#209: Space in Your Relationship: Do’s, Don’ts, and the Answers You Need Most

You wake up in the silence of unanswered questions, the weight of uncertainty pressing hard on your chest. They've asked for space, and now it feels like your relationship is teetering on the edge of something you can't quite name. The fear is real. What does this mean? How do you respond? And the one question that lingers most. What the hell do I do now? Welcome to Love Shack Live, a podcast where we tackle the messy, beautiful, and complicated realities of love. If you're standing at a crossroads in your relationship, feeling like you've tried it everything and still long for a genuine, lasting connection, you're in the right place. I'm your host, Stacy Bartley, a relationship mentor, joined by my co host and lover, Tom, and our daughter Brooke. Together, we've walked with thousands of couples through their toughest moments, guiding them to rediscover their strength and rebuild their connection. In today's rebroadcast, we're revisiting one of the most popular and powerful episodes. When your partner asks for space. Your questions answered. This conversation struck a chord with so many listeners because it dives straight into one of the hardest truths about relationships. That space doesn't have to be the end. In fact, it can be an invitation to transform both yourself and your relationship in ways you've never imagined in this moment. What if this space isn't about them pulling away, but about you finding your footing? What if, instead of spiraling into fear, you could use this time to create clarity, calm, and even hope? In this episode, we're answering the big questions you've been asking. Why does space feel so painful? How do you navigate it without losing yourself or your relationship? And most importantly, how do you use this time to grow rather than crumble under the weight of uncertainty? Whether you've heard this episode before or are listening for the first time, stay with me here, because together we're going to unpack what it means to turn a moment of fear into a powerful opportunity for growth. So let's dive in.

Hey, thank you for coming. Welcome to the Love Shack.

So I want you to imagine you and us together in a room, sitting in a circle. The three of us are at the head of the circle, and the space is for you to ask any question that might be coming up for you around this conversation of space and separation. Brooke is the moderator. The questions come from the thousands of comments and shares we have recently received from that episode. So let's dive in. Brooke, what's our first question?

The first question is one that created quite a bit of conversation. In the comment section of our video that got hundreds of thousands of views. And it's about the anxious avoidant paradox. And there was a lot of discourse back and forth, some people defending the anxious side, some people defending the avoidance side. And I just thought it was a very interesting conversation that took place. So the first question is, why does the anxious partner often make sacrifices while the avoidant partner doesn't seem to have to compromise in this space Conversation, yeah.

I understand that that's how it feels. But let's just look at something else for a moment. We all have coping skills that we have acquired from typically our families of origin. And we can acquire these in many different ways. But primarily there's two survival modes that we tend to reach for when our emotional backs get pressed against the wall. The first one is the avoidant. It's like I've learned and adapted to environments as a child that I didn't know how to cope with. And my go to mechanism that I practiced hundreds of thousands of times was to just check out, go missing, disappear, tune out. Literally I can tune out to such a degree that I can't hear the voice. I don't get involved in the chaos even though it's right here in front of me. I can also learn how to dismiss myself or take myself out of the equation altogether. And that, that for the money of hundreds of thousands of times that that was my only option. That's exactly what I did. We call those people avoidant. We can call those people also a bit controlling. But basically I drop off the space of the earth and I go missing. And that is my coping skill and I hope that that makes sense to you. So when they get emotionally pressed and avoidant is going to check out, tap out, that's what they know to do. That's the only thing they have become accustomed to that's going to give them comfort and solace and the safety and protection that they're seeking because they don't know what else to do. The anxious on the other side, an anxious type that is in survival mode typically comes from a family of origin where they're trying to please, they're trying to anticipate the needs of the people that they need to please in order to be safe. So I might try and please my parents, I might try and please a sibling who is maybe overtly dominant. I might try please my lovers. And in that I'm trying to anticipate what they need, which causes me to spin up. And my belief and my coping mechanism is that if I can just make them happy, if I can just give them what they want, then all of this is going to be okay. And so an anxious is very resourceful and anxious is going to think of the thousands and myriad of ways that maybe they could please the potential person that they're trying to gain acceptance from, love from grace from, and even a sense of validation that I exist. So I'm going to continue to try and please you, serve you, show up, give you what you want, try and anticipate what it is you want. And that's what causes me to reel sometimes. And what creates a lot of anxiousness is when I feel like I've tried all of my stuff and there's nothing left to do. And now I'm reeling, I don't know what to do anymore. It seems like everything I do is not enough. And then it starts to turn on itself. Maybe I'm not enough, maybe I can't get this right, maybe I'm the problem. And that anxious obsessive thinking starts to implode on itself. So the only thing they know how to do to get comfort is to somehow figure out what it is they need to do in order to get the avoidant person to engage with them in their mind and in their coping skill. When their emotional backs get pressed against the wall is if I can just get this person to engage with me, to hear me out, to give me a hug, to hold my hand, to hang out with me, then I am going to feel so much better. And so they are on a pleasing hunt to figure out the myriad of ways that they can get that to happen. And so you, hence you see the beautiful combination I say of an anxious avoidant. And why in our attachment style theories this is such a common pairing. You can see that instead of the avoidant needing to check out and go missing, they need to learn how to be present, advocate for themselves, show up even though it's difficult. And you can see for the anxious person that they're coping style, they need to realize that space is okay, you can exhale, it's often not about you. And there's nothing in this moment that you can do for the avoidant person that's going to help you feel better. But that's a really difficult thing to do. And so you can see in those moments everybody's being required to do an emotional pushup.

So does it just appear then that one of the side of those different dynamics is paying more into this space case than the other?

It's not fact, but it does appear that way.

