#86: Is It Possible To Recover From An Affair? All Your Relationship FAQs Answered

Is it possible to recover from an affair?

You need to know. This is the number one question that we get asked from couples who are seeking help. This highlights the experience that we have as human beings is we wait and wait and wait to raise our hands and say, hey, I, I, I feel like there's some things going on here. I'm not quite sure what to do about it. And affairs also, I wanted to say, encompass a lot of experiences of betrayal.

Hey, thanks for coming. Welcome to the Love Shack.

Hey, welcome to the Love Shack. It's a little old place where we get to get together, explore fresh perspectives and eavesdrop on juicy conversations to discover the things that really matter and have a little fun along the way. This is episode number 86, is it possible to recover from an affair? And all your other relationship FAQs, we're going to answer them all here today in the Love Shack. The thing is, is my clients and listeners of Love Shack often have a lot of questions about relationships and they don't know who to turn to and it feels uncomfortable to just randomly ask them as a stranger. And so I'm so delighted and happy that our show, this conversation, what we do here Strange strikes up a safe place where people can ask their questions. And so we're going to answer them today.

Yeah, let's face it, when you feel confused about your relationship and have no one to talk to, it can feel like you're the only one that is asking these questions and you're the only one who is struggling in your relationship. And we like to remind you that is not the case. And today in the Love Shack, as Stacy shared, we are pulling back the curtain and we're going to answer your most burning questions from real people about intimate relationships.

We're going to answer the questions that are currently keeping you up at night so you can understand how to have the success you deserve in your relationship. I mean, after all, everyone in my humble opinion, deserves to have their toes tingling when it comes to love, right? So, hello everyone, we're Thomas JC Bartley and we're here for another episode of Love Shack Live. We create this show to help couples overcome their current challenges and create long lasting love.

We are here to answer answer some of your top questions that couples have about their relationships. Like, have you ever wondered if it's possible to recover from an affair? Or what does a healthy relationship really look like?

Wouldn't it be great to get and receive the answers to these questions that are weighing on your heart right now? This becomes very important because if we don't get answers to the questions that are on our minds. We're not going to take any action to improve them. What typically we find happens instead is you become stuck in what we call the land of maybe. Maybe I'll stay, maybe I'll go, maybe this will work, maybe it won't. And truly, you must know that this is an experience of hell on earth. And guessing answers will ensure that you're going to probably get it wrong the majority of the time. So we're going to give you some answers that you desperately need straight up right here today. So what's our first question, babe?

Number one, is it possible to recover from an affair?

You need to know. This is the number one question that we get asked from couples who are seeking help. This highlights the experience that we have as human beings is we wait and wait and wait to raise our hands and say, hey, I feel like there's some things going on here. I'm not quite sure what to do about it. And affairs also, I wanted to say, encompass a lot of experiences of betrayal. So an affair is something that we talk about. There is maybe an actual physical affair, or there could be an emotional affair, but there could also be, which falls in this category, places of trust and betrayal in small ways, too. And then we start suspecting that our partner is, you know, disengaged in the relationship because they are having, you know, that physical or emotional affair. So this is a burning question, and it makes sense to me is why we. We hear it a lot. And the simple answer to this question is, absolutely, it's possible to recover from an affair sometimes. This is a catalyst that finally gets us to go, hey, I. All right, enough is enough. Let's see if we can turn this around and get this working again, because I don't want to let go. We've got a lot of investment here, whether that's, you know, money, time, kids, finances, et cetera. We put a lot into our relationships as human beings. And so it's. It's normal and likely that we want to see if we can turn it around or if we can grow through this before we just end it. And I would encourage that to be the case because if we just react to the experience of our partner having an affair, we're going to make some rash decisions immediately. And the biggest problem is that you're going to be incomplete when it ends. And what I mean by that is we're terrible at getting complete in our relationships, I. E. Saying what it is we need to say. Right. Understanding why it happened, what promoted the affair, what was my piece, what was my partner's piece. And when we can start to understand some of those things, it's really highlighting, right a lot about the relationship, the co creation that the two people have done in the relationship together. And there's so much good that can be learned and discovered from a very painful, disappointing, ofttimes, heartbreaking experience. And we overstep those opportunities in that moment to learn and grow as individuals and understand a lot about relationships overall. And so when we don't get incomplete with, we end and we feel bitter, we feel incomplete, we have, you know, a lot of revenge because we don't understand really what happened. And unfortunately for most of us, we take it really personal, like there must have been something wrong with me the way I did it. And so much of the time I find in working with couples, it has more to do what's going on inside of ourselves and what we feel like we can say or not say, do not do. And we make up a lot of stories in our minds about what's playing out and what's happening and we build on that. So if you have two people that really want to understand and grow their relationship into something different, crazy as this might sound, an affair can be the best thing that ever happened because it's finally the thing that got you to turn and face some of the challenges that, let's be honest, we're probably brewing all along. And if you say, oh my gosh, it came out of nowhere, then that tells me that you're not really present in your relationship.

