#224: The Silent Wedge: How Defensiveness Destroys Emotional Safety

Have you ever thought, why does it feel like we're speaking two very different languages? You say one thing, they hear another. Somehow, the more you try to explain it, the worse it gets. This is what defensiveness does. It scrambles our words, shuts down our connection, and makes even love feel like a battlefield. Here's the thing. Research from Dr. John Gottman, the guy who predicts divorce with over 90% accuracy. He shows that defensiveness is one of the biggest red flags in a relationship. Not because you're broken, but because it quietly erodes emotional safety and kills communication. I'm Stacey Bartley, a relationship mentor and emotional skill builder, and this is Love Shack Live. It's a podcast for people at a relationship's crossroads who are tired of trying harder and are ready to try different. I'm here with my partner, in life and in all things to Tom and our daughter Brooke. And together, we've walked thousands of people through the messiest parts of love and helped them build something better on the other side. So here's what I want to ask you. What if the very thing you are doing to protect your heart is actually what keeps real love out? In today's episode, we're unpacking defensiveness, why we do it, how it silently chips away at our connection, and what to do when you feel that urge to shut down, snap back, or entirely disappear. We're going to show you how to drop the armor and rebuild the kind of connection that lasts.

Hey, thank you for coming. Welcome to the love shack.

So let's talk about that invisible armor, that armor of defensiveness. Let's really break it down and make it simple so that you can understand exactly what we're talking about.

And I'm having a little fun here, but if you're one of our wonderful listeners, first of all, thank you. But you say, okay, Thomas, Daisy, and Brooke, I'm going to check off now because I don't. I'm not a defensive person. With greatest love and respect, none of us gets the hall pass. We all are defensive. This is probably one of the most important episodes we could do because we coach and mentor around this all the time.

Well, and the reason why Tom is saying that as I'm going to just ask you a question. Have you ever been emotionally uncomfortable? Well, if you have been, you've probably been defensive. You've probably armored up. See, defensiveness comes in all colors.

You think of defensiveness probably as just one type of behavior. But what you're going to see in this episode is that there are so many different behaviors that fall under the umbrella of defensiveness.

We all have uncomfortable emotions, don't we? We all have times where we feel awkward, unsettled, a little internal conflict, not quite sure what to do or have things, conversations, words, situations show up that all of a sudden we want to get the hell outta here. That's usually our sign. I don't wanna do this. I don't wanna be here. I don't wanna talk about this. I don't wanna bring this up. I don't want to look at this. And then it's like we can cue the armor if we don't understand it to be the opportunity that it is. Like whoever said that? So when I'm uncomfortable, it's an opportunity. Yeah, nobody thinks of it like that. Unless, of course, you've done some work, some learning, et cetera. Because we're all going to have moments where we feel uncomfortable. We don't want to go there. We don't know what to do. We feel conflict, we get defensive. So let's talk about a few flavors of defensiveness, because then you'll probably see that, yeah, you might do one or several of them. As I say to my personal clients, look, you can't have too many. Don't be embarrassed about any of them. What I want you to do is get up close and personal to all the ones you relate to. Because the more we can make these defensive things our friend, the more we have the ability to work with them. If we don't look at them, understand them, embrace them, make them our allies and friends, well, they're gonna run the show, they're gonna run our lives, they're gonna run our experiences. Because you're gonna get uncomfortable, and then you're gonna do that thing you do. That's what we call it over here, that thing I do. And we all get defensive, as Tom said, and it's rarely conscious. All we know in a flash, because emotions move very fast. All I know in a flash is I'm uncomfortable. I don't want to do this. Cue the defensiveness. Like it all happens in a nanosecond. Defensiveness can be, I twist the story. I make this about something you did. I take it personal, I attack, I accuse, I gather evidence. Even if it says, well, so and so doesn't say that so and so said, or, hey, Bernie, Ethel, you know, Joe, come on over here. Let me tell you what's been said, and then you tell me what you think. That's defensiveness or, I'm not doing this right now. We're not going there. I told you this is an off topic subject or. Why the hell would you say that? Why would you go there? I can't even believe you'd bring that up after all we've talked about. Or, you know, the classic. The eye roll. Oh, God, here we go again. It's gonna be the same. Oh, my God. I thought we've talked about this so many times. Those are all flavors and colors of defensiveness. And we all do it. It's all a part of our lives and our relationships. And I'm just gonna go around the room right now with the three of us here on the channel, like, what's your favorite form of defensiveness that comes up for you as we talk about this?

I sometimes like to bring up a time where the other person did something too. You know, like take the focus on me and say, well, you did this that time.

This. That's a good one. That's a really good.

I like to gather evidence to defend my defensiveness.

Yeah.

So then it's fine. No, it's not defensive. This is just because of X, Y and Z. Perfectly normal.

