Episode 123: Exploring the Sexual Revolution

Suzanne Noble: I'm very excited to welcome our new sponsor, Higher Nature, who have created Rekindle, which I'm currently trying out and is working a treat. A 100% natural libido-enhancing supplement for women, which contains clinically backed ingredients to give your sex life a boost, and who doesn't want that? Hi, this is Suzanne Noble, and you're listening to Sex Advice for Seniors. How many of you have wondered if sex was kind of challenging now, was it any better in the '60s or the '70s during the quote-unquote sexual revolution? Some of us might say Well, you know, getting the pill was great for guys but not so great for women. Some might argue it was good for both sexes, but Sam Feldman is the author of a book called Hookups, Hiccups, and Happenstances: Erotic Short Stories from the Sexual Revolution, and he is here with me today to tell me all about that. I started reading these stories, Sam, so welcome to Sex Advice for Seniors.

Thank you. Pleasure to be here.

And tell me what led you to write this book of sexy stories.

I had written a book prior to this back in 2000. It was on aging, believe it or not, long-term care, caring, financial matters. And I had a ghostwriter. And at the end, the ghostwriter said, congratulations, you did it. But you know, the real test of the author is the second book. And that percolated in me since 2000. And I said, I have to write another book. I have to take up the challenge. And it's either gonna be on basketball, I was a terrific basketball coach, or sex.

Oh, right.

Which is gonna be more interesting? Well, to me it was sex. So that, that was the genesis of the book. And, and going back to the '60s and '70s, there were some, great experiences. And I wanted to talk about women's empowerment, again, the introduction of the pill and availability of no-fault divorce. And so those things were important. And of course, the right to legal abortion. So within the spicy stories, I talk about, again, women's empowerment and give examples of the times and the celebrities and the history of that era.

So when we say erotic short stories, normally that implies these are fictional stories. Or how fictional are they, Sam?

I think there's a saying, in fiction there's truth. I'll leave it at that.

Fair enough, because I didn't know as I was reading these stories, am I reading about the early sexual experiences of Sam Feldman? Because how old are you?

I'm 85.

Oh, you're 85. So there you go. So, so yeah, and it's really, it's such an interesting period period, because, you know, my parents are in their, um, in their late 80s now, and their siblings were, were hippies. And so their siblings were— my aunt and uncle were very much part of that generation of people that I saw kind of, you know, really experiencing all of the festivals, the music festivals, the whole thing around sexual liberation, all You know, all of that sort of stuff. And they were really quite, quite embedded in that, in the American culture of that time and everything that came around that, the early stages of feminism, etc. But my parents weren't. My parents missed it by like a few years and they were quite conservative. So there was a There was a period of time during which it shifted and some of the older people, they just carried on as normal from the '50s really. And then there was a shift. So what was your own trajectory during that period of time?

Well, I was married in my 20s at that time. And so didn't go the psychedelic route, although I had friends who did. But I was married and followed what you would say a normal kind of conservative type lifestyle. But in the book, Butch, the main character in the book, said he was born at the right time and to be there at the sexual empowerment of women. And he was a beneficiary of women's sexual empowerment. So that's how it, took its path.

But he plays out, the character plays out in quite a— the book made me laugh because some of the ways that you describe this period of time and these characters, I feel like I'm being immersed into a 1970s porn movie. You know, there's a certain kind of language around it, which I thought was quite comical in many ways. He's a sort of, he's a kind of cool guy. He's sort of going through all of this and, as you say, benefiting from the empowerment, if you want to call it that, of women. Some might say that that benefit was perhaps in retrospect much more about men than it was about women because, you know, we were fed the, hey, you're not going to get pregnant. And of course, we didn't really know about STIs back then. So we didn't worry so much about that. And it was just more about, hey, we can take this pill and we're not gonna get pregnant. And I suspect for men that just seemed amazing, right?

