Episode 103: What Happens at a Couples Retreat

Hi, I'm Suzanne Noble, and you're listening to Sex Advice for Seniors. And I am here today with Kanya Ford from Richmond, Virginia. So she's got the most fab Southern accent, is a sexuality and relationship coach, and One of the things I wanted to talk to you about, Kanya, was this retreat that you host for couples, because that sounds really interesting and I'm curious to know what goes on. So welcome to the show.

Thank you for having me. I'm super excited to be here. Cool.

So you run this retreat and then we just finished— you said it was in April, the last one. What's, what's that all about?

So, um, I've always wanted to do a retreat because I enjoy— I just like the idea of them, but I wanted to do it a little bit differently. And so one year around October, I was like, hey, April Fools is coming up, so let's do the retreat around that time. So we call it Fools in Love Couples Retreat. So it's always hovering around that time, and I feel like when you are able to take people out of their normal environment, you can lay out issues and problems a little more clear. And so we come together. I don't take more than 5 couples per retreat, and we really dig into all of those little nuances that we kind of sweep under the rug normally. You know, I don't like the way you chew. Well, let's talk about that. Those things that we just, we don't have time to do in our everyday life. We go away to a little, um, it's a, it's like a resort in Williamsburg, Virginia. And so, yep, they, everyone gets their own 2-bedroom, 2-bathroom balcony, full kitchen. All of that is included. You just show up because I don't want you to worry about anything else. And the fun thing is each year I introduce something exciting and new. And so this year we introduced our shock collars.

Okay. Yes.

But no one was allowed to use a shock. That was, that was the stipulation. And they didn't leave the common area that we all share together because I just knew that that was going to be not the best idea. So we talk, we talk a lot. We do a lot of purposeful activities. We have community lunches and dinners, so we all eat together. And what I like about this retreat versus some of the others that I hear about is each couple really support talk to and aid one another. Because I know the importance of having other married friends. Yeah. Because you go through a situation and, you know, who do you really talk to? You know, maybe you don't want to get a full-blown therapist and family can be kind of one-sided. So to hear other marital couples having almost the same thing and you're like, oh, I never heard it said from someone else. Maybe I am being ridiculous about this thing.

Yeah.

Yeah. So that's always fun.

Interesting. And how long does this go on for?

The couples have a choice to come in either on a Thursday or Friday, and then we leave. We do a little bit on Sunday, so half a day on Sunday. So Thursday through about Sunday afternoon.

Wow. That's a pretty long time to be dealing with all that stuff? Do you find that it gets pretty emotionally intense?

Oh yeah. I remember my first year we had one, one of the couples, the gentleman, he actually, he, his temper went through the roof. He exploded and he walked out. And honestly, that's What I can, I encourage that because I'd rather see what truly happens at home in an environment where we can talk about it. So when he came back the next day and he apologized, I was like, I accept it, but I don't ever want you to apologize for having emotions and feelings, but let's talk through it. So it does, it gets very, there are happy tears, there's sad tears, there are enraged tears, there are frustration tears. Lots of smiles, lots of laughs. It's a range of emotions.

And is it mainly for people that want to deepen a sexual connection or an emo— what's the motivation that people come on these sorts of things?

Some do come to— no pun intended— some couples do come to the retreat so that they can kind of reignite that sexual passion that was had, that was lost. Um, some come because they're truly— they feel like, I'm at the brink of divorce and I don't, I don't know where else to turn, and this may be my last hurrah. And some come before they're even married, which I can appreciate because that same year— this was 4 years ago— that couple, when I talked to them afterwards, because I keep in touch with my couples You know, they learn things about themselves and one another that here we are 4 years later, they're no longer together because they could not get past those things that they were kind of faking it before that conference. So I can appreciate that like so much.

Yeah, I was going to say, like with such a small group of people, it's impossible to hide.

Yes.