And I just want to dismiss whatever you're saying and do whatever the hell I want anyway. Like, whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, now I'm going to go do what it is I said I was going to do anyway. I don't need to listen to this. It doesn't make any sense. Whatever, whatever, whatever. And, and those are all very classic defensiveness, but there's also so many. We can laugh, we can get sarcastic, we can dismiss, we can twist it around, we can gather evidence. I'm trying to think of all the classics that I see. How about shutting down? I can dismiss it, I can ignore it, I can pretend like I don't remember. Huh? Oh, did you say that? Oh, I don't remember.

Defend. Passively defend.

A defensiveness can also be attached to, like a great story. Oh, well, you've got it all wrong. It happened here instead of there. It can be any way that I'm trying to twist, contort, turn the conversation, the narrative. And I just want you to see the baseline point of it all, to make it as simple as possible, is we're just simply trying to get ourselves out of the feeling uncomfortable that I don't want to experience.

And also, would you say it's because we want to try to absolve ourself of any association of the upset that is taking place? Meaning there's no accountability for me. I didn't contribute to any of this.

That'S later down the line. But I think the initial part of defensiveness is what mom, too said. It's like trying to immediately get the focus off of you so that you can stop having to be in the spotlight where you're going to have to have the conversation that you don't want to have.

My classic. That always comes to my mind. We start talking about defensiveness is like the image that always comes flooding in, because I've actually been in this situation where I'd promised to pay somebody back and then I didn't have the money to pay him back. And then I bump into them at the grocery store and I'm in aisle eight going, shit. And I'm trying to hide out. I'm trying to figure out how I can get out of the grocery store without them seeing me. Because what I don't. I'm trying to avoid the conversation altogether. I know I promised I was going to pay you back and don't have the money, so I don't want to have that conversation at all. So I'm going to, like, see if I can slip out the back door. And that is a classic when we get triggered. I'm trying to slip out the back door. I'm trying to not have to own up, to take responsibility, address the thing that's presenting, look at it dead in the eyes. I'm uncomfortable. And all I know in that moment is I want it to go away, I want to avoid it, I want to shut it down, I want to get the heck out of Dodge. Trying to slip out the back door. And we have lots of places and spaces of managing and coping with that thing. I do. And they're not disingenuous. There are places and spaces where maybe being defensive really did help us at some point in time. AKA they got us out of the situation. They worked. They were effective for a moment, but only to come back with a resurgence is often what defensiveness brings to our door zone. So you find that these things I'm trying to shut down, I'm trying to avoid, I'm trying to escape, come back in a bigger, more escalated conversation again and again and again. So if you're in a situation where you get the eye roll and you're like, oh, my gosh, we're doing this again, well, that is a sure sign that we've not gotten to a place of clarity and understanding again. And so here we are. And it's probably because of the eye roll on the defensive position that you're taking that you're not going to just do it a thousand times. If you continue on this track, you're going to do it 5,000 times instead. Like, the eye roll and the is not going to take you anywhere. It's just you raising your hand to say, yep, bring it around another time. Because I. I didn't get it this round. Let's do it again, folks. Let's do it again. And I also want to tap into, like, the emotional exhaustion that happens from defensiveness. Round over round, over round, it's coming back around. If we don't understand it, we don't talk through it, we don't take responsibility for it. Those would be the steps through it. If we're going to step into defensiveness, it's like, bring it another round, let's go and make it more painful the next time. That's literally what we signed up for. And so over time, this armor of not wanting to step into these conversations will cost us everything. And when I say everything, I don't say that cavalier, like, defensiveness costs me not only my relationship with others, it costs me my relationship with myself. Why? Because when I get defensive, I'm telling myself a story. I'm giving myself an excuse to not take responsibility for the very thing that needs to be looked at head on, dead on, courageously understood. Maybe taken some ownership or cleaning up a mess. Like in the grocery store when I bumped into the lady that I wanted to seek the back door out because I totally dumped her in the soup. You know, the best gift I could have given to both of us is to walk up to her boldly and say, you know what? I've promised to pay you back and I'm sorry, I haven't done it. Here's when I think I can, and I'm so sorry. Then we could have had a conversation and we could have worked through it. But me dodging out the back door, ghosting somebody, ignoring the situation, pretending like it's not happening, not willing to look at my part in it, is me continuing to armor up. And when I armor up, I want you to understand that as human beings, how we create our own internal suffering. Because I know I'm hiding out. I know I'm avoiding the issue. I know I'm not showing up the way that I need to. But I convince myself that it's okay because I'm uncomfortable right now. I don't want to talk about this. This isn't okay. I don't know what to do with these emotions that are getting brought up in this instance. And so I'm just going to avoid them instead. That ensures that they're coming back around in a more escalated version of themselves until they get your attention. And that's true for all of us. None of us get a hall pass on this one.

One of the places that people just can't seem to understand the importance of what we're sharing and you just see people going, this is a, you know, we seem to be having the same difficulties. We go around and around and around because we don't have the ability to turn and face what's going on. And we think if we just continue to be defensive long enough, it will go away, it will intensify. Stacy said, you know, the universe is amazing. It will present us a lesson until it's mastered and the escalation will increase.

