#56: How To Preserve Your Sanity While Caring For Elderly Loved Ones

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And this is one that sometimes is difficult for us to talk about. It's a basically a taboo subject. And where I'm going with this is with 10,000 people turning 65 every single day. Currently there are 46 million of us baby boomers who are over 65. Not all of us are needing help and care from our children or loved ones, but many of us are. And that number is predicted to be 20% of the population by 2050. And because we know that this is a difficult conversation for the clients that we work with, bringing a parent or an elderly person, somebody elderly in your.

Sphere, that's been important to you, that is needing some help right now.

And we wanted to ask the question and explore the question today of is it possible for care of our elderly loved ones? How is that done while we're maintaining our marriages and taking care of our families, Is this possible? And what are the things that we need to consider if by chance we're in the throes of that right now or we're contemplating that, can there actually be a way to make it an enjoyable, enrich, rewarding experience more of the time? And if so, how do we make that all work? And why would we even want to? What's the payoff? Right? Because many of us in our conversations with others are, look, my parents weren't there for me, so why do I need to be there for them? It's not necessarily the request that brings up the yay, I can't wait. Let's look forward to this. And we're just being honest. So today inside the Love Shack, we have a special guest. Her name is Josephine Tight and she's a wellbeing consultant and an expert on managing the care of others. And she's going to share with us her playbook of experiences and super tips to make it all work. It's all going to go down right here together in the Love Shack. I promise. Right wherever you might find yourself in this conversation today, it does have impact on our relationships. And I promise that there's a way through it. We're going to take a short break and we're going to come back with our wonderful guest, Josephine. I'll be back in a minute.

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Inside the Love Shack, episode 56 and we have a special guest thanks to our engineer Eric Rider, of course. Always at the helm, making us look good and sound good. And we have we're going to go right to what we like to call the heart of the matter.

Yeah. Today we're going to be talking about what should I be considering if I'm currently caring for an elderly parent or what might I consider when knowing that that's coming up for us. You've been asked, you've been requested or you know it's coming and you want to know and reflect on the impact that that may have on our relationships. What are the many places that we need to consider here? And this is a big conversation because our our clients are finding themselves in situations where they need to consider this. They need to take on the care and the well being of an elderly parent or an elderly loved one. And the impact on our relationships is real. And so today we brought in Josephine Type. She's the founder and principal at the Positive the Positivity center and she assists in creating positive change for individuals and organizations by leveraging the science of positive psychology and well being. She has many tools and resources to help us out with this conversation today. As well as she supports those who give care to others, she's also a caregiver to her grandmother and her family of her and has a family of her own. So Josephine walks her own talk every single day. So not only does she have incredible skills and tools, but she also lives and breathes this every single day of her life. So, Josephine, without further ado, welcome to the show. It's so great to have you here with us for this very important and often overlooked conversation. How are you? Coming up to us from Calvary, Canada.

I know, way up there. Thanks for having me. It's good to be here and I'm doing pretty good today. I'm looking forward to just shedding some light and some. Yeah. Some light and love on this topic.

So. Yeah. And let. So let's. My thoughts on this or let's start where this conversation begins. You know, you get that infamous phone call from another family member or the loved one itself, saying, hey, I think I need some help. I don't know how to navigate this and because I know that we relate best as humans through stories. Both of us, you know, all three of us here today have been in this place where we have that phone call happen.

Yeah. I was going to say the best. Yeah, the best thing to just start with is my, my own shared experience of how I've lived, my own consideration of how I was going to get involved with my godmother. So it's not my grandmother, but my godmother. She's always sort of been that motherly figure in my life, but there have just been times where we were really close and then times where we weren't. And that's sometimes how life goes. Anyways, it ended up being a situation that stemmed and birthed from very devastating circumstances. So about a year and a half ago, she, her son was living with her. He's just, you know, my age, like about a year younger than me. And he died suddenly. And, yep, she had a breast cancer diagnosis at that time. So she has a lot of. Lot of physical ailments. So there were. She was already, you know, in with home care, coming in twice a day. And then her son was living with her. And when he, when he died, her daughter lived way out in Port Alberni, which is in, you know, on the coast in Vancouver island on the west side of Canada. And there was just this real opportunity. I call it an opportunity. Right. It's. That's always been my mindset about it. You know, there was just this platform where I could decide, you know, did I want to or did I not want to. And my choice was I could and I wanted to. So I've always sort of approached it from that. I actually get to do this like this is an opportunity to make a difference in her life because I can, because I come to this from the context of which I do. And I've been working sort of with elders that were in long term care, you know, pre Covid times. So I was emotion coach, supporting them all the time. And I thought, you know, that's a really big element of caring, you know, with or for somebody is, is the emotional component, right. It's not just doing something physical for them, but there was that emotional component. And so that's where I saw myself contributing, making a difference in her life. And so I, I'm the one who just decided to take that, that step and she wanted me to take that step. It made sense. We had a, we had a good connection and, and we always had a good connection. And so because of that connection, you know, we just, we sat down and had a chat and that's just how it ended up going. And it's not a full time role for me, it's a part time role for me, but it still is, you know, a care partner, you know, with her and for her in her life. And it's just been to, for the most part, even though there's been some challenges that we faced, it's a joy, it truly is a joy that I actually get to do this. And so it's is helping her, it's helping me at the same time. And I think that's the biggest mindset potential that we have when we're facing sort of this situation is not do I have to do this or do I actually get to do this? You know. Yeah.

