#82: From Chaos to Clarity: A Guide to Surviving Parenthood as a Couple

Hey, thanks for coming. Welcome to the Love Shack.

Hey, welcome to the Love Shack. It's a little a place where you get to get together, explore fresh perspectives, eavesdrop on juicy conversations, and discover the things that really matter while having a little bit of fun along the way. We're Tom and Stacy Bartley, and today we are doing episode number 82, From Chaos to Clarity, a guide to surviving parenthood as a couple. Like to keep that thing intact. That's important. There are eight significant categories of life that can create chaos and drama in our relationships. Today we're going to talk about the category that is a top winner in our lives the majority of the time, and that topic is kids. Now, I want to also assure you that even though our conversation with our incredible guest, Katherine o' Brien is about newborns and bringing a new baby home into your lives, the tips and strategies and guides that we're going to give you in this conversation are also going to apply to you and be great strategies. If you're a step parent or stepping into becoming a step parent, you've got babies coming home, but they're not necessarily new. Or you've got an older child coming back into the home that's been out of the home for a while. Or perhaps like Tom and I, you're thinking about, or bringing home an elderly parent now to be cared for and loved until the end of their life. Both of these places, or all of these places, shall I say, not both, but all of these places can dramatically reshuffle the deck when it comes to being a couple, a partner, a team.

Yeah, I would say, let's just be honest, it can be tough to maintain a strong relationship with your partner when you become parents or after you become a parent and are stepping into some of these other places that Stacy just described. Between the sleepless nights, worry, and constant demands from the kids, I would say whatever their age, not to mention the never ending chores, it's easy to find ourselves feeling overwhelmed and alone.

So today in the love Shack, we have with us Catherine o'. Brien. She's an expert on the subject of bringing new baby home. But gosh, again, her tips and strategies are going to help us in many places of this parenting journey. She's an LMFT and the author of the book Happy Baby Essential Relationship Advice. When Parents become or Partners Become Parents. Katherine is committed to supporting couples when they bring children into their lives. And if you're a parent, there's a good chance you've experienced at least a little bit of chaos in your life, you think. And if you're like most parents, you also want to do everything possible to avoid letting that chaos consume your relationship and break down, right the connection that you once had with your partner. But how do we do that? And what are the important things to focus on to ensure that when the kids are gone on, the parents are strong?

So these answers, along with your personal guide for surviving the chaos of parenthood as a couple, will be yours when we come right back. We're going to take a short break. Don't go anywhere. Stay tuned.

I met Stacy and Tom about two years ago. I was at a point in my relationship where I was ready to file for divorce. Not that I wanted to, but I just felt hopeless and helpless. I'd been through other counseling and coaching and didn't find any success with Stacy and Tom's methods. I was able to eliminate insecurities, set boundaries, plant my flag, eliminate rabbit holing. I was separated from my wife for a year and I have since moved back home for the last six months. Now I still refer back to a lot of the teaching that Stacy and Tom provided and it's helped me. It's well worth it.

Learn the simple three step system to rescue your struggling relationship by registering for Stacy's brand new free workshop. Reserve your seat by going to stacybartley.comworkshop.

Hi, I'm Coach Debbie from Story U Talk Radio and I want to encourage you to write your book weekly. I offer topics about style and storytelling. I take your questions on our live show every Thursday at 4 o' clock or you can subscribe to Story U that's Capital U on any of your Facebook favorite platforms. Hi, I'm Stacy Bartley, the author of my new book Feeling Like Marriage Is Dead, A Divorce Mediator's Guide to Ensuring a Lifetime of Love. In this book I integrate a no nonsense grip on reality with a compassionate understanding of human behavior to provide you with a systemic approach to marital bliss that is easy to understand and implement in your life. Read this book to find out how to make marital magic happen. And you can do that by going to lifetimeoflove Me Again. That's lifetimeoflove Me.

Working hard to put a smile on your face. Alternative Talk 11:50.

Welcome back inside the Love Shack. We are your host Tom and CeCe but we're gonna jump into the heart of the matter. We have Katherine o' Brien here and we're talking about how to manage the challenges of parenthood while still maintaining a strong connection with your partner. Yes, that is possible if you're looking for ways to survive parenthood, Parenthood as a couple. Listen up.

Did you find it hard, honey, when you had kids?

Yes.

Yeah, me too.

Yes.

How many did you have?

I've got just a few. That added to only two from this side, ladies and gentlemen, and six from this side. I know if you're watching, but if you're listening, two on my side, two for Tom, six for Stacy. That equals eight.

We're going to share some easy strategies that you can use right away to start reconnecting as a couple again so you can finally stop wondering things like, will I be enough to go around to meet all the demands that are being placed on me? Is it normal to feel alone even when I'm lying right next to my partner? Is fighting about the kids normal? Or that parent that's sleeping in our extra spare bedroom?

Or maybe took our master bedroom and we went to the hall. We went down the hall to the spare bedroom.

Is it possible to be partners in love and partners as parents, too?

That's a good one.

I know. So to have this conversation, we have invited Katherine o'. Brien. She's here in the Love Shack with us today and she is a licensed marriage and family therapist and the founder of happywithbaby.com Katherine O' Brien knows what it's like to be an overwhelmed out of energy and out of ideas parent. She's also a beautiful human being. Katherine is also passionate about helping new parents to communicate and thrive through this transition, equipping them with effective caregiving strategies along with a happy marriage as well. She acts as California State co coordinator for Postpartum Support International and helped to establish a mother's heart here in Sacramento. She's actually our neighbor. We're gonna meet for coffee or something when we're done here. And this is a place where mothers with perinatal and anxiety disorders go to receive support. So if you're in the Sacramento area, I highly urge you to check that out. Additionally, she participates in the Sacramento Maternal Mental Health Colle Collaborative. So she is a huge advocate and, shall we say, trailblazer in bringing this conversation to light. And Catherine, I couldn't be more honored and excited for our conversation today. Welcome to the Love Shack. Thanks for being here with us.

Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here with both of you.

Yes. We know that your work is a result of a personal journey, and so I thought it would be fun for us to start the conversation with that. Right. Even though you were therapists before having your Children. I take it from your book that this is kind of the catalyst to stepping into the work that you were doing. So just tell us a little bit about that, and then we'll step into some of the incredible, profound strategies that you've. You've also created as a byproduct of needing them for yourself.

Well, yeah, exactly. I mean, I think that's so common. Like, we struggle with something ourselves, and then we're like, oh, how do I help other people? And that's how I got into doing this. I. You know, my husband and I, we had met. We had dated for about five, almost five years before we got married. I thought we had this great communication. I was a little bit older. He was a little bit older. We were so wise and, you know, going into things. And then we quickly got pregnant after getting married, and, you know, that went okay besides being really sick during pregnancy. And then we brought home our oldest, and I was like, what in the world just happened to this man that I, like, loved and thought I could communicate with and everything? And it. And it was so, like. Like, it just hit me so hard because I was like, what?

What's wrong?

Like, what is wrong? Like, he irritated me more than I had ever imagined that he could. And everything he said and did just seemed, like, super irritating. And, like, I remember for the first time, I think he really, like, hurt my feelings. And it wasn't like. Like, it wasn't a purposeful thing. We were just, like, not operating on the same wavelength at all. And so, you know, it was really difficult. And I remember calling a girlfriend when my really good friends one day as I was, like, on my way to work, and he was. He was home. It was like a Saturday. Like, I had adjusted my work schedule to go, you know, work with clients, couples and individuals. And I'm thinking I'm supposed to go help other couples in their relationship. And mine is, like, clearly you know, falling apart in, like, a matter of days. It wasn't. It had been a couple months, but. And I called her, and she answered the phone. And to this day, like, I.

Every.

I see her sometimes that I'm like, just, thank you for answering the phone that day. Like, I just really think I don't know what would have happened to me had she not answered my call. And she just listened to me, and she was very validating, and she. Her kids are about five years older than mine, so she. She had the wisdom to know that it could get better, you know, and she just listened. And she's like, well, when was the last time you were on a date? And I was like, a date. Like, we went on a date for our first anniversary. Our son was almost a month old and we were gone for like 45 minutes. But other than that, we had not spent any time together alone. And so, so she encouraged me to try to do that. And we were, you know, my mom was in town, so we were able to get some time together. And I was just like, oh, yeah, okay, I do still like him. He's still, this is still gonna be okay after all. And so we spent some time together and then I was like, we need to do this more. And then I just like, was listening. You know, I'd go to different moms groups and different like, like mom exercise classes and I would listen. You know, being a therapist, like, I listen a lot to what other people are saying. And I knew we were struggling and I feel like, you know, we had some good skills. But then I was hearing other things that other moms were struggling with and in other ways that were much harder. And I was like, how are we. How was I not prepared for this in a really adequate way? Or at least that I knew, like, this was normal, these were normal things, or what? What could I have known that would have helped us a little bit better, not struggle so much? And so I just like, kept this like, mental list going of like, oh, I wish I would have known this, this, this, this, you know.

Yeah.

Then was given like an opportunity to teach a workshop for like this new place in town that was offering different, like child, you know, preparing classes. And I was like, yes, I have the perfect class. I. I want to, I want to help couples. I want, I wanted, like, how to be prepared. How did, like, things not to fall apart, you know, or at least like things to look for. And you know, so my son, my oldest just turned 13 a couple months ago and I'm like. And we've been teaching it for like 12 years now and, and that's where our book came from was the Things I Wish I Would have Known.

I love that. And how many kids do you have now?

Two.

Okay, two. The 13 year old. And the next one is how old?

Nine.

Nine. Perfect. Yes. And, and you're, you're right. Where do we go to kind of have the conversations about what's just going to happen? Right. I mean, there's these places where we don't think about what you just described. We're going along, we're fine. We feel like we've got it together. And then Kablam. Right. I'm bringing home a new baby. Or we want to put our lives together now. Right. And we have these children that we're going to just anticipate or expect, come along for the ride. Why. Why wouldn't they? I mean, I'm so into you, and I see how incredible you are. You know, finally, this is going to go really well. I remember thinking that Tom and I had a very similar family system. And when we came together, I realized, even though I felt like there was some similarities, there are some incredible idiosyncrasies that were not aligned at all. In fact, if anything, they were polar opposites. And I. And I had a very similar experience, even putting our families together, our biological children that you just described in bringing home that new baby. Like, how can we be on such opposite pages? How can you not know some of these things that we've talked about for hours? Right. And we've experienced and. And there was a moment where, quite frankly, I didn't know if Tom and I were going to pull through it. I mean, it was like, what. That was like out of left field. Right. So I think what you do is brilliant, because where do we go to have these conversations? Where do we go to say, okay, I'm bringing my parents home. What do I need to be mindful of? What do I need to be aware of? Right. Or our older. Our older child is coming home after being married because they're going through a divorce or loss of a job. And. And we don't think about these things kind of reshuffling the deck, but they absolutely do.

Right.

Right.

Well, and I think, especially, like, when. Yeah. For all. Like, any sort of transition. But. And I think, especially when you talk to people and they're like, oh, you're having a baby. Oh, it's such a wonderful time. So what could go wrong if it's the most wonderful time? You know, it's like, well, everything. Let me tell you. When you're exhausted and. And you're constantly learning new things and you're not realizing how.

