#91: Pregnant, Mormon at 17 in Salt Lake City: My Journey To True Love & Relationships

You know, it was almost like having to tell my mom and to face the principles of the church and the community. That was more impactful to me than getting pregnant itself. Like, that was a bummer. You know, I'm not going to lie. And I had no idea how to deal with that. But the feeling of letting my family down, the feeling of, like, disappointing not only my family, but my religious community was devastating to me. Like, that was where the pain really laid.

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This is episode 91, pregnant and Mormon at 17 in Salt Lake City. My journey to true love and relationships.

Yeah, this is something that I've been asked to share, and I'm happy to share because we can learn and understand so much through other people's stories. And I'm not going to lie. This is one that takes me way back to the year of 1981. And in 1981 was really when I stepped into the journey of really doing the work that I do now. But I had no idea what was coming for me. I had no idea how to navigate what I was experiencing or where I found myself. And neither did my family. Right. It was kind of something like, I say. I say to our clients, we figure this stuff out as we go, and, boy, has that been true for my journey as well. And so I'm going to share this story with you. We're going to get really raw and real, and Tom's going to hold my hand as we do it, and he's going to ask me some questions that you're probably asking yourself as the story unfolds. Like, well, geez, girl, do you not know how pregnancy happens? Like, you know, you didn't have to go there. I know. I heard that. I heard that before. And we're going to help you understand why it unfolded and what it is we did about it, and more importantly, how it contributed to my journey and maybe how it applies to your life and your journey today, right now. And the reason why we want to travel back here is because it helps us start to understand the experiences that we have in our lives really impact us, and they help us become who it is we have the capacity to be if we hold them in that light. So I'm going to invite you to travel back with me to the year of actually 1980. And the reason why this was a significant year for me is after being with my mom for 10 years, just her and I, my older siblings had left the home. My father died when I was quite young. So my mom and I had spent 10 years basically doing our own thing. And she met somebody, and his name was Stan, and they fooled around and fell in love. And in the year of 1980, they decided to marry. Now, that all sounds great on the surface, but the thing that we don't share much about is that the fact that Stan and I didn't like each other so much. There was no love lost between us. And he wanted and loved my mom deeply, but had to deal with this teenage girl now who's about 16 years old. And so as we moved into his home, which, looking back, might have been something to consider, he put me in the basement and basically said, don't. Don't create any kind of a ruckus. And I said, okay, I'm gonna. I'm gonna do my best. Now, our household was very Mormon. He had been a Mormon bishop. And for those of you in the church, that's gonna mean something. And for those of you who are not in the church, it's not gonna all basically think of it like a priest. Like there's a conduction of a congregation. And being a bishop is a very significant role where you have, shall we say, influence and the responsibility of taking care of many people inside of your ward, which could consist of about 300 families, tops. And he had done this for many, many years of his life. And my mom was very dedicated to the church as well. And quite frankly, so was I. This was all I knew. I was born and ra in the Mormon faith. And of course, there is a very explicit rule that you do not have sex before marriage. And it's so explicit that they categorize it in the. The. Shall we say, the sin category, right next to murder. So if you end up having sex before marriage, it's a sin that lays right below taking someone's life. So it's. It's a pretty big deal. And there's a lot. Especially as you, like, come up in the church as a young woman and a young man, there's a lot of conversation about how to withhold the biological drive to procreate in the church. There's a lot of maybe not so good metaphors, like, you know, nobody wants goods that they don't, you know, they can get for free. You know, why would you. There's a wonderful saying that's coming to my mind right now, that says, why would you pay for the cow when you can get it for free? Terrible. But these things are taught and promoted to help us err on the side of being able to abstain from sex or the engagement of any kind of a biological drive to make sure that we can make it to the temple to marry for time and all eternity. And I don't know how long that is, but it seems like a pretty long time, even now at facing and looking at 60.

So I'm going to just try to keep things. For us listeners that don't maybe have the, you know, the familiarity with this particular faith and body and religion certainly sounds to me that what, you know, happened to you, what you, the choices that you made, was about as far away as the typical kind of storybook upbringing, if you will. What happens to a young woman and a young man in, in this faith?

