#212: How Much Space Is Too Much? How to Avoid Losing Yourself (and Each Other)

You've agreed to give your partner space, but now here you are, alone with your thought. The silence feels heavier by the day, and the questions won't stop in your own mind. Am I helping or hurting by agreeing to this? Have I already lost them? Maybe you're trying to give them the room they've asked for, but the uncertainty is confusing and scary. You're wondering how much space is too much space. Welcome to Love Shack Live, the podcast for those navigating relationship crossroads. If you're facing growing distance, daily conflicts, or an emotional gap that feels impossible to bridge, you're in the right place. Together, we uncover the skills, strategies, and perspectives to rebuild bonds that feel genuine and lasting. I'm Stacey Bartley, your relationship mentor, and here with me is my co host and lover, Tom, and our daughter, Brooke. We've walked along the side of thousands of people like you, helping them find clarity to navigate the challenges and rewrite their relationship stories. And we're here to help you do the same. Today, we're tackling a great question from one of our listeners. How much space is too much space? How do you find balance between honoring someone's need for space and staying connected? By the end of this episode, you'll have the clarity to navigate this delicate dance with intention and confidence. But there's more to this than simply giving space. It's about understanding how to use this time to strengthen, not weaken, the foundation of your relationship.

So.

So let's get started. Hey, thank you for coming. Welcome to the Love Shack. Let's first talk about why space matters, the purpose of space, and how we can utilize this time for something good and something beneficial in your life. Yes, you heard me right. Something good and beneficial. This is a dreaded experience in the relationship realm. And I get it. It's one of the most challenging, heart wrenching, gut wrenching experiences you'll have in your relationship journey. But, you know, as we get afraid, we tend to pull back and we tend to shut down and we tend to brace instead of look at and open ourselves up to the possibilities of what could be instead. So I want you to understand that the reason why space happens, whether we're aware and conscious of it or not, is because there was something that wasn't working. There were principles that were being violated, not in an intentional way, not in a malicious way. We were doing the very best we knew how. But here's the thing. We step into relationships thinking that we're supposed to be good at them, based on what? Like usually come equipped with the programming and the demonstrations that we had from our families of origin, and for many of us, not so great. Absolutely not so great. And yet we think that we're supposed to be good at them. We're supposed to knock it out of the park. Where do you go to learn relationship skills and principles that are foundational, that will absolutely support you in governing through the inevitable difficulties of love and life? Nowhere. There's nowhere I know of except to hear, or maybe we step into some therapy and maybe they'll teach you some relationship skills and principles. We usually reach back for our friends and our family members that could be helpful. But again, who's gone to school to study the principles and skills that govern relationships? That invisible force, that invisible something that is absolutely impacting your life, but nobody can see it taking place until it absolutely comes to a place where one or both of us are in a place where we know things haven't been working all along, but somebody finally pulls the rip cord and says, I can't do this anymore. And in our panic, because we know things haven't been so great, we want to talk them out of it, because that's not what we want. And to be truthful, it's not what they want either. It's just that what was working or not working, shall I say, had become so extreme that emotionally they ran out of gas and couldn't do it anymore. That things needed to be reevaluated and readjusted. Could you imagine if such a thing did not exist, that we would live out our lifetimes in this place and not only was it hard and difficult, but we just hung out there for 40, 50, 60 years? Could you even imagine doing that physically? Could you imagine yourself hanging out in this place with some kind of a very difficult illness that you didn't treat, that you didn't want to look at, you just continue to ignore? Could you even imagine the difficulty that would ensue as a result? And that's why I say it's a good thing. Because it's a sign in the experiences of living that, you know what, there's a lot of good that can come out of this. But we need to know how to look at it, face it, and evaluate it and understand what it is we could do differently. Understanding the skills and principles that absolutely influence this experience in our lives so that we can go in a better direction that will be life giving and life sustaining, which means you could have a wonderful life and relationship 40, 50, 60 years into the future without trying to struggle to eke out yet another moment. And that's why I say it's a good thing. A difficult thing, yes, but a thing that can breathe new life and new possibility and potential into your relationship. And it was probably inevitable because when these things become a problem and then we try and go along with them for as long as we possibly can, we all do that because we don't know any better. What we don't know is what we don't know. We don't want to be the jerk that has to say, this isn't really working for me. Nobody wants to be in that position. But it some point in time I realize I'm not going to make it anyway, and I'm falling apart and I'm flatlining and I can't do this anymore. And so it's kind of like the situation will be forced into having to look at it. It can no longer stay in the dark or in the illusion of it all. And that moment comes when somebody says, I can't do this anymore. So if you're like most of us, we panic, we freak out, we start blaming and pointing fingers when really it's an opportunity to say, yeah, it hasn't been working for me too. Which we would never think of saying, you know what? I've been struggling with this too. I don't know what to do either. I've done the best I can. I know you've done the best that you can. What are we going to do? How do we need to look at this so that we can understand how to do it better and go forward? And that's literally the opportunity. But because of the fear and panic that we often find ourselves mired in, I don't say, yeah, I've really been struggling with this too. And I don't say to you, yeah, I get it, this probably hasn't been working. And what do you think we ought to do? I don't know. Do you know it turns into a conversation of, well, you shoulda. If we rewind the clock, it was the moment when you did this. How could you? Was unthinkable. You should have known better. You've been triggering me for 35 years and I've just never said something because I love you. But now I'm not going to take it anymore. Right. Those are the conversations that's usually boiling out of this place of space, which just highlights really, the end of the day. We've waited too long to say some things that probably should have been said long ago.