Yes.

So another thing that I wanted to say about the comment section is that both sides are very defensive of their own position. So because they have all of the reasons why they do the thing that they do. And in the space episode, it kind of sounded like we were defending the avoidant person stance simply because we were explaining why they were doing the thing that they were doing. The whole episode basically was like an avoidance manifesto because we were explaining why they do this, why they need the space, and why they do go missing. So it did seem like that. But I want everyone to hear that we're not defending anyone's position and we're not saying anyone is right and anyone is wrong. We're simply explaining why these things happen in relationships. And also we're telling you about them so that you know, it doesn't have to stay this way. Like, you don't have to stay anxious and you don't have to stay avoidant just because that's how the way you are now, that is not the recipe for a healthy relationship. Just so you know, this space conversation is not like, yes, this is a wonderful thing to do in your relationship. No, we want you to get to the point where this doesn't have to happen, where three to six months of space does not need to happen, because you know the tools and skills necessary to make it so space isn't required in your relationship because they're the little messes are happening and you're cleaning them up as they happen, not because they get into these giant mountains and that's why space is needed. But it's really hard to explain that in 150 characters in a comment section. So that's why we're doing this episode.

Yeah, absolutely. And I just want to point out that an anxious is more about doing. They're more about trying to figure out what needs to be done in order to engage the other person. And the reason why they get so frustrated is because the other person is in the not doing, I don't care what you do. I don't want what you do. I don't want to talk, I don't want to do anything. I just need you to leave me alone. And that's where I find my solace. And so you can start to see why the anxious person would think I'm doing and doing and doing. And I'm the only one suffering and I'm the only one trying to figure this out because the avoidant person has just gone missing. And so in not knowing what we don't know, we're going to assume, which we all do as a human being, that my side, the anxious side, is the most painful. And I'm the one that's trying to figure it out. And I'm the one doing the research and I'm the one listening to this podcast, probably, and I'm the one taking the quizzes and I'm the one trying to figure this out. And I can start to make up a terrible narrative that they don't care, they never did. I can jump to conclusions about myself, that I'm worthless, I'm not deserving, Annoying, too much, yes, all of those things. And that spirals the anxiety. And so part of an anxious person's part is to recognize that even though this person might need space is, I'm okay, I'm okay, I'm good enough. It's not about that. I gotta take care of myself, I gotta please myself. I've gotta do some self care. I've got to calm down, I've got to breathe. And that's really hard. And that's not what you're typically accustomed to, to cope with things like space. And I want you to just see on the other side, this is why I say everybody's got to do an emotional push up is the avoidant is not having a great time either. And what they need to learn to do is stop running long enough to realize that the only way you're going to solve a problem and create the love and relationship that you want is by showing up, by avoiding, by literally avoiding the temptation, the emotional drive to run like you've always done, so that we can solve this. I just recently had a precious client that I was doing a session with. And unfortunately, this is a place where they had gone round and round and round of an avoidant person connecting with an anxious person. One asking and begging and pleading for connection and conversation and commitment, and the other person saying, oh, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. And what was revealed was the anxious person saying, I'm starting to learn that when you say maybe that means no, that means that you're still on the fence and that I am enough as I am as I sit, and that I don't need to enroll you into a relationship with me to be okay, that I'm okay on my own. And all of a sudden the avoidant person was like, I never said that I've always loved you. I want you to know that I was just afraid. I was just afraid to show up and be Vulnerable. And. And that's it. They have to learn how to show up and be vulnerable. An anxious person needs to understand and learn that they are enough that to do with the equation and the enrolling them or doing things that push them into submission so that you can have your moment of connection that you think is going to solve the problem is actually just the continuation of the avoidant anxious dynamic.

What you just said perfectly illustrates a frustration that I know anxious people have. They're saying, why do we have to do all the work? And it's just because you're. And also you need to stop. But also it's just because the work that the avoidant person needs to do is invisible to you because you're so used to coming to the table, you're so used to showing up, you're so used to being vulnerable when that is so uncomfortable to the avoidant person. So that is the work that they need to do. There is work for both people to do here. We're not saying the anxious person needs to, you know, turn into an avoidant or that the avoidant person needs to turn into an anxious. That's not what we're saying. But both sides need to come towards the middle.

Well, that's what's required.

And for us simple folk out there, I think we all need to remember because we may view someone and think we. What him or her is experiencing. We don't. I would like to maybe encourage the anxious person to look at the avoidant person like we look at a swan. You know what that swan is doing below that water? Those little legs are going a million miles a minute. And how peaceful do they look on top of the water? So we don't know. And I get it. I'm not dismissing the frustration, but I am a. I'm a doer. But we can't measure everyone else by the lens of which we live life, label or otherwise.

And I just want to say to the anxious, this person in the equation, I want you to know that your role is necessary and the role that you've played in this relationship matters. Because when we have an anxious avoidant type, the anxious person is usually the one that's extracting all of the information out of the avoidant person to make the relationship go work in the first place.

Yes, yes.

