#83: The Forgiveness Factor: Why Learning to Forgive is the Key to a Happier, Healthier Relationship

Hey, thanks for coming. Welcome to the Love Shack.

Hey, it's time to welcome you into the Love Shack. It's a little place where we get to get together, explore fresh perspectives, eavesdrop on juicy conversations, and boy, do we have one for you today. As well as discover the things that really matter while having some fun along the way. We're Tom and Stacey Bartley. It's great to be here with you. This is episode number 83. We're going to be talking about forgiveness and the forgiveness factor in our relationships and why learning to forgive is the key to a happier, healthier, joyful relationship. Let's be honest, it's hard to be happy and healthy in our relationships when we're carrying around a lot of anger and resentment for our partners as well as like self beat up guilt and shame into ourselves.

And do you find yourself experiencing anger and frustration at the sight and sound of your partner?

Yeah, I've been there.

Do you have a hard time obsessing over old arguments or feel hurt over things that happened a long time ago? For sure, these are huge signs forgiveness is desperately needed in your relationship, like right now.

So today we're going to learn how to forgive and how it can be a key to a happier, healthier relationship. And we have a wonderful guest. And Kelly Calabrese is joining us in the Love Shack today. She's behind the scenes as we speak and she's going to share her own personal story of divorce and how she was able to turn her story from trauma into joy by learning the simple act of forgiveness. By learning to forgive, we can open ourselves up to more joy and love in our lives. It is true, but oftentimes a very difficult thing to implement into our lives. So today we're going to offer some simple ways for you to step into forgiveness yourself. Our conversation is sure to be full of encouragement for anyone who is experiencing anger and frustration in their relationship right now. Maybe you're going through a divorce, maybe you're fearing like you're nearing the end. Kelly's own story of triumph over tragedy is one that you don't miss. We're going to take a quick break and we'll be back to introduce you to our incredible guest in the Love Shack.

I met Stacy and Tom about two years ago. I was at a point in my relationship where I was ready to file for divorce. Not that I wanted to, but I just felt hopeless and helpless. I'd been through other counseling and coaching and didn't find any success with Stacy and Tom's methods. I was able to eliminate insecurities, set boundaries, plant my flag, eliminate rabbit holing. I was separated from my wife for a year and I have since moved back home for the last six months.

Now.

I still refer back to a lot of the teaching that Stacy and Tom provided and it's helped me. It's well worth it.

Learn the simple three step system to rescue your struggling relationship by registering for Stacy's brand new free workshop. Reserve your seat by going to stacybartley.comworkshop.

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Hi, I'm Stacey Bartley, the author of my new book Feeling Like Marriage Is Dead A Divorce Mediator's Guide to Ensuring a Lifetime of Love. In this book I integrate a no nonsense grip on reality with a compassionate understanding of human behavior to provide you with a systemic approach to marital bliss that is easy to understand and implement in your life. Read this book to find out how to make marital magic happen and you can do that by going to LifetimeOfLove Me. Again, that's LifetimeOfLove Me.

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Welcome back. Inside the Love Shack episode 83. We are your host, Tom and Stacy Bartley and we have our guest Kelly Cabris will be joining us in just a moment. All about Forgiveness. We're going to step right into the heart of the matter.

It's time to discover all the records, requests that we have for forgiveness and all the many ways that it shows up in our lives. It really is something that's somewhat of an opportunity as well as a practice and it's something that may be missing in your life right now. I want to show you and have a conversation with you about how to step into forgiveness and how it will help you live a more loving, fulfilling, joyful life regardless of what your relationship status is. So we've brought in a special guest today and when I first crossed Kelly's path, it was really her story of trauma and triumph that she overcame through her divorce. And I just thought I've got to share this with our Love Shack listeners because I know it's a story that you're going to resonate with. She has lived through many of the things that we fear may happen in our lives. Many of us have lived that journey through having to embrace or face a divorce or find ourselves in the aftermath of that. But sometimes even the beginnings of thinking you're nearing the end, the story will be applicable as well. Kelly is a wellness coach and speaker and an author with a focus on forgiveness. She has three science degrees and 27 certifications. You got that right. 27 people. She makes herself study a lot and practice a lot and teach a lot. And so it's one of the things that I really respect about her. She's a wellness related person, including fitness, weight loss, energy, aging and sleep. She also leads a spirit, mind, body approach to well being and often speaks on topics such as joy, love and purpose. She's also a certified divorce coach and she has helped countless people get through the grief of separation, divorce and post divorce life. Her goal is to help everyone she meets live their best life possible, which. Okay, who can't get on board with that? So let's welcome to Kelly to the show. Welcome to the Love Shack, Kelly. It's great to have you here. I know today's conversation is going to help so many of our listeners today, so thank you so much for being willing to be courageous enough to share that story with us and show up and share some of your genius with us today. It's great to be here with you, Stacy and Tom.

Thank you. I am so happy to be here. So excited and thankful.

Yeah. So let's start with your story. Let's start with how it is you had to start facing the idea of forgiveness in your own life. Right. Because it's usually a circumstance or a situation that we find ourselves in where we kind of go, dang, right? This is, what am I going to do with this now? Yes.

