5 Expert Ways To Move Past Manipulation In Your Relationship

Hey, thanks for coming. Welcome to the Love Shack.

Hey, welcome to the Love Shack. It's a little place where we get to get together and explore fresh perspectives, eavesdrop on juicy conversations, and uncover the mysteries that nobody talks about, but absolutely influence our relationships. If you are struggling in your marriage, just starting out in a new relationship, or are single and looking to do better next time, this show is for you. My name is Stacey Bartley and I'm here with my co host and lover, Tom. Together for the past decade, we have been teaching and loving on people from around the world with the sole purpose of helping individuals and couples to love more and fear less in their relationships, both with themselves and others.

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Hey, and if let me just take a moment right here before we dive on our topic for the day. Hey, if you've shared this podcast or this episode on the on the show, regardless of where you're consuming this content and shared it with somebody, passed it along because you found value in it as well, just want to say thank you for that. We are here, like Tom said, to serve and to help support this conversation of relationships. And there's really not too many places where you can go. So thank you for helping us spread the word. Thank you for Helping us create more ease around this conversation of relationships and then help us get better at it, right? That's really the end goal here. So today, on that note, we are going to be diving into how to move past manipulation in your relationship. Now, I know the word manipulation is kind of loaded.

Everyone take a big exhale, right?

And I don't want you to run, Right? Just hang with me for a minute. We promise we're going to gently ease ourselves into this conversation, but there's a truth here that we've got to uncover. And this is, you know, just take a breath. It's going to be okay. Because what we want to share with you is that at the core of it all, we as human beings are manipulators. Now, I know you're probably grabbing your chest right now going, oh, my gosh, I don't do that. You know, I certainly did before I started to really understand manipulation and how it works. But the reality is, we all do it. Not because we're not a human beings, not because we're horrible heathens, but because this is what we've been taught and practiced for years. The reality is, we have all been taught the skills and have been encouraged to master the art of manipulation. As you grow into adulthood, you probably learn the lessons and practice the lessons of manipulation from. Yes. Well, intending loved ones. But have you ever heard the words, hey, don't feel that way. That's not okay. Or, what are you doing? You can't think that. Or, that's not okay. That's inappropriate. Go to your room. Well, you're experiencing the teachings and the lessons of manipulation. Most of us learned that it was actually inappropriate for us to speak our thoughts and our feelings. I mean, come on, you got to relate to some of this, right? All of us have places where we said something silly as a kid, right? I remember saying to my mom, gosh, that neighbor, I love her a lot, but she's really fat. My mom going, oh, my gosh, don't say that. Right? And I'm thinking to myself as a kid, like, I mean, but she's fat. I mean, like, I'm not supposed to say that. And I remember feeling confused. So if you relate to any of these, today we're going to dive into this conversation of manipulation. So. So stay tuned. It's going to be a juicy one. We'll be right back.

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So welcome back. We are about ready to dive into a juicy conversation on manipulation. And believe it or not, manipulation is a huge part of what it is we've been taught to do in our society when we feel uncomfortable or when we're not quite sure how to talk about certain topics. So I'd said in the beginning, it's time that we uncover the truth and maybe look at we as human beings all manipulate. And I know that that's really difficult for us to say and it's really difficult for us to take in and explore. But if you will, it will set you free. It will help you understand so much about what it is we experience in our relationships and in our lives and then we can start keep working at it.

Yeah. And you know that that's. I would say that. Would you, Mrs. Bartlett? That's a loaded word. So you know, again, take a pause and realize this is not any kind of an accusation type of a, of an episode really anything we do. It's simply to help us understand being observant. Like, oh my gosh, I've never looked at it this way and realize it's none of our faults because it's like Stacy Sherp. It's typically what's been modeled to us and it let's Be honest, it's very effective. I wouldn't say the result is. Is really the optimum, you know, but so, meaning don't, don't think, oh my gosh, how. How could I be so silly or not maybe not even just take some pressure off and realize we're pointing and sharing this with you. Because when we work with our private clients, this is a huge place of aha. So. So come from a place of aha. That, you know, real true curiosity. Like, my gosh, I never realized that this was going on.