I mean, you know, you're really laying it all out. And what happens if one couple is like all sort of, you know, they're, they just want to have better sex or reignite the sex, and another couple turns up and they're really on the brink of breaking up. Does that create some stress in, within such a small group? Like, how do you manage that?

The cool thing is, in addition to the group sessions that we do, everyone has individual sessions. So one person's kind of hangup doesn't hinder another. And I always make room even outside of the scheduled times of appointments. The couples have full access to me the entire weekend. I try to give them time to go off and, you know, have fun on the resort, try not to jam-pack their day. But they know that they can come to me at any time, individually or together, so that one person's hang-up is never really, you know, like, hey, I'm really here to build my relationship and all you want to do is have sex more than 3 times a day. That's—

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And do you find that Some people come to the retreat where one person's very enthusiastic and the other person feels as if they've kind of been dragged into it.

Usually day one is where we find that imbalance. You know, of course, everybody's nerves are like all over the place, but you can tell from day one who was like, I booked this for us because we need it versus I'm just here because I was dragged here. But by the end of day 1 and into day 2, everyone starts to get on the same page of alignment because I'm super neutral. And once each person recognizes that, oh, this is not a— because this person booked it, they're going to be on their side. I tell them straight up, my favorite people are at 6325, which is my home address. So no one here is a favorite. You know, and I address things in the open unless it's like, you know, super, super sensitive. For the most part, everything is in the open. And that's where I think couples open up and say, okay, I don't feel like if I wanted to make a point that you would ignore it because of who booked it or she's a woman and I'm a man or things like that. So I make it extremely clear that transparency and neutrality is Everything.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And you just yourself or most of these people, people that are your current clients or you, how many of these people have never experienced anything like this before and you've not met them?

Every year. So for the last 4 years, I think I had out of about 10 couples, maybe one that's ever been to a retreat before. But every single person that has been to something similar, um, has told me they've never been to one like this. And one, the one guy who went, I was like, you know, I was thinking about making it more traditional. He was like, no, you have to keep this just like this. So I was like, that was confirmation, that's all I needed.

So most people makes it so special for them?

Because it's not a large crowd, number one. That's the biggest thing because it's so small and so intimate and because the activities are not— they seem normal. But once we finish the activity and we talk about it and it's related back to home life, that's the piece that I think that they genuinely enjoy and find unique. Because now you have a reference point. Like if we did a painting activity, there is a purpose in that painting. So when it's up in the house, it's a reminder of, okay, I'm about to get to this angry place. I need to remember how I come out of that and how I communicate a lot better.

Right, right. So there's some like useful practical tips that people can take away with them. So that when they get home, it's not like, oh, we did all that and now we're just going to go back to the way we were.

Exactly. Everyone gets a welcome basket that is full of things that we use in our activities as well as things they just have— they can have fun with later on.

Yeah. What are some examples of that?

So like we have our yoga mat because we do classes I do classes here, so we do some of those classes there. We have— there's pajama sets that everybody gets just for that bonding piece. We have some little toys that they can play with on purpose because I know that's a touchy subject, introducing toys into the bedroom. So we have that in the basket. Um, it's a whole bunch of little knickknacks that we throw in there that serves as reminders for the future.

And what's the average age of the people that come on this?

I would say anywhere between 35 to 45. Um, yeah, we had some older, but given an actual average, um, as the years have gone on, my couples are getting older, which I can appreciate because I think that's where it's needed. We need that refresh and that reset, you know. Being married for 20-plus years, you kind of get into this, this, this routine. It's like once a year you go get your car inspected. Yeah, I think once a year, every couple of years, you should get your marriage inspected.

