#90: Why Your Relationship No Longer Feels Fun (And What To Do About It)

Humans understand psychology enough to create more problems.

I love that. You're right. We make messes and we don't even know that we're making them. Right.

Right. But we understand on some level that we can do that. I think that's one of the most fascinating things about people. So you're, you engage in control behavior, right? You start wheedling, you start nagging, you start manipulating to get him out of his situation. And what, what, what you're not privy to in those moments is that you're driving it deeper.

Hey, thanks for coming. Welcome to the Love Shack.

Hey, guess what time it is. It's time for the Love Shack. Welcome back and thanks for joining us. If you're listener, the Love Shack is a little old place where we get to get together, explore fresh perspectives, eavesdrop on some juicy conversations, and discover the things that really matter while attempting to have a little bit of fun along the way.

Absolutely. Welcome everybody. This is episode 90 and get out of the rut. Why your relationship no longer feels fun and what you can do about it.

Yeah, it can be difficult when the spark starts to wane and that relationship and the years start passing by. And let me ask you, does this sound familiar to you? You used to have some fun together, but now you can't seem to find anything to talk about, let alone have a little fun other than the logistics of life. Taking care of the kids, taking out the trash, paying the mortgage. Right. Maybe. Are we going to charge on that credit card or not? And hey, who's going to take little Johnny or Sally to the soccer game, the soccer practice, the basketball game, etc? Today in the Love Shack, we have a wonderful guest. He is our Love Shack psychologist, Mike Gorday. Hey, I gotta ask you, do you ever wonder why the things you used to love about your partner eventually seem to spin around on you and all of a sudden they're same things that are driving you absolutely crazy. And when you try and analyze it, it's, you know, not so much that you feel like you've changed, but you're just sure your partner has. They've kind of changed. You're starting to pick up on a lot of those little juicy details that you're starting to judge maybe and get frustrated with. And ironically, over time, what ends up happening is we start pulling away and of course, the fun bottoms out. There's no time for that until we fix the problems of this relationship. We feel the connection waning, but we're not quite sure how to bring it back. And on and on. The logistics of life take over, and we recognize and realize that there's none of the emotional sharing that was once present when we began this journey of building a life together. Together. Today, we're going to have this conversation. We're going to give you some tips and ideas to uncover the mysteries of why it is we find ourselves in a place where we have a difficult time understanding what's going on and understanding our partners and how to turn it all around. And ironically, it has a lot to do with understanding ourselves first and our partners, as well as knowing when to bring the fun back in to refuel the emotional gas tank. We're going to have this conversation with one of our favorite guests. He is the love shack psychologist, Mike Gorde. He calls himself a human solutions consultant, and he helps individuals and organizations dramatically improve performance by understanding human behavior. Mike and I have a lot of common in this department. We love and get geeky about human behavior. And so I'm sure this conversation is sure to be a home run for our listeners today. So without further ado, Mike, welcome to the show. It is all always wonderful to have you here. We're going to dive into a juicy conversation.

All right, thank you. It's always a joy to be here.

Hey, I thought I would start by maybe sharing a little bit of my hot mess in a previous relationship. Okay.

That's always a great way to start.

And then I thought maybe we could analyze it a little bit, you know, as we start pointing out this. I'll. I'll be the guinea pig today. And we can refer back to.

And let me just add some important context. That was a prior relationship. Hot mess, ladies and gentlemen, not the current relationship.

Yeah, I thought I said that.

Well, no, I just want to make sure everybody heard that. Hold on.

As we all go silent, are you thinking wear a hot mess?

No, no, no. Oh, I just want to make sure.

Mike, there was a minute there where I thought maybe you're gonna have to talk us off the ledge.

This is. This is turning. This is turning real fast.

This is live, ladies and gentlemen. Mike is going to help us sort our stuff out.

I don't know about that.

Wait a minute. You're the human consultant specialist. Okay, in all seriousness, okay, I ended up marrying very young. Twice. Once at 17, and then, you know, that didn't go so well. And then another time at 20. And when I felt like I had aged and matured three years, I really thought I was going to knock it out of the park in the second round. In fact, I was very Much committed to it. And I was going to not only have the greatest relationship and family on the planet, I was also going to right all the wrongs that I had made in the previous situation and circumstance. Right. Like I was, I was going to do it right this time. I was going to fix it. And I was going to prove to myself and others that I was indeed a wonderful woman.

And also follow the tenants of, of your religion.

Absolutely.

To a T. No pressure of youth.

Yeah.

Yes. Yes. Come to find out, even with my own kids. Right. And my clients, I bet you find this too. That's a very common belief that we have. Right. Like, like somehow we're going to finally arrive and get it right. I'd love your thoughts on that.

