People pleasing is actually a form of lying - and we were both guilty | Susie on the Sofa with Cass

Hello and welcome to Susie on the Sofa with Cass, my gorgeous sister. And we are having so much fun recording these videos for you because it's our way of documenting how we are try— not trying, we're not trying. You do or you do not, there is no try. I think that's Yoda, but I think it's Yoda. There is no try. We are living our lives to our true North Star, which we have identified as just living them like within our hearts, like within joy, within purpose, all the stuff that lights us up and gives us the wiggle. You know, the wiggle, you know, the goosebumps, the excitement.

Yeah.

Um, but it's the, the dance between this is the real ugly messy 3D world. And it is ugly and it is messy and it will pull you back in and, and, and you will forget. So it's this real dance of like remembering, oh, that's right, I'm here to live with joy and in fun and like actually like in amazement of this miraculous human experience. And, um, so Cass has just done a major life boggle button incident blew it all up and see where the pieces land. She's done, um, 2 Caminos that bookended a trip to Europe, and we've covered them in earlier videos. You can find them in the playlist. Um, and so really we're just unpacking between the two of us, like, how her major life decision— like, it's a big deal to go and walk like 2 800-kilometer walks with carrying all your belongings, like, it's incredible. And, and it gives you the space to figure things out. But what we're trying to do is now how do we bring that into, like, real life, like everyday life for people that don't have time to do that? And what are the— some of the common threads that we're seeing, um, between the two?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, and yes, trying. So there is a lot of conversation on Camino about how do we— because you can't walk Camino forever, um, but how do you take the insights and the learnings and the, the feeling that you get on Camino, this real connection with yourself, with other people, with nature, with the whole purpose of life— how do you bring that into daily jobs, 9 to 5, kids, responsibilities, mortgage payments? Uh, cleaning, keeping a house clean.

Um, yeah, Cass and I just, we let the house go all weekend. The kids were like, literally there was teenagers in and out, in and out. Like, we could have tidied non-stop and it still probably would have looked the same last night. So this morning we got up and it took us probably half an hour, maybe 40 minutes, and got it all back put into place. But as opposed to like fighting the battle all weekend, like, I don't know if we're ever gonna Like, like you're never gonna win with teenagers and mess. Like, it's just not gonna happen, especially on the weekend when there's multiples of them traipsing in and out and there's sand and there's towels and there's clothes and you name it, it's there. So. Yeah. Yeah. It's just the, how do we, like the balance so that we're not running on overwhelm and exhaustion. And I think the Camino teaches you Well, you can tell us how it teaches— like, that gives you the safe space. Sorry, is what I was trying to say.

Yeah, it gives you a— it gives you a space because you, you literally remove yourself from everyday life, um, for as long as you choose to walk. And it gives you— it's a gift. You've gifted yourself the space and the time to come into your body, to come back to what's important to you, to listen to your heart, listen to your soul. Listen to your physical body, which is a physical representation of what's happening internally within you. Um, uh, yeah, it's a gift. You've gifted yourself the space and time, but it's a challenge to, to bring it back into 3D life. And, um, I think I've had a lovely slow transition, stopping in California for a little while before I head back to real life. Um, but it's been a really great opportunity to sit and talk with Suze about it, um, not just about the experiences, but, um, about what does it actually mean and how do I apply. Because I think it would be very easy to go from Camino back into normal life and very quickly, probably instantly in some instances, lose all of the, the beauty and the joy and the gifts that, that you are— that I was open to receive.

Well, you said that, um, uh, when she did the second Camino, she was actually surprised at how much of the, um, stuff she'd like learned about herself on the first one, how quickly it did get erased.

Yeah, it absolutely did. And, um, it, it— but I was, it was, I was more open to the messages on the second Camino than I was on the first Camino, um, because on the first Camino I was like, what?

Deer in headlights, I think you described it as.

Literally deer in headlights.

I was like, what is this? So you think it's much once— so it's a bit like muscle memory. Once you remember, you're like, oh, that's right, I need to go back. Yes, to that. And we did have a lovely viewer who commented, um, how they struggled to ask for help. And so Cass and I have really been talking about this theme of asking for help, and, and we think that it actually has to go a step further before you can ask for help. You have to learn how to receive help.

Yeah.

And I think the Camino really, like, you You had to receive help because otherwise you couldn't go on. So that community, like, explain how, like, how the Camino part, and then I think we'll apply it into real life.

Yeah. So the— I feel like sometimes like I'm a, like a 3-year-old child who wants to tie their own shoelaces. I can do it on my own. I can do the Camino. I can walk all the steps. I can make all the bookings. I can choose which way I'm going to go. But it— you, you get decision fatigue on Camino because you have to make every single decision every single day, and you're in a new location with a new environment, new surroundings, um, new place to stay.

So you get beaten down?

You do get beaten down, and it is definitely decision fatigue, and it, it's overwhelming sometimes. Um, and it's, it's such a beautiful community because people want to help. They want to help you with Your feet, they want to offer Band-Aids or— and threading blisters, um, which is a really gruesome—

That's not for me. I would not be— sorry, I'm threading no one's blisters. Sorry, you're on your own there. I will get you an ice cold drink though. I'm very good at that.

But people want to share their— they want to share their food with you, they want to share their time with you, they want to share their life with you and their experiences. It's incredible. And I don't think I've mentioned this, but it's incredible how On the Camino, people will share with you, and you find yourself sharing information, which might this might be a totally different not really because I think it's like the openness, and I think the point being is that in order to receive help, you've got to be open to it.

So I think that that probably clanger. You yes, you have to be open in order to receive.

So.

