#60: Budgeting Tips For Couples: Have a Happy, Stress-Free Holiday Season

Hey, thanks for coming. Welcome to the Love Shack.

Little old place where we get to get together, explore fresh perspectives and eavesdrop on juicy conversations and uncover the mysteries that nobody talks about but absolutely influences our relationships. If you are struggling with your special someone, this show is dedicated to helping couples rescue their relationships. I'm Stacy Bartley and I'm here with my co host and lover, Tom. Together for the past decade, we've been teaching and mentoring couples from around the world with the sole purpose of helping them create and experience love for a lifetime in their relationships, both with themselves and others, using sound principles and skills. So great to be here with you.

Absolutely. And if you're listening live, it's Happy Holidays, everybody. Again, whatever holiday is sacred and special for you, we honor, acknowledge that. Always great to be with you. We appreciate you gifting us your most precious resource, which is time. And this is episode 60. And you know, I'm never allowed to say much, but I'm really excited because we have a juicy topic with an incredible guest that's going to help us some, excuse me, navigate some, I would say maybe choppy waters during this holiday season, all with the intent to help it, make it go more smoothly so you can enjoy it and appreciate it and so savor it.

This holiday season, since it is holiday, it's the perfect time to spend quality time with our loved ones and to show them how much we care. It's also the time where we're bombarded with thinking that showing them that we care is a special time for presents and gifts. And let's be honest, sometimes the more we care, the more extravagant we think the gift needs to be. And so this affects our spending, this affects our budgets. And I know I. It's gonna, don't be a downer. This is going to be a very positive conversation. If by chance you're going, oh, my gosh, this episode's about budgets and money and finances.

Don't click off. Please don't click.

It really is. But you know what? I have an incredible person who has inspired me from the moment that I met her. She's going to be our guest today during the Heart of the Matter and she helped me look at this whole financial conversation from a very unique and refreshing perspective. And I can't wait to bring her on and have her with you. How she approaches money conversations in her own life. And I promise you, through this episode, we are going to help you see and look at holiday spending from a new vantage point perspective instead of looking at what you can't do right. And how you might be restricted and restrained. Look at the opposite of what you can do and what is possible.

Well, I would say just again, I'll be very transparent here. Stacy and I used to share when we came together in the spirit of full disclosure, when I hear holiday, I think, oh gracious man, you know there's gonna be a hit on old checking account. That's because we have a lot of moving parts, a lot of beans in our family which we love and appreciate. And so that's to be honest with that's like oh good gracious. I mean that's just more of what how we are where you choose to contribute and support our incredible family.

Well then it's a good time to discuss how it is to have a happy stress free holiday season without breaking the bank.

That's not an oxymoron. Happy stress free holiday season. Say that fast five times.

Well, I just think that maybe what we need to do is let Amy come on here in a minute and she's going to tell us how to get started. And I don't know babe, maybe it'll help you and I too with our eight kids, you know, in laws, 13 grandkids and wonderful people and friends in our lives, maybe she can help us figure this out too. So stay tuned, we'll do it together. We'll be right back after this break.

I met Stacy and Tom about two years ago. I was at a point in my relationship where I was ready to file for divorce. Not that I wanted to, but I just felt hopeless and helpless. I'd been through other counseling and coaching and didn't find any success. With Stacy and Tom's methods. I was able to eliminate insecurities, set boundaries, plant my flag, eliminate rabbit holing. I was separated from my wife for a year and I have since moved back home for the last six months. Now I still refer back to a lot of the teaching that Stacy and Tom provided and it's helped me. It's well worth it.

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Hey, welcome back. Oh, I just jumped in.

My wife stole my thunder. Ladies and gentlemen, I have very few opportunities to shine and usually after the break, that's where I say welcome back. Thanks to everyone for spending time with us. This is episode 60. I am blessed and grateful to say episode 60. We have an incredible team behind us. One of them is Eric Ryder. He's our sound engineer extraordinaire. So without further ado, let's get to the heart of the matter and a happy holiday season without stress. Please sign me up.

Yes. Amy Scott is going to be our incredible guest. She's a certified professional financial coach who believes it's not about how much money that we have. She experiences most people thinking about their money as having to be a gatekeeper. And I would confess that that is very much where we kind of approach that conversation with money as well. Right, babe?

Yes.

And we have to let go of what it is we really want to be financially well, but really adopting the right money strategies makes what we truly want possible. So says Amy. So it's not about how much money you have. It's about how do you utilize what you have. And this is such a refreshing perspective when I met Amy and I'm so excited to share her with all of you, especially during this holiday season where the conversations and topics of money we know within our clients and within our body of work can bring up a tremendous amount of difficulty. Talk about difficult conversations that are around, should we throw the party this year or not much money are we going to spend. And that's if they happen at all. Most of these conversations don't happen because we're too afraid to bring them up. And so inevitably, we end up thousands of dollars in debt. Time we hit January 1st. So Amy welcome to the show. It is so great to have you here with us. I have been so excited and delighted for this conversation because I think it can help so many of our listeners and certainly Tom and I in our own financial picture and conversation.

Oh, thank you so much for having me. It's wonderful to see you guys.

Yeah, you as well. So let's, let's just dive into the holiday spending. Right. I'm going to give you a scenario here and I want to hear how you feel like we would perhaps approach it. Right. I'll help with the conversation and communication tips. This is the benefit of doing it together and you can give us some of the concrete financial advice that you are so incredibly epic at doing and facilitating for your own clients. So how about we have a couple and they want to throw a holiday party and one of them wants to go big, they want to go extravagant, they want to have everybody over that has touched their life throughout the year, all their friends, their families, etc and the dome perion. Well, you know, yes, kind of giving it away. And another says, you know, really, I, I think maybe we should save this money and, and maybe focus on doing more responsible things like paying off the house and putting the kids through college and maybe paying off debt that we already have accumulated throughout the year. So, you know, how, how would you approach this conversation and help us start to begin wrapping our heads around what the best financial move in this scenario is?

