Episode 128: A New Community for Sensualists

Suzanne Noble: I'm very excited to welcome our new sponsor, Higher Nature, who have created Rekindle, which I'm currently trying out and is working a treat. A 100% natural libido-enhancing supplement for women, which contains clinically backed ingredients to give your sex life a boost, and who doesn't want that?

Hi, this is Suzanne Noble, and you're listening to Sex Advice for Seniors. And you may recall that last year I got the tantalizing, the tantalizing and quite delicious offer of a sensual massage by Colin Richards after I'd interviewed him for the show. And of course, me being me, I had to take him up on that. And I wrote about my experience, that absolutely luscious experience where I was absolutely soaked in oil, soaked in oil, and yes, massaged in all the most delicious ways and felt really like I was floating, floating on a little cloud afterwards. It was quite delightful. It was 1.5 hours and it was like being on holiday. It was so lovely. Anyway, he's back on the show after having quite a horrific start to the new year and ending up in hospital. Hospital with a burst appendix, which I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. But he's feeling much better, thankfully, which is great. And yeah, we're going to talk about some of the new stuff that he's got coming up. So welcome, Colin, back onto the show.

Thank you very much, Suzanne Noble. And yeah, one of the nicer ways to start 2025 is to come and have a chat with you. Put all the past 2 weeks behind into distant memory. And I'm sure you'd have made a much, much better nurse than some of the ones that I have working on me the last couple of weeks. But yeah, back to normal now.

Yes, I actually have a little nurse's outfit. You won't be very surprised to know.

But there was a time in the middle of all the trauma of my burst appendix when the pain was excruciating. I thought, having lived the last 20 years of giving immense pleasure to people, maybe this was my payback. That I had to balance it out with this god-awful pain. There had to be some sort of justification to it. But yeah, so now I've certainly experienced the extremes of what our bodies can do to us.

Oh, I know, it's horrible, horrible stuff. But anyway, I noticed, I know that when we actually met face to face that you were talking about creating a community type platform to bring together people that were really interested in sensual massage. That's right. Project Intimacy, and you've now done that. And so tell me a little bit about what it is and, yeah, what, what it's all about.

Well, it's a, it's a project in motion because, uh, I'm a great believer in starting something, putting it up there and seeing how people respond to it and how they use it. So, uh, just after Christmas I actually opened it up and launched it, but kept it, uh, to contain it purely within a small client base of people who are already using Telegram and Telegram chat rooms that I created and basically said to them, look, there's this new platform coming up, it's going to be more extensive and it's designed to create a much larger community. Well, I think now we've got about 75 people have jumped in. It's going through its prototype stage of testing out and I'm still working with a company up in Scotland who are helping me sort of tweak and flick switches to make it work. And hopefully, probably within the next 2 or 3 weeks, I'm going to launch it to the mass database. But what seems to be developing quite nicely is the fact that people are responding to putting in, signing in, going in and building a small profile, and then basically just chatting. But the advantage of it with this one is that there will be in the region of around about 35 to 40 different chat rooms, which will divide into not only countries, but cities and regions, but also particular types. So for instance, there's a chat room for women who just want to engage with women, or men who want to engage with men. Or if you're living in Zurich, if you happen to be going on holiday and you want to meet other people. Now, the concept is basically to say this is an environment for people, a networking facility for people who like sensuality, who like intimacy, like sensual massage, and want to meet other people of that like. What I'm finding over generally in the past couple of years is that particularly in the age group of let's say 40 plus, there's a lot of men and women, but a lot of women particularly, who still have a desire for physical intimacy, for sexual encounters, but don't want to go on a one-night stand, are not really looking for a relationship, uh, and just doing it by themselves, although pleasant, doesn't actually tick all the boxes, and are still looking for that connection with other people, but not just anybody. People who understand that taking time, being a bit more creative with their engagements and touch, and also being able to just communicate and chat with like-minded people. So it's basically bringing the— for want of a better word— bringing a vanilla community together. Because, you know, you've got your BDSM community, you've got your tantra community, you've got your Shabari community, but nobody ever thinks of the greater majority, which is, to be honest, we all dip into lots of different things, but not everybody's, you know, people, you don't, you don't have to be part of community to be just heavy into it. So it's really designed for people who just are generally into sensual, intimate, vanilla-ish style intimacy and sex.