Like, I know, like, it's so cliché and we hear it all the time, like, but the 3D practice of it is what is hard. Like, it's really hard because we'll say you and I, we have been— we've spent a lot of our time— we grew up with a very strong independent female role model. Like, you can do any— everything, you do just get on it with it and you do everything.

And, and so we, we do everything. Um, and, and I, when we were talking about the lovely comment about this woman wanting to ask for help, we were, we were talking about it. It's like, well, it's a big step to go from being that I can do everything, and we can do everything. Yeah, literally, literally everything. Whatever, whatever, we can do it. Yes. Um, but that doesn't mean that you should. No, it doesn't mean that. It doesn't mean that it's the right thing to do. Yes. But it's a big step to go from being super independent hyper-independent to asking for help. And we were talking about there might actually be a midpoint, um, where you— because there's people want to help, they want to help. Like on Camino, they want to help with your— with everything. They want to help you physically, they want to help you emotionally, and they— and there's just so much offering of help. Um, and we were thinking about how starting that awareness around when people are offering help and you're not even hearing it.

Are you blocking help being offered to you because you've got this? I've got this. I can do it.

I can do this.

I can do it. No, it's all good, it's all good. But that's what we was like, being open to receive the help and allow it to come in. Those, that's sort of like starting with the micro moments of, okay, yeah, you can do it individually. It doesn't matter. You can, you can schlep those groceries up the thing. You can pack the dishwasher, you like, without help from the kids. Although I've got it, I'm fine. So The awareness of listen to your language. How many times are you like, no, I've got this. No, I'm all good. No, I've got it. Like, no thanks. No, I'm good. I can do this. Like, catch yourself. Where are you saying that in your life and not allowing the help to come in? Because I think it's finding those little micro moments of in— like, it's low-stakes environment, which is what we keep banging on about, the low stuff.

Yeah.

Like, practicing this in a low-stakes environment.

Yeah.

So then maybe when you need help with a bigger task, it's easier to recognize and be open.

That you need help.

That you need help.

And then you can then ask for help. Um, but the, yeah, the micro moments of—

Would you like to tell the story about the chairs? You tell it so well. Well, I can if you like. But anyway, I, I, this always comes to me. It's, and it's again, I can do it, I can do it. And Cass and I, we were traveling with our cousin and his friend, and we were up north in the redwoods, and we were setting up some chairs to watch the beautiful, like, um, stream going down in between these majestic redwoods. So we were setting them up in a row. So my cousin said repeatedly, oh, I'll get— I've got the chairs. And Cass and I both said, no, it's okay, we can do it. We're like struggling, wrestling with the outside chairs. And he goes— he goes something like— it was quite like, women, would you just let us help you? And I was like, oh. Okay, sure, you get the chair.

Guilty. Yeah.

Guilty, because he was offering to help. He wanted to help us and we were blocking it and blocking it. No, we're good, we're good, we're fine. But so without being open to it, you're not actually giving the other person the opportunity to provide you with the gift of helping. So you're actually robbing them of being able to help you, which actually makes them feel good about themselves. And I think that I like to think of it like to flip the perspective. Like, okay, and this is actually another really good example because at the moment we're living in this house and it has a teeny like galley kitchen. Only one person can be in there. Like literally, we cannot, like you cannot—

If the dishwasher's open, you have to high jump over.

You can't have the dishwasher open and the oven on the fridge. Like it is like one at a time and one person. So Cass and I are both used to like being in the, like helping each other out in the kitchen, but only one of us can. And I watched between us, it's like when Cass was making me a piece of toast and a coffee, my, um, instinct that I needed to go and help her was so strong. And I knew, like, I was watching her, and in my head I literally played this out. I was like, if it was you making her the toast and the coffee, would you care that she was doing it without your help? I'd be like, no, I would love to do that for her without, um, helping.

Yeah.

But I had to talk myself off the ledge, the guilt ledge, not like 3 times. I was like, no, Only one of us actually fits in the kitchen. You physically can't go. Just sit, lady. Yeah, just sit, sit, receive a piece of toast and receive a piece of toast.

And I'm not giving you a kidney.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm just making some toast and coffee. I know what you've done for me for the last couple of days.

I know, but that feeling of, oh, I've got like— it's difficult. Yeah, like it's actually difficult to receive. And I, as I said, this was a piece of toast and a coffee. 3 times I had to talk myself back. Like literally my head I was like, no, if it was you doing it, she wouldn't care. She wants to make you a piece of toast and a coffee. Like, let her help you. Do you know what I mean?

Yeah.

And it's that little stuff. Yeah, yeah.

And I think, um, just to go back to the Camino, what the realization I had before was, um, you know, people want to help you physically, um, whether it's Band-Aids or a cold drink or make you a cup of tea or invite you to join in their dinner at nighttime, but they also And they—it's such a sharing community, but emotionally they also want to share, and they want to help by by people sharing. It helps you share, and these these walls that we have up around ourselves around not being vulnerable, being able to manage everything. I don't need help. I don't need. I don't need. I don't need. I don't need. I'm fine. I'm fine.

I'm fine. I'm fine. Literally, like, I'm fine. I'm fine. Isn't that like the toddler tantrum? I'm fine. Fine! And they storm off.

Um, but by, by being open to receiving people's story on the Camino and their emotional, uh, life and what they've been through and the reasons— because everyone's very open and, and willing to share what they— the reason why they walk in Camino, because everyone's reason is different. Um, and by receiving their Story, you're you're giving them a gift. So when someone wants to help you, whether it's physically with the shopping or the chair or the piece of toast, the chair.

Women, let us help you. I know. So yeah, now you're gonna catch yourself now and something like just like in your head, it's like let them help you. And I just wondering, Cass, how long into the first Camino, like when you were deer in headlights, like Did you have to receive help? Did you have to learn that pretty fast, do you think, for like nearly survival on it, or did it take you a while?