I, I, I don't, I don't really know why. Well, I do. We have. We. There's this weird propensity that, that we have to fix our brokenness. Right. And not only that, but that we can fix our brokenness or that the fact is that our brokenness, it really isn't as broken as we believe it to be broken. It is, it becomes, it becomes really weird how we approach some of these things.

I agree. And, and what if I were to propose the idea that we're not broken at all. We just make lots of messes because we don't know better. Right. But it comes from a genuine place of wanting to do our best. Right?

Yeah. We, you know, we, we want and need relationships. We. It. Where it's a, it's an imperative. It's a biological imperative for us to have relationships not only on a social level, but, but on a sexual level and an intimate level. You know, we need these various things for our survival as humans. And it also translates into our survival of our psych. Psyche.

Right.

Otherwise you're running around with a Wilson volleyball and chatting up a storm with something that's not really there.

So true. Also, that's not what happened in my marriage. But what did happen was I ended up marrying somebody who wanted to be perfect too. Which starts to set the scene here for the perfect masterpiece. Dysfunction. He un. Unknown, unknowingly. Me too, because it wasn't a diagnosis at the time. Had bipolar. We know that now. He was a rapid cycler. For any of you who know what that means, I'll just toss that out there. And the combination of that was. He was a heck of a lot of fun. Like, he was so fun. The spontaneity and the incredible adventures that we had, man, it was a hook, line and sinker. When we were dating and I really felt like I had found my best friend, we could, you know, go on these whimsical, spontaneous trips over the weekend. I didn't know they were coming. We take a red flag, you know, red eye flight out and come back. I had no idea where we were going. I'd just show up home and have two suitcases, right. I'm thinking, what is this? I've never experienced this before. We could go from skiing to dinner to dancing all night. And I really felt like this was going to be a home run. And then it would bottom out and, and he couldn't get off the couch for three months, six months, nine months. And I would think, okay, no problem. I. I got this. I got this. And as the frustration and not knowing how to solve this problem and, and remember, I was trying to be perfect. I was trying to get it right this time. We can't be having this. We can't be having this.

This.

There's no room for this. I really thought it was all him. And so then I would push and, and get manipulative and, you know, bang on the pot pan, so to speak, and, and get a little pushy and a little critical and a little judgmental and I'm sure a lot of manipulation in there. And of course, that helped to inspire him to get better right away.

Oh, absolutely. Yeah.

And so, you know, he would sink deeper into his depression. His addiction started to pick up. All of a sudden, how we both coped is he would just go missing. And there was a part of me that thought this is really kind of dysfunctional, but it's kind of a relief. Right. And as I. Sure, I assure you, it probably was for him as well, to get out of the critical environment that I was staging. And here's the thing. The bias on my part was I really felt like I was doing everything I needed to do in order to help us get better. And he didn't know how to tell me that it wasn't working other than in fits of rage, etc. Okay. And so now we have the perfect mess playing out here. Okay.

Right, Right.

So let's break that down a little bit. Let's talk about some of the. The biases and the. And the distortions and how it is that. So with such canny position, I now know precision, shall we say, not position, but uncanny precision. We can create these even though the circumstances are different. Right. For each. And it very much has a similar pattern in regards to how it plays out. Right. How our relationships go from oh my gosh, I can't live without you, I love you so much to. Okay, like, who is this stranger in my house?

Exactly. So let, why don't we start from the very beginning?

I love it.

Right? So you get together and there's this. In the beginning of a relationship, you have what's called limerence. Right. You're familiar with that term, limerence?

Yeah. But I think you ought to, I think you ought to explain that for our limit listeners, because I don't think most of us are.

So limerence is that superior feeling of infatuation that we get with our, with our significant others. And it's, it's a heightened sense of dopamine, you know, gives us this really great feeling and, and we want to ride that. And a limerence is a biological surge of, of the yummy stuff. Right.

I call it the magic carpet. Right?

Yeah. And it's, there's a lot of, you know, oxytocin involved, a lot of dopamine, a lot of serotonin, and, and just these wonderful, wonderful feelings. And it's very drug like. And what it, what it allows us to do is it allows us to come together and overlook the things that might normally drive us, drive people apart. So it's, it's a, it's like glue. It's like this really fun glue that, that we get, we get gooey with. And limerence, limerence can last, you know, up, up to two years is, is what, what the science says. But eventually that starts to wear off because humans weren't designed to maintain high states of, of behavior or not behavior, but emotional states. Which is funny because we're always trying to reach these emotional states and we want to stay there. If you ever talk to these very, these people that are like, looking for ultimate happiness, you know, they're, they're trying to reach this state of joy that's like all or nothing. And that's one of the things I was mentioning earlier about how weird some of this stuff is. We don't, we think that if we're not experiencing some nice emotion that there must be something wrong with us or if we're experiencing a really bad emotion or a negative emotion, there's definitely something wrong with us and we have to get it fixed. But that's not the case because as a human being, we're always going to be going through and then we have homeostasis. That's where we want to stay. We want to hang out in this place where it's kind of neutral. That's Our, that's our starting point. So you get into this limerence and you're talking about all this stuff, right? You're like coming home and there's all this variety and everything like that. And that's, that's a desirable trait, except for the fact that when it becomes a non desirable trait. Because what we really want as well is not variety. We don't like a lot of variety in our big schemes because that keeps us, that having too much variety keeps us on our toes and keeps us experiencing spikes of, of emotions that we really don't need.