So would you say that many of us think it we're just with the wrong person rather than viewing it what you just described as an opportunity to really look within.

Well, I'm going to answer this just because I've seen so many comments on TikTok recently and TikTok and Instagram, mom too, knows the real answer. But I would say the resounding assumption that people make in public, based on the data set that I have, is that people think one of two things. Number one, you're just over it and you want to go cheat, but you want to do it, like, in a way that sort of breaks it to your partner in a deceptive way, but, you know, it can, like, break the ice of that you want this relation to be over. Number two, you're avoidant. The person who's asking for space is avoidant and abusive and evil and didn't have the courage to speak up about the things that weren't working. So they don't deserve to be in a relationship with anyone because if they can't tell you what's really happening, then what's the point in even being in a relationship? And everyone who is a longtime listener, those two things could not be further from the truth. But I would like to challenge any new listeners who are coming in believing those things. Number one, you know, that's okay that you believe those things, because that's kind of the story we tell about space and separation in society. But number two, I would ask you, have you done those things? Have you told your partner every single thing that isn't working for you in your relationship? Have you had the courage to do that? Because let me tell you, it's hard. It's hard to even say one thing that's not working for you. So think about, if you have several, they build up for a while and you're like, what the hell? I don't even know how to approach this.

Well, and here I say this often, but it's like, we don't know what we don't know. And so when we choose to not say some things that are not working for me and talk about them and disclose them, my mind not knowing what it doesn't know. No, he doesn't understand principles, doesn't understand skills, says, oh, it's no big deal. Isn't that the common narrative? Oh, it'll be fine. I'll just. I'll just let it go. It's no big deal. I'm not going to raise a ruckus about it. That's usually the narrative.

I also want to point out one pretty funny thing. That, you know, I would consider us now experts about space and separation, because we've been literally having this conversation now for probably, like, 16 months. That's a long time to be talking to people and gathering hundreds of stories. And we know a lot about this topic, and we know a lot about the dynamics of it. What I think is funny is that everyone in the comment sections who has been asked for space is so there. They would be, like, the victim in this situation. They're like, no, this isn't true. What you're saying isn't true. My partner is just a dick, and they just want to go off and, you know, not have any responsibilities. And all the people who have requested space and are the people that we're talking about in the video say, you've nailed this. I've never felt explained so well. This is exactly why I asked for space. So I would just ask you for a minute to, like, take a pause and say, oh, maybe I have the story that I'm telling wrong. I get that it's challenging the story that we've told around space and separation in society, but that's what needs to happen. Because all the people who have requested space are coming in and saying, yeah, this is why I requested space.

You know, one side of the equation is filling, seen, and finally understood, and the other side is running in fear.

Yeah.

And that's why the reactions that we see in the comments there. And. And I would, if I may say, I've been in this conversation strongly.

Yeah.

You 2013.

Yes. I just mean. I just mean us three, but yes.

Yeah.

I mean, this is what Stacy means if you're not. Depending how long you've been listening. Stacy has a very robust part of our body of work is Stacy sees people individually. And, babe, how many of the people that you see individually are navigating space and separation in some form?

Should I stay or should I go? That's literally the conversation we started our company with. So we have been talking about this for over a decade.

Well, and prior to that, what really inspired me to step into this conversation is I stepped into becoming a divorce mediator. I stepped in because I wanted to actually get comfortable with conflict within my own life. Used to terrify the heck out of me. Funny enough, one way to. One way to. But as a result of it, in working in the divorce mediation field for a while, I could see that there were a handful of clients who would come through the divorce mediation process and then come back for a second round while I was there. And I'd Think, okay, wait a minute. And. And you know, the conversations that they couldn't see were the same conversations I remember having with them in their previous relationship. And that was when I went, we gotta do something about this. Because if we don't know what we don't know, then this pattern is gonna be repeated and repeated. That is just insufferable. Like, that is so not okay that we have all this suffering that happens in the relationship space because we don't know how to navigate the difficulty. And that's really the bottom line. If we think about our relationships and we think about that, something that doesn't work for us, as Brooke already asked you, think about how difficult that is to talk about. Do you have any skills? Like. And the last thing we want to do is bring something up. Especially when I brought it up just a bit ago and it was awful. It was absolutely awful. Our brain goes, note to self, we won't be doing that again. So now we have that topic off limits. And I'll do everything I can to avoid it. And you know, I want you to see the genius in that. The genius is I don't know how to do it differently. So I therefore need to avoid it. That's my only other option. Because I can't do that too many times and be okay. I understand and feel and sense and know that if we go too many rounds of this, we're not going to have a relationship and I'm not going to have a me. So we avoid it. That's brilliant. That really is brilliant when you think about trying to eke out some longevity and a sense of well being. Because the bottom line is I don't know what to do. We don't know how to talk about these things. And yet on the flip side of that, I want you to think about this. Every single relationship you have ever been in or will ever be in, we'll have components of it that do not work. There are going to be things I love about my parents and that drive me crazy about my parents. And they're going to be things I love about my friends, my besties, my peeps. And then there are going to be times they drive me straight up crazy. And there are going to be times where I love my pets. But man, I'll tell you what, some days, but that's true about our lovers too. That's normal. We're going to have things that don't work. And let's be honest, there are things about myself. Some days I feel like I'm knocking out of the park. And I'm saying, stace, you are amazing. And then there are days that I'm like, you are shit show. You are such a. I will tell you if there was anything that Tom and I are really good at, even when our armpits are sweaty and our hands are shaking, we will talk about the tough stuff. But you know what? We've spent a lot of time honing again and again and again and again the skills to bring up those very difficult conversations. And if we are going to be perfectly frank, sometimes in certain situations, we'll give that one a little time before I figure out how I'm going to approach it. I know it needs to be approached, but it's probably not in this moment because if we go there, what's going to come out of my mouth is not going to be very kind.