Uh, um, no, I had to learn to receive help when I was physically broken, which was like day 3. It was day 3, uh, physically broken. My knee was so sore I actually couldn't walk, um, and I found myself in albergue, um, with And it was, it was in the middle of nowhere. I couldn't find anything in the town that I wanted to stay in. So I found something out of town, which was like a 3-kilometer walk into town.

And you couldn't walk.

And I couldn't walk. I couldn't walk. I definitely couldn't walk. And, you know, we're in rural Spain, so the bus services are limited. I was brand new to Europe.

A donkey?

A donkey. If I could find a donkey, I would have ridden a donkey or a llama.

I don't speak Spanish.

Or an ass horse.

Whatever donkey is in Spanish. I don't know. Ass? I don't know.

And I found myself at this albergue where there were, there were no other pilgrims. Um, it was just me. It was a pension, I think, like a, like a in-between an albergue and a hotel. And there was no shops. I had no food. I didn't— couldn't speak the language. And I stayed at this, uh, pension with this man who, he cooked me 3 meals a day for the, for the couple of days that I was there and would check on me during the day to make sure that I was okay.

Because they normally kick you out, don't they? Like, you normally kick you out.

But if you're injured, you can stay, you can stay longer.

Okay.

And he, uh, it's— I've— I wanted to do everything on my own, but I could actually— all I needed to do was rest and receive care from him. And I didn't realize it at the time, but it was like the first, I just need to receive. This man wants to care for me. Yes, I'm paying him to, to be there, but the care and the, the emotional support and the energy that he provided I just received, and I thought I'd— I, I actually, I had some pretty dark times, and I thought, that's it, I'm never going to be able to finish the Camino. I'm such a failure. I can't believe I've bitten off more than I can chew. How did I ever think I could do this? Alice is a Wonder Woman. How did she do this? Why didn't I train more? Like, all of the, the awful negative spiraling patterns and, and thought processes. And I was in a pretty dark place, and this man just Gently, lovingly cared for me. He didn't speak much English, and I spoke bugger all Spanish, and he just cared for me and allowed me to rest and provided this beautiful, safe place for me to receive care. Yeah, he was crying.

He was such a sweet. I can't remember his name. Oh, bless him! And oh, that's like that's yeah. So you were forced to receive.

You yes, I was forced to receive. And then the the gift of receiving. Came up multiple times, whether it was through— I remember one guy who just kept offering me Compeed Band-Aids for my blisters, and I was like, no, no, I've got them sorted, I've got them sorted, I've got them sorted. And I, I rejected him for— I think we walked on and off together for 10 days. Wow.

And, and you eventually take one?

No, I didn't, I didn't. Then I got to the second Camino and used a Compeed Band-Aid and went, oh, that's what everyone's banging on about, they're actually really good, I should.

So you were maybe like pushing back that help with, um, at your detriment? I'm fine, my Band-Aids will be fine. Yeah, well, it's also Probably a little bit like, um, and I'm going like it sort of links in this rejecting help. I'm fine. It's a little bit linked to like the people pleasing, not to be a burden. Yes. And we were talking about um that people pleasing, like I'm fine because I don't want to inconvenience you.

I don't want to be a burden on you. I don't want to take your compete band aids because you might not have enough, and then you're going to have to go and buy more.

Even though if he didn't have enough, he wouldn't have. Like we have to trust. that they genuinely want to give you that.

Yeah.

And Cass and I both— well, we're not just reformed people pleasers, we're working on it. We're a work in progress on the people pleasing. We're a WIP. We're a WIP, yeah. We're a work in progress because it's like, yep, you can see it, but then it's like we've got 45 years to unlearn these behaviors. And so the people pleasing is a little bit like putting on that mask as opposed to, yes, I need that Band-Aid, saying no, I'm fine, because of not wanting to inconvenience the other person, but by doing that, you're actually lying to them. Like, I heard people pleasing, um, described as this, that you're actually lying to the other person. So by you, like, thinking you're a martyr and, like, sacrificing yourself for the greater good of whatever the situation is— When I heard that I was, like, lying, I was like, oh, that doesn't sound so good. I thought I'm the martyr, I'm the savior of the situation, I'm the one that's not going to inconvenience anyone.

Yes, I will put myself out so that others aren't inconvenienced, but I'm just a blatant fat liar.

I'm just like— and then you tell us about like the people pleasing, how you heard it.

Yeah, so I heard it Um, I can't remember where I read it or who said it, but I heard it described as a controlling mechanism.

Hmm.

And for me, I think I'm anything but controlling. Um, and to hear people pleasing described as controlling, as in you are controlling someone's perception of you, you are controlling the outcome, you are controlling other people's opportunity to experience something, you're controlling Um, and yeah, they go hand in hand, don't they?

Like, you're lying to the other person and controlling in order to control the outcome.

Yeah, yeah.

And so you're never giving them a chance to even know the real you. So I think— and like, I always bring it back to this because it's basic tribal, it's tribal, like primitive programming. So For all the people pleasers out there who might be hearing this for the first time, you can't feel bad because we are designed to fit in and not be rejected by the tribe, by the herd. Because you get rejected by the tribe, you're out on your own fighting in the caveman world, and you're dead. Yeah, like you cannot live without the tribe. Saber-toothed tiger by yourself, you're not— yeah, you're kicked out of the cave, you're out, so you die. So this is like a Primitive response to be accepted and not kicked out dates back like prehistoric times.

Many, many thousands. Many, many, many years.

Many, many years. More than five. So, so to undo this conditioning, it's like fight and flight. It's um, it's to it's getting that awareness of being vuln. It's becoming. It's being open, being vulnerable to actually what if I show the real me? Without the fear of being rejected? And what if by showing my real self and saying what I actually want and not people pleasing, not controlling how it— controlling a narrative where we think they're gonna like us more? Like, this is all made up in our heads.