And you've exhausted yourself. And I also want that to be said here, that you play a role in keeping the relationship moving. And everybody needs to learn the anxious specifically that you don't have to work so hard. It would be like me Dragging somebody that I love to the gym and saying, okay, here's the deal. I know all the things to do and I know exactly what you're up to and what you're needing to do for yourself. And here's the thing, you just watch me work out and do all the work and everything that's necessary, and you are going to feel so much better. You're going to get healthy, you're going to get strong. Why? Because I'm going to carry you to the promised land. And what we don't realize is you're doing the emotional effort, the emotional work of the entire relationship. And as long as you keep doing that, then you're literally not having the partner who's gotta get better at this do their part. And so that dynamic is constantly gonna play out in cycles. So you've gotta quit solving the problem. You've gotta ask the avoidant what it is they need and have them do the work. And I see this in my couple sessions all the time, where even the anxious will speak for the avoidant person. Give the avoidant person answers, not allow them the struggle to even be able to translate their own thoughts, feelings and emotions into a language that they can understand. And you have to understand when you're doing that, there are things that you're coming to as far as conclusions go, that the avoidant just feels more and more and more misunderstood because you're speaking for them, you're solving things for them. And all they're thinking in their inability to speak up or their unwillingness to speak up is, yeah, you don't got it right. You're still missing the mark. I'm still feeling unheard, invalidated, dismissed. I'm still feeling like you're pushy, controlling, crazy. So I don't know what else to do but to dismiss myself here in my avoidant ability to cope without realizing, no, no, no. What they need to do is advocate. Look, this doesn't work for me. Please let me talk. You know, but they're terrified to do that. That's why you fooled around and fell in love with each other in the first place. On the front side of this relationship, the anxious goes, oh, my gosh. Somebody that just lets me love them and please them and is there for them, they just accept me. It's just so wonderful. And the avoidant is like somebody who'll take the reins and you know what? I speak for me and solve my problems and I just have to love them like, this is great. Only to find ourselves in this place where no Longer is it serving? As it ramps up, the avoidant gets more avoidant, and the anxious starts spinning. And the doing and the pleasing and the getting it right. And then everybody gets exhausted and this need for space emerges.

And would it be fair to say that what you just described is truly going to help. Help change the situation would be some skills and practice.

Well, absolutely. And you can see sometimes we take these things exceptionally personal because I feel like you're doing this to me. I feel like you don't care as much as me. I feel like I'm the only one that's suffering. And just talk to either person on their side of the fence, anxious or avoidant, and everybody is feeling very much the same way. We all have our if they loved me, they would, you know, fill in the blank. They would do this, they would understand, they would know better, blah, blah, blah. What ends up happening here is there's no conversation that's happening about where everybody is, and everybody's making up their own narratives about this. And then they're stacking on that and building on that, which is going to engage any couple in what I call the race to the bottom.

Last thing I want to say, and then we need to move to the next question, is that most people are like, well, why is this happening? You know, why are we at this point where my partner needs space? Why can't they just tell me they love me? And it's like, well, you built your relationship on a shaky foundation, but not because either of you were bad, because you didn't know better. You didn't have the tools and skills you needed. So this space is allowing you to regroup and rebuild the foundation to be stronger and get the tools and skills you need. But it's not a reflection that you guys suck or that, you know, this relationship sucks or that one of you is terrible. It's. You just didn't know what you didn't know. And that's, again, something that's very hard to convey in the comments. So I'm glad we're having this conversation.

I want you to see it as a sign or a beacon that says this relationship needs to transform because it's no longer serving the two incredible people in it. And if you're going to assume anything, assume that you both care, because this wouldn't be so painful if you both didn't care. And that what's playing out here is that you're both coping and you're coping in a way that you only know. And that makes sense to the person who's coping in it. It doesn't make any sense to the people who are trying to understand something outside of themselves. I hope that gives you comfort, because we don't understand what's happening with another human being unless they have the capacity to share it with us. Anything else that we're doing in those assumptions is just that we're making up a narrative that we believe wholeheartedly is true. And then we stack and build on that, and then we behave and act as though that narrative that's probably completely off base is true. And you can start to see where we start behaving and allowing ourselves to behave in ways that are so out of character for us. That's what ends up destroying my own sense of self as well as the relationship I'm so trying to desperately save. And so if the person isn't able to share it with you and you're inserting all of the blank spaces, well, then you probably don't have the correct story.

And would you say that's the exact reason why I hear so many times on clarity calls, People say, tom, I'm turning into a person that I don't even like.

Yeah.

Yes.

Yes. And I've been that person. I don't even like. You know, I.

All three of us have.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And. And so that's how we get there just to. To eliminate the mystery of it. So just to recap, I mean, that was a very long winded answer recap, though. Avoidant and an anxious style naturally attract very nicely because you're offsetting things that I know I'm not very good at or that I'm uncomfortable with on both sides. The avoidant an provides this calm, seemingly stable presence that an anxious so loves. Right. They spin much slower than an anxious does. And it just feels so solid and so validating. And an anxious is so busy pleasing and doing and solving the problems of life that it allows the avoidant to just kind of hang out and cheer the other person on until they start speaking for me and doing for me, and then I start to feel dismissed and invalidated. And the anxious person starts to spin up. And when they stop getting the validation that they need, they feel like they more solve more, figure it out. So they start to spin up as the avoidant person starts to spin down. It's not right, it's not wrong, it's not good, it's not bad. It's just simply two ways of coping with the emotional, shall we say, storms of life. And we come by them rightly. Meaning I have developed these very early on in my childhood. And so we can't deem them right or wrong, we can't judge them or compare them. I mean, we can, but it's not going to take us anywhere. We're both going to get very frustrated and it doesn't take us anywhere good. What needs to happen is for us to realize that we are dynamic. We are. And we can change and we can grow and we can understand and we create, can create many, many things. And in this moment we need to create the ability to show up better for ourselves and for each other. So that's the beacon that I want you to see when somebody says and I need space. It's the call to transform together as a couple, to co create in ways that are going to ask me to grow and they're going to ask my partner to grow. And if we want to go forward, there is no other option here. If I defend my space, thinking it's your problem and you've got to be the one to change, not going to work. And if I blame myself and beat myself up, it's not going to work. And if I think that I'm justified in continuing, it's not going to work. So we've got to be able to both be willing to learn new skills, understand, grow, be self reflective, take responsibility for the fact there's no guilt in it. There should be no shame in being anxious or avoidant. One is not necessarily superior, inferior to the other. They're both very painful places to live that give us exactly what it is we say we don't want when it comes to the relationship experience.

