Podcast

Right now, it feels like the world is pulling apart on us, doesn't it? Conversations that once felt effortless now feel loaded. Relationships that once felt safe now feel fragile. It's as if there's this inevitable wall between us, one that keeps us growing not in the direction that we want to go. And the wall seems to get higher and higher every time we misunderstand each other or avoid the hard conversations or assume we're never going to see eye to eye again. And let's be honest, sometimes it just feels easier to shut people out than to try and bridge the divide. But at what cost? Welcome to Love Shack Live, the podcast for people at a relationship crossroads, struggling with those daily conflicts, the emotional distance that is growing, and a longing for the connection that feels very real and genuine again. I'm Stacy Bartley, a relationship mentor who spends the last decade helping people navigate love's toughest seasons. And I'm joined by my husband and co host Tom, and our daughter, Brooke. And today, we're picking up where we left off in our last conversation with Topaz Adizas, a master of human connection and the creator of the Emmy award winning project the and And. If you tuned into our last episode, you already know how powerful Topaz's work is. He spent years facilitating some of the most emotionally raw, deeply personal conversations between human beings from all walks of life. He doesn't just study connections. He creates the conditions for it. He's watched in real time how the right questions can break down walls, dissolve fear, and help people find their way back to one another. Today we're going even deeper. What is really at the root of division, both in the world and in our relationships? How does fear shape the way we interact with each other? And what's the one shift that can transform how we relate not just to our partners, but to everyone in our lives. If you've ever felt like you're losing someone not because they've left, but because you can't seem to reach them anymore, stick with us. This episode isn't just about understanding connection. It's about learning how to create it, even amongst the hardest moments in our lives. So let's dive in.

Hey, thank you for coming. Welcome to the Love Shack.

Topaz. Welcome back to the Love Shack. It's always such a joy and a pleasure to have you here with us.

Yeah. Super good to be here. Thank you.

Yeah. And I want to begin this conversation. You and I are kind of on the front lines in this, what I presume to be an impassioned place to Create human connection and humanity. Right. Like, come on, let's be careful here. I'd love to see what you see as you travel the world creating these incredible connections with human beings. Like why do you feel like. Or what do you see is making this more and more difficult for us to create connection amongst us in all the places and spaces.

Because you get good at what you practice. So if you go. Before social media, we were slightly more practiced then at having conversations, whether it would be in the elevator, in the taxi, at work or whatnot. But now we are less practiced at it because we're entertained by the phones, which is a monologue. It's a one way conversation. Right. You are taking in someone else speaking. Even on WhatsApp, the new generation. I have a brother in law who's like a millennial and I just see him leaving voice messages for my wife or his girlfriend. It's like a monologue. And I think that's normal. But that's not practicing the act of listening because you're leaving a monologue and then you wait and then they send you a monologue back. And so this kind of in real time, live time listening and conversing, something that because of social media, because of the technology we have in our hands, we're becoming less practice at the art of sitting in conversation, which is a dialogue, not a monologue.

I would say even just looking at another person, like looking at people in the eyes.

Absolutely, absolutely. That too. And I think, I think that's one thing that's leading us because we're less practice at it and we're less conscientious of it, which is also interesting because in that sense, I wonder if we did the. And 100 years ago, if it would be as transformational for the people having the conversation. I think it's. We just came back from three days filming in New York and we had a lot of people who didn't know what the end was. And they came in and they didn't realize the experience they're about to have. And there was over. They said, wow, that was amazing. What just happened? How do we do this again? Can I take these cards home with me? So I think now, and now, as we evolve and continue going down this journey of technology and evolving as human beings and the way we relate to one another, I think the value of sitting down eye to eye and actually having a conversation with well constructed questions in a space that supports inquiry will be even that much more profound. But I think it's practice. I think it's what are we practicing? What are we practicing? And what you practice that you get good. And oftentimes, especially in the scope of relationships, at least romantic relations, when you say love, you think, oh, I'm in love. And then therefore we hit this peak moment of connection that will remain the same. And that's how it is because we love each other. It's actually. No, there's a practice here, right? Let's not take for granted that this cries a practice. And a practice is something that you do repeatedly and you just make slight increments and sometimes you'll improve fast and sometimes you'll plateau. Then you have a breakthrough and plateau and you have other improvements. I think that realization is something that we should bring to the table in terms of where we are now and what we can do about it to create deeper relationships.

I could not agree with you more. That monologue really resonates. It's true. It is very much a one way conversation. And when I get couples in my private practice, right, it very easily and quickly can turn into a monologue. And we've lost the skill to be able to hear or contemplate some things that don't necessarily sit well with me, shall I say? You know, that becomes this emotional escalation where I can't believe what I'm hearing. And that's the biggest problem with the monologue is as long as it's a monologue and a one way conversation, I don't have to manage or emotionally regulate myself. But the minute I start to hear some things that maybe I don't agree with or that I don't identify or that I am absolutely opposed to, that's the minute that I get that signal emotional inside of myself as a human being. And then I feel like I've got to jump in and attack it or correct the narrative or set the situation right, or tell you not to do that anymore because it's bringing up uncomfortable feelings within myself without realizing. Sometimes those uncomfortable feelings tell us a lot that we can learn from. About myself, about the us or the and part, as you say, and about where it is we need to understand in order to move forward and have those breakthroughs that you've just mentioned. Totally agree that it's a practice. It's obvious that we've become very afraid of our uncomfortable emotions. So much so that in the monologue, to hear me get on a soapbox, just have people start diagnosing each other, get, get in there and like start doing the quizzes on social media and then start labeling everybody because the minute we start doing that is the minute that I start deeming you as this thing and not the person that I love and care about. You're this gaslighter, you're this narcissist. You're this, you know, Avoidance.

Yeah. I feel like we're moving past a stage of polarization into alienation, whereby you might disagree with someone and therefore you don't want to talk to them, you don't want to be with them. And I think the big thing is, then what's the payoff? Why should I invest in that conversation when it's uncomfortable and we don't agree? And even though this is a good friend for 20 years, why would I sit in that uncomfortable space where we disagree? I think that's a valid question. And one thing that comes to me is that how can I expect this world to resolve its differences if I can't even have a conversation with a trusted friend of 20 years where we have a conflict? And we might have things directly at stake in whatever the politics is or whatnot, but we can't have a conversation? What. What kind of world are we creating if you and I can't even have that uncomfortable conversation for our children? How can we expect the world to stop being at war with each other and. And come to a peaceful resolution if you and I can't even have a peaceful disagreement? If we avoid the disagreement entirely, then we're not having a disagreement. We're just alienating one another, and that's another form of war, because we are a collective organism on social media.

