#218: Want to Save Your Relationship? Change the Questions You’re Asking (with Topaz Adizes)

Have you ever sat beside the person you love, feeling the weight of silence between you, not because you don't care, but because you don't know how to bridge the growing distance? Have your conversations begun to feel the same well worn loop, exhausting rather than energizing, leaving you wondering how to break free from the pattern that seems to be pulling you further apart? Do you long for deeper, richer connection, but feel uncertain about how to create it? You sense that something more is possible, yet you can't quite grasp what would bring you closer. Or perhaps you fear that opening up on your side, essentially becoming more vulnerable, might push your partner away rather than draw them in. If you found yourself questioning the meaning of intimacy, what is it truly? And how does it shape your life? And how do we nurture it? And whether the risk of reaching for it is even worth it, I want you to know that you're not alone. The path back to connection isn't always clear, but it is possible. And it starts with the courage to explore, to ask, and to try again. Welcome to Love Shack Live, the podcast for people at a relationship crossroads where daily conflicts, emotional distance and uncertainty don't mean the end, but offer us a chance to explore something new. I'm Stacey Bartley, a relationship mentor who spent past decade helping people navigate the hardest moments of love. And I'm here with my co host and lover Tom and our daughter Brooke. Also joining us in this conversation today is a master of human connection, Topaz A. Diaz. For the last 10 years, Topaz has been on a mission to uncover the essence of human connection through the Emmy award winning project the. And in his work he hasn't just observed conversations, he has crafted them. He has created the space where transformative dialogue can unfold. He has designed the questions that invite people into deeper understanding and ultimately help thousands of people across gender, social, economic and cultural spectrums connect in profound ways. Through thousands of hours of watching, listening and studying these conversations, Topaz has discovered something undeniable. We all crave connection, whether we realize it or not. He has seen firsthand how the right questions can shift perspectives and how deeply we struggle with vulnerability and perhaps most important, the profound rewards that come when we allow ourselves to truly be sane. He shares that each relationship has a space for between a unique fertile ground that if nurtured, can fuel growth, deepen intimacy, and remind us of what it truly means to be alive. So today we have the incredible opportunity to hear from someone who has dedicated his life to helping people bridge the gap between themselves and others, unlocking the Full potential of human connection. Hey, thank you for coming. Welcome to the Love Shack. Topaz, welcome to Love Shack Live. It is so great to have you here with us again.

Damn, Stacy, I had goosebumps with that intro. My gosh. Thank you for having me. Get back again, guys. Good to see everybody. Thanks for having me back.

I thought we would start with the question of how did you discover that you were passionate about creating intimate conversations between humans?

What?

Where does that come from?

Well, two things. Where does it come from and how did I discover I was passionate about it? Where did it come from? Comes from like the divorce as a four year old and seeing that, like the lack of intimacy and connection created a pain which turned into a hunger for intimacy. And then what did I discover? I really dug it was in the last. And we're now starting our 12th year of this project. And probably, I mean, I've always enjoyed it. And I think maybe in year two or three, when I'm filming in Amsterdam, this big warehouse, me and my team, I kind of had this out of body experience for a moment where I kind of saw all of us in this room, there was three of us on the cameras and two people having a conversation in a huge warehouse. And it was kind of evening, for an hour and a half, they were talking in Dutch. We had no idea what they were talking about because we would later translate it. And I said, wow, this is kind of weird. This is kind of weird. This is what is happening here. This is like a humans being humans. Because the three of us on the cameras, we had no idea what they were saying in Dutch. It's just like. And after two days, three days of just, you know, listening to couple after couple after pair after pair speaking in Dutch, it becomes like this otherworldly. So maybe that's what led to this alibar experience. Wow. This is just humans being humans. And why do I enjoy it so much? Isn't that weird? I don't even understand what these people are talking about. And I'm enjoying this. And yeah, I think it's probably why I love. I mean, I spent a lot of time watching soccer because I think it's an interesting sport. For me, I played it. But I think the sport I love most, which I didn't do much of, was crew rowing. And I did it one year when I was at Oxford and I loved it because no one is really seeing each other, but you're all rowing in harmony and in this rhythm and you have faith that they're trying as hard as you are. And you have the faith that you're not going to let them down. You have the conviction that you won't let them down and the faith that they're trying as hard as you are. And I love that. And I don't think many people see crew like that, but I did. And I realized I loved it. Not because we're on a boat at five in the morning, rowing on a beautiful river. No, it's because we're all invested. And I believe they're as invested as I am. And that's what I love. And I think whenever I see a haka from Aotearoa, New Zealand, I cry. I get goosebumps. Why? Because people are expressing themselves in a raw, real way. And there's something about that that I feel is inspiring. And I love.