What.

What was stressful for me, there were different stresses on my husband. You know, like, we both come into it from, like, a different perspective and different experiences, so we weren't even necessarily on the same page with what we thought was the challenging parts of being a new parent. And so, like, even being able to understand each other and where each other was coming from.

Yeah. The. The individualization, I think, is something that we really don't have a grasp on. Right. We really think that if this is where my focus is or these are my priorities or these are my expectations, I really expect, especially the more closer or connected we are, that you're going to just come along for the ride. Right. Yeah. Without realizing you have your own set of things that you're going to struggle with and that. Yeah. Like press you and write your own expectations in regards to how this supposed to go.

Well, and there's nothing theoretical about it. Let's just be honest. I mean, going through this situation, you know, we could. There's nothing like the real experience. You know, this is one of the biggest ones like you had shared, Catherine. When you're brand new as a couple and then you bring this precious little human in. Yeah. What could, how could that not just be total, you know, rainbows and unicorns, you know.

Yes.

You know, so, you know.

Well, and I think that brings a highlight to, to just all of the listeners to contemplate. Anytime we're reintroducing something into our relationship, there's going to be things that you think you're going to be able to handle or things that you think you've got figured out. And the reality is we figure it out as we go. So there's always going to be some surprises. There's always going to be some things that you weren't anticipating. You know, we like to spend time as human beings talking about how we would handle certain situations. And the reality is we really don't know till we're in it. Right. You know, as sure as we think we got it all figured out. Right. Like you saying, okay, we were together, we waited, we're older, we've got great communication, like, bring it on. Yeah, well.

And we used to go like, you know, we'd be like with other friends because all our friends already had kids. And so we'd be like, come back and be like, oh, well, like, what would we do in this situation? And we had all the wisdom in the world, you know, and then you're like in it and you're like, yeah, that all goes out the window when, you know, because each. And having, you know, I'm so glad we had two kids because I can see, like they each are so comfort, both being ours, they're so completely different. And how we parent one is different than how we have to parent the other one. And what works for one doesn't work for another. You know, what they eat is different. You know, like all the things that could go be different is different. And you know, it's just like having to like, Constantly adapt and figure things out and realize, like this, this is our plan. But I better be ready to adapt for all the things I haven't thought of, because you haven't thought of everything.

Well, and I can assure you after six kids that you never get it all figured out. Like, there is no even what works for one won't work for number two. And you would think that at some point in time it just would kind of like be a cookie cutter thing. Right. And I don't know how many kids that takes. I gave up at 6.

I decided that was.

That was as far as I could.

I would just add, thank goodness ye.

But each child is so uniquely different. And doesn't that make sense? Because each of us as human beings are uniquely different, you know. So let's step into some of your strategies. Let's. Let's talk about how you've laid the book out. And I loved how you broke it into three parts because I think that's so wise, if I may say so myself, to a wonderful colleague. And the number one was take care of yourself. Right. And we hear that a lot, but it's so true. I mean, we forget that if we're not put together, we show up as good as we feel that I'm probably not going to show up so well. And that's going to add to a lot of the chaos and drama that we're trying to avoid. And then you stepped into, then manage your relationship, not the kids. And I think this is where things get really tricky because as parents, you know, we tend to err on the side of the child and then just kind of expect our relationship to come along for the ride. And so you have them in this order. Take care of yourself, take care of your relationship, then take care of the child. Right. And you lay them out just like that. So I want to give you an opportunity to talk about each of these and what are some things that we can do there. And then I hope, if time permitting, we can go through that incredible guide that you have in the beginning of your book. Like, there is 12 significant things and maybe we could weave them into these three places in the journey. There are 12 significant suggestions or strategies that you have in the beginning of your book, and they would apply every time our debt gets shuffled in our relationship as a couple. Right. So I hope that we get to highlight on each of those. So let's start with. With taking care of yourself. Right. I think especially as the mom and the primary caregiver or, or a biological parent goes through the same thing. If I'm bringing a child into the relationship, we're going to advocate for those. And, and let's be honest, we're a little bit defensive right, about it. Like, don't be, don't be bringing that over here. Right. And if we're not careful, it can become us, the couple against the kids. Right? The kid becomes the highlight, not necessarily our relationship. So as we step into number one, let's talk about take care of yourself and how that relates to the whole. Why is this so important?

Well, because. Yes, and I think it gets tricky. And sometimes people like to tell me, like, well, shouldn't we be taking care of our kids first? Like, right, because they're, you know, sometimes young, sometimes older, whatever, but they. Like, we're. It's our job to take care of them. But my idea is that we cannot sustainably care for others if we're not first putting into ourselves. And I think so often, and I see this all the time, I'm sure you do as well. Like, people are depleted. Like, we don't have anything more to give. And then it's like, you know, people get sick, you know, all sorts of things. And so it's like if we put in a little bit, even just a little bit each day for ourselves, like, and I'm talking like, I love to do, you know, big self care. Like, I love to go get my hair done and, you know, get spa treatments or whatever. But I'm not even talking about, like, are you nourishing yourself? Are you taking time to eat lunch? I'm sure you've fed your children. I'm sure, you know, the, the animals are fed. But have you stopped to, like, drink some water? Like, what are the, the basic things that we need for ourselves? Self care. But then even more things, like, you know, there's laundry to do, but you're, you're tired. Like, can you sit and rest for five minutes and then get up and do something else? Like, how are we making sure that we're, like, getting through our day every day? You know, like the small little things, but then even like the, the bigger things, like, are you needing to connect with, with friends? Like, are you struggling and, you know, you are frustrated and you can call your girlfriend or whoever and say, I'm having a hard time. And they can like, listen or offer, you know, a helpful perspective or just even validate. Like, yeah, this is a hard, this is a hard time, but it's not always going to be this hard. Like, it does get easier, you know, like sometimes I think so much we need that and it's like, okay, cool. Like I can keep going. Like, I know, like it's, you know, right now, whatever it is, like whatever you need for yourself to help you through that, the stage that you're in. But this from the small little things to like, the bigger, the bigger things.