The independent slash interdependent dichotomy. How can one build interdependence with a partner who is focused on independence? Meaning it seems like to the non avoidant person that the avoidant person is like hard fast on maintaining their independence in the relationship. So how can you bond with each other when that seems to be the case?

You can't. That's the short and simple answer, you can't. You have to have somebody who's willing to co create with you. It can be something that they wrestle with, but they're going to have to learn how to share their thoughts and feelings with another human being instead of believe and continue to believe that it's not safe to do so. They're going to have to be willing to develop some vulnerability and some empathy. And the good news is that is absolutely something that we can develop. I have to have the desire to do that though. And there's nothing for the interdependent person, or shall we say the person who's probably very well versed in expressing how they feel, being vulnerable, those kinds of things. There's really nothing you can do except for invite the person that you would like to connect with and help them see the rewards of doing that work for not only us, the relationship, but for themselves. And that's about all you can do there. If they're unwilling to do that, there is nothing you're going to be able to do to leverage, coerce, manipulate, enroll all of those things that we attempt to do because we want it so desperately. Unfortunately, we cannot force or control anybody to do work for themselves they're not willing to do. And that's true not only in relationships, but it would be true in all matters of human behavior change. Person themselves has to want it, to desire it, to get benefit from it. And they're the only ones that are going to need to do the work in order to show up differently in the relationship.

The only thing I would say is that it's what the person who's craving interdependence with their partner could do is do a little bit of a self assessment on how they've been asking for that in the relationship. Because it is frustrating when your partner insists on staying avoidant no matter how hard you ask them to please join you in the relationship emotionally. Eventually it becomes probably a situation where you're beating up on them them, you know, even if you probably don't want to admit that to yourself, you're probably belittling them. You know, you're doing all the things that you probably shouldn't do. So something you can do is get some help for yourself. So come work with us and learn how to use the language of love in a productive way. Where it's not about beating up on your partner, but it is asking for what you want, but it's just in a better way. So that is something you can do that doesn't involve you trying to. To wrangle your partner to come join you. You can do it on your own and we'll help you say the things you want to say in a more.

Effective way in your relationship. I totally agree. Like engaging in the race to the bottom when I'm allowing myself to say and do things that I don't even feel good about saying myself in an attempt to and in my desperation to create or enroll this person into engaging with me. Yeah, yeah, there's value in you. It's good for you. And it's okay for you to desire this, but you also have to accept what's being handed back to you, which is if an avo avoidant person is unwilling to engage with you, then you have to accept that they're not ready. It's probably more times than not, I just want you to hear, it's not because they don't love you or want the relationship. It's because they're not willing right now or courageous or have the capacity emotionally to face off with themselves. And we don't realize that that's the most courageous work that we will do is literally face off with me. It's much easier to just keep avoiding it because that's, that's a scary proposition. And so we can't force people to do that. We can only invite them, let them know that we support them, that you believe in them, them that you believe in their ability to do this. And then they are going to need to make the choice. And so in asking, like you said, Brook, and asking in those better ways, that is the something that you can do. And then I would add, get busy remembering and knowing and building your own confidence and sense of self that you, you want them, you desire them, you hope this goes well, but that at the core, you know you're going to be okay if this doesn't go that way. You have a strong sense of self, which is what I call love interest insurance. I know that it's going to be hard and devastating if this doesn't take me where I want to go. I also know inside of myself I'm going to be okay somehow because I have a well developed sense of self. I'm good enough, I'm valued, I appreciate me. So that's important.

What steps can you take when the other party refuses to communicate? You know, my partner is asking for space and they're not talking to me like, what do you do in that situation? It's a very emotionally painful situation, you.

Know, very much so. So, but here's the thing. If you start pushing, coercing, begging, pleading, or even slinging what I call a zinger, you're just going to push them further away. Here is what you can do is instead of thinking that your only answer is to engage in them and to get them to communicate with you, what I would encourage you to do is get busy figuring out what it is you need to do for yourself and start living. Like, start developing aspects inside of yourself that's going to help you feel better. And it's also going to be that Piece of love insurance I was just talking about.

And let me just, let me just stack on that.

You're not go out and like dance with other guys and post pictures on your Instagram.

Yeah, Brooke, you're reading my mind. Yeah. You're not saying, when Stacy says go out and get busy living, I want you all listener to hear listeners or listener to hear. Stacy's not saying go out and create another relationship. Please understand that distinction. It's going out and get busy understanding how you tick.

Yeah. The first thing I would encourage you to do is make a list of all the things that you used to love to do that of sort swept you up into this relationship that little by little you started to let go of and engage in those activities again. Like make a list of them and then begin doing them again. Developing. Maybe it was writing or maybe it was playing a musical instrument or maybe it was spending more time in nature on hikes, et cetera. Whatever it was, go re engage with those things again. That's what I mean when I say get busy living, there is no repair. There's a statement that says, my best way to cope with pain is to get underneath someone.

1.

No, it's not. Don't do that to yourself. It's going to create a lot more drama than it's going to solve. And believe me, it's not going to make your partner pay. It's going to make your partner leave, which is exactly what it is you're trying to not do. If you get pushy instead of patient, you're going to push them away. It's really important for you to understand that. And I understand it's hard. I understand. And then you're. I know the next question is going to be how long do I have to wait? How long do I got to wait?