So because we're dealing with the unknown, correct?

Yeah.

We are afraid of the unknown. That's one of our biggest fears is the unknown. In fact, we are so afraid of the unknown that we're always trying to figure it out, right? We're always trying to figure out about death and, and nobody wants to talk about death, but we're going to figure it out. You know, how are we going to figure it out? We're going to figure out how to, how to, how to, how to get immortality through medical interventions or how to download ourselves into, into artificial electronic entities. You know, that's.

And yet on the flip side of this, Mike, you know, that's kind of what refuels us too, right? If we haven't, if we're kind of flatlining and we feel like we want to get a bump. It's variety and novelty that kind of get us like, oh, that's fun. It kind of walks us, you know, wakes us up out of this state of complacency as well.

Right, exactly. Exactly. So we find this person and, and this, this limerence surges and we're just, we're just all in it. We're just bathing ourselves and in Yummy. And it becomes, and, and what it, what it. I think in, in an evolutionary sense, it's really that binder that, that, that goes towards that monogamous relationship. But what happens is over time it, we. It slips and starts to go away and we start going back into our routines. And a lot of times when we get past the limerence stage, we start focusing on the normal again. And then we start, we realize, oh yeah, we have bills. We can't be, we can, we can't be going someplace every weekend. We can't be doing this all the time. We have life to live. But you know, part of us is really missing that limerence. And so we're, we start trying to get back to it by a combination of behaviors. One, one is we're we're trying hard to hold on to this, like, okay, we got to get our bills paid. We got to do this. And you get into a rut over here and you're like, oh, I remember when we used to do that. But he's, you know, he's doing this his thing too. And we're trying to get life together. And one of our problems, I think, is that we always look for the most, simplest solution. Because when you talk about the human and patients, those things don't really mix well.

Well. And you know, the other thing that I find is we really don't talk about the problem like we're dancing around it and we're kind of leaving an innuendo and, you know, we're not really getting to the heart of what the problem is. So it becomes very, very challenging to solve the problem. Right, right.

So, so in respect to you, you know, you're talking about another, the biggest comp, another complication here is a bipolar disorder, which for those who may not understand that, that's, that's mean. We have somebody who goes through what's called hypomanic or manic phases where they're very highly elevated in, in energy.

They're charming, they're funny, they're creative. They have wild imaginations that are fantastic.

Yep. And it can be. They don't sleep, they have hallucinations.

That's true.

There's, there's, there's some other stuff that we don't, we don't all commonly recognize a lot of risk. Risky behavior follows, follows in there. Right. And then what happens is again, because we're not, we aren't set up to maintain these high states of, of energy. We crash. And so with a bipolar, they crash and they tend to stay there for long, longer periods of time. Manic phases, Tempe, typically are short term and the depressive phases are longer term. And so what you mentioned here is that he would, he would bottom out and he, he couldn't get out of bed, which is common. And we look at that as a problem. And what was the problem for you?

The problem was the mortgage wasn't getting paid. The problem was he wore a hole through his robe because he sat in it so long. I could see his butt through the worn out fabric. The TV was on 20 and I felt like a one man show. You know, it's kind of like that idea of being single with none of the benefits. Right. He literally could not function.

Right. So you, you were like, what the hell happened? First off, how come we're not jetting off to.

Exactly.

I don't know where to this weekend. Where did that go? And then suddenly I have a. I now have somebody else that I need to take care of. And I don't remember signing up for this. Right. So you start to feel crappy. Right. You start to. And, and because you're not sure why you're feeling crappy or something, we tend to do what's normal, and we start to externalize everything. We get. We get angry, and we don't want to feel that. So it's his fault. It's your fault. And, and then, so what he. What did you try to do? You tried to make him get better because that was the fast. In your mind, that's the fastest way to get back to where you wanted to get to. Right?

Right.

And so we understand. See, that's the funny thing. We humans understand psychology enough to create more problems.

I love that you're right. We make messes and we don't even know that we're making them. Right.

Right. But we understand on some level that we can do that. I think that's one of the most fascinating things about people. So you're. You engage in. In control behavior. Right. You start wheedling, you start nagging, you start manipulating to get him out of his situation. And what, what, what you're not privy to in those moments is that you're driving it deeper.