Good one. I like the scenario. Well, the first thing I'd say is before we dive into the numbers piece of it, like, well, because obviously there's a lot of background. I don't necessarily know about this fake couple, but I would have both members of the couple have a conversation with each other and start from being curious. So I think so often that's the piece missing around finances is that we assume we know why the other person wants to do what they want to do. But start with that curiosity. For example, why is it that you want to host that party? Why is that important to you? What do you want to get out of that? For example, when we start with that curiosity, the other person actually feels like they're heard and listened to as opposed to just this wall of no, we can't do that. Because I think often around finances there's this one's a yes and one's a no. But it's not always grounded in reality. It's more from what we think we should or shouldn't be doing around our finances. And I think that saying, well, we shouldn't Spend that money. We should spend it on other things. The should is never going to carry the day. The should is, like, underneath everything, making everybody feel yucky. So my recommendation would be to sit down, have a conversation. Start from curiosity, ask questions, and then listen. And maybe this is more in your camp, Stacey, but, you know, ask questions as much as you can and listen without judgment or criticism. Because I think so often, especially the longer we've been married. I don't know about you, but my husband and I have been together 15 years. We've been married 15 years. And when he says things or I ask him something and he starts to answer it, I think I already know what the answer is, and I have to continue to give up. If he's the one that wants to have that big holiday party, he's the youngest of eight kids. We have 31 nieces and nephews. He's got 38 cousins. We could have a banging party over here.

Guys.

What I'm really interested in is, okay, you want to have that party?

What.

What do you want that experience to be like?

Right.

And then we can talk about the numbers piece. But why is it you want to have that?

Oh, it's. I. So this is why I just so appreciate you and your fresh perspective as we've talked about in prepping the show. Amy, you know, you and I come from so many of the same perspectives and refreshing ideologies about coupling and these conversations. And I love your approach here. And I'm just going to highlight. We've talked about this in previous episodes, but it warrants highlighting here. What you've just done is you've separated the physical, which is the money part, from the emotional part. And it's always the emotional part that we have a very difficult time talking about. Those are the conversations that are important, that are running our lives, that are driving the situation forward. And it's really the emotional parts that make it difficult. If we get down to the numbers right, or should we have the party or not, which is a physical experience, we end up fighting about those things, but we never get to the heart of the matter, which is the emotional desires and wants that are driving, or fears or insecurities that are driving the conversation. And what you've just eloquently done so seamlessly is you've said, let's start with the emotional, which is what I tell our clients, hey, the physical part, let's set it aside for a moment and let's talk about why it is you want to do what you want to do, and let's talk about how this is affecting you because those are the things we never talk about.

Well, and I would just add that we just talked about this in our pre show meeting, babe, when we were coming home. We have a wonderful coffee shop we go to. Is most of us turn to the physical answer or a physical answer to the emotional challenge, and we're never going to get there. That's an apple and an orange. And it's amazing how many of us, and me included. And so as you just shared, Amy, you can bang around all day on the ideas, excuse me, on the numbers, but until you get to the emotional side, well, let again what you just shared be curious. What we saying are, is help me understand, you know, invite me into your thinking why this is so important to you.

And if we don't understand that there is an emotional and a physical component in this conversation, it's the numbers. The numbers are going to matter. They have a role, they have a place. But if we don't understand the emotional driver that's pushing my desire for that party with curiosity, as you had just suggested, then I'm, I'm going to always feel frustrated or resentful if those things aren't fleshed out or talked about or explored. Right. I might choose to go along with you. But if I never feel like the emotion of behind it all is addressed, I'm never going to feel like I can truly choose in. And I'm, I'm making up a bunch of assumptions about, you know, why or why not. You said we can't have the party or we're going to do the party, but you're going to do it, you know, with your own resentment and frustration. Right. And it's always the emotional driver. And if we don't solve the emotion, what ends up happening is we try and treat the physical without addressing the emotional. And it's like trying to solve a digestive problem. And your focus is on the brain or the focus is on your toe. Right. We can't solve one right without addressing the other. And it won't matter how much attention we give to the brain or the toe, I still have a digestive problem. And it's important for us to understand that that's just how it rolls as human beings.

And would you say, Amy, in your professional experience, when you coach your clients to do that, what typically do you hear? Start with, you know, help me understand, be curious why you want. Where, where do your clients usually go when you suggest that, that tactic to them?

I think what usually happens Tom, is that they hear things that they didn't know if they're truly coming at it from that curious. And not just Amy told us to do that. So let me check those boxes. Coming from True Curiosity, it's like, oh, well, you wanted to have family and friends around, right? Or you wanted to see your niece you haven't seen for a long time, or you actually wanted to show off the house that we bought last year, or like, whatever that is, we start to understand each other. These, my clients, myself, I mean, my husband and I do this as well. Start to understand each other better where they're coming from. Then we can get to that next question of, okay, well, how. What do we want the budget to be for that? So I typically have folks just talk about, in general, what are the experiences you want to have around the holiday season? Holiday party might be one of them, but someone else might want to, you know, go out for dinner a few times, or somebody else might want to buy this big gift for someone in their family, like their parents or their kid or whatever. What. What are those things you want to have? What are those experience you want to have? Then we can move into, okay, well, what is the budget around that? So that when we spend that money, we can actually enjoy spending it. Told that money, I like to say we've told that money to go. Go towards the holidays. Like, if somebody goes on vacation, I'll say, well, you told that money to go on vacation, right? But the same thing around the holidays, like, when you've come up with that amount, that number, and maybe there's a little bit of negotiation, but we understand the why behind it. Then while we've chosen to operate around this number, go enjoy spending that money. It's not. You don't have to look later and say, well, we should have put it towards this or we should have turned it towards that, because we chose that together as a couple that enjoy that experience of spending that, whether that's towards gifts for others, yourselves, or experiences.