Yeah, it's, it's like fascinating.

It's not even real. Like, it's only our perception of what we think they want to hear. But it's not real. Like, we don't know. Like, if you give them your exact truth and are open and honest with actually what you want, they might be liking you more than you creating this false narrative.

Yeah.

And I always like to give the example of, um, when people are freshly dating and— or not even freshly dating, like if you're trying to impress someone and it's like, do you want— should we have Indian takeaway or Thai takeaway for dinner? And you want Thai and they want Indian. But you don't really care that much, so you let them get Indian. And then, so that's 1 point then, minus 1 for you. Then the next time it's like bowling or the movies, you want to go bowling, they want to go to the movies, you don't care that much. Oh, that's right, Cass, you said it's like low-stake environment.

Yeah, but yeah, yeah, making— it's not even really about giving away your power, but it's making decisions that Or going along with someone else's decision in a low-stake environment that you think has no impact, or is it— it's because what— it's what the other person wants. So it's a very low-stakes environment. Indian or Thai, low-stakes environment. Yeah, bowling, movies, low-stakes environment.

Um, but yeah, and then the accumu— like, the cumulative effect of that though is where the imbalance comes.

Yeah. Um, And it's it, and the other person. And you think about it, like if it's Indian or Thai, you say Indian because you don't really care. But the other person might not really care either. So if you actually say what you want, or you genuinely genuinely don't care. But it's I think it's when you're saying that you don't care when you actually do care.

Yes, that's yeah, that's the point. Yeah, yeah. I know. Oh yeah, I had a fight. Well, no, I didn't have a fight with the girls, but my daughter got really mad at me because I've been sleeping in the lounge room on the daybed and giving the girls the main bedroom. And she was like. You have to stand up to your children and take the big bedroom for yourself. And I was like, I actually just don't care. And in that situation, I gen— like, I wasn't banking up little resentment points that they were having the big— I genuinely did not care. So it's also knowing the difference.

Yeah, knowing the difference between what actually means something to you and what you genuinely don't care about. And if something means something to you, if it's Indian or bowling or which house you're gonna buy or where you're gonna go on holiday, speak up and then have a conversation and decide on what's the best outcome. But don't, don't build up those little resentments.

I know, because I'll tell you where it's going. They, they, they get— there'll be a point and there'll be a final straw and you'll yell at them, we always Do what you want to do.

Yeah.

And you know whose fault that is? Yeah, yeah, it absolutely— yeah, it is. And they look— they'll be like, what? What are you talking about? Like, we just— like, do you know what I mean? We just— whatever the— whatever the final straw is, because it won't—

and it won't be something major, it'll be something really minor, a dish left on the sink or clothes on the ground.

Or yeah, whatever. It'll just be your tipping point where the imbalance of all those tiny things— and that's how you'll know if something does matter or if it doesn't matter, because if it genuinely doesn't matter, you won't ever— that won't, that won't happen. The eruption won't happen.

Yeah.

But if all those little points add up— and look, internal guilt. Yeah, it's an internal thing. Captain Guilty here. Totally guilty. 1,000%. Like, just go along with the flow, just make it easy for everyone, don't say what you really want because it doesn't really matter that much. But it does, because your body, yeah, your central nervous system is taking— it's got the scorecard.

It does, it does. And every time you make a decision that's not in line with, with what you genuinely want— and it doesn't necessarily mean— sorry, every time you make a decision that's not in line with what genuinely want. It's like a little— yeah, it's like a little—

your little soul has a little scorecard. It's your central nervous system. It's sort of like— and they're all micro, they're micro levels. So you know how I was talking about the 1 to 10 scale and where do you sit on it? Those ones are all like, you wouldn't move a whole bar for one of them. You might even need 100 to move a point. But if you're at a 9 and you get that final tipping point, like that last one that tips you over, It might be the 100th one of that, but all of a sudden that's too much and explodes. So yeah, your body keeps track.

Your body keeps score. The body keeps score.

Yeah, and it will let you know. Same like the stubbing your toe or screaming expletives at the coffee pot, throwing your phone down on the bed when someone asks you, texts you for a coffee. If that results in you stomping around Swearing, you know it's time to— you know it's time to have a little check-in. A little check-in.

A little check-in with what's going on.

And just like retrace your steps and where have you been giving your power away, where have you not been advocating for yourself. Like, all of these are different lenses of the where have I not been true to myself. Yeah. And listening. Listening. Yeah. Which I think Camino forces you to listen.

It does force you to listen. Um, because physically, like, the body is, is a, an external representation of what's happening inside. Um, and yes, it's physically challenging and all of those things, but there is, there's a deeper layer. Um, and your body absolutely tells you it. You have to listen to your body because if you don't listen to your body— and there's so much conversation about this on Camino— I'm going to listen to my body. I've got sore feet, so I'm not going to walk today. Or I've got My hip's really sore, so I'm going to do blah blah blah. But there's a— it forces you to stop and listen internally and externally as well. And it's, it's a challenge because there's this little voice inside your head that says, well, you can do— you, you know, your friends are up ahead, you've met that really great person, and, and they're staying 10 kilometers on, and you're thinking about stopping here? Oh no, that's a failure. No, you need to keep going.

Or what you just said there, that's a failure.

Yeah.

Um, which I think when you redefined your metric, your— when you redefined— when you were broken at the beginning of the trip and you redefined it to, I just want to finish, but your brain was still— yeah. So it's listening to the words, I think.