You know, forgiveness is so interesting. It is definitely part of the healing process around grief. Regardless of whatever your grief is, if you lost a job, a child, it's any loss at some point, forgiveness is an important component. So when my husband of 25 years came home and said, my commitment to our marriage is zero and he left, that was the thing that took me to my knees, emptied me out, made me question everything in my life and sent me on this sabbatical as I lovingly referred to it as to really figure things out. And so for about three years, I really did a deep dive on how do I stop this pain? How do I get better? What was my part? How do I never do this again? And at the end of the three years, I really came up with eight different things that I felt moved the needle taking me from GR to great to really fabulous. And one of those things was forgiveness. And unfortunately, it was one of the last things that I figured out. I wish I could say I figured that out first, but it was definitely one of the most important and moving things. And you know, if you heard my story, you would cry. It was terrible, it was unjust, it was unfair. I don't have to look far for people who have far worse stories than I did. But it was just my turning point and how I really got to discover what forgiveness was about.

Well, so if you would. We don't know your story. I know your story, but nobody else knows your story. So if you could give us kind of like the, the summarized version just so that people know that what you're talking about and what you're about to share comes from a genuine place, I think that would be really powerful. So if you don't mind, share your story with us.

It was happy to do that. And I never mean to put my former husband, you know, in a bad light in any way, but I was very committed to our marriage. I had just put out a best selling book called mom and Dadpreneurs. My entire life was about my family and my children. And so it really came as a shock to me. And in my marriage, I was the provider for the most part and you know, really was the superhero that always was able to have income and get to keep the house in order and the kids in order and all the things. So it really came as a shock when he came home and said he was leaving because when I met him, he already had been married. He was bankrupt, he was divorced, he was foreclosed on. He, you know, there were so many things that I just thought, he'll always love me, he'll never leave. So that was part of my false beliefs because he did wind up leaving and he was remarried really quickly, within a few months of our divorce. And our divorce didn't take very long. So it was just heartbreaking, really. It felt like an attack and a physical, guttural tearing of my soul because I was blindsided by it.

And like most of us, because I've been in that situation personally myself, I think that's why I connected so well with you. When we, we met and, and had this conversation about the show is this idea that, hey, really, I am a catch. And what do you mean you want to leave? And so then what's wrong with me? You know, it's all of a sudden like the lens get on you in this micro way and you kind of go, well, gosh, if I can't even make this person happy, what the heck is wrong with me? Did you have any of that experience?

You almost need to do that. It's interesting because when we talk about forgiveness, we always think about the other person who's hurt us. You know, there's an ancient book of wisdom where a bunch of brothers throw the other brother in a pit. And we always identify with the brother in the pit, and we never think about the brothers who pushed him in the pit because at some point we've also hurt other people. So when I sat down and realized that I was still bitter and I did not want to get up, literally, it was fourth of July weekend two years ago now, and I said, I'm not leaving this couch until the bitterness is gone. And I got a hold of a book called Forgiving Forward. And what I found was that it was actually easier to forgive him than it was to forgive myself. And it wasn't that I was this terrible wife or evil, but I needed to own my part. I didn't know that I was an enabler. And what happens a lot of times in relationships is you both get in a different end of a ditch. So he was pretty foolish and irresponsible. So I became hyper responsible and controlling. And neither one of those are good or healthy, but somewhere in the middle would be most excellent. So that's just where I was. I was like, wow, it must have really been hard to live with a perfectionist. And being an enabler wasn't serving him or me because I always felt resentful because I was always providing him the things he needed. So it really allowed me to hold the mirror up and own my part in forgiving myself because I felt like a failure. That was really the biggest thing for me because I was burning myself, holding my own feet to the fire, like, no, you're going to punish yourself. You were not supposed to fail. This was not supposed to happen to you. You were the good girl. You went to Catholic school, you did all the things in the right order in life. And. And I was punishing myself. So forgiving myself was way harder than forgiving my ex husband.

And I think that's so true for all of us. And, and I so resonate with your story. I. I too turned into the perfectionist and saved a wonderful man who was a ton of fun but completely irresponsible and had some mental health and addiction challenges. And I thought, oh, I'll be able to love him enough that we can get over this, right? I've got enough love and ability and right vitality and smarts to get us to the top of the mountain, right? There's a superpower right where you think, aha, I'm not only going to save myself, I'm going to save you. And I was trying to redeem myself from being able to disappoint my family and becoming pregnant at 17 and then violating all my religious, communal kind of principles. And so this was my moment where I was going to redeem myself and show the world and myself that I was capable and I was good enough and I could do it and I could do it by the book and check all the boxes. And I turned into this perfectionistic monster and there was no wiggle room for him to screw it up like. And then of course, we all know how that goes, right? It's like you can't shame or blame or guilt a person enough to inspire them to grow, to want to become better, to want to improve the relationship both with themselves and us and our family. And little by little, he just shut down more, Shut down more, acted out more, acted out more. And at the end, yes, when I left, left, it was all about the forgiveness of myself. And I think that is the hardest part. I think seeing outside of ourselves exteriorly is easy. Correcting other people's life's problems and where you should forgive and not forgive, right, that's easy. But taking that lens and shining it on ourselves and being self observer, observant is, I think, some of the most difficult work that we do.

I would call that a Big Gulp moment.