Yeah. And that's our goal for this episode, is for you to see manipulation in all its many forms and to understand, yes, we understand it so that we don't have people manipulating us, but we also want to be mindful of it so that we can be unlearning, not doing it to others. And this is at the core and the heart of all of our fights, all of our upsets, all of the things that in relationships we talk about that don't go well, and we don't know what else to do. While you don't know what else to do, because what you've been taught actually creates a fight. It creates a conflict. It creates exactly the outcome that we're not looking for. And until we know what to do differently, we will continue to do what we know. So let's begin this conversation today. And let me just ask, and I want you to follow along, listeners here, and Eric, our engineer, I'm going to personally invite you into this conversation because it's valuable. Coming at it from fresh eyes is exactly what it is we need as.

Long as you don't manipulate me to.

Join in the conversation. Well said.

You have the permission to chime in or not. But what comes up for you when you think about manipulation? Like, where do you go?

Yeah, that's a tough one. Because, you know, in relationships, a lot of things can feel like manipulation, even when they're not intended to be that way. You know, just somebody being kind of grumpy when, you know, you don't respond in the way that. That they're thinking that you should. Feels can feel like manipulation because you don't want to make your partner grumpy, you know?

Yeah. Well, isn't it interesting that how your partner shows up, we automatically go to a place where I should have known better. Yeah, I should have seen that coming. And is that really a reality? Like. Like can we know how our partner's feeling or how they're going to interpret what it is I say or lay on the table. And yet we take full emotional responsibility for that, don't we?

Yeah. And I would add that from the kind of. The other side of the. Of the coin, so to speak, manipulation would be certainly looking to steer something with. Let's just be honest with. With some bias, meaning it would be the opposite of objectivity. Right. I mean, you know, let's go to.

The Webster, shall we? Let's go to the Webster, the good old Webster. Let's define manipulation so that we can all begin to wrap our heads around this. The meaning in the Webster is going to be the action of influencing or controlling someone or spinning something to your advantage, often without anyone knowing, even. Sometimes even you.

Well, there you go.

Now, based on this meaning, you may find yourself right now saying, I don't do that. I swear I don't do that. And we often think of manipulation as something that's premeditated. And yes, there are those humans out there that do premeditation on manipulation, but in the world of psychology, the world that I come from, we call those psychopaths. And I need you to understand that 99.9% of the time, we're not psychopaths. And that manipulation happens as a reaction to a feeling that is uncomfortable. And we don't know what else to do. So we leverage and we manipulate. This is why we all do it. We don't intentionally do it. It becomes a means and a way for us to try and manage. Or as Eric, you had just suggested, I didn't want to manipulate, but, gosh, you're kind of attacking me right now. And I'm feeling guilty and shameful because I didn't know, and I didn't know what else was coming, and I didn't know how you really felt. So now that you're attacking me, what am I going to do? I'm probably going to spin into my own version of manipulation and leverage because I don't know what else to do. And we jockey for this place of wanting to. Right. Alleviate the feelings that are uncomfortable. And I don't know what else to do. So I want us all to wrap our heads around what I just said. So I'm going to invite you to imagine for a moment with me that you've just arrived home and a loved one is standing there at the door. And instead of greeting you, they launch into blaming you for something. It could be anything. It's usually the simple stuff that gets us tripped up. Tripped up. So they're blaming you for something and you don't feel like you did it. And if you did do it, you don't feel that what you did was wrong, but they sure do. What are the thoughts and feelings that begin to fire off inside of you and that imagination?

I would say, like, you know, damn. Like, really? Yeah. I mean, like, how am I supposed to be. How am I responsible for this?

Yeah, hold on a minute. And Eric, where do you go?

Like, yeah, no, I. I agree. I agree with Tom's assessment there. It's like, really? This is.

How am I related to any of this?

Exactly. How is this my fault?

Yeah. And your head kind of starts to reel and all of us kind of know this experience of, like, time slowing down, like, what is going on here? Like, now back it up a minute, because I don't really understand what's. What's happening. Why do you think this is my fault? I didn't do it? Or if I did do it, I didn't intend for it to unfold like this. Right. And. And then think about what it is you typically do in these scenarios. What do you typically do? Where do you go?

Probably kind of bite back with maybe not quite the objectivity that I was just sharing. That's probably most important.

Maybe.

Maybe a little irritant, you know, like. Like, you know, what. What's your problem?

Yeah. And then. And then what do we do? We typically launch into trying to explain, like, how you're off base and I didn't do it and I didn't know you'd go there and holy cow, hold on a minute. Right.

So defense mechanism.