It's super interesting that you said that, Topaz, because it's almost like there's these clubs and like, to please the club that you're in, you have to cut off every person who doesn't disagree with you. And then if. If you decide not to, you're going against your side, and then you're seen as, like, a traitor, and it's super dysfunctional and confusing because I. I'm a liberal. I don't agree with cutting off everyone that's in your life who disagrees with you, because just like you said, how are we supposed to model functional relationships for the next generation if we are acting so dysfunctional? Because that's not. It's not realistic to live in an echo chamber to cut off everyone who goes against what you believe just so that you can live in a fake illusion of a peaceful world that you've created on your own. But you're not allowing anyone with who. Who has differing opinions in. In to, you know, disrupt what you think.

It's totally not realistic to not live in an eco chamber anymore. Maybe it is.

No.

I mean, yes, I think you can.

Live in your own echo chamber and not ever have to deal with anybody who's outside of it. Yes, you're right, because in the past you have to, like, physically meet people and. But now.

Yes, technology.

Just find your community online and then block everyone who doesn't, whether physical or not. And so then you can live in an echo chamber.

Yeah, but I don't think. I don't think we should.

No, I agree. But you said it's like, it's not realistic. And I say, well, now I think it is true that people can do it.

True.

Why should I step out of my eco chamber? Because it makes you feel uncomfortable. Albeit I might not be living with what's true. But it's true. I think, of these people.

Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head, is the reason why we're in the place that we're in is because we all are living in. In our own echo chambers that we've created, which.

Which we've. And the thing is that a big challenge is that we equate the echo chamber with our identity. We equate our opinions with our identity. And therefore, the hardest thing to change is your identity. But when you equate your opinion, your eco chamber, to your identity, that in turn the hardest thing to change is your opinion and your echo chamber. So if you can. If we can separate those two and say, my identity is here and here and here. But my opinions can change when I get new pieces of information, make it acceptable for people to say, hey, I was wrong here, or I had a misconception here, or. Or I just change my mind because I've grown. If we make that more of an acceptable, then people might be more open to changing their opinion.

Yes.

Separating it from their identity, their sense of identity. But we're not doing that.

It's just that that's the biggest issue I see with the liberal people, is that they are purists. So if you make one misstep, if you accidentally support someone who they deem is, you know, not supportable, or you, like, have an opinion that's maybe crossing the line into something that's not seen as being okay, then you're out. It doesn't make any sense. And I just think that the reason why we're so divided, you just identified it so beautifully, is that. And we have to stop. It's 100% a huge issue that people believe they can't change their minds. So.

Well, and I, I think you're, you're pushing on something that has broader application. We're seeing it highlighted in the contrast of our lives big and bold in the political world right now. But I just want to bring this realization that it exists within the walls of our very home. When we're having the same conversation about messes and mistakes that I make on the everyday, daily as a human being, we are really mess making machines. And until we can accept and admit that that I am growing and evolving, where I am today is a great place to be. And that's true for everyone around me. And tomorrow I may need to change my perspective or my point of view or I'm allowed to do that if we are constantly in a process of growth because we are constantly changing as human beings and we lear this principle of contrast, which we have a tremendous amount of it right now. So the contrast that I'm living in helps me see and identify who I am, but it also helps me see and identify others. And my inability to interrelate to that contrast is going to be the thing that constantly puts me in a place of fear where I'm going to want to create an echo chamber so that I don't have to face what's happening or the realities that are going on around me or the differences in the change that is absolutely inevitable. And I get it right. Sometimes it's scary to embrace that change. Sometimes it's scary to have a conversation that's difficult. That, you know, is challenging because we sit in polar opposite views and perspectives. But I think what we often discount is the ability of what an opportunity that is because it can expand us. It has the opportunity and the potentiality to expand both of our views and our perspectives, which thereby helps me see things from a different place. I often like to think of human beings as each carrying a piece of a fractal. Because the reality is we all have a view and a perspective that can contribute to the whole. But very often we feel threatened by that. Instead of learning and realizing that your piece of the fractal and my piece of the fractal gives us a bigger view of a whole picture. That's why masterminds are so empowering and impactful from a business perspective. Because you're not just left in your own echo chamber, which can become a terrifying place to live. A terrifying place to live because I'm only resourcing from my own thoughts and perspective. It won't be until I can get brave enough and find the courage to kind of face some of those fears that I can step into finding broader perspective, which makes me, ironically, feel safer in the world. And so right now, fear is running rampant from the societal changes, the political shifts, the economic instability, the climate crisis. All of this makes us feel like, oh, my God, like, I need to find a place to, like, cling on to. We kind of go back this tribal mentality that if you're not with me, you're against me. And that's where I start to find my identity and feel like I feel safe without realizing, oh, actually, the real opportunity is for us to understand those pieces of a fractal that are represented by each human face that you stare into. That will help me understand the broader perspective and therefore create a contribution into my life and me understanding myself better. The world better. The US better. The. And better. Our communities better. And I think we're losing that idea at an exponential rate because we don't want to deal with the discomfort of stepping into those conversations because of the, you know, the fear, sometimes paralyzing fear that we fear around it.

Yep, I agree with that.

Yeah, we. We do. You know, just. Just to kind of, like, stack on that. Like, that is tribal psychology. Right. And so we identify politically for these reasons. We naturally seek belonging, and in times of uncertainty, we tend to latch onto identities that then define us so that we have an us versus them. And you're right, Topaz, you've mentioned this, but social media news outlets amplify this division unbelievably. Brooke, even the groups that you were talking about on social media, making it feel as though the world is split into these two places of irreconcilable differences to survive. And we must pick a side. It's like, I got to pick a side. And you know what? I see this in the homes with which we live in as well, where we feel like we have these irreconcilable differences. And, Topaz, I bet you see this in your. And all the time, where a parent and a child or romantic lovers or friends, longtime friends come together, and we feel like we've hit this impasse of irreconcilable differences, and we've got to pick a side. And I can't see your side for fear of losing myself. And you said it best earlier, my identity, like, that's the scary part. I'm going to lose my identity and everything I stand for. And sometimes we forget that fear isn't contagious. It's not going to get all over you. If I truly step in and try and understand where you're coming from, it doesn't mean that all of a sudden I'm going to lose my footing or my place or where I stand or the piece of the fractal that I see. It's just going to help me understand where you're coming from. And then and there I can decide what it is I want to do with that information. Right. It's not going to change my perspective or my view or how I identify as a person right now today. It's just going to help me understand where you're coming from and then I can decide how I want to dance with that. Sometimes it feels like it's contagious. Like if I truly step in and understand where you're coming from, well, then it's going to get all over me and I'm doomed, which is not true. I'd love for you to speak to that.