Well, yeah, and, and, you know, I was, I, I always thought that I would, I would do it by the book. You know, that's the interesting thing. I always thought that I was going to be a really good Mormon mom and I was going to marry and I was going to have my kids under the guise of what I had been taught and what I truly believed in at the time. And, and then here's what happens. And this often happens in our lives. I moved in with Stan and my mom, and as I had already shared with you, there was no love lost between us. Like, we would just assume not be in the same room together. And he tried to be this influence in my life from a very punitive standpoint of view. I mean, picture this. He was a tank commander in World War II in France, and he was a hard head, and he didn't have room for dialogue. It was kind of his way or the highway. And quite frankly, I also didn't appreciate the way he treated my mom. And so it set up this dynamic in our home after we had moved in and they married in the summer of 1980, of me trying to protect my mom, because I'm coming from a place where this was never part of our family. There, there wasn't a lot of, like, bullying and control and posturing and things that in this day and age we would call like narcissism. And he would mistreat my mom. And my mom was trying to decide how to navigate that. And, and when my mom says she's going to get married, you know, especially in the church and in the temple, like, that's a big deal. Remember, it's for eternity. And so she's trying to make this good and she's very committed to making it right. And it created this dynamic where I was very much standing up for my mom and it would put my mom directly in the middle. And I could tell that she was really breaking down and that the conflict between Stan and I was becoming highly acute. In fact, you know, even after the death of my dad, watching my mom navigate through that as a very young girl, I'd never seen her in such a state that she was in after marrying Stan. Like, it took her to these deep places where I would come home from school and. And she would be in the room crying and not being able to get up for the day. My mom was never like that. Like, there was a strength inside of her that I always. And a resiliency that I always knew was there. And as this unfolded with Stan, you know, it didn't help my relationship thinking that you're, you're unkind, you're mistreating, you don't get to do this in my 16 year old wisdom. So needless to say, it started to play out a lot of conflict. And I could tell that my mom was the one that was paying the ultimate price being in the middle. And so along comes my high school boyfriend. And my high school boyfriend had big muscles and a red truck and he could come and get me and pick me up. And quite frankly, I think my mom preferred it when I was out of the house because it would kind of keep things quiet for her. There wasn't so much contention and conflict to navigate. And so I would do my studying over there other than, okay, the environment on the other side of Rex's family is not Mormon. It's not tight, it's not restricted. And in fact, there was a pair of frogs having sex on the coffee table. So it was a completely different environment. But I can tell you this, every time I showed up at his home, I was, I was greeted with a smile and with the acceptance and the love that I was missing at home at this particular point in time. Like, they wanted me to be there, they were delighted that I was there. They would. We would go to fun activities, we would have fun experiences, we would have laughter, we would have conversation. And so if push came to shove, where would I rather be? Seeing my mom in a state of like, hurt and breakdown and conflict, trying to navigate this experience between Stan and I, or over here in this other place where they loved me? Being there, it was a delight to be there. And then let's Just say there was a lot of permission and safety. And so this is where I would choose to spend my time to. To do my studies. I felt smart, I felt beautiful, I felt accepted, I felt loved, I felt appreciated. I felt all these things that I wasn't getting at home. And as time played on, of course, you know, in relationships, even as a young person, so does the biology. And I didn't know how to have the conversations about sex, and I didn't know how to have the conversations about what I believed in. And I didn't know how to stick up and advocate for myself. It felt like a very foreign conversation because what I was taught was that you just don't go there. You just. You just don't. You avoid it, and you don't go there. And remember, you know, that's unholy and it's not okay and it's not acceptable. And I couldn't even go to my mom to ask her about sex or to. To talk to her about birth control or anything like that when I was kind of like, having the idea that maybe this is where my relationship with Rex was going. And I didn't feel like I could also talk to Rex's family about it. I just didn't have that kind of a relationship with his parents. So I did the normal, natural thing. I went to my girlfriend who was in high school with me and said, hey, you know, I know you're in a relationship too. You know, is this coming up for you? What do you think? And she gave me the wonderful advice of, hey, don't worry, I totally got your back. I've done a little bit of research, and all you need to do is douche after having sex, and you're going to be fine. Okay, great. I didn't know any different. You know, that's the other thing. When you don't talk about sex and when you don't have these open dialogues, then you don't know what you don't know as a human being. That's kind of our limitation made sense to me. I'm like, no, okay, that's. That's what we'll do. That's where we'll go. And so that's. That's what I ended up doing. And again, didn't know how to say, hey, I'm uncomfortable with this, because quite frankly, the biology was very desirable. That's. That's a natural trajectory of relationships. And I finally just said, okay, I. I can navigate this. I can do both. I'll just kind of keep it my own Little secret. And then In February of 1981, I ended up finding out that I was pregnant. Now, the irony of the whole story is that at this point in time, my boyfriend and I had broken up like Rex, and I had decided that I wasn't okay. I was uncomfortable. This is conflict with my own values. And so I had broken it off with Rex, and I had gone to my bishop in the Mormon Church, and I had confessed what I had been doing, and I had essentially gone through the process of repentance in. In. In that religion. And I felt like I'd gotten through it, and I was done. And I was going to put my life on a new path, and I was going to get back to the church and the principles that I knew. And I found out I was pregnant. And here I stood, not knowing how to tell my mom, you know, and not having the boyfriend anymore. And I felt very, very conflicted in regards to how to put my life back on path, because now I'm falling just short of, like, taking somebody's life. And I wrestled with this for a couple of days before saying anything. But I do have, you know what, Montres, Honestly, I don't have a memory of somebody telling me I was pregnant, but I do have the memory of telling my mom. And that's where things start to get a little challenging for me. You know, it was almost like having to tell my mom and to face the principles of the church and the community, that was more impactful to me than getting pregnant itself. Like, that was a bummer. You know, I'm not gonna lie. And I had no idea how to deal with that. But the feeling of letting my family down, the feeling of, like, disappointing not only my family, but my religious community was devastating to me. Like, that was where the pain really laid.