We would flip right into a defense mechanism. And the reason why we do that, of course we would do that, because we're trying to advocate for the fact that we're trying to explain the experience that you're having personally and internally that, look, I didn't know, and if I did do it, I didn't intend. And you've got to see this. And what happens is I become enrolled in proving my point, don't I?

Sure.

Heck, yeah. I mean, I sure do. And so I'm going to gather evidence at this point in time. I'm going to say, and we're going to talk about the circumstances. We're going to talk about. Right. Why my partner is going to talk about why I think you did it and you're responsible and this was your intention. And I know that you were just trying to do it because you were pissed about last night. And. And I would go, no, I swear, I swear that is not any. I just did it because, you know, I was thinking it was a good idea or it would help out or I didn't think about it at all actually. And oh, you're lying. I mean, so this goes back and forth as we gather evidence and by the way, I shared this with my girlfriend or my guy friend and he said that this was completely inappropriate, right? And off the conversation goes as we prove and what we're trying to do in this moment, by the way, you guys, just to boil it all down, we're trying to get validation for my perspective. I'm trying to get you to agree with me and I'm not going to stop until you do agree with me and you see it from my lens. And so there we are, off to the races. And this can last 20 seconds and this can last months and years, this fight. I have a family member that used to be in a relationship where they would literally fight through the night, they would refuse to sleep and they would continue the fight until one or the other just simply got exhausted or one caved and agreed. That's where it typically goes. And at the core of all of this is manipulation. So what is manipulation at its heart? At the heart of it all manipulation is. I pause because this is going to be big. The core of it all manipulation is do what I say, you will get what you want. So this is where we begin to leverage, right? And try and step into a place where we can re grapple, we can feel validation and we can feel a sense of ourselves again. And this is what we're grappling with.

Makes me think and I swear this just came into my mind. Little Johnny, two years old, shopping at the grocery store in the line and wants something out of the, you know, the. Inevitably they put all those treats right there before you get to the cashier. And little Johnny wants one of those and mom says no, Little Johnny has a full on meltdown. And finally mom gives little Johnny what Johnny wants so we can tidy that deal up till we get out of the store. Like, I mean, I get it. Like I've had one. I've, you know, I've had, I've experienced full on meltdown with my children and that's not a fun place to be.

I agree. I totally agree. So, so do what I say, you'll get what you want. Let's explore this and then we'll come back to how it plays out in our relationships because it's historically in everything. Let's point this out. Okay. How about work? How does. Do what I say, you'll get what you Want apply to our work?

Well, I would say right off. I mean, unfortunately, that's probably many times when people work for somebody or a company, that's kind of probably the normal basis of how you earn that paycheck every week.

You do what I say, you're going to get a paycheck.

Yeah.

How about kids?

Well, I just shared one.

You did share. You do what I say as a parent, you'll get what you want, bring.

Those good grades home and you get X.

Yes. Or hey, I'll let you take the car on Saturday night if you do X right. Hey, if you can pull it together and stop your crying, I'll get you that treatment. You know, it's. It's okay. How about education? The teacher, the graduation, the moving forward, the learning? You do this, you'll get your certificate, right? You behave, you're going to get a passing grade. I'll help you. How about judges? It's on our. It's in our judge system, it's in our legal system. You do what I say will let you go, we'll reduce your fine, we'll set you free. Our politics, right? You do what I say, you get into that power position, I'll support you. I'll give you money to fund that agenda, I'll support your party, I'll give you all kinds of perks, but you got to do what I say. And it even comes down to love. How many of us leverage love? I'll give you sex on Saturday night if you'll fill in the blank. I'll love you and accept you if you'll fill in the blank. We leverage this everywhere. Do what I say, you'll get what you want. And this is frightening for us, but it really is the core. When Tom and I spent five and a half weeks in Italy in 2019, one of my favorite places, amongst all the incredible historic opportunities there in Italy that we were privileged and honored to take in, one of my favorites was a little place called Campo de Fore, which is a plaza down in Rome. And the reason why I loved that is in this plaza There is a 40 foot statue, wouldn't you say? 40?

Yeah.

It's pretty tall and pretty magnificent.

Quite majestic. Yes. You can't help but see it.