Well, and I also turn into a version of myself that I, I don't even like. Right. I'm turning into aversion in my own expression and how I'm showing up in my life as you know, there's this moment where you kind of go, man, sometimes you're saying mean things and you're doing mean things. This isn't who you want to be. This isn't how you want to show up. You know, you feel like you're turning into a morphing monster, but you don't know what else to do. Right. It's like, I. I don't know how to solve this problem. And the more you panic, it's kind of like the more you turn into this proverbial monster trying to just. Now you get desperate. Right. I'm trying all kinds of things to try and get this going.

Yeah. And. And then, and then who do you blame it on? Do you. Do you blame.

It's all him. I. I'm going to church. I'm. I'm doing the dishes. I'm keeping the house clean. I'm paying the. I'm doing it all. So obviously it's not me. I'm not the one on the couch.

Right, right, exactly. So what, what's really happened is that what, what we start doing is we start externalizing our belief systems on the. Onto that other person. And then we start trying to manipulate that person or coerce or anything to get that person back to where our expectations lie. So we have decided and made a decision that, okay, this is not cool. This is what I want. I want this person. I want that and I want that back. And so I'm going to take that belief that, okay, this is what you sold me when, when I was out on the, the car lot the other day. This is what you sold me. I want this. And so we externalize our behavior onto that person, trying to get them to come back to where we decide they need to be. And that never works. We, We've been doing it since the dawn of civilization and we're still watching it in play everywhere today. You know, politicians do it, your boss does it at work, your, your siblings do it. Everybody is externalizing their, their belief systems on you and on other people to get them to be more like them or the way that they think they should be. And it, it, that's where conflict says so over time, we start getting worse and worse and we're like, this ain't never, this is never going to get better. So f this, I'm out, I'm done.

We didn't, we didn't want our, our eternal marriage to dissolve. You know, I don't know how long that is, but it's. It seemed like a really long time at the time that there wasn't any options to dissolve the relationship. So of course the next best thing was we're just going to go missing. Right? You do your thing, I'll do my thing. Right. And, and then there was just a world of dysfunction that started to become normalized in our relationship. Right. Things that you know, are like, crazy and dysfunctional and, and yet to keep it together, here we are. And sometimes I would. I remember sitting in my car and scratching my head thinking, I can't believe I'm playing along with this. Like, this is wild. This is the craziest stuff in the. Who are you?

Right, right, right. Yeah. And that's, and that's what, that's what we do. We adapt to the situation because humans, the, the best thing humans are able to do or adapt to things. So we adapt to the situation. What you call normalizing. And when somebody looks at, into, from the outside Looks in. They're going, oh my God, that is nuttier than a fruitcake. Yes. And we're going, well, I don't know what you're talking about. This is just normal stuff.

This is what we do.

Yeah. Nobody, nobody goes out and takes a second mortgage on their, on their house to drop a dime on a gambling weekend in Reno and blows it all. Okay. That's not normal. But it seems normal to us. It's normal.

Well, and here's the thing. When you try and get help and support outside of the situation, right. If you do get brave enough sometimes to share and open up with your friends and family about what is going on at home, you know, they have judgments. They don't have solutions either.

Right, right.

They don't know what to do either.

Right.

And that's what, that's what you know. So, so internally we're working on this conflict with the person, the work, we're working on the conflict within ourselves. Then we go out and we seek out people who are a, going to support our positions and, and, and give us the advice that we think we want to hear. And it, it really turns into the it. We, it just messes. Mess, More mess, more mess.

Yeah.

All right, So I have to say so Mike, you're the scientist. Give us the good. So how do we turn, how the heck are we gonna put some fun back in that situation?

And you know what?

You're going to be a magician if you can convince our listeners. That's what I'm just saying.

Okay, don't get married.

Don't Just, just.

I'm kidding. Absolve relationship.

On a note, because you had said the dopamine ride. You know, I'm curious, from the science perspective, what do you think about couples who are now step into actually conversations and contracts around non monogamy and polyamory? Like, okay, maybe we don't have to give up the dopamine carpet ride, right? Maybe we've just had it all wrong. And maybe if we invite others into our relationship, it's going to fix everything. Right. We can keep the newness alive. We can have some fun and maybe we can ride that dopamine carpet ride a little while longer.

So when we, when we, we talk about, we're talking about a culture over, over something else. So the polyamory group, they're, they're, they've formed a culture and so they have taken their ideals and expressed it into a group situation which everybody in that group agrees to. One of the, one of the things that we can look at from an objective sense is that it's possible that, that that agreement is so that they can keep looking for limerence and other relationships and be able to keep the stability and the non variety of the founding relationship. Right. Because again, we want that stability in life. We don't like, we don't like surprises that we don't consider positive surprises. But at the same time we need variety in certain area. So with the polyamory group we could say, and I, and I can't speak from experience here, so I don't want to offend, I don't want to offend that, that culture. But from the polyamory group, they, they are looking at sort of an idea that they have this, this solid foundation and they, they can go out and get these new relationships that are, that are making us feel good and things like that. And, and so, so they're looking, looking to replace their limerence that they've lost with the other group.