Yeah. Yes, very true. And I was a coach, so I went into it thinking, I can fix this. Oh my goodness, I'm the firstborn, he's the baby. You know, I know coaching skills. And I was 22, he was 33 at the time. And so the lesson there was, you can't go into any relationship thinking you're going to fix someone. The number one thing, the universal thing everyone wants is to be loved unconditionally for exactly who they are. They don't want to be changed by you. You can go in and set your own example, but you can't go into any relationship think thinking you would change someone. So that was one of my mistakes. At 22 years old, thinking I'll fix this.

Me too. I got enough love in the tank for the two of us.

I wish I was half as smart as I was a number of years ago.

Yeah.

Did you. Did you have a similar story?

Sure.

Where you were gonna save the world?

Yeah. No, I think what Kelly just shared, I mean, no kidding, that's a big goat moment. Because I would never. My beloved mother, bless her heart, never stop step into relationship exactly as it is not what you hope it's supposed to be, you know, and so similar to you. Yeah. I mean, my first wife and I. Roxanne, I love you, you know, but none, you know, we can set the example. And again, demonstration, you know, is, is, is the most powerful thing I think any of us can do. And hopefully that may be the inspiration. But yeah, we need to be clear, I think, as to what our expectations are when we're stepping into a relationship.

So I just want to point this out and, and it's only because we have traveled the journey of forgiveness, which is the topic of our conversation today. But listeners, you have three human beings who have come at the same moment, in the same juncture with the same understanding about forgiveness colliding here in what we would call an energy convergence. We have had our wrestles with when to forgive. We have had reasons to be bitter, to be angry, to make them pay. For sure I do. I'm sure you do, Kelly. Tom, I'm. I'm sure you do. And your story as well. And the way through for all of us was the ability to look with inside of ourselves and the job really wasn't to forgive our partners, which I don't know. Let's just, let's give a shout out to all of those like, like my ex husband, Dale was the greatest thing that ever happened to me because he taught me how to reconnect with myself and the ability to heal. And that it really wasn't about what he was doing or not doing. It was about me and how I was showing up and what I was allowing into my life and not allowing into my life. And I could spend my entire life blaming and pointing fingers at him. And yet he helped me grow into the person that I am today. And I say to him every time I talk to him, thank you so much for playing your role. Because if you had played your role according to protocol, right, I would not be the person I am today. And he blew my whole paradigm, my whole life right up. I mean, like, if you could explode one little teeny tiny fractal. He did a really great job of that and had me evaluating everything in my life, which was the best thing that ever happened to me. So for him, I'll always pay homage and gratitude. Right. Even though there were some really messed up, dysfunctional things that, yes, if I wanted to focus on those things and make him pay and be angry and bitter, they're there. But I choose to use it as something because it was absolutely that as well. The ability to help me grow and expand and become more of who I had the capacity to be. And I would love you to speak to that, too, Kelly and Tom. I mean, I think just so that everybody can see, okay, these are three different human beings coming from three different circumstances and three different walks of life. And in this conversation, you can see that, yes, when you can find your way to forgiveness, it is a beautiful place to be. And so much empowerment comes out of that as a result.

I agree completely. Looking back now, I can say, thank God it is not my life anymore. Thank God he had the courage to leave. Now, it took a long time to say that, but I look back and say, I'm so happy that's not my life. If he didn't leave, I was not super happy in the marriage and he wasn't either. So would it have been better if we just limped along miserable till death do us part, Both of us being frustrated and unfulfilled and bitter and angry and not, you know, feeling completely loved? So now I can go, wow, I'm so thankful that he had the courage to leave. As hard as it was, as you feel like you ruin your children's lives, you know, all those things in the moment, I would not be as strong, as confident, as peace filled, as bold, as happy as I am now. And it's four and a half years later and I'm not even dating, it's like, oh, there's this amazing man in my life. Just me. I am so good with me and who I am and my authentic self and how I show up in the world.

That's so beautiful. And. And that really is those opportunities where the deck I say gets reshuffled, right? You think you're going down this path and you've got it all figured out and you know how it's going to go. And then kablam, right? The deck gets reshuffled and we're like, hey, wait a minute. This wasn't part of the story. This wasn't what was supposed to happen. Now, you know, according to my expectations and what I'd been taught was true, if it by the book, which was really driving my show, too. And, and what do you have to say about that?

Well, similar. I mean, you know, if there's two people involved, obviously it's never one person's fault, you know, I mean, so, you know, I've always tried to do my best to acknowledge the wonderful contribution that, you know, my first wife, Roxanne had, and she's the mother of my wonderful two children, for heaven's sakes, you know, I mean, so it takes two to make it go and two to not make it go. And. Yes. I mean, one of our basic tenets in our body of work, there's no such thing as a failed relationship, which has to do a lot with forgiveness, because every relationship you've ever been in will be in. Helps you become a better version of yourself if that's how you hold it. And I always like to remind people, forgiveness is for you, doesn't matter at all. At least that's my experience. And we'll get Kelly's, too. But it doesn't matter whether it's received or whatever, it's all about you. And if this person that you're extending the forgiveness to doesn't accept it, well, that's on them. So, you know, it is very, very much use you centric, if you will, and, and we're going to talk about, you know, that's. I don't like to just say, you know, just, just let it go, get over it. Well, can you give me another cookie? I mean, what else you got there? I mean, that's, that sounds good in logic, but this is not a logical process. This is all emotion and feelings.