Well, even the three of us have that same dynamic. Sometimes there are something business wise where one of us knows that we need to have a conversation and we say, no, this isn't the right time, we'll talk about it next time. But we know that maybe if we talk about it right now, we'll raise our voice or say something we don't mean and we don't want to do that.

Well, and I just think that's a part of every single relationship across the board. Like even with myself, right? How many times do you feel resistance to even tell the truth and look within yourself?

A lot.

If you're like most of us, we don't even know maybe how to do that. I'm just constantly reacting to my thoughts and my feelings. So this is why space and separation happens. Because I've tried to do my best to go along with put up with indoor. Those things I didn't think were going to become a big deal, but now they have become a big deal. And then I tried to go along with that for a little while longer and now I've simply run out of emotional gas. I'm flatlined and I can't do it anymore. So space is a sign that says I need to regain some clarity and understanding inside of myself. I don't know how to proceed, but I know I can't continue doing what I'm doing. And I'm sorry that this impacts you and I don't know what else to do. But I do know that I need to do this as a life preserver for myself. So space can be a time and a place that will allow both partners to process emotions and gain reflective perspective within themselves so that we can finally maybe start stepping into the conversations that we've known we've needed to had for a long time, but we've been avoiding because we didn't know how. So we can see this as an opportunity or we can see this as a dastardly, malicious deed that I can't believe you do and I should have known better and I should have never fallen in love with you and I should have never given you my heart. Well, that's just sad. That's a tragic narrative to hold around relationships where if I don't understand skills and principles, which I've probably said about five times now, we're all going to find ourselves in that space inevitably. And the metaphor that I love, that just recently I became aware of is thinking of space like pruning a tree. It can encourage new growth, but if you trim it too much, it can kill it, but it's good for it. And so there's an opportunity there for us to learn how to get it just right. And often we don't even step into that possibility. We don't even take advantage of the opportunity that's being presented to us because we run in fear or we feel misunderstood. Hence the social media comments where one says, oh my gosh, you've said this so well. This is exactly what I'm thinking and feeling. And the ones who go, you're just fill in the blank. This was intentional, malicious. You never did love me, you never did want this. Not true. You wouldn't have stepped in to create a relationship if you didn't see some potential opportunities that the two of you had to co create a future together. Because we don't do that unless we see some of that hope and possibility and potential in our lives and our relationships. We won't mix and mingle. Our finances, our physical wellbeing, our emotional well being, our sense of financial well being, we won't put all of that on the line. If I don't see some potential or possibility with you, that doesn't happen, it'd be too easy to not go there. So when is space then healthy versus unhealthy? Healthy space is intentional and there's some mutual understanding and some clear communication around it. Doesn't happen very often because we don't know how to do it and we don't know how to set it up.

I'm just thinking someone might be saying, well gosh Stacy, how the heck am I going to have clear communication when the person's that my partner, husband, wife, spouse, has requested space and no contact? How Do I have communication with no contact?

Well, that means that we've got to circle back around and I'm going to give you some skills and some tips in this episode to help you with that question. But for now that because we didn't know we needed to do it, we tend to have this conversation just fall apart and then we find ourselves in this no contact place and there is no communication about it. But if you think about what's really happening, that was part of the problem in the first place, wasn't it? That we didn't have any clear communication, that we, we didn't know how to bring the difficult stuff up and we certainly didn't know how to navigate through it, which is part of why we're here in the first place. And so most of us experience unhealthy space which makes us feel ambiguous, a tremendous amount of avoiding, we feel used and we disengage entirely because we don't know what to do. And if I don't know what to do to change the trajectory of where it is we' going, I'll do nothing. That's my next best option. And so the common fears of oh my gosh, they're not coming back, this is completely over, is just that it's coming from a place of fear. And until we can step in to gain some understanding and some clarity, we're going to run with that narrative and then we're going to start stacking on it and finding evidence to support it. And this is the place where, if I could be completely honest, social media is a terrible, terrible place to go for this conversation. It's going to create a nightmare for those of you who are going through space. And so if I could suggest anything, don't go there to see comments and stories about people navigating space and separation because it's not talking about the possibility, it's talking about the fear mongering that's happening because everybody's running in a fearful place because they don't know what to do.

One of the questions or statements that I understand why people are saying it and it makes a lot of sense in the vacuum of social media where you can only speak in, in short comments is well, why can't they do this healing inside of the relationship with me? If they really loved me, then why can't they do all of this growing and processing their emotions? Why can't they just stay here and do it here? And if they did really love me.