Man, Amy, what you just said is such a refreshing perspective because so often we get ourselves caught in an internal conflict with this conversation. Right. I allocate the monies, but I don't ever feel heard from the emotional perspective. And so then I'm constantly, you know what I call riding the rail? I'm saying, we're going to spend it, but I'm constantly saying, we should have done this over here. We should have done, oh, see? And that can last not only days and weeks, but like lifetimes. Oh, you remember back in, you know, 1978, when we should have, like, done this instead of that. And it really kind of cripples us when we start talking about monies in the future. Right. It makes me more afraid and insecure about how to spend the next pot of money. And I'm just continually creating this internal conflict because I can't just say, I told that money me to go on vacation. I love your verbiage there. Like, I really want to highlight. That is so fun. I told this money that we're going to spend it on the holidays and that's that it is what it is and that's the way it's going to be. And we've been in unison and agreement about that because we've shared the piece of curiosity and what it is we truly want to experience through the holidays. I mean, like, that's, that's huge.

No, I mean just that what that's done to my, you know, inner. Just having you share that. Amy's like, oh, my gosh. So. Because I think regret comes from this conflict within ourselves. Right? I mean, so if we can be on the same page, understand the emotional side, like, oh, my gosh. I mean, let's then. Because I think regret comes. If you read the stories at the end of life, it comes from not, you know, having the conversations, not taking the time, you know, so the true savoring, because life, not to be cliche, but it's true, is so fleeting and so fast. So, no, that, that, that, that's a nugget, ladies and gentlemen. You want to re. Listen to that as well as myself many times.

And I think it's easier to. Once you've decided that if there is. Because you mentioned this earlier, Stacy, like, oh, well, we'll come to January and all of a sudden January 19th comes in and we have this credit card bill, right. Or our savings is dwindled or something like that. If we've had that conversation in advance, it takes some of the surprises out. Nobody's really surprised that the credit card bill is that high really. But, like, the actual numbers of it. You could actually choose and say, like, you know what? We're going to be okay with having X amount on our credit card. The upset is when people don't know what that will be. So that's the piece where I come in around, like, all the planning of it. But as much as you can plan, then you can say, like, we're choosing, even if you're, listen, it's not my finances, not personal to me. So if you choose, for example, to, you know, go into some credit card debt around that or take out a loan or whatever that is. But you know that in advance. You can have a lot more confidence around that and not deal with that surprise for your couple on the other side. Like, oh, we chose that, we planned.

Around that and we know that we can handle it, as opposed to just getting the bill and going, oh, I knew we were going to spend some money and I know we haven't talked about it. I mean, this is all an internal dialogue, right? Like, I just don't want to go there. I don't want to have this conversation. I don't want to fight about money. So just do what you got to do. I'm going to brace myself and just hope, cross my fingers that this isn't going to be as bad as it could be. And then I get the credit card bill, you know, mid January, and, and I go, oh my gosh, holy cow. Right?

We would call that a massive trigger.

And then, and then I'm having the conversation finally about the money. Like, like the conversation about money is inevitable. That's what I'm trying to point out here. It's inevitable. You're either going to have it in a strategic planning session, like Amy is suggesting that we do with curiosity and coming to agreement and I would call that co creation on the front side, or you're going to get the surprise on the back side because everybody's operating autonomously based on their own ide, all their own expectations and their own beliefs and emotional drivers in regards to how this is supposed to go. And then you're going to get the surprise, Bill, whatever that might be. Right? Some of us are going to be relieved. Oh, thank God. I, I thought they were going to, I thought they were going to spend 5,000. It's only three, you know, yay. Okay, but, but probably the likely outplay of that is going to be, oh, I was hoping it was going to be three and it's eight and now I'm mad. Now I think, why did you spend this? And we're going back through, right. Instead of sending the money off for vacation or off for the spending, we're now going to get triggered. And because we don't know how to handle those very well, we're going to take it out on our people that we love the most and we're going to be having this conversation post holiday season. Right? Because I'm now upset and frustrated. I thought you were going to spend this based on what? Yeah, I thought you Were going to spend this based on what it is, what it is now. And so we're going to have this conversation on the backside, probably not very well. So I love the strategy of saying like, do it now, have this conversation about what it is you want to experience for the holidays now. It might be fun. I'm, I'm feeling inspired. Like for me, you know what I love to do? I love to go to holiday concerts. Like, I am so disappointed that we can't go see our favorite performer this year because Tom's going to be having a surgery. But I love to go to holiday musicals, holiday shows, variety shows, etc. That's the holidays for me and that's something that I, I very much enjoy. Like, like. And what would it be for you, babe? Like if we were having this conversation?

Yeah, no, I, that it's a local show that's so unique and so fun. But yeah, I'm having my left shoulder replaced.

So I mean, but what are the holidays for you? I mean, like what?