You know, let me ask so a question within the question then. Is it fair to say in you working with clients that have come to us to work through this specific challenge, you know, there's the person that chose to have the affair, and then there's the partner that was not involved in the affair. And many times traditionally there's someone is the problem person and someone is not. Is there going to have to be some new ways to come together over this and not have some person, the bad person, some person is the not bad person?

Yeah, absolutely. If we're going to blame the person who had an affair not to, not to condone, you know, the, the sense of betrayal and the going behind the back and you know, there's always going to be a sense of, of lying and those kinds of things. We get hung up there and we start pointing the fingers. But what you really want to find out and discover is what drove that behavior, you know, what was going on that led you to believe that an affair was what you needed to cope and to. To exist. And oftentimes they happen without us really consciously choosing in. They're just kind of there and in the moment I make a decision and then I roll with that as a human being. And this is the side of affairs that we don't typically talk about babies. If somebody's lying about having an affair, there is a piece where they're lying because they don't want to hurt you. They don't want to have the relationship end while they're trying to figure some things out. Now, writing both sides is. Is destructive for them, is destructive for families and relationships overall. When the commitment is right, we're going to be monogamous. That's an important piece as well. So if that's my commitment, then I'm violating the commitment. Who's going to pay the ultimate price for that is the person who's violating that commitment. Right. They're going to carry their own package of blame and shame and disappointment with inside of themselves, as well as the effect that it's had on the people that they made this commitment to or broke this commitment with. And so we want to understand what was the breakdown in the relationship that drove. Drove the relationship to this point. And this is the place where oft times we all need to take a look at how we were showing up. And typically it's very normal for relationships to get to a place where it turns more logistics. Meaning you take care of the kids, you drop them off at soccer, you pay the bills, I'll make meals, I do the laundry, etc. And we manage the logistics of our lives and our relationships. But the emotional sharing has gone. So when it feels like it's come out of left field, okay, that tells me that we've gotten highlight. We've highlighted on the logistics of our relationship. And we thought that everything was going along just fine because, you know, we take family vacation and you pay the bills and we show up for dinner and all of those normal, traditional things are happening. But if we look a little closer, there's usually a lack of emotional sharing or connection that's missing in the relationship. And that can be for a number of reasons. And that's typically where the enticing idea of a relationship with outside of the commitment is. Is lands in our lap. We intentionally seek it, whatever it might be. But why is it being sought after is the thing that we want to explore. So absolutely you can overcome affairs in your relationship? Absolutely. It takes two people to make that happen, I would ask you three questions to evaluate, you know, that situation, and they are in priority of this order. Number one, you just want it. You want it to work. Doesn't make any sense, but you want it to. Number two, you got to be willing to work on letting the past go. And that might be a process in and of itself, but it's going to become an important piece. The affair can't be the benchmark of the relationship. We have to look forward and think about things that we want to learn and discover to make our relationship better and become better as human beings as we show up in this relationship. And number three, you've got to. You've got to learn some skills. You got to learn some new skills and understand relationships from a whole new perspective. And you've come as far probably as you can go with what you do know and how you've shown up at this point in time. And it's time to give it all an upgrade. It reminds me of a story of a wonderful client here years ago, Amy. She was devastated. Her husband was a marathon runner, and he had met somebody while running marathons, and they had this commonality. And Amy wasn't athletic at all. She wasn't something she was interested in. And I remember her just being devastated, as we are when such egregious forms of betrayal show up in our relationships and in our lives. And sometimes, sometimes it's really, really courageous for us to finally turn and face it right? And she said, I really want this. I really want this. I shouldn't, you know, but I want it for me. I want it for my family, I want it for my kids. How am I going to turn this around? And I remember saying, okay, you know, we worked together one on one for a minute, and then I empowered her to go and have a conversation with her husband, Tim. And Tim was very, very open to saving the relationship. He had basically stopped trying because he didn't think that he could ever recover from what had been done or his choice and his. His messy mistakes. And as they started to kind of put this back together, it was really cool because Amy started to run, and it ended up that, yes, they did save their relationship, and their marriage was better than ever. And she then became his pacer. You have a pacer the last, you know, five or so miles of the race, and she stepped in and they started traveling and running marathons and supporting and cheering him on in this way. And I love that story because it shows that we have so much power and influence to turn things around even when maybe we think it's not possible. And I want to just leave you with this inspired idea that you absolutely can turn it around and it ofttimes is so much better than it was before. And that this affair is just kind of the catalytic event that says, okay, no more, we cannot keep doing this. Right. And interesting to note. And then we'll move on to the next question. I obviously have a lot to say about this question. Um, of times people who are violating these commitments to the people that they love give themselves away. And I find that always fascinating that, you know, the thing that we would call the soul or the intuition or the capacity to be all we can be of times tells on us. You know, we, we get caught. And that's a, that's a good thing because of those things play out year over year over year. It's usually not. Usually it's the person that's breaking the commitment that pays the ultimate price in their mental health, in their physical health, etc, so that's a good thing to finally come clean with.