I love the way Topaz that you described crew, because I don't think there's a lot of times in life where we experience that, where we know that we're working as hard as we can and that we can trust everyone around us to be doing the same thing.

Yep. And I think it's a beautiful thing because I think that's where you sense humanity. Like, I don't think humanity is in us. I don't think humanity is in us. I think it exists between us.

Yeah.

So the question is, how do you cultivate the space between. How do you cultivate humanity? And that's what I think we don't have. When I spoke to you last, which was about over a year ago, I've done 100 podcasts since then. In all that, I've learned so much. I'm already writing the next book because I'm seeing where is the value here in the reactions and conversations. And it's like, okay, yeah, humanity between us. Great. I love it when we're connected. Great. How do you do it? Kumbaya, Light a candle. How do we do it? Well, you know what? And I'm like, I'll tell you how to do it. I can tell you how to do it. You create the space. What does that mean? This is what you did. Here's how you have well constructed questions. You do these things, which reinforced the space. And I realized in the last year that that's how you do it. And what has been obvious to me, I don't know why, but it has been obvious to me that I've always been humble about. Because it was obvious why I'm going to talk about it. I realized, oh, what's obvious to me and not to others? That's where my value is and I need to offer that. And so that's kind of been what I've been learning this last year.

No, it's incredible where I went and what I see comes up for me in the work when we talk about the space between is I think the reason why I love working with couples and famil family so much is because it is kind of like now that you're saying that a lot like being in a boat and we're all trying to go somewhere and how quickly it turns into a conversation that somebody's not rowing or doing their part, somebody is not adhering to doing it together. And then we all start banging around on what that should be and then we fight about it and then the next thing you know, we've dumped the boat without realizing and recognizing. There is one space in the human experience that will be the most emotional experience you've ever had, which is a relationship with somebody you care about or people that you love and care about. It's the most relational, intense moment we have. Number two is that we approach this space with truly doing the best we know how. Like, we are bringing everything we have to the conversation and we want it to go well. We start out so intent on it's gotta go well. We bring our best stuff and our best skills and our best clothes and our. Our best experiences and we're just like, they're going to knock this out of the park. I don't see people collaborate and co create life together that go, you know what? I'm really going to screw you over. That's my goal here. I'm going to get you until it goes bad. Until it goes bad?

Yeah.

Yeah, you're going to say something about that.

When you say we, you and Tom, for instance. Or do you mean people in general? Like people bring their.

In general? Yeah, people in general.

When you get into these places of relationships where we work with couples where they're totally broken down, I think what Momtu just said is it's kind of a misnomer to think that they were doing that behavior to fuck you over. You know what I mean? Like they were doing it to cope, they were doing it to get through this hard situation. Maybe that's because that's how they dealt with conflict in their family of origin. So in the beginning you see it as, oh, I love this person and all of their flaws and all of their quirks. But then when things get hard, it suddenly turns to, oh, you're doing that to hurt me, you know?

But Topaz. And what you said, though, and I think this is the greatest disconnect in the relationship space that we don't associate to any other part of our lives is like you just said, you have the exact recipe to create this. So we have not had accomplishment in other areas of our life without precise investment of time, study, focus, energy, but yet we're supposed to meet a special someone, have this connection. And how does the story tell everyone? I've talked to people all over the world, and they live how everyone always can share happily ever after. Well, potentially. But, you know, I always say, look, Stacy's giving me the exact recipe. When she's upset, she's told me exactly. Can you please do this for me?

Abcd. Heck, yeah.

I'm all over it. But, I mean, I think we just. It's granular. It. You follow the recipe, and you've proved it. I mean, this is not theory. You've proven it over and over all over the world. So I find this fascinating. Well, like, you were. You're surprised this didn't go well. How much have you invested in it? Other than the expensive day of ceremony, how much else have you done?