Well, no, I love what you've done. Even though we didn't have the conversation that Amy just said about, you know, Stacy had this wonderful idea to go decorator home and it does look awesome. All kidding aside. And it's, it's cool. We, it wasn't a four digit experience, thank goodness, but just a three. But I would just say along that note, Amy, do you find, when you suggest and coach your clients to have the conversation, out of curiosity as to why is that a foreign concept construct for them when you suggest this is where we're going to start?

I think. Well, they wouldn't necessarily say, I don't know how they would say whether it's foreign or not, but it's like it can be uncomfortable because so often around money, we're reactive, which is basically everything you were saying, Stacy. I kept hearing that out and there's like we're reactive as opposed to proactive. And I think it is, it is a different conversation because so often, you know, we come into marriage with different beliefs, expectations, experiences around money. It's not like anybody comes into marriage and it's like, well, I haven't had to deal with money yet. You know, I mean, maybe you haven't had to deal with kids yet or maybe you haven't had to deal with like owning a house yet.

Right.

Or health issues yet. But like everybody's dealt with money and we've got these, I don't want to say necessarily trauma, but there could be trauma around finances, definitely, but there's layers and they're inside of us. So those beliefs, experiences, expectations play out inside of our relationships and our marriages. So it can be very challenging when I ask people to take a pause and say, let's look at what some of those layers may be for you, because you're not coming at this. And it's not necessarily foreign to people. They know there's something there they will start to explore, well, this is how my parents dealt with money, or my siblings or my friends or my colleagues or whatever. But they start to see, wow, those are two really different ways. That's why you always like using a credit card, right? You like getting those points that cash back. Not you, Tom, but just one in general, right? Points the cash back. And the other person's like, no, I like using cash. That's what always has worked for me. And that piece can cause conflict inside of a relationship. The other piece is if one person is really committed to paying off debt, for example, whereas the other person's like, yeah, I'm okay with carrying that debt, but I want to make sure we're putting the full amount towards retirement. And then the big piece is like, if you have somebody who's really interested in tracking the numbers, spreadsheets are their love language, right? And they're managing the money coming in and out. The other person isn't necessarily having their heads in that those numbers. In fact, they'd rather not even open up the bank account, but they're still spending money. And in some marriages, they're the person spending the bulk of day to day spending because they just happen to be the person who's doing the grocery shopping or picking up stuff with the kids or whatever. They don't. Both of them are doing the best that they can. That's the piece I really want to say with the couples that I work with. They come to me saying, I'm doing the best that I can. And I acknowledge them. To say, you both are. You just can't see the full picture, right? You're both kind of operating in your own silos around that. So I think people know that those layers are there. They're just not really sure how to extract those and move forward and not have that conflict, overspending or resentment. They. They are looking for a way to get out.

Wow. And just to normalize this conversation, I want our listeners to know that what she just described as the dichotomy between couples is so normal. If you have somebody, I mean, this is Tom and I. So I'll just make this personal. Tom is so good about the details of finances. He manages it, he calculates it, he tracks it.

That's why I don't have any hair, ladies and gentlemen.

And just like Amy had described, I'm the one that's doing the day to day bulk of spending. And. And I'm also the person that's going to be the first to say, you know what, it's great to save money and earn money, but if we can't enjoy money, then why have it like it's not here for us to just be stressed about it and to make all the numbers work and add up and balance that. At some point in time, we've got to be able to put that on the shelf because we're going to run out of gas. It's going to exhaust us. And there's a pivotal point of balance there. And what's ironic is that couples come into relationships and the thing that attracts us typically to the person that we are with is they have strengths that we don't have strengths with. For example, that's not a strength of mine. I'm not a detail person. I'm a creator. I. If you want a big picture vision, I'm your girl. If you want to know how to go from A to Z, like right now, and not worry about B, C, D, E, F and G, I'm your girl. I can take us there. But there is a point in time where everybody has a contribution in because if we are going to fulfill that big picture vision, it's important that we allocate in the details for B, C, D, E, F and G or we're never going to be able to fulfill the big vision. And so Tom's not so great about the big vision. He's great at the details and lining it up step by step of how we're going to get there. And you need both. Without a vision, you can't go anywhere. Without somebody managing the details, we're also not going to get there. And so we fall in love with these people, right? That go, oh, how is it you're so grounded and detail oriented? I love you. And he looks at me and goes, oh, my gosh, you're so free and expressive and you have so much fun and I love it. And you bring that into my life and I didn't know it could be so enjoyable. Oh, I love you. And then, as you said, we bring these conversations and stories about money into our relationships and all of a sudden, the very thing that attracted me to you or caused me to fall in love with you is my nemesis. Like, stop. Stop being playful and stop going to the Christmas concerts and stop decorating the house like you have lost it. He has said that to me, like, six times this last week. You have lost it. I've turned my tomato cages into Christmas trees. You've lost it. And yet. Right. I'm saying line up. Let go of the details. It's going to be okay. Enjoy this. Come out back and have a little cup of mulled wine with me. And look at these tomato cages. They're incredible. Little Christmas.

So would you say, Amy, in your practice again? This is what we do is you're able to bring in some permission and safety to have perhaps conversations that people have not been able to have on their own.

Yeah, for sure. For sure. And I mean, I think that's the role of a coach. Yeah, I wear a couple different hats. I'm a huge finance nerd.

Right.

So I wear that hat. But I've also been a couples coach for over 10 years, so, like, I wear both of those hats. But, yeah, I think I want to create the space to have that mold wine in the back with the two of you. I wish I could. I'm so far away from you.

But.