Excellent. As you can tell, ladies and gentlemen, we could do a whole show on that particular question, but we're going to move on because we have others. Number two, my partner is always mean to me. What the heck should I do?

What do you have to say about this?

I would say number one is really, really do a self examination of how are you showing up in the relationship?

Well, people might say, now wait a minute, I'm the one that's getting picked on.

I know.

How can that be?

I know because it's a counterintuitive. But again, just like trust, it's like other things, you know, you don't demand trust. You demonstrate and extend trust and then guess what happens? So as hard as that is for us to turn, I'm not. Again, none. Just realize, ladies and gentlemen, we're not condoning what's happening here, but we're giving you answers that we know are effective and they will help because that's what we do. So first thing I would do is rather than pointing the finger is how am I showing up in my relationship? You know, am I giving it everything? Am I showing up in a way that I want that same type of behavior demonstrated back to me?

And I would say, you did good. You did really good.

A lot of pressure.

Now. This is, this is, I, I don't want to make light of this in any way, shape or form. It comes about often because we can feel like we're doing everything we possibly can. And ofttimes this is a dynamic where I'm trying to please and I'm trying to do everything I can possibly do in order to get my needs met or to feel loved and accepted in this relationship. And what we don't realize is that oft times I'm not advocating for myself. I'm not good at establishing boundaries. I'm not good at saying this isn't okay. I'm not going to allow this to go on. And so ofttimes this dynamic, which is why Tom said, look at yourself first off times this dynamic is something that you're tolerating and putting up with. Not that you need to go to blows over it, but that there's a place of advocating for yourself. I'll just reveal a personal story here because I have lots of them. You know, I didn't just arrive here at sharing relationship help and support to couples. There's a lot of journeys that I lived personally and I was very much in a, what we would call abusive relationship. Young as a young mom with five kids and I was not good at all at saying, and that's enough. And if I did, I didn't know how to do it in a good way. And so it would turn into a full on blowout. Right. So it could be turned back on me very quickly that I was to blame for this. See, if you didn't push me to this place or you didn't cause me to feel the way that I feel, then I wouldn't have to do what I do to you.

And let me just add, so when I that's a great, you know, follow up on what I said. And, and I'm sure a lot of people say, oh, so I, I'm showing up and I just need to just accept everything like I, it is now. No, that's, that's exactly why I said showing up. Just like Stacy said, are we showing up and learning and understanding, you know, how it is, we're showing up what it is we need. Again, it's up to us to teach our partner how to love us. You know, so if, if you're being in your partner's treating you very, very mean, then obviously we've got to understand, you know, it's two very, very dynamic humans involved in a, a the soup, if you will, of the relationships. And so if it's not working for us rather than the traditional ways of, you know, accusation and somebody's wrong, somebody's right, it's not as simple as that. So I think that's just an important context and Distinction there, showing up, looking at how you're showing up doesn't mean you're a doormat. Not at all. But there's also very differences, significant differences in how one delivers, advocating for him or herself. Would you agree?