I, I once heard someone that was a guest on the show say, doing your nails and getting a massage, and those are all really great things, but those are taking care of your physical body. I'm talking about taking care of your soul. And I loved that. And so I would just add, you know, sometimes we have a longing to go dig in the garden or go tinker in the garage. Right. Or, or sit down and do a craft or you know, attend something like play the piano, if we used to play the piano or take a class. And those things are really important to nurturing us or refueling our emotional bodies. Right.

And I would, I really appreciate Catherine. It is important and sometimes some outside reminder that this is a season of your life, it's not forever, you know, and so sometimes going through young, with young children, it can seem like forever.

Yeah. Did you panic? I used to panic and think, oh my gosh, this is going to be the rest of my life.

Yes. Yeah. And you're like, oh my. Because you don't know that there's another. There's an end. It does end. Like eventually you do get more than like three hours of sleep at a time. Like, you don't know that. You feel like that's never going to come back, you know, and you're so exhausted. Yeah. I love all those ideas. Yeah. You gave for self care. Like, and I like, I'll tell people. Like, you know, make a list of like if you have five minutes, if you have 10, 15 minutes, like, different lists of like. Because I think we can so easily. We have that time. But we can be. Get so easily. We just pick up our phone and we're scrolling and that's usually not something that fills us. That, that's not self care. Typically, you know, maybe for some people it is, but for most of us it's not. So I'm like, yeah, like, can you go outside and you know, put your feet in the grass or like color in a coloring book? Like if, like if your kids have a coloring book out, like, sometimes that can just be so like soothing as well, you know, like find those like little things that make you feel good and you're like, okay, I can keep going with this, you know, yeah, so true.

I. I remember hearing somebody say, listen, you can't be sick enough to help the sick and you can't be poor enough to help the poor. You have to have something to contribute in. Right. And that's on each of us to. To make sure we're doing what we can to refuel and. And it really does kind of come down to the basics of nutrition and spending time in nature and expressing yourself through some art form or connecting with people and making sure that you're getting enough sleep. Yes. That's so huge.

Right.

And you and I, I know in our professions, we even have to keep ourselves in check here, right? Yeah.

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

As we collaborate, it's like, hey, are you getting enough sleep? And everybody goes, oh, you know, it's really busy right now. We're like, you need some sleep.

Well, I mean, I think the wonderful cliche statement, but I always say it's not cliche because it's true. You know, you can't give from an empty well, especially to your young children or any age child for that. I mean, the most precious thing we can give someone is our presence. Right. So. And that's hard to do when we're off in 10,000 other places. Right. It's just not really a good. It's not. It's not. It's not really not. You're not able to do that.

Yeah. So taking care of yourself, number one.

Taking care of yourself, number one.

You show up as good as you feel, and if you don't feel so great, you're not going to show up so great. And sometimes that's a driver for breaking down inside of yourself because you're like, oh, why did I say that? Why did I do that? I'm such a jerk. Right? Yeah. And we start showing up in ways that we really don't want to, but we're just so depleted and we don't know how to get ahead of it. It's interesting. We feel like we can spend fast enough to get ahead of it. Right. We think that if we just pick up the pace and do more, that somehow we're going to be able to get ahead of everything that needs to be done or all the needs that we need to meet and don't realize that that's taking us into a place of, like, anxiety and restlessness and sleeplessness. And now we're going the other direction. Right. We're breaking down and not necessarily getting ahead of it at all.

Is it possible to get ahead of it?

I don't.

I don't think there's a. Yeah.

No way. I think that's an illusion. And actually the way to get ahead of it is to slow down and pause.

Yeah, absolutely. I agree completely.

Yeah. Just. Just take a break, you know, go sit in the flower bed for a minute and leave the dishes in the sink and, you know, a lot of things undone. Because if. If we're not feeling our best, then it's probably not going to go so well. So that has to be number one priority. So let's step into number two. You know, take care of your relationship.

Which I would bet most people would think it would be flip of that.

Yeah.

After yourself would be the child. And I couldn't agree with you more here. But.

Yeah.

So, yeah, share with us how. How you arrived at that order because.

Yeah, like, I'm a better. I'm a better parent when I feel like I'm a good partner, when my, when my husband and I are on the same page or at least like in the same book, maybe same chapter, you know, like, we do a lot better and our communication is better. We're better parents and it's better for the environment for our children when we're in sync with each other or, like, understanding, taking the time to listen and hear where each other is at. And so, and, you know, it's, you know, I give.

It's.