But to have those conversations, because we haven't been given that space. So to your point, Stacey, I just want to say, like, let. Let. Let us normalize those conversations amongst ourselves, but let us also normalize those conversations to have the expectation from whoever you have conversations with around finances. Right. That it's like, lay it all out and be vulnerable. Be vulnerable. Their partner, financial coach, advisor, whoever that person is. For you. That's the piece. I want to make sure that we're not assuming that, oh, just because we got married and we put our finances together, we're going to see things in the same way. I'm sure, Tom, you know, Stacy, you know, you might say, oh, what are you doing this week? You're going cray cray.

Right.

But at the same time, you know her enough to know the joy that that's bringing to her.

No doubt.

Right?

No doubt.

Where it becomes an issue with the folks that I work with. And, you know, I don't know about your finances, obviously, but with the folks that I work with, something has come to a head. And it's not often that it's necessarily, oh, we have this debt or something like that. Although that's a piece of folks coming to me. They're saying, I'm not sure we're doing the best that we can. Right. We're Making good money. But we have this experience of stress around finances that we don't really feel like should be there. Why is that Continually there? And they want someone to come in and help shine a light, right? Bring through some of those blind spots that they can't see themselves of. Why that is an issue for them. Because there's, again, a lot of shoulding, like, well, we should feel more comfortable. This shouldn't be an issue this year. Or while we're making more money than we have before, we should be able to go crazy with the decorations for everything or buy this for all we're doing well. But still, someone in the relationship doesn't feel as confident about that. So how do we move the needle for that? You know, a big piece, I think, is that couples, they have this stress, they have this anxiety around money, but that is an effect of all of this without that planning. But the other piece of it is we allow these, you know, futile, sometimes, like, we allow this stress, we allow this anxiety, these disorganized finances, to get in the way of some bigger things. We allow that to get in the way of us taking a leap to start a business or a podcast or making a move or pulling back on hours or putting more hours in at work or whatever. And that's the piece I'm really committed to, is like, yes, I don't want you to have the stress and the anxiety, but I also don't want you to miss out on what your purpose is here. You know, and that is what I see over and over, is the financial crap gets in the way of people fulfilling on those dreams or their greater purpose.

So well said. And what if we approach this conversation just because we know everybody has a contribution in, you know, and what I just described, and I see this in my clients as well, we get so hung up on our position. Right. And. And opposites absolutely do attract. And there's a reason for that. You know, we could go into conversations around science and quantum physics and polarity, etc. But there's a why we attract to us what it is that we want to learn and become or develop or know that there's a. An insignificant place of lack of skill, shall we say, or lack of understanding or knowing. And so we are going to choose the person in the room that we feel would be the best person to help me grow into the next evolution of who I am, even if that sometime is highlighting the challenges that I bring to the table. And so essentially, where I'm going is that everybody has a contribution in especially when it comes to holiday spending and experiences or starting a business. Some of those things that you've talked about. It's good to have somebody who's managing the details and essentially says, I'm concerned about this. It helps keep the dreamer's feet on the ground. There's a place of foundational support there that you wouldn't want to be without. Even though at times it can be very frustrating. There's somebody who's pointing to the details of saying, hey, I'm not comfortable with this. We need to talk about this. And the other person is saying, ah, let it go. Let's take that trip. Let's buy that extravagant present or host that party. And yet there's such value when we can sit back and as you had suggested in the very beginning, be curious about what the emotional drivers are. That's the place where everybody can contribute in. Right? Because everybody does intrinsically, intuitively have a contribution. And so essentially, in these conversations, everybody's right. Instead of trying to decide who's right and who's wrong, everybody's right.

So taking our. Taking our listeners on, on the journey. Okay, Amy, So, so they. We're having this conversation. We're being curious, we're asking, you know, we're asking our partner, our spouse, our husband, you know, okay, you want to have this party. They've had this. And so now how do we get to the numbers then? Where do we go after that? We've had this conversation. Perhaps we've never had one of these before. Everyone is feeling hurt. We always say you're after three things you want to know, you matter, appreciated, and you know, and that your, your opinion matters. Right? That's really all of us are asking for in some unique way. So we, we're feeling good in those areas. So where do we go next with your, your, your, your mastery.

Well, may we add, we, we are willing to let go of a lot of things once we feel those three things, like you could be really like digging your heels on the ground. But once I feel like I've experienced being heard, feeling like I matter. Right. And that I'm appreciated for what it is I am doing my best at, it's amazing what I can finally go, oh, that doesn't matter. Nope, take that. No, no, don't care, don't care, don't care.

So then where do we go?

After you.

Where do we bring in your beautiful numbers master?

So that really is the crux of the matter, is, is feeling heard in that way. Because when we are to your Point, Stacy. Some of the things fall away. Some of the quote unquote, need for, and I'm not against the decorations, the experiences, the travel, all that, but some of the need for that or even the desire for that falls away. There's things that we will let go of that we won't necessarily bring to the table because we're feeling heard, we're feeling important, we're feeling that we matter. So that, I mean, from a numbers perspective, that takes more items off the table and saves you more money. Like, really, you want to save money? Be curious, ask questions, and listen and make sure your partner feels heard and appreciated. That's your cost saving tip for today.

You're welcome, ladies and gentlemen. That's called fairy dust. You want to make sure you understand how to use it.

And that concludes our show for today, ladies and gentlemen. We'll see you next week.

No, I mean that. That is the piece around it. And then to say, like, okay, how much do we want to spend for this holiday season? I say come up with a budget. Come up with a budget for the month of December, because it is a very special month, no matter what those holidays are that you celebrate, especially, you know, if you work a job. My husband's a high school teacher. He and my boys are gonna be off for 16 days. Okay. I'm just telling you, half of the month, my children and husband will be home. Okay? My point is we're gonna spend a lot more money just by virtue of them being home.