Right. Exactly. Exactly. And also, I mean, there's so much. 1. It's when the going gets tough that you really see what you're about and the relationship is about. So for me, you win an Emmy, and the team tells you, thank you so much. This is an awesome moment. But, like, that's not the moment when we really care about each other. It's not when we won the award. It's the six months before when we're all up against the wall trying to figure it out, and we're scared that the company would falter. And it's like, okay, we're in the trenches now. What do you do in the trenches? That's what cements the relationship, and you really see what people are made of and their commitment under pressure. So when you have the challenge, if you're in a safe, healthy relationship, which safety and comfort are not to be confused, because ideally, you want to be safe and uncomfortable. But in those moments, are you gonna create a more resilient relationship? This conflict is up. Great. This is practice for us. Why? Because there's so much more we want from our relationship. There's so much more we want from life. And when we want to climb bigger mountains, we got to train harder. Like, we train our body. Where do we train? How to develop the humanity that's between us, that is in our relationships. When the second point was I was talking to someone, a gentleman on a podcast who runs his own podcast, obviously, Jason, American, living in Norway for 25 years. He's got a really nice conversation, beautiful heart. And he told me that a year ago he got cancer. And he has two kids who are in their 20s, early 20s, and his wife. And he said, listen, how you doing? And he goes, it's on the podcast. And he goes, well, pretty. I came to terms pretty quickly about dying and leaving my body, but I still haven't come to terms leaving my wife and my kids. And I think that's very true. I've had two friends in the last six months pass away to cancer. And I think that's. I think, okay, if you're going to take my body, I'm going to go, okay. But the thing the hardest is my relationships. I'm not going to see my son again. I'm not going to see my wife again. So if that's the thing that's hardest to come to terms with in our living right now, how much are we actually putting energy in developing and cherishing and cultivating those relationships? Because on the flip side, the ones that are closest to you kind of take for granted. That's my wife. She knows me for 20 years. We've been through thick and thin. Okay? She knows me. I don't need to ask these questions. I don't need to. Like, we're together. Okay. No, that's actually where most of the meat is. And isn't that ironic? Like, isn't that ironic?

It is so true. Is one of the reasons why we created the Better Love Club, because we wanted a place where human beings could come in and do what we call emotional weightlifting, which is me working against and stressing myself. Because, let's be honest, we struggle with connection because it requires courage of ourselves, the courage to be seen, to risk, to trust other human beings. And yet it's the thing that we yearn for and long for the most, because at our core, we know that life without it is exceptionally empty. So it's this conflict that we're constantly working through. And so where do we go to get stronger, more resilient, more capable, and increase our capacity to step into those courageous moments?

Well, it takes practice and think about, like, we practice for everything in our life except for getting married. You know what I mean? Like, we practice for marriage.

Like, after.

Yeah, yeah. Like, we practiced learning how to drive. We have to get a license. Practice learning how to cook. We practice using a knife in the kitchen. Like, all of these things but no one sits you down and says, hey, when you get married, you're going to need to learn to do all of these things. And they don't tell you that, and they don't teach you that. You're just expected to know. And then when it goes bad and you don't know all the things that you don't know, you think, oh, I'm just a failure. No, there's just so many skills you're missing, you know, because.

Yeah, aren't we? So the story that, like, love will conquer all. So if you have, yes, love, and that's an emotion, but there's also the action of love, which actually reinforces the emotion of love. And if you don't have the action of love, then the emotion of love will dissipate and change and will not gloss over the challenges. But then love can be deepened with action of love, which becomes another type of emotion and love. But like you said, we're not taught that. We're bought. And I think we are now. I mean, look, by virtue of the work you guys are doing and the communities you're building, people are leaning into that.

Am I the only one that's ever had the experience where you finally get brave enough at a family gathering with your family members and you start to kind of reveal a little bit that, like, things aren't going so great and you hadn't had sex in six months and you're not quite sure what to do about it?

Yeah.

And that's the experience you get. Everybody starts to laugh, like, oh, welcome to the crew. Yeah, you know, oh, yeah, you're really adulting now. You know, knock it out of the park. Go get it. Because nobody has any answers, but everybody relates to the experience. And then you're. You'll be fine. You'll. You'll figure it out. You're left there going, what? Like, everybody's known behind the scenes, like, we didn't know how to do this and nobody's talked about it. And now you're welcoming me to some club. You know, has anybody had that experience outside of myself?

Yeah. That's why people who have no business giving relationship advice give it all the time to their kids and their friends and their family members. And then, you know, you try. It doesn't work because it's shitty advice. And then you, again, think you're a failure. It's because we don't talk about how relationships really work and what it really takes to keep them good.

We work very much in the space and separation place. Topaz That's a. That's just a work that is near and dear to my heart. Because humans are coming in from just a tremendous amount of struggle. And it's so incredible to watch them become strong and resilient and to realize things about themselves, themselves and their partners that just simply weren't. So. It's amazing how we start to kind of, like, turn them into monsters and demonize them for their own struggles of trying to cope and get along and do as I do the same. And we're all doing it, you know, look, we're all doing the very best we know how, given where we come from and the experiences we know to be true. So if we could just all give everybody a hall pass for a minute and look behind the behavior, because if you understood the story behind it, you would understand it. It would make so much more sense. But the behavior itself on the front side is just so mesmerizing and confusing.