Yeah, well, I'm glad that you had some laughs because the attempt to put humor throughout the book, but I also wanted to tickle your nipples. So, you know, so maybe you have to read a little bit more of the book Yeah, oh yeah, I mean, there was sexy bits that definitely, definitely sexy bits in it as well.

And so, you know, you talk about that period of time and your own, like, marriage during that period of time. Were you— did you completely miss this? And so is this really more of a fantasy for you, or, um, did you ultimately end up partaking in some of the stuff that was going on at the very early part of the sexual revolution?

Yeah, I was a partaker. And, you know, I'm going to contrast it to the current times. We talk about non-monogamy, ethical non-monogamy today. Back in the '60s, '70s, there was no such term as non-monogamy, let alone ethical non-monogamy. So I'm going to frame it in this sense because when you want to bring it down to personal experiences of the author, my wife was pretty vanilla. Okay. And so at one point I said, hey, hun, let's have a threesome. And her answer was, no, I don't want to do that. But if you want to do that, go ahead. So I made the proposition 3 times. And 3 times the answer was exactly the same. No, you know, don't include me, but if you want to do that. So I kind of consider that ethical non-monogamy. You know, there was a green light and yeah, so I took the green light. And then there was a phrase in a story titled The Corkscrew. And so the, the Butch, the main character, thought he invented this tremendous ménage à trois.

Yeah, I read, I did read that bit actually. And it's interesting because I, I still think that all these terms are, are still relatively new, but as you say, a lot of it is just really about consent. That's it, right? I mean, no matter what you're doing, as long as you're clear with your partner about what you want to do, and they're clear that you're fine to do that, that's fine. Then for me, it doesn't really need a label. Like, if you say that you want to go and be spanked by someone, you don't need to say that I'm into BDSM, you could just say, I just want to go and be spanked by somebody, and they say, well, not by me, right? And, and off you go and find somebody that's going to spank you. So I think all of these terms have kind of Yeah, they've created some clarity around people's interests, desires, fantasies, how they want to be in relationships. But we've always, those of us who have been able to be clear in our relationships, have always been able to do these things. We didn't need, like you said, you asked your wife, she said, nah, not really my thing. You asked her a couple more times just to check that she actually meant that. And then you said, okay, fine, right? And I'm assuming when you did that, that she was still okay with that.

Well, I didn't go back and make a book report. But I will say this, shortly after we got married, you know, to me, the marriage vows, there's no escape clause and relationships are very complicated, obviously. So shortly after we got married, I sat down with my wife and I said, You know what, I'd like to make a suggestion that we form a pact. And very simple. If either one of us falls out of love with the other, let's end it as quickly and as cleanly as we possibly can. Because it's not fair to either one of us to go on in a relationship where the love is gone. And I always relied on that pact. Hopefully my wife remembered it. So, Butch never got outed. Yeah. And he tried to quit the game before getting outed because he knew he was playing with fire. But had he been outed, I always hoped there was that fallback that, look, honey, I love you. I've always loved you. No one else has gotten my love. I had rules for separation of physical or emotional affairs. Always wear your wedding ring. The L word is for— you just don't say the L word. Love is not any part of the equation. You know, let's make it clear, we're here for fun.

Yeah.

So there were certain ground rules, and if the partner couldn't accept that, then cut and run. However, in any good story, at some point Butch was almost falling on his own sword.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, look, it's always challenging when you are playing around in with, you know, people who have their own emotions and their own feelings. You may wander around, and I know this, and friends of mine also have experienced this, where you wander around thinking nobody's getting hurt because I'm not emotionally involved with this person, it's all good. But you find out that actually they're emotionally involved with you. And so, and so then you have to deal with the fallout of that and, and having to navigate people who have feelings and, and feelings of jealousy and, and all sorts of other feelings that come up when you do step out of kind of out of monogamy. But let's go back to the '60s and '70s because it was a pretty awesome time to be living and experiencing all these things. I'm a little bit younger than you, so I sort of I got in— I got a lot of my fun in before HIV and all of that sort of stuff then came along and put the fear of God into everybody. So, you know, for a while there was none. You know, we were pretty much fancy free and living off the tail end really of that '60s and '70s sexual revolution before other stuff started to come along. But what was it like And as you say, there was so much that went on around that time. What were some of those things and how do you feel that they've impacted the world in which we now live?

