Sometimes What Hurts the Most Can’t Be Seen. And what helps the most… anyone can do.

Hey, thanks for coming. Welcome to the Love Shack.

Hey, welcome to the Love Shack. It's a little old place where we can get together and explore some fresh perspectives, eavesdrop on some juicy conversations and uncover some mysteries that nobody talks about, but absolutely influence our relationships. If you're struggling in your marriage, just starting out in a new relationship, or are single and looking to do better next time, this is the show for you. My name is Stacey Bartley, and I'm here with my co host and lover, Tom. And together for the past decade, we have been teaching and loving on people from around the world with the sole purpose of helping individuals and couples to love more and fear less in their relationships, both with themselves and others.

And a quick shout out to all of our listeners, whether you're listening live or on a podcast, we sure appreciate that we live, excuse me, we air live every Thursday at 1pm on our wonderful station 1150 KKNW up in Seattle. And then I bring this up in case you can't show up and ask us a question live. It's all good, you know, everything is uploaded into the podcast directories. You can also text us a question if you're not able to make it. Should I give out those details right now?

Sure, sure. And yeah, go ahead because I'm kind.

Of the detail guy again. You can call live at 425-373-5527 or if you'd like to text us a question, even right now or ahead of time or after the fact. 601-207-0080.

Bottom line, wherever you are in this moment, thank you so much for listening in. It's great to be here together with you. And today on the show, Tom and I are going to be joined by David's Wood Bartley. He'll be sharing his personal story of mental wellness. To mental wellness. You're going to come away with an understanding of how mental illness fills what's its causes, and some simple actions that you can take to support loved ones and bring out the most important feeling of all for all of us, which is the feeling of hope. After all, David means it when he says the challenge of mental health is complex, but the solution is actually quite simple. And pull. We'll be right back in a minute.

Are you tired of sitting on a couple's counselor's couch and feeling like you're just rehashing the past and making no progress? Do you feel like you're holding on to your relationship but panicked you're losing your partner? It's time to learn how to deepen your connection. Finally, resolve the arguments that keep coming up. Understand yourself and your partner and create the level of intimacy you've been dreaming of. It's time for love to tingle your toes again. Schedule your private session with relationship expert stacy bartley@staceybartley.com checkup.

Ready to learn the most important thing you can do to revitalize your relationship today? Go to Stacybartley.com fairydust stacybartley.com fairydust this is the number one thing Stacy teaches her VIP clients that has the power to improve them Health of your relationship Today learn how sprinkling a little fairy dust in your relationship can stop arguments in their tracks. Rekindle your spark and take your difficult conversations from the struggle bus to easy street.

Do you feel like your love life is on life support? It's time for a turbocharged relationship resuscitation with an alternative to marriage counseling. Head over to Stacey Bartlett to learn more about their proprietary programs their clients use to save their relationships. S-T A C I B A R T L E Y.com visit stacybartly.com today going our own way every day alternative talk 1150.

Hey, welcome back. So today we're going to be talking about sometimes what hurts the most can't be seen. And interestingly enough, what helps the most? Anyone can do. Mental health challenges don't look a certain way and they certainly affect people in all demographics and in all parts of their lives. And what do you do when someone you love finds themselves struggling with a mental health challenge? I mean, what are the best ways to be there for them and not become exhausted and resentful yourself and thinking to yourself, because I've been there. Why can't you just pull it together for God's sakes? The reality is that much lies behind a person's forced smile and a distracting joke or the appearance of a perfect life. And so I want to introduce our special guest today, David Wood Spartley, and he's a mental health advocate and is a member of the national alliance of Mental Illness and the International association for Youth Mental Health. David also holds certifications in mental health, first aid for adults and youth, SafeTalk, which is suicide awareness for everyone, and the suicide prevention techniques known as qpr, which stands for questions, persuade and Refer. David has presented to audiences across the United States and around the world, delivering speeches and workshops on the topics of mental health, suicide awareness, cultural leadership and the life saving powers of connection. He's a TEDx speaker. He's presented to organizations as the United Such as, by the way, the United States Food and Drug Administration, the Army Corps of Engineers, Fortune 500 companies, OSHA India, universities across the nation, law enforcement agencies and community organizations. Long story short, he's a really cool guy and I have the privilege and opportunity of calling him also my brother. So if I slip up on this broadcast and call him Woody, know that Woody and David are the same person. Just so that doesn't confuse our listeners. So, David, say hello. Welcome to the show. It's such a get to to have you here.

Hi sis. Hi Tommy. And what an honor to to be on the show and to support the incredible and courageous and forward edge leading work that the two of you don't just do right now, but have been doing for the last 10 years.

Thank you. And Woody, I'm not going to waste a lot of time here because I want listeners to hear your very, very powerful story. So if you would please share it with us, whatever you feel inspired to jump into.