At what point do you actually not engage in a relationship and cut it off? Like, at what point do you. How do you know you're in a toxic relationship? Because I'm always saying safety is imperative, but not to be confused with comfort and discomfort. You want to be safe but uncomfortable. But how do you know it's a safe relationship that I don't. I. I have my supposition, but I don't have much experience in that field. I did have a friendship that I did cut last year, I should say. And I asked myself that a lot, like, why am I doing that? I mean, why am I not engaging in a very uncomfortable conversation? And what came for me was I just don't trust the space between us. I don't trust this other person. I don't trust. I don't trust them, and I don't. Therefore, I feel like the conversation won't be beneficial at this point. Maybe I'll mature in a year or two, and maybe I'll see it for a different point of view, and then I'll change my mind and then I'll reengage. But at this point, I don't see. I don't trust them. I don't trust their words. I don't trust the conversation. I don't trust the space between us. So I didn't engage. So I'm wondering for you guys, because sometimes there are toxic relationships where at least I've heard where you just. Because that's the first time I've ever cut someone off. Off. Well, how do you guys know? Do you ever do that? Or are you saying no we always go uncomfortable no matter what.

Teach it in a skill like this. Topaz. The first step that I have to get clear about is where I end and somebody else begins. Because I can't identify the space between us unless I know what belongs to me and what doesn't. And so often in relationships, I'm so up in it that maybe I'm taking emotional responsibility for things that don't belong to me, or I'm carrying the relationship on my back because that's what I've been taught a good person, a good lover, a good spouse, good friend does. And so we start our journeys there. I have to figure out what belongs to me and what belongs to you in the emotional space. If we were to do that physically and we put our hands together, it would make complete sense. I would have a complete, complete sense of knowing where I end and you begin. But if it's emotional, it can get really, really crazy and funky, where I'm taking responsibility for things that don't belong to me and vice versa. Once we've established that place of clarity between us by just getting really good at being able to translate our thoughts, feelings, and emotions and what we make up as true in our minds, then I have a place and I can start to begin knowing with clarity where that is. It's my thoughts, my feelings, my emotions, my experience. That's where I end and somebody else begins, and the other person needs to do the same. And how we know what's possible in that then is as we're practicing skills, I get to see where I might start collapsing or controlling or trying to get defensive in the space. And I can look at that, and I can see that, and I can decide what it is I want to do with that.

But.

But then I can also start to see where the other person is in this place and space. Like, in your words, we get to start seeing what the and is between us. I like to think of it like chemistry. So I do my part. These are the things that I need or want or that I struggle with. What's your part? You get to bring that to the table, too. And if that and part becomes a point and a place and a space where instead of it helping us break through, we're breaking down, instead of.

How do you know you're breaking through? And what is it like?

Like when they come to the table and meet you there and practice the skills with you, and if you're like, let's have a good conversation about this, and they don't constantly put up a Wall or do their defensive behavior or put all the blame on you, or.

What about the opposite? Totally like sharing, but manipulating. Yes, there's that too, right? There's a flip side. Like really great, articulate, super. But they're manipulating you to be in the position to them that they want you in versus yes, maybe what you need.

Or like open sharing where you both can have a seat at the table and you both can share things. A lot of times only one partner can share and the other person just has to take it. If they switch and you try to share and they make it all about themselves or deflect it back to you, then there's not much available there for you.

Then what do you do?

That's where you. I would say, looking at what you shared with us, you did all of that in your mind. You assessed the situation. I sense you probably gave it a lot of chances just by the type of. Of person that you are. You know, you're like, I'm testing this out. I'm seeing if this friend can meet me here. I'm seeing if they're willing to drop this manipulative behavior just in your. Assessing it as you go. What we always tell our clients is that when you've reached a point where you're like, I don't really think I can continue like this anymore, it's a really quiet knowing inside of you. You feel very confident in a decision at this moment to maybe stop this relationship or come back to it at a different point. You feel confident about it because you trust that you tried everything you could and there's really not anything available for you to keep going.

Well, it's this place where that's the breakthrough breakdown. Are we getting better at sharing and creating that space between us, or are we just continuously breaking down and going in circles, taking my emotion out on you, blaming you, punishing you, because it starts to show where everybody is in their own capacity and capabilities. And, you know, I'm not one to make it malicious, but it does showcase to you where we are in what is possible at this place in space and time right now. And that empowers me to make that quiet choice that I need to make for myself. Because let's be honest, if I break down and I'm in a relationship where I know I'm falling apart, what am I accomplishing there? If it's a game over, it becomes a lose lose, or what I call the race to the bottom, where we're practicing in the dynamic between us not moving forward and creating greater Connection and intimacy, but actually playing the game of whose fault it is, who's to blame. I manipulate and control you, I collapse and take all the responsibility in the relationship. And in that we're both breaking down. And when you talk to both individual people in the mix, everybody knows we're breaking down. Everybody knows that it's an insufferable place. And then we get to make choices in regards to what it is we want to do from there. And some people will say, yeah, I want to do this, I want to work, I want to do the push ups, I want to learn, I want to grow. And some people will go, nah, I'm just going to find somebody else.