And I really want to dive into that conversation today because it's a big one. It's, it's. Many of my clients struggle with this because you know, the conversation and commonly, unfortunately is they were not really there for me. And so why is it that I have to be there for them? And navigating through this, whether I should, whether I can, is something that I really want to break down step by step for our listeners today. But you know, babe, I want to give you an opportunity because you and I have cared for, you know, your mom and so I wanted to give you an opportunity to share your story and what came up for you when you got that phone call of saying, hey, we want to come out, you know, your mom's going to pass soon and she wants to be with all of us in our, in our home. So tell us about that?

Well, yeah, no, for me it was a very easy decision because my mom was there for me. You know, I mean, not that, but again, I, I can understand and appreciate if that wasn't the case, but it also involved a.

You know, I was gonna say it.

Came with a package, came with my.

Stock because it was with my stepfather who's been, you know, my stepdad for many years. He's has since also passed away, but. And then we happen to be also living with a couple of my brothers. So it was, there was a lot of moving parts. But as I look back, Josephine, you know, I have tremendous gratitude and thanks and appreciation because I literally spent every day, every lunch, you know, every day for lunch with my mom for about six months, you know, and so I have no regrets. I was able to spend time that I would sense. Very few adult children get to say they were able to spend with their adult parents at this point in their journey. So.

Well, so this kind of brings us to the question of why would we want to consider even doing this? Because we know that there's going to be logistics, we know that there's going to be complications, day to day care, both physically and emotionally. So, you know, I think maybe we begin this conversation with getting that phone call and then why would I even want to pause and consider. And how do I consider that? Like, how do I make this decision as to whether this is a good moment for me, my family, all parts and things considered? There's lots, there's a lot to be looked at here that we don't often really say. Let's look at this. So why would I want to. Let's divide, let's, let's dive into that question. Why would I even want to consider taking on the care of my, my elderly loved one?

I'm glad you bring that up. I gave somebody that I know just in my life, they're like, I can't.

Do what you do.

Like, you know, they just, they just don't want to go there. Just elderly. The idea of showering somebody or caring for them, you know, physically or feeding somebody, those kinds of things are just. But the whole thing about the approach to, to this and the mindset around it is that if that's not something you do, then don't do it. There is somebody else that can do that, you know, And I think there's an element of going into this conversation and it's this, this moment of choosing that you feel like it's all on you, right? But it's never all on you. There is a community, there's a healthcare system. There are people that do this and do it very well and want to do this, have a really deep desire to want to contribute and make a difference in the way that only they can. And so it's not your sole responsibility. So I think there's one thing, and I don't know, Tom, can you relate to that? Because you said you had siblings and.

Yeah, no, I think that's. That's a very significant distinction. I mean, I think that you could apply that to many areas of great challenge in our lives. But, yeah, I would. Yeah, no, thankfully, yeah, we. I had two brothers, you know, and so all of us, you know, we've lived away from our mother for many, many years. So this was a chance to be with her on a daily basis. So that was huge. And then Stacy, so we had a family, you know, integrated circle that is, you know, giving just a very powerful real life example to what you just described. So it wasn't just me. I was just one of a total of four. You know, that was huge.

But I also want to point out that that may not be our listener situation and that there's other resources that people could surround themselves with.

Well, I think one of the things that comes to mind is just the idea of, well, when are we having those conversations? Because typically these conversations happen at the end of life, right? But why aren't they happen during life? Because if they happen during life and you have those many meaningful conversations, you can understand what's best for that person. What do they need, what they value, how do they want to live their last days if it's going to be at that time, where it is their last days. Those kinds of conversations can help us understand what's the best course of action to take when. When the time comes. And maybe you are the person and maybe you're not, and are you considering what is of most importance to that person? You know, who do they want to spend their final days with or who do they want to be cared by? You know, they need to have a say. And I think that is the key element here and why I bring up. It's not, you know, solely your choice to choose if this is something you want to do or not, but what do they need? Because we have to partner with them. We're not doing this for them. And there's a big distinction here. Like, we don't care for somebody, but we care with and along somebody. This is a journey we're taking together. So they get a Say and a really big say because it's their life.

That's huge. That is a huge distinction. Because so much, many times if we were to get that phone call, right, we would think that we needed to step in and be the all everything and I'm going to have to give and give and caregive and this is going to all be on me. And you know, it's funny, we don't even think about giving the parent a voice in regards to what would you like to, to see happen? How would you like this to go? What are you needing and how can I support you? Very much like we approach a child, right. A child doesn't get a say. We don't really ask when they want to take a nap and when they want to eat. And you know, we feel like we need to step in and we approach it very much from that mindset. Would you agree?