Oh, interesting. I mean, uh The other week I spoke to a woman who's doing what's called Conscious Dating Collective, Shakti, and she's just started going online dating and absolutely horrified by what she's finding there. Mainly having been away from anyone of an intimate nature for 3 years, she decided she missed the flirtation. She's a tantra person and What she's found is that there's a real lack of people 40, 50, 60 plus, you know, that there's plenty of people now using online sites that are in their 20s and 30s. But once you get to 50 and above, it starts to become a little bit of a wasteland. And I can tell you, being in Las Palmas where I currently am, there's absolutely no one, no one of my age at all. Anywhere, anywhere. I'm very much missing my situationship. But I think, you know, it's so— what I'm hearing and what I'm guessing is that the database that you've built up of clients, of people that have taken your workshops, of people that are interested in sensual massage, all of those people are going to be your early adopters, the people that you invite first. So that kind of already creates its own filter, if you like, because you've already got an extensive database of people who are very interested in this world. And the trolls can come much later then. Yeah.

And also, you know, it's obviously I have, I think my, my database is around about 15,000 at the moment. So it's a fair chunk to approach. But also on a daily basis, I get inquiries from people who may not have even started on that journey. So for instance, yesterday I had a male client who was initially going to be coming along with, with a female friend, but he then told his story about his relationship and his friend's relationship. And for various reasons, both of them were in quite sexually contained relationships. And he said, look, neither of us are looking to have affairs. Neither of us are looking to break up our relationships. But we do need that physical intimacy. But we want to be with people that understand our circumstances. And he said, you know, that's why we're looking at sensual massage, because as he said, he said, I'm not looking to have sex because that breaks the rules for me and my partner. My partner knows that we're in this situation and she's very happy for me to have this exploration. But I don't want to go off and have sex. And it's very difficult to go onto a dating site and say, yeah, I'll come and see you, but we're not having sex. So he said, I'm looking for people who enjoy the physical touch, the intimacy, the arousal. The playfulness of sensual massage so that I can have this environment that I can dip into every now and again. And I think there's a lot of people. So once they come and see me, they'll immediately be invited to say, well, you can extend this to meet other people. You don't necessarily have to come and see me. You can go and meet these other people and create your own community.

Yeah. And I'm guessing it's all happening on Telegram. Is that what you're— no, no, no, no, no, it's not. It's going to be its own site.

No, I came across a, um, Telegram. I came across a white label, um, networking platform. It's a company who developed a platform. The company is called Honeycomb, and they've basically created a template of like a sort of, um, more basic version of Facebook, right?

Right.

What you then do is you, you you in effect rent that template, you don't own that space, and then you can tailor it. So it's a bit like— I liken it a bit like to buying an empty house, or rather renting an empty house on leasehold, and they provide you with the house. You've then got to decorate it inside. So I've been going through the decoration at the moment, and metaphorically, I've now dumped 75 people in it and said, right, go and play in the house and see what happens. And then, we realize some rooms work, some rooms don't work, we need extra bits of this and what have you. So, it's building nicely and just coming on. And eventually, if it goes really well, then I might then create my own standalone platform.

Look, I mean, there's so many of these softwares. But so, are you— so, what's the pricing structure of this?

Well, at the moment, again, at the moment, obviously, just in the trial period, it's just £2 for a month.

Oh, okay.

So, you know, just literally say— but I think even, you know, I don't want to price it out. I'm looking at maybe— so basically I've tiered it in 4 different tariffs. So somebody can join on the social membership, which is basically free, and that means they get access to see what's in there, they get access to go into the social group, which is like a general group.

Yeah.