And here's, I think the most interesting point of this. So by the way, that's a phenomenal question that we get asked all the time. And here's where, in addition to what everything has been shared between with Stacy and Brooke is people will say, should I go another round? How many rounds should I go? As many as you need to to reach what we've just described. So my point is it's a very individualized and personalized decision. People, people want us to tell them.

But we don't, we don't, don't any of us want it to be told, like, when can I let go? And just like I can't tell you who you are or where your place in the world is or what you should do for a living or how you want to show up as a X, Y and Z, we need to find and discover those places inside of ourselves. So it's a journey. And so if you're feeling like you can't let go right now, for whatever reason, it's not my place to tell you and remind you about all the egregious things. It's my place to help you see and understand what it is that you're not able to let go of. So that you can then say, okay, well let me tweak this and then I'll step in and see what happens. Then I can step in. And you'll find that as we go through rounds like that, there'll always be a clunk. One of two things are going to happen. We're making tremendous progress. This is awesome. Look at us go. Ever think this was possible? Or you start to go, okay, I get it. I see clearly now why this isn't going to work for me and not work for you. I. It's time for us to let go into a different place. I think the reason why personally we don't see more examples of this is because we don't know how to get emotionally complete with a co creation in the mix. We don't know how to find our way through it. And so it waits until it gets to this exponentially painful moment where we go, that's it, I've had enough. You're this, I'm out. Because we're doing it from a place of unresolved. We're incomplete. We don't understand. We don't know especially what I'm thinking and feeling and what didn't work and you know, all those things. When we can get to a place of completion, then we can let go. Even though it's still hard and it's still difficult, we can let go and create more of what I call loving release where we don't have to screw each other. We understand, we can acknowledge it and we can be grateful. I've seen some of this happen in some of this conversation on your own Skin Deep Productions where I'm so thankful for our relationship because it gave me so much. Even though I understand now in this moment, we can't continue. That's what my book is all about. You know, my book, Marriage is Dead is all about all of my learning and years of relationship and what it taught me and how it helped me to become the woman that stands before you today. And I think we don't treat relationships like that. We don't teach them as the, shall we say, playground of learning how to become a better me and what works and doesn't work for me. We use them as something that's expected or owed. We, we use love as this thing that's supposed to see us through and keep us together forever and always. And love is a great place to start, but it never gives us any guarantees like that. I think the soul that we are, as you said, I don't think that we come together as humanity. I would say I completely agree with you because the seeds of my own making is really dedicated to me becoming who I have the capacity to be in this lifetime. And the best way for me to see and do that and grow that and experience that is to fool around and get into a relationship.

Why?

Because it's going to bring up all my potential, all my dreams and hopes for the future and everything that I feel like I can be and do. But it's also going to bring up all my fear and insecurity at the same moment. And the more I care, the more intense it is for me to see, look at and work through because our emotions are invisible. We don't get to see them, like seeing our bodies. Right. We have to feel them and experience them in order to understand what to do with them.

Yeah. Beautiful. Wow.

Great.

Thank you. Thank you guys for that. I've been wondering that. I'm still wondering that. I've been, like, paying a lot of.

Well, you know, and it's just once you share that you're having a problem in your relationship, everyone in our circle becomes the most incredible relationship expert about our relationship. I find that fascinating. Is that not true? You know, so. And to be fair, we say, look, I mean, I think throughout your close circle, they don't want to see you suffer. So they're.

They're.

They don't have the ability to be objective. They're going to take your side, you.

Know, so when people come to me, should I get married? Should I break up? Should I? Anything. I think maybe five, ten years ago I would analyze it with them and try to give them my feedback. And now I don't do that at all because I think that's frankly a waste of time. I think, okay, what you need to do is just create a better question. Of course, my partner and should I marry her? I don't know. I'm like, okay, this is what you do. You come up with 30 questions you feel in. There's three parts to a question is a time frame. How it makes you feel, how it makes other people feel. Come up with 30 to 50 of them. Brainstorm. What can I do in the next six weeks to really challenge myself in intimacy such that I can be best prepared for a loving relationship with a future partner? What can I do for the next year to really feel safe and calm my nervous system such that I can be in a position to then explore a relationship in the future? What can I do in the next six months to go to the edge, test myself out as much as possible in intimacy so that I can be a good contributor to my family? Look at this brainstorm circle, the one inspires you most. And then whether you should be with that person. Dump them, marry them. That answer that. That question will be obvious as to what you should do with that relationship when it applies to work. Just when you're banging your head around the circle, it's because you're not asking a quality question. Construct a better question that inspires you. The answer becomes obvious. Now, that's my spiel. When people, hey, I want to take my business for to do this is. Okay, great. Why? Why that? How's this before we go and make the strategy, because the execution actually is easy. It's like, what are you really after? Why do you need to make a company that affects a billion lives or a billion dollars, or that goes exit, or that? What is it? What is it? You're. What is the emotional state you're trying to fulfill? Let's create a question that really drives it and then you'll know what to do.