It's hard to say 'cause there are a lot of personal opportunities, if you will. Butch always seemed to be in the right place at the right time, never making the first move. It wasn't his intention. Really, his occupation allowed for a lot of travel and a lot of travel opened up the doors to opportunities. So again, they were one-on-one experiences. What I'd like to do though is, 'cause you know, this is sex advice for seniors, I'd like to fast forward to I'm 85, sexually active with my spouse, but we do date night. Every Saturday night is date night. So there's pre-pandemic and then post-pandemic, but essentially it's having dinner, going out to see a sexy movie or a rom-com, or now it's staying home, having dinner home, Netflix or Amazon Prime. There are a lot of good sexy shows. And then halfway through the show, Paws, I'll go make margaritas. Back when we used to go to a lounge, she loved lemon drop martinis, I like Cosmos. And then following that, you know, we hit the bedroom and we have sex. And it's, you know, some people might say you do this every Saturday, it's like, how do you do it? It's a chore. You know, is brushing your teeth a chore? You know, You get the benefit of fresh breath and hope you don't get cavities. And so to me and my wife, it's like the benefits of sex, you know, helps relieve pain, helps relieve stress, burn calories. Boy, we burn some calories, I gotta tell you. Boosts moods. And then sleep, improves sleep. Suzanne, I'm going to tell you, after Saturday night sex, date night sex, we both sleep like babies.

That's great to hear. And you know what? I'm a very firm advocate for date night or just put it in the diary sex. I have— I'm not married, but I have somebody that I see on Sundays, mainly on Sundays, and we do the same thing. Just in the afternoon because I get too tired at night. And it's like an afternoon leisurely experience, extremely pleasant for both of us. And yeah, kind of sets me up for the week. And I think the thing about it is, as you say, it does, it does keep you— it helps maintain your health. It helps maintain the connection that you have with your partner. It helps stave off mental problems, mental health issues. Apparently, people that have regular sex in later life don't experience as much dementia. Like, there are literally no bad points. No, there's no negatives to carrying on with sex. And as you say, if you're in a long-term relationship— was there a period during your wife's menopausal years where that was more of a challenge, or Has it just always been that thing in the diary where— because people like Esther Perel have said, for instance, she says, you know, there's sometimes within long-term relationships where one person may not feel like it, but she always says she encourages people to have sex with each other anyway because once you get into it, often it's like, oh, I thought I didn't feel like it, but actually I really do. So what— were there periods of time where you had to move through changes, navigate your own perhaps health challenges around sex? And, and how did you do that, if so?

Yeah, I can't, I can't speak for my wife, obviously. And during that period of time, uh, Butch was out there benefiting from people who were not menopausal.

Yeah.

So yeah, so we kind of skipped over that, you know, it's kind of, again, kind of a vanilla time for my wife. We've been married 61 years.

That's amazing.

So, and she's 83. I'm 85, as we said. And where we're at today didn't happen overnight because in, I think it was like at age 60, we both started working out with a physical trainer. We work out together 3 times a week with a physical trainer. So that has helped us immensely to get where we are today. You know, some people say, 61, how did you, what's the secret to 61 years? She would say, pick your battles. I say we had common interest. We'd like to do the same things. We play tennis and pickleball. I ski, she doesn't. But, and then good sex. Yeah. So that's our formula.