I just want the listeners to know that Stacy just used that new statement segment. She said, tom, don't get pushy, get patient. Because I was getting a little pushy before we hit the record button here. So that's. She said, oh, I like that. I want to use that. I'm going to use that. Don't get pushy, get patient.

And patience is hard to develop. And you develop patience by doing it.

Spoiler alert for the next couple of questions. We're not suggesting that you simply sit there like a good little perfect girl and wait forever.

Yeah.

Or boy. Or boy.

Yeah. Girl or boy. Wait perfectly forever. By the way, that's not the answer because I'll be able Are like, well, that seems like what you're saying. No, we're not saying that.

It's literally a place where you go about doing the things that you used to do before you acquired or got yourself into this co creation called a relationship. And you're a human being and this would be the best thing for a human to do.

Living together in solitude. How do you navigate a living situation? Like when you're taking space from your partner but you live in the same house, how do you navigate that?

So I find that it's helpful. And this would be true even if somebody was living outside of the house initially. There's going to be what I call a cooling off period. It's a place where, okay, we, somebody's dropped this announcement that I need space and I need separation and there's going to be a cooling off period where everybody just needs to reassemble to this new norm. One person wants, one person doesn't want. And there's that cooling off period. And I want you to understand that's really important because it's going to be in the pause that you get to get clarity with your thoughts and feelings. And then what needs to happen is we need to come back to the the table and we need to come up with an agreement and an I and some clarity around the things that we need to get busy understanding and doing around our relationship. We need to create an agreement with that. So like, when are we going to date? Are we going to talk? How often do we need to improve our communication? What's our sex life like? How do we handle all the myriad of bills and tasks of day to day life? And it gives you a tremendous amount of ease if you create what I call a separation agreement. Because this agreement gives us a roadmap in regards to where it is we need to go as a couple to eventually see if we're making progress or not. What kills us, and this is what we typically do, is we hang out in what I call the land of maybe. And the land of maybe is a place where everybody is spinning and spiraling and doing their avoidant, anxious right mechanism and we don't know if we're making progress. We wonder how long we got to hang out here. We're not quite sure what direction we're going in. And so, so it constantly feels, day in and day out, like I'm still in this place of uncertainty. I'm gonna tell you right now, we, we don't do well in uncertainty. Like our little minds start to spin at warp speed and we start making up a whole bunch of Things that may or may not be true. And then we stack and we build on those as though they are true without being able to vet them out. That's what happens with a huge long void or lack of communication. It's not necessarily avoiding like we think it is, because believe me, those narratives are getting built, built and stacked on even though we're not talking. And that's what's going to drive us into seeing no alternative or way forward is we just simply run out of emotional gas. And that's why most relationships end. So we need a separation agreement. We need to know when we're going to talk. We need to probably practice sharing and communicating with each other. We need to be able to set our problems on the shelf and go and re experience each other in new ways and in new fashion. And then we have a safe place to come back to when we need to process down what's happening, what's working, what's not working. And then we continue to improve and get better at those things step by step by step by step. That's how we create a successful navigation through this very difficult space. Right? Or this land called space, shall we say?

Also, I want to add a caveat to this conversation that when mom too says a separation agreement, that doesn't have to be something you go to your lawyer and create. It can be something that you just write up on Google Docs and print out as a reminder for the both of you. Because something that's super common in this conversation is just, okay, we're just going to take space from each other. And, and my question is, and do what? You know, like, it's not like you're just taking space for three months and dilly dallying and doing what you've been doing, because what's the point of that? You might as well stay together or break up. There needs to be a plan for what you want to occur during this period of space.

What I was going to say is that's why we have a lease option. Contract for love.

Yes, exactly.

It's not legally binding, it's emotionally binding. And that's what you need right now. And this is something that's going to emotionally bind you.

Agreements are going to be really important when you go through this place of space.

And you're probably going to need some help and support with those because like Brooke said, what are we going to do? Most of us come up with the answer regardless of which side of the equation we're on with. Well, I don't know. I don't know what to do. I just know that what we're doing and where we are now feels absolutely gut wrenching. It feels terrible and I don't know what to do. Nobody's ever told me or taught me or mentored me or guided me through this place. And so a lot of us just sit and flounder. We just kind of flop around like a fish out of water. Water. Hoping for the answers and hoping for we're going to figure this out.

And just so everyone is clear, the act of taking space does nothing. I mean, yeah, it gives you maybe a little bit of time to breathe, but just because you took space doesn't mean you're then growing. You have to do the growing and the building of the new skills. That's what is going to fix your relationship inside of the space.

I would just act so it's the first place that we probably go because we literally are. You're going into, into survival mode. So no, we're not butting heads with you on that. But like Brooke had shared, like Stacy shared, what we want to encourage you and inspire you and really impart to you is like, don't just use that space to expect that when you the space is over, things will be different because they won't be different.

They'll be the exact same. Except you're maybe both hurt now because you didn't navigate space correctly or you didn't do anything to fix your relationship in the space.

Well, and I would say is just creating space. And if that's all you do, it's just going to create more space. There's a drifting apart that we all just become accustomed to and that's going probably in the direction you don't want to go.

But you're just learning to live without each other.