Absolutely. It's. It's being willing to take action on what it is you're. You're setting a boundary for. Really, if I could put it in simple terms, we call it planting your flag just to get your head around this. Let's. Let's put it into a story, shall we? There's a client who has a husband that, that very much runs the show. Now, I'm not going to get gender specific here, because I know women who do this as well. It just so happens this particular client is a male and female dynamic. And the female is running around trying to please the husband and cooking meals. And the food has to be a certain way on the plate, and the glass has to be a certain portion full. And there's things that she can get involved in when managing the kids or, and not, not so much. And she's constantly trying to get him to connect with her and to. To create a relationship. And he shuts her down again and again and again and pushes her out. Basically. She feels like all she's good for is preparing meals, you know, taking care of the kids where he deems necessary and doing what it is he says. So, so that's a, that's a pretty egregious place where I get this question is what happens if my partner's mean? And the way through that is to start saying, you know, I'm not comfortable with what's happening here. Right. I want to have more of a say with the kids. I want to, I, I think that we need to rediscuss or get some help and support about some of the things that are playing out here. And you may need to go and get help and support on your own. And that's where you plant your flag. And then you've got to be willing to back that up and take action on that so that they can see you're serious. Because after many, many rounds, realize the pattern that gets practiced here. You know, I, I do something, I find out that it's not okay. You know, they become, you know, very, very egregiously controlling, as we would say, you know, through behavior, whether that's tone of voice or physical action or a combination of both. I shut down and I go along with. And so when I finally start setting boundaries and I mean it, they're going to think, yeah, whatever, get back to, you know, this dance we do in our relationship, you're not supposed to have any boundaries and tell me how this is going to go. And initially they're not going to believe it. And so you have to be willing finally to say, no, this isn't okay, this doesn't work for me. I'm going to get some help, I'm going to get some support to turn this around and that's probably what you're going to need. And then you're going to need to be willing to take action on that. Right. And this is where the rubber meets the road and we've got to be able to execute on that. Otherwise we're just going to continue to practice the same pattern again and again and again. And, and the more you try and plant that flag and then acquiesce, the more egregious it's going to become on the other side. Because, you know, it's kind of like a two year old that tantrums for a cookie. And if you give in and give them that cookie the next time you might try and stay off giving them that cookie longer. But the tantrum is going to bigger and bigger and bigger because they just know if they spend a few more minutes doing it or try a few more things, you're going to finally pony up the cookie. And it gets like that in our, in our relationships as well.

So. Share with us one sentence for our listeners. You know, one thing. Someone, our partner is being mean to us and we're really frustrated. Share a sentence that our listeners could you, they can attach anything to, to, to the sentence that would be a real game changer and really help them feel less, less intimidated.

I, I would say I need you to know that this no longer works for me and I'm going to get some help. Right? And then you plant your flag and you do just that. I'm not playing along anymore.

Number three, how do you build trust in a relationship? Obviously question number one, when there's been an affair in a relationship, trust is a big one that has been severely broken. So how do you, how do you, how do you build trust in relationships?

Okay, so this makes me immediately think of an episode that we did. I wish I knew the of it. I apologize for not looking this up.

We'll hook to it in the show notes.

Yeah, that, yeah, that's abs. It's an episode all about betrayal. And trust is an interesting thing. I love to talk about trust because trust, it usually comes or lack of trust usually Comes from little teeny, tiny egregious behaviors over time. And I keep, you know, feeling dumped in the soup. Like you don't get me, like you're dismissing me, like you're not there for me. I think in the Gottman Institute, you know, there's not a lot of attunement. You're not attuning to my needs. You don't seem to really care about my needs. I feel like, you know, you're just not there to support me. And I find that oftentimes the feeling like I can't trust you to be there comes because we did at one point in time feel like we were dumped in the soup. And that's why I want to immediately point you to that conversation that we had on betrayal. But let's break down trust just right now because of the question you'll hear us say, and we've said it before many times on the show, that as human beings, we are mess making machines. Like that is what we do best. We are messy, you know, not intentionally. We just. That's part of our human nature, you know, in our, our plight of knowing what does work for us or how to do things and what doesn't. It's. It's just important off times for us to know what doesn't work as much as it is to know what does. And if that's the case, then as much as I love my partner, I am going to have experiences where I'm going to dump them in the soup, where I'm going to, you know, be all upset about work, for example, and I'm supposed to swing by and pick up the chicken and I get home and I forgot and, and it wasn't because I didn't love you or didn't care about you, but that's on the receiving end where we typically go, right? Or, you know, I over schedule and, and I forgot that you wanted to have me go to that wedding with you and I overlooked it and now we've double booked and I mean, things like this happen all the time or I'm out shopping and I've just got to have this pair of shoes and I totally blow the budget. And then I'm trying to figure out how to like bring it up in a convers conversation, right? So it's only a matter of time before in our relationships as a human beings, we are gonna blow it. Like we are gonna make a mistake and we're going to. To make a mess, so to speak. And so when you think about it from that angle, we're really kind of all untrustworthy when we think about it in the context that we typically talk about trust. Like if you do this one egregious thing or you make a mess, then all of a sudden I say I can't trust you. And so I want to, I want you to understand that, number one, we're all going to make a mess. Even you, even me. There are going to be places where I make a mistake and I get it wrong or I'm dealing with my own hot mess and, and I, I overlook some things that maybe I needed to be more attuned to right. In our relationship and boom, there it is. We have a problem, we have a mess that needs to be cleaned up and solved. Trust is something that we give. Trust is something that I give because I know that being in a relationship and co creating with another human being is always a risk and it's a risk I'm willing to take. So really, when I say I don't trust you, I'm saying I'm not willing to risk with you anymore. Like, that's scary for me. And I don't know how to go about doing this. You know, as we would say, trust has been broken. But I really want you to see that trust is something I give, it's not something that I receive. And unfortunately, instead of just knowing how to clean up a mess, we get our partners jumping through hoops that they become exhausted with and then they pull out and we still don't have any more trust than when we started with. And so I think it's helpful to just understand that giving part. This is something I give, this is something I risk and I know I'm risking. Right. It may go well, it may not. I can ask, I can advocate, but to insist that somebody, you know, trust you or that you trust them, it's something that you give. And so I'm really mustering up the courage to trust in situations like that. Does that make sense?