So thank you. And I'll begin with August 31, 2011. And I am pretty certain that nobody remembers that that was a Wednesday. So for most people, it's just a typical hump day. The most significant thing for most people was they were on the downhill side once day closer to the forthcoming Labor Day weekend. But for me, this particular day was anything but average, anything but ordinary. And in fact, it was a day like I had never had. Because August 31, 2011, was the day that I was going to kill myself. This is the day that the monster, which is what I call clinical depression, mental illness. This was the day that he finally convinced me of a series of dark and awful lies. The most damning was that I believe not just as a passing thought, but I truly believed it as 100% real. That I was weak and stupid and pitiful. That I was ugly and grotesque. That I was useless. That I was worthless. That I had become an embarrassment and a burden to my then wife, Deanna, my family and my friends. And most damning was on that day that the monster convinced me of the most horrific lie. That if I killed myself, everybody in my life would be better off. And so I remember very clearly waking up on that day and here in Northern California, where we live, just outside of Sacramento, the end of August, there is no chance of rain. There are no clouds in the sky. And I remember walking outside and Dee and I were living about 20 minutes further east from here and this little hamlet that I call Penryn on this beautiful two and a half acre parcel. And I remember Very clearly looking up at the sky. And it was if Michelangelo had painted another version of the Sistine Chapel and the beautiful work that he is most famous for. And I remember, I think back now and was like my mind was taking snapshots, some sort of mental image to take with me whatever would happen after I ended my life. And I then went back inside, sat down at the computer, typed out my suicide note, and then without telling anybody where I was headed, got in my red Dodge Dakota pickup truck and made the short 20 minute drive from our home in Penryn to the Forest Hill Bridge. Now, most everybody, of course, knows the San Francisco Golden Gate Bridge. Almost nobody knows the Forest Hill Bridge. The Forest Hill Bridge is in fact the fourth tallest bridge in the country. At 730ft. It is 500ft further off the ground than its more famous cousin two hours to the west. And it's an important point that on this day, while I was moving towards the actual function, the putting the act into motion, the important point to note is that this was not the first time I had thought about suicide. And in fact, suicide is almost never spontaneous. And I had been plagued with suicidal ideations for as long as the monster had plagued me with this experience of clinical depression. So I had thought about this act. I had imagined this act. I had played it over in my mind literally thousands of times. And so. But this was the day that the whole thing went into motion. And I remember bringing my vehicle to a stop, turning off the ignition and then sitting there for a moment. And then reflexively I put my hands on the 10 and 2 position of the steering wheel, took a deep cleansing breath, opened my eyes, reached over to the passenger seat, grabbed the suicide note that I had typed out, placed that right in the center of the ganache, took the keys out of the ignition, place those in the center of the note, exited the vehicle and then turned slightly to my right just to make sure that the door was unlocked, turned back, crossed over the road, followed the path down to the closest end of the bridge. Now the Forest Hill Bridge, standing perfectly horizontal, it's basically a half a mile long at 2,000ft. If you Google it, the view from either side is spectacular. And it stands more than 700ft above the North Fork of the American River. It is this beautiful, fantastic view. But on that day, I was very intent of just focusing on the light post that stood in the middle of the bridge deck, 1,000ft away. I didn't want to look at the view. I didn't want to make eye contact with the passing drivers. And so instead I just moved one step in front of the other and in time came to the midpoint, turned to my left again, not looking up, but instead looking down at the river and place my body up against the four and a half foot suicide barrier. So it hit me right about mid chest and I focused with all my intention and all my energy on a spot of water in the river. And I then closed my eyes again and I began to rehearse the move up and over the barrier, Tried to imagine what it was going to be like to fall because I had done the calculation, it was going to take me 7 1/2 seconds to fall. And then I literally let out an audible prayer that please God, either have me pass away or pass out before I make impact. I had no thought that I would survive. No one can survive a 700 foot fall. But I didn't want to feel the pain. And I was so captivated, so fixated all these thoughts that I can't tell you how long I was in this space. But thankfully it was long enough for a passing driver to act on a feeling we've all had. This soul looking at me, knowing something's not right with this picture. Picking up the phone, calling 911 and then a heroic Placer county deputy sheriff approached me from the left hand side and initially established contact, which is logistical. And then he created connection, which is life saving because connection creates hope and hope saves lives. I was taken off the bridge to an emergency room and then to a psychiatric hospital where I would spend the next 15 life altering life saving days. And when people found out I was there and why they could not get their head around, because instead of seeing me as clinically depressed and somebody who was plagued by suicidal ideation, somebody who thought truly he was worthless, people saw me as the happy and contented co director of a very large nationally recognized animal sanctuary that I ran with my former beloved Deanna, called A Chance for Bliss. And if you're an animal lover, you would have loved the sanctuary. It was home to as many as 100 animals at any one time. 25 horses, 23 dogs, nine pot bellied pigs, goats and sheep and ducks and geese and bunnies and birds. I know if Noah came back, he would be jealous. It was an extraordinary place. And for an animal to come, they had to fit into one of four very specific categories. Very old, very sick, some sort of special need or the vast majority were at the end of life. And so we did no adoptions. Animals came, they became a resident in their forever home. And so we became known throughout the state and the country, even different parts of the world, as a forever home for these unadoptable companion animals. And on June 2, 2010, we were the COVID story, this huge cover story in the life section, USA Today. I didn't fit the image of somebody who was mentally ill. I didn't fit the image of somebody who was clinically and horrifically depressed. I didn't fit the image when you think of somebody who is suicidal. But probably the most important thing, and you referenced this at the beginning, sometimes what hurts the most cannot be seen. Sometimes great agony and soul crushing despair does indeed lie right behind a forced smile or distracting joke or as you said, sis, a seemingly perfect and ideal life. Who wouldn't want to run an animal sanctuary? And because of that, not even Deanna, because I was a great actor, I hid behind the velocity of taking care of all these animals. Not even Dee knew the precarious place of hopelessness I was as I stood on a dark spot on a tall, Tall Bridge just 14 short runs after the Mountaintop experience. Being in USA Today, but thankfully, divinely, incredibly, my life was saved. And on a day I thought would be my last day alive, it was instead a very, very brand new life. It was the first steps in a journey that continues here nine years later from mental hellness into the experience of our birthright. Mental wellness. Mental health. Mental health is not some privilege of the rich and the famous. Mental health. We are born with the right, the inalienable right to be mentally well, to be mentally healthy, to have the experience of peace of mind. And so I thought I would pause at this moment before I went into the other parts just to see if you had any questions or if you'd like me just to continue to tell you how it feels, because I would be lying. And you know this if, if I were to say in the last nine years I haven't had the bony fingers of the monster around my neck and him breathing in my face. And I'd be lying if I said I've never thought about killing myself again because it still is a struggle. It's still at times incredibly difficult.