Well, here's the thing. We make it up that if I'm successful in shutting the conversation down or avoiding having to look or address something that will go away, that I've actually created success. The success that has been created in that moment is, yes, you've avoided having to confront or look at it in this moment, but what's transpired in the invisible is still very real. I'll give you a classic example. I have a person in my life very intimately right now that continues to say one thing and then gets defensive about not doing it. And then they have a great story about why it didn't happen. And they think that that absolves all of the impact and no, it doesn't. Because what's happening in the invisible is I just don't believe anything they say anymore. I don't have faith or trust in them about doing or saying anything that makes any sense of foundation to me whatsoever. So, you know, that puts me in a position where I completely discount everything they say, even though sometimes they might be saying something really important.

It puts the person who is living having incongruence in a terrible amount of self shame and beat up and guilt. And you know, they're playing it cool on the outside, but they're feeling like a piece of shit on the inside because they know the truth, you know well.

And imagine the suffering on that side where I'm second guessing and questioning everything. I don't take anything that they say seriously anymore. So I can't even imagine the frustration of that too. Especially when they are being truthful and it's still being dismissed, discounted, not trusted, interrogated because of this impact that's happened on the front side or more consistently. And so our brains are going to default to those types of impact. It's really important that you see that and then we can all make up these narratives. You don't give a damn about me, you don't respect me, you don't want to contribute to me. You don't want to pour in here and then we're off to the races. Because I'm going to live congruent to that narrative, whatever it is. And that's also going to determine and dictate how I show up day in, day out, day in, day out. And that's. It all stems from defensiveness, where we shut conversations down and then we don't think there's any impact, that we've actually gotten away with it. But there is impact. Although we can't see it and identify it, there really is impact. So this is why broken agreements and commitments and getting defensive about when they're broken is such a huge deal. It will be the destroyer of your relationship, more so than anything else we could point a finger at. Because it creates canyons of divide over time in very invisible, seemingly non eventful moments. You won't even see it coming.

It's very incremental and it's very destructive.

It creates this huge silent wedge between us. Like it becomes sometimes impenetrable because there has been so much defensive. And I justify my defensive posture on your defensive posture. I say, I won't do these things anymore if you won't do those things anymore. And you say, well, I only do these things because you do those things. It kind of turns into this catch 22 where our defensiveness kind of pings off of each other. Well, you stop doing your thing and I'll stop doing my thing. Well, I can't stop doing my thing because you won't stop doing your thing. It becomes this perpetual cause and effect between us in long term relationships. Very often, well, even short term relationships where we get stuck in our defensive postures and really what's going on if we look behind the surface, there is. What's getting brought up are things that I feel very uncomfortable about talking about, disclosing, coming clean with. I don't want to tell the truth about it. I don't want to have to get vulnerable. I shouldn't have to do that without realizing my vulnerability is my greatest superpower. If I can't get vulnerable so that I can say things like, yeah, great point, or yeah, I didn't handle that well, did I? Or geez, I can see where you're coming from now. Yeah, that's a good Idea. Let's go that way.

You're right. I really messed up. I apologize.

What if you're in a relationship with someone who is extremely defensive, but you know that the best way to call it out isn't you're being really defensive right now. That's typically not a good way to make a defensive person less defensive.

I would say help me understand where you're coming from right now, because I don't understand why you're getting rigid in this place. Tell me more about what's going on for you. You want somebody to dive into that experience so that they are actually can talk with you about the defensiveness. If you can get them to start talking about the defensiveness, then you're going to start to see the emotional driver behind it, which will tell you more about what the person is experiencing. And if we can share what it is we're experiencing and I feel like you understand it, then the defensive walls will come down. But you're right, Brooke. We usually take it on and say, oh, my God, you're being so defensive right now. And now it's really difficult to decide who's being defensive. Am I being defensive? Because I'm all plugged in now and I want to make you pay and I want to blame you for now. My upset emotions, probably right?

Or you're like, I learned about defensiveness in the Better Love Club, so now I see it all the time, and now I'm going to tell you every time you're being defensive. Well, that's not really helpful. You know, that just kind of makes a person either want to shut down or maybe be more defensive.

I would say this is going to be a great test for you to be genuine and ask to be invited in. As Stacy just shared. Look at the difference between what Brooke just said. Like, you're just being a total ass right now. You know, here you are being defensive. You know the playbook. You open the dictionary and there's your picture. Well, that's one way to do it. Probably going to heighten and it's going to. Everyone's going to go full arms out. Or Stacy's example and share was like, truly to be asked to be invited in. That's a game changer and very easy as we're having this casual conversation on a podcast. Much more different once our special someone has triggered the bejesus out of us.

I have a great example of this that actually, I was a little shithead yesterday when I came home from my walk with my dog. I noticed Jack hadn't taken the trash out, and I hadn't asked him to. You know, it's not like. It's not like he didn't. You know, he didn't remember it was the day of the week that we put the trash out instead of saying nothing. Cause I did it myself. And I wasn't mad, but I just was, like, a little annoyed. Like, why didn't he do it? I had the dog and all the stuff on my hands, and so I said I thought this would be a good entrance. You're really.