No, I just think, you know, when you sit down to dinner, what's the first thing you do after you look at the menu? You ask the other people at the table, what are you having for dinner? We have a natural need to do the same. It's like the herding mentality, the tribal mentality. And so when you sit across from a friend or a colleague or family member which is part of your tribe or your herd, and you realize that you have a difference of opinion, then you really feel unsafe. Because in order for us to feel safe, we have to feel we survive in the herd, we survive in the tribe. So it's really challenging to have a disagreement. Because you have a disagreement, it threatens your. It threatens the cohesiveness of the tribe or the herd or the family. And therefore it's really challenging. So the best thing to do is to step away from that and not feel that fear of the disintegration with your herd, with your tribe. Because we have like centuries of you survive in collaboration with your tribe or your herd. I mean, it's only been in the last century was really becomes about individualism and you can survive on your own. And so it's still ingrained in us. And I think that's where, okay, you have this disagreement, you have this information, you talk about this beautiful idea of fractals, but what's the incentive for me to go against that fear I have of this disagreement with someone in my tribe to then sit in. Sit maybe in a space of an agreeing to disagree. And I think that's where it's really hard for us. Because the only thing I grab onto is, well, if I can't have this conversation with you, then how can I expect the world to have an uncomfortable conversation? That's the only thing that I can think of. And so if the space, if I feel like the space is safe, meaning that we. I respect the other person and I trust the other person, not malevolent or that it's a toxic relationship, then I try to put myself in the position to have those conversations. What is the pull that will offer you the payoff such that you're willing to go in the direction against the current, which is your fear of the disagreement with the people around you. You don't want to. So then you'd rather just go into your echo chamber where you disagree and you feel safe there because we all. And there's no disagreements and we can all kind of sing to the choir because the choir resonates. But if I go outside, I'm not going to do that because then I feel the fear that I can't survive in that tribe. So what's the thing that pulls you to have those uncomfortable conversations, you guys think?

I think it's to feel safer in the world at large.

At large.

At large because of your tribe. Beyond needing to be supported in a safe echo chamber. Yeah, it feels safe. But what is it costing me? What is it really costing me? And I would say it's costing me some understanding, some self esteem, some self confidence to be out in the world at large and know that whomever I bump into, wherever you come from in a walk of life that I know and have the skills and the ability to sit down and have a conversation with you. We may not agree at the end of the day, but at least I feel safe in stepping into those places and spaces. And I feel safer as a person walking around in the world being able to express myself in places and spaces like that. And so do you. There. There comes this place where I have a confidence to exist outside of my echo chamber because otherwise I'm scrambling to constantly create it. I'm constantly trying to, like, round up the validation from peeps around me that say, oh, yeah, you're right, you're right, you're right, you got it, you got it. And I cannot tolerate nor endure anybody who says they don't agree with me. And so I lose the ability to expand myself. Really, that's really kind of the cost overall, as I see it.

But also sometimes echo chambers aren't safe. I guess they are, but, like, they don't make you feel good. Not even politically, but let's say you're in a, like an anxiety support group or like a health problem support group. Everyone is scared of the same thing. So, yeah, you're in a place that feels safe, but everyone is terrified. And they're all just talking about how they're scared of these certain things happening. So that doesn't really feel good.

That's exactly what I'm pointing to. But, like, we're never going to find the safety that we think we have in these echo chambers because everybody's struggling with the same fears and anxiety. So I'm never going to be able to figure out how to grow beyond that because that comes from a thought that's beyond the echo chamber that I'm living in from somebody else who is experienced. Right. So we actually become more afraid.

Yeah.

And I would just say, Topaz, I really like that you shared there. I think it's important for us to realize as a human evolving species, the recipe has changed. So. Right.

It's changed.

So what used to work, it's not a valid recipe. So the reason why your body of work is so successful is because you implement that recipe with people perhaps that haven't sat across from each other and looked at each other for a long time. You can pretty much correct me if I'm wrong, guarantee that this is going to go well because it is so specific. Right. So how do we take what you masterfully have created around the world and then put that into a broader context? But I think just as. As our approach, like the recipe for a great relationship has changed, it's just different now. It doesn't mean it's wrong, but it's different. So we have to equip ourselves with a new recipe now or not tribal. We can be with anyone all over the world. So what is required now? I think that's. I think you really hit something. What's the incentive or the motivation? The motivation is unless we're able to do this and realize what we've been clinging on is not working, then. Then it's going to be trouble for all of us. I mean, this is. We all have a stake in this. This is big. Right. And so I think you're dead on. And so Stacy talks and we talk a lot about we have to understand the importance of the ability to resource from within because we're going to have to be required to go outside of our tribe. It's just how it's going to have to work. And that requires us to be rooted firmly in who we are. Not from a place of braggadocious, but from a place of that quiet resolve that, okay, we're gonna probably bump into some things and people and situations that don't work for us, but we're gonna be able to navigate it. We're gonna be okay. And until we get to that tipping point. But we each have a stake in this. And so someone comes across you, they see your body of work, and they go, oh, my gosh, I've never seen a conversation like that. How might I bring that into my own home, into my own life? So I think it's not cliche. We all have a stake in this. And what you're doing and what we're doing is great examples of that.

Yeah, that's beautiful. That's beautiful. I think what comes up for me is what is the world we want to shape? Yes, right. And taking a conscientious role in that. And so that. That is definitely a draw, you know.

And the only way that we're going to be able to do that is to expand in an understanding of myself, really, so that I can share it, but I can also give somebody else the permission to share their perspective that's different than mine.

But also understanding that it's not about having the answers. It's not. We don't have to get to a conversation where we both agree. I think we just need to have a conversation where we both sit in the discomfort of the question and we see the other person.

Yeah, exactly.

That speaks to a deeper truth, which is you're a human being having an experience, being informed by whatever you're taking in your information. And I'm the same. And we can have a different computation that comes out at the end, and that's okay. And I see you and you see me, you know, and I think that's important too, is that we don't have to have every conversation to agree. We can have every conversation to explore the question and see the other. I think that takes the pressure off of having to convince someone or having to prove them wrong, because it also. In you seeing the other, you're also being seen, right?

