#92: The Truth About Step-Parenting: What No One Tells You

My dad called me. I was at my ex husband's company Christmas party, and he was like, hey, Brooke. Brookie. That's what he calls me. I have really great news. And I was like, okay. I was like, getting a little nervous, like, what. What is he gonna tell me? I'm gonna propose to Stacy. And I just. I remember I sat down on the stairway in the hallway, and I just felt like my world was, like, not crashing down. That's too dramatic. But I just felt like, oh, my God. I. I didn't expect to feel the emotions that I felt. I just felt really overwhelmed. And I was like, dad, are you sure this is what you want to do? Like, this is a big decision. She has a lot of kids. And I just could see my life changing greatly because me and my dad were and are very close and. And I just felt like I was going to lose him.

Hey, thanks for coming. Welcome to the Love Shack.

Love Shack.

Welcome to Love Shack. It's a little place where we get to get together, have wonderful conversations, ease drop on them, learn some things about sex, love, and relationships, and have a little fun along the way. Today, you might notice if you're joining us video, that we have an extra little compadre here. This is our wonderful daughter, Tom's biological daughter, my stepdaughter. And the reason I point that out right now in the opening of the show is this is going to be substantial in the conversation that we're having about step families. And step families can be really challenging, right? And everybody has their own journey and perspective that sometimes we forget about, especially when two people are falling in love and think, oh, my gosh, this is my person. This is going to be amazing. We forget oft times with our biological children that they might be in a different time and space and unique experience that maybe they don't even know or understand. And that's the topic of what we want to talk about today. We want to dive deep into the conversations of how to navigate through the ups and downs that happen and take place when two people fall in love. And then there's a whole family that's coming behind as a result of that. So stay with us. We're going to jump in, share some personal stories with you, and give you some new, refreshing perspective on what to expect. You know, what are the realities of step family and how you two can better navigate the inevitable ups and downs that are coming. And we are going to dive into the topic of blended families today. What does it take to blend a family? How do you navigate the pitfalls, right? And oft times, the disappointment and heartbreak. I know, for Tom and I, in our own story, we got really excited about falling in love and could think about all the great potential and possibilities of us merging our families together. And it's like, oh, my gosh, it's going to be so great. I can't wait.

They're going to feature us on the Disney show.

All.

All eight of them. My six, his two. And then we had 13 grandkids. Actually, not at the time, we had 10 grandkids. We've expanded by three since then. And we thought, oh, my gosh, this is going to be so great. It's going to be so great for the kids. It's going to be so great for us. And we got so excited. And then we announced that we were getting married. And then. And then, oh, my gosh, there was all kinds of, like, individual experiences and reactions to the wedding, us getting married, merging our lives together. And that's the topic that we want to talk about today. We want to, because we can, especially when we're the two people falling in love, we can underestimate the journey that everybody else is taking, coming behind us. So we thought it might be really, really relevant for us to share our personal story with you so that you can live vicariously through our story. And then we can give you some really great takeaways that will help you in your situation with blended families as well. This is a conversation that pops up a lot in my practice, my private practice here locally as well as online. And we don't have enough conversations about it, in my opinion, about how do we with this blended family.

And we can bring Brook's experience in as one of the children of the eight and the one, to be honest, that I would have expected the least amount of upset from. And we're going to hear from Brook's side, you know, why it was upsetting for her.

And so just to set this up so everybody's clear, this is Brooke is Tom's biological daughter. That's going to become very critical to the conversation. And she's my stepdaughter and so grateful and honored that she now works with us. But on the front side, nobody knew that that was going to be what was taking place. Right. We were just navigating it step by step as we go. So. So let's set this up.

Okay?

Tom and I fooled around and fell in love and did a long distance relationship for almost a year. We almost made it a year. And then we were real like this Isn't working right. Our conversation quickly became, when am I going to see you again? And there was so much life that was happening in our long distance relationship that we were unwilling to tolerate that anymore. It was like, we want to build a life together. We want to co create a life together. And I want you to know that's healthy in relationships. It's true. Relationships are either growing or they're dying. And if we don't take that roller coaster ride, you know, we'll keep pulling back, pulling back and pulling back, and it won't go anywhere. It won't take us anywhere. And because of this acute awareness, I finally made the bold decision together with Tom that I was going to move to California and we were going to merge our lives. But to be fair, on the front side, I came into this relationship because I've had a few rodeos myself in the love and relationship journey, to say the least. I expected you guys to laugh about that, that I swore off marriage, like marriage was not on the table for me. We don't need marriage. There's a lot of things that we can do. And my belief at the time, and still very much remains, that commitment is of the heart. It's an emotional commitment that we make. And then the marriage is more of just the legal aspects that we, we put on top of that. And there's some really wonderful definitive benefits about marriage in more ways than just the legal binding. But in my particular case, the reason that I got married was for more of the legal financial reasons coming into this, not interested in marriage. And I had told all the kids that. So nobody was expecting us to get married. To be fair, she.

Let me interrupt. You had told us a lot of times, no, we're never getting married. Never. And you, you even came up to me once and you said, trust me, Brooke, I'm never marrying your dad. Like, not in a bad way. Just that you guys were going to be together forever, but you weren't gonna get married.