Right?

So that's part of it as well. It's not just the gifts. It's not just the time with family. It's not just a little travel that we'll do here or there. It's that time at home. So deciding on what's the number that we feel good about. And I'm really big around requests, so making a request of, hey, I'd like to do this, and the answer from the spouse is yes, no, or a counteroffer, right? I'd like to go away for the weekend and fix in $600, you know, at Hershey park or something like that, which is near us. Are you aligned with that? Are you not aligned with it? Or do you have a counteroffer around that? Then we come up with a number. Now, we can plan around that number, but here's the big piece around the number, Tom. It's knowing. And this is a piece that I feel like people miss a lot around finances is they budget in one month increments. So they're like, okay, this is what we're going to make for the month. This is what we're going to spend and we're going to be over or under. We're okay, we're not okay. Whatever. You can't do that for the holiday. You can't do that for any month. But don't do that for the holiday season as well. You need to see the impact of the choices you're making today, including the holidays, on those things you want for the future. So just to use the example of Stacy, when you're saying before she's spending this money, like you know, for example, let's make it easy and say she wants to visit family next April. You're the numbers guy. You're running all of that. If she's off spending thousands of dollars for the holidays, you know that, that trip in April, I'm making this up to visit family in Colorado isn't going to be possible. It won't be on the table anymore. She may not be able to see that connection. That's the piece I really work with around with my couples is moving out of budgeting, managing money in these one month increments to listen you say you want this. What's most important to you? Here's the impact of the choices you're making today on those things you want further down the road. For example. Right. And owning all of that. So that's the piece I'd have couples come up with. What are those experiences that are important to you? Come up with a budget and then spend that money and enjoy spending it. But also be able to see if we make these choices now, there will be things that we will or won't be able to do in the future. What's more important. That's opportunity cost in numbers. Language.

Well and Amy, okay, so that's wonderful. And tell us how because you know from the numbers not. Girl, that sounds overwhelming. Like how in the world do I keep track of the day to day to day and knowing and keeping track of how that's going to affect to my future. I would say as the, the devil's advocate here, I want it all. I, I don't, I don't want to have to sacrifice my trip in April and I want to spend for the holidays. So how do, how do we help people kind of start embracing what it is you so eloquently laid out? Because if that were the case. Right. If that were the case, if we could truly get to a place where we're seeing how our day to day spending today affects ultimately what it is we want in the future, then that will inevitably solve the financial stress and anxiety that we all carry around money. Right. And as a result of that, I'll be the first to admit that budgeting. You say that word and I immediately wilt. Yeah, right. I. I immediately go, oh, here we go. It's going to tell me all the things I can't do instead of all the things I can do. Which brings me to a wonderful saying that you have which says when you adopt the right money strategies, it makes what you truly want to do possible. And I think that is such a mind bender, even for me. So tell us how we get there. Yeah.

So I will say one of the things that I do when I work with couples is I use a unique budgeting system that I've come up with over the years. You know, I've been at this eight years now. So I deal with couples where one person really wants to look at the numbers and the other one doesn't want to look at anything. I also deal with couples honestly, where neither person wants to look at the numbers.

Right.

So that's fine. And sometimes both people, that's pretty rare that both people want to. It's usually one person more into that than the other and coming to the conversation. Let's just use Tom as an example and being like, see, Stacey, can't you see it? It's all laid out here. Can't you see how that, you know, like, you know, we think the other person should be able to see that. I've created a simplified budgeting system that I use with my clients. So without necessarily a whiteboard here explaining that or showing you how that works, works out, I have my clients really think about a couple of things and I don't know how much time. I don't want to go too far into the weeds of it, but I have them thinking about their expenses in three different categories. One is recurring expenses. So recurring expenses are like your mortgage, your cell phone payment, your car bill, same amount, same date of the month, every month.

Right.

You know how much it's going to be, you know when it's do. Typically those kind of expenses carry less stress with them, even though your mortgage might be your biggest payment, or for some families now, honestly, tuition is their biggest payment. But we know when it's due and we can plan around it. So the second type of expense is spending for the day to day, the groceries, the gas, the picking up those decorations, the takeout on Friday nights, going out for drinks with friends on Saturday, those kind of things. That's the area where we get into a little bit of trouble. This is the area where I have couples say to me, I have no idea we're spending. Why are you asking us how much we're spending on our groceries or gas or holiday counters or all that? It causes stress because we don't know how much it's going to be month to month and we find it very hard to plan around that. And this category has the most shoulding. One person in the couple thinks, well, we shouldn't be spending so much on that. Why'd you spend so much on Amazon or you know, the other person, well, this is how much things should be as compared to how much they were before. There's a lot of upset in that area. So one of my biggest suggestions take home tip for folks is to turn your day to day spending into a fixed expense, just like a recurring bill. So the way I suggest to do that is you have your bill account where all your bills, your mortgage, your cell phone, whatever being paid out of. But a lot of times folks are using that account for their day to day spending or to pay credit card bills for their day to day spending. My suggestion is set up a second checking account and call it a spending account. And then every month or twice a month, on the 1st and the 15th, if you're paid every two weeks, do it every two weeks. Transfer a set amount of money to that second checking account, that spending account, and only use that for your day to day spending. The planner and the couple will be thrilled because they'll know, all right, every two weeks $1,000 goes towards that spending account and we just swipe, swipe, swipe from there. It's not ransacking the bill account and taking away from the planner who's like, this month we're going to save $600 or this will go towards our vacation or we'll pay off debt. And then every month it gets to the end of the month and they're like, Stacy, why do we only have $5 left in this account? You know, you come, you, you create a plan around that money and then both people just use that spending account for that. It makes it so much easier to plan going forward. You could do the same kind of thing with your holiday spending. If you have that account, you could transfer that set amount of money over there so it's not coming out of the bill account. Not ransacking. Are we going to have enough to pay those bills?

