like to feel good.

Oftentimes we hear people, they don't even want to go home. You don't even want to go to your own place. That typically I would hope for really most or all of us. A home is a place of repose.

And it's supposed to be a sacred place, right?

But yeah, it's a place now you've developed, you've created that you don't even want to go home.

So how do we turn this around? In this place, it's not so much about the fighting to prove a point or to get them to feel the pain that you're suffering in. It's about learning how to clearly express what you need using foundational principles and structured communication skills. It's about you doing that translation that we've already touched on. Because if you can't do it, guess what? Nobody else can. That's work that only you can do. And then as we continue down this road of more and more warning signs, the third sign I would say to you is there's a violation of where I end and you begin. And it keeps breaking down. We keep negating and disregarding what works for my partner or what works for me. Minimize the struggles that my partner might be happening because I don't relate to them. And I say, oh, don't worry about that, that's no big deal. I say, these are the things I need, please don't do this anymore. And then I railroad through them and blow through them like, right, it shouldn't matter, because it's not something that's important to me. And these are things that we would call boundaries on the traditional conversation. I'm not necessarily a fan of that word because I think it imposes the idea that there's ultimatums and hard lines and no flexibility. And I don't believe that that's what a boundary is at all. A boundary is where I end and you begin. And what works for me may not work for you. And what you need may not work for Me. But how do we have the conversations we need to have so that we don't spend our lives together invalidating each other and the true and real life experiences that we are having in real time? See, here's the thing. If we don't understand this, there is this place of emotional capacity that we all have, and if we put it into the likeness of physical capacity, it starts to make a lot more sense. Would I demand that my partner mow the lawn, make dinner, and pick up the children if I knew that they were incapacitated physically with whatever ailment they're wrestling with at the moment? It could be surgery. It could be a health issue. It could be Covid. It could be the flu. It could be something I would not even imagine demanding that you get up and you do these things.

Well, let's just use our own life. I just had my knee replaced, you know, earlier this summer. So Stacy was pretty nice and didn't demand that I go out and mow the yard while I was laying on the couch with my new knee. I mean, I literally couldn't do it. I mean, I'm a pretty quick healer, but not that quick.

Well, and where I'm going is there's a thing in us called emotional capacity, too.

Right?

And we negate emotional capacity all the time. And I feel like if I have the capacity to do it, then you should, too. And not only should you do it, if I have the emotional capacity or recognize I do that, you should do it like I do it. You should be smart enough and love me enough in order to be able to pull that off without realizing. Just like physical energy, we all have varying degrees of emotional capacity within us. We just don't know to talk about them.

And is it fair to say when we're not in a good place in places that we're describing and sharing with our audience today, does that kind of run parallel with our emotional capacity?

Well, you know, what's common, I'll tell you right now, is somebody's making up a malicious story that their partners are doing these terrible things to them in this malicious intent. And the reality is they're so spent in their emotional capacity, they can barely get their underwear on. They're not even thinking about you. They're just trying to get through the day. You know, that's the reality of it. And that's an emotional capacity thing. So think for yourself, listener, right now. If you had to gauge your emotional capacity, what would it be? What would the. What would the gauge be? Are you full? You Ready to go? You thriving? You half tank? I got some in the tank, but I'm not on E. Or is that thing buried on E and beyond?

When there's a little bit more emotional safety back in your relationship, that would be a good thing that you and your partner communicated with each other. Hey, my emotional capacity is on E right now. You know, like, it could be a thing where you don't take it personally. You just are open and you share about it so that you don't take their behavior or things that maybe they say that they wouldn't normally say personally because you have that knowledge of where they're at emotionally.

Oftentimes we will say your emotional gas tank. So in ours just have the metaphoric similarity to, you know, whatever you drive. I often ask people on our clarity calls, I'll ask them, like, if you had to, you know, use your emotional part of your life, and if it was a tank, just like. Like, whatever you drive, where would you say the gauge is? And many times it's flickering on empty. Or it's empty, there's nothing left.