Oh, for sure. We need to give some more autonomy here. I think that's a really big piece of it. And when you give somebody choice, they're going to be more likely to be engaged in that, in that conversation with you. So you know, are you having those conversations early on? Are you asking them, you know, what would you choose? Would you choose, you know, if you still spend time with your, with your grandkids, would you want that versus, you know, being in a wheelchair? You know, like what is of, you know, a priority for you? What's the value for you? And there's a really good book written by Antul Gawande and he talks about that in his own experience with his patients because he's a physician, and also in his experience with his father. Um, and it's called being mortal. And anyways, that, that is the conversation. And the root of sort of where this idea is coming from is are we having those conversations? Are we finding out what really matters to that person so they can have agency and autonomy and we can follow their lead as opposed to them following.

Ours, which is going to garner more cooperation and probably more of that get to experience instead of that have to experience. Right. And I think we overstep that as well. Right. How do we create more of a get to experience? And you know, you and I, when we were putting this show together, had a wonderful conversation about that. And something that I would love for you to highlight for our listeners today is that idea that caregiving isn't a one way street. And this is, this is now moving into the next question of okay, okay, tell me what the payoff is like, like why would I consider this. Okay, I get that there might be some good things here and I don't have to do it all on my own, but really, what's the payoff at the end of the day? Yeah, let's step into that.

Well, for me, my mission has been over the past few years to just really help people redefine what it means to be a caregiver. And so if you just pause for a moment and reflect on the language of which we use, caregiver can be interpreted as somebody who's giving care, which is a one way transaction. And, you know, the thing about it is, even if you look to science, and I've done some literature reviews going all the way back to the 70s, where they're like, there are some benefits to being a caregiver, and it's not just a one way transaction. There is this duality that's happening. There's this, this constant ebb and flow of giving and receiving. And it happens when you stop to notice it. And I think that's the biggest thing here is we are, we've become like the context of which we've created around being a caregiver is one that's become very mindless. And we don't even realize we're. We're going into this space with a construct in our head of like, I'm giving care to somebody. But it can be so much more than that if we allow ourselves to expand our thinking around it. And when we look for moments where, yes, you gave somebody something, what did you receive? Like, often I ask people, what did the person you care for give to you? Like, how are you receiving a gift as you're giving them a gift? You know, think about is this gift exchange as opposed to this exchange of care. You know, how are you exchanging gifts? You know, be it smiles or moments of peace or joy or laughter, and like, those are the things that if you just stop and notice, they help change the context and it help changes the mindset of which we approach being, you know, in this area of caregiving.

Yeah. What do you, what would you say is one of the biggest payoffs that you get from caring for your godmother? And babe, I'm gonna, I'm gonna come.

To you as well.

So be thinking.

So one of the things, this is a really relevant story because my godmother has always experienced a really difficult time asking for help. And this is not something that's uncommon in this space. And so when I started working with her more particularly around her care and, well, being, we Had a conversation because she said, I feel like I'm burdening you. Like you have a family and I don't want you having to come here and cook for me and da da, da, da. And so this is a conversation that would come up often. And so it was really important for me to communicate. And this is very key. I communicated to her, look, being with you, the conversations we have, the meals we prepare, how it's like, I love cooking and she loves food and she used to cook and now she can't, you see? So we found something that connected the two of us that we were able to do together, or that I do for her, or even just being in her house and cooking the meal, then she can smell it, she can taste it, she can add the spices. She wants to make it taste the way she would have cooked it in her own kitchen. Right. And so a communicating that that brings me joy has helped her feel like, a sense of ease around, you know, our agreement. Like, this is what I do with and for you. And it's okay because it brings me joy, sense of satisfaction, a sense of purpose. It's meaningful to me because then I can see that the difference it's making in her life. I know she's healthier, she's lost weight, she's eating more nutritious food. Those are all win wins for her and for me. But we've communicated it, and we've also communicated sort of a contingency plan. So if I'm ever at a place where I feel like, topped out, like something's going on at home or just can't manage to do something, at the time we said we were going to do it, it's always up for flexibility. We can shift and change it. And her knowing that and me communicating that and being clear in it and actually having exercise, that contingency plan with her has made it for pretty much smooth sailing because she knows what I get, I know what she gets. She knows I'm benefiting, I know she's benefiting. And if ever I cannot do what I said I was going to do, it's communicated and rescheduled and we find a way around it or somebody else comes into the mix to help.

Right. That's beautifully said. And I want to point out a couple of things that you've said here which sometimes are often overlooked and we don't know how to do them as a skill based. And that is having that communication about the space specifics, the specificity of what can I do, what can I give, where Am I at. And what do you need? And let's talk about that. When we think about relationships, it's always some form of a given, receive. Right. It's that place where I get to share a little piece of me and what I need and what I want. And you get to share that yourself with me and oft times, our elderly parents too. If. If by chance you're maybe a listener who's saying, you know, what have you done for me? Why would I need to do this for you? Oftentimes when we get to the end of our lives, there's conversations that are open and available that weren't open and available through the younger years of that parent's life. They know that they're coming to the end of their life. And by the contrast of our own life experiences, we're willing to explore and go to find respite, peace, resolve. So oftentimes at the end of life, a place of confession. It's a place of did you know, I remember my own mom as she was passing, you know, the sweet little thing, she looked into my eyes and she said, did I do a good job? Did I do a good job with you as your mom? And I was able to have that conversation with her saying, you did a great job. Thank you so much. And right. Tell me about where you're feeling hung up, what your regrets were. Tell me more about that. Right. So that I can be here and we can share this space together. I think often we overlook the wonderful opportunity that there is available to kind of talk about some of those things that we just haven't had the opportunity or the motivation to talk about. But that all changes when we come to looking at the end of our lives. Right. Would you agree?