Yes.

Is there anything you want to add to that?

No. Excuse me. And I think it's, it's very counterintuitive, but when you think about it, I mean, again, it, you know, how again, if you're on the receiving, you know, end of that and your, you know, your partner's demanding that you're trustworthy. Well, they're the only, you know, I mean, you have to, what do you do? Yeah, you have to step into a new energy. And the best way to do that, in my opinion, is to demonstrate that, to extend that. Because as Stacy said, we're all mess making machines so many times, especially if, if the, if the, the whoopsie daisy is significant like an affair, it's going to be very difficult, you know, for that person that, you know, stepped out to ever try to, you know, repent enough. I mean, come on, you know, you just can't punish yourself enough. Right.

Well, and I would say yes, there, the past, that, the situation, to look beyond it and not use it as the benchmark of what's possible when trust is broken usually becomes the place where we feel stuck and it's difficult to move on from that. But rest assured, it's not about getting your person to jump through a bunch of hoops to demonstrate and prove. Right. It's about establishing the connection. Because the funny thing about emotional connection, if we're really, really in tune with our relationship, we know when it's present and when it's not. And if it's going to be a problem, it's going to show up again in the future. So we don't have to lose a lot of sleep wondering if it's going to happen again. We say, okay, I'm willing to risk with you. I'm going to put my best foot forward. Let's go forward. And right. If it shows up again, then we'll address it, right? And let's see if we can improve how it is we're showing up in our relationship between now and the future. And I think that's the important thing to understand about trust. It is the giving of risk. I am saying I want to risk with you. I don't know how this is going to go, but I want to give it a shot. And if I say I don't trust you, then you're saying I'm not feeling comfortable to risk with you anymore because it is something that I give into the relationship and knowing that we're messy, we are going to mess it up. And I think, critically speaking, we just don't know how to clean up a mess. Sometimes the best way to demonstrate that you are sorry is to say so, right. And then to make an active attempt to, right, demonstrate that as Tom had said, through being there, attuning, connecting, sharing, that's going to do way more for the relationship than any amount of hoops that you know. Now you got to buy me these things or now you always have to go with me here, or I'm texting you 37 times a day to make sure that you're still connected to me and the list can go on with the tracking devices and social media tracking accounts and all of the egregious behavior that we do to try and find some place of safety or confidence in the relationship again oft times now what steps out is me in, in forms of betrayal. Right now I'm making it up that because you had this, this mess that was made, I get to do these things on the backside that I know are not okay either. And then we're going to break down anyway, you know, no, there's no winners there, as I like to say. So trust is absolutely something that's given. We had a very brave soul and, and I, I so appreciate this. Send us a question via Speak pipe. You can do this on our website as well. Anytime you have a question, we'll do more of these. Went to our website and, and asked us a question audio clip wise. So I want to give him a shout out and, and acknowledge him for sharing this question with all of us. And we're going to play it right now for you so you can hear it from the proverbial horse's mouth.

Hello, my name is Robert Biggs. My friends call me Bobby. I have a question about sexual urges. Why is it that sexual urges for me are stronger on some days versus others? Like, like today's the 23rd, and it's stronger on this date or the 3rd, the 13th, or the 20th, the 30th, sometimes the 29th versus other times, other dates. I guess I, I just don't understand that.

Thank you. Sexual urges are a composite of our physical bodies and our emotional bodies. Sexual urges come about from hormones. If we're talking about the physical body, we're talking there, there's hormone spikes. And those hormone spikes are going to be dependent on how you're doing with your circadian rhythms, what you're eating, how hydrated you are. And that's going to all dictate the hormone levels in males and females. As to why you maybe have a high libido or not. I like to say, you know, whenever there's like a disconnect in a relationship about, you know, sexual urges or needs or libidos in question, a great place to start is to just get your hormones checked. Just, just go there. Because often that's a huge a piece that's at play in our physical bodies and we don't think about that. Now if we look at the other side, the emotional side, right, the internal world side, what I focus on, sometimes there's a flash. You know, feelings follow thoughts. And so if I were to sit and look at seductive pictures or magazines or have something that's an anchor to sexual urges in my environment, that's going to also heighten my sexual urges on any given day. And it's normal for sexual urges to be an ebb and a flow. It is for all of us human beings. So in case some of you don't know that, you know, it's. It's totally normal for us to have highs and lows when it comes to the rhythms of our bodies and of our minds. So that's, that's totally normal.

