https://www.listennotes.com/e/bb52c5695ce346e0a1d683facc3c10cc

Have you ever poured your heart out to someone only to have them jump straight into problem solving? Or felt like you were sharing something vulnerable and the other person just changes the subject on you? Kind of cut you off? Or maybe you've been that person trying so hard to fix, cheer up, or smooth over the discomfort that you unintentionally shut the other person down. Here's the truth. Connection doesn't just happen through fixing. And it doesn't come from pleasing people or making everything okay. It happens when we reveal ourselves and when someone stays present enough to truly witness us. I'm Stacy Bartley, a relationship mentor and an emotional skill builder. And this is Love Shack Live, a podcast for people at the relationship crossroads who are tired of trying harder and ready to try something different. I'm here with my partner and lover, Tom, and our beautiful daughter, Brooke. Together we have helped thousands of people navigate the hard steps stuff so that they can build something real, respectful and lasting. And in today's episode, we're breaking down the foundations of human connection, emotional safety, mutual vulnerability, and the power of being witnessed. We'll also give you some small, doable ways to practice real connection in your own life. But before we dive in, I want you to know that we're about to share with you comes straight from the heart of our Better Love Club, our live in real life classroom, where each week we don't just talk about relationship skills, we practice them together. This isn't theory. It's what's working and what's being courageously lived by real people inside of our community who are showing up to do the work of creating better love in their lives. Right now, for the entire month of June, we've been exploring one of the most important human experiences that we all crave. Connection. Deep intimacy, which is just deep connection with another. After all, intimacy is what it is we're all after. It's the sweet spot in our relationships. And we've been asking a really beautiful question. What does it really take to build connection that lasts? So today I'm sharing some of the most powerful insights and lessons that have emerged from those conversations with our community inside of the Better Love Club.

Hey, thank you for coming. Welcome to the Love Shack.

So let's begin with what really creates connection. Well, maybe we should start with what connection is not, because that might surprise you. Connection is not performance. It's not fixing, it's not pleasing. It's not even being in agreement with another or acting like we're the same, feel the same, do the same. You know, the sameness that sometimes we can get lost in. The thing is, when we're playing that game of connection. Let me tell you a story about how that commonly plays out, because I bet you're going to relate. I want to introduce you to Maya and Alex. They did love each other. At least they thought that they did. Like most couples, they remember the deep connection that they felt before moving in and sharing their daily lives. They were doing all the right things and checking all of the great boxes that we learn and are taught to check when we want to create a great relationship. Maya made sure dinner was on the table every night. The house was spotless, and the kids were signed up for every enriching activity that she could possibly find. She believed that if she just performed well enough, if she could keep everyone happy and everything running smoothly, Alex would know he was loved. And connection would be a naturally given experience. Alex, on the other hand, had become the king of fixing. And every time Maya opened up about feeling tired or overwhelmed, he jumped straight into solutions. And he would say things like, you know, maybe you should just try and get up earlier. Or have you ever tried making a list that you can check off to keep you on track? Sounds like you're kind of got so much going on. It's like a traveling highway and there's so many things buzzing in your head. Maybe you're just too distracted, or maybe you just need to manage your time overall better. Which I go back to the list then. And so she stopped opening up. Because all she would take away from this well intended, albeit conversation, is I'm not performing good enough. Which then led to I am not enough for you. Which then led to resentment after sitting with it, of, shit, what is it I'm gonna have to do in order to be seen and appreciated by you? And here's the truth. Alex felt really unseen, too. He felt all he did was day in, day out. He did for Maya and the family. But when he needed something, it was often dismissed. Feeling like Maya was always too busy doing other things. The children taking care of all the things that she was trying to accomplish, to be for him when he needed it most. He seemed to always feel like he was falling to the bottom of her list, Ironically, that he was so insistent that she make. I suppose because he's hoping that maybe if she can make a list, then he might be somewhere on it. But his resentment was, I'm not valued by you, and I'm beginning to feel like I'm taken advantage of. When do I count? The weekends looked A lot like this. They default to the same tasks, have the same conversations followed by the same restaurant, return home and watch the same Netflix shows, and then do a few scrolls on social media. If Alex suggested sushi, Maya agreed. Even when she really doesn't like sushi, she wanted to connect. If Maya wanted to maybe take a weekend trip, Alex said yes, even though he felt stressed about work and wondered how they were going to pay for it, but said nothing about it. Both of them were saying yes, but meaning no instead. They thought avoiding conflict meant that they were doing well, even though they had not had sex in more than a month. They thought keeping things easy and agreeable meant that they were connecting. But the reality is, inside, both felt very lonely, very unseen, and very unheard as a result of what was playing out in their lives in spite of their best efforts. So I am going to just pause here and allow my two co hosts to chime in. Have you ever experienced anything like this before in your life?

I feel like it's a pretty good description of very normal relationship problems that a lot of people have. But the thing is, we don't really talk about our relationship problems. So when we're going through things like this, we think that we suck at relationships or we're with the wrong person and we look around and we think everyone, everyone else is so happy with their partner and we don't realize that they're experiencing the exact same things in their houses, too. Another thing that struck me is when you were saying the woman was telling her husband that she was struggling and his reaction was to give her suggestions or solutions. That's just such a funny, common male, female dynamic where the woman is just wanting validation and. And to know that you heard me, and the husband is thinking, I gotta give her solutions because we gotta fix the problem. When the husband is really just trying to help. He's not. He's not trying to make you feel bad by giving you solutions. He's like, how can I help you? But you're taking it. I do the same thing. I take it totally as judgment and criticism when really my partner's just trying to help me.