And it's a friar in a friar suit looking down at the Catholic church as though it's saying, I've got you. And the caption on the base of the statue is, God gave me a brain, so I will think for myself. And what we learned about this very statue is part of what we need to share with you today. Giordano Bruno was tried for heresy by the Roman Inquisition for charges of denial of several core Catholic doctrines. And the Inquisition found him guilty. And he was burned at the stake right there in the plaza in the 1600s. And so this was honoring the fact that he refused to allow the Catholic Church to do the thinking for him. And he spoke out. And imagine our ancestors watching him burn for speaking his mind, for sharing what he felt, for right doing it his way. And so the reason I bring this up is that really struck me where I thought, of course, it's frightening for us to disclose, for. For us to say what it is we want to say. It's in our DNA. It's in our ancestry. Generation after generation after generation, we have been taught and told that it is so scary to speak your mind, to disclose what you really feel, to ask for what it is you really want. And this game of manipulation is at the core of it, even back in the 1600s, you do what I say, you'll get what you want. Want. And if I'm a king or a queen ruling a country as in the Roman empires, I would give you a place to live, I would give you food, I would give you protection if you do what I say and if you do it my way. But if you begin to think on your own, then I have no choice. We must get rid of you so that we can continue to advocate and support this manipulation that underlines it all by saying, you do what I say, you'll get what you want. Even if I ask you to go to war, you will go and you won't question because I say you get what you want. So let me ask you, out of doing what I say, you get what you want. Manipulation. Which one is the power position? What's the power position?

The power position. The one who has the power. The one who has all the. The knowing. As soon as doubt creeps in.

Wait a minute. Okay, but, but, but which is it wanting something? That's the power position. Or is it the being in charge and saying how this is going to.

This is how this is going to go. There is zero. There's zero mixed understanding there. Right, Exactly.

So essentially, when we go back to, hey, imagine for a moment you being accused of something. We want to find a place of power or validation. So we're seeking to be in the, say, the position of say. And what's the quickest way to get into that power position of being in charge, to say, to be the person in Charge. That's like, hey, hey, hey, whoa, wait a minute. I'm jockeying for that position to say timeout, right? That. That's not okay. What you're saying doesn't work. I want. I'm. I'm really in reality trying to get back into that power position, that validation position. We'll talk about validation in a minute. So I've got to ask the question then. If we see this, if we start to really wrap our heads around this, it's historically in our DNA, it's in our society. This is how we've been raised, this is how we've been educated, right? This is what we grapple with every single day. Do what I say. You've got what you want. And if somebody knows what I want, ooh, they really got some leverage on me, don't they? They can really make it enticing and enroll me into some things that maybe I don't really feel good about, but, ah, you know, after all, it's going to get me what I want. So I gotta ask you, what's the quickest way into the power position? What is it? You probably never thought about this or had somebody ask you this question. I get it. But wrestle with it for a moment. What is quickest way to get into the power position of, say, let's be honest, it's a place we all want to be. It's a place where we feel validated, heard, accepted, appreciated. It's all the things at the core of being a human being we long for. So what is the quickest way there? That's what I'm fighting for. That's what I want you to know. That's what I want to enroll you in. What is it? Where is it? Where do we go? How do I get there? I can boil it down to one word. Any guesses? Anybody? Anybody? Any guesses?

Doubt.

Yeah. It's because you knew the answer.

I knew the answer.

I can get there so quickly. I can step into the power position by doing one thing. Creating doubt in you. I can create doubt in who you are, doubt in how you see it, doubt in where you want to go. Doubt in the very fact that you knew exactly what you were doing, even though you claim you didn't. All I have to do is give a little bit of doubt into what it is you're saying and gather enough evidence and I slip into the power position. You're going to now do what I want you to do. You're going to do what I say, and I'm going to give you a little perk afterwards. I'm going to give you a little something something. I'm going to stop being a jerk. I'm going to stop railroading you. I'm going to stop. Right. Escalating my voice. I'm going to maybe hold your hand, make love to you. Right. Be kind, make you dinner. I'm going to do all of these things if you'll just agree with me, if you'll just do what I say. And this could be stopping something that you're doing that I don't like. And it could be starting to do something that I swear, if you would do it, our problems would be solved. And how do we create doubt then? Becomes the question. And we all do it. How do we create doubt?

Well, there's lots of different ways, Eric.

How do we create doubt? No. Right. It's kind of like interesting.

I would say anything that would question our ability, right. Whether that be a, a, a, a pretty, you know, tough comment, a, A zinger, a verbal zinger. I mean, anything to, to literally make us pause and say, gosh, is that really true?