Yeah. You teach about this in your book 12 Questions for Love. You teach that the questions that we ask are the crown jewels of our conversations. And as you encourage, put more into the questions and the answers will change. So I would love for you to teach us a little bit about great questions and how you craft questions.

Look, there's five things people say. First of all, there's no right question, there's no wrong question. But there are better constructed questions than others. To what end? You can say like, there are better constructed questions. And it's not an art, it's a science. The art comes in terms of the sequencing of the questions. Right. But there is a science to it and the science is here. There are five parts, five qualities that if you can bring 1, 2, 3 or 05 into it, they will improve the quality of the question in the scope of a relationship. So you're talking about any type of relationship with your father, your best friend, your spouse, your ex, co parenting partner, your children. You do these five things, you will have really incredible conversations. The connective one a lot of people miss. So let's start there. Which is the most unique thing A connective question is one that acknowledges the people who are in the conversation. And the litmus test for that is you go, okay, if I want to ask you this question and you're going to answer this the same way as if anybody asks you that. It's not a connective question. So, Stacy, what do you love about relationships? Okay, Tom says, hey, Stacey, what do you love about relationships? And Brooke or a stranger says, what do you love about relationships? Well, I'll tell you what, I love this. You're going to answer that question the same regardless of who asks. But if you make it connective, it acknowledges who you're in conversation with. And therefore it's a different answer depending on who's asking because it reflects the people you're in conversation with. So if I change that question to Stacy, what do you think we both love and hate most about relationships? If I ask you that and Brooke asks you that and Tom asked you that, and a stranger asks you, you're going to answer totally differently because we're totally different people and you have a different relationship with each one of us. You're not going to answer the same question. If Tom asked you, then Brooke asks you because you're different, you have different relationships. The question acknowledges the connection. So what does that mean? A, it makes that conversation that much more unique because it's acknowledging the person who's in front of you. We ask a lot of questions that don't acknowledge the people in the conversation. So it becomes just, at some point, I'm going to get bored of listening to you, you know, because it's about you and you and. No. Okay, that has nothing to do with me. It's reflective of our relationship. So me asking the question, I'm actually more interested in the answer because your answer is a reflection of your opinion of me. Your perception of our relationship isn't that interesting. So, one, make the question connected. Two, make it constructive. Have it be a question that fetches a constructive answer. Why do we fight so much? Why did he or she dump me? Are these questions going to fetch you quality answers that are going to make you feel better, that are constructive, that you can give you agency? Instead, you can say, what is our biggest challenge right now and what is it teaching us? Why do I feel we're fighting so much? And what. What can I learn from that? What am I going to take away from this relationship that I'll carry to the next? Are minds are faithful dogs that chase down any stick you throw. And the stick you throw is the question you ask. So throw the stick in a place that will fetch a quality answer. Be conscientious. The answers you're begging for are preceded by the questions you shape. So that's number two. Number three, if you're looking to explore your relationship, A relationship is not black and white. It's grays and colors and nuance. That's part of the beauty. So don't start a question with the words is, are, do, would, should. Because any question that starts with any one of those words, I don't care what it is, it begs a binary response. Are we doing the right thing? Yes. No. Should we move to Texas? Yes. No. Would you like to have dinner tonight? Yes. No. I'm talking about in the context of a conversation where you're exploring the nuance of your relationship. Don't ask binary questions because there's no way that ends the conversation like that. You're begging. A quick end. You want to converse. You want to explore. Start with why in what way? How? If this, then that, then what? Because if you start with those, that immediately begs exploration. There's no binary response. Number four is you want to make it a surprising question. You want to create a pause. Why do you want to create a pause? Because in the pause is where they're trying to find the answer. If they're trying to find the answer, that means they haven't really thought about it before because they haven't found it yet. So, Stacy, Tom, don't answer this, but what is a truth you both hate telling each other in your relationship? What is the lie that you love telling each other in this relationship? See how they're different? It's like flipping or like in a business, you'd say, what is our pursuit of profit costing us? What are the values we don't share with our customers? So trying to put two different ideas together so that you take a pause and you go, okay, let me think about that. There's also a nice one that I like that recently came up with. It was like you'd ask your partner, what's the special thing in me that enables a special thing in you? You know, there are many special things about you, but what's that thing in me? And not only is it that thing in me that enables in you, but it's also got to be something special. Do you see how that answer fetches a beautiful response? And believe me, your mind is just a faithful dog. I mean, you can give it the most complicated question in the world. It's going to go find some kind of story answer to give you. Yeah, it'll do its best. This is what I'm sensing. This is what comes it. So really trying to create the space so that you're putting two different things together is really helpful. The flip side of that, in terms of things that makes people give pause and is that unexpected is that you want to put. It's helpful also if you can. Meaning another side of the coin. So it's not expected. It could also be like, you know, what do you think is the hardest thing for me? Being in a relationship with you. What do you think is the hardest thing? Being your daughter. You gotta put yourself in your daughter's shoes.