Exactly. And as we continue to get better and better and better at that, just understand that's the behavior that we're getting better and better and better at. The experience is becoming more and more familiar to us. The need for space, though, does come about because I need to gain some clarity with my own thoughts, feelings and emotions. And that's what we're going to intrinsically, physically do. When we find our place selves in a place of confusion, uncertainty, chaos, overwhelm. Our natural nature is to just pull within so that we can kind of get a handle on where am I? And that's important. So space is important, but what you do with that space is going to make the difference between us growing together or apart. And this is why. And we kind of intuitively know that there's going to be a lot of people. In fact, you probably even see this in the comments of these videos that we're creating right now is, oh, hey, if they want space, it's all already over. If you continue to just do space, you're right, it is. That's true. If all we're going to do is just do space, yeah, that's probably where you're going to end up. But if we take space, if we take space and put a plan together and create understanding and develop new skills and practice together, we can navigate to a totally different place.

There's space and there's space with a plan. And that's what we're about.

Love that, Love that. Basically.

Because that is what we're about.

Yes.

Because if you just continue in a space place, that's what you're going to get is more space.

Yes, yes. It's going to lead to the end of you.

And. And to be fair, that's probably when people hear about others or themselves. And as soon as that space word comes up, the S word, like, oh, God, we're done. Maybe if you don't have space without a plan, probably fair to say that the majority of you are. Probably.

That's probably exactly right.

That's probably what they've seen happen to other couples, you know.

Yes, absolutely. So it's a fair assumption, the need.

For space, it comes from a place of survival. Need space to get that clarity and understanding with inside of myself. But just like anything, I can hang out there too long, and then all I'm creating is more and more space without understanding how to do it differently. I don't know what I don't know. And so that's why the plan becomes really, really important.

Okay, that leads us nicely into our next question. What should you do? Or how can you deal with your strong emotions during this challenging phase? Mm.

So the emotions, your fears, your insecurities, your doubts, they are all going to flash right now. And I just want you to understand why that is. It's not to be a nemesis to you, but it's to help you understand yourself better and to overcome and address some of those fears and insecurities that addresses or drives, shall we say, that drives your avoidant or anxious behavior. Behavior. And so they're all going to come up. And it feels intense because it is. And it feels overwhelming because it is. But these are the things that we want to not necessarily change out of the gate. They're things that we want to understand about ourselves about what we're making up is true. There's a digestion down of our emotions that we really haven't been taught how to do. And if that's a foreign language to you, then it just highlights what I'm saying. We need to learn how to digest down our emotions and, and accept them and understand them. And then we can start setting about changing them or deciding what it is we want to do to remedy them. But I can't remedy them if I don't even accept them, acknowledge them or understand them. And so many times I find that when, especially when it comes to emotions that are uncomfortable for us to feel, what we tend to do is try and change them, dismiss them, ignore them before we understand them. And that's always going to drive the emotion and the intensity of, of the situation and not resolve it.

And what I'm hearing on our clarity calls from last week's episode is people share with me, Tom, that the intensity of what I'm feeling now is different than I've ever had before.

Yes.

So what, what, where is that coming from?

Well, just because you've got again all the fears and insecurities and self doubt coming up about you, about love, about relationships, about my future, like my brain is on overdrive right now, about what this means, means for right now as well as into my future. And when we start obsessing on that, just in an effort to try and find some sense of safety or support or foundation, that uncertainty drives us almost mad. And so these are places that we've got to dive in and deal with. I've got to address my insecurity. I remember going through this myself. I wondered if I was going to be okay. I couldn't even see tomorrow, let alone the rest of today. And it became a moment by moment stepping person process. What needed to happen was for me to just give myself the space to understand what was coming up for me and where these fears and insecurities come from and what it is I needed to do to remedy them and address them. Then I could set about learning new skills and going in different directions. But to just dismiss them or to try and change them before I had those pieces, it causes me to be stuck. Actually, it causes me to get deeper in the inertia because now I'm trying to bury, avoid, dismiss, dismiss, pretend, live an illusion. And that's not going to help me go forward at all. And yet that's what we'll probably tend to do as a human being before we finally get into such enough pain. That I go, I wave the white flag and go, okay, I'll do whatever I gotta do. I'm to that point. So just know that this is principled. The pain emotionally will continue to increase to such a degree that I'm going to be willing to finally turn and do that facing off or that evaluation inside of myself. And the pain will take it to whatever degree it needs to in order to get my attention. So what happens in these places where somebody says I need space is this is the moment where the pain is like off the chart in an effort to try and get our attention. Because let's be honest, there were probably signs and symptoms of this not being okay for a long period of time. And in our attempt to not address it or kick the can down the road or think because we were married, you were always going to be there for me. It caused me to dismiss them. And if you're being surprised right now, then I would suggest to you to just contemplate on the idea that you were so busy doing what you were doing that you had no idea about what was really going on in your life. And we can do that. Any of us can. We can be so involved in what I'm up to and what I'm doing. We've totally dismissed the other person thinking that they're fine because I'm fine, which is not true. You're still not co creating, which is what a relationship. And so that person's gonna spin off unawares of you until the moment comes where they say, I need space. I can't do this anymore. And you're like, what? This is the greatest relationship ever. I've been on both sides of that equation. I've been the person who thought the relationship was great and I've been the person who felt left behind.

Let's do one more. And then it looks like we're gonna come back next week with another Part two episode.

Sounds good. Hey, may I have one that I've been hearing a lot of that's really hard for people on my clarity calls. I'm in a space situation and my partner, I know they're already he or she is already seeing someone and is driving me crazy. What am I supposed to do? How do I handle that?

That's our greatest fear, isn't it?

Oh, my gosh, yes. So what's up with that? This is Bartley, the relationship expert.