Yeah, well, and the irony on the flip side, where she's so busy in the performance act of making sure that the house is clean, the kids are taken care of, and everything is kind of like smooth sailing and probably juggling a job herself that now her partner feels like he can't even get on the list because he's, you know, assuming she's got this and doesn't need Her. And so he's trying to, like, do all of his things and. And his part, and yet feels like he's consistently disappointed because he doesn't feel like he's anywhere on the list. Everything.

But also, she thinks. She believes that if she let one of those balls, you know, drop from the air, that he would see her as a failure, when really he would prefer if she put some of the balls down so that they could have more time together, you know?

Yeah. I think it's a classic case of. In all of our journeys, we oftentimes confuse the doing part of our lives, thinking that's contributing to the relationship. And yes, of course, it has its place, but, I mean, I think this might have been Wayne Dyer, first I ever heard him say. Remember, we're human beings. We're not human doings. And oftentimes in relationship, it's the most simple acts of contribution to each other, not the doing part of it, that really can move the needle. And it only may be cliche because it's true, depending what season of life you're in, when you have children and they need a lot of. I mean, there's a massive amount of moving parts. So believe me, we are not discounting that. But I think many of us, most of us get caught up. No, come on, man. I'm earning the ca. Like, what else can I do? I mean, the capacity is maxed, so we need to be very strategic how we can have these small but significant, simple contributions to each other that really is significant.

The real challenge in these situations is not. It's very easy to notice these things. Like, we all noticed the things in the. In the story that Mom 2 presented us. The real challenge is being able to talk with your significant other and say, hey, I'm noticing these things. I don't feel like we're having a lot of connection, because that, again, can feel like, well, you're always correcting me. You're always pointing out what I'm doing wrong. You're always, you know, the conversation you're trying to have about the thing you want to fix can also turn into a landmine in and of itself.

Usually does. That's why it's never brought up correct, you know, so it just continues.

So that's what connection is, not connection, as you can see, which I used to believe. Right. Used to be some byproduct of performing, of pleasing, of being in agreement, of making it easier for my partner. Like, you know, contribution and these doing aspects and tasks. And it's not. That is not what creates the deep sense of connection and intimacy that we all long for? And for many of us, when we see this and start to see through this, it's a shocker. Like, well, if it's not that, then what is it like? Because we will chase that tale and chase it and chase it through doing more, performing more pleasing, more agreement. We'll exhaust ourselves there. In fact, this is often how we run out of emotional gas and we think, you know, just like Maya, my gosh, what more do you want from me? In order for me to feel connected and loved and seen and wanted and cherished and all the things that we use as the verb descriptors, yet we consistently feel more lonely and unheard and unseen, validated, and we get ourselves behind that. Catch 22, right? It's perplexing. It's absolutely perplexing. I've lived it. We probably all lived it. And a lot of our listeners, you listen, are probably living it now because it is such a shock to go, oh, it's none of those things. It's not performance, it's not agreement. It's not pleasing. It's. It's really not even about contribution. It's not about any of those things. Well, then what is it, Stace? Connection happens when we feel seen and heard and known as our real self. Like, we get a safe place in order to share our honest, true thoughts and feelings. Even if you don't agree with me. In the story of Maya and Alex, one quiet evening, sitting three feet apart but feeling miles away from Alex, and she looked up from her phone and finally whispered to him, do you ever feel like we're just going through the motions? And Alex nodded. Yep, I sure do. And for the first time in a long time, they both stopped trying to fix, please, and perform, and they just sat with the truth of what was. And that, ironically, was the most connected that they had felt in months. That is a great demonstration of what true, deep connection really is. It's like being able to tell the truth about what is. And that's why when we want to open up the conversation about deeper connection, it's going to need to begin with being honest about what is. Which, as Brooke highlighted, can often be the thing that is most challenging of all in this perplexing, ironic state of affairs. When I share something true about myself and you don't try to fix it or flee from the scene, we connect. That's where it happens. It's not about the doing, it's about being able to do that. And so the loop of connection is this. And if you're in a place you can take notes, I want you to write this down and I want you to reflect on it, and I want you to sit with it. Okay. I reveal. You witness. You reveal. I witness. That equals we both feel safe and intimacy grows. I'm going to say it again. I reveal. You witness. You reveal. I witness. And we both feel safer and intimacy grows. It sounds so simple. Okay, that's it. The podcast is over. Now go do it. Just kidding. If it were that simple, right? That is the equation for connection. But why is it so damn hard? Like, why does it challenge us so much? So as human beings? Well, let's break it down even further. What is reveal. Reveal is vulnerability. And to witness. Well, in order to do that, we're going to need to be able to do what I call an emotional push up to stay out of personalizations and defensiveness. Otherwise, we're going to have not a prayer chance in hell of witnessing anybody. If I can't sit and be patient with what I'm hearing, which is hard, it's going to take everything you got. Sometimes when you hear some really difficult things. So let's break these two things down, because we're talking about two of the most challenging and courageous things we do in the human experience. That's why they seem to be so challenging to us. Vulnerability, it's kind of like standing in the center of the stage, the spotlight is on, no costume to hide behind. It's brave, and it's often very messy. It's the act of letting yourself be seen emotionally, mentally, and spiritually. It's also your most empowered place as a human being. And why I say that is because you're admitting the truth of what is for yourself. It's like saying, I, as Stacy, say, my hair is red, my eyes are green. That is irrefutable. It is what it is. I accept it because there's nothing I can do otherwise. And I can be vulnerable about my thoughts. This is the way I think. This is the way I feel. This is what I'm experiencing. This is where I go. This is what I struggle with. This is what I'm afraid of. And all of those are simple examples, although courageous, of being vulnerable. And when I come from that place, it's irrefutable. I can find a foundational place for me to stand on. And that's why it's my most empowered place as a human being. It's this place where, I'm sorry that you don't agree or you don't experience that or you don't see it that way, but this is where I am coming from, and this is how I see it. And there's a safe place to be witnessed in that. So vulnerability is going to challenge us. It's going to make our armpits sweaty. It's going to make our stomachs flip. That's all a natural, normal part of vulnerability. As I reveal more of myself to you, and as it changes, I do it again and I do it some more. Anything you guys want to add about vulnerability?