You guys, I just got a good product idea that we could create beautiful. You know how they have those little magnets for households that tell, like, the other person in the house if their dishwasher is clean or empty? We could. We could create an emotional gas. Gas tank meter that has a sliding arm where they could just. You know what I mean? This is where I am today.

That's a pretty great idea, my partner. Yeah, it's a great idea. It's a really great idea. And, hey, if you know how to get these manufactured, you know, that's your business. That's your thing.

Reach out to us. Yeah.

Yeah. Be fun. The thing is this. We can disregard that we have emotional capacities, and we might be on similar pages. And when we don't understand what's challenging for my partner, I have a tendency, if I don't relate to it, to disregard it. And this is why we blow through those, you know, boundaries, because I don't think it's a big deal. It's not a big deal for me, so it shouldn't be a big deal for you. And that disregard, we are violating where I end and you begin, which is what a boundary is. And if we were to put this again into physical terms, my greatest metaphor is this. If somebody was crossing the line and stepping on your foot, whether it was somebody you loved or somebody that was a stranger while you were waiting in the grocery store at line, how long would it take you to Say, excuse me, you're stepping on my foot. And then when you realize that you've actually crossed that line as a human being, for most of us, we're horrified, aren't we? Oh, my gosh, I'm so sorry. I can't believe that I disregarded that. And to blatantly just do it again because I was totally disregarding you would be like, I'm so unkind.

Well.

And so unempathetic.

And it would barely ever happen. Let's just barely ever. Almost never happen.

We know that that's so.

That's a no flies appropriate because of.

What is going to create the drama. It's going to create the resentment, the anger with the escalation. And I want you to see the same is true emotionally. Now, look, the thing that emotionally is difficult is there is no physical substance to it, like a foot. And I can't look down and see where mine ends and yours begins. But emotionally, there is a place where I end and you begin. And that's what trips us up, because I can't see it. I disregard it. Even though somebody is saying, this really hurts. You're on my toe. You're on my emotional toe. Please stop. This isn't helping. This doesn't work. Please stop. We keep blowing through it. And that would be just the same as if I had somebody say, you're on my foot. Could you please step back? And I went, no, I'm going to keep stepping on it. I'm going to keep stepping on it. I'm going to keep stepping on. It's no big deal. You should just get over it. We do that emotionally all the time. And now maybe I hope that you see in this metaphor why the resentment begins to build and why the disregard and invalidation and pain and suffering begins to mount. And how often do we even acknowledge the fact that somebody's stepping on my emotional toe? Like we'll let them step. Just hang out there for forever. Months, months, weeks, years. I mean, no big deal. I'll just take it. I'm gonna sacrifice myself for the relationship. It's no big deal. Just keep stepping on my toe. You know, I can take it. It means I'm strong and I'm resilient and I'm doing the best and I love you without realizing. No, it doesn't do any of those things. It disregards you. It invalidates the understanding that your partner needs to know that this is a place where I end and you begin. I understand you don't relate, but it's important that you do acknowledge it. We're crossing lines here. We're not respecting nor do we understand where I end and you begin. And I don't know how to talk about it and I don't know how to discover it and I don't know how to declare it. And so what needs to happen is we need to stop the violation and invalidation that each of us are doing from whatever perspectives we're coming from. Because relationships break down when partners fail to understand and respect each other's limits of emotional capacity and invalidate their needs of where I end and you begin. And so this is another escalation of emotional disconnect followed by acting out escalating fights, lots of drama, followed by disregard for where everybody's emotional capacity is and where everybody's lines of where I end and you begin are. And so we steamroll over them, or we just allow them to happen without saying anything and we start to understand. Okay, that makes so much sense, I hope, in regards to how these little things become big things over time. The solution here is we've got to explore and share where I end and you begin from our own sense of self. And you can start to see why over and over and over again, that click cliche that we all are probably tired of and sick of. In the relationship space of, oh, great relationships, they start with you. You gotta love yourself. That's where they come from. But I want you to understand why. That said, because if you don't know and understand these places and spaces where you end and somebody else begins, you're going to get violated. Not because of the malicious intent of your partner so much as you won't speak up and make it known. Known. Nor do you understand it for yourself. It's tricky because remember, emotional experiences are invisible. There's no test, there's no comparison. There's no judgment. That happens here. I need to know and understand it for myself. And the only way I can do that is if I spend a little time with me and then I muster up the courage with some skill and principle to be able to share those things with my partner. And then my partner needs to be ready to listen and understand because they realize this is happening for them too.