It's been a hard time, like with the pandemic and everything, and people just even having time with their partners. You know, there was a. That stage where we're. We're all in the house together. And I had people that, like, never felt more separated from each other because we were in the same place. We weren't leaving, but we were all doing our own thing. And it's like, you know, my husband and I like to try to do regular date nights. Like, that has been a thing for us, I think, probably since I had that conversation with my girlfriend. Like, it doesn't necessarily happen every week, but we make. It's a pretty regular thing. And when we can't do it, we try to make it up where we. Where we can. And so we had to find new ways, like, okay, if we're not going to go out and do something, like, how. How do we make time for each other here? And so all you would tell new parents is like, even if you're not ready to leave the baby behind and go out on a date, like, what can you know when the baby's sleeping, like, what are you doing? And setting intentions with each other, like, intentional Time, you know, and not necessarily distracted by like other things. Whether you like make a meal together or you sit down and play a game, or you just, you go outside and you know, watch the sunset. Whatever it is that feels like, okay, this is our time and I'm not going to be distracted by our phone or, you know, and ideally not even the television or, you know, Netflix or whatever that you're like, you know, spending time, like having a conversation or sometimes just sitting next to each other. And I'll even tell new parents, like, even if you're so tired, you're like, all I have the energy to do is watch a movie. I'm like, sit next to each other on the couch and don't also be on your phone while you're watching the movie. Like, and maybe you talk about what you each liked about the movie or what you each didn't like or whatever it is, but that you're having a conversation and connecting with each other in some way, but like making an effort to do that like on a regular basis. And then also just even having like those check in conversations with each other daily. Like, even if it's like your, your parents are, have moved in and you're checking in with each other, like, you know, what's, what's working well, what's not working well, like, where am I struggling or you know, where do I need more support, like having those conversations? Like, how is it for you? This is how it is for me, you know, because it's going to be different and I think it is at what other state? Or if your child is still living at home and you wish they hadn't moved out by now or thought that they were going to be moved out or whatever it is like that you're having this conversation about it because you're going to have different like, feelings or experiences about it.

So, so true. In fact, this is part of our foundational courses where we talk about, each of us have a movie. And the kicker about the movie, I'm making this up in a certain way. I have certain scenes in the movie that, that make me terrified or, or bring me joy and get me all excited. And the kicker is we're all having our own individual movie. We're literally in our movie theaters, isolated from the other. And yet our movies feel so real. We feel like we're having them together. And we hear things like, how did you know not to do that? Or why did you go there? That could be so ridiculous. And, and a foundational piece for relationships is got to Be the understanding that you're going to have certain needs and your partner is going to have certain needs, and it's the sharing of those that creates the connection and doesn't have to be all the good stuff. It can be some of the challenging stuff too, so that you can lean in on each other. You know, you can ask each other for support and those breaks and, you know, could you oversee things or help out a little more here? And I think that's what the sweet spot is. It's not the challenge you're going through, it's are you leaning in for support? Because oftentimes what we do is pull out. Yeah.

And I would, I would just add that, you know, like you said, Catherine, when you and your husband are, when you know you're on the same page for me, then it doesn't feel so overwhelming because, you know, you have someone that's sharing and walking the walk with you. I mean, why do people work out together because they know someone else is with them? It's less overwhelming when we have someone we know that is with us and can help us when we're not having our best.

Right, right.

You know, so true. Let's stop it, let's talk. And those are great things. I mean, like time together. Nothing is replacing the time together. And I get it that sometimes we get to a place where everybody says, oh, I know we need to talk, I know, I know we need to have some conversation about this, but we become afraid. And so it's so much easier to have those conversations and let them understand, unfold naturally when we're doing something that we're co creating together. And I think we forget that we're co creating life together. So we can co create over the dishes and we can co create over cooking a meal and we can co create over. Right. Many, many things, very simple things under the tree or under the table or build a fort. And some of these, some of these things seem kooky, but even at times, Tom and I have hung off the edges of our bed to just have the conversation upside down because it's so intense when we look at each other eye to eye. Just try this upside down and see.

If we can have a different perspective. It's easy, right?

And you, and you kind of take the pressure off yourself and it becomes something you can giggle and laugh about. And then with a little bit of ease, you know, it's amazing. We can always find a way through it and, and I, I just want to throw this out there for whatever it's Worth, you know, being a divorce mediator and helping couples navigate sometimes the most challenging chapters of their relationship with each other. I need you to know, listener, I want to reassure you that there's always a way through. I've never not seen a way through. As long as we keep searching. Right. And showing up in the best way possible, there's always a way to. To navigate through the difficult challenges in our lives. But it's all about how we show up and how we can lean in and get the help that we need and allow our partners to do the same. And that might take a little bit of practice. Right. That might take a little bit of learning. That might take a little bit of understanding. So on that note, let's move into taking care of child or parent or stepchild or older. Child.

Number three.

Oh, my gosh. I can't believe we're here. Like, this is crazy. I remember holding my. My first child, thinking, I'm not gonna die. Nobody's ever died for nobody. Sleep. It's gonna be okay. You know, that was the message I had to myself, is, I'm, like, rocking. Yes. So let's talk about where that fits into the mix. So if you're good, you know, you're focusing on your relationship, you're spending time, even those five or 10 minutes that Catherine suggested step into now, making room for that extra someone in our lives.

Yeah. And, you know, when we first started teaching our workshop, I. I didn't even include this as something because people were already doing it. And then I realized that there was usually one partner that was maybe doing more than the other, because maybe the other, you know, and typically it's. The dad has gone back to work, so mom is home, and she's figured out her rhythm, and he comes in, or the other partner comes in and tries to help, but doesn't do it quite right. And then there's sometimes some micromanaging going on, and then the other partner is like, well, then if I'm not, you know, if I'm being critiqued every time I do something, then I slowly start stepping back. And then I'm not really doing anything with the baby. I'm doing other stuff. And it's not necessarily what my partner wants me doing anyways. So I started adding that. I added that question in to make sure that you're each. Because you're both answering these questions, right? Like, you're each. What are you doing to make sure that you're having this connection with your child, whatever it is, and letting your partner build on that relationship, like, I, I believe we all have our own learning curves and some things are easier for us than others. And so, but you've got to let each other have, like, learn and figure things out, you know, and we can support each other, but not over, manage or overcorrect. And if it's uncomfortable for you because the baby starts to cry as they're kind of fumbling around how to change a diaper, then go to the other room or walk around the block or something, but let them. The sooner they figure it out, the easier it's going to be because you can work together to do these things. And so. And now, like, I think again, I think these questions are from now until forever, right? Like, like I thought for sure, at least until my kids move out, but now you have me really believing it's even beyond that. Because as my kids are older, like my 13 year old, I spend time carting him to soccer and making sure he's doing his homework and making sure the kids are fed and everything. But am I spending quality time really connecting and knowing who my kids are and having a good, quality relationship? I want to make sure I'm spending time doing that as well. I don't just want to be like, you know, the household manager that makes sure things run, you know, I want to have a relationship with them. So hopefully, you know, we continue to have it as they move out and everything. So I don't know. But, you know.