Well, and I think just as you shared at the end there, the additional challenge is whatever you're choosing to reveal, guess what, It's a good chance it may be different, like the next day or the next week or the next month. So it's a constant process. I think many of these places that are most intimidating for us, we think that's the one and done. We check that box, we're good. I mean, but to be.

I was vulnerable last night. What do you want from me?

But I don't mean to be the bearer of bad news, but this is a long play here. So this constant exchange between you and your special someone, it's never going. Let's hope it doesn't stop, because we're always changing. I mean, that's a universal principle. I mean, that's scientific. I mean, even the cells in our body change, you know, completely within a certain period of time. So how would we expect otherwise? The set it and forget it part of relationships is deeply embedded into the story that we've all kind of bought into. And that is really flawed.

Also, I think we need to reframe majorly our view of vulnerability. It's been framed as a weakness for so long, and it's not. Mom 2 always says it's a superpower. And I think it's important that even though it can be hard to be vulnerable, it's hard your thoughts and feelings with the person that you love, especially when it's about your relationship. But how are they going to know how you feel without doing it? I think the real sad thing that happens in relationships is that we think that we can't share our thoughts and feelings, or we're too scared to, or we just believe that our partner should know how we feel. And then we lose the experience of being vulnerable with them. And it's like a muscle. So when you stop using it, it becomes uncomfortable. And then you become less and less likely to be vulnerable with them, and then all connection goes out the window. It's hard to do it, but it becomes easier each time you activate that muscle again.

And certainly being somewhat traditional in the sense of traditional male energy and upbringing, is it. That's usually. It's been taught as a sign of weakness, which is really sad because I love to say the most loving person in the room always comes from a position of strength. We don't have a lot of those male role models of what I just shared, but I've been blessed to be around them. So depending on how whoever, you know, I'm sure they did the best they could. Whoever is most influential on you. But it isn't modeled too often what I just described from the male perspective.

Well, yeah, we talk about that all the time in the Better Love Club that a lot of times women most of the time are much more comfortable speaking about their feelings and even knowing what it feels like in your body to be vulnerable. Some men don't even know what that feels like because they've simply never experienced a true feeling of being vulnerable. Or it freaks them out because they know they're not supposed to feel that way. So when women are like, just tell me how you feel, or why can't you just ever connect with me? It's really not that they're trying to purposely shun you or not do the thing you want them to do. It's literally because they don't know how. And it's so natural for us as women most of the time that we can't even compute that they would not know how because we know how so much. And then we get mad at them for not knowing how or using that as an excuse. And it just makes them less and less likely to want to come to the table to try it out. But that's a fundamental misunderstanding.

I think we have 100%. We don't think about being able to translate our thoughts and feelings into a language I can reveal as a skill. And it very much is. The image that comes to my mind is a beautiful soul that has a difficult time sometimes with stuttering. And they're working so diligently to find what it is they're being asked for. And the anxiety goes up and the pressure goes up when they feel more and more and more on the spot. And then, you know what happens if you start to get in a person who's struggling to put those words into speech going, come on, come on, hurry. You know, come on. How hard is it? Spit it out. Let's go. It exacerbates the problem, and they can't speak at all. Right? There's no patience there very often because it's easy for me. It seems like it should be so easy for you. So now you're just withholding, and now you're just being malicious, and now you're just trying to intentionally avoid the conversation when actually that's not it at all. We don't realize it's a skill, and it very much is a skill. And that's one of the reasons, too, why we struggle with vulnerabilities is we first need to learn how to translate what I'm experiencing in my body, in my mind, in my emotional experiences as a human being into a language that first I can reveal it to you. And that in and of itself is a lot of skills layered on top of each other.

And then equally as important is if we're the witness, we don't understand the power and more importantly, the importance of silence and truly being present and when we are so wanting to step in. Even in the case Stacy's heard of stuttering, it's the same similar place of someone you're going to stutter just because it's so intimidating for you. The very finest gift you can be as a witness is to not say anything and stay fully present. And believe me, just as a very powerful orator, someone that speaks, he or she, when you get skilled, knows the power of silence because it draws people in. It can be very, very intimidating when you're first doing it because most of us are very uncomfortable with silence. We are.

Stay with us.

We'll be right back.