Yeah. When I think that was more of me reassuring myself. Right. Like this is, this is what we're gonna do. Remember stays. Remember the commitment to yourself. Right. And I, I too had a process when coming together with Tom about getting over my own fears of commitment and marriage and those kinds of things because I'd been marri. Quite frankly, it didn't do much for us.

Yeah.

So as we come together. Absolutely correct. It was like, no, no, we're not gonna do that. Not necessary. And then after building a life together here, the kids were very supportive about us Coming together and building that life together. I think there was a moment where we said, okay, this is going to get serious. We're going to get married. Yeah. And I think that's the place where it goes dun, dun, dun. Oh, my gosh. Like, this isn't just a. A little one off. This is kind of getting serious. Right. And so we expected all the kids to be as excited about it as we were.

And just to add an important component. A lot of it was a good part of it was done for logistical taxation.

She said that.

Oh.

And.

But so when we chose to share the information, it was kind of towards. There wasn't a lot of time from the delivery of the information to time the one it was going to happen.

How about that?

Yeah.

Like, maybe. I don't know.

What was it, like, 10 to 14 days? Yeah.

So it was kind of a compressed experience, if you might say, 10 to.

14 days between engagement to marriage.

Well, we got to the end of the year, and it was like, do we really want to pay Uncle Sam $30,000 to stay single? Maybe we need to reconsider this. You like me. I really like you.

Right. You know, and some for some group health insurance under our business as well.

Yeah. Yeah. So. So we finally said, well, gosh, I'm not going anywhere. Are you? And let's get married. Let's. Let's do this. And it was a huge. It was a huge step for each of us. Certainly for me, I can speak personally. And out of the eight kids, we really expected Brooke to be the most excited. To be quite frank, I. I was. I think everybody was really excited or not really surprised by my.

By my reaction.

By your reaction. So, you know, the. The text messages as we're announcing this on our day. Oh, my gosh. That's so great. Congratulations, mom. This is great. Tom's a great guy, you know, and because I have six. I got six, you know. Really?

Yay.

This is gonna be awesome. Right?

Thumbs up. Not.

Yeah, like, do it. We'll be there. You know, tell us the day. And then. And then we get, oh, my gosh, this is devastating. And it's like, oh, a good time.

To bring Brooke's story.

Yeah.

Into the episode.

So my dad called me. I was at my ex husband's company Christmas party, and he was like, hey, Brooke. Brookie. That's what he calls me. I have really great news. And I was like, okay. I was like, getting a little nervous, like, what. What is he gonna tell me? I'm gonna propose to Stacy. And I just I remember I sat down on the stairway in the hallway and I just felt like my world was like, not crashing down. That's too dramatic. But I just felt like, oh, my God. I. I didn't expect to feel the emotions that I felt. I just felt really overwhelmed. And I was like, dad, are you sure this is what you want to do? Like, this is a big decision. She has a lot of kids. And I just could see my life changing greatly because me and my dad were and are very close. And I just felt like I was going to lose him. And I was an adult, but me and my dad, you know, stuck together a lot through a lot of hard times that we had when I was younger. We were like the two amigos, so we got each other through a lot of stuff. And so I was just really worried that I was gonna lose that. And I remember I was kind of mean to him and he was gonna propose to Stacy, I think the next day. And I treated him kind of like I would treat a boyfriend that I was mad at because he. They went through the whole proposal and I didn't want to know anything about it. And then, and then I know it happened because my cousin Jordan texted me. And then I was like, I texted him and I was like, weren't you gonna tell me that it was that it was that it happened? And he was like, well, I was kind of just giving you space. I didn't wanna, you know, I knew you weren't very happy about it, so. But I had never talked to my dad like that before. So it was just a whole new and different experience and set of feelings and I was overwhelmed. And I was at the company Christmas party and I went back into the room and I told Aaron, my ex husband, what happened. And then I drank a lot. I was just, I was, I was so much more emotional about it than I ever thought I would be. Because I loved Stacy. Like, we had a. At that time, we had a wonderful relationship and I was so happy that her and my dad were together. So it honestly shocked me too, that that was how I felt.

And I. I want to point out here that this is often the case in step families where there's all kinds of surprises that start popping up, right, and, and stories continue to emerge as time goes on and everybody has their own experience to kind of play out as this. It's literally a step by step transformation piece where the dynamics of our family and what we once knew is now going to expand and nobody knows what that's going to look like. You know, as much as Tom and I would like on the front side, decide how it was going to roll and how we were going to facilitate that and how great it was going to be and how many ways it was going to bless all the kids. Right. There are so many things as you're then living it out that are unexpected and surprises. And so, you know, as much as Tom and I felt like our family dynamic, our family values were the same, one of the things that was shocking and surprising to me, for sure, living this out personally, was how, as in spite of it, how close it was, and how much we felt like the value system of family was the same. Same. Every family has its own little nuances and idiosyncrasies about how it operates internally, and those are very unique to the group, you know, of parent and biological children. And so when this started to kind of play out, not just with you, Brooke, but other kids, you know, other of the eight kids, you just kind of go, holy cow. As much as we thought that this was going to be seamless, right. There's a whole dynamic here that I really don't understand. And I think that went both ways. Like, what? That's what you guys do.

And I also want to point out that at the time this happened, most of the all the children, except for one were adults. I mean, technically adults, you know, like above the age of 18. So you can still have all of this crazy dynamic just so people with younger children listening, like, just because your kids are adults does not mean you're out of the woods for this situation, you know?