Yeah. 100% fact. There's a really great exercise that I do in person workshops where I just hold up a simple card, you know, and it's. It's. Let's say, for example, it's an umbrella. Everybody sees this umbrella. And. And then I go around the room and I ask everybody what their association to the umbrella is. And, you know, in a room full of a hundred people, I still have yet one person to identify or have the same association to that very single umbrella as everyone in the room. Oh, that reminds me of my grandmother. She'd never leave home without it, right? Oh, that reminds me of me being three years old and I had this really cute polka dotted umbrella that I used to take to school or. Oh, that reminds me of this one moment in time where the damn thing didn't work and I got wet. And. And so it's realizing that if we're not going to see eye to eye because of our experiences on that fractal of perspective that I mentioned earlier on Just an Umbrella, now start to think about the complexity and the nuances of our emotional experiences and where we go. And so we are not going to see things eye to eye. That is not the point to what you.

That's not how we're designed. Actually.

It is not how we are designed.

We're not a nodes.

Yeah, no, we're not. It's like it's this opportunity to expand my experiences through the lens of what you've lived through. And that's why we love story. And so if I'm going to put myself in an echo chamber, I become more isolated and alone and more afraid instead of realizing I'm safe in the world as I understand and experience more of it through your eyes and your experiences and your perspective. And that's the gift, right, of being different.

Topaz, I think you kind of, what you just said like settled something in me that I haven't felt in a long time. I think this period of time, you know, like from October of last year until now, it's just been so intense for everybody. You know, everybody in the world has felt this, this intensity. And it's almost like every time that you speak with someone, it's not a conversation, it's a debate where you have to get them to come over to your side because the stakes are high and everyone's stressed and everyone. The world is moving so fast and we don't have time and all of this, that we're all. We've all been duped to think, you know, it's like we've lost the slowness and the beauty of life where we can just talk and connect with each other. And the way that you just described it, it's so simple, but it's so true. You don't have to prove anything. You don't have to convince anyone of anything. All you have to do is share, share how you're feeling. Because when we try to get the other person to come to our side. We're not experiencing connection.

We're just.

We're just yelling. We're just talking. We're just, like, sharing everything we know. And we think we're getting it right, and we're nailing all the points, but we're not taking any time to enjoy the beauty of being a human. So thank you for sharing that.

Yeah, it's beautiful. Three things come up for me. That was beautiful, Brooke. Thank you. I think one is just on this meditation retreat. And the masters, the yogi, he said something. You probably heard this. You heard the thing about, like, why do you couples who are fighting, yelling so loud because they feel. They feel so far apart have to yell that? Like, what if we whispered even though we disagreed? And the other one is, have I done the thing with the coin with you guys? The quarter. I would do this when I go to classes. Like schools, high schools, or. You know, it's like, I get. Say this is. I have a 10 pesos here, but let's just say it's a quarter, right? And I hold it up to you. I say, hey, Tom, what do you see? He says, I see a quarter, right? And then I asked the other kid, me, on the opposite side, hey, Topaz, what do you see? I'm looking at the other side of the quarter. I say, what do you see? I said, I see a quarter. So we both see a quarter, right? Okay, cool. But, Tom, what do you see on the quarter? He looks. I see George Washington's head or an eagle. Topaz, what do you see? I see. I see an eagle, right? Like, I don't. I'm having a 10 pesos. I don't. I don't remember what's on the quarter, but, like, yeah, yeah, there's two sides of a quarter, and one is an eagle and one is a George Washington's head. Wait a second. You both see a quarter, but Tom, you see an eagle, and Topaz, you see George Washington's head. So who's lying? That's good. Who's lying? Well, neither of us are lying. We see different things. It just brings a mind. When you talk about fractals. It's like we all see we're all looking and maybe at the same thing, but we see different angles to it. And it doesn't mean we're wrong. It also doesn't mean we're necessarily right. And because it doesn't, if I'm right, then it means that only my opinion can be right. No, we could all be right. Wait, how could we all be right? Well, I think that's part of the conversation. And the other thing too is I have a lot of friends on both sides, if you will. I have friends who are like really distraught and scared and worried and doing a lot of things to protect their families or to protect do plan Bs or you know, are having break breakdowns, anxious breakdown. And then I have other friends in community who are excited, like this is gonna be the best Pax Americana. And I just think to both it's like, I don't think it's going to be as bad as you think it's going to be. And I also think it's not going to be as good as you think it's going to be.

Yeah.

You know, and I think that both sides, if you look at the elections, in my opinion, it's like, look, both sides were telling things that were true and both sides were telling things that were false, you know, And I don't think it's a clear cut. I think that's a natural stage of where we are at with the rate of change that we're having. The rate of change that we are going through in humanity is insane. It's not, it's just, it's. It's unlike anything before.

It's like light speed.

It's light speed and it's only getting fast.

And I think the rate and the areas of life that is, that is being changed, none of us alive have ever, I mean in every area of our life is to change. So the things that we said, well that's going to change out there, but no, we'll be good here. No, no, no. It's literally changing every facet of our life. So back to like, we got to get a new recipe. Because what we used to think that that's gone the good old days are now to however we can make them for ourself.

Yeah, we're here now, so. Yeah, we're here. The rate of change. So when you have such a high rate of change, then you're going to have a lot of friction because it's a high rate of change. If I build a house that's part metal, steel and part wood, when it gets hot, the steel adjusts differently than the wood. When it gets cold and, and wet, the wood adjusts differently is, creates a change. A rate of change applies to the different subsystems of the. The greater part. And right now the rate of change in technology and everything is changing. So the subsystems of our culture and our finances and our politics Creates more gaps because they're changing at different rates. And therefore we are experiencing this conflict and we're experiencing this incoherence and I think they should just be aware of it. You know, it's like if you look at your son who's 4 years old and your daughter who's 2, and they're crying and they're acting all over the place and they're demanding and they're doing pee pee in their bed and they're not, you know, it's an age, you know, they'll grow out of it so you're not as stressed. But we, if we look at our society right now, we are going through that change where society is just flip flopping left, right peepee here, yelling, you know, throwing tantrums and we're like, wait, what's going on? It's like, no, this is a phase that we're in and it's, it's, you know, in a phase of humanity, it could be 100 years, could be 50 years. At the rate of change, it's probably going to be shorter only because the rate of change is so high that we will kind of find balancing mode. Because we get so used to this change. Like we, so we're so good at a customize to adapting to change that we soon take it for normal. None of us can remember what it was like before cell phones. And we lived 20, 30 years without cell phones. And now we can barely imagine doing work without cell phones or without email. It's like how did that even exist? But we exist. So imagine the new generations, they take it for granted. It's always there. They're going to respond differently. We're in that phase and the question is, what are we doing about it? Like, what are you bringing to the relationships in your life? We don't have to solve the problem, but how are we showing up? I'm sure like you have a couple who are in our friendship or family that are having a huge conflict and turmoil. Is it so much about them solving it or is it about how they show up in that turmoil? That's what that tells you. A lot more about the relationship and about the individuals than it does about, you know, their ability to come to a resolution. It's more about how we handling it together.