And how about, say, how can, Would, would that also those urges change with how connected and close we're feeling with our special someone? Would that, would that also play into that ebb and flow, would you say?

Absolutely. I mean, the more connected and safe we feel, we can go and act on those urges or explore those urges. And sometimes we don't realize that intimacy, sexual intimacy is a really great place for us to explore deeper the aspects of ourselves. I like to say, remember back when you were a kid and you would say, hey, let's pretend like I'm this and you're that, and then we get to try it on and play it out. Intimacy, sexual intimacy is a wonderful playground for that type of thing. And I can imagine how I might show up and explore different aspects of my personality and my, my Persona inside of myself. And we can act it out together, which is a great gift that intimacy, sexual intimacy gives us. So, no, just to recap, flow or ups and downs, ebbs and flows. And your urges, your sexual urges is totally normal. And it's going to have. It is the net, net result of what's going on in your body physically and as well as what you're subjecting your thoughts or your exposure to in your environment mentally. And then as Tom said, you know, urges go up when I feel connected or safe with a special someone who wants to explore deeper aspects of our intimacy.

So, great question, great question. Thanks for, for sharing. Now. Okay, next one. And gosh, this is a huge one that we hear all the time. What is the easiest way to improve my communication? Or we could say our communication.

Yeah, we. Back in. Was it 2018? We did like survey after survey after survey on the phone. I don't even know how many days and hours you spent on the phone Talking to couples. 2000. Over 2000 surveys were done. And the number one problem cited in relationships was our communication. And as much as I would love to say that's the culprit, it is. It's A piece of it because we're not sharing ourselves with each other. But I would say that's not the place to begin. I could give you tons of communication frameworks and teach you all the fancy words and I could diagram for you on the board, you know, how manipulation works and to stay out of it, etc. But when your emotional back gets pressed against the wall, I know you're probably going to go to two options, the first being control. We talked about that a little bit in this episode already. But I'm going to try and get pushy. I'm going to try and shut the conversation down. I'm going to try and be in charge or take control. And the other one is collapse, where I just say, do whatever you want. I give up, I throw my arms in the air, I'm checking out, I'm not present for the conversation. You know, I'll let you talk all night long, but I'm really not hearing a word that you're saying. I mentally checked out and gone somewhere. Oh, that. So until we can learn how to emotionally regulate ourselves in conversation, we will continue to do those two things. Therefore, our communication with our partners will break down and will be the thing that's sacrificed as a result. So this is why Tom and I are so passionate about teaching couples how to do emotional weightlifting. Like, it is the keystone and cross box of being successful with any communication. And, and that is the place where we need to start because it's going to be a place where only you can do the work that's necessary to emotionally regulate where you are inside of yourself. And oftentimes we're trying to put that burden on our partners who have no idea where you are and what you're feeling inside. So they're not going to be very good at helping you navigate that. We do like to blame them, but it doesn't take us very far. It'll take us to a fight and then we recycle. Emotional push ups also become our break. If you'll think about it, in communication, we have a gas pedal. It's like it's go time and we're going to talk about this and we're going to work through it right now. So we have this incredible gas pedal that we push and we attempt to get through the challenges that ail us, but there's no brake pedal. When all of a sudden the conversation and the communication is screaming out of control.

And would you say. And all of those responses, you know, that we received and talked about when people say, you know, they acknowledge they're having a problem of communication. It's usually communication around these places of intensity that we've not as a couple, but never really ever able to effectively talk about.

For sure, yes, they're going to be, there's, there's eight of them. I know that there's an episode we'll dig out for you in the show notes that talks about those eight categories that are typically very highly charged as far as topics in our relationships. And before we want to step in and have those kinds of conversations, we need to be able to emotionally regulate my passion for it, right, or my disappointment with it, etc. And so without that brake pedal, it's not really safe enough for a couple to start, you know what, taking on those 5,000 pound problems that have probably been lurking around for a long, long, long, long time. We have couples that come in that thank you, thank yaha. Shout out to all of you who have done premarital or thinking about doing, you know, premarital before we start co creating. You know, you don't necessarily need to get married in order to, to get some help and support, make sure you're on good ground and to get the training and skills that you need to have these kinds of conversations, these critical eight categories. And we have couples that have been together everything from a few months to 45 years, you know, and I always think, gosh, 45 years of not feeling like you could communicate, you've built a life on those logistics. But now they're, they're getting on in age and they want that emotional connection. And so at any age, at any time, at any point in your relationship, it's a great time to learn how to use a brake pedal. Otherwise what we do is we, we fight and it's uncannily precise and we keep thinking that we can go to a different place if we just is pull out one more piece of evidence or collect a lot of opinions. You know, Sally says so, my mom says so, the pastor says so. And to no avail. It never takes us to a different place. And so emotional weightlifting has absolutely got to be the first thing that you get good at before we can start teaching you communication.