Then they would, yeah, let's just break that apart because I Had nothing to do with how much they loved you and everything to do with. The problem is everybody waited too long because nobody knew how to address the things that weren't working. We can all relate, can't we, to a place where I'm overstimulated emotionally, physically, mentally, you know, in so many ways. And that is just a place where it's real. We run out of emotional gas. So I've waited too long. I've waited too long to address these things and maybe I've tried and then I avoided them. I could have done that in the relationship if we would have addressed it early, earlier, but now we're long past that point and I just need some clarity and some space to figure out my own place in space. Because the more chaos I have reeling internally as a human being, the less I can tolerate around me. Have you not had days when you were such a hot friggin mess that you couldn't tolerate anything or anyone? Somebody's breathing is enough to send you over the edge in that place in space. I'm not gonna respond so well.

It reminds me of the feeling of when you are just at your edge and then you walk past a door and your belt loop gets caught on the door handle and it just makes you want to sob because it's just so overstimulating, you know?

Yeah, I mean I often share with people, you know, on my clarity calls at some point in time. It's self preservation, man. The human experience is like, I gotta take care of me first. And so you have to understand this is simply a capacity issue. There is no capacity left. Whomever asks for space really is saying, look, if I don't do something, this is going to be really bad. The only option I have available to me right now is I need space. So it's self preservation. It's no different than any other life threatening. This really is on the emotional side of things. You're spent. That's really it. You know, that takes a lot of courage to be fair. I'm not saying it's not hard, as heck it is. But at the end of the day we're all going to have to. What do they tell you in the airplane? Who do you put the oxygen mask on first?

In a lot of these relationships they have been putting on their partner's mask first for so long that no one realizes that that's what's happening. And then, you know, they think it's what they're supposed to do. Their partner just expects it. Not because they ask, but that's that's how it's been set up for so long. And so when the space is requested, it can be so jarring because it's like, what do you mean? Everything was great. You were so supportive and so wonderful. Because that's what they were used to. And it's not because either one is a bad person. It's just such a stark contrast from how it was before. But one of the partners was literally dying.

Yeah. Slowly. And didn't know how to address it. I didn't know how to speak up, didn't know how to address the part that didn't work. And now I can't stay in the environment with which I have all of this overwhelm and all of this stimulation. I have to just find myself a quiet place, you know, it's. It's a place where we all go in many places and spaces of our lives. Sometimes I just need to rest and go to sleep. I can't take on anymore. I'm done. I've spent for the day, had a couple of those recently. So it's inevitable if we don't really understand the human journey and how it is we function emotionally as well as physically. And a lot of us don't have a lot of working acumen in regards to how we function emotionally. We discount so many things in that place in space simply because it's invisible but nonetheless very real and definitely has impact on ourselves and on our relationships. So I reassure you that the process of giving space is about creating clarity for both partners and not feeling like you've got to step in to control something. It's a place of reevaluation, of recalculation, of exploring and learning things that don't work and how we could do it better telling the truth about those things. And if we'll do that, there's a lot of potential and new possibility that can come out of that. You're going to learn so much that on the backside. I can't tell you how many of our people or individuals are so grateful for the moment and acknowledge their partners for the courageous act of asking for space. Because as it unfolds it into a new place, it was life giving to everybody.

Well, and if you could take a step back for a second, like one of the comments. I know I've mentioned this. One of our past episodes where a person who watched one of our really popular clips on TikTok said, wow, when you phrase it in the way you just did, you can almost feel proud of the person for asking space you know, because it was such a contrast to their past behavior patterns for not asking for what they needed for so long. And then when it got bad enough, they finally realized they had to. So if you could, could just take a step back, if you've been requested space and you're feeling betrayed and hurt and like, God, this sucks. Well, maybe you've been in a relationship with someone for a long time and you've been begging them to tell you how they feel. And then finally they said, I feel like I need space. Well, of course that's not what you wanted to hear, but it is them telling you how they feel. You can look at it as like a tiny, small win that, okay, they finally stood up for something. They finally advocated for themselves. It wasn't in a way that feels good to me, but at least they're coming to the table and putting themselves out there. Especially for an avoidant person, it's very hard for them to do that. And even though it's in a way that you don't want, they still are doing the thing that you've asked them to do.