Navigating the silent, complex Moments of separation or your partner's need for space can feel like walking through a maze without a map. If this sounds familiar, know that you are not alone. This journey, filled with uncertainties and introspection, requires a gentle understanding guide. Hey, I'm Brooke from Love Shack Live. We see you, and more importantly, we get it. That's why we created the Separation Support Bundle, a collection of resources designed to not just guide you through separation, but to offer comfort and clarity during these times. Our separation guide offers insights and support to help make sense of your emotions and the process of separation and for those moments when. When words escape you. Our guide on 10 texts to send When Navigating space provides thoughtful prompts to help communicate with compassion, plus a soothing separation meditation to help ease the overwhelming moments. Because sometimes all we need is a starting point or a way to start feeling okay again. Remember, you don't have to journey through these complexities of separation alone. Our Separation Support Bundle is here to accompany you, guiding you towards healing, understanding, and most importantly, the renewed sense of self. Visit stacybartley.com bundletoday to access your free separation support.

Bundle.

At Love Shack Live, we're all about exploring the real stuff that relationships bring. The good and the challenging. So let's tackle this together, because even in the hardest times, there's hope, growth, and, yes, even love to be found.

That's actually extremely true. I follow some people who stutter on TikTok and they say the most helpful thing you can do is nothing at all. Like, don't try to finish my sentences. But also, you know, to apply it to being vulnerable. Same thing. Don't try to say what you think your partner is feeling. And also when you're silent, be silent and neutral. A lot of the times when we're silent, we can be super anxious or mad or your facial expression can be very judgmental. It's not just silence. You have to also feel relaxed in your body, too.

Yeah.

Don't be. Don't have silence. With an attitude. And we all know we can have serious attitude.

We're talking about witnessing, but we went there naturally, because I want to talk about the witnessing, and I want to talk about why that's the struggle. But I hope that you start to see where in that simple equation, I reveal, you witness.

I love that you reveal.

I witness. You can see it's a simple equation, but there's a lot of complexity to it, and that's why it's so challenging. We just talked about reveal, and reveal is being vulnerable, and you can see that there's a lot of things I need to have the ability to do in order to be vulnerable in the first place, the least of which is courageous Enough. Enough with the skill to speak up and risk with you is huge. So we don't want to underestimate that. Now let's talk about witness. The beautiful souls that I'm on the podcast with started to allude to the silence piece. To be quiet, to pause, to be patient, which is just by nature, especially of the world in which we live in, is really challenging and difficult to do because we're all spinning about 3275 miles an hour with a task list that's, you know, 3,275 tasks long. So let's identify what witness is. If I'm a witness to somebody who's revealing themselves to me, what is that? And witness is the courageous and intentional act of being fully present with another person as they reveal their true feelings. Or experience with you, without fixing, without finishing my sentences, without judging me, without interrupting me, without defending or fleeing the scene because you hear something that you. You did not like, that didn't sit well with you, or that brought up uncomfortable emotions within you. To witness is to hold space with acceptance even when you don't fully agree or understand. It means allowing what has been shared to exist without rushing to make it better, minimize it, explain it away, or make it about you. Receive the reveal communicates that you are safe here. Witnessing communicates, I see you, I hear you, I accept you. This is something I receive as your personal experience. And those are big, tall things. So witnessing is going to require both of you to risk and to do that emotional pushup. Like, not just one, like several. We can all relate to places and spaces where somebody was truly attempting to risk and reveal themselves to you and we straight up lost our shit. And when we do that, which is going to happen, it's so gonna happen. I'm not sharing these things with you about connection because I expect you to go out and be perfect. I share them with you because I want you to know how to practice. We're about.

Well, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, team. We hear often from people that we have the privilege to work with and they say, gosh, Tom and Stacy, Brooke, I tried that once or twice. I got my head taken off and then like, like, I won't be doing that again. So, I mean, it's understandable because many of us have tried that once or twice. Or maybe we witness others that are close to the lake and that didn't go so well. Like, heck, no, I ain't doing that. Like, no, no, no, no. So what do we do? We just. We either control or collapse that. That's what we do. Again, there aren't too many examples that people can bring up that are descriptive of what we're teaching and coaching and mentoring and encouraging to do. And just like, it's nobody's fault, because how much time have we spent doing it? It is, especially if it doesn't go well. And we've been a part of that experience. Like, oh, boy, you know?

Well. And now we understand why we see such few examples exist in the world and in our communities and in our society of deep, true, intimate connection. The stuff we all say we want, but we have no idea how it is created and how to experience more of it. And we also need to wrap our minds around the reality that it is lifetime pursuit. It is a lifetime endeavor that we will Consistently learn how to do better and better over time. If we will try again, if we will learn by doing it.

I mean, we were just having a meeting before we hit record here just a few moments ago. And Brooke and I were finally getting an opportunity to speak because Stacy likes to talk. I'm not just kidding. But no, I mean we were just, we were having, you know, and Stacy says, guys, now, wait a minute now. I have been very patient because I said, honey, be patient.

Patient.

Well, I think I have been patient. Now it's my turn to talk. So like guys, we're navigating into. And Brooke and I said, you're right, we apologize. You're right. Because we've done this thousands. We can catch it in real time. But it hasn't been without. I would say I'm a very fast processor. So things come to me very fast. And in all our years together, I say, babe, like, get to it, honey, just cool down. Just give me a chance. Why are you in such a hurry? You're right, I'm sorry, sweetie. I get spun up, man. I mean, I can take it as fast as you can give it to me, but not everyone is wired that way. And why am I in such a hurry anyway? So Stacy will say, like, calm your shit down and relax, take a breath and give me a chance to get it out. I mean, happens a lot and I need to cool my jets.