Yeah, well, and there's a year. I'm glad you brought that up because then there's a lot of like, oh, we don't have any small kids at home, so we don't need to worry about this. It's going to be fine. It's going to be flawless. And when we dismiss it like that, then our older kids feel like they've just been pushed out and this new person has, like, well, like, we can't.

We're not allowed to have those feelings or like we're being a baby or like we're being immature, you know, but it doesn't matter how old you are, you still want to feel like you can have that close relationship with your.

Parent, especially when you have already been closed, close, and now you're feeling threatened that somehow that closeness is going to be sacrificed.

And when this was happening, all they were saying to me, which was good, but all they were saying to me was, that's not going to change. You know, I'm still going to be close to you. And Stacy was saying, I'm your dad is still going to be able to have this relationship with you. But I want you to tell the next part. It wasn't until Stacy. And I call Stacy mom, too, so I'll probably say that a lot, too. But mom, too had a conversation with her youngest son, Xavier, about a similar feeling he had where she finally understood my point of view a little bit more.

Yeah.

But it was also several years later.

Well, and this has been an ongoing dialogue that we're navigating, and I think that's one of the huge points that we want to make in having this conversation today. It's not like all of a sudden you just, you know, move in together and create this life and then go, okay, I'm your new mom, and I'm your new dad.

And.

And now we're gonna just be good with this. And when it doesn't play out like that, it's very easy for us as. Especially as the parents here trying to do all these wonderful things. And we're madly in love. Right. We're on the same page. It's disappointing all around when everybody doesn't have that same reaction. And it's very, very likely that you're going to take some of those things parcel.

Yeah.

Like, gosh, Brooke, you know, I mean.

We love each other.

Your dad and I would never do anything to hurt your dad. And why don't you believe in me?

Well, and we loved each other.

Yes. We had a great relationship. And I'm like, gosh, you know, what, what. What is it about me that you don't think would be a good fit for your dad? And I'm. I'm saying these things so that I can point out to our listeners that didn't have anything to do with that. Not a darn thing. But yet that's the human place where we typically go is we're going to take it personal and defend ourselves.

Yes.

And defend ourselves and try and justify. I love your dad, and I'm a good person. And the more that I played that out, the less likely there was a space created for Brooke and I to understand what was really going on for her. And let's be honest, unless we take that time, right. That pause, we're not going to understand what's going on for us. We're just going to feel the emotional overwhelm and the fear and the anxiety of, oh, something's changing. And it is. That's true. That's reality. But I don't understand why. And then we just start acting that out on each other and. And so families, step parents, if you have a younger child, perhaps that's in your family that is acting out, chances are it's not about you. It's about the changing dynamic and the inability to express that, the inability to know how to handle that. And you are going to be the focal point because you are the person seemingly that was inserted that created the change and the dynamic as they understood it well.

And I would say mostly the change between them and their, their biolog physical parent. And I also wanted to say on their wedding day, I still had these feelings also back up a little bit.

That was so brave of you to show up, though, still and cheer us on. Like, everything was okay in spite of that.

I was. But you guys knew that I was still feeling a little tense. But I showed up and I, you know, had a nice clothes on and I did my best, even though I was still feeling tense and like a little, not angry, but like a little bit angsty, you know. And I don't know if you remember this, but you, like, had a little line where we all hugged you both after you guys had the. After you guys got married and you said, brookie, one day we're going to laugh at this. And I was like, I don't know, man, but we do we laugh at it now because it's so absurd that that's how I felt because I couldn't feel more different now. But I also wanted to say, before they got married, they took me out to breakfast. We were just talking about this at our pre show meeting. They took me out to breakfast because we all needed to be, like, in a neutral place so I could discuss how I felt and they could reassure me. And we were eating our eggs and I was just sobbing at the breakfast restaurant saying, like, I don't know why I'm so emotional, but I am. And they were just like, the best thing that they did was just allow me to feel my feelings and express them and not. Not say I was bad or wrong. Even though I knew that they were both surprised and probably offended that I was reacting this way, they still let me express it and we were still able to talk about it safely without me feeling judged. Even though I knew that everyone in the situation was surprised at my reaction, it was. I still had permission to show up as I was feeling and for us to fully, like, discuss it because we were the, we were the only three that could understand it and get through it together.

So that's so important. And, you know, there has been other conversations with the other kids, each of them kind of navigating the dynamic in their own way. I remember Tom and I showing up to support my oldest son, not my oldest child, but my oldest son getting married. And, babe, do you remember him pulling you aside and saying, yeah, I know that you love my mom, but I don't really know you, so we're going to excuse you out of the wedding. And so, you know, those are big things. Like, we're where Tom's like, okay, you're a grown man. I can't really refute that. Right. So sometimes having older kids, it can be even more challenging because there's a lot of adult perspectives and a lot of initiation as far as holding what we would say are boundaries. And Tom handled that really, really well by just saying, you know what, Grant, I respect that. And this is your wedding. And hey, if you. You feel uncomfortable with me being here, I'll just take pictures from the top. And. And here's your mom. Right? Here's your mom. Go have a great time. And. And Tom reassuring me that, hey, go, you know, don't. I'm not going to cause you to feel pulled in the middle. And that's often what happens in blended families where the biological parent feels like they're very much in the middle of trying to please this relationship and honor this relationship with their biological children as well as this new relationship. Right. And let's just be honest, new love, new relationships is very enticing. Like, it is the best carpet ride on the whole planet. And so you want to make sure that you're doing your best to honor that and honor your children. And sometimes that's where the dysfunction and the inability and the know how and skill to navigate through it starts to crop up. Right. Because we do start to take things personal, and then we are choosing our person. We get jealous about it and wanting them to choose between, well, do you love me or do you love your son? You know, that was a real jerk thing to do. You know, babe, I don't know that I've ever asked you. I mean, like, like, what was that like for you when. When Grant said, you know what, you're. You seem like a really nice guy.