Well, and we don't know how to do this, and I'll be the first to admit that we don't set space and separation up in a feel good way. It never feels good. It's not in a nurturing way. We don't talk about clarity. We don't talk about the good benefits that could come out of it. In fact, we barely want to hear those words if you were listening right now and go, oh, hell, that's it, I'm done. Well, you might want to pause for just another moment or two and listen to, to what we're saying, because if we can't see the potential in it, then you're never going to experience it. It's kind of like that adage of, if you believe you're right, well, then you're right, because you're not going to explore anything different. And we're suggesting to you that this can be a very different experience. Space and separation can absolutely be set up in a way that helps and supports us in getting better collectively and individually, which is what it's asking you to do in the first place. So what is a sign of giving too little space? Well, too little space is probably what we do often. I'm constantly texting my partner. I'm trying to force a conversation. I'm looking at all the tools I got from, you know, belongings to kids, to finances, to in laws, to friends, to engage with them, to force a Gathering. I'm pulling out all the stops here. I'm sending you new songs that I'm listening to in the middle of the night. And I'm really just trying to overanalyze and I'm seeking reassurance. And I do this often. Very, very often, actually. And too soon. And I want you to see that somebody who's asked for space that is receiving this kind of information, whether they can articulate it like I just have or not, knows what's happening. They know that there is a panic happening on the other side. They know that you are pulling out all the stops, trying to connect with them, trying to obligate them, trying to force them. They probably wouldn't say those things, but that's kind of how it feels, which causes them to pull away even more. Remember, they don't need space because of you. They need space because of their own internal emotional chaos. And all that's happening is we're adding on that. So intuitively they're going to go, oh, please, just stop. I can't take that on right now. Right. Kind of like Brooks analogy of like you're at the end of your rope and then you get hung up on the door and then you just have a meltdown. And by the way, asking for space is. Is heartbreaking for the person who's asking for it too. You have no idea the emotional lamenting and chaos and fear that they've had to trudge through in order to say that. Now, I'm not exonerating them or putting it on a pedestal. Quite the contrary. I'm just saying appreciate. They've walked a lot of journeys in an emotionally difficult place to even muster up the courage to say they need space. And now I've got it and I'm trying to figure some stuff out and I'm still spiraling. And now I'm getting bombarded by a whole bunch of stuff that I'm not in a place to even know what to do with. So guess what I'm going to do? I'm going to take the safe option because I don't know how to do it differently. And unfortunately, the conversations that we need to be having are still not being had. There's no clarity. Everybody's dealing on assumptions and expectations and this creates an insufferable place that's unnecessary.

And is it fair to say that kind of the common narrative out there seems to pile on the person that has been the request of space and is a little bit more understanding of the recipient is that probably Brooke would You say in our comments, that's pretty consistent.

Yes. Also, the person who has asked for space, then they go off. And then the person who has requested for space feels like they need to monitor every single thing they're doing inside of the space to make sure that they're using the space correctly. And so that becomes another reason why they feel like they have permission to reach out when they really shouldn't be, you know, so they're like, have you scheduled an appointment with your therapist like you said you were going to? Are you reading the book that I suggested you read all of these things? I know exactly why they're doing it, but they don't understand why that can push the person even further away.

We don't realize in a desire to love someone that the only way I can unwind the internal chaos that's happening within me is by sorting it through for myself. And there's no replacement for that. So, as Brooke said, you can start to understand why it is, you know, hey, I need you to read this book. Book. Hey, I need you to, you know, check out this person, check out this program, check out this thing.

I need you to listen to Love Shack live.

Yeah. Yes. And thank you to those of you who are forwarding that. But I also want you to see and understand it's best to ask permission if that's something that they want before you just send it, because it just adds to the overwhelm. It's kind of like being hooked on the doorknob when I'm already at my wits end. And I'm sure there are a lot of people who have asked for space as they receive that text message with, hey, I just read this book. You need to root it too. After all, you're working on yourself. Hey, when. When is. I booked you 17 therapy appointments. Hey, they're gonna have a meltdown and cry, or they're gonna get aggressive and lash out. And that's why, look, I have to sit and figure some things out for myself, and then I will be ready to talk, but they're not in a place where they can actually articulate, put those things into words. So they're in a tremendous amount of overwhelm, and they've taken a tremendous amount of time to muster up the courage to actually have the courage conversation. Now, do they act out and do some shit they shouldn't be doing in their overwhelm to cope? Absolutely, which is why it can be so difficult. These are very difficult places on both sides for very similar reasons that we act out differently. Right. The person that's mired in their own conflict and heartbreak is reaching out and sending books and scheduling therapy appointments and stepping into this victim, you know, malicious narrative, while the person who's wanting some space and needs to sort through some things for themselves is probably drinking a lot more than they ever had. They might be having emotional affairs and doing it in secret. They might be doing all kinds of crazy things to just try and cope because we don't know where to look for our answers. So everybody, again, is going back to doing the very best they know how. And it can be really ugly and really shitty.

Let's say you are taking space separately, okay? So maybe your partner got an Airbnb or an apartment for a couple of years of weeks while you're testing things out. Even if you're not talking, it can feel like so much pressure is being put on the person who asked for space to use this time in the perfect way and do all the things we're saying. You know, get the therapy, read the books, make the changes, identify the behavior patterns that need to change, identify exactly what they need to ask for to make the relationship repairs. Do you know that it is literally impossible to perform under those kind of circumstances? It's impossible to do all of those things when you feel the weight of the world and like, the future of your relationship is weighing on your shoulders because you asked for this and now you're in it and you don't know what to do because you just feel so much pressure from everyone and everything.

We could create instead of all of this chaos on both sides that we've been highlighting here in the conversation, what if there was a better way? And what if we could set up space, acknowledge the need for space? If one of us needs space, then we probably ought to explore what it looks like. Hard conversation. But, you know, that conversation is hard because it's been put off for so long and now it's happening. It's been kind of forced upon us. What if we could approach space with a plan? What if we could create intentional connection? What if we could create agreements for this place and space so that we could step out of the expectations, the assumptions of who's doing what, and we could actually create some agreements and a parameter about how we're going to do this and set it up for us as a win so that we actually have some things that we can work on and some skills that we can build and some things that we can explore and understand so we're actually improving and understanding ourselves and our Relationship along the way.