And this is. This is by talking, meaning we have to verbalize these things because they are invisible. Otherwise how would we ever expect it to be known? See, there is the challenge. When you're in the grocery line and you step on somebody's foot, they're very quick to say, excuse me. See? So they quickly talk and Let you know you have violated their boundaries. Well, the same thing is required emotionally, but we just have no idea how to do it.

While we don't really know where those lines are, I can't distinguish why I'm suffering. Is it because you're maliciously hurting me or is it because I just don't understand or know how to speak up for what I need? Those are important things. And this is all going to culminate into the human practice. And we're all very good at this. We are experts in the field.

This is sign number four.

Four. Sign number four. We step into manipulation and power struggles.

Oh, boy.

And we're just tempting to get our needs met to. To deal with the suffering. There's a saying that's so true. Violence is what happens when I don't know what to do with my suffering. And I'm not just talking a light egregious violence. I'm talking about small acts of violence. Because remember those two things I talked about already? I can talk about it and then through a place of understanding and being able to translate my experience into something I understand so that I can share it with you, or I'm going to act it out. And this is where we start contemplating. I'm sitting around thinking at night how I might enroll or coerce my partner into doing or not doing what I think they should stop or start doing. And that's what I spend my time thinking about out. Like, how am I going to get them to enroll? How am I going to get them to stop? What should I do? How should I react? How should I respond? What's my appropriate thing? And what we tend to do in this place, in space, which is tragic in my opinion, is we label them, We diagnose. And yeah, I just got emotional there because there's a tremendous amount of suffering that happens when we go down that path. We're turning them more and more and more into a malicious monster as I become a malicious monster myself. What happens and what needs to happen is we need to get below the labels, because that's how you arrived here in the first place. You got below the labels. You didn't sit around and label and diagnose and take the quizzes. And there's a tremendous amount of destruction that happens when we sit around and spend our time doing that. It is not going to take you anywhere. Sure, it fuels your sense of manipulation and need for validation for a brief moment, but then how you start to show up and respond in your relationship is going to further destroy it. So please, please, please do not step into a place where you are diagnosing your partner and labeling them as such and such. Sure, their behavior may be like this, but that is not who they are and it is not who you are. Is it a behavior and an experience that we're having? And if you're sitting around thinking about how you're going to manipulate them, coerce them, beg them, criticize them, blame them, make them pay, then you are engaged in this manipulative power struggle that is going to further deteriorate your relationship.

I just want to add something, share that quote. Often violence is what we do when we don't know what to do with our suffering. And you touched on it. But I just want our listeners to understand. Yeah, mom too said we're not really talking about abuse situations when we share that quote. We're talking about violence in ways like manipulating your partner, yelling at them, in labeling them, I think would be a form of violence. In this example that we're using. Talking behind their back with your friends and making them the villain, calling them a name during an argument. Those are all little forms of violence. Little, because think about it. They are dismantling, dismantling the emotional safety in your relationship and that is the foundation of your marriage or your long term partnership. So that is the violence we're speaking of. And I think it's really important that you understand that because then you can understand why you are led to do these things. You're led to do these things because you're in so much pain and you don't know what else to do. But in this podcast episode, we are showing you the flip side of the coin. We're showing you what you can do that is the opposite of violence. I just think it's a really interesting way to look at our relationships because it perfectly describes what is happening here.