And David, what I would love and thank you so much. It always moves me when I hear your story and thank you so much for your courageous bravery and sharing it with all of us so that we know what it feels like for somebody to struggle internally. Because it is true. What hurts the most can't be seen. And if you've taught me anything, Woody, it's that we need to become in a more accepting of supporting the people in our lives that are struggling with this. But it also, on the other side, can become very frustrating for people who don't know what to do and don't know how to support you. And it's been my experience, both personally and professionally, that sometimes we approach it from a place that's not necessarily helpful, that it actually kind of makes sense. The monster worse. Right. Because we're frustrated and don't know what to do and we're scared about the potentiality of what might happen. Right. We don't do a great job of talking somebody off the ledge, so to speak, or even knowing how to engage it. Or we over give and over give and over give to a point. We're exhausted and now I'm mad and I just want you to pull it together. All of which kind of seems to like, you know, feed this monster that's now around your neck. So I would love for you to speak a little bit about that. And maybe you have so many wonderful stories, share a story about how you have taught us to support you better so that this message can go out and that people are struggling to support people who they love and who they want to support and be there for but don't know how, that they'll walk away with some super tips in regards to building a little confidence and capacity and capability in this area.

Absolutely. So I think if I look when I was in the psych hospital, what I became aware of was what was the cause of my condition. So I think for the individuals like me who battle, who suffer from this, it's important to know one, this wasn't our choice, and most important, it's not our fault. And mine was the unfortunate confluence of the inherited genetics of our paternal grandfather who handed his life by suicide. And then our Tom and I, our father, who had suffered horrifically from clinical depression. So because it's a medical condition, and I want you to hear that it's a medical condition, you can inherit a genetic predisposition. But just like any other malady, an inherited tendency doesn't mean it's going to manifest. But when you add trauma into that sort of genetic predisposition, you have almost assured that that soul is going to suffer some sort of mental illness. And for me, the trauma was two things. One, I was very young when our father died. I was only 7. That's trauma enough. But when I was 11, I was twice sodomized and raped by a Boy Scout leader. And so my story, horrific in every way, unfortunately, is not uncommon. And so it's important, I think, for people to understand how these things come about. There'll be a lot of people now who have had some aspect of depression or some other mental illness. And the whole aspect that we're experiencing now with forced isolation and social distancing may move them into a more acute phase. But what I've learned over these years, for us to be, well, it is whole person care. It is care of body, mind and spirit, sleep and diet and exercise, psychiatry, psychology, peer support, medication, some sort of spiritual grounding, and then a purpose, some sort of sense that what you do makes a difference. And it's important, I think, that we know that the individual must take responsibility to do the work. The question that I get asked more than any other is you pose it to a certain degree. I have this person, I know they're suffering and yet they don't want to get help. And what I tell them is the bad news is you cannot drag somebody from hellness to wellness. You can journey with them, you can hold their hand, you can go to a counseling appointment, you can encourage them in all different ways. But ultimately they need to accept the responsibility to do the work, accept where they're at, and then ultimately accept help from other people. And it brings, goes back to the question then, okay, what can we do? And I think of everything that I do imagine self care as a vehicle. Connection is the fuel. And connection I think is so amazing that it comes with three bonuses, three Rs. Reciprocity, release and reinforcement. I know of no more pure form of a reciprocal, mutually beneficial experience than connection. Every time Sis, you and I have one of our talks over the counter in the kitchen, I feel incredible because I feel connected with you. I would imagine you have some modicum of the same feeling. And so it's beneficial, not just for me as part of my self care, but it's also something that I can give away. The other part is in the aspects of connection that I teach. Becoming great with remembering people's name, becoming great with questions, and then becoming great with expressing. We oftentimes have a fear that if. That we're going to say or do the wrong thing with somebody who is suffering from a mental illness. And yet none of those things are ever wrong. So we can be released from that fear. And yet nobody expects us to remember their name. Nobody expects us to have the space to talk freely about us. And nobody expects to go to the mailbox sifting through the junk mail and the notices and to Find that uniquely sized envelope that