Body Shame After 50: The Part No One Talks About

Hi, this is Suzanne Noble, and you're listening to Sex Advice for Seniors. Have you ever considered taking all of your clothes off and letting somebody paint your naked body? Personally, it's not one of the first things that I think about as being something that I desire, but my guest, Juni Moon, did just that. She's a love coach, she's an expert on love and relationships, and she's done this amazing documentary that you can watch on YouTube called Shed the Shame, where she actually shows the process of removing all her clothes and painting her body. Juni, welcome to Sex Advice for Seniors. Thanks for having me. Yeah. How did you even begin to think about doing that? Like, what was that about?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, it's definitely, uh, there's a lot to it. So I had a live streaming show at the time before I started my podcast. And I had access to this very well-known body painter, internationally known body painter Andy Golub. And I was like, wow, he talks about the beauty of the body. He talks about the expression of the body and it not being just about sex, you know, just all the good stuff. And I was like, you know what, this is a great topic. So let me talk to him first. Let me get a sense of what he's up to. And in that conversation, uh, I said, you know what, how would you like to paint my body while we're doing the interview? And he said, sure, that sounds great. And then of course the next moment, like my stomach went into knots because I'm like, oh my God, he paints naked people, you know? And then I said, you know what, I need to think about this. And my work that I do is that internal work of really making sure my choices are conscious and I'm not doing things out of the programming and the beliefs I have. So I was like, is this, is this just to get more eyes on me and make me famous or infamous? Or do I really have a message here? And after a month, I really thought about it. After a month, I realized there was more risk in not doing it than doing it. I have had, and still to some degree now, have struggled with body image and body shame my whole life. I was afraid to be seen. I didn't want to go to pool parties. I missed out on a lot of life.. And the fact that I could even consider doing this had me realize something has changed. So I was like, well, if I'm gonna do it, let's go full out. So I, I hired a videographer and I created my mini documentary, went to film festivals. Could you imagine sitting in a movie theater, a huge, huge screen, and there I am naked as naked could be. So I really wanted to give that message that healing is possible. That you could befriend your body, that you could love your body, and it doesn't have to be perfect. So that's why I did it.

Yeah, it's amazing. And, you know, similarly, I've, I've been many times to a place that's a bit Marmite, as we say in the UK, which means either you love it or you hate it, called the Cap d'Agde, which is this naturist/swinging village in France. It's an actual, it's an actual town of naked people. And, um, during the high season there, there's 40,000 naked people wandering around and you do your food shopping naked. You go on the beach naked, you cycle naked with a little towel on the seat.

I've heard of this.

Yeah, it's a very, very well-known place. And it's the only place like it in the world. Obviously there's loads of naturist beaches throughout the world. And I remember the first time when I arrived there with some friends. And there's a sign as soon as you get in the village to basically take your clothes off. There's like a stop sign, except instead of a stop sign, there's a bikini with a line through it. Right.

No clothes allowed. My goodness. I had no idea.

Yeah. And it's a freaky experience when you first take your clothes off and you're, you're standing there completely naked as a middle-aged person. But then of course what I saw was lots of other middle-aged people because there's a huge amount of people there that are, I would say, 50 all the way up to their 80s or even beyond that. And you see that the body in its human form is, comes in all shapes and sizes. And even those women that look perfect with their clothes on, when they get their clothes off, you know, they got stretch marks, they've got, you know, they've got whatever going on. They've got scars, they've got, They've got all sorts of stuff and you, and you realize that, you know, we are all very different. And I think going to that place gave me so much body confidence because I suspect a bit like you, I grew up with problems around eating, you know, feeling like being skinny was the desirable, you know, body shape, spending time being bulimic and stuff like that. And, you know, just generally not being content with my own body. And yeah. Took its toll for most of my adult life, frankly. So, and I hear from lots and lots of older people that, and the thing they struggle most with is, you know, women with the menopause in that middle section that suddenly appears out of nowhere and you're just like, when, how can I get this to go away? What's your advice other than paint your body naked?