And yeah. Um, and, and thinking about what, what expectations have I put on myself that actually have no value? And a really good example is on the Camino, there's a bunch of different guidebooks and apps that give you suggested stages. So how far you should walk if you want to walk the Camino in 35 days, these are the suggested stages.

Mm-hmm.

And it's fascinating to watch people follow those stages to the letter. They won't take a single deviation. They won't take the road less traveled. They wouldn't even consider staying in one of the off-stage towns. They just, they, they're like sheep.

Mm-hmm.

And, and when— this is something I did really well, I'm really proud of myself for doing on the second Camino, is that I, I genuinely listened to my body and my soul and what I actually wanted to do and the type of experience I wanted to have. And I literally saw people— it was one day I was walking next— okay, well, we were walking through the wheat belt of Spain. It's open, it's hot, it's exposed. There's no— there's very few towns, there's no shade, not a lot of respite. And there was a deviation and And I could see this trail of pilgrims walking in the blaring sun. It was mid to high 20s, literally following each other like cows on their way to be milked at the end of the day. You know, it's just a line of people. It's like ants. It's like, yes. And I took, I took the deviation route. It was a, it was slightly longer, next to a river with running water, trees, shade, breeze. Very few other pilgrims there, and just had the most delightful time. And I when I asked people about the you know are you taking the alternative route? They're like what alternative route? I was like oh you don't even know. But they had I had I not listened to what my body wanted and what I actually wanted from the experience, I would have been like an ant following all the other ones down down the hot path. But I knew that I wanted to.

So did you check it when you like I know that Cass. um, checks in with herself a lot. Like, what do I want? And I have covered that in some of my other videos, and we'll cover it a bit now, I think. Because you can check— like, we have a guidance system inside of us. Like, this heart knows much more than what this head— like, this head will try and think its way through things, but the heart actually knows. And call it intuition, call it like heart guidance, call it whatever you call it. You can check in. So did you check in at that intersection and just say— Always, always.

And that's probably something that I did more on the second Camino was check in with myself in the morning. Where do— how far do I want to walk? Do I want to— where do I want to stay? Um, do I want to stay in this town or do I want to stay in this town? And then I, I also went into it knowing that if there was a road less traveled, I would take it. But at each junction I would stop and ask, and I would still ask because something could have changed, and maybe, maybe my, my soul didn't want to go on the deviation. So every time I got to a deviation, I would ask.

Yeah, because it's the present moment.

Exactly.

When the only thing that's real is the now. Is the now. Everything else doesn't actually exist, but that's a topic for another day. That's a whole different conversation. Um, so if people haven't checked in with themselves before, how would you describe, like, how would you Um, explain a process that they can do to check in with their hearts and like get out of the logical brain?

Uh, I would say, uh, make it simple. Don't— make it simple. So, uh, for me, if I got to a section in the Camino where I had the option to take the normal well-populated road or the road less traveled, I would stop and I would take a deep breath A really big deep breath, maybe a couple of deep breaths. And I would look at the, the normal path and I would say, do I want to go this way? And pause. And then my body— and then I get a response, like a physical response that says yes or no. And then I would look at the other path and I would say, do I want to go this way? And then I would wait and I would hear what my body actually wanted to do, what my soul wanted to do. And then I would listen to it. And sometimes it would send me on paths that I didn't Necessarily think I thought I wanted to go. Yes, yeah, yeah. So if I thought I wanted to take, there were some days where, as I said, quite surprised.

I was quite surprised.

Yeah. So I went in thinking I will always take the alternative route, and there were some alternative routes that I got to, and I asked myself, do I want to take this alternative route? And the answer was no. And instead of going, but no, but I said I was going to do this, and I'm going to take all the all the roads less traveled. I was like, okay, no. My body said allowing it.

to flow and to change. Like, you're allowed to change your mind.

You are allowed to change your mind.

Yeah.

Just because you have one really expectation with no value.

Yes.

What's, what's the— again, there's no expectation with zero value. Like, there's no special certificate at the end.

So you didn't get like an extra medal for going that way?

No, there was no marching band saying, this is this.

The expectations that come from here Basically shoulds. Yeah, shoulds are basically expectations with zero value. They actually hold—they don't align with any of your highest values. They're all yep, zero value to you, to your heart. So I think maybe ways like you can start to play around with how you check into yourself. Like your body will tell you fit. Like if you like you will know this feeling because you know when it's like an idea, like you want to do something that's amazing and you literally like yes, I want to do that. Yes, like. You're not always going to get that biggest response, but that's what it feels like.

Yeah.

And so even maybe it's just looking at one option and looking at the other. Like, I now can ask and I hear yeses and nos as well, but what— like, what does it feel like? Does the thought of eating that carrot feel like— like, in my mind right now, I'm like, I actually want a cold crunchy carrot. Like, if to me it feels fun, or like— and now I'm thinking, for example, yogurt, but The carrot feels good.

Yeah, yeah.

I love the yogurt. Like, we found an amazing natural yogurt. I'm very happy with it. But, but like, you can kind of feel the difference in your body, like which feels better.

And I think another thing that, that I feel in my body, which I didn't feel for a very, very long time, is that I can feel when my body— so I get the yes and the no, but I also can feel when my body relaxes a little bit. Like it's it's like a physical reaction. So I can I sigh or I I exhale, or I can feel like my lower back release. Whereas if something's a no and it feels like I'm pushing something that I shouldn't be pushing, I can feel it in my stomach. It's like a okay.

It's like I don't think so. That's not a good idea. You might feel tight and you're like. Just start to learn, um, your own body's signals, I suppose, because everyone's going to be different. Like, um, but like, you can also pick up on your language. Like I said the other day, I told Cassie I limped through something and I played with something else. Like, I literally spoke what— like, spoke. And wasn't there something else? Didn't I know? I go, oh yeah. And I was like, well, that's not the answer.