Yeah, no, and that's so true. We can't just tell you to get over it and let it go, and you're going to be better off for it. It. But we all know logically that that's probably the way through. So how do we get ourselves to that point in time? And so let's, let's, let's talk about that. Let's talk about, okay, what, what are some of the things that we picked up along the way or that we learned to help us point ourselves when we were going through these very challenging situations in our own lives that caused us to reach and maybe contemplate the idea of forgiveness for ourselves and our situation.

Your forgiveness is really a conscious, deliberate, intentional decision to release any feelings of resentment, vengeance, bitterness towards a person or even a group of people that may have harmed you. And here's the kicker, whether they deserve it or not. So we're not saying that what they did was right or we're condoning it or just in any way. Horrible, unjust, terrible things happen, especially behind closed doors, especially in marriages. So we're not not condoning it in any way. But it's a decision that you make and it is medicine for your soul, for healing. And you're really extending mercy to others who don't deserve it. But what's the alternative? We see people who don't forgive and you can almost feel them when they come in the room because they have this energy of, you know, just victim and chaos and they have to tell everyone, when you're in pain, you're going to do something. So you're going to turn to addiction, you're going to escape, you're going to isolate, you're going to just tell everyone that you meet, you're going to gossip. You can do something that's not healthy and it goes back to some unforgiveness against another person or even yourself. So the reasons to forgive are it gives you peace, it gives you joy. You're basically laying it all down, you're getting it out of you and it lessens the grip that you have on yourself or the other person, really freeing the control against the person who has harmed you. So again, doesn't mean you're excusing anything. But when you do forgive, it's increasing your self esteem, you're developing this inner strength. It's reversing, you know, the damage that was done because you've released it. So you'll find depression, anxiety will go, you'll start to find more meaning and purpose in your life, even having PTSD symptoms. And there's research that shows that people reduce those symptoms and feelings when they have forgiven the person who offended them, including themselves.

No, that's so true. I, I 100% agree with you. Forgiveness is a wonderful gift that we give to ourselves. And I just want to emphasize that it is a journey and it is a practice and it is something that you acutely focus on. It's not just something that falls out of the sky. It's not something that all of a sudden just happens to you. It's something that you truly pursue. It's something that you realize, oh my gosh, I've got to let this go because it's killing me. It's destroying me. Maybe my finances, my health, my mental health. Right. My relationships with other people. It is, that was the aha for me. Like, I have got to get a handle on this and let this go. Because I'm not showing up as a very good mother to my five children at the time. I'm not showing up as a very good employer. Like, I, I could see that it was breaking me down and I was starting to have heart palpitations and all kinds of anxiety and some kinds, all kind of physical. Right. Demonstrations that. Okay, this is not taking me in a direction that I want to go. Which highlights. Okay, if you're right now in a place where forgiveness is maybe being knocking or it's maybe being, you know, a thing that you need to entertain and it's knocking on your door, just think, are you in a process of breakthrough or are you in a process of breakdown?

Yeah. And I would just say so for those of us, you know, that are listening, you know, that sounds all good logically. I mean, I understand it 100 brain wise, but I can hear, you know, or let's just say, yeah, but you don't understand my story. So, Kelly, share with us. For those of us that are thinking like that, how does one go? From what you just explained, I don't think there'd be any, you know, refuting that the benefits are there. But how do I get from that place to where, like, you don't understand.

This, you know, you don't understand my story.

What takes it from, you know, logical to where I need to step into this and work through this?

Yeah, I know. First, there's, there's some misconceptions about forgiveness. Some people feel like it involves begging the other person to be forgiven or they've got to come to you and, you know, bribe or beg and that's not it. Or they have to repeatedly ask for forgiveness.

Please forgive me.