has a handwritten note. And so those are some of the things that we can do. But I think the single most important thing, and in fact the most direct path we have to overcoming our fears around mental illness is to leverage the power of curiosity to create understanding. The truth is the opposite of fear is not calm. The opposite of fear is understanding. The more we understand, the less we fear. And let me give you a story and I'll set it up like this, that all of us and you both should be holding your hands up. All of us have acted in a way that makes no sense to anybody else. People look at us and say, what's wrong with you? But the truth is, for all of us, there's some sort of invisible internal condition that is driving our behavior, but people can't see it. And it's very easy for us to stand in this passionate place of judgment, and especially when we're angry, especially when the behavior is completely illogical to us and to scream forth at one another and say, what's wrong with you? But indeed, if we can make a slight shift, a slight shift and say, from what's wrong with you to what happened to you. And so let me tell you a quick story. So one of the geese that came to the sanctuary was a goose named Adea, a D I a and we already had Mercy and Grace at the sanctuary when Adea came. And we had a duck named Dave, a mallard who had a bad foot, but he thought he was a goose. And so we had this beautiful pond in the back. And on the first day that Adea came, I placed him on the edge of the ponsis and he looked out with this great intention at Mercy, Grace and Dave. But instead of going into the pond, instead of going into that space that was ideal for him, instead of that, he jumped into the small bathtub sized water trough that was on the edge of the pond that was for the other farm animals to drink out of. We bring a person to the edge of therapy and psychiatry and medication and peer support, all these things that we know have a history of helping people, and yet they jump in that bathtub water trough. Misery that is familiar. So I was frustrated. So I thought that in that first scene I at least had some modicum of patients. And so I took him out. I thought he was stressed, put him right back in that same spot and he jumped back into the water trough and I took him out and he jumped back in. And it took him out and jumped back in. We did it 10 times and I moved along the continuum. And I think we all can do this when we don't understand. That's curious. Now I'm frustrated. I've gotten angry and now you're really pissing me off. And thankfully, Deanna came upon the scene and said, honey, let's just calm down. Maybe there's something we don't know about our new goose. And I'll be honest, I looked at Diana and thought, honey, what is the biography of this goose? Knowing that it's not going to change the situation. Then a horse came up. Adee is in the water trough. And imagine what that interaction is like. And so I'm like, oh my God, my life is coming apart just. And I can get kind of passionate and kind of goofy pretty quick. So Dee comes back and says, well, sweetheart, guess what I found out. Adea, our beloved new goose, was a suburban goose. He had lived his entire life in the small confines of somebody's backyard. A'da had only ever swum in a kiddie pool. A dia had never even seen a pond. We bring a person to the. To the edge of these things that we know would be helpful. And they have no experience and they're overcome with fear. They go back to the familiar space. And I thought, oh my God. So I actually sat down next to the water trough. I have Adea hang swimming in his little thing. I look at Mercy, Grace and Dave and they're doing their thing. And I'm like, man, what a lesson. But here's the beautiful thing about understanding is solutions come up that aren't available on judgment. And I thought, oh my God, I can just get a second water trough. Why didn't I see that before? And then just a few minutes later, Sis, a dia pops out of the water trough he was swimming in, comes over, walks behind me and sits down right next to me on my right hand side. And the only thing that was missing was his right wing reaching out to hold me. Five minutes after that, our beautiful new goose walked back to that same edge that he did at the beginning. And he looked out at Mercy and Grace and Dave. He looked at the water trough, he turned around and looked at me. And then eyes front, stepped forward and swam into the pond. Swam into the presence of Mercy and Grace. And that's the other beautiful thing. When we talk about how can we help a brother or sister who's suffering, let's leverage curiosity. Let's use questions of what and how. Let's say, what does it feel like on your worst days that may seem like a counterintuitive question. But because we avoid these conversations for understandable reasons, people like us need to give air to our thoughts. And if the question is asked with sincerity, with compassion being defined as curiosity without assumption, we can share. And then what's it like when you feel like you want to kill yourself? What's it like all these years? How has this impacted? How has it shaped you? What can I do to help you feel supported? If I just everything down because that creates connection. Connection creates hope, faith, hope and love. We've always been told that love is the greatest. I'd say, dear St. Paul, I disagree. I think it's hopeful.