And all at the big. At his. At his big wedding, though dad was allowed.

Yes.

That was just very early ceremony.

Yeah.

I would say that this situation is one of the greatest places that you can do your very best to be impartial and objective. Because let's just be honest, your children, they didn't ask for any of this. So you have to step your, you know, empathy is really putting yourself in their place. It's not that like Brooke, it's not that she didn't like my new partner, but, you know, that's not the situation. The situation is things are going to be different now. Yeah.

Just.

Let's just run them. I always share with Stacy. It's a math. It's math. There's a lot more people to be shared amongst, you know, so even though you're going to do everything you can to guarantee and show up, behave like Brooke, still as important as she was before, there's more of me to be split.

Yeah.

Or, you know, me to be split amongst more.

Yeah.

So, you know, truly being objective and impartial without taking it personal. Tasty talks about we talk, you know, and not using things as leverage and all these things that we coach and teach and mentor all the time, I would say this is one of the most important places. So I think, gosh, if I was Grant, like, dude, I don't really know you, you know, and my mom's doesn't necessarily have the best, you know, track record.

I'm just.

Right.

I'm just being honest. You know, I wasn't so excited about some of these other gu. She assured me that were top shelf didn't go so well. So you know what? I don't have enough track record with you. And he's about the size of a sequoia tree. And so I. On top look.

Okay, good. We're.

We're good, dude. No problem. You know, Grant's a huge man.

Yeah. But now he just.

Just last week, I think we. We laughed about it just last week. Tom, I'm so sorry. Grant, you don't need to apologize.

Well, and he's made a point to you to say how much he respects you and how much he looks up to you and.

But I mean, he says, I can't believe I said.

Well, granted, you had no context of.

Me then, so that was totally okay.

Yeah, he's. He's gotten really emotional about that over the years going, gosh, Tom, I'm so sorry. I can't believe I did that. I. I have the most utmost love and respect for you now, but this is after 12 years. This is. This is playing out over time. And we share these things with you because we want you to see that this journey is a journey and there is no way that you're going to be able to Predict how this is going to unfold. All we can do is decide that we're gonna. We're gonna step out into the journey, and then we're willing to take the risk to navigate it together. And unfortunately, when it comes to blended families, it ends up pulling the couple apart. Right. Instead of, like, learning and growing together, not only as a couple, but as a family.

I would. I wanna ask you a question. If, say, there's a blended family and the. The one of the partners has children, the other partner does not have children, or maybe has older children that aren't in the house anymore, and the person who has children, their children don't really respect the new partner. And the mom of or dad of the children wants to, like, force them to respect the partner. I feel like that's a common situation. What do you. What do you recommend in that situation?

Please don't. Don't do that. Don't force the situation. There is. If there's space and there's time and there's permission, those relationships can be developed and forged over time. But if they're forced, if they're pushed, if they're coerced or manipulated in any way to build those relationships, it's going to create a dynamic where everybody is going to. Those kids are going to pull back, and the more you push, the more they're going to pull back and not want to have anything to do with the situation or the person. And so we don't realize, actually we're setting it up so that we're creating exactly what it is we don't want because there is no safety and permission in that. And it's okay for them to not want to be right in a. In a deep, connected relationship with you. I always say, remember what got you in this place? You. You fooled around and you fell in love with a person. Okay? The kids are coming along for the ride and everybody knows it, but nobody wants to talk about it. The kids aren't here because they like this new person you love and adore. They're there because they love their biological parent. And that's the only reason why they're willing to come along, ride. And then we're all navigating something. We have no idea what's coming at us, right? And we have no idea, like. Like all of us, like you, like, just illustrated in your story of the emotion and the reactions that we're gonna have as this transformation is happening. And it totally is a transformation.

And I would just assert it's not that we're saying that you know, there's no rules that apply. I think what Stacy and I have done a very good job at through this all this 12 years, is to demonstrate, here's what we stand for, and it's the three things we talk about all the time. Everyone's going to be acknowledged, everyone's going to be appreciated, and everyone's going to be heard.

And I don't want to, like, name names or anything, but there was a fight that happened. Not. Not really a physical fight, but there was a verbal fallout that happened between his child and her child, and that was hard, but we were able to navigate through it. But it took time, and it took you guys coaching both of them through it and allowing them to not want to see each other and not judging them for that. And.

And I think by standing on those tenets that I just shared.

Yeah.

You know, again, that's the only thing you can. You know, it's what Stacy does in. In good mediation. You establish the ground rules. That's what you stand for. And then you have to let the situation. You have to release yourself from the timetable that you think it's going to go. Yeah, that was a very difficult situation. A very difficult situation.

But now they can both be in the same room and. And talk to each other and have a good time.