What is the hardest thing? Working for your parents.

Yes. So things that putting different people in each other's shoes is really helpful because it creates different perspective. And what that really creates is empathy.

Especially for people who struggle with empathy. That's a really cool way to teach it.

I don't know, I have to research this but there's a lot of thing about identity and like that's the hardest thing to change. And I wonder if we can bypass a portion of that or jump start it if we just ask ourselves a different question. Because your mind is just a really incredible machine to go search for answers. But our hearts, if our hearts create the questions, we can fetch a different answer which then may lead to different behavior.

And number five, you have one more right.

Yeah. Number five is offer the question as a gift, not as an agenda. If we're here to cultivate humanity between us, what we're really saying is we're trying to invite the hearts to connect, if you will, the emotions to connect, not the mind. Because the mind is built to protect. It's going to go find you answer is going to protect you. So offer the question as a gift, not as an agenda. Don't. Not a pointing finger. Why were you late to the dinner? Like why. Why do I feel like you don't respect me? And how do you do that? How do you do that? Is that you feel into your sentiment with curiosity like you started, Stacy, like we're in a relationship when pretty much everyone does their best and not really malevolent. Okay. If that's the case or if we believe that and you believe that you're with your brother, your spouse, your parent, whatever, your child co worker. Look, we're on the same team. We're family. We're. This, this really hurt me. Do they really want. I don't think they really want to hurt me because if they really want to hurt me, I probably wouldn't be relationship with them to begin with because I don't trust them. So why do they do that? There's got to be a reason. Maybe it's. So then ask the question from that curiosity.

Yeah.

Instead of the more superficial reactionary thing, take pause and go away. What's underneath this? Because what's the real curiosity? They really want to me over. They really want to. Is that what's really going on? If it is, am I even in this relationship? Wait, what is the curiosity? Ask the question from the curiosity. Because then offers a gift. Why? Because you don't know the answer. And if you don't know the answer, that is not pushing them against the wall. That's going, hey, I'm placing down a olive branch of peace here because it's out of curiosity. Will you pick it up and illuminate for me in your best way that you can why this thing turned out so I can maybe understand it a little Better. That's number five.

We teach that as getting people in touch with the narratives and the stories that they make up from their minds and how we piece those experiences together in a story that makes sen. Because as humans, we love stories. And I'm going to tell you why I do what I do and who I am and all the ins and outs of it. And then when we start to share those narratives, you get to start to see behind the reality of things. I'm pretty convinced that in the emotional space and our relationships with other humans, we very much live in places of illusion. We think that these things are happening for X, Y and Z. But until we ask the questions like you've just described, we don't really know the answers because we're not asking the answers. We're answering the questions for ourselves without involving the other person.

And then the next part of that is then we're living congruent to that. We always say we don't have the intel. We have to ask the question to get the intel. But we answer the questions for our partners all the time. And then with the answer that we created, we live the relationship as if that's true.

And here's the kicker. This is the part that I love the most. You know how we're all driving around on the highway and somebody cuts you off and all of us kind of tend to go sucker. You know, watch where you're going. You. Now we're giving them the one finger salute only for me to go through the stoplight or the red light and then accidentally cut somebody else off. But here, here's the thing. In my movie, in my narrative, I know why I did it and I know it wasn't malicious. So it's okay for me to do it. So we have this narrative that justifies our behavior. And I understand, but when you do it, it's a totally different thing. When you start to see through that. Oh, you do that too. I do that too. Oh my gosh. You know, there's a common place in space where we're all cutting people off. We're all manipulative, we're all a hot mess. We all react, we all lie. We all do these things that we demonize other people for, but we ourselves know why I'm doing it. And it's a justifiable story. So it's not a problem when I do it. It's probably when you do it.

So let me ask you guys a question because you guys seem very sweet. Brooke, you got a little more edge than your Parents, for sure.

But I do see.

And Tom, I mean, maybe, but like, what is your relationship to anger? Because I think there's a healthy relationship to anger, which I've had a lot of it. And I wouldn't say it's been destructive, but it hasn't, especially with children. Now that I have two children, five and a two year old, there's places I need to improve on that, that, you know. But there are healthy uses of anger and expression because you don't want to suppress it either. You need to let that out and explore it. So what is your relationship to anger? And what do you. What's the advice you give to your clients about managing and processing anger?