If you're not watching this video, like, what the fuck?

I couldn't forgive myself for this all night long, because I was. What? I said, wow, you're really in your fuck it mode, aren't you? He was like, what?

Good evening to you?

Yeah. And then I said what I meant. And then he was so genuine and nice and tried to, like, explain to me why I was feeling overwhelmed, like, in a very nice, gentle way. And I was like, I don't need you to diagnose me. And then I was like, I couldn't forgive myself. All night long, I kept saying sorry. And he's like, you know, you were just grumpy. It's okay. Like, we're all grumpy sometimes. And I was like. I felt like someone else took control of my voice. I don't even know how that happened. Like, I'm in shock about my own self. But I'm sharing this to let you know that. Yeah, sometimes I act like that. Also, I woke up and I had. It was my time of the month today, so I'm blaming it on my hormones, you know?

Well, bottom line, listener, the three of us are hot messes making, just like you. So we don't.

But also, I'm sharing this to say, like, that was a good example of where I was. I was the one being defensive. But I was saying he was. Or like, he was doing something when it was all me. And he took the high road and helped me figure it and said, you're probably feeling this way. You know, you had the dog. That was a lot to handle all at one time. She's a puppy running all over the place. You're trying to get the. Like, I see why you were kind of flustered by that. But he could have come at me and said, what? What the fuck are you talking about? You know? But he didn't. He just. He was very compassionate, and I'm very lucky that that happened.

Right?

You want the trash out? You take the trash out.

Exactly.

Like, there's Lots of ways I could go. And it really is on those slippery moments and. And we're all gonna have them. We all are gonna have shaky moments where our knees start to quiver and our armpits get a little spun up. Ironically, the more I'm trying to avoid something or the more attached I am to something, the more likely I'm gonna get defensive. A lot of couples struggle with this when they're putting on an event or something, and everybody's attached to how it goes and what happens and how it's set up. As we spin up, we get more and more agitated and frustrated, and then we start acting it. Defensiveness. We can get really snarky and pushy, or if we feel emotionally overwhelmed because of the kids, the dog, the political.

Climate, job finance, business, I'm worried I'm going to get fired next week.

We are likely to get exceptionally defensive and flippant or sarcastic because we do take it out on our person. Remember, this is such a baseline core principle. If we don't know how to express the emotions that we're feeling, emotion comes in waves, and it can be a lack of. Of feelings all at once. And we're going to feel it in a nanosecond. We're not going to understand the complexity of all of the emotion I'm feeling until I sit with it and break it down into its components. And then we start to understand there's a little fear, there's some sadness, there's some frustration, and a little spice of rebellion, right? Like, okay, that's what's going on with me. But I'm not going to know that on the front side, I'm going to feel it. And if I don't have the skills and the technique to know, okay, whoa, that's a lot. I just need to pause and kind of sit with myself for a minute. Then my only other option is to act it out. And this is why defensiveness plays out so commonly and so consistently in our relationships. I don't really know that I need to regulate myself in this way. I feel the feelings, I quickly make sense of the feelings, and then I act out the feelings with a great story instead of realizing, okay, that's me again, saying, hello, do you know what's going on over here? I really have no clue. Do you know what's going on over here? No, you don't, do you?

I. And regulating your emotions doesn't mean stuffing everything down and never sharing anything bad either, because that can be something that a lot of men, especially do, who they're like, well, I tried sharing it one time. It went terribly. So I'm never going to share anything again. That is how you get to the place where it all explodes because you can't hold it in any longer. So that's not a good way either. A real time example about the trash would have been thinking about what I was going to say before it came out of my mouth and being like, that's a silly thing to say. Why would I even say that? And asking myself, why am I feeling frustrated? And then having that conversation internally and then maybe sharing after the fact, but it's not. Going through all of that before having any kind of thought in your head of working it out with yourself before you figure out if it's a valuable thing that you can add to your relationship rather than tearing it down a little by letting it out.

And the reason why you want to be very aware of this is, yeah, number one, we want to prevent, you know, taking it out on someone as much as we possibly can. And the reason why is because it is going to compromise the emotional safety in the relationship. The impact that that has over time creates a disrespect and a distrust, which compromises the emotional safety. At some point in time, you just kind of give up and say, all right, do it your way. Do whatever you want to do. Have it your way. I won't fight you anymore on this. And when we're highly defensive and rigid, which is what defensiveness is, I'm rigid. I'm not flexible to see and understand myself. I'm not flexible enough to try and even attempt to understand the other side. I want to push my agenda. What I feel I need to do right now, I want to shut it down or avoid it or attack in order to feel better. So I say or blame you. That's going to help me manage these emotions. It never does. It always escalates them. This is how we create our own suffering. And then that safety to come back around to the conversation, to actually pursue the goal of understanding now has even been thwarted.

Well, use your balloon analogy. I think this is really good here.

I was just going to say the same thing.