So was there also feelings of embarrassment and shame?

Oh, for sure. Absolutely. In fact, if I were to tell you what the feeling and the space in the air was there, like, I remember sadness so heavy that I didn't know how to endure it in. In just the space of my own experience. And I remember sounds of, like, crying and yelling and. And myself and my mom. And I remember this incredible sense of, like, life slowing down, like, days turned into years. And I remember being so frustrated because I just wanted him to pass quickly. I wanted to find a way to, like, avoid what was happening. And instead, it was like this trauma event where everything started to slow down and everything became very heavy and very intense.

Almost as if you could cut the. The incredible levels of discomfort with a Knife.

Yeah. And I remember specifically, like, if. If I were to tell you a smell, you know, I was thinking about this, it would be the smell of disgust, like, for myself and that. And that's what I felt when I had finally opened up and told my mom that I was pregnant. Wow.

The smell of disgust.

It was just this, like, yuck. And I know that the people that loved me the most. My family, my mom and Stan. I mean, Stan was. He was like, all right, I always knew that you were a blank, blank, blank, blank, blank, and more fuel for.

The fire on that side.

And, yes, it turned very, very ugly and very, very.

How about your family and your mom?

So my mom, you know, I've always known. I've never, ever questioned, not even for one second, whether my mom and my family loved me or not. Like, that has always just been, thankfully, something I knew was solid and foundational. And I did know that my mom was also conflicted and struggling with. Okay, I know the proper thing is to, like, push you out and make you pay for what you've done here, but I love you, and I want to support you. And I could tell she would vacillate back and forth between these two places. And as we started to explore the conversation. Okay, well, we have a little bit of a problem here, don't we? And what are we going to do about it? The conversations very slowly started to unfold, and we were both, I know, mustering up the courage to have these very difficult conversations that absolutely needed to come and be placed on the table. And I remember opening the conversation one day as we were sitting around the kitchen table.

This is you and your mom.

My mom and I. And she said, do you really think that you have the capacity to love another human being? And I think the smell of disgust and shame for me was so deep. I remember my immediate reaction was like, gosh, do you think I'm a monster? Like, of course I have the ability and the love and the capacity to care for another human being. I mean, I. That's who I am. Like, that's the core of who I am. I love humans. And I remember that, like. Like being a knife in my heart, like, geez, this is. She's looking at me worse than I thought. Right? That's where I went. And as these conversations started to unfold, basically I was giving these options, and they. They were in this order. Stace, I think the best thing that you could do is we're going to send you to my aunt's house, which is my mom's sister in Seattle and she's going to take care of you and see this through. You're going to have the baby, you're going to give it up for adoption and you're going to come back and get back to school. And I remember, okay, on one way, one hand, that sounds like okay, we can just cover this whole thing up and be done with it and nobody ever has to know that this is an experience I've had and my life can carry on as a now turning 17 and then I thought I, I knew enough inside of myself. I'm never going to be able to be okay with that. Like, like that sounds like a secret. That sounds like I need to be more guilty. I don't know how I'm going to be able to run forward with that in my life and be okay with that. But it was a consideration. The next one was just, you know, stay. Well, you know what, I can't say stay. Adoption was also offered to me, to my brother. And I have a brother that at this particular time ironically had lost a beautiful baby by the name of Emily to a stillborn at about eight and a half months pregnant. And they were very much grieving loss of this child. And for the family this seemed like a haha, you know, the replacement for this beautiful daughter that they had lost. And Tata, this is going to work out perfectly. You can still have access to the child, you can go back to school. We're just going to pass you along to, to my brother's family. And we had some pretty in depth conversations with not only my mom, but my, my brother and his wife. They had two children at the time and it was very kind and thoughtful for them to offer that to me. And then of course there was the option of get married. You're going to call up Rex, you're going to let him know that you're pregnant and the two of you are going to get married and you're going to pretend like nothing. This is normal and this is natural and you're going to make this right. That was the, that was the way to make it right and get my life back on track. And that was even more preferable than, shall we say, the adoption option.

So never was the option to not get married. Have the child and we'll support you however we can and you'll raise this child as a single parent.

No way. Like, Stan even came to me and said, if you think for one minute I'm going to support you through this and that you can live here and have this Child, you need to know right out of the gate that that is not going to happen.

So clearly that was not an, not an option.

And notice that wasn't even part of the dialogue. And I, I'm sure my mom and Stan had some very intense conversations about that.

Oh, yes.