But, and it seems logical, right? It seems logical. I can see where that conclusion might be in a moment. A really great idea. And I don't know, I'm not part of that culture either. And you know, there might be some credence to it.

There, there, there is some credence to it because is, it is a persistent thing. The, the everything then comes back to the individual and whether or not they can emotionally support that system. That's where, where, that's where all this stuff comes down to is, is whether or not we can emotionally support the system that we are engaging in. Whether it's simple monogamy, non monogamy, polyamory, or whatever. It's whether or not we are capable of emotionally supporting that system. Yeah, that's, that's where we sort of mess things up a lot because we have problems supporting our own emotional safety within ourselves on a daily basis. Yeah. Much less a term of relationship time, you know.

Absolutely. And as I love to point out, you know, it's, it all works great as long as you recognize that there's a relationship with me, then there's the relationship with my person that creates the foundation and then there's the relationship with this second, third or fourth person. And not only is it that second, third or fourth person, it's my partner's relationship with that second, third and fourth person, it's my relationship with that second, third and 4th person and it's their relationship with us. So all of a sudden you've just magnified and instead of having four relationships, which is a traditional monogamy Relationship, me with you and you with me and me with myself. You've now just like exponentially taken it to. Now you're doing 12 relationships. You're navigating them, you know, so that's where the emotional like, ability to navigate that comes into play. And the couples that I work with that are engaged in this, that's the tough part. And I love the way you said that. I just want to highlight the individual emotional ability to support that system or that culture. And that's a very individual decision in deciding if that's something that you can manage or want to manage or take on or not. And I think sometimes we don't talk about it so that we can make some decisions and choices about what would work or what I want to try or attempt to try in those scenarios.

Right. And, and it, it obviously becomes more complicated the more people we involve in this situation because we're talking, we're talking about things like boundaries and, and communication styles and there's just a whole slew of, of emotional responses and things like that. What, what, what if the one person gets jealous? How do you handle that kind of, and, and how, what, what type of value you place on certain activities? You know, from, from a, from a monogamy standpoint, the whole idea is that you're sharing, you're sharing not just the intimacy and, and thing, but you're, you're in love making. Yeah. You're excluding everybody else from that sexual relationship. Right. Whereas the, whereas if you're into a polyamory situation, you're allowing that to be part of every relationship. And that's, that can be a very difficult thing to emotionally handle because the sexual relationship that you have with your partner is very key to the, the survival of the relationship because it generates. One of the things that I have an issue with, I think with modern, with modern viewpoints is that we've trivialized the sexual relationship so much that people roll their eyes when we talk about, oh, you know, there is, it's just sex, but we're talking about some serious emotional bonding and biochemical bonding when you, when you have these, when you have these relationships. So it can, it, it's really confusing in just one relationship where that variety doesn't happen. Right, right. And then so you're adding other people. So. Yeah, I mean, again, it, it's, where are you going to allow, Are you, are you able to handle the, the vagaries of those particular group cultural values?

Yeah. From an emotional standpoint of view, we can wrap our head around the logistics of being sexually engaged with multiple people. But we don't understand the emotional ride that. That can take us on. And I think that's where sometimes we find ourselves in situations where we're struggling. I just, as a side note, I know that we need to move into the fun, and obviously this is a conversation we need to come back and continue. Right. We're just starting to barely, barely scratch the surface here. But because of where I grew up as a Mormon and I started to learn and study herbal medicine and health, Right. I ended up studying with a wonderful family or group or shall we say community of polygamists. And, you know, there's all kinds of interesting jokes, et cetera, going on about, oh, man, you must be so lucky. You can go from house to house to house, and you got six different wives. And the reality is it was challenging as heck. And what kept them in that dynamic was the idea that they were building to some kind of a celestial glorified place. And the reality was all the men were down at the bar going, oh, I hope none of them need me. I, I can't. I can't do this anymore. Right. And the women are all clamoring for attention. And so, and it was interesting to see that from the inside view in regards to what we're saying. And it really is the emotional ride that I think we, we often very much underestimate.

Okay, so now back to how does Mr. Scientist bring fun back into your prior scenario? That's what I want to know.

Well, interestingly enough, the science does show that we can re. Engage some of that limerence after it's gone away.

Okay, that's good to know.

So we can actually get some of that back. And that's, that's, that what, what the problem is is how, how do we, how do we overcome the. Oh, I'm just so done with this.