That's not the answer.

Start checking in with your cues, like your own. Like, this is all about coming back within yourself and learning who are you if you're not people— like, if you strip it all back, like, if you're not people pleasing. Like, do you know what? It might be really hard. You might be so trained in people pleasing that you don't even have a clue what you want. Like, yeah, and you might have to go back to base. Like, sometimes I need to go back to basics, okay? I'm like frazzled, I'm overwhelmed, I've, I've shifted too much that way. Okay, let's go back to basics. Yeah, yeah. Like, asking that question, like, what do I want, is—

And that might actually be too much to begin with. It might. It— because like we spoke about in one of the other videos, when I had finished my Camino, it was like, well, what do I want to do? And I had literally every single option available to me, and that was paralyzing. Yeah. So it's like, okay, then if that is— if that if that question of what do I want brings anxiety, and you know that, you— everyone knows what anxiety feels like in their own body. If that, if that what do I want question brings anxiety, just pause on that and then think about, okay, what do I— what don't I want? And maybe start there. And that's a smaller, okay, well, I know I do. And, you know, I, I get it with, um, food decisions.

I find them really tough.

Oh, okay. Food decisions. Like if I have Again, every option open to me.

Yes, of course. Whereas I've only got 3 options. I buy things in like, we've got 3 things. My kids are like, there's no food. I'm like, well, we can make this, this, this, and this all out of the 3 options and pantry staples, obviously. But I understand what you mean. When you're traveling, you literally have all the options and you don't have a cupboard and a pantry and a fridge where there's the same. So that I could agree that that would be debilitating after a while.

And if If there's, if there's too many options, then okay, I'll start eliminating. Do I want to go to a restaurant? Do I want to go to the supermarket? Do I want to get takeaway? Do I want to get room service if I'm in a hotel? Very infrequently, but it's an option.

Mm-hmm.

Like, to start to think about, okay, well, if I can eliminate down to maybe 3 things, then that'll make my decision easier.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and again, it's a low-stakes environment. That is a really low-stakes environment, but it helps Build the trust in myself that I will listen to myself and that I will trust myself and then do what is, what is actually right for me.

And I'm going to slide in a thing about shoulds there because I had this perfect example of the food thing. I had the food court when I was working in the city back in Australia. The food court has literally everything in there. So I really, I love this katsu chicken curry that they had on this like Asian slaw. It was delicious. I wanted that. I thought I should get something healthier, so I got sweet potato soup instead of getting what I wanted. Like, I knew it. Like, I knew when I was making the decision. Anyway, so I got the sweet potato soup. I, I didn't want it, but I got it because I should.

You should, because it's healthy.

It made me so sick. It's not for— I actually had to leave work early because I got so sick. My body knew it didn't want it, and I don't know whether there was something wrong with it or if my body just I wasn't in a position to receive whatever was in it. It was like I had to go, I had to leave work. So, getting the shoulds out of the decision, it's like, where— is this really what I want? Is this— if the word what I should have, kick that out of bed. Should is gone. Should has left the building.

Like, literally.

And you will notice now, notice your language, because every time you say should, kick it out of bed.

Yeah.

Why should you? Dig in. Why should you?

What's, what's the actual underlying driver? Yeah. Yeah, it's an expectation that the food one is, is perfect. It's because it's something that everyone can relate to. I should eat healthier. I should have a salad.

Yeah.

I love salad, but salad sometimes is not what my body wants.

And maybe, yeah, maybe your stomach is not. And like, there's We don't know how these bodies— we have no idea. They're miraculous and how they work. But like, science knows a bit, but I think it— like, I know there's all— like, even if you think about the— I, I can't say it— Ayurvedic. She can say it, she's better at that. But all the different states of the body that they know about, like, I know nothing about that. I might be in one of those states and I'm trying to feed my body something completely that is not going to mesh. Like, There's so much we don't know about that. But do you know who— what does know? Your heart knows.

Yeah.

Your intuition knows because you're getting that message from the whole— all the cells, all the information within your body. So if you listen into that, it'll give you the shortcuts.

Yeah, yeah.

To what your body actually wants. And as I was like, sometimes it might— like, you might think, I shouldn't eat chocolate, but your body might need— like, if you were craving that, I don't know, dark chocolate with the hazelnuts or something, your body might need something within that to do something. Like, do you know what I mean? You don't know what's going on in there. So like, I'm not saying eat 10 blocks of it. That's gonna— that— what is it feeding you or is it eating you? That's gonna make you feel sick as anything. So it's listening in. But if you want that bit of chocolate, kick the shoulds out of bed. Yeah, yeah.

I should get something healthier. Yeah, I should go for a run.

I should go to It's like, but what do you want? Like, maybe, like, you might go for that run and injure yourself because your body didn't want to do it. But we don't listen. We're filled with these shoulds and expectations of zero value when our heart and our body knows.

Yeah.

It knows.

It does. It will tell you. It will tell you.

Very quickly.

Yeah, it will. Yeah, it might physically stop you in your tracks and prevent you from being able to Continue walking, or it might have a physical reaction to the food that you've had.

Make you leave work early because you ate what you should.

Yeah.

Not what your body wanted.

Yes. Um, but it's— and it's, it's a, again, small, low-stakes environment. Start practicing in a low-stakes environment, um, and become more comfortable with listening, figuring out, like, in your body, where do I feel this? Where do I feel this? Is it in my head? Is it in my throat? Is it in my stomach? Is it in my heart? Is it an all-over body feeling? Does your body just relax and go, oh, actually this feels amazing?