Then they're encouraged to go into the central membership, which then gives them access to the learning platform which provides them with various different videos, educational material, da da da da da, as well, but also then gives them more access to more chat rooms. So they'll go into specific chat rooms like the women who like men, men who like women, etc., etc. So they can be a bit more specific and also more regionally specific as well. So they'd be able to go into the London chat room or the Edinburgh chat room or the Las Palmas chat room, because I bet you bottom dollar there's a few people there, but they don't know that you're there, if you know what I mean.

Yeah, yeah. That's the thing about what I've seen certainly around people. There are definitely people in different communities that I've dipped into that advertise their services for sensual massage. Sometimes it's free. Because they just enjoy giving sensual massage with no expectation of sex, just because they just really, you know, they just really love it. Sometimes it's on sites like Adult Work, for instance, and places like that, of course. And then, you know, sometimes you just kind of randomly meet people who just say, oh, I just love giving massage. But it's very difficult to find a community of people who are all quite interested in that, whether it's giving it or receiving it. And, and, you know, I agree with you. I mean, I think one of the things that I said to you when we met was that for me, um, I think for lots of older women, becoming aroused isn't as predictable as it was when we were younger. And sometimes if you haven't had any physical touch for a while, just having a sensual massage can just kind of be a gateway back into your sensual, your sexual self. And so for a lot of people as well, it's a really lovely way without being, as you said, without saying, I want to have sex with you, of just saying, well, actually, why don't we swap massage skills? Or why don't we, you know, I just want to give you a massage. I'm not expecting anything beyond that. So, and as far as I know, there's nobody else really doing that, which is— which—

Yeah, and that's why I say I think it's the invisible majority. There's a lot of people out there in those situations. And if they don't find something, as you said, you know, it's not about the sex per se. And for various reasons, they may not be wanting to have penetration sex. Yeah, that's right. They may not even be aware there is an alternative. Yes, because they've associated sex with sex, but there's nothing in between. Whereas by approaching it with the, the, um, through the gateway of massage, you know, it allows that nice gentle platform. So I was only talking today with one of my students. I was doing a, a business, um, uh, uh, session today, explain. She's taken a training with me and wants to learn to give sensual massage professionally, initially to men. But she's now focusing actually as much on giving to women. We were talking about what would be the different tiers of, of motivation for a woman to want to go for another— to another woman for essential massage. And she herself has come to that world a little, a little only recently of actually having any intimacy with another woman. But it was something one of her practice sessions said the other day when We asked her and said, you know, what do you feel is the difference between having a sensual encounter with a male or a sensual encounter with another female? And this volunteer said, well, that's really interesting. I noticed today that when I was coming here to be your volunteer, I felt very different and less nervous and anxious knowing I was going to be massaged by a woman albeit intimately and erotically, than I was with them— would be with a man. And this was coming from a heterosexual woman. This was her first ever encounter to be touched intimately by another woman. And so I think, you know, for a lot of women, even if they didn't want to engage in a male-female situation, having a sensual massage from another woman is different than going off and having a lesbian encounter.

Absolutely.

And it could be anything from just a naturist massage given by a naked female, which doesn't necessarily have to be arousing or intimate, right the way through to mutual exploration, but built around the context of a massage bed, the time it takes, and, and a safe space just to feel that you're the one being focused on.

Yeah, and I think one of the things that struck me, and I'm sure that people are curious about, is when you start delving into a more erotic or more sensual massage, the acts, the element of consent, and about creating, you know, as you said, a safe space, making sure that the boundaries are really clear about what you can and can't do. And I remember when I came and saw you, the very extensive tick list that I had to sign off, which was like, I don't know how many pages it was, but it felt like a lot. I mean, it wasn't, it wasn't onerous, but it definitely covered lots of things that I suspect people might be worried about or concerned about. And, you know, how far they're willing to be touched or not touched and whether it's going to be sensuous or not so sensuous. And So I think that, that's another really nice aspect because if people are not used to feeling in control of their sexual selves, which often I think many women have come to relationships where they feel that having sex with a man is more of a responsibility than actually pleasurable, then when you're suddenly confronted with what do you want, what don't you want, what am I asked, you know, what, what are you happy for me to do? What are you not happy? And then we had quite a long conversation about that anyway. I think also that teaches people about what consent actually looks like, because a lot of people, they haven't got a clue, you know, and, and things kind of spill over and they think, oh, I didn't really want that to happen, but I always felt with your massage that I was really safe. And I think that's one of the really nice things about creating that environment with a bunch of people who have come through your school of massage and your workshops and being massaged by you and your other students is that people kind of know what to expect. They're not coming into like an adult, you know, environment where massage is code word for massage leading to sex, right? I mean, it really is like if you want massage, that's what you're going to get. If you have time, you can talk about that as well, but it's not a given.