It's not so much about the circumstances that are happening around us. It's more about how we show up and share those circumstances emotionally with each other. And if we can just hear it and validate the experiences that each of us are having, then that will Be the way through. And it's never failed me. I want to just ask you on your set, you know, when you get people just to share and understand the other side of the perspective, like, I love your analogy of your quarter. To really get to a place, well, here's what I'm seeing and what I'm experiencing. What are you seeing and what are you experiencing? Then we see the whole of the quarter. Otherwise, we're just saying one side versus the other, and then we can very easily pitch ourselves against each other. And so I think it's. It's helpful for us to sometimes, and I have to remind myself of this, quite honestly, that when I am feeling like somebody isn't understanding where I'm coming from, well, then if I can get insightful and endeavor to show up in a place where I can just ask them to help me see what they're seeing, then it helps me see more of the picture. I don't want to negate the humanity there. This isn't about getting perfect, because when somebody doesn't see what I see, that can be very threatening. That can spike a lot of emotion. But if in those moments, we can just remember, look, let me just take a breath. It's okay. They're having a different perspective than I am. If I understand their perspective, then I can understand the whole, or at least more of the whole. And then I'll have the opportunity to share what I'm seeing too. And it's in that exchange that the connection happens, that bonding happens. It's not the solutions. It's not the answers. It's not who did it right and who did it wrong, which is where our conversations tend to go. It's about the exchange of information so that we can say what it is I need to say to feel heard, but then I can also listen long enough to get that coming back the other direction. It's the listening part that's going to challenge the heck out of us.

You know, it's the listening part that's going to challenge us. Is that what you said?

Yeah.

We want to step in and correct the narrative, right? We want to step in and challenge the person. No, no, no, that's not what I see. No, no, no. That's not what happened. No, no, no. Let me tell you what's appropriate. It's. It's not any of that. So our ability to listen is really the harder part in the exchange of. Of sharing.

That's why I always say we always acknowledge the vulnerability of the person sharing. We also need to Acknowledge the vulnerability of the person listening. If I'm listening to your point of view that I disagree with and I don't jump in and I allow you to finish and I actually play back what I'm hearing you so you feel seen, that's also an act of vulnerability on my part. Because maybe what you're saying makes a suggestion of my own beliefs or my own response of our relationship and my participation in that relationship and the dynamic. But if I just sit in that go, okay, I'm thank you for sharing that. Then I'm sharing because you're sharing and it's vulnerable for you. But at the same time, the person holding the space without coming in to fix, without coming to correct, but to hold the space and allow you to voice it and to give you a sense of being seen, because they see you, they listen to you, there's also vulnerability in that. The one holding the space. And we should acknowledge that more often. We should acknowledge that. We go, thanks for hearing me. Thanks for seeing me. Right? Because then it's like, okay, then we're starting to create a space which is safe in our discomfort. And that's what we need, is more of a culture of that. And the reason we don't see that is because the content spreads through fear. Fear and fury sped seven times faster than peace. The things of humanity. This is a proven. Hear this all the time. I think that creates fear and like anger and fans, it just, it gets seven times more engaging. And if you're making content on all the social media feeds or TV or anything, you're looking for views. And if you know that you make one piece of content that can reach seven times more people because it's fear and fury, you're going to do fear and fury. You're not going to do humanity. You're not going to do the listening. You won't be able to compete. And so what going back to like, what are we practicing? What are you listen or practicing in terms of the content you listen to when you're scrolling through Tick Tock and Instagram, where do you spend, where do you spend more of those seconds watching? Is it those moment of humanity or is it those moments of parts of humanity that are the darker sides that are more attractive and that's where the algorithms are driving us? Because it just. That's a native intuitive. Part of being human is like, you're drawn to the conflict and the rage and the da da. But the part of humanity is the part that's elevated, in my opinion, and that's where we need to spend more of our attention. And that's what I think, you know, for us at the Skin Deep. I'm going to toot our own horn. But we always edit our content. Not for the fear and fury, because enough of that out there. Yes, you know, we cut it because there's a lesson here. And if that means a hundred people see it and not 10,000, all right, so be it. But those hundred people will be more positively affected by it. It hopefully has a nicer ripple effect than the 10,000 who watch fear and Fury because we got enough of that out there. And you know, what are the. What just as like as content creators, what are we making? Can we exist in that economic model if we're not spreading seven times faster? Can we exist in that and then as individual consumers, viewers. What are you watching? What are you eating? No, you know, what are you, what are the things you're eating that fuel you? And God knows it's much easier for me to eat chocolate than it is for me to eat broccoli. I mean, I love, but I'm like, you know, I got to be conscientious of it and at least own it. At least own it. I'm eating too much chocolate, you know, so be it. I'm watching too much tik tok that that's why my feed is like this or that's where the feed is driving me. And it also makes me think of, it's a lot easier to control someone in fear. Right, we know that. But I just, having children, it's like clear. Like when my kid is scared of the dark, he runs in me and is attached to me and he'll do whatever I say because he's scared of the dark. When he's not scared of the dark, he's just running all over the place, running the crack. I gotta chase after him. It's like, whoa, whoa, whoa. So you know, we had, we one time had come over and the kid was running around and she goes, no, no, don't go outside. There's big bad wolves outside. And the two year old, my two year old son was like big pack wolves. And he didn't go outside. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. Hold on a sec. We are not gonna make your job easier. My aunt. So you don't have to chase after our kid because you're creating fear that's not real. But now you can control them better. On the flip side, what is society doing to us as individuals? It's much easier to control us when we're scared, you know, than having the courage to be open up, to look, to see different options. I mean, I think, I think it's like conscientiousness, man. We're in the flood of change right now and we're wondering, like, is flood good or bad? It doesn't matter. We're getting wet. Like, what are we doing in the boats? Yeah, what are we doing?

And all sides. It doesn't matter what side you're on or even if we're talking about politics. Every form of media is keeping us divided and scared. And it's working.