Yeah, I know, because you know when you have to do something you don't want to do, you can feel it. Yeah. Whereas when you're about to go to do something that you're like really excited to do, you're like skipping. Yeah. Like to do it, do you know? Like you are feeling it already, you just probably haven't tuned in to the messages, but you will know. And it's start to notice the differences between the wiggle and yes, this is so exciting, or the limping and ugh, God, I have to do that.

Eeyore-ing through it.

Eeyore. And like, as we said, the house will eventually get tired. If that's making you feel ugh, don't do it. Yeah, wait. Eventually, like this morning, we skipped around and did it and it didn't feel— it didn't feel hard, it felt easy and it flowed and it wasn't like a No. So it's just everything will line up in time. And I suppose for the really icky jobs that you really have to get through, um, and like there's no way around it and you've got to go through it, try and create an environment for yourself. Um, like maybe for, like, say, let's say it's scrubbing the toilet. It does eventually have to be done. Sometimes you're not inspired to, but I don't know, I'm trying to think like a yucky job that— I don't know, doing a piece. Oh, okay, what about my accounting?

Oh yeah.

My accounting, that is like, uh, I am not an accountant on purpose because it is mind-numbingly boring. Like, other people might love those numbers adding up, and it's like, I can do it, but it doesn't bring me joy. But what does bring me joy is the finished result. And that feeling that I will feel at the end. So I will tap into that, and I will put on my fun music playlist, and I will like, like give myself the space. Like I have to do it, but I know the feeling at the end, and I tap into that. So instead of like dragging myself through it, I am tapping in throughout the whole process of, oh my God, this is going to be so awesome when it's all sorted and reconciled and off my plate. And I jump to the end feeling. Instead of dragging myself through the middle. Yeah, I don't know, that's my hack for the really boring things that are unavoidable.

Yeah, there's some things you have to do.

Like for you, I suppose, on Camino, the big, like, long industrial boring—

Yeah, yeah, yeah, there were, there were, because it's not all beautiful scenery. Um, and there were sections where we would have to, you know, you come into a relatively large town and you have to leave it by foot or by bus or whatever. But if you choose to walk it, you'll have to walk through an industrial area, and then— and you might need to walk past main roads quite frequently. You're right next to a road and there'll be cars whizzing past. Um, some people really enjoy that, most people don't. So you make it as enjoyable as possible. Maybe walk slightly faster that day, maybe you walk with someone and have a chat, maybe put your headphones in and listen to a podcast or some music, maybe you take a bus.

Yeah.

But you still have to get through it in some way. You have to get through it, but to try to make it as enjoyable as possible.

So adapt the conditions. Yeah, adapt the conditions. Yeah, and be flexible with yourself, definitely. Yeah, don't sit down to your accounting with a throbbing headache or something.

No, no, when you've had a huge day of mentally taxing activities.

Yeah, do it when you know you're fresh. Like, I'm a morning person, so I would hit on it straight away in the morning because I'm really— I'm much sharper and faster in the morning.

So, so you do have to do things that you don't want to do sometimes. That's just life.

This is. But create an environment that can set you up for success to get to the— and, and focus on the end feeling.

Yeah.

Because it's going to make you feel better in it.

Yeah, yeah.

Feel like you've completed it now.

You're manifesting the feeling at the end.

And maybe those numbers will reconcile a bit faster.

Yeah, yeah.

Okay, so for a channel that gives no homework, I'm going to give you some more homework, but it's the same homework every time.

Yes, awareness. Awareness and curiosity as well, like, which is awareness, but the awareness of where does something sit in your body physically.

Yeah, and like listening into decisions, like, can you feel like an Excitement or a tightening or a or a yes, like like they might not come as yes and nos to you, but play around with like do I want a carrot or do I want some yogurt? Like see if you can feel the difference. Maybe you want carrot with yogurt. Maybe not sure that's the thing, but maybe you want maybe you want cake.

Yeah, maybe you don't want cake. Maybe you've got an offer of cake and you don't want it. Yeah, yes. But so yeah, to listen to to just. Be curious about and feel where in your body.

And you can play around like Cass did on Camino. I like this. I play this game sometimes with myself, and that is to just buy yourself half an hour and walk out of the house. Okay, I'm just gonna pause for a sec. Hello, we just got cut off there briefly, and I was setting you up for a little fun exercise. Just allow yourself some time, however long you've got, maybe an hour, maybe half an hour. But anyway, the time is irrelevant. The point is you're going to go on a little adventure by just literally listening into your heart. So you go, you start with, do I want to walk or do I want to drive? And just check in which one is the answer. Let's say we're walking. So literally go outside your house. Do I want to go left? Do I want to go right? Do I want to go straight? Whatever the options are. And just check in and listen and just continue doing that. Go to the end of the street. Do I want to go left? Do I want to go right? Check in with that. Keep going, like, and just play with that. See where you end up. Like, see what you see. Like, I remember I was playing— sometimes I'll just do it when I'm like going home, like I've picked the kids up from somewhere. I've dropped them off and I'm like, okay, I'll just play it going home. And I was doing it and like, I just— this isn't a big thing, but I thought it was super cute. And I think it was a little sign that, yes, keep playing with this, it's fun. Because I went a completely different way home than I normally would, as I was just checking in. Do I want to go left? Do I want to go right? And just playing along, let's see where it comes. And then in this quite busy street, this little tiny mouse ran across the road. Oh my God. And the other car in the other direction like had to fully stop while we let this tiny little mouse run across the road. And I was like, do you know what? Like, to me that was like a, like a sign to just keep playing.

Yeah.

Like, instead of being in autopilot, well, I always go that way home, so I'm gonna go that way home. Like, have a play and just see. Like, open your eyes and see what happens.

Yeah.