And dad and I think similarly. So sometimes we can double team mom too, which dad just explained happened. Mom 2 is very good at saying, it's my turn to talk now. And same. All three of us can do it. I can get talked over, dad can get talked over, mom two can get talked over. But we all three are very comfortable with saying, okay, now it's my turn. Not everyone has that capability to be able to do that without getting offended, you know.

Yeah, they're talking about a lot of reps, a lot of emotional push ups.

And we'll never be done with them either. No, like, remember a lifetime pursuit and endeavor. If I want the sweet stuff and you say, oh, I will never do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to be vulnerable. Nope, that's off the table. Never going to do that again. Or there's no way I'm going to sit and receive what is being said to me. If it's wrong, if it's incorrect, if I don't relate. Doesn't make sense to me. Well, then that's okay. You need to come to the reality that you're never going to have deep intimacy then. Because if you don't want to do those two things, you won't have it. You know, as I say often, it's kind of like say I'm going to be a millionaire, but you're not willing to get a job, you're not willing to earn money in order to become a millionaire. You're not willing to do the things that you need to do in order to accomplish that. If you want that special stuff, and it's going to require a lot of you, you are going to have to practice some of these things that we're talking about. There's just no way around it. And it's okay if you don't want to do it. It's just that is the expectation that if I do these things, I'm going to have it. No, no, you actually won't. It requires us to be vulnerable, reveal, and to witness another person. Even when I don't understand or agree. And I appreciate that that's asking a lot of us.

So if your partner was explaining like you're having a deep conversation, maybe you're discussing a thing, you've been fight a lot and your partner is explaining something to you and they've gotten the details of the circumstances wrong, a lot of us in the witness position would say, I need to correct those details right this second. You got the date wrong, or you got the time wrong, or you got the name of this person wrong. No, don't say a word. Just let them go on. By you correcting them, you've taken away your. You're not in the witness position anymore and you've taken away the little bit of emotional safety that you established by listening up into that point. And now you're back into the correcting mode and it's just taken all the wind out of the sails of the thing that was about to happen because you allowed yourself to get so triggered by the mistake that you won't let the conversation continue. And that really trips us up.

And I can hear the listener going, but Brooke, they're wrong. They got it wrong, I'm telling you. And so I'm just supposed to be okay with that? Like I'm just supposed to let that fly. And I just want to reassure you there will be time for us to come back around and talk about those things. Remember, it's a two way door. I reveal, you reveal. I witness you, you witness me. So all those things that are coming up that you're going, ah, that's not it. No, no, no, you're going to have your chance to come back around and say, hey, I just want to point out a couple things, you know, please hear me out. We. That's a conversation. And so if I ju. Brooke described and do it right in the minute, you're going to just shut the connection down.

That's a classic example of you're doing the very thing that you don't appreciate having done to you. But that takes some ability to be self reflective. So if you wouldn't want that done to you, well, then why would that be okay for you to do it to someone else?

I mean, because you know why it's happening, because you're in your own brain. You can see the reason behind it. But we lose that when someone else does it to us.

So, I mean, that's part of the ability to become more actualized. So we have to be able to look outside of our own reality. Right. That also is a classic case. What Brooke described as you're sacrificing to be right for the much deeper to create safety and a witness and revealing part. If you do that, you're going to fracture it. You will. And the more that we fracture, the less and less any of us are going to be willing to step back in and try it again. How do we know that? Because what people share with us all the time, we're just something we're thinking about. We see it, People tell us this goes on for them all the time. So this is what people reveal to us all the time. So we're being very honest with you. And it's very hard when we know we're so right. Well, wait a minute. Well, is really having that Maybe they got home at 7:15. Is that really in the grand scheme of things? You have to be able to look at things from a broader perspective.

Also, I'm sharing this as a place of vulnerability, that I used to do this all the time to mom too. And when we first started working together, I would always interrupt her to correct her in certain aspects. And a couple of years ago, she said on a podcast that when you do that to someone, it stops all connection. And I was like, holy shit. I have done that to her specifically and everyone in my life so many times because I was super controlling or I thought I was helping or I had to correct the narrative. And it wasn't until she phrased it in that way that it became so clear for me and so much easier for me to not do it anymore because I'm like, I don't want to stop the connection. I was never doing it for that reason. You know, it's that thing. It's the. Your ego or. Or you're like, no, I know this one thing. If I say it, it will change the course of the conversation, but it never does. It always just interrupts the person's thought, and it never adds to anything unless you wait until they're done speaking and then you can have the conversation. But I had a visceral moment. I've never shared that with her before, and I thought it would be a good story for this podcast because it's real. It really hit me in the heart when she said that, because I was like, wow, that is not my intention at all, but I could 100% see what the other person is receiving or perceiving it as, you know.

Yeah, no, thank you for that, Brooke. I mean, the truth is, to be a witness, we absolutely have got to practice being able to not react. And that is a skill. And there's lots of things that we can skill up with that will help us accomplish that. But until we do, conversations are going to be really difficult and scary. And also the disconnect that we feel and, like, kind of slowly slipping away will continue to be the case unless we can learn how to sit with it instead of react. Because think about how many times and I've even done this, like, please, please, please, come on, just tell me how you feel. Come on, just lay it on the table, right? I've had people in my office literally begging their partner on their knees, please, just tell me the truth so I can understand. And the truth comes out, and all hell breaks loose.

Loose.

And so what did we just do? We just disconnected and created a lot of fear and an unwillingness to risk with you.

So if you really think about it, you lied. You're begging them to tell you, and then when they tell you, you go batshit crazy. You know what I mean?