Every interaction that I have with someone that goes well creates like an inflation, or shall we say, a breath into a latex balloon. And slowly but surely that balloon inflates, representing increased emotional safety between us. And the more emotional safety I have, the more vulnerable I can be. Ironically, too, the more courageous I can be in looking at myself, because I don't feel like you're gonna judge me, attack me, blame me, et cetera. So every round that we do where we don't take our emotions out on each other, I add a breath of air into the latex balloon, and it becomes what we call a mature inflated balloon, where what I need to do now is just protect what it is I know we have. And it only takes one moment of defensiveness to take this out on you. And it's like once a latex balloon is inflated and I'm holding it, one prick of defensiveness is like letting go of that protection of that latex balloon and all the air comes out. It takes far more moments of adding air to the emotional safety or experiences into the emotional safety, and it can all be compromised in a nanosecond. With defensiveness, I can deflate it, and then I'm back to blowing it up. It's not that all is lost. It's just it takes far more intention to inflate it than it does to act out defensively and deflate it. It's important that we understand that, okay, we could be talking about trust here, but trust is emotional safety to say what I need to say and to actually have the belief and the confidence in myself and you that we can have a productive conversation. If that's the case, then we know we have emotional safety that's present in our relationship. If I avoid conversations altogether, if I roll my eyes and would rather do anything else rather than talk with my person, then that highlights you don't have emotional safety present in your relationship. And that's the first thing that you need to focus on building. And if you want some help and information on how to do that, well, then we have lots of resources for you. Over@staceybartley.com it's important that we learn how to build emotional safety, because at the core of it, defensiveness absolutely deflates it in a nanosecond. And then it takes effort and intention and skill in order to build up that emotional safety to where we can have the conversations that we need to have.

I just want to add a quick caveat to anyone who wants to learn more about emotional safety. You can listen to episode 129.

Very nice. Three common ones. We've talked about a lot of them today. On the episode, all three of us have revealed our own defensive mechanisms. We have.

What do you mean?

I didn't.

I don't have any.

The three most common are the justifier. That's not what I meant.

Okay.

I'm looking at intent versus impact, so I justify Everything I'm doing, I always have a great story. There's always an excuse for doing or not doing everything that I'm doing. And in the Justifier too. I can spin this story back on you really fast. Well, you meant this, didn't you? I know you did. Don't try and tell me different. That and what, what is the person that's both being the justifier and the person that's hearing is going to do? Probably stop talking, probably try and get out of the situation. So the reason why we have defensiveness to begin with, remember, is I'm trying to shut down, manage or control uncomfortable emotions that I'm having as a human being. That's why it happens and that's why often it's very unconscious as well. And then there's the person who does. Well, you do it too well. Okay, don't blame me. Don't point fingers over here. I can name 10 other times when you've done it and just think about that logically for a minute. It Right, so big deal. It's just a great way to deflect what is currently playing out right now by saying, well, you did it too. Yeah, I'm sure I did, but this is what we're talking about right now. We wouldn't think to say that if somebody was coming at us like that, it would probably escalate to the next level. I sure, I'm sure I have. Yeah. And I want you to see that when we're dealing with defensiveness, the more I can step into it and own it, the easier we can navigate through it.

Well, I was just gonna say, like, if you really think about that for a second, the reason why I wanna deflect and get it all over Jack too, is because it's of shame. It's not necessarily shame that he's putting on me, it's shame I'm putting on myself. But I'm seeing myself in that situation as a bad person or a bad partner. If we could just let that go, there would be no reason for defensiveness. You know, it all boils down to feeling like a good person wouldn't have that behavior. So that can't possibly be me. Well, no, we're all mess making machines. We're all human, we're all going to make mistakes. It's that perfectionist mindset where you, you can't do that behavior and then also be a good partner that gets us into these sticky situations in the first place there.

And then there's the martyr. I'm always the bad person here. I'm the one that always does it wrong. I'm the one that can't figure it out. What's happening is I'm actually refusing the looking at my part in anything. And so I'm trying to avoid that by just taking responsibility for everything instead. And that's really what taking things personal is. I'm taking it all on myself so that I can get myself out of this uncomfortable situation sooner rather than later. I want to stop it right now. It's uncomfortable. I want it to end.

I'm just having the flashback. I just shared the story with you, both of you, a couple days ago. You can even have defensive if knowing that what you hold yourself in such high regard and heaven forbid if you would have made a mistake. So I'll make this really quick to the listener, but I was in Costco. I love Costco. I'm not really a shopper, but I do love Costco. Maybe Costco wants to sponsor our show. I had a 50 gift certificate. I was really excited. So I planning what I was going to spend. I got in my car and put it carefully in my pocket. And Tom does not lose things. Tom is a detail guy. I don't ever lose anything. My shopping had all figured out up to the check stand, reached in my pocket. That gift certificate is not. I checked about 27 times, homie. So many pockets you can check. Not there. So then I start sweating because Tom doesn't lose things. Like, I gotta come clean with stick, you know, I mean, like so you can put so much pressure on yourself. So I said, oh, whatever. And I just dealt with it. I get out to my car, it was a little bit warm. I'm sweating profusely, thinking, hot mess, hot mess. I'm thinking, this is really pissing me off. Like, where did it go? You know, like, who took it? Who took it? Did it just someone come into my pocket and grab it out of there? Then I said, well, maybe someone else needs it more.