And, and I, then I explored abortion on my own. Like my, that, that same friend, by the way, she ended up pregnant in the same year. We, we have kids the same age. She had a boy and I had a girl because of her fabulous advice about, you know, sex and how to not get pregnant. Anyway, story for another conversation, she went with me and we actually explored what that might look like too, in my moments of desperation. And I just have to say, you know, the one thing that, as I look back, that really, really served me, which was another struggle of an event when my father died. When my father died, I was kind of bounced around from aunt to uncle, aunt to uncle, aunt to uncle. And I didn't know it at the time, but as I grew into adulthood, I realized that my mom was trying to protect me from all the upheaval and grief and, and logistics of my dad passing, as well as freeing her up so that she could be at the hospital more often with him. At the time, I just kind of felt like passed around and I couldn't figure out why all my older brothers and sisters were able to be with him and I, and I, quite frankly, wasn't. I was kind of set aside. And so I remember the day that my aunt told me that my dad died. And in that moment, all I really wanted was just my family. You know, I wanted my mom to tell me it was going to be okay. I wanted my brothers and sisters to surround me. I wanted what was familiar to me, and I had to grapple with that on my own. And I remember finding a swing set where for whatever reason, while I was swinging back and forth in that swing, I was able to find a peace with inside of myself that somehow told me it was all going to be okay. And of course, when I found myself now fast forward, you know, a few years, 10 years to be precise, as a pregnant mom having these options and not knowing which one to choose and which one was going to help me move forward in my life. Thank goodness I had had that experience because I knew exactly where to go back to. I went back to that place where I felt like I could find my answers and to gain some comfort and some foundation and footing in regards to what was really going to work for me. Because what I became really attuned to was that the decisions I make in this moment are going to affect the rest of my life. Everybody else is going to go on and be able to do life as they know it, you know, for themselves. But the decisions that I make, whether to keep the child or give the child up, give it to my brother, go to my aunt's house, those were going to be impactful moments to me and how I was going to view life and myself going forward. And I think that's a really important thing to take note of. And so I, I mustered up the courage eventually to decide I was going to get married. But I must confess, in my 17 year old, like, should I trying to avoid this or face this head on, right as I'm mustering up the courage to make this very, very difficult to decision. I, I had a, A boyfriend that was madly in love with me. And I remember him calling me and.

Saying, this is someone in it. Not, not the father, not the father.

He calls me and he says, hey, you know, you know, I've always been crazy about. You used to call me sweet pea. Sweet pea. You know, let's. I, I got you. I don't care that you're pregnant. We're going to raise this child together. I'm going to save you. It was like he was trying to rush in and save the day and I was totally buying a hurt line, hook line and singer and he says, we're gonna meet me at the train station and we're gonna run away together and then we can get the heck out of here. And in the moment it was like, oh, that sounds so great. Like, oh man, does that sound like a wonderful idea.

We all had those.

Oh yeah. I mean, like kind of avoid my family and facing this and getting married and all the difficulty that was playing out and those long, long days that were continuing to just be so painful. And so I had agreed in this particular evening that I was going to meet him at the train station and.

The next bag packed.

Oh, I was in the process of packing it actually, and I just literally hung up the phone and started packing my bag. And I call this a Gus moment. God, universe and spirit kind of intervening on my behalf. And my sister showed up and my beautiful sister, who I love and adore so much, and she just sat down on my bed and I know she was struggling too with how to support me or how to handle this. And knowing that my mom, she was also a huge support system to my mom.

So at this point, just to bring the listeners up Everyone and your, all your, your siblings and your mom. This was a very much of a top of mind in your family.

What?

Stacy was navigating and the family was navigating.

Okay. And it went on for weeks. Like, what are we going to do? How are we going to handle this?

Gotcha.

Okay. Should we, should we punish her, you know, or bring her in, you know, how do we dance?

So Stephanie walks in, you're packing your bag to meet your sweet pea boyfriend to go to onto the train.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah. And my 17 year old wisdom.

Well, that, that, that's a, that's a heck of a solution there.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

It's amazing what we can buy into though.

Well, you know. Yeah. I mean, sometimes it's very, very difficult to turn and face, oh my God, the situation that you find yourself in. And for me, this sounded like a great way to avoid it all. And after all, you know, he loved me. He professed his undying love, even when my, my boyfriend, the father of the child was a part of my life and we were in a relationship together. And I might add, he was of my faith. Not only that, he was the president of the seminary club, which was a really big deal. And so of course he had to be a great guy. Right. Okay. So I'm thinking, oh, maybe this is my answer, right? It's gonna, it's gonna really help me out here. I'm just gonna escape and avoid all of this and run away. So I'm packing my bags and just ironically, I. I hear the knock of my sister. I didn't know it was her. I opened my bedroom door. She sits down on my bed and, and asked me to sit with her for a minute. And she can see that I've got a bag out. And then I'm kind of putting some things in it. And she says, what are you up to right now? And I said, well, I'm just packing some clothes, you know, trying to sort through some things. And she says, you know, Stace, I have no idea what you're going through. And I know this has been difficult for not just you, but for all of us. But she says, I want you to think, Keep one thing in mind as you decide what you're going to do going forward. I want you to remember that you don't want to ever do anything that you're going to regret later. And I want you to remember that you come from good people who love you and you come from a good name. And I'm going to encourage you to really honor that and maybe that will help you face what it is you have to do now. And I remember thinking, oh, gosh, that's not going to work. You know, I'm going to defile me. I'm going to defile my family name even worse, which is the thing I was trying to avoid. Right. I didn't want to bring any more harm or embarrassment or judgment to them, which is very much happening and playing out in our community, our religious community. And so I realized that I was going to have to change my course of action on that, that somehow I was going to need to muster up the courage to face the music and somehow find a way to do the right thing. And so I remember calling him and saying, you know what? Dill's off. Can't. Can't meet at the train station. And he was very accepting of that. And then, you know, we started planning a wedding. Rex very much wanted to get married and get back together, and especially now that he knew that we were expecting a child together. And my mom kind of vacillated, you know, we're going to plan a wedding. We're not going to plan a wedding. And. And kind of teetered back and forth there. And eventually we did get married in our living room, and Rex and I found an apartment. Thank Goodness he was 19, a little bit older than I was, and he had a good job, and we could, you know, find a way to financially provide for ourselves. And my mom spent a weekend helping me set up shop, and then disappeared. And then when I had the baby, she came and helped me for two or three days and then disappeared again. And it really was kind of a moment where there was a wedge between us. I. I knew that she loved me, but just didn't know how to support me. And so there was a lot of time where I felt like, oh, gosh, I need to. I need to figure this out on my own.