Yeah, those things have to work out. But you stand for. Here's how we're going to navigate. And everyone has a place at the table when they feel like they want to come. But other than that.

Yes, but you don't say, oh, no, you have to come. This is a family event. You can't. You can't force it.

And it's hard. It's hard.

Well, and because we have so many humans involved and everybody has their own unique perspective and personality and needs and desires and. And not only desires, but fears and insecurities. Right. Anxieties. There has to be space for that. And if we don't allow space for that, then we're going to shut somebody down, and everybody is going to build relationships with the perspective of step parent at their own rate. Yeah. Okay. You and I built a relationship.

Right.

Really fast. Really fast. Right. My brother and your brother and I. That's okay. It's been a work in progress over the last 12 years, and now you.

Have a good, jokey, funny relationship, but.

It'Ll probably never be the relationship like you and I. And that is okay. And I really want to say that again. That is okay. I'm going to build the relationship that's available to me. With this unique human instead of just think, well gosh, I'm your stepmom and.

Like hug him and like kiss him all over and like when he doesn't. That's not his, that's not how he prefers to be an inner. Inner. Be. To interact with people is what I was trying to say. So.

And particularly me, maybe people that he feels closer with.

Well, no, just because that's how you like to.

That's how I like to interact.

That's how you show love and how you like show your people that you love them. And that's not his preferred way. So you guys have learned what, what is okay and what isn't okay.

Yeah. And I'm sure that over time that will continue to evolve. Right. It's not a one and done. We don't arrive anywhere. So it's important to understand that piece too. And, and like, you know, we've, we've mentioned with my oldest son, you know, and his relationship evolving with Tom over time and our relationship with you evolving over time and my, my kids relationship with Tom evolving over time and each of them are very fl. Very dynamic and individual and we have to make room and space for that, you know. And babe, on that note, I've always appreciated your come from especially with, with my youngest son Xavier. He was right. The, the 10 year old that was part of the mix and considered the one person that was, you know, going to be part of the family. And I, I always appreciated you saying, you know, Xavier's got a good father, he doesn't need another one. But hey, if I can be a, an adult that's a good influence in his life, then, then that's all I want to do. That's all I want to be. I don't need to get into that dynamic where I'm trying to quiet my own fears and insecurities of being good enough by forcing myself into this father role of this young child. And I think that now that's, that's a big goal for us as human beings and as parents because we all have fears and insecurities about who we are. We all have things that we're trying to create do overs with in many, many ways. Right. So we can uncannily recreate different circumstances that bring up very similar emotions in us. And parenting is one of those. If we feel like perhaps we've really made some messes with our now raised children, we step into to, you know, step parenting and go, okay, this is my opportunity, man. I'm gonna knock it out of the park, they're gonna love me. This is gonna be great. Right? I'm gonna, I'm gonna be the parent that I wish I could have been for my older kids that are now out of the house. And just know that is a setup because you're not honoring. It's a beautiful place to come from. I love to say it's a wonderful sweetheart message, but the execution of that is going to create a lot of personalization and anxiety and frustration on your part because you're not honoring the other side of the equation, which is this child who's coming into this with a lot of perspectives and feelings that you're not going to understand and know what to do with.

And it's a child. Like, we can't, we can't expect children, young children, to be recipients of these really, like, mature concepts that we're thinking, you know, they're kids, they, they're. They just don't have that ability. Some do, but a lot of them are just going to disappoint you. Not because they're trying to, but just because they're children.

Yeah. And they're. And they're dealing with their own feelings they don't even have words with yet. And I'm just going back to your story and our experience. Right. You were an adult. Yep. And we had a difficulty time grappling with some of these things as the transformation was taking place. And if we can't, with our experience as adults, make sense of these things, so then we can only imagine what a child's going through when their world is transforming and changing. And, and some of the acting out that happens is just that. Right. It has nothing to do with the older people or adults or parents in the family. It's just. I don't know what to do with that.

Yeah. And I would just really encourage our listeners for, you know, and I've always never agreed with this position as a parent. We don't even our biological children, we don't own them, you know, or even.

Children you've adopted, you know, any, any children in, like, your immediate family. Yeah.

I mean, so if you're in this situation, you've got this partner, husband, wife, significant other that you love, and you're blending families and you come in and, and you're going to take this ownership approach with your partner's children. I mean, in my humble opinion, that's going to go awful. What we can do is show up as your best version of yourself, demonstrate your love for their mother, their father, and then integrate and give this place a very tremendous amount of fluidity and change with grace and understanding and you know, the tenants that we. And it's going to be a very, very malleable, movable, fast moving situation for probably a number of years. Let's just be honest. It has been for us for 12.

And I also want to say, I don't. How old was I when you guys first started?

So 12 years ago from that.

How old are you now?

36.

So 20 minus 12 is 24.

24.

I don't have my calculator, so I.

Was 24 when they first started coming together. And I remember you saying, I'm not trying to be your mom. You know, I'm never going to be your mom. You have a moment. But I would like to give listeners hope that if that is, you know, if that's the place you're coming from now because you're hearing it on this podcast and you're saying, okay, that's a great place to start. Now I do consider her a mom figure, you know, like I don't ever want to tell my mom she's not my mom, of course she's my mom, but I consider her a bonus mom. So just because that's how you have to start, that's a very non threatening place as the non biological child. That's a great place thing to say. But that doesn't mean that that can't change because I call her mom too and I send her Mother's Day text. So that doesn't. Just because you say that at the, at the outset, at the beginning. Yeah. It doesn't mean that that can't develop.