Yes.

And get to. Okay, we're going to do this, right? And, you know, we, we talk about date nights and all this other stuff. You, you forget. I think you forget about the relationship when you're trying to make a successful marriage.

That's.

Well, right. So you, you, you, you start thinking of the marriage as something that needs to succeed, and then you forget why you got married in the first place. You forget about the relationship that you had before because you're so busy concentrating on all the marriage stuff, the bills, the kids, the, the mortgage, the jobs. And, and you, and so you go into that rut, you go into that, that stable situation where, you know, okay, well, my spouse is Going to walk through this door at 10 to 7. He's, he's going to throw his coat on the floor, which I'm going to have to pick up later. He's going to go directly to the refrigerator, get a beer and sit on the couch and watch football for the rest of the night. That means that I get to do this. I get to go over here. And I know that's, that's pretty. A stereotypical look into the American thing. And that's not always what happens, but we do that. We, we anticipate what's going to happen and we get to a point where we expect things from them and then when they don't get them, we, we go through this disappointment phase and then we finally accept it. Oh, well. And so we, we move on with our lives in a sense. Right. You talked about how you were like just existing in life together without actually being together.

Absolutely.

So how do we, how do we do that? Well, you know, aside, aside from the, the inner work that you really need to understand what's going on, you, you try, you recreate the life of us as you did when you were younger, right? You, you, you make time for that other individual and you have to, you, you know, you have to sort of get equal representation there. You can't make them do it. But how often do you wish that you would come home after you were married and find the suitcases out?

For sure. Well, and it's, and it's, you know, I, in just looking back, you know, one of the biggest takeaways is I look back and I, I will always look back to that relationship as it's taught me so much about myself. And it's, it's actually what drove me into doing the work that I did back in 1996. It kind of started my whole journey. So I have much to be thankful there for. But as I look back, I can tell you that I had to learn how to drop the blame, the manipulation, the blame, you know, all of that finger pointing and realize that actually I was part of the problem. I was playing absolutely my role. That we can't shame somebody enough to inspire them to want to work on our relationship or to turn things around. Right. It has to come from a place of, hey, I know this is really messed up and I know we got some problems here, but I want to do it with you. And it's amazing how little teeny tiny bits of knowing or being reassured that you care that, that you want this to work, that it does matter, right? That this is something that we value. It goes so far. It goes so, so far. When we finally start to have those kinds of conversations. I think the ir being in a relationship and finding yourself in a really broken down place is that you forget you care in the first place. Like, if you didn't care, you wouldn't be mad, you wouldn't be frustrated, you wouldn't be disappointed. Right. And we forget that we care at all.

Yeah. Yeah. And then we. We decide, we make a decision somewhere that this isn't worth it, and you mentally break up with them. Right. That's, that's. That's what you see in a lot of marriages. Then you see it in a lot of. Seen a lot of cohabitation too. Right. They just mentally broke up with each other. Their life works the way it is, and so they live the way they have, but they have other interests and they do other things and, and it's. It always is funny when one of them finally cheats, right. They go out and find a relationship and the other one gets bent out of shape about it.

They're. Well, they're shocked.

Yeah. They're like, I didn't see this coming. Oh, why not?

Yeah.

You know, you're a part of this. That means that shows you how much of a part of a world you weren't involved in because you didn't see it coming.

Yeah.

It's not, it's not to, you know, blame or shame or anybody, but we, we do this to ourselves because we. We are always seeking homeostasis. We are always seeking that. I don't want to feel like this. I don't want to feel bad. I don't want to feel like my partner doesn't love me or I don't want to feel like my partner doesn't care what I'm doing during the day or so. We start building those little mental blocks up and like, oh, well, we'll just pretend to look like a cool couple when we go out with our friends, but really we're just gonna, you know, do this.

We're going through the most.

So, Mike, let me ask you. So knowing that, or at least it would be my sense and understanding that fun and novelty is a easy place to bring some of that limerence back into our relationship, why is it that we have such a resistance when we're kind of going through the depths of, you know what?

Because we want the other person to solve the problem for us.

Okay.

Right. So we. We're like sitting there. Oh, I really missed that. I wonder. I wonder. Well, to hell with him or to hell with her. If she's not going to do it, I'm not going to do it.

I, I hear a lot of women say, gosh, I wish they were more romantic. If they could just be more romantic, this was all going to be okay. And I. What are you doing to create romance?

Exactly? You know, in, in the example, in the example that I used just a second ago, you could take that sort of aspect and, and plan a weekend instead of waiting for him to do it it. Because that's what we do. We're like waiting for them to do. Well, they, he used to do that. Why isn't he do it now? And so, so we, we, we sort of, we. And so we get pissed and we get a, we're like, no. Start making up little confirmations in our head that this is never going to work out. And so we, we, we entrench ourselves in our own, in our own stewing pot while we place them in some position of, of of manageability.