Is that possible?

It is possible. And we can do this by stepping into the conversation and discussing, first of all, what space means. And when somebody says, I need space, okay, great. Are you moving out or are you moving into another place in the house? Or is this. You're just telling me that you need to take some space in our relationship to sort some things out for yourself. Instead of feeling threatened by that, which is very common of us, we can say, this is really hard for me. I'm not quite sure how to do this. Let's get some help from people who know and have done this before, personally and collectively. Let's step into a better conversation and see what's possible there. Let's explore what this all means for you and how can I support you. And I can explore how it is you can support me so that we can put this together in a life giving way to the very best of our ability.

Yeah. And I think this particular place where we talk about space with a plan, I think many of us go to, oh, my gosh, well, then that. That's not gonna do anything because we're all freaked out and we need to just kind of like, chill out. And I like to say these are just some very, very baseline agreements about how life is going to continue. Because as much as we like to think that life is not going to continue, when this difficult place is entered in your relationship, some persons asked for space. So sometimes you're in a different physical place. We also work with people that are. They're experiencing space within the same physical environment. But whatever the case may be, life is going to continue. So the more moving parts you have, such as if you have children or maybe share a business together, whatever it may be, it's really going to be helpful for everybody if we have some baseline agreements how these. These just basic factors in life are going to continue. That's really all we want you to focus on here. This is not like the rest of your life type. These are just like, who's going to handle the finances and the kid and the dog and getting the children to school? Just some really important things. But oftentimes we just check out because again, we're spent. But that's just going to add pressure really fast.

I just want to say that space without a plan does nothing. If you don't have a plan and your plan is simply just to be apart from your partner when you come back, everything is going to be exactly the same. And then the situation that created the need for space in the first place is just going to happen again just like a cycle. So that is absolutely not what you want to do.

Well, and even to stack on that if I may, is if we don't have a plan, you know, what we're going to do as human beings is we're going to assume we're going to expect certain things. It sets us up for an insufferable. Like you are adding so much emotional drama and suffering to the mix if you're just gonna hang out here and bump along because there are going to be so many disappointments and so many heartbreaks and then when we don't have answers, we're gonna go ahead and fill in the narrative with whatever my nightmare is. So if my worst possible thing that I can imagine is that you don't love me and you don't want this, then that's what it's going to become and it just creates more suffering when the reality is that means we need to have a conversation to vet these things out and to see if that's really indeed the truth. I hope that you see that having some agreements actually helps us create a place where we know what to expect and we don't have to step into these assumptions or expectations that nobody knows about, that we can lay all these parts and pieces out on the table and we can actually create some loose agreement that will constantly be re examined as we move through this place in space. So things like do we maintain contact or go no contact and if so, for how long? Like that needs to be an agreement. Well, let's go for two weeks and see how I'm doing. And then you know what I'm saying that I need two more. Okay, great. We have to kind of work with this on both sides. It's really hard for me when you go no contact. So if I could just ask for this, that would really help me endure this or work with this. There has to be a two way conversation ideally.

So let's say someone that's listening right now, they said they're like in 10 days of no contact, you know, and maybe there's been no other than the person says I just need no contact, but there's no been specified period of time. How might the, the receiver of that step in and you know, get some kind of a baseline agreement of like how long is this no contact going for? Because we hear this question a lot.

Yeah, I would send a message and it would be something like this, this. I'm wanting to honor our no contact agreement. And what I'd like to ask you is if you could let me know when you anticipate this ending, when we can kind of explore coming back around as to when it is. We would have some contact to explore, some things that we probably would like to talk about.

I'm going to continue to play devil's advocate because we hear this all the time. You know what the answer is? I don't know.

Well, if you had to guess, it would really help me honor your request for space. Without it, I'm probably not going to do so well. And I know this isn't about me. However, if we could just have a date when we're going to come back around and revisit the conversation about where we go next so that I'm just not hung out here forever and always wondering what the next step is. It would really help me out. Would you be willing to give that to me if I was in a place of unknown? I would continue to drive for that, maybe two or three rounds. And then I would say something like this, you know what, if you're not in a place where you can give me a date, unfortunately, I'm going to have to come up with one on my own, which means on this date, I'm not going to be able to continue to just wait. I can't wait forever. That would compromise my own sense of well being. And so please, if you would let me know a date where we could come back around and talk about how long we're going to go. No contact. Otherwise I'm going to need to declare the date on my own. And that gives you a place where, if they won't give you one, I create one for myself, for my own sense of stability and well being. But at some point in time, if you're just going to go into no man's land and avoid the conversation, that I'm going to be forced to make the call. And I need to make the call for my own sense of well being.

No, I like that. And you know, this is again, listener, we know this is very, very difficult because as Brook shared, we've been in this space very, very intensely for over a year and a half specific to this conversation experience. And so I'm just sharing questions with you listeners about what we hear and get asked, well cohorts and our roadmap experience all the time.