So yeah, if we allow those relationships to develop over time and, and if we'll wait for it, if we'll be patient, which is the hard part, right. There will be a moment as this relationship takes on connection and safety and conversation and, and con. A consistent showing up of, and demonstration that I care about you and you're important to me and I value you. There was a precious moment where I remember sitting at the White Rabbit in Folsom where you, you reached across the table and you grabbed my head and she said, she said to me, I want to call you mom. Is that okay? And I went, yes, yes. Inside I was like, yeah, okay, we did it. Yeah, that was a, a very strong celebratory moment for both of us realizing we had just, you know, traveled a long way together.

And there may be, and there isn't ours, there, there may be lots of other of the combined children that don't choose.

Yeah.

And that's okay. You know, that's okay.

Absolutely. Are.

Yeah. Like my brother does not. Right.

And I have. I feel very close to a lot of Stacy's children, but they don't choose to call me dad.

But it.

So it's a very individualized journey. It's, you know, it's is. This is an individualized. As there as the numbers are, and there's no way I've ever seen it play out. Card launch the same. It just doesn't happen. So just take that approach.

Well, in. In. My dad had a stepdad and only one of the three children. My dad has three brothers, only one called him dad. So same thing.

Yeah. So, you know, I just can't overemphasize how you have to take this as a very individualized, an honoring of that human being as a human being. And again, I'm not being cliche. That's the finest way that we can bring the neutrality into a very, very highly charged situation. Let's just be honest.

I want to ask another question about one of the things we were going to talk about. Okay. Say that there's two partners. They both have children, and one of the partner's children wants to, like, have a special celebration or time and doesn't want the step parent to come because they just want it to be the family of origin. How do you.

Another great question.

How do you approach that? And how do you stop the step parent from feeling offended? And, you know, all of that. Yeah.

How do you navigate that dynamic?

And is that okay? That's another thing.

Well, if it. It's much easier for us to understand how to navigate this if we understand what's at play here. A parent and a child relationship, biologically is one of the most profound relationships that we know of in the human experience. That is a connection that begins at conception and is a huge part of not only the biology, but the behavior and the emotional aspects of each person's life. The reason why parent child relationships are so challenging is because they have the capacity to teach us so much about ourselves. They show us all the places where we're weak and we're insecure and we feel insignificant. And then we take it out on the child, and then the child acts it back out to us, and then we go, holy cow, you can't do that. I do that. That really makes me uncomfortable. You don't ever get to do that. Right. There's this ongoing dynamic between every parent and child, and they become very, very challenging. So if we Understand that. Then it starts to help us understand more of how critically important that those sacred contracts between those two individuals be honored. As much as I, as a step parent, feel like I have something to contribute to that, I'm really overstepping a lot of biological and, shall we say, universal principles by thinking that I have anything that I can do to trump the sacred contract. And here's how I want to play this out. Let's say in the dynamic between Tom and I, that I convinced tomorrow that he should push Brookie away and that she was crazy and that she just needs to pull it together and get to a place where she can accept me as her mom. Because that's the way it is, and that's the way it's going to go down. Right, honey? Because you love me, right? You're going to love me. And Tom buys into that idea and starts sacrificing the sacred contract between these two. It's a setup for disaster.

And I feel like that happens a lot.

A ton. A ton. So now he's feeling guilty and regret and remorse. And so it's going to affect the way he shows up in a relationship with me, and it's going to affect the way you show up in the relationship with him and me. And now we're in a race to what I call the race to the bottom, the easier way. Even though it might bring a big gulp for us as step parents, because we want to be included. We want the reassurance that we're loved to and that we can be a part of this. It's really helpful to take that big gulp and understand your place. Focus on the person you fell in love with, support them, help them see things that you're going to see from an objective perspective. But they get to make the call. Why? Because they're on the hook for the sacred contract. And how this goes or doesn't go is going to greatly affect them, and then it's going to greatly affect the way they show up with me, you know, so. So the whole dynamic is based on if he does what he feels good about for his kids, then we all win. Even though it might be a hard pill for me to swallow. Right. If he violates that, everybody's going to pay, including me as the stepmom. So then it becomes really easy to navigate that. Right? Yes. Please go. It's hard for me to do this, but this is important. And by the way, step parents encourage it. Just get to a place where you can encourage that biological child and that biological parent to Go and spend some time in that original connection where it all began for them in the first place. That's okay. And in fact, if you'll do that, it's going to make for a much easier ride for everyone and you alone. It's better for you to deal with your own fears and insecurities. Right. About finding your place and that on your own than upset the entire apple cart where you're going to lose anyway.

Do you ever, in your, in your work with clients, do you ever find a step parent situation where they are jealous of the parent and the parent interacting with their ex in parenting their child together?

Yes.

And what do you say to them about that?

Absolutely. The more we feel threatened about the ex, I want you to understand that's kind of starting to fall into the ways of jealousy. And jealousy always comes from a place of feeling insecure and that you're not enough. And those are feelings that you're grappling with inside of yourself. And if we're not careful and we don't know how to navigate through those feelings. Right. Which are going to take some effort, that emotional push up that we love to talk about in our work, you're going to take it out on the person you love as well as the ex and then it turns into a very big drama cycle. Yeah. In the family dynamic, it's like you can't push the ex away enough to find your place in the relationship. And the more you try, the less space there is for you. Yeah. And that becomes a place where we all again begin to break down there again.