Maybe nothing might happen, but you don't know. Like, just See, like, just be open to the wonder. If we start checking in to just a simple little thing like that— like, for you, it was probably a bit of a higher stake because the deviation might be way longer or whatever. But if you're driving home, if you take an extra 2 minutes to get there, does it matter if you have a little play along the way?

No.

Oh, I like that.

We have a little play along the way.

There's your homework. Have a little play along the way. And make it fun. Yeah, yeah.

And something— you might see something different. Like Sue said, nothing of interest might happen, but it's just a different experience. And it's, it's telling your body, I'm listening, because your body likes to know that you're listening. And it will— I think if you— the more practice you have at, or the more times you check in and listen, um, the more signals it will give you. It will tell you things loudly or softly, or— but more frequently. And it— you become really in tune with your body. And, and sometimes, yeah, sometimes I still override it, and I know that it's the wrong decision.

I override it all the time.

Yeah.

All the time. All the time. It was just— that was funny when— so I go back to, like, when I'm overwhelmed, I'm like, I go back to my magic toolbox and things that I know work. And I was telling Cass the story, I think I told on one of the other videos, where normally I'll walk on the beach makes me feel good. Anyway, I started walking down to the beach. I really like— I think I was actually exhausted, so needed a nap.

Oh yeah, just needed a nap.

Um, and I was walking down and it was windy and it was blowing, and I was like, I really don't feel like— but I was jamming that peg in. That hole didn't fit. And then a bird shat on me, and I was like, okay, I don't think I can get a clearer signal than that to turn my little Booty around and march myself home. I was like, okay, I hear that's a pretty good sign. Yeah, yeah, that's a pretty good sign that wrong, wrong way, wrong, wrong way, wrong, wrong trick out of the toolbox. Yes. And even just notice like little signs. For example, like I was trying to go up to a friend's house the other day that I needed to find something anyway. And I went up the road I normally go and there was like trucks blocking it. Like little things like that are actually signals. Yeah, not now, not now, not now. You can still go there, it will still be whatever's there, but not right now. Like that, like you were getting signs and signals all the time. Yeah, like a little mouse. Like I've never seen a mouse run across the road ever.

No, neither have I.

No, I have been shat on before, but It doesn't happen every day. It doesn't happen every day. In fact, maybe only twice my whole life. And the other was when you were going for a beach walk.

You were jamming that beach walk down your own throat. I will go and walk on the beach.

Jamming that beach walk down my own throat.

I will walk and I will enjoy it. Help me.

I will dig myself out. I will dig myself out of that. It's like, we are going to— wait, the universe literally shat on me. Uh-uh, wrong answer. So just have a look around, you'll see, and start to feel it in you. Like, that told me in my body exactly where I was headed next— straight for a shower. And then I did. I hopped in my PJs and just watched a funny movie, or like just something. That is actually what my soul needed. I was tired. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there, look up. And I even took— it took me like, I didn't even do it that fast. I was like, okay, I just got shat on. And I was like, kept going. I was like, I— it took me still a few more steps. I'm like, really? Really? Like, I'm gonna really—

I'm gonna continue this.

Like, are you even considering going for the walk covered in bird shit? Like, really? Like, what? Like, would this be maybe an expectation with zero value? Like, because it's in my magic toolbox, so it's going to make me me feel better. It's like literally you're being told it's not, not today, maybe tomorrow, but not today. Completely. So yes, that is it. That's your homework— awareness. And just start playing with listening to your body and your heart and just noticing when this gets in the way.

Yeah, yeah. But you will frequently.

All the time.

All the time. All the time.

It does. And that's okay. And we actually consciously pause ask a question, we're like, okay, do like— and actually you have to pause and consciously ask yourself because we're so used to autopilot and this head is like 5 steps ahead of everything. It doesn't get like— this heart is the sat nav.

Yeah.

The head is the driver, but the heart is the sat nav. It shows you where you're supposed to be going.

Yeah.

That's the, that's the dance between really Camino and 3Life, like Yeah, 3D life. 3D life. Look, it's obviously time for us to end this video if I can't speak words anymore. Yeah. Yes, that's it. That's bringing the space from the Camino to check in into 3D life. Yeah, that you pause and same like you're making a decision, like just start practicing doing it for all your decisions. Yeah.

What, what you wear in the morning, what clothes you put on in the morning, what music you listen to, what you have for breakfast, which way you drive to work. Um, do you take the elevators or the stairs? No, don't, don't take the stairs just because you think you should take the stairs.

If you want to take the stairs, maybe you want to take the elevator. Yeah, yeah, you might have a hamstring that's about to twang. Exactly. Your body knows, you don't. Yeah, or you don't like— or the, the timing That you get into the office, if you took the elevator, you accidentally bump into your boss, that then you share a really good interaction and a good idea comes from it. Like, there's so much that our heads cannot know. Like, that— like, there is so much out there that our hearts know but our heads don't. So this one's the smart one, it's in charge of the direction, and then this is the doer.

The doer.

Yeah, yeah. And this is the— this is your human Being, not a human doing. Thank you, Maureen. We love you, our beautiful, beautiful mentor Maureen. And we are human beings, so we are supposed to be. We are not human doings. And she looks at me right in the eye. Says that every time. I'm looking at you, kid. Yeah. And this is the doer. This one. Jamming. Important, very important. When it's directed with the right guidance system.

Yes.

That's it. They have to work in sync. You can't have one without the other. We can't. Like, the heart would just— well, it'd be killed. You'd be killed because there's no, like, head safety, or like, don't put your hand in that, um, in that naked flame on the gas stove, because that is— that, that's the head knowing that that will burn you.

Yeah, yeah. Autopilot is needed for the doing, but not for the being, not the driving.

Yeah, the guidance system. Okay, we have waffled now. Okay, we love you lots. See you soon. Bye.