Yeah. Yep. Absolutely. Well, and, and violence is what violence is. Anything that oversteps or disregards or, or attempts to punish or criticize or blame others for the suffering that I'm having. In all of its smaller forms, we think of violence and abuse as these egregious things, but actually for the majority of us, they're very small things that grow into bigger things over time.

I think that, I think the real baseline for most people we will get their arms around is, is this punitive? Yeah, right. Does this have a. Am I going about this from a punitive place? Because it's so natural, we don't often have other tools and skills to use. It has become normalized but don't disregard the damage that it does inflict.

Well, let me just say two things. Number one, if you are in a situation where your partner is physically abusing you, that is not what we are talking about here. And, and you need to do whatever you can to get to safety. And I will share some resources that you can use in the show notes of this episode. And number two, if you hear the word manipulation that we're saying so frequently throughout this episode and you think to yourself, oh, I never manipulate, I would invite you to please listen to some of our manipulation episodes, which I will also put in the show notes. Because I think. Think I'm, you know, I'm. I'm laughing a little bit. Just because everyone manipulates. We all do it. We do it daily. Every single day. You manipulate someone, sometimes even yourself, because it's how we've learned to communicate in our society. It's a whole. It's a whole long thing. We talk about it a lot in other episodes, but the reason why I'm bringing it up is I don't want you to just blow over that word and think, oh, I never do that. Because manipulation runs rampant in all of our relationships. And it's really important for you to be able to. To recognize when it's being done to you, but more importantly when you're doing it to other people. So I think we just. We all assume we're not manipulators because it's a bad word that's been made a bad word. It's like, no, that's a bad thing if you do it. And it's not necessarily always a bad thing, but it is important to recognize the signs and the effects of manipulation.

And I'm just going to say this for the third time in this episode, maybe I've said it more. Remember, we only have two options. As a human being, I know how to translate my thoughts, feelings, and emotions into something that I can share, or I'm going to act it out. And that's why violence is what happens when I don't know what to do with my suffering. That's why those things go hand in hand. So power imbalances and manipulation, they're going to erode trust and emotional safety, and they're going to escalate into emotional drama in our relationships. I just want to say. I want to pause right here and just talk about drama for a minute. Drama is the addition of escalated emotions to any given circumstance. We can heighten them or we can start to try and minimize them. So we can find the solutions that are embedded in them. It's worth pondering. Are we clearly communicating what needs to be said, or are we intensifying the situation by adding emotional escalation? Drama is really great for theatrical performances. However, it's also going to add too much complexity to a conversation when the pursuit is an attempt to find solutions and get ourselves through it. If you add drama just for the sake of dramatizing a fight or a situation, and we know when we're adding to it, and we know when we're trying to, like, pump the brakes on it, there's some pretty intense emotions that tell us where we are if we're paying attention. Just recognize and realize. If you're going to add emotional drama, then you've just increased the complexity of getting to a solution and getting through it. And then it drains our emotional gas tank. We run a knee and then we throw our hands in the air and say, I can't do this anymore. So the solution to this is learn to recognize manipulation and implement healthier behavior and communication strategies to rebalance the relationship. And the last one I'm going to touch on in this episode. I know we've given you a ton. These are so important. I hope that you see how they start to stack as well. Lack of intimacy is going to be the net result of this. Have sex with you. Be intimate. It give a about what you need and what you don't. Please call somebody who gives a damn. That's usually where we end up in this place of escalation, because intimacy requires vulnerability. Think about it. It's how you got into this situation to begin with. Remember how vulnerable you were and how open you were to share in your thoughts, your feelings, your emotions, what you needed, what hurt, where you wanted to go, your hopes and dreams of who you hoped to become, and where you hope to experience life in the future when you came together with your partner, however long ago that was. And then slowly but surely what started to really wane in this whole situation you're going to find is vulnerability. And the more these warning signs happen, the less vulnerable I become, and the less vulnerable I become, the more disconnected we feel, the less I'm willing to share anything vulnerable with you. The more this thing is going to continue to fall apart. Saying you want intimacy and connection with your partner, but not willing to be vulnerable is like saying, I'm going to be a millionaire, but you refuse to get a damn job. You can't get there without doing it. And so if you say you want these things. Stop manipulating and demonizing your partner and start thinking about ways you need to be safe within yourself so that you can be vulnerable about saying what you need to say and essentially teaching your partner how to love you best. That is absolutely something that will not only re establish the connection, but will also reestablish your desire to be intimate in all the places and spaces that we can be as a human being, physically, emotionally, spiritually, intellectually. Intellectually. We have a really good time with that one, don't we? Thomas? My favorite. These are the things that need to happen that absolutely can bring your relationship back to places and spaces that are still available. Quite frankly, you've simply never learned the principles and skills that govern these very important but wonderful things that we all seek.