What it just showcases. It's not intentional. I maybe didn't even know I was gonna do that. But what they heard was, like, so dead in the heart. And so all I could think to do to deal with the uncomfortable emotions that your reveal brought up me is to survive and cope by ripping your face off or going, you know, running out of the office. It's just too much. And so I want you to understand that that is going to be a challenge and a consistent practice from all of us. You're going to lose your shit. It's going to happen. And that's where, when we do React and you will. You're going to need to be able to create what I call a do over as soon as possible. Well, what's that? It means I'm sorry, I just reacted. I'm sorry. Can we reset and go again? It just kind of was a surprise or I didn't think it was going to be that or I was afraid it was that. I mean whatever it was for you, we got to create a do over. Let me try again. Let's try again please, so that we can practice this. Because if we can't allow do overs when we make messes, we're not going to have a lot of success here. Like this is messy, courageous work that we consistently need to practice on learning the skills and getting better at and that will be required of us. So where do we begin then? To enhance our ability to deeply connect? I would suggest that we start here by saying something along the lines of here's something real for me. I want to share with you today. No need to respond and you give yourself whatever you feel safe enough with the room and the space to just reveal something small at first. Because here's the other thing. I get success courageously sharing and revealing this about me. I'm naturally going to want to do more of it. It's principled and that goes well. Then I want to open up and share a little more. And I'm sure all of us have had the experience of this in our own lives where we started by saying a word or a phrase just to see how it goes. And then all of a sudden maybe we'll share a sentence and then more of a paragraph and then we finally go, okay, fine, I'm just gonna go for it. I'm just gonn. Because that's how we manage risk as a human being. Nobody can take that away from us. So we have to also practice what is real for being a human being. And so I just need to begin with something small and safe and that if I understand the equation of I reveal, you witness, you witness me and then you reveal. I witness you. We can start in these teeny small places to just reveal, but I have to also make sure that I am in a place where I can play both sides of that equation. It's not just about me revealing, it's not just about you revealing. We both have to do a push up in order to maintain that witness.

Yeah. What's coming to mind for me, I mean the sports world, you know, when we kind of get started, we're kind of warm, let's just do a little volley here. I mean, you're just kind of little warm up and pickleball. You know, you just kind of warm up. I mean, you're not like trying to crush it right out of the gate so you can just kind of warm it up. So, yeah, start small all. Don't go for the super bowl right out of the gate.

Yeah, don't slam somebody because they're not ready for it. But that's how we start. In the reveal space. On the reveal side of the equation, here's something real for me I want to share with you today. No need to respond.

I just want to point out it's kind of profound that really, I know we already moved on to reveal, but I just want to say witness is probably the hardest job in this. Well, it depends. But being the witness is hard. I want to just say on the outside, all it looks like is that you're being silent. But think about all the work that you're doing internally to be a witness. And that kind of is a beautiful metaphor for the work that we do, the three of us do. We think that it's just, you know, being in a relationship, we always talk about how it's the invisible because all of the work that you're doing is emotional. So on the outside, it looks to everyone that you have a great relationship. But think about all the stuff that you are doing on the inside to make it that way. It's just. You can't see it, you know?

Well, no, I was gonna say here that, you know, that's the reveal side. And here's a skill for the witness side. And you nailed it. Like, pause before responding to somebody's reveal. Like, slow down, Try it on. Take in what has been revealed to you before.

You just react out of the first emotion you Feel.

Count to 10, right. Sit with it, Allow it to be accepted as it is. We can come back and like, rework it and look at it and analyze it and such. But there's a moment in the reveal where if I count to 10 and I'll just slow down and I'll try it on and I'll take it in, right? And just receive it that then I can maintain often that witness position.

Sometimes when I feel a little bit offended by a reveal that my partner has given to me, sharing something that he doesn't like that I'm doing or what I've done has hurt him. And I don't want to accept it fully, but I want to validate him. I say I can really See how you feel that way, you know, because it's not saying I am that, but it's validating. I can see why you are seeing it this way.

Is it pretty fair to say, in your experience, babe, that when this reveal and witness process starts, most likely what's being revealed, especially if we're just stepping into this arena, it, you know in a new way in our relationship, that there's probably going to be some significant trigger attached to that, what we're witnessing. Is that probably fair to say.

And that's why often we need a third party.

Yeah, right.

Help us through it, because it helps us muster up the courage. When I have somebody that's a neutral third party in the room, so I can reveal a little more or maybe some things that I tried to reveal that didn't go so well, and then I can also get some help in slowing down and being the witness. That's what I do. I'm there to meet, or I don't do the talking. I do the teaching and the conversations. I want to just help everybody do just that, because that's how we're going to feel better after the session. We're going to walk out, regardless of what has been shared, feeling more connected. And that is my commitment to my clients. I want you to walk out feeling better than when you walked in. And so I'm very often just helping this natural process take place. And I can do that because I don't have any emotional attachment or involvement in regards to what's being revealed. And I can support the person in the witness position to actually hold and maintain it and slow the pace of the sharing down so that we can create some successes here. So it is true, if I'm in the witness position to say, I hear you, and if I can support you with this, please let me know. And Brook's phrase is all really great things to kind of like, put in the pocket and the tool chest. Oh, sorry. I'm in the witness position. I mean, that's a huge win. Like, we count that as a score on the scorecard. Like, just being able to catch it and work with it and become aware of it is the first place that we want to focus and where we want to go with it. And I'll say this finally about the witness position. Look, there's really only three options we have as a human being in regards to managing something that's really difficult for us to hear, and that brings up a lot of internal emotions for us. I can take it personal, which means I'm Going to step into some kind of a victim role where I go, oh, my God, that is so hurtful. I. I can't believe you would go there and you say you love me, and that's going to shut the conversation down. Or I can defend it. That's usually where I start posturing and go, that's unbelievable. You said that. You know, screw you. Stuff that one up your rear. We're done now. Okay, that's going to shut the conversation down. Down. And my only last option as a human being in human relationships is to say, damn, that's really hard to hear. Help me understand why you see me in that light, or help me understand how this shows up for you, or help me understand what it is you would like to see and experience that's different than this. Now, we can learn something and we can get through it and we can maneuver through it. But if I get into a place of defensiveness or taking it personally, I want you to see that's the challenge. It's not wrong that we do it. It's human that we do it. But we also need to see and understand in the witness position why it disconnects us. And it will consistently, every time, with no exceptions. 0. We will have to come back around again and go through the steps again in order to move through it in a better way next time.