Oh, yeah. I mean, I just look at the end as a. There are hurts there. And, you know, we live our whole lives and we can sometimes just layer hurt upon hurt upon hurt, and sometimes it's counter, like intuitive that there would be healing from hurt, you know, but there is, and you've got really nothing to lose. And if you, you. If you approach that situation with that person, even though you've been hurt by them, you can heal that relationship and you can possibly even heal the hurts that you have yourself. Yeah, there can be some things that you might be judging or criticizing in yourself that you become aware of as you. You're not experiencing a healing from a hurt with somebody.

Yeah. And one of my favorite questions to approach this just from a place of curiosity and exploration is help me understand that time when Right. Help me understand where you were. Help me understand what was going on for you. And in our particular situation with Tom's mom, she really wanted to stay with her boys and she was really thriving there. And Tom's stepfather unfortunately became very, very threatened, and it was experiencing tremendous amounts of jealousy as a result of seeing her connect and want to do things with the boys versus him as she's kind of approaching this end of her life. And so that was something interesting that we had to navigate, right. By trying to do what we could to make him feel comfortable and him being brought into the conversation and not negated. And yet mom continuing to express, I really want to be here with my boys. I really want to be here with my boys. Don't let him take me away. And those conversations started to really come out and it took some serious facilitation and some of it quite honestly wasn't resolved. But there was the attempts to, which I think gave us the peace of mind that we did our best. Right. We tackled it as best we could. We tried to support everybody in their conversations. And this points to the payoffs, Right? So the payoffs, in my opinion, and I would love your thoughts on this, are we do get to come back and create some of those do overs, right? We do. If. If you had a parent that wasn't there for you, you know, we often forget that there was a whole lot going on for them and that's why they weren't there. And we make it up that they didn't care about us or that they didn't love us, and that's simply not the case. You know, as I. I say honestly and facetiously to my own kids, look, I could have been mother of the year if I wasn't dealing with my own stuff inside my own limitations, my own fears, doubts, et cetera. And we forget that that's part of the human experience. Right. And as a parent, there's always going to be places where you feel like you've dropped the ball or could have done more, especially when we're looking back and those are. That's that moment to really have those conversations.

And I would say this time of someone's life, you know, you know, again.

Regret is what we hear often. Yes. I mean, so in the way to my experience is the way to handle or turn around and face regret is to step in and create what it is you're regretful about right now.

I mean, and so just because of.

The convergence of the situation of end.

Of life and I've taken Some hospice.

Training and the great body work I know just mean it's all around bringing, you know, bringing closure, having those conversations we have and bringing dignity to this very, very significant and important process and part of our life that none of us escapes. But yet, like you said, Josephine, very few of us ever have some proactive conversations around it. What is it? How do you want to live these last things?

Days? So this brings us to the police. I'd love to hear what you say to your clients who feel obligated to step in here. How do you help them reframe that and turn it around? Because obligation is a huge piece. Like, this is my parent. This is the person that gave me life. Right. So even though you may resonate with, okay, this might be an opportunity for us to heal or for us to have conversations that we haven't been able to have before. Right. I still feel obligated. How do I. How do I work with that? And should I continue and proceed with entertaining the care of my parent or my elderly loved one? If that's where I'm coming from, yeah, I work with that.

So I would just start by saying there. There are so many different situations, and it's really hard to. To give, like, you a specific answer. But what is coming to mind is a specific story that I. That we actually got to put on film. So if you ever want to see it, it's called the Caregiver Toolkit. But we ended up coaching a mom and her daughter, and the daughter lives with her mom. And they had been experiencing a lot of emotional, like, heartbreak, ups and downs. Their relationship wasn't really good. Like, the daughter was noticing her mom would just get really moody, and then they wouldn't be able to have a really great day together. And so in this coaching relationship, I kind of helped them find a tool that would work for them. We kind of adapted a savoring technique for them. And so because one of the things they really, really loved to do together was travel. And they had done a lot of travel in the past, we gave them a frame, and it had a reminder on there, which was savoring. And each day for two weeks, they had to pick a picture out of their catalog of pictures, all the places and trips they'd been on, and put a picture in the frame. And then their job was to, over dinner or breakfast or coffee or whatever at some point in their day, which was something they were already going to do. So we weren't adding an extra task that was going to take time out of their Day. But we were just incorporating a different way of using the time that they were already using. They were just to talk about the picture, talk about the people they were with, talk about some of their memories, and really just have an emotional conversation about a past memory. So they were savoring, slowing down time, bringing about the positive emotions that were present when they were, you know, during that time that they had during that memory. So they're looking at that picture and really enjoying that. And two weeks later, when we, when we talk to them and interview them again, a couple things, their life satisfaction scores for both of them went up. And you know, in the live video, you can actually see and they, Jill and Myrna are actually talking to each other about how the relationship has improved because now they're having conversations and they're not afraid to go into that feeling space and talk about the emotions that are difficult. And it helped them notice when some emotions were coming up. So instead of mom getting to like, I just can't deal with it and I'm done and da da, da, da da. And you know, you're more at the tipping point. You know, daughter was then noticing, you know, the more subtle emotions, the irritation and that kind of thing that was happening. And they could have an emotional conversation. So that story comes to mind because that was something they could use. It was very simple. It was just something they loved. They, they tweaked the intention or the mindset around what they were doing when they were looking at those pictures or talking about those memories. And it actually created a difference in a. How they experienced the relationship, but also how they were managing their emotions, you know, on a daily basis.