I mean, there's no doubt about it. Those, what I call consent and authorization forms, are so valuable, not just obviously for informing the person, because just by filling the form, the way I suppose the— I liken it to, well, put it this way, I'll get people contact me, even women sometimes will say this and say, I want to come for a massage. What happens. And you think, how can I encapsulate what happens in a couple of sentences? And then you start getting into, will you do this? Can I have this? Can I have this? So by actually saying, well, tell you what, why don't I send you this form? You can read through it. And a bit like walking into a restaurant and having a look at the menu, you can decide what you want off that menu. But not only do you need to decide whether you want want it, yes or no, but how much you want of it, or how little you want of it. Or do you just want a taster, or do you want the full-blown dish? You know, are you somebody who would love to explore nipple, uh, stimulation, or anal touch, or is it something that's completely off the table? So I think that consent form actually gives people the opportunity to design their own experience. Yeah, because for some people It might be that they've been longing to explore. I mean, you know, there's been not on, not on just a few occasions, I've had quite a few women who've said that their male partners don't like oral sex and don't give it. And they've said that this is something I've hardly ever experienced. I'd really love to experience it, but in a safe place, in a safe way. So that can be included within the massage. And so it provides that flexibility. But also the other factor is that the number of people who've said to me, particularly the women have said, my God, it turned me on so much. I've been thinking about it for the last 3 weeks. And it acts as foreplay.

I was going to say that. I was going to say that.

It's mental foreplay. They go back and read it before they go to bed each night, anticipating.

I can totally believe that.

I'm sure sort of 20 minutes on the train before they've got here, they've been flicking through it. Oh, I think I'll just have a double check, make sure I've ticked all the right boxes. 'Oh yes, I did tick that one.' You know, you can hear it going on on the tube, you know.

So I know that you've said, you mentioned the fact that you've been, that one of the aspects of this platform is being able to watch some of your tutorials. I'm assuming these are your sort of mini movies. Yes.

Yeah, the mini movies, but also my other website, Intimate Tutorials. I've got a lot of material, educational material there. So I've exported some of that onto it as well. So that people can, um, use that as a guide and say, you know, I've just been watching Colin's male to female tutorial and I love the way he does this or that coming down, that's what I'd like, can you do that, etc. But also for people just to dip into it and say, actually, I'd like to have a go at this. Hopefully it'll also, uh, encourage other people to put material up because if they've got a profile page they can also post their own material.

Oh, interesting.

So they can put their own videos up there, they can— it'll all be monitored and checked before it goes up. But basically, it's a platform for people to be able to display what they do. So you might get Simon in Manchester say, I'm not a professional masseur, but I love giving massage. Here's a little short video of me giving my female friend a massage. Have a look at it and see whether you like it. And if you're in Manchester, I'd love to see you. And by that, the person viewing gets to see his location. You know, how he works, what he wears, what he doesn't wear, etc., etc. So, but having said that, I'm also going to have the next membership level is what I call the professional level, and that'll be for people who have done some form of formal training and are there on the platform to offer, uh, paid-for services. So, so for instance, you know, somebody I've trained who might be starting up might— will go on there and on their profile page say, you know, on a personal level, I'm happy to meet people, but I actually— I do give professional sensual massage. Here's my details, here's my website, go and have a look. And I trained with Colin, or I trained with this institute, I've done that. So again, for somebody coming into it, uh, who are exploring, they can look and go, well, if he's in this community, or if she's in this community, there must be some authorization and sort of acknowledgment of their expertise.