So if there's no change, is that why we often hear every time we have this, the conversation goes the same way?

Because it does go the same way. Every time I attempt to bring it up, somebody is not able to hold the witness position and steps into the personalization and the defensive or another version of that.

Every. We seem to just go round and around and around. Well, yeah, to be fair. Well, because I'm on. What's the classic definition of insanity? We're not bringing any new skills or approaches to the same basic conversation. That's why there's no different result. It's not fair to think that there would be.

Well, it's really a tender thing. When you start to really see through the layers of how complicated we make this. The desire to connect with you deeply almost turns into a desperation. Like, can we all get in touch with that experience? Like, I am so desperate to connect with you, to have you see me and love me and cherish me. And I'm doing all of this pleasing and performing and going along with and saying yes when I need to probably say no. Like I'm working my tell off to provide and do all the things. Things thinking that that's going to take me to a place of connection with you, and you finally seeing and understanding and loving me without realizing it. It doesn't do any of that. And so we exhaust ourselves and the frustration and then the escalation of the defensiveness and the personalization becomes exacerbated as we, in our desperate frustration attempt to reach for each other yet again, only to find ourselves more disconnected than ever. You want to talk about fearful panic? Like that is as panicked as we become as a human being when we've built these lives together that we can't seem to figure out how to keep from unraveling. Right? And it is. We say it's the simple things because it is the simple things. It's simple but not easy to reveal. To know what you're thinking and feeling and to find those answers with inside of yourself, but courageous as hell. And to witness. Like, what could be simpler than being silent? Silent doesn't mean you don't have a voice. Silent means I have the ability to pause and take in what is being shared, to receive it and accept it, even though I don't agree with it, even though it might bring up some uncomfortable feelings for me. And believe me, when it's your turn, because that door's gotta swing both directions, you can reveal some things that have come up for you and your partner's revealing as you invite them to take in your experience as well. The reaction of someone when you reveal does not mean you were not supposed to reveal it. What it highlights is the person you shared it with has been flooded with a lot of big emotions that they are coping with and they are doing their best to manage. And what many of us do is take that personal or get defensive to manage the emotions and the feelings that are coming up, which is a whole nother needed skill set. That's what's happening. We often go to malicious narratives in our movies about why they do what they do. If they could reveal that to you and understood it for themselves, what they do would make a lot of sense. When you understand where they're going in their minds and the big emotions that they're attempting to manage, it doesn't mean it's okay that they say and do some pretty messed up shit sometimes. I'm not saying that, but what I am trying to impart is that it's not wrong for us to reveal what's true for us. And it's not okay to lash out and take our big emotions that we're struggling to manage ourselves on each other. And those are the things that we need to get better at and skill up so that we can create and experience more connection in our lives. Lives. So as we land this episode, I want to give you a really real story that's going to be, in the spirit of full disclosure, a little challenging for me to share. I've never shared this on our podcast before, and I decided I was going to be brave and vulnerable and share it with you because I think it highlights so well what it is we're talking about today. It's easy for you to assume that people who teach about relationships have it all figured out for our life over here, Tom and Stacy. We just take long walks and do candlelight dinners and have this perfectly timed moment of connection that we're describing here for you today. But here's the truth. Tom and I are human being right along with you, and we experience very often the things that we've talked about here in this podcast. And like every couple, we've had our storms, and I'm sure we haven't had the last of our storms. That's not true for any of us. We'd been together less than two years when life handed us a challenge that would stretch every skill we had and some that we hadn't learned yet. It took us to our knees when my daughter, my biological daughter, along with her six beautiful children, needed a way out of a domestic violence situation. And in an instant, my life with Tom, our life together, our home, became a refuge, a shelter, and a place where trauma and healing began to collide. There was no manual for this. It asked us to deploy an abundance of resources of all types. We're talking time, energy, space, patience, emotional bandwidth, and financial resources on top of it. And most of all, it required us to show up for each other in ways that felt vulnerable and exceptionally uncomfortable at the time. As Tom would lovingly say, but babe, this is not what I listed in my match.com profile, right? Like, this is not at all an experience I wanted to step into at any point in time in my life. Tom is one of the most generous men I know and consistently shows up again and again and again in this place, even when it is fucking hard. There were moments when Tom and I would sit on the couch, both drained, on edge, unsure of what to say to each other. Other moments on hikes when one of us would finally let the tears fall out and cry in each other's arms, and late nights around a glass of wine where we would circle back to the same question over and over again. How are we Doing? How are you doing? Like, really? Come on, be real with me here. Let's tell the truth. We had to practice what we teach again and again and again and still do the loop of connection, reveal, witness, feel safe, grow intimacy. This is where that all came to a head for us. We learned that there wasn't always a solution, but there could always be a space that we could express the truths that we were feeling and experiencing inside of ourselves to one another. There was space for fear, for frustration, for gratitude, for exhaustion, for connection, even over the really tough stuff. And over time, through all the loops of revealing and witnessing, we found what I now call our sweet spot. That sacred place where we are not trying to fix each other or defend my daughter or your daughter or those kids or these kids anymore. We're just being honest about what it's like to be human together. It's not perfect, but it's real. And from there, we've been able to remind each other that we can weather anything from this place. If we can maintain that space, nothing gets solved. Nothing gets fixed. Sometimes we're going to ride in it for a really long time. But if we can come back to this sweet spot, we have everything we need to remain connected and figure it out tomorrow or next week or next month or next year. And I want you to know, I am so certain that you can, too. In fact, if you desire more practice creating real connections, I want you to highly consider joining the better love club. We make emotional skill building a weekly ritual. And whether you're navigating space or separation, rebuilding a marriage, or exploring the world of dating, we've got a path for you, you and will help you practice the kind of conversations that deepen connection and as a love shack live listener, use code LOVESTACK15 to receive 15% off your first month. You can check us out at betterloveclub.com or visit our website at stacybartly.com for many ways that you can get better at this thing we call love.