So would that be learning how to share what's going on inside of ourself when we're feeling upset or triggered? Would that be, would that be an emotional push up?

An emotional push up would be you take it first step is taking responsibility for the way you feel and what goes on inside of you and realize that's the only thing you have the power to control. And then there's a place where we've got to create some safety so that your partner has the same permission that you do to feel the way you feel and be where you are. And then there's a window that we teach of neutrality. And that window of neutrality is, you know, tapping out or shall we say, pausing in the relationship long before you're like redlining into that survival mode or of control or collapse that I can disclose it when I start to see I'm spinning up or I'm bottoming out and I've checked out of the relationship. So much better for you to say, this is where I'm at. Let's come back around and take another crack at this, you know, in 30 minutes or tomorrow over coffee or after we get the kids to bed. Than it is to continue to just push the gas with no brake pedal. It's going to take us to the same place all the time. And as easy as that sounds, right. It's really difficult to implement and do because it does become sticky. We do think that we can just say that one more phrase or that one more piece of evidence and your partners are going to go, waha, voila, I see the light. Oh, you're so right. And it doesn't work like that. It won't work because we're talking about emotion. And emotion is oftentimes illogical. And it is what it is. You can't convince somebody that they're not having the emotional experience that they are, as much as we've tried and continue to try. So it's better to give it a space and. And then let's pause before it's redlining, right? Before we're saying things and doing things that we regret or that we don't mean because we're. We're in survival mode, survival mode of control and collapse. It just buys us time. It doesn't solve our problems. And oftentimes it can create problems. And so learning how to use this brake pedal is critically important. And then we can step in and learn some communication frameworks, right? And it doesn't matter if it takes one round, 10 rounds, 55 rounds. I just want to impress upon our listeners, we try and solve our life challenges, our relationship challenges in one conversation, and we force it typically. And that will never work, right. We suck all the safety out and you're probably not going to get through it in one setting. It's probably going to be more like 20 and better for us to come back around and do another round. Of emotional weightlifting in this area than to force or coerce. Right. The relationship. The worst piece of advice that was ever given to couples back in the 80s and the 90s was never go to bed mad. Oh, my goodness, please go to bed mad. Because if you're not going to go to bed mad, you're going to finally get into some form of manipulation because somebody's going to get tired and finally tap out. So it's just a. It's a race to the who. How do I want to say that? I have several metaphors going off in my head, but it's kind of like, you know, who. Whoever can hang in there last will win. And that's a terrible way to solve our problems. Everybody feels negated and, and, and unsafe in those kinds of contexts and situations.

Okay, give us a Cliff Notes answer to this question. What does a healthy relationship look like?

Healthy relationship looks like permission. And I love that word. To me, permission is unconditional love. It's not the sacrifice of self and substance. It's the permission for me to be where I am and feel the way I feel and for you to have that gift given to your partner as well, that they too can be in some difficult places and feel the way that they feel as well. The cardinal rule is I just don't get to take my emotional pain out of my partner. Like, that's where the line is drawn.

Don't you always say in your, in your humble opinion, unconditional love is permission and safety?

Absolutely. Well, it's permission. And permission creates a safe place where we can bring to the table anything. And in this place, we can get through anything. Aside from that, a great relationship is great because it works for the two or more people in it. I mean, it's your decision to create this relationship. You know, there's a DIY love and relationship, because as people, we're all unique, we're all different. We're all in different places of the life journey. We come from different backgrounds. And it's okay for us to create a relationship and a space with permission and safety that works for the two of us in that relationship. And a relationship that works for me may not work for you, but the underpin of all of it is that safety to bring what I need to the table. And I don't allow myself to take my pain out on you. I can talk about it, but that's very different than taking it out on you, making you pay for it, punishing you, expecting you to fix what's going on inside of me. And those are all frameworks that we teach. You know, it's important for us to get to know our movie internally, our internal movie, and to be able to translate what it is you're experiencing, your thoughts, thoughts, feelings, and emotions into a language that first you can understand. Without that ability, we end up taking out this. This emotional experience that we're having on our partners. And. And it's called, in the world of psychology, passive aggressive. So that's what passive aggressive is. So that's the line. We don't get to do that. We take responsibility for it. We learn how to do some emotional weightlifting. I learn how to advocate and ask for what I need. I. I learned to set boundaries. I learned how to tell you what works and what doesn't work for me. And I want to hear what works and doesn't work for you, too. And in that communication and the experience together in a healthy relationship becomes more about understanding. Like, I get to share myself, so I understand me a little better day by day, by day by day. And when I allow my partner to do that, I. We get to understand the other person better, too. We get this little window into who they are and where they are. And that's the thing that creates connection, that. That connection, that emotional connection that we're all longing for. So that would be what I would paint as a picture for healthy relationships.