Yeah, it was pretty cool. That's so huge. And that's a conversation that we spend a lot of time talking and teaching about in our body of work that we have a physical body and we have an emotional body and we need to learn how to care for both and that our physical body, right, we understand that we work with that, we take care of it. You know, we understand the sensations that it brings to us. But when it comes to our emotional bodies of times, we don't a want to want to address that. And we don't know what those distinctions or those emotions are telling us. Right. We don't know how to care for it. And ofttimes, what we have learned to do is either collapse under its weight and pressure because we don't know what to do, or we want to control the situation and force my will or where I'm at or act my Emotions out on others. And unfortunately, both of those scenarios prevent from sharing those emotions. Right. Those are. But I do want to point listeners to. That is so possible. Right. And as we age and as we are approaching the end. Right. These are oft times motivations to maybe acquire some of those abilities to be a little more empathetic or to be a little more soft or to take a pause or take a breath, which is really the best way to deal with emotions because we're never going to get ahead of them. You know, we start to reel and race and we think that we're going to get ahead of it when actually we need to slow down and be with them and share them from a place of help me understand. And this is what's going on for me. What's going on for you. There's this place of permission that if we could learn to go there, everything we need to navigate through any difficult conversation is right there.

Go ahead, Tom.

Well, I was just going to say, you know, just mean that that's a.

Just a genius framework and there's in lies the power of, you know, expert facilitators and their expertise bringing in a framework to help you and a loved one have. And give you something, some basis, something to wrap your arms around rather than just start sharing again, because that's too big of a gap, you know, I.

Mean, so that was just a genius.

Framework that you shared with your clients to allow them to come together over something they already did. See, so, because most of us, they get it logically and we get it intellectually, but, like, I have no idea how to tackle that, so.

Well, the biggest challenge that I have found communicated to me from caregivers is I don't have time. So if you don't have time, then let's take the time you have and shift the focus of how you're spending that time. You know, when you're feeding somebody or eating with somebody or getting somebody dressed or showering somebody. What are you talking about? You know, is the TV on idly all throughout the day? Well, why? Like, what is that bringing you? Is it bringing you any upbeat positivity to your day? Probably not. So if we ask ourselves, how are we spending that time and just make some small shifts, they can make a really big ripple difference. A really one big one.

Yeah. Well, and as we're considering this, I also want to encourage people to be honest with how they feel about this situation. Don't be afraid of it. Like, put your pros and cons on a list and look at what the payoffs would be. We've highlighted some from our own personal experience. You know, spending time having conversations that maybe weren't available for us to have. Maybe I do have the space, or maybe I don't have the space, or maybe I don't have the time, or I feel like I don't have the time. Whatever your pros and cons are, I would recommend that you put them on a list and don't be afraid to explore them all. And as we do, then we can take that list and we can start to look at, gosh, how can we change this? What's the other side of not having enough time? Just like you had said. And I find that I can start tweaking and massaging that and wait a minute. Maybe I do have enough time and I don't have to do this on my own. What, like, mind blower right there, right? Like what? I don't have to be responsible for all of this.

We have so many resources, and one of our greatest resources is relationships. So, like I was telling Stacy a few times ago when we chatted that when my godmother came home from the hospital, she needed more help than she needed before. She had gone in. She had sepsis. And what I ended up doing was sitting down with her and asking her specifically, what it is that you need right now? What do you need most? What's going to help you the most? And her answer to me was, I just need company. So what we ended up doing was we made a list of people she wanted to see. I used my strengths of connection, relationship building, planning, organizing. I went out there, contacted those people. We made a schedule for two weeks so that as she was recuperating, she could have a visitor every day. And nothing was. There was no expectation other than you show up on the time you're going to come, and if you can't, you communicate it. And some people came with meals, Some people came with flowers, Some people came with a smile. Some people like it didn't matter. Some people came with a book. She got the company, and I didn't have to go visit her every single day when she was recovering. If I had to have done that, my family would possibly have fallen apart during that time. So, like, we. I had to connect with her and then help her connect with the people that were important in her life so that we could all collaborate and help each other. But again, it's so. It's. It is difficult if you are in a cloud or under a cloud or in a dark place to feel like you've got resources available. That is the hardest part. Once you reach out and start to ask for the help, it will fall into place. But it's actually asking the very first thing and realizing I can ask and there is somebody I can ask. That's actually the harder thing than making it all work after you've asked for help.

That's, that's that good old being, understanding and the importance of advocating for oneself. It's amazing the difficulty that we have for that.