Like, no, damn it.

Like, I wanted that, you know? And so I said, I'm going back in. I'm gonna look for it.

And I was just gonna say, God forbid somebody wasn't with you. I mean, that would have been a disaster.

Oh, that would have been definitely.

You would have been like, you took it, I'm sure.

Where is it? I know I gave it to you.

Come on. You lost it.

Like so anyway.

But you can.

Like, this can all be created within yourself. So thankfully I retraced my steps and I guess the Costco gods knew That I couldn't take that because that would have just demolished me for the day. And I did find it. But I'm just saying, like, I was getting ready to defend what it is that I thought I was going to have to deal with within my own self. I mean, because I hold myself in really hard regards in some of these places. I'm thinking, damn, Tom, just maybe someone else needed to let it go. But no, I mean, I had. I was. I know I'm going back in that store and I'm gonna find it. And I retraced my steps identically and damn if I didn't find it, which I was very thankful for. But like I said, I mean, I came home exhausted, you know, I felt like I'd done like a 10, 10 mile run just getting that damn certificate, you know, I mean, so you can create this within yourself before you even interact with your special someone. If that was very real and only like two days ago.

Yeah, well, and then think about coming home in that space. And then, you know, somebody else is defensive because they've also had a challenging. And now we have. You know, it's almost like we can go cue the shit show and we're all taking it out on insult. Brene Brown has a technique that she has shared many times about the scale, right, of emotional capacity. She doesn't call it emotional capacity, we call it emotional capacity. But you know, you're coming home at the end of the day and it's like a scale of 1 to 10. Like, where are you? You know, I had a great day. You know, I'm an eight. I've got this right. I've got all kinds of ability to support, to help, to contribute in. I'm a two. It's been a hell of a day.

If I wouldn't have find that certificate, I'd have been negative.

Yeah, I have a good test for this. If you are wondering what your emotional capacity is, just imagine yourself in the current moment getting your belt loop stuck on a door handle. If that would make you start seeing sobbing, then you're probably at a 1.

You actually had your belt loops hung up on a doorknob.

That's never happened to you before. Oh, my God. That's happened to me so many times where it's just like that moment where you're just like at your wit's end. Like, maybe you dropped a, like a jar of jelly on the floor. You clean that up, you're like, oh, my God, this day is really getting off to a bad start. You turn around, you open up the pantry, and then you try to walk away, and you're stuck to the door. And it's just like the most overwhelming thing that's ever happened. Sometimes it's no big deal. That' when you know you're probably at an 8. Other times, it's like the straw that broke the camel's back and you maybe will start crying.

Right.

It's just that feeling of being, like, so overstimulated, you know, like you cannot handle another thing going wrong. But when you're so keyed up like that, then you spill your coffee.

I have this voice saying, okay, stay. So what happens when I know that I'm a one or a three? And. Yeah, you're right. So this is where we need to do an emotional pushup. And I hope from listening to this episode that it'll take heart in what we're saying, that it's. It's okay to get defensive. It's going to happen, right? Nine times out of 10, you're going to get defensive. It's what we do when we have a lot of emotions come up that we don't know what to do with. So the next best thing to do is to say that if you're aware that you're overwhelmed, if you're aware that you've had too much, you can't take.

In anymore, you've just lost your Costco.

Certificate, then say so ironically. That's going to anchor you in the reality of what's happening right now. And then from there, you can ask for anything that you feel like you need to do. You can say, I need to pause and go. Go for a walk or listen to some music or journal, or more times than not, what we need is just a moment to ourselves so that we can process and understand what it is we are thinking and feeling. And if we would do a better job of being proactive with that, we would act out less defensively in those moments. So I'm kind of a hot mess right now. That's my personal favorite. I need some time to myself. There are times where I'll come home and say to Tom, this right here, meaning me, is not a safe place to be. This is caution tape right now. So guess what? I'm going to go for a walk and spend some time with myself, and then I'll let you know when it's safe to approach again. Awesome. I would much rather do that. Then come in and try and pretend like everything is okay. And then me overreact and get defensive anyway. I pretend like everything is okay when it's not okay. I don't disclose that I'm struggling, that I'm overwhelmed, that I've had a challenging day. And so what will resume after that is probably some defensive behavior because I've had enough. I maxed out. I can't do anymore. And it's okay to have any and all of those experiences as long as we own it. That's the difference maker. And that's what we call an emotional pushup. It's the pause. It's the awareness of where I'm at and what I'm feeling. And even if I kind of lose it for a minute and I get defensive, I can retract and say, whoa, okay, I'm getting defensive. I'm not fit for conversation. Let me go figure out what's going on with me and then I'll come and get you when I'm ready to share. That's a beautiful emotional push up. So it's not about doing it perfect. It's about acknowledging what is. It's about taking responsibility for where you are and then declaring what it is you need in order to manage it. Help me understand how I hurt you, even if it wasn't your intent, is a really great skill. When somebody maybe is defensive and coming at you. Whoa, whoa, hold on. Let me understand where you're coming from. Let's just work through this. Those are things that need to happen in everything. The intent here is everything needs to slow down. Because if you're paying attention to the experiences that you've had in the past, when defensiveness starts to really play a role, everything is moving exceptionally fast and is exceptionally escalated. Trying to get the hell out of here. Well, I just spun up and probably what I need is to go the other direction. Take a big breath, exhale, declare where you are, and then go think about what it is you need to say in order to feel a little bit better. Right. Sometimes we don't even need to include anybody else. Something that I can do and take care of within myself. Sometimes it's helpful to have a dialogue. It's helpful to have someone share. And my benchmark on that with defensiveness is it's important for me to take responsibility for myself. Step one, Step two. If it's something that's going to impact the way that I show up with you, I. E. Another person, then I need to lay it on the table and talk about it. If it's something that's not going to impact how I show up with somebody else, and I just need a remedy on my own, then so be it. I don't need to put it on the table for discussion. I just need to take care of me. And I hope that that's a distinguishing factor to help you with that. So, in a nutshell, defensiveness is the thing that's usually afoot. It takes us to places and answers the question of how did we get here? Probably defensiveness. Defensiveness that then sacrifices the emotional safety to come back around and pursue that path of understanding.