Will you forgive me? When they're still holding, you know, your feet to the fire, it's not waiting for someone else to say I'm sorry. It's not, you forget just because you forgave. So there's, there's all these misconceptions that I try and help people get through so that they can get to the place where they can go, okay, I forgive you. Whether it's safe for you to do with that other person or not. Like maybe that person's not even safe for you to be around. So it might just be someone who's a proxy for that person. Or you can just do it between you and your faith. If it's you and God, then you can do it that way. But what I like to do is take some quiet time and really, I call it just soaking where I imagine Heaven, Because I just feel like it's the highest thing I could possibly imagine. And I'll lie somewhere quiet and just ask, like, who do I need to forgive? And you might be really surprised at what comes into your mind. Something you hadn't even thought of. And then part of forgiveness is thinking differently. So what do I have to do to think differently? And that's what the repentance part of forgiveness is. And then release each offense, forgive yourself and let it go. When you forgive, you don't hold on to it. The whole idea of forgiveness is that's it. So it doesn't mean you keep talking about it and replaying it in your mind. And you want to renew your mind to that thing when you release it. And then one of the highest things that you can do is actually bless the person in the area that they forgave you. So for example, for me with my marriage, my husband left. He was quickly remarried, so I forgave him. But I bless his new marriage. I hope him and his wife are so happy that they live till death do they part happily ever after. They complete each other, you know, all the things. And I mean it from my heart, I don't wish an evil thing upon either of them. And that's when you really know, like, okay, I've really arrived at this. I've gotten to this place where before I was like, I forgive them, I forgive them. But then I'd be triggered. You know, I'd see wedding pictures on social media of them or, you know, something he did with my kids or his new wife said to my daughter. And I'd be like. And I'm like, there's something still in there. There's still like this bitter thorn in there. You need to be able to release that. And in time, things were less intense. I didn't fall as hard, as deep, as long, as fast. I could just go, okay, and come back to peace and release it. So what I finally decided was to live a life of pre forgiveness. And in this life of pre forgiveness, that's where I decide ahead of time that I'm not going to judge anyone to the best of my ability. I'm not going to criticize anyone to the best of my ability. I'm not going to play a victim to the best of my ability. I'm not going to let the government, the economy, the news or anything really affect my life to the best of my ability. I want to go out and have a win win every day. So I start the day with a clean slate. I Start the day in peace. And you have to ask yourself, like, why am I so easily offended? Like, why am I going out into the world and like, oh, that person cut me off or that guy's taking too long or whatever it might be that gets you so offended at a restaurant or just being out going throughout your day. And I just decide my peace is too expensive and I'm not going to give it up for any reason. So I live this life where I pre decide if someone offends me, I'm going to forgive them quickly because it is not worth me carrying that around for a day, a week, a month, a year, decades. I mean, I hate when families don't talk to each other. And we just. Right before this recording was Mother's Day and so many families are estranged and was probably over things they can't even remember. And that has to do with, unfortunately, forgiveness. So I just decided my time here is too short. I only get today. Today's never happening again. So I'm going to go out and if someone offends me, I'm going to quickly forgive them. And if I've offended someone, I'm going to ask for forgiveness right away. And a simple way to do that. There's actually a little Hawaiian, it's called ho' oponopo H O O P O N O P O N O And it's four things and that anyone can remember and it's great to use in relationships. And basically it's I'm sorry, which is you're repenting, please forgive me, which is asking thank you, which is gratitude. And that's a superpower. And I love you. And love is just the highest form of existence. It's the highest vibration. It is the opposite of being a victim. And then you just ask the person, can you let that go? And then it's on them if they do or they don't. But you did your part. If they decide they want to hold on to it and stewing it, but you did your part. I'm sorry. Please forgive me. Thank you. I love you. And that can happen at the kitchen table, in the grocery store, I mean anywhere. It's so simple. And it's just such a great way to live.

Yeah, I totally agree. And, and some of our listeners make may be thinking, okay, how did you get there? Like, what are, what is my, like my first step? And, and I find even in myself, in my own story, that I had to get to a place where I could express this is what I'm going to do differently this is what I'm going to commit to trying next. And I find that that's really a helpful piece to add to this. What you just shared for my clients is, you know, I, I, I'm sorry, please forgive me. And what I commit to doing differently is, is this. So I have some idea with inside of myself how I'm going to show up or attempt to do this differently. And then my partner can say, okay, yeah, I think that might work for me. And then I say, I love you. And that brings us all back together because we forget that often the reason why we're so flashed in our relationships, right, Frustrated, angry, like pressed against the wall, is because we care so much, we have so many hopes and dreams for our relationship that, you know, it causes this emotion to flash. And when we feel like we can't meet, need, meet our expectations, then all of a sudden, oh my gosh, what's wrong with me? What's wrong with you? Somebody's got to be blamed here. We got to get to the bottom of this. And that's where our focus tends to go. Instead of saying, no, no, no, no, what's the remedy here? Like, what do you want to try? What's not working and what is it you want to try next? And that's the place of being able to let it go. Forgiveness is really an ability to let it go. Right? It's not that you're, like you had said so eloquently Kelly, earlier, it's not that that we're making everything you've done is a mistake, okay? It's that we're saying, okay, we're going to create a do over, we're going to let this go and here's some things that we're going to try to do better and differently. And so, okay, let's go and try that now and let's see what happens. Because we figured this thing out called relationships as we go. It's our only way through as a human being. And by the way, I love to say this and I will say it often, we are all mess making machines so unintentionally, it's only a matter of time before we, yes, us who think we have it all figured out is going to make a mistake or disappoint our lover. And ofttimes, we don't even realize we're doing it until they say, you know what? That really hurt my feelings or you really stepped on my toe or hey, I can't do this anymore. And unfortunately, we can't have those conversations long before, like. Like your experience, Kelly, and mine, where our husbands come through the door and say, I'm done. I'm out of here. I checked out, you know, a year ago, five years ago, 10 years ago. You know, I've just been going through the motions this whole time. That doesn't mean that we're any less as a human being. What it means is we don't know how to have these conversations and we don't know how to let things go. So what I tend to see in my own practice, and I'd love your thoughts on this, Kelly, is we tend to hold on to the pain because we think that what it's going to give us is the ability to not repeat what it is we've just come from. Like, if I can remember and I can hold on to this and I can metaphorically keep it in my back pocket, then that's going to ensure that I will never be hurt or taken advantage of or mistreated like I feel like I am right now. Right. Never again. And what we don't realize is when we put that in our back pocket, we're setting ourselves up to not just have the pain that we just experienced, but that we're going to hold a grudge and we're going to hold it close to our chest and be extremely sensitive to it, which is going to keep us in perpetual pain from that moment forward that there is no gain there. And the truth and the reality is that if I can let it go, don't worry, because if it's a problem, it's going to show up again in the future. Right? It really is going to come up again. And at that point in time, and not a second sooner, we can address it and see it for what it is. And not only that, you're going to be hiding, hypersensitive to that because of what you've been through. So in essence, we're kind of saying you got to trust the experience that you've had and know that if it becomes a problem or you become triggered, we address it then. But you don't have to carry it with you from the moment it happened right to the next time it happens.