How about school now? So when obviously, you were in, you know, not, you know, high school, right. You get pregnant and then you don't. You're not allowed to stay in the high school, are you?

Yeah. You know, back in 1981, there were no permissions or space for somebody to be pregnant and continue high school. And there was no, like, aftercare or direction that they would point you into. Yeah, there were alternative schools, but it's where, you know, no disrespect, but it's where people who are struggling with, like, heavy trauma and drug addiction and those kinds of things were coming from, you know, not somebody who was a Good student who had found themselves in a very difficult situation. And so I ended up basically meeting with the principal and he promptly printed off my credits for high school that I had obtained up to this point in time. And, and he walked me to the school door and I remember him saying something to the effect that it's. It's really sad that this has happened to you. And I don't have a lot of hope for your future. You know, you've kind of blown it here. And most people in your situation, as this plays out in the future, find themselves on welfare and, and such because education is such an important aspect to being able to get ahead in life. So I just want you to know, Stace, as you shook my hand, I wish you all the best. And out the door I went of the schoolhouse with my certificate of classes that I had accomplished, you know, my credits for classes taken. And I, I, that was a good thing. You know, as harsh as that was. I remember standing outside that school door on the porch and on the steps of the school and thinking, I'll be damned. Like, this is not going to be the way my life goes. And I'm so glad you brought that up because now there's a fire in me that I'm going to prove everybody wrong. I can do this. I'm going to finish school and I'm going to go back to college. And I don't care that this has happened to me. And I, and I will find a way. And you know, my, my birth sign is an Aries and I can get a little fiery. And, and that was the thing that really lit a fire under me, like telling me I can't do it. Telling me that I, I won't be successful, that I am. I'm basically because of this, this, this mishap or this mess that I've made, this mistake. Right. That we call. It has happened in my life that I'm not going to be able to go forward and have any chance of success or a better life. I don't buy it. I, I refuse to buy that. Thank goodness. Thank goodness I didn't take his words to heart. And so we did marry. And of course, as you can predict, it didn't last very long. Very quickly we realized that there was a reason why we'd broken up in the first place. But Rex was very supportive financially and helping us have this child and bring it into the world. And that particular child has been such a gift to me in so many ways. She ended up being a daughter, and her name is Brill. And if she's listening to this, I want to just. Oh, man, have we traveled some. Some years together. And I bring this story up to you today, and I share this with you for the sole purpose of a few key points that I want you to take away. I want you to first recognize and realize that the experiences that we have in our lives, they contribute to who it is we are and who it is we're becoming. Like my love of relationships and my passion to help people overcome messes and that it's actually possible, like, you can overcome anything that you find yourself in. And I mean that with a total underscore. And sometimes when things seem the bleakest, that's where we need to turn and face them and navigate through them. And sometimes we need support to do that. And it's okay to need support. We all need support from time to time. And as I found a place to get through high school and to graduate and step into college, I had so many wonderful people who could see my drive and my fire to be better, to better my life for myself and my daughter. They would support me in unimaginable ways, like so many gratitude, moments of gratitude. And thanks for people stepping up and saying and cheering me on. You can do this. You know, I hear. Let me help you with this. Let me show you the way here. Let me. Let me teach you how. Tutors and teachers and college presidents and professors at the local schools that would cheer me on and. And help me enroll. And I ended up not only graduating high school, but stepping into college and thought I was going to be a secretary. Did you know that?

Yes. You've shared that with me before.