Yeah. And Sam, I mean, I'm totally with you about the physical fitness side being so important. I mean, I've got, look, We both benefit from enormous privilege in being able to afford people like that who can keep us physically active and, and us having the desire to remain physically active, right? Because I think a lot of the key to, if not the whole key to being able to live longer and happier and be happier whilst living longer is remain physically active. So that you remain healthy. Minimize your stress, obviously, is a huge one. And, and just, you know, recognize that what you're, you know, everything that you're putting into your body is what's either going to allow you to remain healthy or not, you know. So if you, if you can afford to eat well and, and you're living in America, right, where eating well costs an absolute arm and a leg, frankly. I mean, it's so expensive. And having a personal trainer, not cheap either. But it's, you know, and then, and then sex, good sex on top of that is, my mother would say also keep learning is also really important. And writing a book as an older person keeps your brain functioning. And as you said, you're like, I wanted to, I was set the challenge. So keep setting yourself challenges.

Absolutely.

So that's the thing. I mean, what does your wife think of this book?

She's been asked that often and she can't really give you an opinion.

Why? She won't read it.

She's had it at a distance. Yeah. In the beginning, I used to ask her to help do a little proofreading, check my spelling. But Yeah, she can't cite chapter and verse. And by the way, I did have a ghostwriter for my first book who I mentioned laid down a challenge. He's since passed, but I was wise enough to get a ghostwriter for the second book also. It's a woman out of San Francisco, Samantha Giles, and, you know, blessings to her for accepting my challenge. To get this book done.

Yeah, I mean, I don't see anything wrong with that. It's still, it's still an achievement to be able to produce a book and to produce erotic stories in your 80s, I think, also is a significant achievement. I mean, I spoke to an erotic and romance writer, Stella Fossey. One of the things that she does, which I really love, and I encourage you to read her, is she positions— most of her characters are older people. So you've gone back in history. Stella puts all her characters as older people in the present day having romantic, fulfilling romantic and sexual lives, and which is again quite unique for that type of literature where usually, of course, it's younger people, or as you've done, you've placed it, you know, back in history. So is there a reason why you decided to do that and not set it in the present day?

There was a Hollywood producer who happened to be friends of a friend of mine, and I bounced my initial stories off of him.

Mm-hmm.

And he's the one that made the suggestion to do a period piece. And I took that and ran with it. So, but you know, going towards writing for older people, there was a French study that came out in 2024, I think, a study of 30,000 people. And one of the findings was that between the ages of 50 and 89, it's like 53% of the women and 76% of men between those ages are still sexually active.

Yeah, yeah.

And there was another study back in 2021 that it was a research paper also that found 10% of people aged 90 and over are still have sexual activity.

Yeah. And as we know, sometimes people with Parkinson's, because of the drugs that they're on, who have dementia, can almost become hypersexual, where they become completely focused in on, on sex, which has its challenges, of course, especially I've spoken to people about what goes on in care homes, for instance. But yeah, it's— that's a whole— that's a whole nother topic. So aside from your date night, Has your— I don't want to get too intimate here unless you fancy it, but has the way that you've had sex changed?

The way that we've had sex has changed. One major change because I had a stroke. We were in Mexico. We go to Mexico every year for about a month, and I had a stroke about 9 years ago in Mexico. So now And since then, I've been on medications, blood pressure medications, blood thinners. And so that's made penetration for me an issue. And I steered away from the pill enhancements. So, you know, that's, that fits into an answer to your question. But you know, there's other things. I got fingers, mouth, tongue, and toys. Toys are wonderful. So, you know, there's a great way. And I've always, if you read about Butch in the book, he was always trying to be the pleaser. It was always someone else's pleasure before his.

Yeah. And I, and I always say to people, there's no, there's no end date. There's no number of birthdays that you need to have or not have to find out about all the different ways that we can enjoy pleasure and about all the different toys that are out there, because ultimately this stuff is there just to help. That's it. It's not— it's just there to help out. It's not replacing any— you know, you're still you with all of your wonderfulness, and so is your partner. And these things are just there to just assist us with stuff that we might need help with. You know, I mean, I don't know about your wife, but it takes me a lot longer to have an orgasm. And frankly, it's nice every once in a while to just whip out some— one of the many vibrators that people give me. And go, oh, what's this one like? You know, and I don't really feel, I feel no shame about that whatsoever. I just think, yeah, what's, what's the problem?