I love it. So let's take a break here, Woody, and we'll come back and you have another story that I've got to have you share with our listeners as well. Be right back.

Do you feel like your love life is on life support? It's time for a turbocharged relationship resuscitation with an alternative to marriage counseling. Head over to stacybartley.com to learn more about their proprietary programs their clients use to save their relationships. S-T A C I B A R T L E Y.com Visit stacybartley.com today.

Ready to learn the most important thing you can do to revitalize your relationship today? Go to stacybartley.com fairy dust stacybartly.com fairydust this is the number one thing Stacy teaches her VIP clients that has the power to improve the health of your relationship today. Learn how sprinkling a little fairy dust in your relationship can stop arguments in their tracks. Rekindle your spark and take your difficult conversations from the struggle bus to easy Street.

Are you tired of sitting on a couple's counselor's couch and feeling like you're just rehashing the past and making no progress? Do you feel like you're holding on to your relationship but panicked you're losing your partner? It's time to learn how to deepen your connection. Finally resolve the arguments that keep coming up. Understand yourself and your partner and create the level of intimacy you've been dreaming of. It's time for love to tingle your toes again. Schedule your private session with relationship expert Stacy bartley and@staceybartley.com checkup, make it a great day. Keep your dial on Alternative Talk 1150.

Welcome back to the show. We're having a wonderful conversation, a very serious and heartfelt conversation with David Wood Spartley, mental health advocate and Woody, again, I just want to thank you for sharing your story and let's Move this conversation along, because, you know, let's say we do everything that you're suggesting, right? We get curious, we ask questions instead of judging people, you know, we sit down and we actually try and understand where they're coming from. And you suggested that we ask some pretty powerful, intense questions. And people would actually say to me, gosh, Stace, can I really. Can I really ask that? Like, oh, you know, what does it feel like to be suicidal? But let's say I'm doing. Doing my best to be curious and to create all of these things. What happens when it just doesn't appear to be working? Like, I'm doing all the right things. I don't know what else to do. I'm so frustrated. Nothing seems to be changing at all. What kind of insight do you have for us with that?

So I need to tell you another story. So we had this wonderful parrot at the sanctuary named Kia K I A. And Kia had come to us, and she had been abused, neglected by a male figure. So Deanna and I, in our beautiful home that you've seen where the sanctuary was, we had this huge, great room, and then we had this armoire. And so we put Kia's cage on top of it, so she had this commanding view of everything, and then she had this mirror behind her. Really was an ideal situation for all the animals, not including Kia. So Dee was the creator of all the brilliant ways, of all these incredibly magical, transformative ways to treat and to serve these animals. I was really good at picking up poop, and I was the feeder. So I come up to the cage the first time, and as soon as I approach sis, Kia starts to violently shake and then go to the far recesses of the cage. She was just. I was a male, and I represented. She was just completely activated by fear. So that first time, I changed the paper at the bottom. I put in the water, the food, and the nuts. And then I think, okay, you know what? I got good energy. Animals like me, I'm a good person. Tomorrow will be a different day. Go up tomorrow, same thing. Go up the next day, same thing. Go up the next day, same thing. This goes on for a while. No matter what I do in attempting to serve, to heal, to bless this being, this sentient being, nothing seemed to work. We can send text messages. We can ask these questions. We can send people a handwritten note each and every day. And sometimes what happens is there's no visible indication that what we're doing in trying to journey with somebody from hellness to wellness, there can Be the experience of, like, nothing's doing. And then with no feedback, we get frustrated. The great William James says that the deepest principle in human nature is the craving to be appreciated. We're not doing these things to be selfish. But at one point, like, okay, is this making any kind of difference? And so I had the same feeling. And I keep doing this, and everything happens. And then I am ready to quit. I'm ready to say to Dee, sweetheart, you got to handle this one, because I'm obviously making things worse. And she said, no, babe, just keep going. So there's this one particular day. I'm really, quite honestly, I'm not even paying attention. I am, like, in this whole robotic move, and I go up as soon as I approach the cage. Kia does her thing. And I think, poor soul, you know, but you need to trust me, for God's sakes, change the paper. Put my hand in there. And at this point, I'm kind of afraid she's going to strike me. So I put the water in, I put the nuts in, and I go to put the feet in. And I will never forget this. This beautiful being. Turns around, comes from the back of the cage, comes right to the opening and puts her head down. Wanted me to scratch the top of her head. And in that place, she had no ability to strike me with her talent. She couldn't bite me. She wanted me to scratch her head. And it was this, like, oh, my God. And so the question that I pose to people is, do you think trust and confidence and safety was created in that moment on that day where it was all those things that Deanna had encouraged me to continue to do. Now, the bad news is, let me tell you the good news first. The good news is everything that we do of support to somebody like me, who journeys with mental illness. And you and Tom and Jim and Summer, my beloved, all you do all these things, every single one of those things makes an enormous difference, even if there's no visible indication that it does. That's the good news. The bad news is you, somebody out there may not ever see that evidence. And that's frustrating. But please take my word for it from somebody who has been on the receiving end of these things and in my best days, on the giving end, that each and every one of these things makes a critical difference. And ultimately, it hits critical mass. Ultimately, it is the most positive straw that breaks the back of the monster. Not the camel that supports us, but the monster that's trying to kill us. Because the monster has no defense against connection the monster can beat us one on one, but he can't beat us when it's more two or more. And it's these aspects of connection, this aspect of feeling understood. Like, people don't think I'm crazy. They don't think I'm chooses. They don't think when I can't get out of bed, I'm just being lazy. They understand me. That's what we can do. And I'm not saying it's easy because it can become frustrating, but I'm telling you, it works.