Yep. So the reason why they're reaching out to other people is because it's a coping finding somebody else who's going to tell them all the things that they need to hear is reassuring and validation, validating. It's kind of taking, if you think about it as a measure of being love starved. Right. Let's look at it as like not having my cup filled emotionally, which we're not very good at, knowing how to fill that emotional cup, let alone teaching somebody how to fill it. With me, we are not good at that. So you start to kind of see the setup in the whole outplay of these things. I don't feel like I'm getting it from the relationship that I've been in. I get to a place where I'm exhausted and frustrated. So I say I need space. And then I want to run to somebody who I just happen to bother bump into or has, who has been on the sidelines telling me how beautiful or handsome or strong or smart or intelligent or capable I am. And we are very susceptible to those things. When I've been in a position where I have been in a love starve situation, I. E. Meaning my emotional needs haven't been met for a long time now, that doesn't mean my partner is necessarily doing it wrong. What it means is I am terrible, horrible at number one, disclosing what that is, is, and B, knowing how to teach them to do it for me. It's something that we typically think that because we were once in love and things were great, you should just know how to do for me. And I'm here to tell you that is a bunch of BS it is a thing that you make up in your head that is absolutely not true. And then we ride off into another situation thinking, oh, this person, this person knows how to love me. This person's going to get it right. This person makes me feel good. Yeah, for the moment. But just wait until everybody's shit starts coming, coming up and you're going to find a totally different scenario.

Well, you're going to find yourself back into the situation you left from because nothing's changed.

Yeah. And I just would say so. But the person that hasn't, that's watching their partner, their husband, their wife goes, and they know that. How do I'm hearing just unbelievable pain with people that are on the other side of that. What can they do to lessen their unbelievable unrest? Emotional unrest.

The unfortunate thing is they have to start to let go because there is nothing they can do at this point in time to beg, plead, pressure, coerce. Right. They're just going to be bleeding out on the ground.

And so I would say they didn't do anything Wrong. So realize you did nothing wrong for this to happen. The reason why your partner's needs were not getting met in this very specific situation we've laid out here is because they didn't make them known to you. Because we're just going to go ahead and assume it's the avoidant partner that asked for space and then went and found somebody else. Because they didn't, the avoidant didn't say, this is what I need. Because they're not being vulnerable and they're not telling you what their emotional needs are and so that you have no room to meet them. And then this whole shit show happens and they go find somebody else. But the same thing is going to happen again because the avoidant person didn't do any work to change that behavior inside of themselves.

But, but now in cases I'm referring to, and you know, just going back over this week's call, there are some people that said, tom, look, I, I know I, I, I, I didn't do well. I didn't handle that well. I assumed things. I didn't show up as the best version of myself. So how about in that situation, I'm not dismissing what you said, Brooke, but in this situation, these are people that knew they could have done better. Now they realize it and we all know when you realize it and you think, oh my gosh, I could have done so much better there. And that that person that they weren't demonstrating that to has gone and they know they're seeing someone else. What does that.

Having, they're having regret.

Unbelievable regret. That, that's the person I'm speaking to in this particular. What can they do to bring their own, some repose to them? What would they, what would you suggest?

Same thing. They've got to let go. Okay? And they need to recognize and realize that that's really good news that they're seeing. That sounds terrible to say right now, but it really is because of how we learn as we learn in the contrast of what works and what doesn't work. And now you're starting to see what didn't work in this relationship. And you know what? Yes, you might have to let go of this one, but that doesn't mean you need to stop. That means that, that if you want love like you want all the other things in your life, then you go again when you're ready. And that means that the pain that you feel from this experience and that regret will serve you because you'll be more mindful to not do it again in the future. And so as it is, we are all learning and getting better at love and relationships here. I just want you to see that. Brooke, you're right. It's. It's not that it's somebody's fault fault. It's that we don't know what we don't know. And how were you to know if somebody wasn't disclosing or teaching it to you? And yes, there's probably going to be a part and peace on your side too. Because I've never seen a couple that are going through a situation like this where there wasn't an opportunity for everybody to get better at being who they have the capacity to be.

And also to the people who are in pain because they're regretful that they didn't do the right thing or they're beating themselves up, the next thing you have to do after letting go is what's part of it is to forgive yourself. Yourself. Because carrying around that I've done really stupid things in relationships, so have my parents. And you can't just beat yourself up about that forever. There's no. Nothing good comes from that. What you. Geez, I'm very passionate about this. If you can't tell what the thing you need to do is, forgive yourself so that you can then learn from it and become better.

And that's really, really what I always go back to and encourage our call person I'm speaking to is, look, at the end of the day day, we all make messes. And what you can use from this experience is to just commit to being the very best version of yourself going forward. Because at the end of the day, really that's all Lev can do anyway. Again. And I am not dismissing the pain, but interestingly enough, we can either use it for a place of transformation or a place to. For further degradation. It's really up to us how we want to play the card. But at the end of the day, if that's what you're going to commit to doing, then you know that, yes, I've made some mistakes I could have handled that way way better. But I'm committing to doing that now. And guess what? The track record will be your continued new behavior in doing so. That will be your new track record. That will be your new legacy.