And it reminds me of what Mason said on our episodes two podcasts ago. He said, you know, even when you're an avoidant and you are feeling like you need space, it's important to Remember how your space is going to make your partner feel like, how are my choices of needing space going to affect my partner who's the one waiting for me? You can take space with kindness too. So if they're asking for these check ins, even if it's not really your ideal version of space, if it would make them not be spiraling and anxiety and obsessive and all of these things, then do the freaking check in, man. You can come to an agreement about they're not going to talk about the relationship so that you can both stand on a solid ground as you possibly can during this time of confusion and uncertainty.

Well, here's the thing that we often forget. If you're going to step into a place of space and separation, then you are still in a process of co creation with someone else. And what you just said, be mindful of that. If you don't want to co create anymore, then fine, say that. But that's not what space and separation is. Space and separation says, I don't know where I'm at. I don't know what to do. I don't want to let go yet of our relationship, but I do need to take some time and figure some things out for myself. Great, that's what space and separation is for. But space and separation is not for you knowing you want to leave. You just don't want to say so. I would say if that's the case, then say so because that's going to be the easiest way through the heartache. Because you just set yourself up and your partner that you have been co creating with and that you say you care about because you don't want to let go. You're setting everybody up for far more suffering than is necessary. So say you need to let go and I need to be done with this. Be clear, take the step then if that's what you need. I would say 99.9% of couples don't know that that's what they want. They just don't know what to do instead. So I would say then do an intentional place of space and separation so that you can be clear when you're making a choice and a decision that's going to impact the remainder of your life. So like this will have impact.

So I, if I hear it correctly, then so we certainly advocate and coach and mentor. So if you're not sure if you want to stay or go, then yes, space and separation is a good next step. Fully explore what's possible. Is it possible to transform this into a 2.0. Rather than having that regret of not knowing. This is the whole point of this is to really know. Get what Stacy calls that internal clunk. And you're not really going to know that to be fair, because you've probably never gone through a process like this. So rather than just react, no, this must be the wrong person. I just got to find the right person. That's not the case always. Now do sometimes people get to the end of this journey and realize, no, it's not going to work out. Yeah, but then you're not going to have regret, especially if you have children involved. The relationship won't end. It will simply change. We hope for the love of God, because you have children that you want to effectively co parent. This is huge because we always say breakup is not hard on children. Parents are hard on children's. Their behavior sucks.

Just because we don't know what else to do. We're all coping and running in fear.

And your children are going to be asked Brooke. I did it in a pretty good way with Brooke's mom and they were still affected. Brooke was, was in her 20s.

Yep.

I wouldn't say I feel like it's a huge wound now, but at the time it felt like my childhood thing was being broken apart and it wasn't going to exist anymore. And it made it much easier for me and my brother to go through it because my parents acted with emotional maturity, you know, and they, they made sure to keep us out of the decisions that were being made between the two of them as much as possible. And that was great.

Great.

You know, because the kids really shouldn't be involved in what the parents are going to do about their marriage and stuff. And I think sometimes the lines get blurry, especially when the kids are adults. They can be used as sounding boards and mentors. I'm very grateful that Dustin and I didn't have to go through that.