Is there a place where people can go to learn these skills? Does that exist?

It absolutely does. I want to say before I go there, look, divorce isn't inevitable if you take action. These warning signs and signals that we've touched on here today can be the thing that shifts how you approach it and what you focus on. And they absolutely help you build and sustain a healthy relationship. Not just turn it around, but sustain you into the future as well. So I personally, along with Brooke and Tom, encourage you to take control of your relationship by using some practical tools and skills. It's time to reverse course before it's too late. And you can do that by heading over to stacybartley.com forward/waitlist. And what you're going to find there is a Blueprint for Avoiding Divorce program. It's a step by step guide for addressing the warning signs and rebuilding a thriving relationship that can help you do the things that we've touched on here today. Listen again. Don't wait. I hope your house isn't burning down, but if it is, please run over there and get on the wait list. If you go like Brooke said in the beginning of our conversation today, it's not so bad. No, we don't need help. Oh, for the love of God, don't let the word divorce fool you. Why not skill up before you need it, knowing that you're on solid ground, that you've got the principles and the basic skills that you need in order to intend ensure that what you're experiencing today will continue to thrive for a lifetime? That's what we're about here, love for a lifetime, however we do it. But it's going to require daily understanding of sound principles and skills to make it.

And I will just add, because you know, you all know if you've listened for any period of time. They call me Radar here. And if you're listening live, I believe it's October 6th is when this will be available. And this will be just the first of of number of pathways. But this is where we're starting because this is where most people reach out to. So it's going to be within reach, you know, for everyone. We're really committed to really making this available because we see so much suffering out there. Stacy's one on one calendar is about a month out and we just need to be able to serve more people.

Yeah. And. And it, it's an affordable option. I think that is what you're trying to say. It will be an affordable option for everybody. There will be a payment plan available and it also will come with 90 days of access to the Better Love Club Monday night calls. So you will be able to go through the whole course in that amount of time if you want to, or you could take longer if you want, but you'll be able to ask questions and connect with us live every Monday for 90 days when you decide to join.

And there also will be a self paced option too. Brooke, you're correct.

Yeah.

If you don't choose to want to be part of the Monday night classes, that's okay too. Again, as you guys know, all we want to do is to inspire you to take action because we know by doing this over 10 years, 99 of the people that reach out to us say they've waited too long. They have. And this can be something that can be used as a catalyst to create something better instead of a breakdown.

Yeah.

Okay. It really is.

Let's step into our follow the fun, shall we?

Yes.

I want you to ponder the balancing act for a moment.

Like on a tightrope.

Yeah, kind of. You know, the balancing act that I'm going to talk about here though, is often what prevents us from turning a corner and going a different direction is a little thing called fear.

Oh, gosh.