And a no win situation.

It's a no win situation. It all, and it all, it always starts with the person, right? So as a couple, as a couple, you're always going to go through ups and downs anyway. There's, there's no smooth sailing in any, any part of this because something's going to happen. You know, your kid's gonna visit and be sick all over the new carpet you bought, you know, or, or somebody's gonna wreck your car that you just bought or, you know, something's gonna happen that's going to put pressure on the relationship. And, and when, you know, it's about focusing on the relationship. What kind of relationship did you, are you looking for? And how can you, how can you do that? And then, you know, going, of course improving your communication skills is always a good thing. Going to see a counselor as long as you understand it's not the counselor's job to fix you. It's the counselor's job to sort of point out ways that you can fix yourself.

Right. You know, show you some skills, give you some tips and some tools and strategies that you've got to practice and implement. Otherwise you're probably not going to go anywhere.

Yeah. And, and really it's, it has to be, I think it has to be something that both of you are craving. If, because if, if one is completely checked out of the relationship, you really can't, you really, there's not a whole lot you can do to get that back.

Well, I see it play out in two ways. In my, in my work, one person will start. And the way that they start to show up in the relationship changes over time because they're working on themselves. And then the other person goes, oh, hey, wait a minute, that's. What are you doing? Hey, I want to go. Let me try. Maybe I can. If you can do it, so can I. Or I see it that both people are willing to really, really work on it. And then of course there's. Even if you are the one that's working on it, the thing I want to point out is, regardless of how it goes, if you're the one that's working on yourself and you know that you've done everything that was possible within your realm as a human being. The only thing I can ever do in my own life is get myself to the table. Right? That's my job. And that's the job that only I can do. And I, I can't force or coerce anybody else to do that. I, I would have won that one if that was a working strategy. And yet if I find and discover I'm doing my part, I can more clearly see and understand why it's not working and I can find some completion with that. And so if it doesn't go so well, yes, there's going to be some disappointment there, but I'm going to understand why. And I'm going to know that I did the very best that I could. I gave it all right, I gave all that I had to it in an attempt to turn it around. And that's, that's staying off regret. It's when we get to the other side and I know I did everything that was in my realm or ability to do, even though it may have not worked out the way that I thought it was. I don't have that low level regret that goes, if I would have tried or maybe if we'd have done this, or maybe if we'd have, you know, done some of these other things that people were asking me about or trying to teach me or show me, I'm going to feel complete. And I think that's the gift of always being able to, you know, choose in if you can. And sometimes we're not right. Sometimes it's just not in a. We're not in a place where I want to take on myself or I have the bandwidth or the courage or the ability. I'm just not in a place where I can do that right now. And that has to be part of the equation.

Yeah, that, that, that is definitely. It so becomes A wonderfully complex creature. When we start, when we start looking at this stuff and we start thinking about how, what we know is we can recreate these things. How is often a question, you know, to be explored.

But I can tell you, I can also share this. And then we're going to have to wrap this up. I will say that being able to solve the problems that are. We are facing in our relationship, they. It's not that there isn't solutions. It's that we run out of emotional gas. It's that we finally throw the arms in the air and go, I just can't do this anymore. Like, I'm tired, I'm exhausted. I'm not doing well. I just have got to stop this. If we were to think about adding some play and novelty into the relationship, just to keep. Right. Refueling the emotional gas tank, then we can buy time to address some of these things that ail our relationships. And yet we don't, we don't go there. Right. We just take it as far as we can. I sure did. And then it's over. Right. We don't. I guess this is the point in time where we tap out. Right?

Yeah. And it's. And you know that I think that's one of the ideas behind the religious conviction of marriage is to force you to stay into it so that you do work it out. And again, we, we don't like that. We've decided that's not good enough. I'm just going to get the. I'm just going to go down the courthouse, get the paperwork, and I'm going to start again. And nine times out of 10, we go and we seek out a partner that exactly replicates the same relationship we just got out of. And we get all lemur, see? And we're like, yeah, this is the person I was supposed to be with in the first place. I don't know why she didn't show up earlier. And this and that and this, that and this and that. And then, you know, three weeks, four weeks, months down the line. Wait a minute.

Yeah. I call that a do over.

What happens?

Well, Mike, it's always such a pleasure to have you here. Thank you so, so much.

I love these chats.

Yeah, yeah, we're gonna. We'll definitely have some more of them, I'm sure. Happy 4th to you.

Yes.

Family. And I'm sure we'll be in touch soon.

Alrighty. Thank you, Mike. Thanks for having me.

You bet. Hey, we're not gonna do a break. We're gonna just.

Oh, we're not gonna through.

I think we should, because.

It'S a.