So I want you to see that space is necessary when we don't know what else to do. And it's a time where we can sort through things, learn some new skills and one of two things is going to happen. We're either going to go, wow, I didn't know that we could do this or it could be that good. Let's go again. Let's do some more. This is, this is great. I now see and understand some things I didn't see and understand. And now I know how to do some things I didn't know how to do. Or you're going to learn to do those things that you're going to need to take with you anyway, and we're going to practice and use them here. And then I'm going to say, I understand why we can't go forward. And it's going to present the opportunity for you to not have so much anger and hurt and resentment. Right. And that is such a gift to yourselves, to each other and to your families. So it's a time and a place where, if we set it up, we need to clarify, because if we don't, it's going to add to the confusion instead of add some clarity. It's unnecessary suffering. If we just kind of bump along in this place of space and separation and not have some kind of a plan to it. It's inevitable that there is going to be a tremendous amount of heartbreak and heartache around that. So you want to have conversations around, how often do we check in? Do we still date? Do we have sex? Are we dating other people? Yes. Some big conversations. But are important conversations so that we're all on the same page. I can't tell you how many times somebody says, well, of course I'm dating. We're separated. Well, one person thought that that was okay in the expectation. One person didn't because we never had a conversation about it. You know how much heartbreak that creates, how much disappointment that creates. So let's just be honest about it, and let's not make agreements between us that we don't intend to keep. And then there's all the logistics. How are we going to spend the money? How about the kids? How about the household chores and maintenance on the family home? Am I going to get a place? Are you going to get a place? Are we going to get a place separately? Are we going to get a place that we rotate? Are you just going to take a bedroom in the basement or one of our rentals? Or it could go so many different places or an Airbnb. We need to talk about these things, and then we need to focus on what it is we can control and what it is we can't. So this is an opportunity for us to focus on our personal growth and learn new tools. This is the opportunity because as you do and you can make some sense of your own experience, then you can bring that to the table and have a conversation with your partner about your experience. And you can be open because you have clarity within yourself to understanding and hearing their experience as well. It's important. This is why we say this is an opportunity. But so quickly it can turn into a tragedy if we don't understand how to navigate this in a good way. So in the importance of honoring those agreements once you uncover them for yourself is still being involved and intentional with yes, some thought and some kindness to how what it is I'm doing impacts the other because you're still in a place of co creation. So it's time for you, I hope, to think for yourself about this place of space and separation and if you're in it, that I'm going to highly encourage you to invite your partner to brainstorm some clarity and some agreements around what it is you're currently doing. And just let it begin from a place of here's what I think would really help me. What would help you so that we can create some agreements that will be more supportive in this place, the space and separation, and yet we're still co creating with each other. It's important that you focus more on yourself than what your partner's doing or not doing and making assessments about that because everything that you're making up up may or may not be true. And unless we have the conversations and the ability to check in and vet those out, it would be best for us to not go there at all and to focus on the one thing that I can understand, which is me, which is what's happening in me, and then ask for those things that I might need that would help me navigate this space and separation better. This is also a great time to step into therapy programs that help me understand myself, self journaling all the things that help me really do a deep dive internally. Because until I can translate my thoughts, feelings and emotions into a language that I can understand, we're kind of dead in the water. There's no way that we're going to be able to create a conversation for understanding or clarity or new agreements until each person has an understanding of what's happening inside of themselves. So I hope in our conversation today you can see that the goal of space is exploration, learning and understanding, not perfection of yourself and your partner. It's important that you focus on what's within your control. An unhealthy space fosters unnecessary suffering for everyone because we're all running from this place of having our own expectations and assumptions, but nobody's talking about them. So it's inevitable that there's going to be disappointment, a sense of betrayal and broken feelings and understandings. Yet again, we don't need more of that. And if I could strongly encourage you to use this time for personal understanding and growth, that's where I would point you. Because that's what you have available right now to you. I encourage you to set your space in place to a place of self focus and not what is my partner doing or not doing and what does that mean? What am I doing? And not doing and what does that mean? Is a much easier place to navigate from. And then like I've already said to open up the conversation to saying I'd like to explore some agreements with you. Would you be open to that too? I think it would really help us during this very difficult and challenging time. Okay, that seems like a lot. I know that's a, that's a deep, hard, helpful, hopefully conversation that steps us into places and spaces that we don't necessarily tread. It's almost like a taboo subject to talk about how to navigate space and separation, but such an important one. It could literally be the difference of creating a 2.0 or 3.0 and the destruction and demise of everything and everyone. It's that important. So if by chance you find that you need some helpful tools in this place and space, I've got a couple to offer you. The first is get our free separation survival kit. It'll help you start setting up some of the things that we've talked about in this podcast episode. And I'm also excited to tell you that we now have a self paced 30 day roadmap that you can jump into that is personal and private. We facilitate this live three to four times a year. We're just, we're in the middle of one right now as we're recording this podcast. It is a life changing experience where we facilitate this live and help you navigate through this 30 days at a time. But we also understand that because it comes here and then it's gone. We wanted to have something that we could offer you when you needed it most without having to wait for it. And so we've now created and have just recently released the self paced version of this roadmap which is still incredibly impactful and powerful and life changing. And yes, you have the ability to ask questions, questions with us and get support, but it's a self paced journey that you can do privately too. So take advantage of it. That will absolutely help you navigate this challenging time and help you do all of the things that we've just talked about in this episode. My closing thought that I hope you take away from this, that I want you to remember is that space is not the enemy and your partner is certainly not the enemy. It's happening because there are things that haven't been working and have been misunderstood in your relationship. It's really an opportunity when handled with intention and care, that has the potential to be a powerful tool for healing and reconnection with yourself and with somebody that you love. So set it up that way. Take advantage of it. And I know you're gonna have to step out on faith and trust us on this one. But you know what? We know that we are in a good position to be saying these things. Things if you're in a place to let us help you and support you with it, let's step into some fun. Turn a corner here. And my follow the fun today has got to be inviting you to reflect on your own needs and possible agreements in this place and space of separation. Like, what would they be? Could you articulate them? And if not, then spend some time with yourself and just brainstorm a whole bunch of them. What would you need that would help you in this place in space? And what would be some possible agreements that you would like to lay on the table to entertain with your partner? And of course, you know what the next step is, right? Once I have the clarity there, it's time to lay them on the table and see what's possible. But know what they are for yourself. First, our song for this week. It's a Teddy swim song. He has a song, are you even for real? And in the lyrics he sings, you're beautiful, you're spiritual. I just want you to know I really miss you. Are you even real? Are you even a thing? Because I'm making it up that you are. Isn't that how it feels? We start to question so many things, like, did we even have this experience? Was this relationship that we had and how we came together, was that even real? Or was that a dream and this nightmare that I'm in? Is this even real? Or is this even possible to get through? And that just really struck me. Is this even real, I think is such a part of the conversation that we've had with you today. You can listen to this week's song along with our entire playlist by going to our website podcast page. Or you can search us up on Spotify lovecheck Live playlist and hear all the songs that we've ever suggested or shared with you, going all the way back. And thank you so much finally for spending some time with us today. We really appreciate you, our listener. And gosh, thank you so much for sharing your podcast with others that you know would find it helpful. And also, if you have any questions or comments about this or any episode that we've ever done, please don't hesitate to reach out to us. We love hearing from our listeners. And if I remind you, today's conversation was because of a listener who just simply asked a question that we were happy and honored to answer. So have a wonderful week. We look forward to being back here with you next time. Thanks for listening to Love Shack Live. Bye Bye for now. All right, it's time to leave the Love Shack. But before we part ways, we want you to know our door is always.

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