I know his house prices rise here in Sacramento.

We're all starting to kind of go. He keeps telling me, my oldest keeps saying he's like, five more years, five more years. And I'm like, like, what are you doing? Like, you're, you're moving out in five years. Like, we'll say something, he finds us irritating or whatever. And he'll just be like, okay, five more years. I've got to deal with you people, basically. And my youngest is like, yes, because they're four years apart. So he doesn't, I don't think it's hit him quite realizing that, oh, you're going to be with us during your high school years. Because he thinks it's going to be grand, you know, And I'm like, I hope you think so that you're going to just love us and want to hang out with us when you're in high school and your brother's gone. You know, I'm not sure what's gonna happen.

But yeah, out of my six, I had two that were like, I'm out of here. Wanted to. To go to. One went to Seattle, one went to Texas almost immediately. And then I had one that barricaded herself in her room on her 18th birthday because she didn't want to turn 18. She didn't ever want to leave home. And. And that just highlights, you know, the uniqueness and the individuality in each and every child that you have. Some are ready to take on the world and conquer and, and do their thing, and some are like, I'm not ready yet. And. And there's got to be a space.

And I would say, you know, obviously from the male perspective, you know, the mother and their bond with that child, that is a huge place for a. The man to step into. So I really appreciate. Catherine, you're sharing in perspective to. We got to figure that one out. And, you know, we're never going to replace that, but, you know, absolutely. We have a very important role. I mean, I think the, the lack of male positive presence in our families not to get, you know, but that's so important. And so, like, like, you had shared, you know, you got to figure that out with you and your partner, how you're going to navigate that and the mother to leave some space because, yes, us, we don't.

We.

We're not probably going to get the hair correct. And if we have a wonderful daughter, you know, the, the pin, you know, the pin is not. I'm never forgetting with my granddaughter, you know, like, driving her to school, you know, and like, please don't ask grandpa to deal with the hair. I mean, and thankfully there was other wonderful siblings that took care of the hair because it probably wouldn't have gone.

Well, you know, and I, I love that you highlight this in your book. You know, it was one of my. My heartwarming major takeaways, I think. Gosh. And I don't know if I could be a young mom in this environment. Right. That we have with social media, because that's not. When I was a mom, there's so much pressure and expectation to do it right and get it right. And. And we kind of somewhat panic. I noticed my, my daughters panic if, you know, like, the diapers all twisted or the socks don't match or, you know, the hair's a mess and, you know, they don't have the snacks in the bag along with the juicy and this. You know what I mean? All the, all the extra supplies. And I just go, bless our hearts. We have made this so complicated. Right? And it's going to be okay if the diaper's hanging off And. And, you know. Yeah. Sometimes it busts through and you get pee all over the car. I mean, that's just part of being a parent. Right. And to allow those things to be. And not to take it as though you're a bad parent.

Yeah.

Right. That you can laugh and find the humor in that, I think is something that is really important for us, especially as we're leaning in as couples. This can be a funny moment as much as it can be. You're never going to do this again. You don't ever get to diaper the child again. Yeah. That was ridiculous. How come you don't know this? Well? And, you know.

And it was like. And again, when I slowed down and.

Because my.

Like, I would take the kids to the park and I would load up the, you know, the stroller, and there was snacks and there was water and there was toys that my husband would take him to the park and literally put a diaper and wipes in his pocket, and they would head. And I'm like, what about the water? Will come home if they get hungry?

If there's their.

And I'm like, what? Like. And it was like. And it was almost like I thought he was crazy and losing his mind, but then it was really like, oh, wow, okay. Yeah. It's like, not the end of the world. They come home and they, you know, that's his plan, like, whatever, you know, so it's like, it gave a good perspective when I let him lead his way. Like, it helped change my perspective. Like, I don't have to have everything perfectly in order for them to make it through a trip to the park or, like. And my favorite story, kind of Tom, to what you were saying, I had been working on a Saturday. I come home, and, you know, my husband, my oldest are there, and he literally. I don't know where he found these clothes. They were, like, the smallest clothes. And so the pants were too short.

The. The.

He has, like, a midriff shirt on. Like, I'm like, there's, like, all these clothes that I have perfectly ordered from sizes. Like, so he could easily go in there and know, like, that clearly I hadn't gotten those out. And, you know, he said they had been at the park and that there had been an open house they saw. And, like, you were seen in public. You took him in public like this. But then I, like, I had to stop and think. I'm like, he was. They were both so happy. My son had, like, the biggest smile on his face. And I'm like. And I'M like, horrified. Then I realized, like, they have the best day together. Who cares what he wore? Like, clearly they know I did not dress him because, you know what I mean? Like, I was just like, okay, like, this is, this is. That's not what's important. It's important the relationship, you know, And I need to stop focusing so much on these little details that are really too stressful for me anyways to manage because they, you know, they grow so fast and all these things. And it's really like, I want to work on the relationship, the relationship with myself, so that I can keep giving into my relationship with my, my partner so that we can be the best partners and parents for our child, you know? So I think it just kind of is like a domino effect. Like, I want it to be the best, so.