First of all, let me say something really quick. It's very funny to ask them this question because these two people are literally the least angry people on the planet. And it frustrates me so much sometimes. I'm like, could you just be mad? Could you just yell? I call them the Disney couple couple, because they're just like Disney prince and princess all the time. And it's not fake. That's just how they are. But they do experience.

You're angry. I mean, come on. I can hear your. Your voice. The sound is peaking. So what? I guess they're the wrong people to ask how. Well, no, maybe you are the right people to ask. Where has anger? What was the last time anger was in your life?

I can get pretty rebellious.

You get.

I get the last time.

Anger is anger.

Yeah. They're just really not angry people. But it's not like they never are angry, but they genuinely are.

I kind of believe when you say they're never angry. I, I bet angry, like since they met, probably.

Yeah, they just, it's really not their default emotion. Like, they don't. I would say that they go to stress and anxiety more than they go to anger.

I would say that's true. But here's the thing I do love about anger. Anger will. Will produce action. Yeah. Like, you know, I know when I'm angry because all right, this shit's gonna get handled and it's gonna go down right now. No more sitting on it. And I, I would say the only reason why perhaps, maybe I don't get stuck in anger a lot is understanding what it is and how it shows up and what I need to do with it. And so when I work with clients about anger, what we're really dealing with is an emotional constipation issue where something happens and then I don't know what to do next. But I have all of this energy and all of this charge and I got to do something with it, right? Because I'm going to fucking lose my mind if I don't. And so if I don't do something with it and I don't understand what to do with it because I don't know how to translate my thoughts, feelings and emotions into a language that first I can understand, I'm going to lose my shit. Not because I'm a bad person, but because the anger is an emotion that creates motion. Like now, right now.

Something that we teach our clients that gives them an aha moment maybe. And it can apply to any intense emotion like defensiveness, anger, yelling. All of those things is the power of the pause or putting yourself in neutral. So it's you recognizing, okay, I'm getting to that breaking point and going into neutral so that you can have a moment in yourself that's like, what do I need to do here?

And that will work as long as I haven't been sitting on it. If I've been sitting on it, it. I'm not any success with that because it's saying, do something now. This is not okay. This doesn't work for me. I'm not going to tolerate this. This is bullshit. Like it's coming from that place. So I need to address it right then and there. And if I don't know how to or I don't have an outlet to do that, I'm going to sit on it. So the next time it happens, I'm not going to be able to manage it.

That's good.

The tragedy in that situation is what we make up about ourselves when we lose our shit. About myself and about, you know, others make up about me. That's an important piece because it's not bad at all. You just don't understand how the mechanism works best.

Please share with us where people can find more about your incredible body of work.

The skindeep.com and all social media is the Skin Deep. My personal website is topaz adizas.com if.

You haven't already, pick up Topaz's book 12 Questions for Love, A guide to intimate conversations and deeper relationships. And also pick up a deck of his Skin Deep cards. I use these on my own private practice and they were work incredibly well. They open up conversations and because they ask questions that we normally don't think to ask. So I encourage you to pick up a deck. He has decks that are specifically tailored to couples and singles and dating and family.

Families.

Yep. So they're Incredible. So, so check those out. There's a link in the show notes. And also, if by chance you're needing some practical principles and skills to navigate the challenges in your relationship, I'm going to invite you to connect with me. Over at stacybartley.com there's a suite of offerings that will help you create more of those things that you're wanting to experience in your own relationship in life. So let's step into Follow the Fun. We've got to end it with One of our questions from Topaz, the one that I love, especially for couples that are going through a challenging time, is what is the biggest challenge in our relationship and what do you think it's teaching us? And it's. It's so interesting. Just like he said in the podcast about those five principles to craft a really good question, this one embodies all of those five things by actually looking at the challenges that we're having and also then trying to discover what it is that's benefiting us from the challenge itself. Again, what is the biggest challenge in our relationship and what do you think it's teaching us that will open up a wonderful conversation? Enjoy it. All right, so the song I'm doing Yellow.

I'm doing Coldplay. Yellow. Yellow.

Love it.

All right.

My five year old son's favorite song. It makes me cry every time.

Precious.

Thank you so much for the song. It's so precious. It's so sweet. And thank you so much for joining us here in the Love Shack today. It's such a pleasure and an honor to connect with you. We look forward to doing these each and every week. If you have any questions or shares that you would like us to talk about or or present, please don't hesitate to connect with us. We're here to connect with you and to also share what it is we're uncovering and learning along this journey of life and love as well. So have a wonderful week and we look forward to spending some more time with you next week inside the Love Shark. Bye bye for now. All right, it's time to leave the Love Shack. But before we part ways, we want you to know how to door is always open and we'll leave the porch light on.

Ready to welcome you back whenever you.

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Sam.