You know, I think that's, that's actually a really great suggestion because I think we get lazy, right? In, in any— whether you're married or just in a long-term relationship, you get into predictable patterns and you think, yeah, okay, this seems to be going along until one person says, do you know what, I'm so bored. I'm so sick of that, right? But often the other person might take that as I'm not good enough or she's sick of me or he's sick of me or, you know, and it's difficult to make that shift sometimes into something different because you don't know what different looks like. And different, different can be scary, you know, different can be risky and different as, you know, might lead to something like people breaking up, or it might lead to you having a deeper connection. But, but the thing is, it's just the fear of the unknown that stops many of us, I think, from making those changes that we need to make in our relationships. And do you find there's any cultural mix of people or is it all different kinds of people?

It's a good, diverse cultural mix, which I love. I genuinely, I can appreciate that we just don't have one dynamic. Um, because we have to be able to see things from all lenses, you know, different religious background, cultural backgrounds, races, um, classes, all come to this one place to realize when we strip all of that away, we're just that human being that needs to understand, needs to be loved, needs learn how to grow into this new phase of us. And that's super appreciated.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think also it's really great when people see other people and realize like, we're all, you know, we're all very similar like that. We all have our own issues. They're not generally massively different. And, you know, we're all dealing with the same shit, right?

So, yeah.

And so aside from your retreats, how do you work with couples, singles? Do you have groups? How do you generally work with people?

So I do do one-on-one coaching with couples as well as individuals. But the biggest thing that I've been doing a lot more of are my classes, the group classes. So it's a series, it's called Mind Fucked, but it's P-H-U-C-K-E-D. Okay, all about— it's all about utilizing the mind to set the body free with each other. And so within that, there are 4 series. We have the Couples Sensual Touch Yoga class, we have a class that's just called Touch, we have our Pleasure— Couples Pleasure Mapping 101, and then our Couples Deep Stretch class. And those are fun bonding classes that, yes, you take that home and that's a new communication piece for folks because 2 of the 4 are nonverbal classes. So, wow, you can't use your words.

Oh, amazing. And these are in-person or online?

Right now they're in-person.

Oh, great.

Once I get a little bit better with my Zoom, because, you know, Zoom has a thing with the background noise that they cut off, but you can turn it back on. So once I get better with being able to have the music translate over, then I'll do more online.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So people meet in a physical place and they go and again, they go through this series of exercises. And is this over every week? They do this every week for 4 weeks.

Or it's some— right now they're just one-off classes. Okay. I have about 3 a month is what I have scheduled. Um, I just recently launched where it's a sampler class so that you can come and do all 4 in one day to kind of figure out which one do I want to do for a full class.

Oh, I see. Oh, cool, cool. And which one's the most popular at the moment?

The Central Touch Yoga class.

And what does that involve?

It's truly— it's nonverbal communication and body movement. So when we do different movements, it's— I want your body to, to show where you need your partner's hand to be, or how much you need them to support you when you're leaning back, or are you truly letting your weight go? Like, are you, you know, releasing all of— because so there's usually a relationship where one person holds on to all of the cards, they're the controller, and then there's that other person that just goes along with it. In this class, we switch roles, and I usually can feel when someone's holding back, and I will— I won't stop that specific exercise. I said, you have to just completely let go, trust this person to hold you. Trust them. The end of that class, the feedback is so across the board universal of, I started the class, I was super intense. By the end, I understood where I'm holding back. And that translates into what they do every day in their life.

Yeah. Wow. Interesting. And that's nonverbal. The whole thing's nonverbal.

At the very beginning, we have 4 phrases that we state, and then at the very end, there are 4 phrases that we restate so we can see if they can feel the different energy exchange.

Wow, very cool. And how long is that for, like an hour?

It's about 45 to 50 minutes.

Yeah, yeah, amazing. I mean, I think that there's, you know, there's also just something to be said for silence in relationships. People often try and fill up space in relationships because they're scared of silence, right? And I think when we're comfortable with another person, like, silence is really very intimate because it means that you're really comfortable with somebody. So when you impose silence, I suspect that can be really a deeply uncomfortable feeling. Oh yeah, for sure.