Absolutely. And in so many of the principles that we teach in our programs and with couples who are trying to navigate some very, very challenging moments, you know, we strongly remind them that, hey, communication is for understanding, period. It's not used to. Right. Judge or belittle or criticize ourselves or others. And that it's through that understanding where you're going to have a connection. And that connection happens from your heart, regardless of the circumstances that you're going through. And with enough practice, right, all of a sudden we come to a new place where we go, oh, wow, I didn't know that, or holy cow, I had no idea that that's where you were coming from or that's how. Right. You interpreted all that's playing out here in our relationships. And then, then it's there. And then that we can turn a corner, right. And that we can go in a totally new direction. And I, and I love that principle of connection because it is so spot on and that, yes, sometimes it doesn't appear like much is happening. Right. You're showing up, you're trying to get yourself to the table. You're doing your part. You're trying to be curious, right. You're asking how you can support. Be of service to this person that obviously you can see as hurting and struggling. And the principle is the person that's struggling has got to be the one to tell you what they need. Because if we were to be left on our own accord, we have no idea. But all those small little accumulative actions make a huge difference, even sometimes when it doesn't appear to be so. I love that so story.

Yeah. And I would just say, David, what do you share with us? I would sense that you just, you know, if I hear you correctly, it's, you know, whether we see the evidence, you know, with our partner, with whomever, you know, just keep making those deposits. Yes. Just keep making that deposit that, you know, it's similar. I mean, using up in the financial world, you know, compounding Chart doesn't look real impressive for like the first eight years.

Wow, that's a great, Tommy, that's a great analogy.

I mean, so, you know, we just, you know, you got, it's, it's really unimpressive, real unimpressive. And then so I would say I hear you saying, you know, you know, just keep making that deposit, asking that, you know, loving, curious question. And because you, like you said, on the receiving side, they do matter.

Well, and here's the interesting part about that is by making the deposit yourself, we become a better person in the process. Just like saving money, right? Just investing in our financial future or investing into our well being and our body of work. We call it emotional weightlifting. And it is so important for us to become stronger in our capacity to be there for ourselves and present and to give that gift to others. So, you know, the byproduct of all of that is we become better people for wrestling with it as well.

No, and Tom says, I agree 100% there is that, that saying that life can only do for us what life can do through us. So on our best days, on my best day, when I'm being soulful and mindful and respectful and loving, I feel amazing because it's coming through me. I am a vessel and a vehicle that the universe is using to serve the world. When I'm being a butthead, when I'm being judgy and everything else, I feel toxic and awful. Not that life is shaming me or making me feel guilty, but it's just we are a fluid conduit and so we can do these things knowing it is the what I say. It's a sanctuary of mutuality in connecting with other people. In fact, the three single most important words in mental health are connection. Connection. This incredibly complex and daunting thing called mental illness. It's huge. And it is, it's a very complex. The answer is incredibly simple. It's connection. Because here's the thing, we can have all these resources, we could have an endless number of psychiatrists and psychologists and support groups. If people are not feeling connected, the door stays shut. As soon as people feel connected, the first part is the door opens to the possibility of embracing resources. And then little by little, they can begin to move towards them. They can move from the water trough to the pond.

So let me ask you, I mean that as in other, you know, often incredibly simple solutions or a simple significant part of the solution, what would you, would you say, David, in all your presentations and workshops and such, what would you say? Is your biggest frustration around perhaps people not hearing the simplicity or more important, being able to put that into motion to where we can truly have this ripple effect. Because if I hear you correctly, if that's truly what's going to move the needle, then we can all effectively have a massive shift in how there are millions and millions of people around the world are suffering. Yes. So exactly what would you say is your biggest frustration in all of your presentations and such that you've given all over the world?