Oh, okay. I just want. And. And the other point that I. I want to make is that life and love is. Is full of incredible risks that we never know the path and the. And the path that it's going to take us on. All we can decide to do is choose in. And it's always a risk. You know, I had no idea that the decisions that I made were going to play out like they have. But there's a wonderful quote by a wonderful writer by the name of Jeff Goines who says, when your past makes sense in your future, you have found your destiny. And that is so true for me. From the death of my father, helping me realize how important relationships are in our lives, that they're precious to the struggles of trying to decide how I was going to navigate and step into the relationship, adult realm at an age of 17 and finding my way, realizing that I Loved being a mom that I loved relationship that I loved being with a special somebody. It just wasn't that special. Somebody who was going to be my forever person. And quite frankly, I've had the opportunity, privilege and gratitude of loving many people who have taught me who I am and who it is I have the capacity to be through the many mishaps and trials of relationships. It has been such a journey that has taught me and inspired me in so many ways. And so many of the frameworks that we teach and that we share with our clients come from these same learnings. As I reach for understanding through school and science and human behavior and psychology and therapies, as well as just my own experiential journey, I just. If I could shout it from the rooftops, right, we can move on. Our hearts do heal. We have the capacity to love many, many times, again and again and again. And the only thing that's going to ever stop us, right, like me trying to run away from it, trying to think that hitching a train and avoiding the uncomfortable emotions was going to save me. I look back now and know, gosh, it was just going to make things so much worse. Like it was going to put, you know, my shame, my family's shame, my community, and my religious environment in shame. And most importantly and most detrimental is the shame that I would carry myself for making such an incredibly poor choice instead of facing the music, so to speak.

So let me ask you if you know where you sit now and taking yourself back and thank you for. I know, babe. This is, this is a, you know, significant share. Talk about being vulnerable. And hopefully for our listeners, you're understanding. The reason why we're sharing this with you is really important, I think, for all of us to realize that these types of situations are happening in our world now much more than they were when Stacy was at her age. Why? Because our world has changed. The chance to meet someone from other cultures, from other religions, from other places in the world is, is, is reality. And so with that comes, I would say some of the most significant challenges that we are honored to, for our clients to serve are these types of cultural challenges, religious challenges. So when we're not paired up with kind of how we think our children or people in our family should be paired up with. Okay, so let's not act like these things don't happen. They're happening at greater levels of incidents and percentages of incidents. Just study the numbers. So this is important. So my long winded question is then, what would have been like to have somebody like we are in our clients lives for you when you're that age, what would that have done for you?

Well, you know, it would have, it would have prevented a lot of shame and guilt. And this is a story that we'll have to get into at another time. But you know, this incident played out for many, many years in my relational experience because I carried such deep seated shame and guilt about what I had done not only to myself, but really to my family and to my religious community. I found myself always feeling like I was less than or not good enough. And I was always trying to compensate for that. And so I wouldn't, I would choose into relationships where I was trying to prove that I was always good enough. And that really played out unsavvy for me. Like I would always find myself putting up with and going along with things that really didn't work for me. But I felt like it was my duty to make, to be a good wife, to be a good mom, to make it work for my husband, to try and somehow pay the penance so that I could get back in the good graces of my church. And unfortunately, what it would do, it would just break me down. And the choices that I was making were men that were taking advantage of and were manipulating me, not intentionally, but because of where they were too. You know. So for example, my second marriage was, you know, this conversation of we're going to make our way back because he had made big messes and I thought, oh thank goodness, and I'd make big messes. And we decided we were going to make our back and our way back into the religious community. And of course that had its own pitfalls and follies that we'll share with you at another time. But suffice it to say, regardless of what played out and how it went, they were all really great learning journeys for me. Hindsight at the time, they were very difficult at the time it just felt like another mistake or another mess that I had made and I was just never going to be able to get it right and redeem myself to the point that then I finally just swore off relationships altogether and said, forget it, you know, I'm going to do this my own way. I'm going to stop trying to kind of fit into this. And I also swung really hard to the other side where I almost kind of became the person who was doing the manipulating right. We're going to do this on my terms, we're going to do this my way. And I don't need no man and all right, this is going to. How it's going to. How it's going to go down. And, and that was its own learning journey, you know, for me, of going, no, wait a minute, now I'm out of balance. The other direction. Let's. Let's come back and find some more grace in regards to a place that's more congruent with who you truly are in your essence.

And I, I think it's also important is making sure people understand and realize, look, Stacy and I, we are not anti. We're not anti religion. We're not anti anything. What we are for is wherever you find or if you find yourself, I should say, if you find yourself in one of these difficult places specific to, say, culture and religion for this particular episode is what we are absolutely about is having it go well. Because in the absence of it going well would be a version I would sense and I would assert would be something that Stacy went through. So again, it allowed her to grow and become a better person because of it. But we all have heard experiences and stories where that's not the case. So you might have two people in a relationship, and one person is starting to feel like they're. They're drifting away from their culture or they're drifting away from their religion, and the other partner is still very much in there. Well, we're very much about helping them navigate the couple at hand. Navigate. How might you make that work? Everything is navigable as long as all. Everybody is open and sharing and there's permission and safety in the situation. So it's not one person or one side is wrong and one person or one side is right. You're never going to get anywhere what it is. It's a very personalized, individual situation, but nothing can happen. And you hear this, us say this over and over without permission and without safety. And this is where we are very skilled to bring that safety. Many times the safety has to come from outside skilled facilitators, because otherwise you already would have had the safety or you wouldn't be in the situation.