Yeah, well, again, you know, I did it to send a message out, but I have so many people say, but I don't want to I don't want to get painted to, to get to that place. And probably people aren't going to want to do the next thing I'm about to say, which is piggybacking on what you said, which is I had so much healing by being on nude beaches for the same reason. Yeah. It just suddenly brought me back to reality that the body is unique and beautiful and different. And even if somebody looked a little bit more perfect than me, they still have their issues. In fact, when I was, when I was Recording my film, I also did interviews with a lot of different people. It didn't make the cut, but in those interviews, some of the people that I would've thought never even thought about their bodies, people that I would like drool to look like, you know, they had issues, they had challenges, they had insecurities. It came back to just having deep compassion for being human. So to your question about this lovely stage of life and the belly that I keep going, Hmm, what's that about? You know, let's, let's face it. We have, we have been taught we're supposed to look a certain way and it's supported constantly wherever we look on social media, from friends, you know, reinforcing, oh, you look so good, you know, and you know, if you lose some weight and then the, you know, silent, if they, you know, you gain it right back. There's so much compassion. I know I just used that word, but I really think that's such a huge thing that we need to have for ourselves as our bodies change and that We still have so much beauty and so much value and so much wisdom. And Mike, like, literally always is around me and touching me and going, I love every curve, every inch of you, because I am not my body. You know, my body is a vehicle. And I say this in the film, it's a vehicle. It's holding my beautiful spirit. And that's a lot of yap yap for, you know, we can say that, oh, my body's beautiful. But if there's a lot of old messaging that's making us feel not enough, or what are they going to think? I mean, I primarily work with women in the second half of life that are looking for love and starting over, and they're like, my boobs aren't as perky anymore, and who's going to want me with my butt hanging down? And I'm just like, you know what? First of all, guys have issues too. Believe me, they have issues too. They may not be focusing on their belly, but they might be focusing on the fact that their, their guy doesn't work as well as it used to work. You know, we all have our things. And I think it gives us an opportunity if we take it to really be gentle with ourselves and do what you need to do to love yourself up. Because the old beliefs of you have to look a certain way, we were given that message and it's just not true. And when we can really do that reprogramming, which is my specialty, is to like really get to the core of like, why do we feel so inadequate? And then take back our power. It's not like I look in the mirror and go, ooh baby, baby. But I mean, I feel comfortable in my body and I feel beautiful in my body. And it's taken a journey to get here, but it doesn't have to end there for people and just, oh gosh, no one's going to want me or love me, but we need to love ourselves first. We need to truly give to ourselves and then we can open and take our clothes off and we don't have to take our clothes off right away either. Ladies, you could go slowly. Go slowly.

And I always say that, you know, the wonderful thing for, you know, about things like lingerie, for example, is that putting on something silky like a silky robe or just like a sexy nightie or something like that, if that's what you need to do to feel confident about you know, yourself and feeling sexual, then great. I mean, I'm all for keeping your clothes on during sex, frankly. I think like sexy clothes, whatever works, man, whatever works. It's like, yeah, great. And I also think that, you know, one of the things going back to the CAFDAC and just meeting larger people who were completely embracing their size was that there is something so sexy about that. When a larger person is so confident about their curves and their, you know, all of that.

Confidence is sexy. We radiate. We're like shining. Exactly.

It's sexy. And I've met lots of larger people who are just really super sexy because they're just owning it. And I think part of it is about being around people that do make you feel the best version of yourself. You know, they give you— they make you feel beautiful and confident. As you said, your partner tells you, you are so hot, and I love all your curves, and I love your boobs.

And so wonderful.

Yeah, it's great. That's great.