Well and this is a great opportunity for us to step in and talk about self care. If by chance we are giving and receiving care. I love that two way street analogy and it's always so true. And if we can settle into that, that two way street can be a beautiful experience. Right. There's this place where we can enjoy what it is we're experiencing regardless of how it's going as long as we don't have a lot of expectations around it. Right. There's this expectation that I have to do it all or there's this expectation that they're supposed to show up and do it a certain way. Right. I read this book and they said it was supposed to play out like this and we're doing it wrong, we're getting it wrong. And there comes into play all of this self judgment which inevitably is going to trigger more of our past places of judgment whether I'm judging myself or judging my parent. And so if we can lay that all down and let this be a new beginning or a new start and we can just kind of be where we are in this moment, then we can pick it up from there and maybe explore things that have happened in the past. But it also provides us the opportunity to create more robust, rich experiences in the future. So if there's a disappointment in the past, how do I bring that awareness forward and create something that I wanted to create back then?

Now it's just there's a possibility creating that you're talking about. It's like that opportunity that I very first had when her son just suddenly died. There was just this flat line, deep dark vortex just present and from that was a place to create. Yeah.

Being honest about where we are, what we can give, what's realistic. For me, those are all things that we can talk about and we can explore. It's when we small swallow them and feel like we have to override our knowing and not communicate that that creates those feelings of obligation with inside of us. So it's so important that we communicate those even when we find a way around them. Right. Because nothing is set in stone.

Yeah.

And let me just, you know, for our listeners, like I can say, okay, I'm Josephine Thomas.

Stacy, I get everything you're saying, but you know what?

I'm still feeling like, dang it, this is not something I really want to do. Josephine, share with us. How would you help a client bridge that incredible, you know, conflict inside of themselves? Again, it sounds right logically. And I know what I'm going to maybe face if I, if people find out I said I can't do that. Like, how do, how does someone bridge that? Because I'm sure that's going on with.

Some of our listeners right now. Yeah, I get it.

Well, it's, it's likely that if you're in that space, you, you might be experiencing what people term burnout. So if you're, if you're close to burnout. Some of the reasons why I think burnout exists is because we've created a context, like I said, that one way transaction where we feel like we're giving all the time. And if that's the way we continue to view it, then we never feel like we're filling our bucket. We feel like we're always emptying our bucket. And self care is great, but it doesn't necessarily help. Like, you need more than just self care to create a bucket that's full in the long term. Right. Because having a bubble bath or going for a massage or taking care of yourself will help you in the short term, but you need some other tactics and strategies. And there's, there's a lady that I follow, her name is Ellen Langer. She's a mindfulness consultant in the field of positive psychology. And one of her key sayings is who said so? In other words, like, we've, we've gone into this and think, think about the way this conversation very first started is like, oh my gosh, this is so heavy. Am I actually thinking about providing care for somebody? Like, that's a crazy thing to do. That's going to require so much time and effort and I'm going to burn out. And so think about that self talk and that context that we're creating. And then we wonder why we're burning out. So who said that this experience is going to be that hard? You know, one of the things that I saw when I was doing research prior to creating some of the tools that we did was, you know, supportive websites for caregivers in Alberta. And some of them would actually, their leading page would Be, you know, here are some of the ways you'll know you've experienced compassion burnout or, you know, I'm like, why are we setting people up to think that this is actual experience of being a caregiver? So, so for me it comes down to the fundamental belief that something else is possible. And it just comes from asking myself some different questions. Like who, who said it's, it's always hard. I'm not saying it's always easy. Right. And Stacy, you actually said that earlier. You said, you know, we want to do this more of the time, not all of the time. And that's a big distinction. Thinking that it's always easy is also not necessarily a very realistic, long term sustainable approach to being a caregiver. So yeah, going back to just context and just define it for yourself, like maybe you could even recraft your job or your duties or your role as you approach being a caregiver. Like, what are your strengths that you're bringing to the situation? What do you value? How do you connect with the person that you're providing care with and for. And I think those kinds of questions can help you redefine it for you. Not because I said it's a different way. Again, who said so? Right. But for you, like, what are the things that will really help you define your role? So it's meaningful to you and when it's meaningful to you, I think it just becomes a slightly bit easier. Right. And just this is always little shifts, right? We're not going to run a marathon tomorrow. We've got to train for this. Right. And so it's just slightly little shifts.

So to get us started, what are some of your favorite questions to help us kind of evaluate this? Right. To do this little bit of a mind shift as we wrap up our conversation.

Yeah.

Well, I have a favorite one that we created in our meaning making tool and that is called it's an experience on shared mattering. And so the whole idea of this is to, it's obviously you and another person usually. And sometimes if you're a professional caregiver and paid professional caregiver, caregiver, it's you and many other people. So we usually go into this and we it's task based and we go in to do a certain job. But if you went into it and asked yourself a few more different questions like what do I value? What's important to me? And learn about what the other person values and what's important to them and the distinction there is kind of, you can imagine Sort of that Venn diagram where you can find something that's of value to them and something that's of value to you, that. That, you know, overlap. And that's called shared mattering. And so it's really about asking yourself, what do we share together? And that becomes sort of the foundation or the seed starter of that relationship that can help it, you know, grow in depth and breadth so that there's a firm foundation instead of it just being, you know, very surface.