And I'd say, you know, it's a frustration, but I would tone it down a little bit in which it is probably sad in that it is incredibly common for people to believe to the point where they freeze and stop that because they don't have initials past their name, that they're not either qualified or capable to make what can be as a life saving difference. And so people, because I think I believe in the goodness of people primarily because I have this amazing family that we are all part of. We have this intuitive, albeit not need to contribute and to serve. I believe we are our brothers and sisters keepers. And yet we think, well, I'm going to say or do the wrong thing or I'm not a psychologist, I'm not a psychiatrist and there's nothing I can do. It's a hopeless situation and they're there. All these lifeguards are standing idly on the shore because they don't believe they can do anything. And so that I feel sad and at times get frustrated and I just, it's difficult at times for me to get people to believe that these simple things. And I talk about three remember people's names. Become a master. Realize what Dale Carnegie says, that to a person, the sound of that person's name is the sweetest sound of all. And you are going to remember a person's name on the day that that person simply needs to be recognized. Leverage curiosity to create understanding. Become a master of the handwritten note. These things save people's lives. And let me give you an amazing quote by an extraordinary psychiatrist, Dr. Drew Ramsey. And he puts the whole problem and the solution in a very short paragraph here. These are his words. Somebody you see today is thinking about killing themselves. Your smile, your question, your love could save them. Trust me, they told me it did. We think this thing is going to overwhelm us and it will if we all stay static. But we have the answer. It's right here. I think we're stepping over it. It's like Russell Cromwell's great book, Acres of Diamonds. Like, the treasure is right here. Pick it up and use it. And the best part is you get to experience all the beautiful, blissful benefits at the same time.

So a great people say to me, stacy, what do I do? What do I do? Right? Somebody's anxious, somebody's depressed, you know, somebody's hurting. And I say, have you asked them how you can support them? And they look at me like, well, Ash, I hadn't thought of that. Right? And it's. It is that simple. It's. It's the reminder that you love me, that you care, that I matter to you, and how can I support you? And we all have the ability to say those words in that order, right? We call it fairy dust. We don't have time to talk about that today. But hey, I love you. You matter to me. Right? I want to support you. I see you're hurting. How may I be of support to you? What do you need from me that I could possibly ease your discomfort and then let them tell you? Right, right.

And here's the thing, because I don't want to miss this. The great doctor Rachel Naomi Roman wrote an amazing book, and if you haven't read it, please do. It's called Kitchen Table Wisdom. The doctor was A pediatrician for 37 years, raised in the scientific way, and she said, I can't do it this anymore. I need to be more emotional. And this book is a collection of essays. It's extraordinary. Here's a quote. Because not only is it saying words and doing things, it is indeed this gift of listening. And the great doctor says, our listening creates a sanctuary for the homeless parts in other people. So I had a place to live on that day, on August 31, 2011. Yet on that dark spot, on that tall, tall bridge, I was homeless. The first question out of that heroic deputy's mouth after establishing the safety by contact, the first creation of connection, was when he looked at me and said, david, what does it feel like to be depressed and everything in that moment? When I teach police officers, they said, use curiosity like a tactical weapon to defeat the monster. Because in that moment, everything decelerated. The key to keeping people safe is slowing things down. This man did it with a simple question. And then he listened.

Yeah. So let's take a minute. And Eric, we're going to put you on the spot. Do you have any questions that you want to ask as part of this conversation? Well, we're going to bring you in here, my friend.

Oh, well, happy to be expecting that. Were you.

You know, I was just so much enjoying the conversation that I hadn't thought to formulate a question myself.

No.

And I. If you don't have one, that's totally fine. This is the part where, gosh, we're out of time. I can't believe how quickly this time goes. Right now that I'm kind of like, relaxed and settling into it. And I know we don't have time to really open up the lines for callers. I apologize for that. That's something that we really promise are going to get better at because we want to connect with the listeners out there. You matter to us. You mean a lot to us. And so I thought in the few minutes that we had left, maybe if you had a question that's coming to mind now or.

I have a question.

Oh, I love it.

So, David. So, I mean, again, we all know, I mean, we're blessed, we're calm, we have a drink in front of us. But when the rubber hits the road, you know, what is it? If we forget everything that you have so, you know, powerfully shared with us today, and we know our partner is struggling, and be quite honest, we're kind of damn tired of it, no pun intended, no disrespect. What could you, you know, if we forget everything, what would you remind us with? You know, with all the passion and love and in your heart to not forget, you know, how could we best serve that partner that's struggling? Like I say, to be quite honest with you, I'm kind of tired of it. Like, I'm not seeing much like, damn. And really today, really, you know, what could you share with us?