Well, and I just want to point out that even though I'm no longer practicing Mormonism, most of my family are, in fact, our roots go very, very deep in that we had ancestors that came across the plains and settled Salt Lake City. So it runs deep in my family and in my heritage. And when I stepped away from the church, you know, that was a Big Gulp moment, not knowing if my family was going to really accept me or not. That's a big conversation in the Mormon Church and, well, in other churches as well. Right. This. This. This threat of being pushed out. I knew I had to step away, though, because there was a critical moment where I knew I was breaking down instead of breaking through with my church. And I stepped away. And there was some. There was some disappointment and heartache there. But through conversations with my family and because I had learned and studied mediation and human behavior and therapy and trying to put my own wills on at this point in time, and this was many years after my pregnancy of the first child, and I had married the second time, and we had gone through the temple and tried to make it right and do it perfectly, and then that fell apart. And then that's when I started to kind of go, wait a minute. I've tried to do all the things. Things right. And I'm still not successful. I'm still not thriving. I'm still not becoming the person I feel like I need to become. And that's when, before the divorce of my second husband, we stepped away from the church, and I had to confess to my family. And now that, okay, I'm stepping away from the church. I'm going to let go of this. And there was a lot of disappointment and heartache there. However, because of our respect and love for each other, there was openness, conversation and dialogue back and forth. Not in the beginning, but over time, as they could see that I was going to still support their families and show up to church functions where I could. And they did their best to try and support and understand where I was coming from. And literally our communication became about understanding each other and where we were in our journeys. And we let go of feeling unsafe. Like, they had to enroll me back into the church and that I had to enroll them out of the church. That we could just allow each other to have the choices and the permission for those choices as they played out in our lives. And we could find other ways of cheering each other on and supporting and loving each other. And I want you to know we've also done this in couples where one couple decides to stay in the church and. One couple.

One person of the couple. Yeah, one person in the.

Because you can do that in. In relationships and in families as well. But it is so, so scary. I remember being in that place when my second husband started to waffle in regards to our agreement to make this all right and perfect. Right? And he started to waffle in the church, and, oh, boy, that was a big deal. Like, I was like, this isn't okay me. This is not going to Go well, you need to pull it together. I was really harsh and very judgmental, just as people had been towards me at this point, point in time when I was 17.

Well, I would sense. I mean, it's, it's. You correct me if I'm wrong. I mean, it feels like. And it sounds like it's like you're literally being rattled at the core of your foundation.

100.

Yes. And it's all, you know from being brought into the world.

Right? Yeah. And to have somebody who has a new and refreshing perspective of hope on that, that there is a way to navigate through this man. Would that have really served me. And quite frankly, I. I choke it the life out of my second husband, you know, and, and taught me a really good lesson about safety and permission. That's so, so, so important in our relationships. Many more stories to tell on that front, but so important and critically necessary if we truly want love in our lives. It can't come from a place of obligation. It's got to come from a place of permission.

Why don't you finish with this incredible quote that you want to share with us as we wrap up this part of our life?

I think I'm going to finish with this idea. Wherever you are currently in your own journey through love, I want you to believe in yourself, to navigate through it in the very best way possible. Face the scary stuff and don't be afraid to get hope and support. Because the reality is, as human beings, we're messy. We make messes. If there's a way to mess it up, we're going to find it. And we all need a little help from others from time to time. And let's change this story about how this is supposed to go. Love, it's risky business. Let's face it and tell the truth about what it is. But let's not let that stop us from loving. Because then we miss the juice of life. We miss the opportunities to grow and expand into the incredible people we have the capacity to be. I want you to know you can do anything difficult, sometimes it's just mustering up the courage to turn and face it. That was certainly the case for me. So we're going to let that sink in for a minute and believe it or not, we're going to come back around. We're going to have a little bit of fun, because that's what we do. But let's take a breather for a minute and we'll be right back. Hey, babe. Did you know that the average couple spends only two hours a day with each other. And the majority of that time is spent eating, watching TV and surfing social media rather than connecting with each other. And if children are involved, my gosh, it's even less time than that.

I know, babe. That's why you created our conversation cards, for connection, because they're the perfect conversation starter. So the next time you're sitting on the couch, rather than turning on the TV or grabbing your phone, pull out a card and get ready for some good old fashioned laughter and loving connection.

Yeah, you can get your your cards@stacybartley.com.

Alternative Talk 1150 Talk Radio for the.

Body, mind and soul.

Welcome back inside the love shack. Tom and Stacy going to be stepping into a little bit of follow the fun. What's the fun?

Well, for our new listeners, I want you to know we do this every single time on our podcast because it's important for us to know we can shift gears anytime we choose to. And sometimes we just need to put those problems on the shelf and go have a little fun so that we can refuel to get through the many difficulties that we know at some point in time, if we're not facing them now, we're going to have to face in the future. And it's always the little things, it's always the simple things that refuel us. But it's got to come from a place of novelty and play. And today we're going to reward those who are on our fun list. And if you're not on our fun list, you can certainly get on our fun list by visiting our website@staceybartley.com There's a place where you can sign up because we're going to give a giveaway, which is what we do the first week or the first episode of every single podcast every month. I'm sorry, I said that wrong.