I mean, I tell you, when I watch the different, I don't know how, but I see different forms of content and I basically hear two sides of the same coin. Like the language of the left uses for the right is very, and the sentiment and then tone and the fear. It's very similar from the right on the left. It also just makes me think of how do you get people to go see Marvel action movie number four, five, six, the sequel, any big sequel. How do you get the audience to go, well, we already know it's Spider Man. We know the character, we know the story. Why am I going to go see Spider Man 2? Okay, I saw Spider Man 2. Why am I going to see Spider Man 3? Because every sequel, there's a bigger, badder enemy. Every election cycle, in order to get us out to vote, there's got to be a bigger, badder, higher stake enemy. And if you look at the election language for the last 50 years just.

Seems to get, you know, ramped up off the charts.

All of democracy is at stake. So what's the next one to get us out to vote? What has to get. We are training ourselves that we only show up to things when there's high, which is a natural human instinct, more states, but we're being manipulated to that instead of having, you know, I live in Uruguay and I live here because as soon as Trump beat Hillary, I wasn't just noticing that, like no one's listening to each other. That's the problem. In my opinion, regardless of who on, no one's listening to each other. And it's no longer about facts, it's about your own story. So that is problematic. And so it's very hard for society to manage challenges if they don't listen to each other because then they don't see the different points of views, they don't see the opportunities, they don't see what different people are saying and where the opportunity is. That's problematic having children, I went to look for options. I now live in Uruguay. As of a year ago, their elections two weeks ago, on a Saturday, the elections already happened. But it was a transference of power. Very small society as the population, super small. So it's much easier to maintain this kind of community when you have, for the most part, a homogeneous community and it's a very small population. So I'm not saying this is, you know, possible for all countries, but I'm just saying the transfer of power was peaceful, was kind. The president got in his old car that he drove before he became president, before he looked to the other president, the new president, who's from the other side, from the left. So the party from the right was leaving and the party in the left was coming in. And he looked at him, he says, whatever you need, I'm at your service. And he got. Because what's important is the country and the welfare of the people.

Yeah.

And like, we are all in service to that. And Uruguay hasn't lost that. At least my impression is that it hasn't. And I think, I think we can get back there. I think we. If anybody can do it, I think the US can do it. And I think there's a lot of forces at play that, that, like this show, like this conversation, that, that, that want to do that and that are conscientious of that and our. I mean, even though I live in Uruguay, all my work, my content is in the U.S. it's not like I've left. I'm still in the conversation, you know, I'm still participating, I'm still contributing. And I think America is a lighthouse in the world. And I think it's important for us to contribute to that as it is for every American.

Topaz, when you are on set at the end and there's a couple or a conversation happening where you can clearly see that they're at a roadblock and they are not able to pass this one thing that they disagree on. Is there questions that you suggest that they ask to kind of see the situation, you know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah. I would do a question that puts them in the other person's shoes and then either end it with, like, justify why the other person is doing that, or give them advice. So it would be like, what do you think is the hardest thing? Being your partner and what is your advice for me in regards to that? Or what would be your advice in regards to that? That's like, I put. You're put. I'm putting you in My shoes. And then I'm asking for advice or when is the last time you feel I was disappointed in something you did? And why do you think I was? So in terms of your Thanksgiving and you're wondering why your brother in law voted for Trump or loves Trump so much or your mom or your dad or whatnot, what is it? What are the things that led you to have your point of view? Or what is it that you see that I don't understand? And why do you think that is, you know? Or where do you. Where do you think we have the same values and concerns for our country, but yet see different angles on it? And why do you think that is?

That's really good.

I mean, yeah, love that part of the space is the awareness that we don't have to get to an answer. We can have a disagreement, it's okay. And then asking questions that reinforce that space of safety, albeit disagreements, you know, that that's really helpful. And then, you know, you know, what's the thing I misunderstand about your point of view? That if I did, I would resonate more with you. Your brain is an AI tool, has no emotions. It's just gonna search for the best answer. So like it's gonna search for the best answer even if you never thought about it. We do the ad, we like a beautiful one. I think I mentioned on the last show, but I just did it last time and it was great. What's the beautiful thing in me that enables the special thing in you? Oh, that's really good. So then the brain is like, whoa, hold on a sec. Okay. What's a beautiful thing in me? And we own. A lot of us are tough on each other, so we. That takes a while. What is the beautiful thing in me? Okay, wait. But then it enables the special thing in you. It's like it's making the. Requiring the brain to thread a thin needle in the scope of our relationship. And then just by doing that, it reminds you of something special about your relationship, but it created a thread in the quilt of our love. What is the beautiful thing in me that enables a special thing in you? And you can see people haven't thought that question, but they, their brain will go searching. Man.

One of the questions that you just said, I think you named like eight or ten of them. I would say almost a hundred percent of the population of this world has never asked any of those before. So just think how, what a great tool that is when you're at an impasse in your relationship or a friendship or Just an argument where you can't. You're at the point where you can't see anything good about the person sitting across from you because you're just so mad or you're just so. You're just frustrated asking a question like that. What a gift. It totally brings you back to why you are even there in the first place.

You know, I have to ask you this. So I wrote this down earlier. I have to believe what you create for people. Perhaps they've never experienced this. Do you hear from people like, God, Topaz, is there a way that I can recreate what I experienced and felt when you brought me and my father child? You know, it's always that, like, we go to this epic experience and then we leave it and we think, God, how do I bring more of that into my life? I have to believe you hear that. I mean, just what you're sharing makes me want to.