I love that. I just want to highlight here, as we wrap up this conversation, the distinction between just running because I'm afraid and I don't know how to approach this, and I feel like it's too much and I can't take this on. That's a different conversation than facing it and approaching it from a place of. Let me explore it first and then let's make the decision of times in our relationships, whether we're talking about lovers or we're talking about cared ones that are elderly that we want to bring into our lives. If it feels or seems impossible or overwhelming, we run from it without really exploring what's possible. And nine times out of 10, when we explore it, we can find a way through that. These problems, right, of these things that seem so insurmountable or overwhelming are very solvable. And yes, there might be some of you out there who should not be providing care to an elderly parent that absolutely exists as just. There are people that have created families and lives together who would be well served to say, okay, we got to do this differently. Those things exist. But nine times out of 10, it's the fear of it, it's the sense of overwhelm, it's the sense that I don't know how to approach this that keeps us from exploring what's truly possible. And so explore what's truly possible. You know, like pause, ask the questions, like, explore the answers, have the conversations. And if you need support to do that, then, heaven's sakes, let's do that and make your decision from that place of perspective and not on the front side of just panic.

And I would just add that that's oftentimes where a skilled facilitator can come in objectively, because, Josephine, correct me if I'm wrong, when you step in and help your clients so you can come in from a place of objectivity, so you can create that permission and safety to have and help a client facilitate a conversation or an approach perhaps, that they are not able to do by themselves. And you know what, ladies and gentlemen, that is. Okay. That's the power. I mean, I'm a real estate appraiser and guess what? No one could ever appraise their own home. Why? Because there's too much emotion that took place in that home. So it's very similar, right?

Yeah. Because all the things I teach people, I then experience in my own life. Oh, so, you know, so yeah, it is. It does require an objective, unbiased, you know, expert or specialist. Not necessarily even an expert sometimes, just that. That listening ear. Right. Somebody who's got that skill of empathy or is willing to develop a skill of empathy. Because I believe empathy is a skill that anyone can learn if you want to.

But that's awesome. Well, Josephine, share with us how people can connect with you. Right.

And find more resources and tools.

They throw them, show the throw. They find themselves in this very difficult place and wonderful place at the same time. Right. This opportunity of get to.

So you can find me on LinkedIn. I'm there under Josephine, Tight and positivity center. And then for caregivers, I'd say that the largest resource that we've created for caregivers is toolsforcaring Cat. And that'll guide them to four videos we've created on four different concepts from the field of positive psychology. And we've created a free downloadable tool that they can. Can use just to. It's full of just different experiences that do exactly all the things we've been talking about today. So.

Oh, that's so great. Thank you so much for being here and sharing your wisdom with us today. It's always such a joy. I mean, and we're going to have you come back and have some more conversations because, you know, we need to think about not only approaching this from myself, my perspective, but maybe what about my spouse? How is this going to. How does that play into the mix? And what about the kids? So there's lots to explore here. And so we'll come back and do this again.

I know we need part two and three for sure. Maybe more.

Some kind of a series. Yeah. Have a beautiful day and thank you so much for being here inside.

Oh, so awesome. Thanks so much.

Thank you.

We're going to take a quick break and when we come back, we're going to have a little bit of fun. We're going to spread some love and we're actually going to feel a little bit about.

And we have our bomb box giveaway.

Oh, that's true.

We'll be right back.

I met Stacy and Tom about two years ago. I was At a point in my relationship where I was ready to file for divorce. Not that I wanted to, but I just felt hopeless and helpless. I'd been through other counseling and coaching and didn't find any success. With Stacy and Tom methods. I was able to eliminate insecurities, set boundaries, plant my flag, eliminate rabbit holing. I was separated from my wife for a year and I have since moved back home for the last six months. Now, I still refer back to a lot of the teaching that Stacy and Tom provided and it's helped me. It's well worth it.

Learn the simple three step system to rescue your struggling relationship by registering for Stacy's brand new free workshop. Reserve your seat by going to staceybartley.com workshop.

Get your daily dose of Variety Alternative Talk 1150.

Welcome back. Inside the love shack, we have our bomb box giveaway. We're going to the what we call having some fun. Yeah.

This is the. Follow the fun.

Follow the fun.

October was breast cancer awareness month and we had a wonderful guest on who volunteered to give us a balm box to somebody who signed up for the fun list. And so all of those that are on the fun list today are and they've entered a chance to win this wonderful balm box. The value of it is, you know, $60. So it's something that you can use for yourself if by chance you're a cancer survivor or somebody that you love and that you want to really give something what Liz called a functional product. And so we're going to ask our wonderful engineer Eric to pick us a random number between 1 and 96 today. And that is going to be the winner of this month's giveaway, the bomb box. Wow. Okay.

A lot of pressure here for a good number.

Make it good, Eric. Let me see, let me think.

Foreign.

I'm gonna go with 33.

33.

Wow. Lucky 33. That's the number of transformations. So let me count here.

Quickly count, honey.