You know, but here's the thing I want to add to that is if I wasn't feeling good inside of myself, if I wasn't loving up myself, if I was like, oh my God, I'm so ugly, I'm so fat, and he's bringing that stuff on, I wouldn't be able to take that in. I wouldn't be able to enjoy it because I don't believe it. But I do, mostly.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I remember during the film that you were in particular looking, you know, kind of gazing at your own naked body and reflecting on some of the parts of that that you were perhaps less than happy with. And I think we've all got that inside of us, don't we? I mean, you know, sometimes I take a little naked picture and I send it to somebody that wants it. And I'm, I'm, I'm trying to reorganize the geometry so that angle is like, boobs don't look quite so droopy and, and, and all of that and trying to make myself see, you know, and he's He's just happy seeing my boobs, frankly. Right.

Right.

They're just happy to be in our presence and having fun, you know?

And you're having fun. And that's what I love. And when we can have fun and laugh about it, then it's another whole ballgame for sure. Yeah. And it's an inside job to a large extent, you know, and we just have to just keep laughing. I mean, seriously, because our bodies are going to keep changing and I can't I tell you, I've watched that film, I don't know, maybe once a year I'll revisit it just for whatever reason it pops up. And some of the things I thought about it in the past, because I made it in 2016, when I look at it and I— yeah, it was a while ago. And when I, when I looked at it, I'd be like, oh wow, I don't even see what I saw back then. I'm seeing thinner, more gorgeous, more like— but back then I was like, Well, okay, I'll do this and, you know, good enough. And, you know, I feel free, but there's a little bit of a, mm, not so sure, you know?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I think you were very brave to do that, frankly. I mean, also, I did wonder just around the actual process when I was watching you getting painted, I was reflecting on massages that I've had, like really light touch massages where they're just like gently where my skin is just like very tickly.

Yes, it tickles. It tickles.

And I wanted to— And did your skin start to like perk up a bit through the process of all that touching over such a long— I assume it took hours, right?

It took at least an hour, like probably an hour and a half. Yeah, it took a while. He was smart. He deals with naked people all the time. So he had the heat way up. It was hot, hot, hot in there. So that was smart because the paint is cold, you know, and the brush is light. So yeah, so there were times of tickling. Yeah. Times of, ooh, didn't expect that to feel like that. But overall it was way more comfortable than I thought because he had the heat on so high.

Oh, really? Yeah. Because I was also thinking about like, were you cold? I mean, just all of you know.

No, in the snow I was cold. There's a part, I don't know if you saw that piece, piece during the credits. So anybody who watches, make sure you wait till the credits because there's another clip that's added in the credits. And that was a little cold. That was in the piece, and I was naked.

Oh my God.

It was so fun, though. It was great.

Yeah. Yeah. And like I said, I think all of this is what can we do as women? And I think we should talk as men as well because I think there's two aspects to this. One is that you have to love yourself for other people and love your own body and be confident about that, for other people to also feel good in your presence. But the flip side of that, of course, is that men are quite judgmental and can be, they can be quite judgmental and they've been trained to. Often when I talk about, cause I write about sex as well as do this. And I had a conversation the other day with a guy who's another writer asking, why is it that men find it so difficult to write about sex? And I said, I suspect that part of that is that they are so visual that often what they write about is what I call the geometry. So they're looking at the body parts and they're seeing the curve and the waist and this and that. And they're kind of, they're kind of putting that all together in their head. Whereas often as women, we're distracted by a sound or there's something hanging on the wall where like, where did you get that picture from? What's that all about?

Very different awareness for sure.

Like our awareness is kind of much more spatial. Rather than just focused on that geometry. And as a result of that, I think that men sometimes can become overly preoccupied with, you know, a certain look, a certain figure, a certain type of body shape that neglects so many other women that perhaps might be, you know, potential partners.