That is so true. So keeping it in your back pocket is keeping you stuck and stopped. We are not meant to carry the burden of any of this.

It.

We're supposed to cast it and get rid of it and not care about it anymore. I mean, sin is forgotten as far as the east is from the West. So why would we want to carry that with us when you're staying. I need to carry this in my back pocket. You're stuck in wherever it is on this journey that you are. It could be shock, it could be anger, fear, depression, denial, anger, panic. I mean, right now, look at how many people are having panic attacks and anxiety. Look at the suicide level. I mean, where is that coming from? There's some type of false belief that people are carrying that is not true, that they feel like they need to, whether for protection or they have to hold on to it. They're counting the offense, or it's some type of mechanism, but really it's just keeping them in fear. If they could release it and let it go, it would be so much better. And also when they do that, you're expressing yourself. Otherwise you're pushing everything down, keeping it in your back pocket. Eventually, when life gets hard and it will, and you get squeezed, whatever's in you is coming out of you. So if you, like you talked about, the response doesn't match the offense. You know, it was something so small, but it just exploded into this, you know, ridiculous, you know, argument possibly where it's not matching because you've got an offended heart. And so when you can have forgiveness of yourself and the other person, you're releasing those offenses and you have forgiveness. And now you are expressing yourself because you shouldn't always be last and you're not unworthy. And again, these are all beliefs that we use to protect ourselves because we're trying to function when there's so much assault, chaos, you know, arrows coming at us, depending on the dynamics of the relationship. But none of that is healthy. So releasing and forgiving is just so important and having healthy boundaries as well. Obviously, if it continues to happen and. And now you're becoming a victim. That's unhealthy either.

Well, and there's. There's really only two. Two things we can do with our emotions, which. Which are basically sharing with us. This works for you, this doesn't work for you. There's really only two options. We have to simplify it all down into, you know, real basics. We either get to digest this, break it down and understand what we need to do for ourselves that would remedy the situation, or I'm going to act it out on the people probably that I love the most. I have no other option. As you said, Kelly, it's going to come out when you get squeezed. So I either consciously digest down my emotions, understand them, understand what they're asking, they're sharing with you what works and then what doesn't. Work because it's usually the opposite of what's not working. And then you can get to a remedy that you can ask for, you can advocate for, you can set a boundary around. But if I just leave it to chance, you will get the default option, which means you're going to act it out. That's what we all have to deal with as human beings. Like that is how it works. That's how the human navigation system and.

I, I would just ask Kelly, expand with us because I know this is my sense and you correct me if I'm wrong. Do a lot of people, difficult for them to step into this forgiveness because they're having a tough time with a distinction of, of what was done is not okay. So if I forgive, that means it's okay. Right? So where did, where, where did you draw that line? Where your husband came in, dropped this bomb on you, you know, you thought everything was going well. Again, I think my sense is that's a very, very slippery, tight slope for us to navigate. You know, you're not condoning it's not okay. But yet ultimately our own peace of mind and well being is going to be reliant upon our own ability to forgive. So help us understand where, and I know that's a definition we all have to walk, walk, you know, a line we all have to walk.

Yeah. You need to trust, trust that all things will eventually work together for good if you allow them or not. Right. We always have a choice in everything. So two people could get divorced and it could go very different. Two people can have their foot amputated and it could be very different. So we get to decide what we do with what happens to us. And if we don't forgive now, we're carrying that divorce for the rest of our lives and we have that heaviness and that burden. And, and so when you release it, you will, physically, emotionally, you, in every way, even spiritually, they're all connected. So when you can release that, you will feel it palpably in every area of your life. And when someone comes in the room, who's playing the victim, who's carrying this? I was assaulted, I was abused. Whatever the loss or grief was, it's basically that victim energy is a decaying energy. So really you're dying. If you were to measure the energy level of a victim, it's a decaying, it's the same as a decomposing body. That's how low and bad it is. The highest level would be that love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, you know, we want to vibrate on that highest level. But the tipping point is the courage. It's the ability to get up again. You've been knocked down 10 times. Will you get up 11? And do you have the courage to come back and forgive and move on? Because how is what you're doing working for you? How is carrying all of the past? It's too heavy. You can't do it. The people who try will be headaches, gut issues, cancer. I work with a lot of women going through divorce and right breast cancer is so prevalent, the attack, the right represents the masculine. So it's like a masculine attack to the feminine breast. And that's just some something that I've observed. But the number of women who have right breast cancer after divorce is significant. I don't know if that's been documented anywhere, but I have seen it because it's rampant in the groups that I work with. And so it's going to show up physically if you don't release it, it is too much to carry. Life is too hard. There's going to be struggle, there's going to be suffering, but you can't carry it. All the people who do the best accept their situation and they release it. So, except that my foot's been amputated. I can't regrow a foot by myself. It's, you know, probably not going to happen. So let me see what I can do to adjust in a healthy way to this new normal. And that's when you know you're coming out of the grief, when you've adjusted in a healthy way. And then people even get to a place where they're helping other people. Like, you guys are like Tom and Stacey. You've been through a lot. Now here you are with this incredible podcast, sharing with the world because of what you've been through. So we can do something great with it or we can become a victim.