And, and the learning aspect of it is huge. So for my younger couples that come in, because I do get some younger couples that come in that, you know, they haven't gotten that whole communication piece together, being able to use that, hey, we don't always have to use our words to communicate. Let's just sit, let's just feel each other out for a little bit and then talk. You know, and when my older couples that come in, they're kind of used to that. But this is like, again, it's just a refresh of, okay, ha, I don't have to always say something when something's happening. I can just sit back. Maybe I can just hold you, maybe just hold hands, you know, maybe I can just embrace you and feel what's going on heart to heart. So that's, that's a fun thing to watch.

Yeah, and does it get quite, um, erotically charged?

It can, because the very end— because we kind of go through the chakras, right?

Right.

And we usually end with the sacral chakra, um, and there's one where, um, the face needs to meet the other person's genitals and speak without the words. And then at the end we have pelvis to pelvis to charge up that energy. So, oh yeah, it's definitely sexually fueled and charged.

Yeah, but no actual sex goes on, obviously.

Yeah, once they go home, I'm like, release when you get home, have fun.

Well, I mean, you know, this is sort of— I speak a lot to Tantra people, right? And, and a lot of this stuff again relates to things that go on in Tantra around, you know, that sort of exchange of energy, being intimate in a way that's non— you know, that's not entirely sexual, just relating to somebody in a different sort of way. So I guess you incorporate some of that in what you're doing as well. And yoga and tantra obviously have a very strong relationship with each other.

So yeah, they're like first cousins.

Exactly. No, exactly. So, you know, I always— people always think about these sorts of things and they, and they don't realize that actually some of the things you're suggesting are really simple. We're not— these are not overly complicated things that that we can all do to just support each other to be closer, more intimate, feeling more sexual with the other person. I mean, you know, I always say that when, when you're older, it's important to have these kind of connections because you don't normally feel inclined to just like, you know, have sex straight away. So spending 45 minutes, which for most people is probably longer than they have Next, just having that buildup and that playful touch is— can be, I suppose, really, you know, really arousing for a lot of people.

Absolutely. You can see the closeness, as you know, how they walk in versus how they walk out, how they're rubbing, you know, rubbing the arm a little bit or touching the face. You know, there's one part where we just connect at the foreheads and sometimes, and I tell them, completely open your mind, be free and let your body follow. Sometimes their hands will come up and embrace the face, you know? So being able to quiet the mind from the don't do this, stop this, because I talk about it, quiet the mind and then just let the body take over. Yeah, that energy buildup is huge. Yeah, yeah.

And how long have you been practicing as, as a sex and relationship coach?

I kicked off officially in 2018.

Oh, so not too long ago.

Not too long ago at all. And the classes I just started about 2 and a half years ago.

Oh, wow. Oh, wow. So really recent. So you're, you're kind of post-COVID. Was this a, was this a COVID-inspired like journey that you went on.

Kinda. I think COVID actually was the— it was the uptick in what I was already doing. And I say that because, you know, in 2018 I was still working full-time. Thanks to COVID, I got pushed out of my full-time job. And so I was like, I just dove in headfirst and that's why I did a lot of things online.

Yeah.

So that's why I learned about the music wasn't translating over. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, and I, because I'm working with a couple of post-COVID clients now.

Yeah.

But at that time I recognized how much people just needed people. They needed closeness. Yeah. And that's where, like you said, I thought about like how, what can we do to just bring the closeness? Sometimes the words will mess us up. How can we just be close?

Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, obviously there were a lot of couples during that period of time who probably had never spent that much time together before. So, you know, that wasn't always a positive.

Right.

So, you know, there was there— I suspect there was a greater requirement for just somebody to go, okay, let's work out how you're going to manage 24/7 with this person who's usually gone out to work 8 hours a day.

Exactly. And then you had the ones, you know, coming kind of out of the COVID era, I say 2021, where you were isolated so long that the first person you met, whoo, I'm in love and, you know, we're married. And now we're seeing a lot of COVID divorces. Essentially is what's happening.