Yeah, I know. I think it's very valid. I think it's very true, definitely. And I don't know the younger generation. But when I was growing up in my 20s and 30s, even 40s, that was very true. And there are a lot of guys out there that missed an opportunity with me because I was always curvy. And I remember this one guy that I potentially was, was gonna date, and when we met, I wasn't attracted to him either, I have to admit that. But, you know, I was not his type because I had curves, and we had to have a real honest conversation about it. So yeah, guys are trained just like us to— well, guys especially, to be very visual. They're very visual. It's not even training, it's just reality. And guys can be very, you know, very uber-focused on one thing, you know, the hunt, right? Versus the women had to take care of the tribe and the kids and making sure nothing was going to happen. Do you see a change as we get older? I do. There are still some men, of course, that are going to be very, I'm looking for this type of woman. Porn has really messed up guys, really, you know, especially if they've been alone for a long time, then they really are looking for a very— they're wired, they're wired to look for a certain kind of woman, and women that are not going to hit that standard, how many are, they're gonna be missing out. And I think men have softened as they get older too. I think they have. I think they've lived. And, and so we have to be careful not to throw all men in this, they're only looking for the perfect woman or younger women. I mean, my guy literally was like, I'm looking for a postmenopausal woman. That's what he was looking for. He was like, I don't wanna have any babies. I want someone who's been through menopause and I don't have to go through that. You know, and the wisdom and all the goodies, right? All the goodies. So yes, men are going to be more wired that way and it's limiting for them and it sucks for them in that way. But I do think men, as, as time goes on, they do open more. They do open more because they also want to find a connection and they also can laugh more about this journey of bodies changing. And again, they're also very vulnerable too.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I think that's, that's very true is, you know, men are, men are struggling with other aspects sometimes around their own libido or, or, you know, erectile function and all sorts of other things. And also it does amuse me just in terms of body shape that, you know, often we see that, you know, up to a certain age, I always say this is like, there's men will look a certain way for— I'm living in Thailand at the moment and I'm surrounded by these digital nomads who were mostly guys in their late 20s and 30s. So yeah, literally guys that I'm looking at them and they're just like, they're just carved out of rock, these men, right?

Like they're just, just because they're doing yoga every day.

Surrounding me, these guys, they're just like, so like, oh my God, I could, I've forgotten like just how amazing young men, and don't get me wrong, the young women are also to die for. I went out, I bet, the other night and I was with a Taiwanese woman who was just amazingly gorgeous. And the woman next to her was Russian. She was just outstanding. I was like, "God, you girl, everybody's so beautiful here." But, but then of course, what happens is that, you know, they've been eating whatever the hell they want. And then 40 or whatever comes along and suddenly things start changing, right? Like a little belly might start appearing and the, you know, the muscle tone isn't quiet what it used to be and all of that. And then, you know, by the time they're 60, for a lot of them, that relationship they had with their body back in their 20s is long gone, long gone. And they've got a completely different body that, you know, some of them are like, yeah, so what is my body? My funny story is I'm, I, I'm really into fitness and I like being with people who are equally into fitness because You know, it's a thing and we just have a thing. So I met this guy, had a very large stomach, like one of those stomachs that's like, like a big, like a big beach ball in his tummy, right? Huge, huge, right? And he loves shopping and I'm not, I'm not big on shopping. So we went shopping together and he tried on this jacket and he couldn't close it. He couldn't close it. Right. And I said to him, you know, maybe if you, if you lost a bit of weight, and your tummy went down, you'd be able to close your jacket. And he goes, what are you saying? I'm saying that the jacket doesn't close is what I'm saying. And I'm saying that if you wanted the jacket to close, there's only one way that that's going to happen. And that's like, oh my gosh, like there's nothing, it's fairly obvious what I'm saying. It's like, you got to lose the belly, right? That's the way the jacket's going to close. Otherwise you got to buy a bigger size. That's it.

And he just said, there you go.