And I would just add the same type of, you know, this is what we're going to, you know, stand, do our best to create the foundation amongst, you know, the, the current part, the current marriage, the current partnership and the act meaning, again, just like we said, everyone, we're going to navigate this. Everyone's going to be appreciated, acknowledged and heard. You know, you're gonna, that's the only way you can navigate these difficulties with some neutrality versus taking sides. Right.

I mean, is it ever okay for the original family of origin, like the, the ex, the, the partner and that, and their children, Is it okay for them to like get together and have, you know. Because I feel like that would be an extra threatening situation for the new partner. Is that okay?

Well, you know, there's, there's, there's unique nuances to all of these. So to kind of create a blanket statement is really, really challenging because we would be saying that we as human beings don't manipulate. Yeah. And then we've got an ex spouse that's trying to work their way back in and kind of like gets the new, you know, true person all spun.

Well, let's say it's not that. It's just like they're going. Maybe they're going to their child's high school graduation or something. Yeah.

Well, I. What I just described is probably less likely.

Yeah.

If there has been a divorce and we've stepped away and we've risked creating a new norm. Yeah. And then. Then what I'm about to say applies more times than not. Yeah. Unless somebody is incomplete and not knowing how to move forward, and so they're continuing to reach back to try and get the old situation or scenario back. I. Two things. I. You can't do that. The. It's kind of like the toothpaste is out of the tube. Transformation has already happened by nature of, you know, letting this relationship go and then they move on and they marry somebody else. Transformation, again, is unfair unfolding. And for us to buy into the illusion that we're going to go back and recreate it like it once was is a fallacy. It's in a. It's a cognitive bias that we have as humans. And I understand. We go there when we get scared.

Yeah.

Right.

And you romanticize the past.

Oh, absolutely. And then there was no problems. And I don't understand why you left.

But I would just say, you know what, Brook, what you asked. I mean, not to. To interrupt you as we start.

I was gonna say, wow, you know, I was gonna really bring it home big and strong. Right.

I would just say there would be, again, if you. If everybody's intentions are, you know, for the right reasons, you know, I would say.

Which off times, they're not.

No, but let's say they are.

Sometimes they are, though. And I just feel like that could be a very threatening situation for the new partner.

It would take a lot of push ups, probably ahead of time, emotional push ups, so everybody could navigate this situation because there has been so much transformation after this.

But also, I just. I know we are approaching the end, but I. I also want. Because I bet some people would think that's not okay, you know, that's not okay for them to go be a family together. You know, so we'll let.

Well, and then number two, before you.

Were so rudely interrupted.

Yes. There can be places where this needs to be navigated, you know, with. With step by step and maybe some support and mentorship if it's gotten a little wild and crazy. Out there. Right. Because everybody's reeling in their fears and insecurities. Yeah. But number two is, remember that love is an expansive quality. We have the ability as a human being to love many, many people deeply. If that was not the case. Right. Because we. This comes up a lot with exes. In particular, that if you love your ex, you can't love me. And I'm going to say that's B.S. that is so not true. I can deeply love my ex and know that the dynamic between us is not healthy. It's dysfunctional.

Right.

Whatever that combo is, it's taken us to a certain point where we've created a beautiful life. Right. Anna. And beautiful children. And that's good. And that will always be good, and that will remain good for the rest of your lives. And now everybody needs to go on and transform into something that is next and possible. And we can do that by cheering each other on through the place of love. But I can love you and not be romantic with you as husband and wife in that relationship. Relationship. And it's important for us to realize that that expansive quality is what we'll see is through. Right. And just vet it out. Right. If I didn't have the ability to love many, many people deeply, I wouldn't love my children. All right? And I remember having my second child, wondering if I could love it as much as the first. And then there was six more that happened. Right. And I just went, oh, okay, yeah, I have the capacity to love them all. And now with grandkids, I love them. And. And I've had many people, people who have been lovers in my life that I love deeply. And I'm so grateful for their presence in my life because each and every one of them helped me become a better person and understand aspects about me and life and relationships that I wouldn't be able to learn any other way. And so I guess what I'm saying is more of those are fears and insecurities inside of ourselves that we're not enough to be loved and accepted. And when I can find that place, you know, and steady myself in that moment than allowing them to have that dynamic where, yes, you can go and spend some time with your children and cheer them on for that graduation and. And cheer them on and just maybe have moments of solving some of the problems and the dynamics that the two biological parents understand better than me. Yeah. And my hope would be that they would feel open enough to share it with me, that I might lend some objective perspective. But that's only going to happen If I allow the space to be invited into. Into the circle instead of pushing my way in there. I know that's a lot. We could probably have a whole another session podcast on that dynamic as well. But let's wrap this up by just each of us kind of pointing out what we feel like we want the biggest takeaways from our own unique perspectives to be for our listeners, being that we have such an opportunity to represent three different perspectives. Right. A mother, a father, and a. And a stepchild.

Brooke, you first.