And I will just share. If you're single and would like to join us, we want to have you. Okay, so this is something that we wanted to long support people that are stepping back into the dating world. We often hear like, good gosh, how the heck am I supposed to do that? We understand and we're excited. That's going to be starting in the fall. But if you're struggling with spatial separation or if you're struggling with trying to decide if you're going to stay or go in your marriage, save your marriage and Avoiding divorce. Either one of those places you'll be in different nights of the Better Love club. Monday nights for space and separation. Wednesday nights for saving your marriage. We'd love. And then again, pretty soon your name on the list. Pretty soon we're going to have a wait list. Brookie's doing an amazing. We're having a brand new new body of work that Brooke is creating for us. That's been one heck of a project in the newsroom. She has been on assignment for a long time and it's coming soon. I'm the detail guy and I just want to make sure because you're going to say I don't see any place for the dating. Yeah, you're right, it's not there yet. But reach out to us and we're going to have a sign up page here really soon for that.

How about you send us an email? Yeah, send us loveaceybartley.com and say I want to be notified when the daters is ready and we'll make sure you are notified. Notified. How about a little follow the fun?

Yeah, man.

Yeah. I'm going to invite you to do a reveal to yourself. I'm going to ask you to explore the question of where am I hiding or performing instead of revealing in my life? We have to begin with taking a good hard look at ourselves. Where am I hiding or performing instead of revealing in my life? Life. And how well do I do with witnessing others? And it's okay, like I was trashy at it. Brooke shared a story that she and I still find myself sometimes jumping in and going, oh, okay, okay, okay. Just let it set. Just let it be. It's going to be something again that we don't get perfect at, but that we are aware enough to see and know how to navigate it. And what would help me feel safe so that I can risk in both of these areas again, like what would it take? What would you need to hear? What would you need to experience in order to be able to risk witnessing somebody and revealing instead of performing good things for us to think about and to create an awareness around. And then lastly, what is one small takeaway from this podcast that you can begin to practice right now out of those questions that you explore for yourself. Like just one teeny tiny thing. Not big, just teeny tiny me. And please, dear listener, anything we've said here today, do not judge yourself harshly, for we are sharing very deep principles here again that we commonly don't share on the podcast, but that we share in our community in the Better Love Club. And I just want to remind you again, this isn't about feeling shameful or guilty or judging yourself for what is currently playing out right now and why it is. Perhaps you don't feel like you have the sense of intimacy and connection that you long for. For the really good news is that if we can befriend this and truly look at what is, you too can get better at this and have what it is I know your heart longs for. It has to begin, though, with being able to turn and take a good hard look at myself in these places of reveal and witness. You can do this. You can get better at this. You really can. This week's song is from an artist called Daxlin. He has a song that if my voice could hold you if my voice could hold you right now, I would remind you you're not broken, you're not small, you matter. If my voice could hold you, I would never let you fall and I send this song off to you as my hope that you will listen to it and that you will remind yourself of these very simple truths. If my voice could hold you, I would not let you fall. So there's all kinds of good things on the horizon if we can step into these places and really accept where we are so that we can go towards what it is we truly long for. Thank you so much for listening today. If this episode stirred something in you, if it reminded you of a truth that you've been carrying or a conversation you've been avoiding writing, please don't keep it to yourself. When we share these things with others who need to hear it, we post it, text it, talk about it. It actually helps it make it possible for the rest of us. So the more we speak up, the more we make it possible for others to do the same. So until next time, be kind to yourself. Speak up, at least to your own heart and soul. And remember that love gets better as you become braver overall. Bye bye for now.

All right, it's time to leave the Love Shack. But before we part ways, we want you to know our door is always open and we'll leave the porch light on. Ready to welcome you back whenever you need a dose of relationship wisdom. For more resources and tools, Visit us at loveshacklive.com to dive deeper into the topics we've explored. Explored and find additional support for your relationship journey. Stay connected by subscribing to our podcast. Thank you for being part of our Love Shack Live community.