Yeah, that's it. And that's the opportunity. And sometimes it takes a moment for us to. I've seen lots of couples come back around to each other after they've had a chance to grow and transform. And I've also seen couples navigate through this very difficult space and come back better and stronger. And so we've all got to set about doing what I can do inside of my myself. When you think about it, when we're in coping emotionally with our backs against the wall, doing the avoidant side or the anxious side, what I want you to see and understand is that what's really lacking is a relationship with myself. It's that sense of self that I then can use to navigate myself through the inevitable ups and downs of love. And there's nothing that's going to ask you to grow like love will. We will do things and take ourselves places because of the love and relationships that we are attempting to co create that we would never do on our own. In fact, those emotions don't even come up to grow, to transform, to understand and digest. We need to view this as difficult as it is and as an opportunity to become more of who you have the capacity to be. And there's no success without some pain. And then I didn't make up those rules. We need to take it up with whoever is responsible for this place that we live called Earth. But I'm just telling you how it works works. And as Tom said, we can either choose it to use this information and these experiences to make us better and to remember. And there's nothing like pain to be our teacher because we'll remember those long into the future. We'll understand things and remember things that we need to hold on to as we go into the future to improve who it is we have the capacity to be. Or we can use that same pain to kick our asses for a lifetime. And I hope you understand which one we're advocating for you. If by chance you're finding yourself in this space right now because it has the power to do both. If you're feeling the weight of uncertainty right now and you're ready to stop spinning, I want to personally invite you to join us for the love in limbo 30 day roadmap. Our next session begins January 5, 2025 and it's designed to guide you through this critical time with clarity, confidence and community. Now let me tell you, this is not about a quick fix or empty promises. It's about rediscovering you, learning the tools of your relationship that have been missing. And then create a foundation for growth, whether together or apart. Imagine waking up one month from now feeling clearer, stronger and more grounded in yourself. That's what the roadmap is here to help you achieve. Enrollment is now open and we'd love to have you Join us. And so if you're ready. Ready. I invite you to head over to loveandlimboroadmap.com to learn more and secure your spot. Don't wait. This is your chance to take control of your story and create the path forward you deserve. All right, let's have a little bit of fun. We're going to turn a corner here.

I think we all. I need some fun.

Yeah. And this one might surprise you.

Okay.

I came up with a swallow the fun. Because the one thing that I see in couples, especially right now, is that everybody is feeling exceptionally overwhelmed. They're overwhelmed with the myriad of things, things that they have coming at them day in and day out, whether that's kids, cooking, cleaning, etc. We're all begging for just an evening off, aren't we? And I want you to know and understand that we can create that. It's not impossible. We can create this, but somebody's got to give it first. So I'm going to invite you to, this week, give the gift of relaxation to your partner. Just for an evening. You're going to give your partner a quiet space to do whatever it is they want with concierge service. And the concierge service means. Okay, here's my suggestion for concierge service. Number one, you come up with some kind of a way that they can notify you. I recommend some kind of like a little bell. I envision, like this little bell that you can ring, but you could also use a ringtone on your phone just as easily. And I'm going to encourage you to, as simply as you can, write out a menu of services that might look a lot like this. Number one. One ring is for my favorite bag beverage. Two rings is for dinner with ice cream. Three rings is maybe for my robe and my slippers. And four rings is for a back rub. And so this person that you love is given a quiet space. You're going to take care of the kids and the events of the evening while you give them the space to just be by themselves, relax. And they have this opportunity of this menu that they can count on you, that when they ring it, you'll bring the items with the number of rings that have been wrong. Now, I can already hear in your mind, oh, I would like that done for me. I. I don't want to do that for them. Here's the thing I want you to know, number one, you're going to get a lot of pop out of this. Number one, if you give this to your partner, the next time you ask for something, they're going to be all over it. There's this little thing called reciprocity as human beings. But number two, it gives you the opportunity to ask for your turn. I gave it to you. When can we plan this and you can give it back to me? That would be incredible. And do you realize that as a couple in our co creation we could schedule schedule that each of us get an evening off a month or a week and then we can refuel and stay off the overwhelm and we can support and help each other to do that and we can have a little bit of fun by doing it. So instead of resist the idea thinking that you're the one that's more overwhelmed or overworked, I'm sure that's true. But if I give first and give fast, we can both you two start getting the space and the repose that we need. It's just an evening. It's not forever. It's just an evening. So have a little bit of fun with this. And you can add to the menu anything that you know already that your special someone enjoys. Just give it the special number of rings and then be prepared to give them the evening off and ask for your turn as well. The song that I've chosen for this week's episode is I have to give a shout out to Chad. He selected the song and sent it to Tom and suggested that maybe we use it as a featured song for an episode. And I couldn't have come up with one better. So thank you much, so, so much, Chad, for sending this one of our wonderful listeners. Today's song is by Ben Platt. His song is Grow As We Go. And the lyrics to this highlight exactly what it is we've been talking about today. When the song says you say there's so much I don't know. You need to go and find yourself. The day is that you need to be alone. They say that growing only happens on your own. They don't know you and me. I don't think you have to leave. If change is what you need, you can change or right next to me you can. EB and I will flow and we will take it slow. And that is exactly what's available to you. If by chance you're in a place of space and you can put together some agreements and some places where we need to grow and get better as human beings so that we can co create better together. And the song highlights this beautifully. So I encourage you to check it out on the Spotify playlist. Love Shack Live playlist. You can also check it out on our website@stacybartley.com and the video with it.

Is really cool too. I mean it really the answers are spectacular.

That's it for this week's episode. And if by chance you've heard something that has been helpful to you and that you want to send along to somebody that you love and care about, please share this podcast and information. We're doing everything we know how to do to get this information out in the world. And before we wrap up, remember, this space doesn't have to mean the end. It can be a new beginning, something profound both for you and your relationship. Thank you so much for joining us here in the Love Shack. We look forward to seeing you next time.

All right, it's time to leave the Love Shack, but before we part ways, we want you to know our door is always open and we'll leave the porch light on. Ready to welcome you back whenever you need a dose of relationship wisdom. For more resources and tools, Visit us at loveshacklive.com to dive deeper into the topics we've explored and find additional support for your relationship journey. Stay connected by subscribing to our podcast. Thank you for being part of our Love Shack Live community.