Haven't you read the book? I mean, that's what the book has. That's my plug for the book. It's like when they say that. Well, because this last few we had, we did two days where it was kind of like another community that don't know this kin deep. They just thought they were coming to do a production because we were working with partners. So they, they brought the participants and it was just amazing. At the end they're like, wow, this is amazing. Can I take these questions home? Like, you know, we have 15 different editions that you could take home and, and like, how does this work? This was amazing. I'm like, well, this works every time because there's a science to the questions and there's an art to the sequence and there's a conscientiousness around the space and you can get in 12 questions for love. And that's what I'm learning now. You know, I'm turning 49 in May and I feel. And you know, I'm looking at the new mountain horizons because I've kind of found my groove, my offering. I have my children and I have a home. So what's the next mountain range that I'm going to explore? And I think it's this, because what I feel is obvious to me is not obvious to others. And that's the value of how do you create the space and how do you ask well constructed questions that reinforce that space of safety, albeit uncomfortable, to discover the magic, the fractals that overlap, like. And that's kind of the new. Yeah, for sure. And I, and I just noticed, I mean, you bring in Pairs. So now we had a few pairs that never known the end. And you see, like, they don't play the card game. They don't. And you see what happens when the more challenging questions come up. Their hands get sweaty, their palms get sweaty. They go much quicker over the answer and the question. There's a lot more unsaid versus, you know, we have pairs that come in with the. And. And they just can talk for three hours. I mean, they're like practice, you know, and they just go in with, I have to go, hey, hey. You only have an hour. You're gonna have to like, try to find the real. You know, it's interesting to see that. And I guess it's like putting the tools in people's hands. So if you're listening now, you're like, okay, great. Well, what's the tools? The tools is create the space, which really means you want to articulate your intention where you're coming from with the awareness that you don't know where you're going to get end up at. Right? Because that means you're curious. That means like we are starting together the beginning. Not we're not saying, I'm at the end and I'm waiting for you to get there because that's not safe. Why do I even want to get to the end where you're at? I don't know if I want to go there. But if we start here. Okay, I can start here. Because we don't know where we're going and we're both on the journey together. Okay, so what's the intention? That's the beginning. What, why are we here? What's the context? Okay, now let's ask well constructed questions that reinforce that space. And how do you do that? And you can do that. And that puts people in experience of growth because they're uncomfortable and yet they're taking responsibility for the conversation. I just heard a quote which was. It was really interesting. He said, like, you have your life destiny. It's going to happen no matter what. But if you're responsible for it, you grow from it. And I'm still meditating on that. But there's something about responsibility, which I think some. That pertains to. All right, I'm going to listen to you. I'm going to be responsible for creating the space to listen to you, which can be vulnerable for me. So it's nice when you acknowledge that. But I'm going to create that space with you. Because in this world of where the rate of change is so high, therefore the conflict and the tension is greater. It's not about us resolving it, because there's just going to be another conflict. There's going to be another problem. It's about our ability to weather that storm together.

Yeah.

And that's what we should practice. Should practice that. Not the answers. Right. Because the answers are changing all the time.

I love that.

I think you have. Topaz, I think you have. Kind of the big overarching question of this whole episode is, how do we create connection with people that we disagree with or that we feel disconnected to because of what's going on? You have the answer. It's all in the question. We think we have to come to these conversations with just these fixed thoughts and just yell them at each other and. No, I believe this. How could you possibly believe this? It goes against what I believe. It's not about that. It's about asking the questions that can create the connection between us, that show us where we come together. Yeah, that's it.

Yeah. Yeah. Topaz, you need to come in and do a workshop for My Better Love Club community on how to formulate questions to help us create this place. We got to set that up. My people, meaning Brooke or I. Or Tom will call your people.

I mean, Anthony from our team is amazing. He's.

Yes.

Getting so many outreach now. I feel like.

Yeah.

Things. Yeah.

Well, I just have to. Stacy and I watched the incredible experience between you and your dad.

Which one? The first one or the second one or both?

The second one.

Both. We've watched both.

So. So will you. Will you. Will you be okay if I die or. I have no regrets.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think it was to have no regrets, but, I mean, I. I felt like a lot of things were uncovered in that between you and your dad.

Really just.

I mean, I just was.

I mean.

I mean, I don't know much about it, you know, just based on reading your bio and, you know, you're getting to be. Yeah, but I mean, it just. We're just a couple things. Maybe that for you.

What.

What was uncovered. I mean, number one, takes a lot of courage to have you and your dad, you know, be profiled on your.

You know, publicly, like. Well, yeah. Have to. You can't just talk. You got to walk it too.

Well, well said. So any. Any particular special Ven.

I mean, look. I mean, we did one. Was it six, I think that was released two years ago. And then the one before was. Was five years prior, so that's seven years ago. And then we have a new one coming out Soon, I think around Father's Day. And my dad and I have a really good relationship. I think in the beginning of the regrets, when he said he. There's like a joke, he's like, no, it's like, who had the deal with treat us is like, who has the last word or something.

Yeah.

That's exactly what it true in my. He's a beautiful soul. Because he's 87 and he's still curious. He takes responsibility for, like, I can have a real conversation with him where he'll say, okay, yeah, you're right, that is on my part. Or, okay, I can. It's hard to get there with my dad, but it's there. And that's where I know I'm engaging with someone that's real. And I definitely take responsibility for my actions, because then I. Then do we. Like when I just realized when I was a young. I don't know when my 20s or 30s, like, when I stopped. When I. Okay. When I realized that I'm an. Sometimes I then took the energy away from pretending that I'm not an. All the energy I spent pretending that I'm not an asshole and just accepted like, okay, yeah, sometimes I'm an asshole and took that energy instead of spending it on pretending I'm not an asshole, spend it on changing the. Sometimes I'm an asshole. I'm actually changing. Where are you expending your energy? Because every moment in time energy is fixed. So where are you expending the energy? If you disagree with someone and there's actually something they say that is actually resonate with you instead of just disagreeing because that's been your identity, you're like, you know what? That resonates for me. That's interesting. Let me explore that.

Ooh.

And then when they see you take that pivot, it creates the opportunity for them also disentangle their opinion from their identity. So.

Right.

It creates the safety. It creates the safety for other people to do it too. I always say that. It's so important.

Yeah. And I just think we don't. Our lead. Our leaders don't do that. Our leaders, our culture leaders. You know, what's the stuff? Everything we see. And like, it's like people are attached to their positions and they. And we don't. And we, like, don't allow them to change.

Yeah.

Or repent or like, what is that about? And I just think it's a normal part of humanity that we. The human experience that you grow, you learn, you change your opinion. You know, are we taking responsibility for it.

Yeah, we should think it's weird that they don't do that. We should think it's weird that they don't change their opinions because that means they're not growing. Like it's very important.

We don't want to make it though. Everybody has to grow because not everybody is on a place.

Yes, I can.

Right.

But you know what I'm saying.

Yeah, it's an opportunity. I think it's just an opportunity like many others that come into our life where we can step into that opportunity or not. And I, I gotta crack up because I use the asshole analogy all the time. If I, if I believe you're an asshole and I gather evidence to support that you're an. How am I showing up? Probably like an don't wanna have sex with you. I don't wanna have sex with you. Not gonna think about cooking dinner or certainly don't wanna have a conversation with you. Right. And so then how do we engage? At the end of the day, I treat you like an and you treat me like an asshole. And then we're actually having a conversation and a debate really, about who's the bigger.