I just want to say as, as a child in this situation, I appreciate that all the questions that I just asked my parents, my biological mom, dad, and stepmom, all allowed to happen. So they, they said yes to all of those situations, even though they had to swallow their fears and insecurities. And they allowed us to have my mom overthink for several Thanksgivings and Christmases. And having them all have a cordial relationship was life changing for me. And so if you guys are going. If listeners are going through a similar situation, I just want to remind you that doing that inner work and, and making those hard situations possible for your kids will do them so much good. It's priceless.

Now, that is absolutely well said. I think we can just wrap it up right there.

Right? Thank you.

I mean, well, it just shows you. I mean, so, I mean, again, this. Not rehearsed. So, again, those are going to be challenging. Has all of this made me be a better version of myself? Absolutely. Has it been hard? Absolutely. Do I continue to step in and invest? Absolutely.

Yeah. You know, so I think the part that I want to point out is that again, I can, I can see things and I can, I can observe things, you know, and, and this goes both ways on Tom's family and children and perspective and vice versa. But at the end of the day, you know, babe, we've done a really good job. Fist bump of just saying you get to make the call because you're the one that's in this sacred relationship with this biological children. And however you choose to navigate this, here's a few of my ideas to consider. But at the end of the day, you get to choose because you're going to be the one that. That reaps the benefit or the challenge.

Yes, I would say that's something that's a great way to end that. We have done a very good job. And we, we, we agreed to this when we stepped into this because I saw, saw a big math, you know, a lot of numbers here. Look, I'm, you know, I'm not, I'm not the biological. So we're going to support each other in these difficult and yeah. And it's always open for. Here's how I see this. But at the end of the day, it's your choice and I will support you in that choice.

And are there choices that were made that we didn't necessarily agree with? Absolutely. But if I don't support him, then I'm breaking our relationship down. So I have to let that go. It's your choice and I get to support you in that choice even though it may not have been my choice.

Yeah.

And sometimes that's hard. That's where that big emotion.

And we're just going to step right into our follow the fun. We're not going to take a last. Yeah, I think that's probably fun here as we wind this up because that was a juicy great questions, Brooke. And I didn't realize that those were. I said, man, they sound kind of familiar, but there you go.

So our fall of the fun moment this week is taking time for cuddling. Cuddling is an incredible thing that we get to do as human beings and quite frankly, we don't get enough of it.

There's a lot of science in there, isn't there?

Oh, absolutely. It nurtures our bodies and our souls and is profoundly needed by each and every one of us. Regardless of how you feel about cuddling, regardless of what your knee jerk reaction is. Ironically, the more the knee jerk reaction happens, the more. The more you need it. Yeah, yeah. The more that you're upset or have some emotions about not getting what it is you needed. And so now you've just made up a story that you don't. Yeah. And that's very unhuman and unbiological of us. We are truly love starved human beings, most of us. And so I want to encourage you to take some time to cuddle up, to be touched, to be held, to have your wonderful skin, the wrapper that holds your body together, caressed and stroked and tickled and kissed and even scratched attached. This will cause you to feel nurtured, loved, cherished, appreciated, protected and safe. And it doesn't cost you any money. It simply takes a bit of time to prioritize it. So come on, pull someone you care about really close this week and cuddle up. And it's going to remind you both that there's more to life than work and bills as well as refuel you to tackle and take on tomorrow. So don't dismiss this. Don't dismiss what I'm saying it's very important.

A lot of wonderful hugging and touching this weekend. I can tell you that right now.

So excited. It's my favorite part.

What a shock.

I think you should give Dustin a big kiss on the lip.

Yeah, I'm kind of coming in hot. Hey, if you're not already in our fun list, I encourage you get on the fun list. We give giveaways as well as send you out emails with super tips like these. And as always, if your first time listening to our podcast, I just want you to know we always have a song. This song always makes me cry, as many do. I'm going to encourage you to check it out on our Spotify playlist. It's Alicia Keys song about blended family. We do it for you because we love you. And it's a beautiful song where she herself has some beautiful video that goes along with the song about how beautiful it can be when we do honor and love each other for who we are and where we are in this unique experience that blended families. Absolutely. How the love expands. So I encourage you to listen to it and check it out. It probably make you feel warm and fuzzy and maybe even like cuddling. So you know it's going to be a double bonus this week.

You can listen to the song Cuddle.

And then listen to the episode Cuddle while you're listening.

Oh, there you go.

Incredible again. You can check out this week's song on our Spotify website playlist. You can access all of that on our website and gosh, if you need some help navigating some of these things, reach out to us. This is what we do. This is what we've dedicated our lives to. And we get to do it as a three song.

I was gonna say it's a whole family, too. I mean, you get this is. This is who you know. Stacy's on the front. Brooke and I are more on the back side. But it's a true family that comes around and surrounds you because you know what? We care and this is important and there's a lot of people out there hurting.

Yep. Thanks so much for being here with us on the Love Shack today. So great to have you here and we look forward to seeing you guys next time. Have a beautiful weekend.

Thanks for joining us today in the Love Shack. We hope you came away with something that made your toes tingle. To learn more about everything you heard on today's show, go to stacybartley.com podcast Love the Show. Help us spread the love by sharing the show with others. Okay. Everybody, time to go. We gotta close the doors to the Love Shack for this week. You don't have to go home, but you can't stay here. Come back next week, though, and join us for another edition of Love Shack live with Tom and Stacy Bartley.