She's killed a few rabbits.

Oh, I've never really been a rabbit girl. I have to say, never been a rabbit girl, but yeah. Good to know though. Good to know. But, um, but yeah, the, the, the whole aspect of, of Oh, you know, much older people. You may actually be the oldest guest that I've, that, that I've had on the show. Is that, is that it's always really encouraging to me when I meet people like yourself and think, yeah, you know, you're just very matter of fact about the fact you're an older guy and you still have sex. I mean, like, like we, this should be a big revelation to us, but I have, I have, um, I believe there's 13 stories in the book.

5 of the stories involve ethical non-monogamy, which again, the term did not exist back then. Yeah. And one of the stories involves someone that Butch met at a conference, a male who was having similar issues, but at a much younger age. He was in his 50s. His wife loved sex. And so I don't wanna give away too much of the story plot, but it became, Butch's suggestion was, you know, there's another way to please her, for her to have pleasure if you can accept it. And that would be like an ethical non-monogamy. If you can sit down and come to some terms with this, 'cause he was very concerned that he was gonna lose her. Because, you know, sex was so important in her life and his too. But due to medical situation, he wasn't able to perform, but he wanted her to be happy.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And like you said, as long as you can work out between you whether there's an emotional relationship with the other person, whether there's not an emotional relationship, like what are the boundaries? Where do we go with this? My parents have a friend who was nearly 90, I think, and he met a woman online and in her 80s, and they have a very happy relationship. And he's lost some of his mobility, so that makes things a little bit more challenging, but they still travel, they still do things, they still enjoy life. So I think opportunities like opening up your relationship, like online dating, All of this is still available no matter what your age. And I suspect there's a lot of people out there think, oh, I'm too old for that. I can't do that. I'm too old for that. I, I'm not going to be able to do that. But I know, you know, as a woman in my 60s that, and I've said it many times, that we can design the kind of relationships that we want, providing we have the energy and the enthusiasm and often the time to go out and find them and to be really clear about what it is that we want.

Right.

So right.

And it takes all those in combination, you know, to get to that point. But to ignore those opportunities is a shame. You're going to lose a lot in life that you're going to miss that you never knew you could have enjoyed. Yeah.

And I think the fact that, you know, you've been able with your wife to be able to continue to have a satisfying sex life, to be able to stick with over 60 years of marriage when I struggle with 60 minutes. I think that's really, that is, no, it is really, it is really, really something. I mean, my parents have also been married for over 60 years and, you know, and I know that they've had various health issues like yourself that have been, that have made some aspects of their relationship more challenging, but you know, they're still together. Still seem happy. So, you know, it is possible. But I think what we all— what I hear from our conversation and from others I've had is that the most important thing is to just keep talking to each other, to keep communicating, to keep having those opportunities to spend time together on a date night, whatever that looks like for you. Margaritas, cosmos, Whatever.

Yeah, sexy movies.

Sexy movies. What's your favorite sexy movie?

Oh, I can't— I, I'm terrible at remembering, you know. And like, my kids are trainers. They're always citing lines from movies 20 years ago, or they've watched the same movie 10 times. I watch it, enjoy it, hopefully enjoy it. And that's it. And so I really don't— top of my mind, I really can't come up with what my favorite one is.

Oh, it doesn't matter. So the book, for everybody who wants to know what it's called again, is Hookups, Hiccups, and Happenstances: Erotic Short Stories from the Sexual Revolution by Sam Feldman. And The little tagline— I love this— is two can do the 69 but it takes three to corkscrew.

Absolutely.

Thank you so much, Sam.

Oh, Suzanne! Susie, I got to tell you because I've been looking at some of your past videos, podcasts, and TikToks, and one sticks in my mind. It keeps playing in my mind. It's that little song you sing. My girl's pussy. I love that. I can't get it out of my head.

I'll send you— I did a show on Sunday, so if I can, I'll dig out, see if somebody made a video of that, and I'll send it to you as my gift.

I'd love it. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.