Great place to pause right there. We didn't get through all of our questions. If you have questions that you'd like us to answer, please go to our website and share it and we will have another episode just like that.

So as we step into landing this episode, you know, we always, as, you know, like to have a. A song that correlates to the topic that we've been talking about. And I was so delighted when I found a song by side A. And the title of the song kid you not is so many questions. And then the song delighted me even further because it goes in to say, you know, there's so many questions that come up in our relationships. It's such a personal journey. So many questions and so few answers. And when we're struggling in our relationships that very much can. Oft times, I remember that feeling myself feel the way that it is. You know, there's so many questions that I can't seem to solve or to understand. And the song beautifully says that really touched me. So I encourage you to take a listen on our Spotify playlist. You can access that playlist from our website. And we have a song for each and every episode. That we've ever done going way back now, like, like 85. This is number 86.

And, you know, I just had this thought, you know, in as far as frequently asked questions, and where does one go when they have these pressing questions in their relationship? And many times we go to our, you know, most inner circle. If we have that trust with that, you know, special person or persons, that's fine. But what we like to remind people is those people that you're asking that question, they love you. Okay, so. Meaning you say, well, Tom. Yeah, no kidding. What's your point? My point is when someone loves you, in all fairness, they probably don't always have the best ability to be truly objective. Meaning no matter how thin we slice it, there's always two sides to the story. There's always going to be two sides to that question. So I'm not saying don't go to the, you know, people that you love for answers, but you just have to be careful because they don't have the ability, they don't have. They don't have the training. They've not spent time being objective and impartial and really serving the whole.

Yeah, usually that. That causes the element in families to choose sides instead of solve problems because they're going to advocate for you. You would be brokenhearted, let's be honest, if they didn't. You're expecting them to. And we do reach for those places and people in our lives because we feel safe with them, but unfortunately, they're very biased because they do love you and care about you. And that's where somebody outside of the situation that can, can look at the whole picture and have some objectivity, and not only some objectivity, but some ability to teach and help you understand what's happening and how it's playing out better, and to give you some, some tools and some skills that you can practice and implement into your relationship will take you much further than just getting another person's perspective.

And no matter how it goes when people work with us, the only place Stacy and I take a position is how it goes or how it needs to go, is to go well. Because if you have any time, you know, in history with a special someone, and then there's some children involved, grandchildren and other complexities, in the absence of it not going well, I can assure you it's going to be very, very difficult and very, very impactful for multi generations. So it needs to go well.

Well, yeah, it does. And we can do better at this relationship if we can. Well, that's it for this week episode. Thank you so much to you, our listeners, for being here with us. And gosh, if this episode would serve a friend, you know, wink, wink. We encourage you to pass it along. These questions, again, are frequently asked questions that we get a lot. So if you have somebody that you feel like it would benefit from it, share it, pass it along.

Yeah. And if, and if you want to know how we work with, with, with people, just go to our website. Especially if you go to the Work with me page or excuse me, work with me tab. It will give you a very, very comprehensive overview of how we work with our clients.

Yeah. Come on back next week and join us for another episode of Love Shack Live. It's been a pleasure to be here with you. We look forward to doing it all again next week. Until we see you again. Bye bye.

Thanks for joining us today in the Love Shack. We hope you came away with something that made your toes tingle. To learn more about everything you heard on today's show, go to stacybartley.com podcast. Love the show. Help us spread the love by sharing the show with others. Okay, everybody, time to go. We gotta close the doors to the Love Shack for this week. You don't have to go home, but you can't stay here. Come back next week, though and join us for another edition of Love Shack Live with Tom and Stacy Bartley.

I met Stacy and Tom about two years ago. I was at a point in my relationship where I was ready to file for divorce. Not that I wanted to, but I just felt hopeless and helpless. I'd been through other counseling and coaching and didn't find any success. With Stacy and Tom's methods, I was able to eliminate insecurities, set boundaries, plant my flag, eliminate rabbit holing. I was separated from my wife for a year and I have since moved back home for the last six months. Now, I still refer back to a lot of the teaching that Stacy and Tom provided, and it's helped me. It's well worth it.

Don't let fear or doubt hold you back from learning what to do about your struggling relationship. Sign up for Stacy's new mini course, five days to save your relationship. To learn the three things you're missing from your relationship and give the exact roadmap you need to take to save it. Get instant access @stacybartley.com 5days. That's stacybartley.com 5days.