I really think, Tommy, it's this. It's really to give that person the opportunity to share. But then also remember, and this is an important part, this may seem counterintuitive is realize nothing's broken, there is nothing to fix. It's not your responsibility nor my responsibility to save anybody. That's not it. We are too, if we are in a loving relationship, to create the ideal circumstances. And so it's important, and I tell people that you also have to take care of yourself. You also have to. And I know you talk about in your work, you have to establish boundaries. It's all to them. But also in that moment when you may need to step away to realize that there are simple things we can do. And I think curiosity and listening are the two greatest in which ultimately it's going to create hope. And I'll end with a real quick story. So two of the pups that we had at the Sanctuary were Hope and Harmony. And these. These two came as puppies early on in our experience with Deanna and I. And so Harmony was 100% deaf. She could not hear anything, thus proving the truth that deaf dogs get the best sleep in the house. And that's just the way that it is. So when I would come home, Hoper, as I called her, would come greet me, and then she would go wake up Harmony and bring Harmony to see me. And I believe that it's the same thing. Hope never comes alone. Hope always brings somebody with her. Hope could bring faith could bring love. But I think most often, Hope will go. Once we welcome Hope into our life, once Hope finds us, Hope will go awaken Harmony. And if you think about those two together, not only were these two puppies, like, ridiculously cute, but imagine the hope for a future, the hope that I don't have to live this way, the hope that I can feel well, the hope that I can be purposeful and make a contribution to other people on the foundation of Harmony. Like, it's all gonna be okay. Like, there's a cool breeze. I'm sitting in the chair. You know what? Somehow, some way, I may not even know it's gonna be okay. I'm in harmony with the changes. I'm in this experience, like, merrily, merrily, merrily down the stream in a way that's just harmonious. And I think ultimately that's what happens. Hope awakens Harmony. Connection is the way that it goes. It's all about recognition, understanding, and expression. Connection creates hope, Hope brings along harmony, and the confluence saves people from drowning into the abyss of mental illness.

So eloquently said David.

And I have a question, actually.

Yes, you betcha.

How do dogs and geese get along?

You know what, Eric? I tell you, it was an amazing experience that all the animals literally commingled. I don't know, Eric, how it works so well. I give great credit to my former beloved Deanna. And I think the fact that we did know adoptions, that there was this tangible, palatable energy of inclusion and permanence. And so I think to flip it around, that in our relationships, when we can present and create the energy of certainty and safety, especially right now, and there is this hope and a reliance on permanence. I think that, you know, a man and a woman, two women, two men, can be at odds and be so completely different. Could be a duck and a horse and a dog and a goose, and yet there can be harmony because we know that ultimately it's gonna be okay. Sis, you tell me all the time in my moments of angst. Trust the process. You know what? One of these things is not like the other. But that doesn't mean that those two things cannot combine in a way that mystifies people. In fact, Eric, when people would come to the sanctuary, they could not get their head around the fact one, it was so clean. And that there was this harmonious connection and deep relationships among sentient beings, animals of all different kinds. People are like, you can't put horses and pigs together. I'm like, okay, I'm sorry. Like, the dogs are gonna attack the geese. I'm like, I don't know.

Oh, gosh. So, Woody, how can people. Yes, beautiful answer.

David doesn't like to. To share stories.

How can. How can people get in touch with you, Woody, if they want to reach out and learn more about you, connect with you, learn more about what you do?

And so my beautiful niece, your daughter Brooke, created a beautiful website. So it's David Woods, W o o d s bartley. You know, bartley.com youm can also send me an email davidavidwoodsbartley.com and anything, nothing's off limits. My job is to serve. The animal sanctuary no longer exists, but I obviously leverage stories in honor of Deanna and the animals to take this topic and make it more acceptable. So anything I can do, my life was saved. My job is to serve other people. So website through both of you. Email any way you want to do it. Eric, if you want to get in touch with me, call me. There you go.

All right, animals brother, unfortunately, it's time for us to go. We're going to have to let go of this conversation for now, but gosh, it's been great. Woody, thank you so much for sharing your story again and being here with us and shedding some beautiful, beautiful ways that we can find connection and support the people that we love the most. I also want to just say, as we move into this conversation of mental health and out of the dark shadows, I so appreciate you being the forefront of showing us the way that we can absolutely open the doors of mental health for everyone everywhere. Thank you so much. I do want to give a. I.

Love you both immeasurably.

Oh, we love you too. I also want to give a shout out for next week. We've got a serial entrepreneur, Trevor Blake, going to join us on the show next week. And Trevor found his way out of poverty to build five successful companies valued at a half a million bucks. He's also the best selling effort.

Did you say half a billion?

That was a B, ladies and gentlemen. Oh, I said that, right?

Yeah.

So he's also the best selling offer, author of Three Simple Steps and Secrets to a successful startup. And the best part is he didn't have to sacrifice his relationships with his loved ones to do any of it. So I invite you to join us back next week as he shares his wisdom. Our song today that I'm going to allow and shut up now so that Eric can play a part of is beautiful young Nikki Yosefani, who sings Somewhere over the Rainbow, which I think is so appropriate to end our conversation with everyone today. So until we connect with you again, we're sending you extraordinary love along with the power to create it. Today, go out and enjoy your week and tell somebody you love them. Thanks again, Woody.