You can know where certainly hint that maybe the relationship might not have, you know, legs, if you will, might be, you know, not built to last. If, you know, this doesn't go the, the person with the powers way, so to speak, you know.

Yeah. Like, if you do that one more time, one more time, we are done.

Right.

That's the nuclear button. That's like where we, we fire off Chernobyl. That's like our, our nuclear firepower. And if we constantly go there as a leverage point, as a manipulation point, pretty soon the person that you're leveraging stops playing along. They just run out of gas, don't they? Let's just call it. Then we're done. That's not a really great place to go, but it is absolutely one that a lot of us use. I'm out of here. If you don't. X, Y and Z. Yeah, right.

Now, you talked about all these things as manipulation with things being very transactional. But can I ask, is that always a bad thing? Because sometimes you need to get stuff done. You need to get a partner on board with something just to move ahead with something. Right. So sometimes things have to be kind of transactional, right?

I mean.

Or no.

Yes.

Should they never be transactional?

Well, here's the thing. It's all about permission. It's the permission and the space between us to dialogue about these things. You don't have to see it the way I see it, but I can certainly assert myself and ask and advocate for what it is I need and know that you're going to probably do the same, and I need to allow space for that. So instead of leverage and manipulation. Right. What's the solution to that? We're going to dive deeper into that later in our conversation. But here's the thing. Everybody can show up in a powerful place Right. In the same position if we're not playing. Manipulation, the way you see it is just as important as the way I see it. And if you want the privilege and the honor to be in a place where you can say what you need to say. Right. You need to give that to your partner as well. And then we're not manipulating. We're actually both advocating for ourselves and contemplating what everybody has to share about it. And then, yes, it's a transactional where we're trying to solve a problem, but I'm not trying to leverage you into seeing it my way and vice versa. And it's very tricky. Right, Right.

Sometimes you maybe just have to phrase it differently, like, can you do me this favor? You know?

Yeah. Yeah. Would you be willing to do this or support me with X, Y, and Z? Is that something you feel like you could do? But even the asking part of it is difficult for us. Most of us don't know how to boil it down to what it is I'm really wanting to ask for, because this manipulation game we've been taught is so ingrained in us. Okay. That's all we know. All I know to get what I want and to get my needs met, or all I know how to do when I'm feeling pressed or uncomfortable, is to step into this game of do what I say and then I'll give you what you want. And if I. Aside from that, I mean, you tell me, what other strategies have you learned?

Me?

Yeah. Well, any of us, our listeners out there, too, what other strategies have you learned besides playing this game of do what I say, you get what you want.

So I think you know. So to answer Eric's question, which was really good one, most of us don't realize that there are other tools and frameworks that we can learn and become more masterful and still have. And I could not agree with you, Mark. I mean, sometimes, like, can we. Can we change the trajectory of what's happening between me and my partner, Me and my spouse? Me and my husband? Yes, you can. And can it be done without manipulation? Yes, you can. But it's typically nothing we've ever been exposed to. Nor have we practiced.

But we absolutely need to learn. And I want you to know that there's absolutely a way to get through it where everybody can stand in the power position. We don't have to leverage what we want. We can be for everybody getting what they want. But in order to go there, everybody has to be allowed to say what it is they need. Everybody needs to be allowed the permission and space to see it differently. And that's where things get a little tricky. So we're going to answer the question what is the quickest way to create doubt in your partner and give you a few solutions in regards to how you can step out of manipulation and into moving forward quickly right after our break. I've given you a lot to think about, so let's let that kind of simmer. How do you play the game of manipulation? Do what I say. You'll get what you want. We'll be right back.

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Okay. Welcome back. We've been having a juicy conversation about manipulation. And if by chance you're just joining us, manipulation is at the heart of our society. It's what we've been taught, it's what we know to do, and we don't know what else to do. The heart of manipulation is not necessarily premeditated like we think it is. It's usually a reaction to something that I don't know how to solve or something that I'm feeling accused of or attacked on or some emotional experience that I am feeling like. Like I don't know how to handle.

So, yeah, we're going to. We're simply, you know, going to our go to. That's really the only thing we know. Right. I mean, again, we're only going to use what we know. So that's why we're so really, really passionate about this place, you know, with couples in our loving relationships, because it's a huge place that Stacy and I help our private clients through. Oftentimes we don't realize, again, this is. You've got to take the judgment off of your situation and be an observer and realize, my gosh, I never realized this is really what was going on.