Yeah.

And anything that we as, um, you know, relationship therapists and coaches and counselors can do to try to bring them back around to, there was a reason why you connected. You know, granted, we all were in kind of a trauma bond because of COVID but let's see where that real connection is so we can, you know, bring that rate down a little bit from the COVID divorces. But a lot of that is happening now.

Yeah, yeah, sure. I mean, I was with somebody and it was all going really well and then he moved in with me during COVID and that was a disaster. So yeah, total disaster.

You learn a lot about folks.

Yeah, I didn't really want that and I just sort of relented and then I was kind of thrown into this domestic situation which was really unhealthy for me because I don't do well with that. Yeah. Anyway, that's that. Is there anything else you'd like to share with me?

I think, you know, just, just thinking about our senior years because we have to think about that. Just remembering that senior does not mean things are over, things are done, you know, that we can't learn new ways of communication and connecting. You know, how we were raised, which was a totally different era. Yeah, yeah, for sure. That we can come out of that and we can talk about sex. We can be okay with saying, hey, I enjoy it, I like it. You know, if I don't want to just be bogged down with the, the headache of sex all the time, maybe I want intimacy more. So just recognizing that there are outlets and there are places in this. Yes, please be sexual. Please be— please do that. That energy release into the world is necessary right now. So let it flow. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, for a lot of people, it's just about reframing what, what their sexual life looks like at a later age. Right. And as you say, it doesn't— it can— intimacy comes comes in many shapes and sizes, and it doesn't all have to be, you know, penetrative sex. It can be so many different other kinds of things. I often think, though, that, as I, you know, as you acknowledge, part of the reason why, why going to professionals at any stage of life— and I think, you know, especially at a later stage of life— is really important is because they can help you to kind of get unstuck, which I suspect often happens no matter if you're single or coupled, you can just get yourself to the point where you've either gone, well, I'm never going to meet anyone ever again, so I better get over, you know, I'm just going to get used to that. And, and, and online dating is a, it's a mess. I just, you know, it's really difficult. It's not easy to meet someone through online dating. People get very, very frustrated and disheartened. And, you know, on the flip side, people in long-term you know, relationships where they may have been married for 20, 30-plus years, they sometimes feel that there's no way for them to have a conversation that doesn't— that won't end in some form of blame or, you know, anger or whatever. So, you know, I always say to people, look, there's so many great people that I've met doing this podcast that have amazing experience. And, and there's no deadline when it comes to just enjoying yourself. You know, so if you're feeling frustrated and you want to do something about it, there's plenty of help. Like you say, you can go to a group class and do something which I suspect doesn't cost very much money, going to your, you know, your yoga for couples kind of thing. Or, you know, you can spend a bit more cash and you can go to a specialist retreat or you can have one-on-one coaching. But there's so many different ways now that we can really have pleasure well into our later years, if not forever. So, you know, that's why I'm always— I always want to talk to people about what they're doing because I just think it's great. You know, it's great that there's people like you out there doing this stuff. So, yeah.

And I can appreciate that this is, you know, geared for seniors. Because I hate that people just— once you get a certain age, it's like, oh, you know, does it really matter? Yes, it does. It matters, you know. Yeah.

And it's young, you know, that's the bottom line for me. Or I don't really like to use the old versus young analogy, but, you know, it's going to keep us healthy. It's going to, going to stave off disease. It's going to get all those nice juices flowing. Like, there's so many positives to being sexual. Throughout your life. Like, all we have to do now is figure out what, what that looks like at whatever age we are, right? Like, that's it. That's all we got to do. So, yeah. Anyway, thank you so much for coming on the show. It's been wonderful to chat with you. And all the way in Richmond, Virginia.

And I appreciate you so much. Oh, that's okay.

And, uh, do— and we will share all of your details and your, um, what's it called again? Your fuck—

fuck—

oh, Mindfuck. Mindfuck. That's great. Thank you so much.

Alrighty.