Will we be able to.

Nope, it's all over Here operating on its own. That is a game changing step for I've not had that not change the situation for any couple that I work with because it brings clarity. And I will just say that even though some of the biggest issues I see couples deal with, in and out of debt, overspending, inability to save the way that they want to save, all of those I think are symptoms of a real problem. And the real problem is that we can't see our money clearly. So that step around the spending account is really a way to start to be able to see that day to day spending together much more clearly.

And so if we were to implement what it is you were saying in regards to not just doing the monthly budget, but to do this budgeting idea of spending, do you recommend we do that on a more weekly basis and then we transfer the money into that spending account?

I would just say so as we start to land this heart of the matter is so for the, for the holiday portion, so say for December, you would say come to that agreement on the numbers and then add that to that account as well?

Absolutely, you could definitely do that. And if you don't have it already set up, it's not that hard to set up a second checking account. But say you don't already have that set up tomorrow, then you could just come up with whatever that number is. And you know, if you're going to use your credit card, spend that amount, track some of that. The person, the couple who's more into the tracking can do that. But ideally you would move that amount over to your spending account and just spend from there. And as far as the weekly or bi weekly play around, I always say we're not looking for perfection here. If you can move the needle 50%, 75% and then reassess a few months down the road, you're way ahead of where you were to begin with. So don't. It's, it's a, it's not linear, it's transformational. If you put this foundation in place, then you will be amazed at where you are six months from now.

Oh, that's so cool. And it so fits into our, our principles where we figure this out as we go. And the worst thing that we can do is not take a step in a direction that we feel inspired to take because from there we're going to refine it and, and get better at it as we go. We're not going to figure it out before we go. So, Amy, tell us where people can connect more with you, learn more about Your work and the incredible gift that you are to so many couples who are trying to wrap their heads around this financial piece that quite frankly, is a really big, A big, A big deal in most relationships.

It is a big deal. I think so, too. The best place to find me is on my website, which is just Amy Scott coaching. And I've got a couple things on there. One is a free resource that's three steps, steps to up level your budget. And that is I talked about two of the three of those in this talk today and it has some questions to start the conversation in your couple. So that can be a really helpful resource. And I also lead free monthly budgeting workshops online so people can find out about that on my website.

Wow, honey, maybe we should attend.

They're fun.

Well, gosh, I can see. Amy, we're gonna have to bring you back as a regular contribution contributor to this. This is one of the huge places there's. You know, again, Stacey and I were just sharing this last night. You know, there aren't. It's really not as confusing as we like to think. And we find over our years working with our clients and money is one of them. There's not too many places where it really causes the challenge and money is a big one. So thank you so much for your contribution today and we will have you back to help us navigate this. It's a very dynamic situation for all of us and it's very personal to all of us as well.

Maybe we can have you back to do a budgeting workshop right here on the show.

Yeah.

There you go.

That's something you would like as a listener. Let us know. Let us know that you'd love to hear that. So, Amy, it's always such a pleasure and such a delight, such an incredible person and soul. I love your work and I love what you do and how you do it. Thanks for being here.

Thanks for having me.

We're going to take a quick break and when we come back, we're going to talk about our Follow the Fun. And because it is the first of the month, we are going to be.

Doing a giveaway, a very special giveaway, I might add. So stay tuned. Come right back.

We'll be right back.

I met Stacy and Tom about two years ago. I was at a point in my relationship where I was ready to file for divorce. Not that I wanted to, but I just felt hopeless and helpless. I'd been through other counseling and coaching and didn't find any success with Stacy and Tom's methods. I was able to eliminate insecurities, set boundaries, plant my flag, eliminate rabbit holing. I was separated from my wife for a year and I have since moved back home for the last six months. Now I still refer back to a lot of the teaching that Stacy and Tom provided and it's helped me. It's well worth it.

Learn the simple three step system to rescue your struggling relationship by registering for Stacy Stacy's brand new free workshop. Reserve your seat by going to stacybartley.comworkshop.

On the path to good health and well being.

Alternative Talk 1150 is the station for you.

Welcome back everyone. We're going to jump right into our Follow the fun. Thank you so much to Amy Scott and her awesome advice about how to navigate this very, very stressful time for some of us in the holidays, if you will. And we have a really fun this is the first show of every month. We have a giveaway and we have a very, a really cool giveaway.

I, I think, well, one of them is our cards. We have some conversation cards that are great for the holidays.

We call them conversation cards for connection.

Yes. And so we're just going to pull one really quickly here and show you how they work. I'm just going to randomly pull one out of the deck and we're going to give one of these away today in our giveaway along with Sherry Ballou's book, say it now. And she's going to be a guest.

On our show next week. Yes.

This is the reason why we're bringing it up today and giving it away as part of a bundle with our cards. And the book is she has incredible gift ideas to be able to give the people that we love and care about the most a gift that lasts without breaking the bank. So it's very applicable to our conversation today around budgeting. You know, it's not so much what we spend. And Sherry's going to give us some incredible holiday gift ideas about how to set, say how you really feel about this person and make it a memorable moment. And that's going to be incredible. So she has a whole book about that that we're going to give away today with our cards. But just a quickly like okay, honey, pick, pick a card, any card. And this card is going to have a question on it. And this question, as we share a little piece of me with you and you share a little piece of you with me, it creates connection. That's how human connection.