Yeah. And the core of manipulation is do what I say, you'll get what you want. And the say, being in the position of saying, directing is the power position. And I can leverage you and the quickest way into the power position. Do what I say, you'll get what you want. Is creating a little bit of doubt. All I have to do is create a little bit of doubt in you. Doubt in how you see it, doubt in where you want to go, doubt in yourself, doubt in what's possible. And as our incredible Eric's Eric added to the conversation, you know, the nuclear button is leveraging the relationship in totality by saying, you don't do this, this relationship is over. That's the epitome of leveraging the situation to get you enrolled in the idea of doing what I say. You're going to get what you want.

And it may not be quite even as bold of that. You could say, you know, oh, it's not, you know, you could just say, I'm not sure if this is going to last.

You know, let's talk about how we create doubt. It's really easy and it's really simple. And as I list these off, you're probably going to go, oh, I do that. Oh. Oh, my gosh, yes, we all do it. It's okay. And we want you to look at this so that we can get better at this game of manipulation. That I can, yes. Make sure that people don't do it to me, of course. But also to make sure and meter yourself so that you don't do it to others. So I create doubt, and that's my quickest path into the power position. And how do I create doubt? All it takes is a little bit of minimizing what you said. I don't even have to say words. It can be like an eyebrow or an eye roll. Like, really? Really? You're gonna go there?

That's simply body language.

Criticizing, diminishing, belittling, threatening. All of these are really simple, easy ways for us to create just. Just a little bit of doubt. And all it takes is a little bit of doubt. And guess what? The minute I get you to question yourself, your perspective, what you said, what you did, how you want to go forward, who you are. Right. What you want to become, I own you. I own you. And we're going to do it. And we need to catch ourselves doing it. I just did it to my youngest son, and let me tell you how it went so that you can really. He gave me a phone call one day, and he says, hey, I know you're probably not going to like what I'm going to do. We've talked about it a thousand times, but I want to join the military. And I went, we're not a military family. You know, we're pretty independent thinkers, and we don't take orders very well. And I mean. And I went, xavier, that's a horrible idea. That's manipulation. I'm trying to create doubt in his decision. Now, this youngest son of mine, you got to know he's come out of the womb this way. He's pretty good at just saying, I've made the decision. And that's that. That's what we call in our body of work, planting your flag. And so he was willing to hear me go on and on and on about all the reasons why I thought the military wasn't a great fit for him as he continued to hold tight to his flag. The decision has been made. And then I caught myself, and I said, oh, Xavier, I'm sorry. You've always been really, really good about making decisions for yourself and your life, and I so acknowledge and appreciate the fact that you do that. What I'm expressing here for me is the fact that that terrifies me as a mother. That terrifies me to think that you're going to put yourself in the situation of being in the military. And I just said, it brings up panic in me. And I'm starting to try and leverage you to not go, to create doubt in you and your decision and where it is you want to be. And as he explained. Right. To try and reassure me, he wants to be a U.S. diplomat. And this is the quickest path that I can get the experience and the know how to take me ultimately where it is I want to go. And he will make a fantastic US Diplomat at some point in time in the history of the world. But right now, as his mother, I'm panicked about the fact that he wants to join the military. And so what did I immediately do? Even knowing what I know and teaching what I teach, I just want you to see how ingrained this is in us. And if I didn't know better, I wouldn't have been able to catch myself to say to him, this is just me. I'm uncomfortable. And all of a sudden, automatically, I slip into, are you sure that's a horrible idea. Is there not some.

We're not.

We're not a military family. Right. And so this is how slippery it is for us. And it's not about not doing it at this stage in the game. It's not. It's about catching yourself doing it. Just like I described. I caught myself trying to minimize him so that I could slip into the power position and I could somehow try and convince and enroll him into not doing this thing that I was sure was a bad idea because it made me feel uncomfortable.

Well, and I think there's a really important distinction there. As Stacy was being so honest with. It wasn't done because, you know, it was done because of Stacy's love for her son and concern for his welfare. So, meaning the point is, many times we'll slip into this and it's not done from a place of malice.