That's right.

Correct me. Here we go. Say it right.

The first, the first episode of every month is we have a giveaway. Stacy just said maybe every podcast, maybe every episode, maybe. But anyway, at the moment, it's the first episode of every month we have a giveaway. We're going to bring in our awesome engineer Eric. We're going to put him on the spot here.

He's going to choose a number between 1 and 100. And what are we going to give away today? We've talked about the giveaway, but not the the prize. The prize is going to be a signed, personalized copy of our book sent right to your door.

Stacy's book is now out in or it's been out anytime now. It will be out in paperback. So.

Okay, so drum roll. Wait a minute. I got to get the list. Let's do the list. Here we go. And I got to put on my glasses, Eric.

Okay.

All right, Eric, go ahead.

I think we're armed and dangerous now. Fire away.

Awesome. Well, it's July 7th, so seventh month, seventh day. Why don't we go with 77?

Whoa.

I thought for sure you were going to do 14.

It goes up to 77, right?

Yes, it does.

Well, seven, seven, seven. I love it. I love where.

Well, here's the drum roll as we find out who it is.

Love it. We're gonna go with some.

Just some of the email.

Oh, I know. Here we go. E, E, JJ, T B at. I'm going to leave that part off, but that's an interesting email address. E, J, T B. We're going to be reaching out to you via this email address.

Congratulations. Edged.

At mystery.

Yes. Very good.

We'll be in touch soon and. And receive your mailing address so that we can get your gift in the mail out to you. And as we get ready to circle this episode, we're gonna also leave you with a song, because we do that every episode as well. We want you to feel what we've talked about and what we've explored together.

And great song this week, ladies and gentlemen.

You know, I think we've shared this before.

All right. You could probably hear it every day and it would be applicable, but, man, it.

It sure was a song. I remember the first time I heard the song. And this is a song by India Irene, and I love her. She calls herself acoustic soul. She's just an incredible lyricist and musician, and I resonated with her starting in about mid-1990. She had a song, though. When it came out, I literally sat on the bed and had to cry for a minute. And this song is called strength, courage, and wisdom. And the words are, you know, I must step out on faith and show my face. Man, if I had many, many rounds of that. I've been a victim for too long. Freedom is mine to take and it's true and available for all of us. And then she. The chorus line says, you know, like, strength, courage, and wisdom, it's with inside of me and it has been all along. And so I encourage you to listen to this song and let it resonate with you, especially with the conversation that we've had today. Anytime my knees are shaken or I'm feeling a little weak, like, man, this is a big one, I'm not quite sure how to face and face and take this one on. I'll let India Irie sing in my ears and somehow it just helps me find and muster up the ability to turn and face what I need to face in the moment. So I hope that it resonates with you too and as you play that song in your own life, that you'll find the courage to face whatever might be going on in your life.

And if, if you yourself again are going through a something like this or you have someone in your circle, we would respectfully ask, you know, share this. This is important. We all know of these types of intense, you know, circumstances and challenges or you have read of one or heard of one, and you know what? There is an answer, there is a solution, and this is what we do. Stacybartley.com Work with me will share very simply how we work with our clients. There's many different ways. It's a, it's not a one size fits all at all. But the first thing you have to do is be able to turn and face it.

That's usually the hardest part. You know, I was on a train, man. I was on a train out of here. I'm not quite sure where it would have taken me. We didn't even have a destination. I don't even know how we were going to pay for it.

It was just, I think that's, that's the real, real story of what many of us would metaphorically do we many times, you know, but yes, at some point in time, the answer is be able to turn and face it. And yes, it's incredibly helpful to have skilled and, and objective and impartial people around us to help us take our next best steps.

Yeah. And a shout out to my sister today. Thank you so much for saving the day. You have no idea how timely that was. And also, you know, if you're knowing that you need a little more fun, you know, maybe a giveaway wasn't your thing today, but you can go back to many of our episodes and there are things that we actually lay out and give you step by step to do and implement. So you can listen to those as well. You know, you can fast forward through the episode and just get to the follow the fun moment. So I think that's what we need to do right now. Mr. Bartley. I think we need to go step out and go have a little bit of fun. What do you say?

Sounds good.

Okay. It's been great to be here with you inside of the love shack. Thank you so much for listening and spending some time here with us. And gosh, if you have a conversation that you would like to have or questions about love and relationships and sex that you have burning in you right now, don't hesitate to reach out to us and let us know what those are because we're committed to having the conversations that matter most to you. So until we see you again, ta da for now.

See you soon.

Thanks for joining us today in the Love Shack. We hope you came away with something that made your toes tingle. To learn more about everything you heard on today's show, go to stacybartley.com podcast Listen. Love the show. Help us spread the love by sharing the show with others. Okay, everybody, time to go. We gotta close the doors to the Love Shack for this week. You don't have to go home, but you can't stay here. Come back next week, though, and join us for another edition of Love Shack Live with Tom and Stacy Bartley.