Perfect segue into our follow the fun. You know, we just got talking about novelty and play. I asked why is it that we have such resistance and not. I could be. You opened up the dictionary under that. Why is that? You could look at me sometimes. Stacy says, why are you resisting something that, you know, you enjoy so much?

Great question.

So that's why we always do a follow the fun. It's important. It could not be more important.

Well, and it doesn't take much to refuel us. It really doesn't. And a little novelty and a little play, especially when we're going through a difficult time, can make a huge difference. And guess what? It doesn't have to be some big extravagant trip or weekend or some expensive thing. It can be something really simple. And that's kind of the underlying clue to our follow the fun moment, where I want to encourage you to create some space for romance. Here's the thing. We are living in an age where we have more time saving devices and strategy and less time than any other time in history.

It's kind of like an oxymoron.

It really is. And it's like we're so busy rushing around, thinking that we're going to be able to get ahead of it that we never take the time to just simply slow down. And ironically, that's when we do refuel. And that's where, you know, those moments of tenderness and conversation and sharing pop up. And that's really where that's where that takes place. So this week I want to encourage you to simplify, to slow down, to intentionally create some time to indulge in the basic pleasures of life. After all, when the two of you can enjoy some quiet moments together, you have what it takes to get through a difficult time and to see a future as lovers. So let's practice. I'm going to invite you to spend an entire afternoon on the couch, reading, relaxing and sharing with your person. No rushing allowed. I'm going to encourage you to first choose a book you desire to read or heck, take a trip to the actual bookstore and the two of you each pick a book out that you would love to enjoy in your afternoon together. And then I want you to put the world on pause. Allow yourself to unwind and sink into the couch together with your favorite beverage and snacks. But there are a few rules that I want you to keep in mind as you're spending that afternoon on the couch relaxing. Number one, as you relax on the couch, I Encourage you to be touching each other. That could be toes touching, legs intertwined, sitting side by side, or laying in your partner's lap. Touch in a way that suits you and feel free to switch it up in those touching positions as your lazy afternoon unfolds. Next, I want you to set a timer. Hey, Siri, set a timer for an hour. Hey, Alexa, set a timer for an hour. And every hour, I want you to get up, I want you to stretch, refresh your beverage, grab a few more snacks, and kiss your person before you settle back into continuing the reading of your book. Anywhere is okay. A forehead, a cheek, a nose, Right on the lips, the neck. Tom came up behind me today. Before I show and kiss me around the back of my neck. It's amazing where that takes you. And then go back to reading. And then when you have that timer go off and you've done that kiss, I want you to take a few minutes to share about what you're reading. What are you enjoying about what you're learning about the author, about the book, about the story? This has the potential to open up conversations that you'll be surprised by. So give it an opportunity to just share a little bit about what's going on for you. The key is this will help you slow down, set the world aside, and truly just enjoy being together as you share and learn and grow from the book that you're reading. So I want to do that. I want to do that right now. How about you?

Well, we do. We do this a lot. I mean, we share a lot, you know, around things that I find, things that you come across. Book that we're reading. Sometimes we read a book together.

You can do that too.

You can read a book and just take turns. You know, someone can read and then problem with Stacy and I, I a lot of times say we can't read this book together because we can't get through one page. Then we have an hour discussion on the one page. So it's going to take a long time to get through that book.

We won't get through a book. So, hey, and if you're not already, get on our fun list. We give away gifts, not only give you tips like this each and every week, but we also give giveaways the first of every month, which just remind you it's coming up next week when we're in the love shack doing our follow the fun, we'll have some prizes that we will raffle off for you. So as we wrap up the show today, as we do each and every episode, we leave you with a song that we feel embodies the conversation for today. And Mary Isabel, where does the love go, man? Does that sum it up? Where does it go? Can you find your way back home? As we run circles trying to figure out the problems of the day? You can listen to that on the Spotify playlist that we have for Love Shack listeners, and you can access that by going to our website. Hey, we're Tom and Stacey Bartley. You know, helping couples navigate through the difficulties in their relationships is what we do. If you need help and support, we are here for you. All you need to do is reach out, okay? So until next time, it's been a pleasure to be here with you. And thank you so much, Mike Gorday, for your willingness to spend some time with us today inside the Love Shack. It's always a pleasure to be here with Mike and our listeners. Thanks so much for being here with us.

We'll see you soon.

Bye. Bye.

Thanks for joining us today in the Love Shack. We hope you came away with something that made your toes tingle. To learn more about everything you heard on today's show, go to stacybartley.com podcast Love the Show. Help us spread the love by sharing the show with others. Okay, everybody, time to go. We gotta close the doors to the Love Shack for this week.

You don't have to go home, but.

You can't stay here. Come back next week, though, and join us for another edition of Love Shack Live with Tom and Stacy Bartley.