Exactly. And again, I'm going to go back to. Manipulation is not premeditated. Manipulation is a reaction to feelings that we experience that are uncomfortable to us and we don't know what else to do. So we immediately try and create and instill a measure of doubt, because that's what's going to slip us into the power position. Do what I say, you get what you want. I could have taken it, and I would have. In my years prior, I would have. Well, if you're going to join the military, then I'm not going to pay for your health insurance anymore, and I'm not going to Pay for your cell phone bill, and, you know, I'm just not going to talk to you anymore. I could have gone to a place of leveraging, right? As I escalate the situation so that he'll do what I say, I'm going to give him something that he wants. And how many of us doing that? I mean, and that's where, hey, if you don't do what I want to, this. This relationship is over. And all of a sudden somebody's willing to dance through some hoops until they just get exhausted and realize, I can dance through a lot of hoops, but I'm still not getting my needs met, and we're still not happy, and this relationship is still not working out. So you know what? Go ahead, end it. Because I can't do any more than I'm doing. And that's usually where that conversation leads us. Now, as we're talking about manipulation and uncovering all of its little teeny, tiny nuance responses, we've got to also realize and look at the fact that we manipulate ourselves unbelievably. How do we create doubt in ourselves? How do we internally have this dialogue that creates manipulation inside of ourselves? I have all of this dialogue happening, don't I, where I can minimize myself or beat myself up in the hopes that it's going to help motivate me to do that thing I know I need to do, right? Ah, Stacy, for God's sakes, right? You got to shed £10, you know? Come on, you got a pass to the gym. Why aren't you using it? And I'm going to criticize and criticize and criticize and criticize. As if that ever worked. Do you think I'm ever going to make it to the gym from that angle? Probably not. But if I had a friend call me and say, hey, which I do. I'm starting this new class. I'd love for you to come and support me. I'm like, totally there. What time, what day I get to do that. And it becomes about doing something for my benefit still, but supporting somebody else, it creates motivation. And now all of a sudden, I want to do it because it's not coming from a place of belittling or criticizing myself. So this is where we also beat ourselves up. We can manipulate ourselves and enroll ourselves into all kinds of crazy stuff that at the heart of it that we don't want to do and be a part of anyway, right? I mean, think about that for a minute. And this is why I can't criticize or belittle myself or others enough in order to inspire or motivate the outcome or the want that I need. Manipulation is at the core of it all. So I need you to just ask some tough questions, like where are you doing this to yourself? Where are you trying to enroll yourself into some things that, you know don't work for you, but. But it's because you're going to get something that you want. We can try and power ourselves into situations and conversations and relationships that don't really work for us. And we can also do it to the people that we love the most or maybe that we don't love at all, so that we can leverage ourselves into a place where we can finally get what it is we want. This is what we know. This is what we've been taught. And unless we start to really wrap our heads around this and unlearn it, catch will continue to dominate our lives. This is why we fight. This is why we feel disappointed. This is why we criticize, belittle ourselves into a mental health crisis because we don't know how to do anything else. We don't know how to stand up, advocate for ourselves, say what we need to say, own the way I feel, and that the way I feel and the way I see it is good enough. It's okay. And I, you know what? If I want the space and the permission to do that, I need to give that permission to others. Now we're playing a different game. I'm not using the information that you share with me to leverage you and manipulate you. I'm using it because we both deserve to stand in a place of experiencing what it is we know to be true with inside of ourselves. And until we learn how to play that game, we're going to continue to play the game. I'm going to manipulation.

So can you give us some. Some ninja tips as we. As we start to land this episode? Because this is a big one and we. We've thrown a lot at you. So give us a couple tips that people can put right into their lives right now. You know, instead of manipulation, instead of going to that place that now they realize they've gone to again without judgment. What would be a more. Much more effective way to, as Eric shared, to change. We need something to change. Look, we're not disputing something has to change, but how could we do it more effectively for everyone? Everybody feels appreciated. Everyone feels like they matter. Everyone feels like they've been heard rather than a winner and a loser.

Well, the first thing you need to realize Is that the line where I end and you begin? Where I know I'm stepping into the line of manipulation is I'm wanting to take my pain out on others. And I think that by doing so, it's going to cause me to feel better. I mean, I'm going to say that again.

Say that again.

If I take my pain out on others, my frustration, what's making me panic, feel uncomfortable. In the example of my son joining the military, I was uncomfortable about what he was going to be exposed to, what he was going to be commanded to do, what. What his experiences out there were going to be. And so I immediately took my pain out on him by trying to manipulate and leverage him. My discomfort was something I was trying to fix and alleviate by minimizing him and his decision and creating doubt in that.

So what would have been the more powerful or more place of really understanding.