Right.

And it's not going to take us anywhere. You're right. Stepping into these conversations and these questions to help us find the common spaces between us and taking responsibility for the fact that, you know what, you're right, I'm an asshole. That is our way through. I call that our get out of jail free card. Like, if I can just say, you know what? I was an asshole in that moment, wasn't I? And everybody can go, yep, yep, sure enough, thumbs up on that one.

I think I learned that from a super early age because my mom, single mom raising us, my parents are divorced, so spend half the time with my mom, all the weeks with my mom, we ends with my dad. But the weeks when my mom, you know, she would pick us up from school, drive us home, drop us off, then she'd go back to work, she'd come back home at 8 or 9 at night. So we like make our own dinner. And that was, that was my brother and I's lifestyle. Because my mom had to work, we're only allowed to watch one hour of tv. But clearly when my mom was out of the house, when was it when the, when the fox is gone, like she can play but like, like my mom's gone. Like we watch TV like the whole time, you know, like, are you kidding me? And then my mom would come home and she'd be like, did you watch tv. And clearly I'd lie through my teeth and then there'll be a whole conversation like this or that. And then one day I just realized, okay, hold on a sec. What if I just own it? Did you watch tv? Yes. And I realized, okay, what now? Like that now like we're gonna get to a resolution quicker. We're gonna talk. Like, it was just so much easier to deal with what is than for putting up a front of what is not.

That's really well said. And how about the free up of. Of bandwidth that you do when you just come clean? My gosh. I mean, talk about the weight of the world off your shoulders.

Absolutely. I mean, absolutely. Absolutely.

Well, Topaz, I want to be respectful of your time. I mean, we could. We could stay here and have to.

Come over for dinner soon where I just realized that we're.

We're.

The thing is that we're us four. We're in our own echo chamber. Yeah, we are.

Yeah.

So that's.

That's true.

That's interesting.

Would you agree that connection doesn't mean agreement, but it means recognizing the humanity in each of us and that each of us are having our own perspective and our own experience. And it's actually the cross pollination of those experiences that helps us expand and understand ourselves and each other and the space between us better. Like, really? I guess if I were to sum it up right. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Awesome.

What? That was amazing. You didn't even read that, did you just make that up right now?

Wow.

Yeah. Yeah. 100. That was on point. That was wonderful. I agree with that.

So to help you, if you need some tools with this, then I'm going to encourage you to check out Topaz's book. He's mentioned it here, but it's called the 12 Questions for Love. And as he said, he has 15 conversation decks.

Not just one.

And I, I just want to reiterate this. I use these on my practice because they help us. I end all my sessions with a question that's pulled from the deck and I have this fun little game that I play with my couples. Okay, everybody choose a number from one to, you know, however many card numbers are in the deck. And so then I'll count them down and this is our question. And so it's turned into a fun way to end our sessions on that place and space on. And my clients have come back and said, hey, I've been ruminating on that question for days now. I've thought about all these different answers to the question as well. So it's incredible. And I really do want to talk with you about coming into doing a workshop in our community. I think that would be such an incredible experience for me and the people that we support there. And then if you are one of those people who feel like you want to strengthen your connection in your lives and you need to learn some principles and skills like. Like we're needing to scale up, we're needing to understand some bigger, broader principles, many of which we've touched on here today. And if that's the case, then I invite you to check out our Better Love Club, where you can come and join Tom and Brooke and I inside of the Better Love Club and we can support and ramp you up in some of those skills and places and get to hang out with really great people like Topaz, with us, our family, our follow. The fun today is have a conversation with someone who has an opposing view and. And maybe let's start simple. Yeah, maybe the conversation of politics and some of these bigger things where we're feeling discord between us are too big right now on your own. But what about things like a favorite food or. Or a book or a movie where we have polarizing views and perspectives in regards to some of the things that you enjoy and some of the things that I enjoy. This would be a great place to step in and ask a question, you know, of. Help me understand why you like this and how does it resonate with you and what is it about me that you see that resonates with me? So that we can cross exchange and Topaz. You could probably frame that question a lot better than I just did with your expertise, but I'm trying to help you, our listener, step into. You can do this. It's not hard. And we can start with simple things, you know, like those five pounders. Because we do the same five pounders. Like, what's your favorite food, your movie, your book? The things that you're impassioned with as we do some of the bigger, heavier things as we skill up and get better at these emotional push ups that make our armpits sweaty. And so, babe, I just gotta ask you, you know, help me understand why it is you feel like you need to put so much cinnamon on your cereal. And the fact that you put cinnamon on your cereal is just disgusting. But. Okay, that's my perspective. I want to understand what you think it does for you. Good.

A good dose of cinnamon on my cereal. That. That's a good life right there. That's. That's a good moment.

I'M with Tom. Drop the cinnamon, man.

I just.

It's just.

That's just like. That's just good things. That's just some cinnamon and a good bowl of granola, man. I mean, life is good, you know?

Yeah. What do you need?

And I. I thought for our song today. Topaz, what do you think about this? You know what came to me as I was putting this episode together is Jimmy Cliff's I can see clearly now the rain is gone.

Yeah, that's good.

I can see all obstacles in my way. I know it's an oldie, but I. I think it might apply. What do you think?

I didn't know we get to do what. How come this is the first time I hear you singing duet? Why did it take 3? 3 podcast interviews are finally hearing you sing together. What? It took so long. Well, we can't give you all of.

Our stuff because you won't come back.

They're the Disney couple.

Thank you so much for being with us here in the Love Shack today. And thank you so much, Topaz, for your conversation and your presence and. And your essence and your contributions to this conversation. It means so much. Thank you so much. I adore you more and more as we spend more and more time together. So thank you so much. It's a pleasure. And thank you, listener, for spending time with us here in the Love Shack today. I hope that you've heard something that you can take away, that you. You can implement into your life right now, today. Come on back next week as we aim to share more of these thoughts, strategies, a place of calm, a place of support and peace where we together can navigate through the ups and downs of life that we are facing and the challenges of day to day. We send you off with a ton of love and a big virtual hug and look forward to spending more time with you next week. Bye bye for now.

All right, it's time to leave the Love Shack. But before we part ways, we want you to know our door is always open and we'll leave the porch light on. Ready to welcome you back whenever you need a dose of relationship wisdom. For more resources and tools, Visit us at loveshacklive.com to dive deeper into the topics we've explored and find additional support for your relationship journey. Stay connected by subscribing to our podcast. Thank you for being part of our Love Shack live community.