And a lot of us don't realize that in our intensity to be good parents. Sometimes we push our partners out, and then later down the road, we can't figure out why they won't participate with us. And oft times, it's because we felt like it needed to be a certain way or we had these expectations, we didn't feel like they were meeting. And. And then through the criticism, which none of us do really well with.

Right.

No, I call it, you know, self doubt is the kryptonite of all human beings. The minute I start doubting myself, right, the way I did it or didn't do it, et cetera, et cetera, we're gonna break down and we're gonna implode. And then we, we're afraid to try again. We're afraid to. Even though the kids are older now, I'm afraid to step back in. And so we're setting the stage for the long haul here. And if we set it correctly, then we can go back to it when the older child comes back and home, and we can set it when the parent comes home and we've got to take care of them and for all these other places and, and if we haven't set that foundation yet, there's, it's never too late, it's never too late to come back and rebuild that foundation for our relationship so that we can set it into the priorities that you've outlined. The relationship with yourself, the relationship with your partner and the relationship with the children. And in the minute or so that we have. I mean, tell us about your, your wonderful guide. If you haven't gotten Catherine's book already, I would so highlight this book. In fact, I'm going to put it for Those of you who are on YouTube right now, oops, I'm gonna. This book is incredible. And right out of the gate, which I love. You didn't even make us work. Work for it. Right out of the gate, you give us this incredible guide.

Parents, like, who has time to read through all the little details? I wanted to put it out there, and then you can read more.

Yes. And so many of them we've touched on in our conversation of these three places in our relationships and where to highlight. I'm trying to look. I'm just looking through the list right now. Going from back to forward schedule. A date night was one that we highlighted in regards to the relationship relationships, but the one that we didn't maybe talk about is say, I love you. Right. And that's. That's a framework in our work. We call it fairy dust. You know, we all need to be reminded that we want to be appreciated and acknowledged. We really are doing our best. I really believe that. Do you see that in your work, too? I just feel like the intention is so pure. The sweetheart message underneath it all is so pure, and yet the way we execute it gets a little wonky sometimes. Right, Right, Right. Yeah. So if we could just appreciate and acknowledge our partners and realize we're all on the same page and supporting this, it would really go a long way. And then the other one that I want to make sure we get in here is don't keep score. Talk about that for a few seconds here and then tell us how we can connect with you. Our listeners can connect with you.

Yeah, I mean, I think that was. That was probably the biggest lesson my husband and I learned was that we each had our.

Like.

Like, he felt he was doing all these things. I felt I was doing all these things. So we were apparently doing the same things. And we. When we had this conversation about it, we're like, okay, because we can't keep score, because a. There's no real accurate scorekeeping method when it comes to parenting, you know, and so. So we learned that we've just got to, like, talk about where. How we're feeling about stuff, what our perspective is, and, you know, and how do we support each other if. If we're having a difficult time and what we need and if we can't support each other, like, where do we get additional support to help us during this. This period of time? And so, yeah, so, I mean, that was really. I mean, that was probably one of our hardest conversations. But what led me into, like, this needs to be like, I know we're not the only ones struggling with this. And, and I don't want to keep score because it just leads to resentment. And I just feel like it's so much harder to like, you know, and then I think of resentment, like this wall, and it's so much harder to tear down a wall than it is to, like, just have to rebuild, you know.

Sure.

Up the foundation like you said. So, you know, there's more steps that way. So it's like, I definitely, you know, how do we talk about that? So you can, you can find that. I talk more about that in the book, but at Happy and you can find that@happywithbaby.com and happy with babies everywhere, you know, books are sold.

So I love that. I'm gonna, I'm gonna end this conversation with a wonderful quote right out of your book that says, think of your family as a layered cake. It can be messy and lopsided, but if the sweetness is there, that's all that really matters. And I thought, what a perfect summary to our conversation today. Catherine, thank you so much for being here with us on the show. It's been such a pleasure. Pleasure. I'm sure we'll have you back for more conversations around how we can keep things intact when we're going through a challenging time.

I would love that. Thank you both for having me.

We're going to take a quick break and we're going to come back for our segment of Follow the Fun. Don't miss it. Don't tune out here. Follow the Fun is really important. It's an aspect in our relationships that often we overlook, but it's often the thing that will get us through.

We'll be right back.

Hey, babe. Did you know that the average couple spends only two hours a day with each other and the majority of that time is spent eating, watching TV and surfing social media rather than connecting with each other. And if children, children are involved, my gosh, it's even less time than that.

I know, babe. That's why you created our conversation cards, for connection, because they're the perfect conversation starter. So the next time you're sitting on a couch, rather than turning on the TV or grabbing your phone, pull out a card and get ready for some good old fashioned laughter and love and connection.

Now you can get your cards@staceybartley.com Real.

People, Real Life, Real Radio, Alternative Talk 1150.

Welcome back inside Love Shack. Thank you so much for being with us. We're going to step in to Follow the Fun. But before we do that, if if what we talked about with Catherine, you know, you really resonate. You're going through a challenging time, perhaps with a newborn or with an adult child that's maybe moved back or has been with you longer than you like, or maybe you're moving a parent back. This is exactly how Stacy and I can work with you and support you. And that typically looks like a couple different ways. One of them is to schedule an online session or in person session. But if you're not in the Northern California area or in the Sacramento area, we work with people all over the world via Zoom or via. Yeah, well, that's how we do it is via Zoom. As long as you speak English, we can work with you. Or you can go onto our website and we have a brand new five days to save your relationship. There's 15 minutes a day for five days. And that'll be a very good place for you to start and really understand the foundation and how we really, really look at relationships. And the better that you understand how relationships really work, the better success you're going to have.