Owning the place of what I was doing? I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna criticize his decision. I'm not gonna criticize him. I'm not gonna criticize what he's doing or what he wants to do or what he wants to become. Instead, I'm gonna say, oh, that makes me feel so uncomfortable. Like I. That just causes me to panic. Because I'm your mom, it doesn't mean it's not a great decision. It just means that as your mom, I love you and, oh, my gosh, I gotta get comfortable with this, right? And you know what? At the heart of it, you know you're going to do awesome. And I trust you and your ability to figure this out. Right now I'm empowering him and I'm letting him know that I support him. Now I can say what concerns me about this for you is so that I can share, right? And I did do that. I said, hey, you know what? If you would just allow me a few minutes to just share with you some of my thoughts and concerns about this, that would really mean the world to me. I'm advocating for myself now, and I'm asking for what it is that's going to help me feel better instead of just taking it out on you. If I find myself stepping into belittling criticism, minimizing right in my physical body gesture, my body language, or in my words, that's my sign. I'm slipping into manipulation. As long as I believe that if I take my pain out on you, it's going to cause me to feel better. That, at the core, is my sign that I'm slipping into manipulation. So be mindful of that. This is the place where we can begin. And okay, I know we've given you a lot to think about, but just listen. I'm going to give you the answer, and the answer is super simple. To begin to work with manipulation. It's super, super simple. Are you ready? I mean, like, this is going to change your life.

I'm ready.

When you notice or sense manipulation is at foot, and how I know that is, I realize I'm trying to take my pain out on somebody else, or what you're saying to me doesn't make any sense, or it feels kind of funny or it feels kind of weird, and I'm confused and I don't know what to do and I start reeling. That's your sign. And what you need to do is one simple thing. You need to pause, pause, pause, pause, pause, pause, stop. And that sounds so much simpler than it really is because I promise you that when you feel attacked, when you feel criticized, when you feel accused, when you feel minimized, when you feel diminished, when all of those things come up, up to and including somebody cutting you off in traffic or yelling at you because you're not correctly in the crosswalk, it's gonna kick off. Huh? Are you kidding me right now?

Well, and it would. We would be massively. Or not. We would be triggered. Yes. So, so triggered meaning. So a flood of emotion. The feelings again, feelings travel faster than thought. So, yeah, that's why pause. It sounds easy enough when we're here logically and things are going nice and, you know, very Kumbaya ash, if you will. But when we've been triggered, that's when the super bowl happens, right?

Yeah. And you need to just pause and stop. And what you need to do is decide what it is you need to do. Now, where are you? How are you feeling about this? What's going on? So the pause is where we begin. There's a few other things that we can share with you. You're going to have to just. Sorry, come back next week and we'll continue this conversation. But pause is the very. The best leg up that you have.

Well, it's going to slow everything down. None of us need to be sped up when we're triggered. Right. So physiologically we know we have to slow things down.

And that's the best gift that you can give yourself and your partner. And hey, if somebody's not okay with that, if they continue to escalate, maybe threaten verbal or physical violence, well, then you need to get professional help, please, because that's telling you that you're being manipulated beyond belief. I don't want to scare you. That's a great way for you to vet it out if they can't honor a pause. Look, let me just be with this. Let me just take a time out. Let's come back to this then. We know that manipulation is absolutely running the show. So unfortunately, it's time for us to end today. Thank you so much for being with us and we hope so much that this conversation has enriched your life, caused you to think about things from a different perspective, and give you the ability to start creating relationships that support you with more love and less fear in your lives. We also want to give a shout out to our listeners to join and sign up for our five day challenge where you're going to have the opportunity to experience five full days of free live workshops, foolproof maps, I promise, and tactics and tools that you're going to need to reset your relationship journey. It's all for free and you can access and claim your spot for the challenge@stacybartly.com reset. And remember, Stacy is with an I as we kind of sell our way out of here. You know, I love to share that song with you. There's nothing that is more appropriate, in my opinion, when we're talking about manipulation than a song about crazy. Right? Manipulations in all of its forms can make us feel crazy. And we can do it to ourselves and we can do it to others as well. And as humans. Humans, we must be masterful at both, you know, so, Mari, someone's got to tell you the truth here. However, are we crazy if we embrace our perspective in the way we experience life in any given moment, even though those around us don't agree? Well, I would say yes. So let's stop being crazy and let's get good at this manipulation thing. We'll see you next week.

See you next week, everybody.