Yeah, quickly count. We're going with K. Maloney 57@gmail. K. Maloney, 57@gmail. Don't worry if you don't know who that is. We're going to email you. We're going to reach out to you. You can tell us where to send that wonderful balm box for you. K. Meloni 57@ Yahoo. Congratulations so much. And congratulations. All right. If you need to get on the fun list and receive giveaways that we do once a month at the very first episode we do each month, you can go to our website and you can get on that fun list, we do all kinds of fun giveaways as a way of having some fun. So let's, let's hear from one of our spread Some love people today. She's going to actually be a guest on our show coming up. Her name is Mandy Nuttall. She's actually the author of the Birthday Suit and she does some really great things. She's going to help us have conversations with our children and our teenagers about their bodies and about sex, which is so needed. Can't wait to have her on. She's going to be a fantastic guest and conversation. But she has a message for us today and this is what she had to say.

Hey, my name is Mandy Nuttall and I am the author of The Birthday Suit Book 1 yearly guides to easily teach your children ages 1 to 9 about their body and sex. I'm looking forward to being inside the Love Shack with Tom and Stacy really soon as a guest. And the thought I'm having today that I'd love to share about love and relationships is don't underestimate the bond that you can create with your children when you can freely and comfortably talk about the body together. They need this connection and if they can't have it with you, they're gonna find it somewhere else. I'll see you soon inside the Love Shack.

That's going to be a wonderful episode. She has done some fantastic work and literally lays out guides. I can't wait to share with our listeners about how to have these off times, challenging conversations and where to begin with the conversation. Like where do you begin teaching somebody about their bodies?

And I love what you said. You know what?

That com. That connection is going to be going to be facilitated whether it's it's with you or somebody else. Well, well said. So what are we, what are we feeling?

Well, today we have a wonderful song. Sad A is. You know, how can you go wrong with Sade? Especially when it comes to a conversation of thinking about challenge. The challenge of times of caring for people that we love. And this falls into the category sometimes. If not just our elderly. We certainly had that conversation today. But of our children, right? Maybe ourselves or our partners, right? Our lovers. Caring for others can sometimes feel like an overwhelming experience. And yet when we let it all go and explore from another place of what would it take and what would it feel like in that even exchange to stand by your side, I thought there's nobody better than Sade to have that conversation. As far as the feeling perspective from that song, she has a Beautiful voice. And she talks about how she will be there by your side, she will walk with you, you hold your hand. And at the end of the day, I mean, isn't that what we kind of all want is to know that we're not navigating this whole life, relationship, journey, etc, by ourselves? I would say absolutely.

Well, you know, and I, I don't.

Mean to be cliche, but you know what I always say, cliche is cliche because it truly, it's really true. And, and again, why do they, you know, why do they wrap up a present that, you know, some of us, hopefully many of us are going to be getting here at Christmas time because it's wrapped in real nice paper. But I think they're real present is to be present with someone, especially what Josephine, our incredible guest, shared with people that are approaching the end of their life. I mean, that's what I was able to do with my mom, is truly be present with her.

You know, the difference in the world.

Yes. I mean, so, you know, you can.

Check out this week's song along with all the songs from our past episodes. We do a song every single episode on our website as well. All you need to do is click on the Love Shack Live, a playlist, and you can hear the song that we're talking about as well as all the others from our previous 55 episodes. Well, all right, it's time for us to close this episode down. Any final thoughts, babe, about caring for elderly? What we should consider?

You know, I would just really, really encourage people. Again, this is a conversation like others that we help our clients, you know, work with and work through. And if you're not able to have the conversation, you know, reach out to us, reach out to Josephine. Because I can't overestimate how powerful it is to have a facilitator that is objective and is impartial, meaning there's no sides taken. Typically, we run into problems when someone feels like they're being ganged up on. Well, no, none of us want to feel like we're being ganged up on. So again, that's the power of a skilled facilitator. They're simply there to create the permission and safety. So things potentially that are able to be shared, that maybe have never been shared before can be.

Yeah. And I would encourage you that wherever you might find yourself in this moment, that you don't approach it from a place of fear. Right. That we face the fear and we have those conversations that need to be had and don't make decisions from that place of fear and panic because then, right there's a wonderful story I tell often. We, we have a tendency to run over the edge. We're, we're making decisions and we're reacting to things without the understanding and clarity that is available. If we'll just slow down and push the pause button for just a moment. So thanks so much for being here. And we want to also make a point of saying thank you to Josephine Tide and to Mandy Nuttall for being here with us and helping us have this conversation.

Also, to Liz and her generous donation for the balm box. Thank you so much.

You know, thanks for helping us celebrate, you know, Breast Cancer awareness month through October. And congratulations to K maloneyahoo.com she won the bomb box today. It's a pleasure to be here with you today. Know that we send you off with all the love in our hearts along with the power to create it today. If you love the show, spread the word. Help us spread the love. We'll be back next week to share more of Love Shack live with you.

See you soon.

Have a great week.

Thanks for joining us today in the Love Shack. We hope you can came away with something that made your toes tingle. To learn more about everything you heard on today's show, go to stacybartley.com podcast Love the Show. Help us spread the love by sharing the show with others. Okay, everybody, time to go. We gotta close the doors to the Love Shack for this week. You don't have to go home, but you can't see. Stay here. Come back next week though and join us for another edition of Love Shack Live with Tom and Stacy Bartley.