So are there some kind of benchmarks that. Because, correct me if I'm wrong, this is hard for us to. To realize when this is taking place. So are there some things we can kind of watch for that allow us to real guess? We are in a very defensive pattern right here.

Anytime you're probably emotionally spinning up, you're defensive. You should use that one.

Okay.

And then your next step needs to be, how can I slow this down? Because if I perpetuated by saying and doing and behaving and thinking that if I spin up fast enough, I'm going to get ahead of it or fix it. You're going to get more and more and more defensive. You're going to act out more and more and more and more. So you've got to slow down. You've got to go the way other. Other way, which can be very counterintuitive. And I talk about it like, it's easy. It makes logical sense. It's a very simple process. It's a very simple skill. But then doing it when emotion is in motion is a whole nother thing. Like, that's really challenging. That's really, really difficult. You and I were just sitting at the baked and brewed, and I said, don't cross this. There's a divide there. It's going to take off the bottom of the oil pan. No, no, no.

Yeah, that's right.

No, no, no, it's not. That's not the truth. And I said, no, I promise you, there, There. There is something there.

Please me to go forward. And I, I still chose to go forward. I didn't.

I finally just said, okay, go ahead and go forward. And I'm literally like, I've got my eyes and. And hands over my face. Like, okay, here we go. I wonder how bad this is going to be, because I realized I couldn't talk him out of it. And sure enough, he hit was.

It was. It was.

Yeah. It was like, oh, okay. And he did a really great job.

Of, you know, that was my bad. I didn't see what Stacy Was seeing. And it wasn't conveyed to me in a way that I understood why she was saying don'. Way I was looking at. It's just classic. Classic example. You mean we're seeing different things? We are. And so the way I process, there was an. There was a parking stopper that I was not aware of. I was just focusing on. I saw two stoppers in front of me on the other side. I said, well, I can get through those two, no problem. Well, there was a stopper in front of me that was totally not visible to me. It was visible to Stacy. Hence, I went over it very, very gently, though, thankfully.

And just so you know, he came clean and said, I'm sorry. I should have listened. But, you know, in those moments where we think we're so certain we're so right, difficult for us to get off our high horse and stop being defensive enough, thinking that we've got it all figured out and actually take in information from others, that's sometimes really, really hard because we get impatient. Okay, can you get in touch listener, with that emotion that's spinning up when you're thinking somebody's giving you advice you don't want?

Or in this case, you got to also realize, I mean, station our whole life is relationship, guys. But it was clearly she was saying something and sharing in a way that I just didn't process, because if she would have said, babe, there's something in front of you in addition to what you're seeing there. I said, okay, I got it. I just. Well, you don't understand my skill set. I can clearly go through those two that I'm seeing. Like, I got this. So, you know, I mean, many times it's not because you're trying to get the other person. It's just you're just not clearly on the same page. That's all.

That in that exact instance, you guys were literally seeing a different movie.

Totally.

You know, Exactly. It's the physical representation of the movie framework. You guys were just seeing things from different angles. And so dad didn't think there was anything in front of him. And mom, too, could clearly see that there was something.

And we were only sitting in the same front seat, my drive and Stacy in the passenger. So we're not, like, we're too far away. Can show you even that close. Can be that off between your movie, my movie, and Stacy's movie. But like Brooke said, in real physical, we're not. I mean, that's easy when we get into the emotional differences on the internal movie. Now that. That's a Super bowl, but this is just clearly over a freaking parking stop that I couldn't see. And I just dismissed it. I got this. Well, I guess I didn't. As soon as I went over, I said, oh, I don't got this. Anyway, thank God that didn't happen.