And he just looked at me like, and I could see he was really quite offended by this, that I'd suggested to him that the jacket might close if he just lost the belly. And I thought the lack of awareness around that was so unbelievable to me because as a woman, I'm completely aware from one day to the next, whether my clothes fit well, whether they don't fit well. Whether I feel a bit bloated, whether I don't feel a bit bloated. Like every time I'm, I'm just present in my body, right? Like it's, it's this thing I carry around, but I'm very cognizant of like, I don't feel as good today because, you know, I had a big meal last night. Just, I just feel a bit discomfort around that. But he was just like wandering around like, whoa, commenting on my tummy. Who the hell are you?

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and again, who knows what he knows, what he's thinking. At the end of the day, people sometimes really are unaware of their bodies, men and women. But definitely women are so much more in tune with the bloat of the day to day, the scale. I mean, I just want to take that friggin scale and throw it out the window. It's like, oh, I'm having a good day. Oh, I'm having a bad day. You know, it's like Seriously, a number is going to affect my day. Thankfully, that is not the case anywhere, but that was what I lived with. And, and, and women struggle and men, again, I don't know what's in their minds or, you know, between their ears, but they, they don't seem to be that aware of it or focused on it the way we are. And I think they look great, you know, and I can look and go, you know, I kind of prefer less weight myself, but you know, I mean, for me, it's about health issues.

I mean, I just think at the age that we are now, body confidence, feeling, you know, feeling great about our body is really important, but it's also important to think about how it impacts on our health. And that's, for me, that's just like fundamental because everything comes down to being healthy is being happy as an older person. And if you're not healthy, then old age can really suck. It sucks. But if you're, if you're healthy, my, my parents are both in their late 80s, both still alive, healthy. And that makes a tremendous difference to how they deal with each other and also just deal with the rest of the world.

Health is everything. Being vital, being alive. Yeah. If our bodies aren't working, I mean, I'm so grateful that I was like, definitely in my profile and my intention when I called in my partner, was somebody health conscious. And boy, did I get that. Keith, that's like so— it's so important to him. He's a naturopath, he's a functional doctor, he's built, man. And, you know, to the point where I was like, ooh, how do I match up, keep up with him, you know? But again, it's all good, you know. I'm very focused on my health too. It's important to me. I want to be the best I can be without the whip, because the whip used to be there. I had to look a certain way, I had to have a certain number on the scale. And now, again, I don't want to just say I'm like done with this. It's like I still am like, where can my body go? How much stronger or fitter can I be? Can I really change this belly? Because the belly is getting in the way of some of my clothes. I mean, seriously, I'm just like, I really miss those jeans. But at some point, I'm going to be like, well, this is my body, and I will accept it. Right now, I'm Yeah. Having some conversations with it. I'm like, really? Really?

Yeah. I mean, you know, for me, what I've realized is being out in a country where it's sunny every day and warm, then I can get out and I can walk. And I look at my little Fitbit every day and it's like 14,000 steps, 20,000 steps. And it's not even that I've realized I've even done it. So for me, fitness and being healthy, I'm also doing Muay Thai, which is hysterical. So I'm like the oldest person doing this, like intense boxing, kicking the Oh, that's awesome.

24-year-old.

That's really funny. I've got a big bruise on my leg where I've been kicking too hard. But, you know, I think you have to find the physical fitness that works for you, you know, and if you can do that, whether it's getting outside and walking every day, whether it's going to the gym, whether it's playing— I have my friend plays tennis twice a week. She's in her 70s. She just loves tennis. Doesn't matter where.

It's a way to stay young.

Decide, you know, what it is, she'll go out there and she'll do it. And everybody I know who, you know, they may not like the gym, but they may like playing football, like soccer, with their— with a bunch of old guys and just kicking a ball around, right? It's just, you got to make it work for you because otherwise you're not going to do it. And if you don't—

having the commitment to doing it. I mean, I'm in New Jersey and it is so cold. Like, we are in the teens every single day right now. And I was just in Florida. For a couple of weeks for a conference, and I was walking and being outside, and I was loving it. And I came back, and I'm just like, I don't want to go outside. I'm like, well, that's not going to work because I like walking. So today I went over to the Y, and I got a membership because I want to be able to walk. I can't just go, well, it's winter. I'm not going to move my body. That's not going to work for me. I'm so highly committed to feeling good. So yeah, keep moving. And why? Because I want to feel alive and I want to be able to live really long and quality life. Yeah.