Yeah. So relationships are really an act of co creation or creativity and we can choose to recreate them as often as possible. And if we don't, we become stuck in something old, boring and inadequate over time. And the easiest way to quit, to quit, I keep saying quit. I can't talk. To create something new is to have a little bit of fun and novelty. And oft times when we're struggling and we're going through a challenging time, the fun is the first thing to kind of get set to the side and deem to be unnecessary. We don't have time for fun. We got problems to solve, for heaven's sakes. And so for this reason, we do every single week a follow the fun moment because it's so important and we're doing everything we can to try and inspire something in your relationship that can cause you to laugh for a moment or reshuffle the deck enough that you can see, okay, we got this. We can, we can see this.

And if this is a place where you tune off when I get it, you know what? I would challenge you just, just, just to, just to lighten up, take a pause, take a breath, you know, and because think about it. When you first came together with your special someone, I can promise you there was tons of novelty and news and first. And it's the first thing that typically goes when people come in to start working with us. And you know what? Before we try to figure out the rest of our life we have to make sure there is some. And these are not. These are not, you know, like going to the Ritz Carlton. These are very, very simple things that you can put into your life right now.

Well, and today is the first Thursday of the month. And the first Thursday of every single month, we do a giveaway. And so we're ask our incredible engineer to randomly select a number from 1 to 100. But maybe first, before we do that, I should tell you what the prize is. Right?

And if you're watching, that's because you're watching and you can see this on YouTube if you're listening. We'll describe what Stacy's coming up right now.

So this is a luminary. And if for those of you who aren't Vincent van Gogh fans, this is a Vincent van Gogh painting. Now, it's just. It looks like a little plastic bag, but there's a couple things here for novelty and fun. You can take this on a picnic and put flowers in it because it holds water. But you can also use it as a luminary. So let's say you're doing a night picnic and you're somewhere and you need a little bit of light for those.

That are listening, pouring some water carefully into the bag, the Vincent Van Gogh.

Little light that it comes with. And when you plop it in the bag, look, it lights up.

That's the only way it lights the water, is the activation for the light.

And then you dump the water out and you fold the thing back up and put it in your pocket and you reuse it again. So it's totally reusable. So this luminary, it can be a flower vase, too, if you want to get romantic or you need a little bit of light to set the mood. This is our gift today. So. All right, Eric, now we're ready. One from a hundred. Whoever the winner is, we're going to send this.

We're going to reach out to you, and we're going to. We're going to ship it to you.

Yes.

All right. What's your number, sir?

Well, I believe Mother's Day is coming.

Up this Sunday and what a nice.

Mother's Day gift this would be. So let's go with the 8th.

Nicely done. Nicely done. We're going to give just part of the. To respect people's privacy. Just part of the email, and we'll reach out to you.

Oh, yeah. And this is a wonderful Adophila. A-P-H-I L a.org I'm just going to give you the end of it, because that's very unique.

So we'll reach out to you and ship this to you. You need to get on our fun list, and you can do that and go to our website and it will share with you how exactly to get on our fun list.

Well, you got to be on the fun list in order to win the prizes. So if you're not on our fun list, I would encourage you to get there as well as you're going to receive emails every week with fun tips and ideas to create little.

And another thing we do every week, and it's at the end of our show. If you. If you've listened to us for a while and if you haven't, if you're brand new. Thank you so much. But we always finish something. Can you feel it? And Stacy and I were sitting last night, we went through a number of songs. I'm not always involved in the choice of the song sometimes because we're at different places in our daily schedule or nightly schedule. But last night we were. And we. We settled on this. And something that Catherine said or whatever reminded me of why we chose this.

So, in fact, I had a really difficult time. Not like I was talking about this song.

Right. So the song is.

Well, let's go back to the conversation for just a minute. When we were talking about, like, not being able to, like, dress the baby properly or. Oh, no.

Well. And when her son kept saying, five more years, five more years. Five more years. Then I'm going to be out.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

This song is all about that. And so imagine and the. And the child.

I know you can tell we're excited about this. This is. I saw Trace Atkins in concert, and this song brought me to my knees. While I was standing in the. The grass watching him in an outdoor.

Concert, did you get emotional?

I, I.

Well, you know, ladies and gentlemen, Stacy ever gets.

I never get emotional.

You're gonna miss. This is the name of the song. Check it out.

Yes. And he talks about, hey, you know, even if it's messy and the diapers are hanging off and there's dishes in the sink and laundry in the washer, you know, you're gonna miss this. You're gonna look back. And that is so true. Like, I look back and I think about the kids and being a young mom and some of the challenges that we've gone through. And there's elements of that that it always. I reach for and go, ah, I'm gonna miss this.

We gotta wrap this one up. Ladies and gentlemen. Thank you. So much for being with us. Thank you to KKNW and our engineer, Eric Ryder, and we will see you same time, same place.

May I just say thank you to our listeners? It's because of you the show keeps growing. Keep sharing it. We so appreciate you. And if there's anything you want to talk about, you can reach out to us and have that conversation on our website until we see you again next week.

See you soon.

Have a little fun and talk to you soon.

Thanks for joining us today in the Love Shack. We hope you came away with something that made your toes tingle. To learn more about everything you heard on today's show, go to stacybartley.com podcast Love the Show. Help us spread the love by sharing the show with others. Okay, everybody, time to go. We gotta close the doors to the Love Shack for the this week. You don't have to go home, but you can't stay here. Come back next week, though, and join us for another edition of Love Shack Live with Tom and Stacy Bartley.