I love that. Absolutely. So let's give our listeners some quick steps. Where do we begin when we're going to step into forgiveness? And I find with my clients and I would love for you to share where you start your clients as well, Kelly, that there's has to be an emotional expression of. Right. The emotion that they're carrying around inside of themselves. And we have a completion process that simply I apologize, I forgive you for. And here is my. My emotional statements of. Of fact for me. And those could be things from I'm so angry with you, or I was so disappointed, or I love you and I don't know how to Go forward. We have our clients write this in a letter and then we have them release it, right? So there's this moment of like expression where get it all out on a page. And the wonderful thing that I find is that then in our thinking there's this place where I said, no, I did get complete with that. This. So every time it might be a little sticky to kind of go back there, right, and kind of ruminate or hang out on that space, it's like, no, no, no. I said what I needed to say. I did what I needed to did do. I released it. Whether it was burning it or burying it or shredding it or, or, you know, and, and I can move on and I can move forward now. And that takes me back to a practice where my mom, when I was growing up as a child, after her losing her husband and being left with five kids and no money and she'd never worked, she taught us, and I didn't know this at the time, but how to let go by setting a timer. And she would say, go into your room, work it out, throw the biggest fit ever, say whatever you gotta say. And then when the timer goes off, we're gonna get back to living. You're gonna let this go. It's done now. And, and I, I just feel so blessed to have been trained from a very young child in regards to how to let go. Because it is a practice, because our minds are going to take us back to these st trauma moments and we think that we need to rehash it or ruminate through it. And it's a reminder that no, we don't. You know, once we've processed it, we've digested it down and we've said what we've needed to say, it's okay for us to let them be. And we have to remind ourselves, no, no, no, it's time to live again. Let's get focused on how we're going to move forward now and how I'm going to utilize this to empower myself. And so that's my process. But I would love for you to throw yours in the ring too.

Those are all powerful. And I definitely do similar things in my program. I have an eight week course called Intentionally Fabulous and week two is on forgiveness. And in the workbook there is a process of writing the letter and then burning the letter. And there's so much power in that. I asked them really good open ended questions. One of them would be something like, what's good about this? And it's usually not something they think of. But when they give it a moment, then they can come up with some things like, wow, I didn't realize that this is. There is a blessing in this when I really think about it. So thinking differently about what could be good about the fact that this happened changes their perspective. It really all starts with the belief. So do you believe it's possible for you to forgive? And then from that belief, I'll get them to write out some thoughts like what could that look like if you forgave? And then from those thoughts, I'll get them to speak it in affirmations. So they're giving these I am statements about what it will look like in the future when they have forgiven and the peace and the joy and the love and the freedom that they'll have because they forgave. And then once they're speaking it out, then I ask them, is there a safe person that you can share this with that perhaps can keep you accountable? Or when you're having a triggered moment or a dark door kicking moment where you think you might go back or be angry that you can have accountability with this person. And then from there I'll have them repeat it each time that they catch themselves getting triggered to go back to those I am statements. And in time, like anything else, it becomes a habit. The habit becomes their character, their character becomes their identity. Until eventually they get to a place where they're living a life of pre deciding to forgive. So those are some of the questions, a bunch of the questions that I would ask them, like what would make today great? What would make this a great session or conversation? So get them to start thinking about a future that they can be excited about that they are writing themselves. That takes them away from rethinking that same unjust story over and over and over. So we're rewiring the brain and we're getting them to think, think differently. So the next time that trigger happens that, you know, every time I see a motorcycle, I think about my ex husband and now you can see a motorcycle and go up to someone go, that is an awesome bike. You know, have a great ride. And. And so getting to a place of this fear and horror and this is terrible. And I can't ever see a motorcycle too. I might go get my motorcycle license. Like that's a really fun thing to do. And without vision, the people perish. So I want to get them to a place where they can start to get excited about a future that, you know, makes them happy and joyful and a lot of what they're thinking about is the past when it comes to unforgiveness. So let's get present, let's breathe through it, let's think about what's good and then let's start to get excited about what can happen in the future.

I love that. Let's do a quick round as we wrap this conversation up and I can't. I'm so disappointed. Our time has gone. This is so wonderful. Let's all take. What is your biggest takeaway from our conversation today? Like, we want to live with our listeners. And Kelly will let you go first. You know what, what is? We sum this all up in a final statement. What would it be that you want our listeners to remember?

I would say to let love win. That's the highest possible good that could happen every single day. And that's the barometer that I use to live my life where I just go out and say what's the best thing that could happen in this situation? And so that is living a pre decided life of, of pre forgiving for me. And I just hope people can use that as a barometer of how could love win in this situation.

I love that. What about you?

I would.

I. I think I love Kelly. Sharon, the tipping point is courage. You know, courage. We talk a lot about that and it's not talked a lot about in society, you know. Yes. What we've all just talked about takes courage. You know, the ability to, am I gonna come back and look at this in a different way and extend. You know, it's not often that talked about. It's not often demonstrated. So, you know, it's that inner resolve to like, look, I need to dust myself off and come back and have this be a win for me, you.