Yeah. And the fear of, oh, they're not going to accept it. They're going to respond, they're going to react. That's the way it always goes. I know them. They're not. The conversation that goes on that keeps us in a place of feeling stuck is fear. So I want to give you a moment to just ponder your own struggle between fear and love. How many times do you push your partner away when really what you want is to have them come close? How many times do you want them to pay or think that you need to make them pay because they've hurt your feelings. But what you really want to do is get a hug or some reassurance or, or just spend some time laughing together. And I want you to know that how you might step into this struggle to understand is important. How might you do that? Once you've identified what your own struggle is between fear and love, how might you step into this struggle to understand it? Love him, pull him close instead of push them out so that you can move through it, understand what they might be going through too you. It's a challenge that I ask you to explore first for yourself and identify those fears and what your own personal struggle is and why you believe that you need to make them pay or stay stuck in fear instead of pull them close. And then I challenge you to maybe risk pulling them close instead anyway, and stepping through the fear and seeing what happens there. Our song this week is a little song by Vivian Green. She is a powerhouse of a vocal Love her work, love her songs. Very soulful. This emotional roller coaster is a great, appropriate song. I feel for our episode because she sings Loving you isn't nothing healthy Loving you is nothing good for me I'm tired of making you love me Then disappearing so suddenly up and down it goes But I can't seem to get off It's a emotion no roller. Anyway, you can check out this song along with all of our songs for our entire podcast episodes. I don't know, close to 200 of them now. Unbelievable. By searching up Love Shack Live playlist on Spotify or visiting our podcast page@stacybartley.

I just had a thought that just came into my mind that is very, very important for our listeners. You may be thinking, okay, Tom, Stacy, Brook, this sounds awesome, but my husband, my wife, no way are they ready to step into this. That is a great question. And our bad for not sharing this because I will share with you. Over the 10 years, by far more people, even when they're coupled, come to us individually than both people raising their hands at the same time. That usually doesn't happen. So we are all about that. So you step in, you raise your hand, you come join us, whatever. Either option that makes sense for you. And if and when your partner, your husband, your wife, significant other would like to join you, just let us know. If they're part of the Better Love Club, part of the option, they'll need to sign a confidentiality agreement like you, but we'll help you get that person, that spouse into the program. They'll have their own access to the program, it's not a problem. What usually happens is when this takes place is neither one of you get help. There's further degradation, there's further despair, and things don't. Nothing changes. So if you are inspired and this speaks to you, then you step in and join. And oftentimes your change behavior is a catalyst that will get your partner to step forward on board. Can we guarantee that? No, we can't, because we can't predict human behavior. But we know from our 10 years that it happens often. So it's something that we have built our programs like that because we know, well, gosh, that's what happens normally. I mean, very rarely do both people raise their hands at the same time. It doesn't usually happen. So we say, well, let's build it for that. So just step in. It's okay.

Well, that's a wrap. You can tell we're not passionate about this at all. I hope that these warning signs help you and more importantly, I hope it helps you understand where you are and the things that you need to keep an eye on and consider when navigating, day in and day out, your precious relationship. That's what we're here for, to help you build a thriving one. Because they are so precious to us. Our very lives are foundationally built on these things. Don't you think it's time that we learn to keep that foundation sound best we can them? Well, we would say so. It's what we do in our own lives and it's what we teach and mentor our incredible clients in doing. And it's the reason why we do this podcast. So thank you so much for listening. I hope that you found some gems and some takeaways here that will benefit your life and relationship. That's why we do what we do, sending you tons of love and a big squeeze, as I like to say. Until next time, we look forward to being back here with you again. Bye bye for now.

All right, it's time to leave the Love Shack. But before we part ways, we want you to know our door is always open and we'll leave the porch light on. Ready to welcome you back whenever you need a dose of relationship wisdom. For more resources and tools, Visit us at loveshacklive.com to dive deeper into the topics we've explored and find find additional support for your relationship journey. Stay connected by subscribing to our podcast. Thank you for being part of our Love Shack live community.