So let's talk about how this applies to you. You know, if you're single and dating, if you get defensive on a date, you miss the chance to truly be seen and to truly see another. It's amazing how we can sit down with a stranger and automatically we can size them up in a hot, nanosecond kind of, like, conversation Tom and I were just having about the divide and the barking lot. We can think that they are this and they are that and they'll never do this and they'll never do that. Well, that's a defensive posture. And very often when I'm in a defensive posture, I'm sucking all the air out of the room, right? I am truly just coming in like I know it all, like I've got it all figured out. And so open up a little bit. We don't need to be so guarded and so rigid. We could truly explore and understand some genuine curiosity what another person is and who they are. Regardless of whether we decide to be romantically engaged in the future, space and time or not, always getting to know and understand somebody else's story is going to help us expand. It confirms what it is we know as human beings, or it expands us to ideas and perspectives that we we can't see or understand ourselves. So either way you slice it, get to know the person that you've decided to sit down with and look at them in the eye and get curious about who they are and the story with where they come from. The role of curiosity here versus control when you're building something new can make us feel very defensive. And I'm going to invite you to let the defenses down a little bit and truly explore the that's sitting across from you. For those of you who are in the space of separation and we're in limbo and we're not quite sure where we're going, I want you to know defensiveness keeps the door slammed shut. If I'm defensive every time my partner wants to explore a new topic or a new conversation with me or bring up something from the past that they're trying to understand or something that didn't work for them, if I'm defensive, then I'm going to shut that door. And we're not going to make any progress forward towards the goal of understanding. And when every conversation feels like a landmine, dropping the armor is your first peace offering to settle in and say, you know what? I now I'm in a place where I'm willing to just listen. Like, try that. Use this time apart to practice self regulation and not rehearse your rebuttal, your war path, your war cry, all the places and spaces where you've been wronged and the culprit and to blame. Because I'm going to tell you right now, that's only going to keep you in a place of defensiveness and there's no way you're going to be able to build emotional safety from that perspective. For couples trying to save their marriage, you're probably defending who you used to be, not who you want to become. You're missing things of the past that somehow got lost along the way in your relationship. Instead of becoming defensive, I want you to know that you can just simply ask for what it is you need to go for when you the things that you would like to create and see happen now. Because defensiveness will block your growth and vulnerability is a superpower that will always unlock new potential and possibilities and new beginnings. I encourage you to drop the line that's not what I meant and replace it with help me understand more about what you're saying because it's going to take us through the conversation instead of you trying to explain and justify with another great story that creates the eye roll where somebody stops listening. It really is a defensive place that we go. If this episode by the chance, made you squirm in a good way just a little bit, well then I've got something that will help you keep going. I'm going to encourage you to grab your copy of the Space and Separation Communication Playbook. It includes the Self Assessment quiz to identify your Go to defensive pattern and exactly what to say and do instead. The link is right here in this episode. Description Go get it. You'll be so glad that you did. Also, if you would like to explore more helpful resources in working with me, I have many ways you can do this by simply visiting Stacy Bartley Our little Follow the Fun today. Well, and it was kind of a quasi defensive thing, right? So I coined this the Emergency Snack for the Soul. Because who doesn't need a snack pack when your blood sugar drops? Okay, so a soul snack pack menu might be very quick self soothing action that you can do in like two to five minutes. So some examples are listen to your favorite song, drink something warm or something bubbly, do a ten second shimmy dance in place or even send yourself a voice note pep talk. These are all great things that you can have pre canned in your little snack pack fanny pack so that when your emotional blood sugar dips, you've got something to kind of help you through it. Our song for today is Christina Aguilera's With Great Big World, a song that says say something. And the song is a beautiful ballad that basically says, I need you to say something because I'm starting to give up on you. And it also continues, I'm sorry that I could not get to you. And that's often how it fills in our places of defensiveness. Like I can't seem to get through to you. I can't seem to get you to see and understand where I'm coming from because the defensiveness is creating this wall that we can't seem to permeate between us. So this is, in my humble opinion, a beautiful song with a beautiful message that says please, please say something that will help me drop my guard so that you and I can actually see a way through here. You can listen to this week's song along with our entire relationship playlist by going to our website podcast page or searching it up on Spotify by searching Love Shack Live playlist. All right, Defensiveness, it's a thing. It's a bigger thing than we give credit to it. We justify our defensiveness. Slow down. And if you have to listen to this podcast episode a couple of times, please do so because it's important. We don't want to armor up so much as we want to find a way forward. And if we're going to do that, then we got to slow down and get a little more conscious about what it is we're doing and saying along the way. We'll see you next week, same time, same place. Ready to practice what actually works. Thank you so much for being with us.

All right, it's time to leave the Love Shack. But before, before we part ways, we want you to know our door is always open and we'll leave the porch light on. Ready to welcome you back whenever you need a dose of relationship wisdom. For more resources and tools, Visit us at loveshacklive.com to dive deeper into the topics we've explored and find additional support for your relationship journey. Stay connected by subscribing to our podcast. Thank you for being part of our Love Shack Live community.

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