And this card is, when was the last time you surprised someone with a gift gift for no reason? I swear I Don't make this up. Yes.

Well, I think the gift that I just recently gave you about, hey, we're gonna go down and we're gonna see a play. It's going to be incredible. And brace yourself, because it's going to be a William Shakespeare, but it's going to be good. Was a surprise.

Yes, it was. And we took our. One of our wonderful granddaughters, too, so. So again. And you can find out more about our conversation cards for connection@stacybartley.com forward/cards. And we're really excited there. It's the 2.0 version. We didn't point 0 version. But we're gonna have Sherry on next week if you're feeling like. Okay, like, I understand this budget makes a lot of sense. Sherry is an expert. She's a real good friend of ours, and she is ninja at helping create gifts from the heart that a lot of them don't even take. Very, like, almost no money or very, very little. Anyone can do them.

Wow. And so let's do our giveaway for this incredible bundle. And Eric extraordinaire, we need you to pick a number between one and a hundred, and the winner that he chooses randomly will be.

And we're just going to say a part of the email so we don't, you know, don't, don't worry. We won't share, you know, everybody's full email address.

Eric, what's the number?

Boy, we didn't rehearse this beforehand. I just want people to know I don't have a particular favorite number or anything, but how about two? Oh, two.

Wow.

Nice job.

I'm gonna have to turn the page over. I thought for sure you were going deeper. And again, this list is coming from people who are on our fun Follow the fun list. You can get on the fun list for our monthly giveaways by going to our website as well. But number two is part of the email.

Is part of the email is.

It's Bartley jj. Oh, kid you not. That's somebody we know.

You know, family can be on the fun list, too.

So true. Bartley jj.

Well, how fun is that?

You are the winner of say it now. And.

And I think Bartley JJ might even be listening live right now. How cool is that?

Yeah, that's very cool.

And again, this was, I promise you this was not predetermined. This is not premeditated. So, you know, all good. We, you know, our producer, he shared like that. We just, we sprung it on him, ladies and gentlemen.

So there you go on the fun List. You get weekly tips on how to create fun in your life. And it's so important. And as we have a episode, I'm sure. I hope in the future we're gonna statistically give you science and research about how important novelty and play is in our lives and in our relationships. For now, just know that it is extremely important. It's the thing that refuels us and gives us the gas to face those challenges and conversations.

And the cool thing is that for all kidding aside, ladies and gentlemen, Stacy is a. Stacy's a science geek, and I just sent her an incredible piece of scientific confirmation that novelty and play is for real, and it really works.

And by the way, you didn't give me a reply to. You know, remember, connection is created when I share a piece of me with you and you share a piece of you with me. I shared that. I took you to the Shakespeare play. You didn't share back with me. When was the last time you surprised me?

How about when I brought you home that incredible pack of gum that our grandkids wigged out? I'm just being honest. I mean, like our little grandson said, grandma, where did you get that pack of gum? Because grandma's always the gum person. And so the grandma always has gum. Guess why she always has gum, ladies and gentlemen?

Because I buy it for her as a little surprise. And it really was.

It was actually a little pack I've never even seen before. It was so. Yeah, there you go.

It was extraordinary.

And that shows you. All kidding aside, Stacy was very appreciative, and so were our grandkids, because, Graham, they always hit grandma up. Gum.

It was in a really cool case that kind of, like, opens. You can pull the gum out of it. You know, it's amazing when we can get specific and simplistic. It's amazing what can light us up.

And it's. It's fun because I'll just set it in a place that I know Stacy's gonna find. And again, I know I'm. I'm. I'm radar. I. I got the details. You know, I got that one down. A little more spontaneity. Stacy's our fun coach, so, you know, it is a good blend, but it is a good blend.

Well, it's time to. To step into. Can you feel it? Every episode, we choose a song. And of course. Of course, because it's the holidays, there's a wonderful song that I chose called Purple Snowflake. It was originally created by Marvin Gaye.

Okay.

But John Legend has done a spectacular job of remaking this Purple Snowflake song. I encourage you to play it.

You know what and you didn't share that one with me so I'm really looking forward to hearing that. Usually I know of the song because Stacy goes through quite a few of them and and will tell me what the one that she lands on but it so here you go. We have a Love Shack Live playlist as well.

You can access this song as well as all the songs from every episode that we've ever done again on our website which is stacybartley.com and guess what?

You can still Stacey however you want it and it will take you there best we know.

So check out this week's song. Help us share this podcast if you found value today. It's been so great to be here with you. We love doing this for you. If you have a conversation that you would like us to have, a question, a a difficulty that you're going through, don't hesitate to reach out to us and send us a little message. We're here to have the conversations that matter most to you. We want to give a shout out and a special thank you to Amy Scott for being here with us. And come on back next week and join us for Sherry Belew. She's going to be here to help us create presents and gifts for the holidays that are budget friendly as well as very meaningful to the heart. Have a great week. We look forward to being back here with you next week.

Happy holidays everybody. We'll see you soon.

Bye bye for now.

Thanks for joining us today in the Love Shack. We hope you came away with something that made your toes tingle. To learn more about everything you heard on today's show, go to stacybartley.com podcast Love the Show. Help us spread the love by sharing the show with others.

Pokemon.

Okay, everybody, time to go. We gotta close the doors to the Love Shack for this week. You don't have to go home, but you can't stay here. Come back next week though and join us for another edition of Love Shack Live with Tom and Stacy Bartley.