Yeah. And I think, you know, yeah. Today being, you know, what I've realized getting back to the whole sex thing is that being somewhere, being somewhere like this and being physically active and everything is making me like super horny. And I'm just not, I'm not really. I've got a 40-year-old who's around the corner who seems quite keen. So that's That's good. And another couple that are sort of around, but fun. Just realized that actually, you know, what I need to feel sexual is I need to feel like motivated to move, right? I need to feel, you know, and I need to feel the sun and it's sort of like, I need to take myself to places where I get that energy, that vitamin D, that energy, that motivation to just get out and do stuff. Because as soon as I'm sitting around in the cold doing nothing, the last thing on my mind is sex. The last thing. I'm not thinking about it. And yeah, yeah, I'm just not thinking about it at all. I'm just thinking about getting warm. So I think it's also like recognizing what do you need to do to feel sexual, you know? Yeah.

I'm sorry, go ahead.

Yeah, no, that's it.

No, I was just going to say, and when we move our bodies, we're moving our energy. We are mostly energy and energy stagnating. It's like, it feels heavy and it's not going to have us feel happy or excited. But when we're moving that energy, there's that vibrancy. There's that excitement. There's that ooh baby, you know, like, you know, let's, let's see what's going on down the street, you know? So I get it. You know, movement is so key. It's like my mom is 85 and she's got a heart— she has got a heart thing going on and she's, she's okay, but it's so limiting and she like can't walk as far as she used to. She can't be as active. And she's, she's definitely changed through the last couple of years because of her physical limitation of walking. So movement is life. Movement is key. Breathing is key. Like all of, all of the easy things that were given— movement and breathing— it's right here. And that so lends to having a great sex life. Absolutely.

Yeah, 100%. Juni, I know it's late where you are, so I'm— it's all good.

It's all good. I didn't want to miss an opportunity to talk about sex and body image and what's possible when you're over 50 or 60. 60 in my case.

Yeah, me too. Yeah. And you gotta check out the Cap d'Agde, babe, cuz I think you'd really like that because it's super fun. Oh my God.

How do you spell that?

C-A-P like cap, like the cap on your head.

Yeah.

And then D for dog apostrophe A-G-D-E. Cap. It's Cap d'Agde is how they pronounce it. And it's wow. Yeah. And honestly it is If you've never been to a naturist village, it's just, it's wild.

I've been to places that were clothing optional and lots of naked people walking around. But this, this, this sounds like an experience I want to have. Wow. And it is so freeing being naked too. It just feels so good. Yeah.

Yeah. And it's France, you know, it's France. So you get the great food, you get the, you get the fishing village down the road where they, where they just sell Amazing food. Lovely. It's in the Languedoc, so beautiful villages around, and it's a super fun place to go. But yeah, it's a once in a lifetime experience. And I know that there's quite a number of people who would go, I would never go to that in a million years. But I have to say that if you just want to dip your toe into what it's like to be naked all the time in terms, like I said, going back to the beginning, in terms of body confidence, it's like a boost. It's just like given this big boost where you just look around and go, I'm okay. I'm okay. Everybody else is okay too. You know, we're all okay.

Yeah.

It's really, really—

and people are so nice. It's a really interesting thing. Yeah. When I've gone to nude beaches or some of the other places, because my ex-husband was a nudist, so we would go to places. Yeah. And I just found getting rid of the clothes kind of got rid of the personality on some level. Yeah. The levels or whatever. It just opened people up and people were just so kind. They were just real. It doesn't get more real than that.

No, 100%. Anyway, have a lovely, lovely evening. Go to bed.

Thank you. Get some, some rest.

And my day is just beginning. Take care.

Well, enjoy your wonderful day. Ciao.