Know, And I guess mine would be. Regardless of where you think you are right now, you may be thinking that forgiveness is not possible. And I want you to know it absolutely is. All it takes is like Tom said, the courage and the willingness to dream of a life like Kelly had suggested of love. Right. And know that that's possible for you too. And then you embark on a journey where you literally practice some steps to let go and embrace the idea of forgiveness. And you will be the victor. You will be the victor as you come through for this for yourself, really, and for the people that you love. And it is a journey and it is a practice and is absolutely doable for anybody who's out there listening to our voices. So, Kelly, on that note, tell people where they can connect with you and learn more about the work that you do and who you are.

Absolutely. Well, I would love to hear from any of your listeners and viewers. They can email me. I answer every email. It's Kelly with an I. Ellie calabrese.com if any woman is going through separation divorce post divorce, I do have a free private Facebook group called Intentionally Fabulous where we talk about the hard things, we support each other, we laugh, and it's just a great community because a lot of women feel alone and isolated going through that season. Even if you're seven years post divorce, you can get a lot from this community. And I do have the program. They can either go to my website, Kelly calabrese.com or intentionally fabulous.com and they can get my ebook for free which is called Success Habits of Super Achievers. And it's a very encouraging book for anyone who's feeling down.

I love that. Kelly, thank you so much for spending some time with us in the love shack today. I look so forward to connecting with you. We'll definitely have you back. We have some more conversations about this very important topic of forgiveness.

I would love that. Thanks for bringing the show to the world. I appreciate you. Stacy and Tom, thank you.

Thank you very much.

We're going to take a very quick break and we're going to come back with some follow the fun. So don't tune out. Right. We've talked about some challenging things that make you sweat. Come on back. It's time to shift the gears and we can have a little fun. So we'll be right back. Hey babe, did you know that the average couple spends only two hours a day with each other and then majority of that time is spent eating, watching TV and surfing social media rather than connecting with each other. And if children are involved, my gosh, it's even less time than that.

I know, babe. That's why you created our conversation cards for connection, because they're the perfect conversation starter. So the next time you're sitting on the couch, rather than turning on the TV or grabbing your phone, pull out a card and get ready for some good old fashioned laughter and loving connection.

Yeah, you can get your cards@staceybartley.com make.

It a great, great day.

Keep your dial on Alternative Talk 1150.

All right, so we got to jump into Follow the Fun really fast. And my Follow the Fun moment today is a little thing I call Remember Me. There is no better time to let someone know that you care than when your special someone is coming home after a long day. So I encourage you to Listen to when it is they show up, meet them at the door, fling that thing open with a big smile on your face, give them a big kiss right on the lips and say, hey, I've been thinking about you today. I've missed you today. Welcome home. And then if you want to put it on steroids, move down, give them a little kiss on the lips and say, what is it you'd like for dinner? I'm all yours. This is about the moment that their jaw is going to drop and go, oh my gosh, Right. I didn't know that you cared so much or that you viewed me as so important to your life. Life. And isn't that the point? Not only is that fun and delightful and exciting, but the point to communicate that I do care, that I do think about you, that I do want to make this moment where you're coming home after all, we've been separated for hours. I'm thinking about you. And Tom is so good about this. I'll come in after a long day, he'll have a meal all prepared and some candles lit. Ladies, it's true, I have it pretty good over here. He's pretty spectacular. But I also want to empower you as our listeners. You can do this in your own life. And if for some reason you feel like this is not available in your relationship, well, that, that's a really good sign to say, hey, let's make this as good as it could possibly be because we want you to have the safety to do these kinds of things in your relationship, to be able to express how much you care and how important that person is in your life.

Yes. And I again, you know, if you've been any, any listener for any length of time, we take a, a portion of every single show and it's follow the fun. It's because if this seems out of reach, like Stacy said, can't overemphasize. Well, that's probably a. Not probably. It's a very good sign where it's pro. You need to. I had to catch myself, reach out and get some support. And this is where we, this is what we do and this is where we can help. We can put our collective arms around you. It's Stacy and myself and one of our wonderful daughters, Brooke. We love and appreciate you and help you take your next best step. That can be a one on one session. That can be through our relationship rescue course or our flagship course, which is love for life. Then bottom line is, is you can't stop and stop and stop. You have to reach out and take an action.

Yeah, it's so true. So our song for today, I know it's going to say, hey, our song for today, check it out, is Matthew Web Forgiveness. This is a perfect song to help us get in the spirit of forgiveness. Check it out. Take a listen to. We're Tom and Stacey Bartley here in the Love Shack with you. Kelly, thank you so much again publicly for being here with us. Come on back next week and we are going to continue our conversations to help you improve your love, sex and relationships. Have a great week. We'll be back next week. See you soon. Bye bye for now.

Thanks for joining us today in the Love Shack. We hope you came away with something that made your toes tingle. To learn more about everything you heard on today's show, go to stacybartley.com podcast Love the Show. Help us spread the love by sharing the show with others. Okay, everybody, time to go. We got to close the doors to the Love Shack for this week. You don't have to go home, but you can't stay here. Come back next week, though, and join us for another edition of Love Shack Live with Tom and Stacy Bartley.