Yeah.

And look, they've also— so for instance, when I train somebody, I produce a small certificate that could go up. They could show that they've got insurance. They could show that they've got reviews on Google, things like that. Now, this is particularly relevant for women because for women looking for male masseurs, on the internet is really difficult because most of the, uh, search results will come up as women giving to men.

Yes.

And when you do get the odd one of males giving to females, I was looking at one today which was not a bad website, but nowhere was there a photograph of him and there was nowhere a description of him. Yeah, yeah, beautifully described and beautifully laid out But I felt that if I was a female booking this person, I would be concerned as to when I open the door to walk in, who is this person? Are they 25? Are they 75? Are they professional, etc.? So hopefully this will give confidence to women to say, well, actually, if I'm looking for a sensual massage, I'll go on to Sensual Connect, maybe ask a few people if they can recommend anybody. And oh, look, there's 20 men on there who are already advertising under the professional banner. And then the final banner, final tier will be corporate membership, which will be for companies that actually have products or supplies for this world. So it might be people selling massage beds or things like that. Yeah, that's really just an add-on at the end. So the main membership is the sensual membership. And then possibly the professional membership.

Yeah, yeah.

I'm excited to get it up and running. The irony was only yesterday, because this platform, Honeycomb, automatically uses Stripe as the processing thing. And I started getting messages from Stripe 2 days ago saying, could you please verify what your products and services are? So I'm writing back saying, It's a networking platform, da, da, da. And then yesterday I got an email from them saying, I'm very sorry, but we don't support dating websites. And I'm going, well, this isn't a dating website, but obviously they think— so I'm in the process of looking for a new platform to use as the payment system. But yeah, you get all these pitfalls. So if anybody knows of a good payment processing system that supports this world, then send them my way.

Yeah, I mean, I'm just trying to think about all of that because, well, you could look at, you could look at what was the one that I'm thinking about? GoCardless.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Look at, but it's interesting you should say that because back when I was getting involved in web development and stuff, I decided to go for a payment processor. This is nothing to do with sex advice, by the way. But I decided to go for a payment processor nobody had heard of because they gave me a good deal. And I really found it difficult to get money out of people when they didn't recognize who the processor was. So I always say to people, when you're starting these kind of sites, especially these membership sites, I know that Payhip, there's, there's Gumroad, there's, there's a few people now that are doing just purely kind of membership payments, um, just make sure you use somebody that people know. Yeah, because if they see— they press pay and they don't recognize the badge, they'll just think it's fraud. And, and unfortunately, you know, that is one of the aspects around working in an industry that involves eroticism or sensuality, is people just think, yeah, I'm being taken, right?

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, no, all those things. So that's why we're still going through the testing period Yeah, to iron out those bits and pieces.

So what do you— here's a little future question towards the end of our discussion. What trends do you foresee in the realm of intimacy and sensuality as we move into 2025, particularly for older people?

Uh, without a doubt, I think it's going to be older couples exploring. I would say that the average age of couples that I'm seeing here, either for just appointments or coming to some of the events, is 55 plus.

Wow.

Um, and in many cases those have been people who've been together 20, 25 years, but, or are couples that have recently got together because they've been widowed or divorced and then they've come together and they're having those mature conversations quite early on in their relationship and saying, look, let's not just sit back on our laurels, let's have some fun. And so I think there's going to be more and more of that. And I think that age range is going to extend. At the moment, it's, I would say, 50s and 60s. But as those 50s and 60s get to 70 and 80, they're not going to give up. So I can see this being something that becomes quite culturally acceptable.

Yeah.

And, you know, I long for the day when they're sitting around, you know, the family, the family fire, having their tea and cakes with their grandchildren, telling their grandchildren that they've just been to, you know, Las Palmas or Maspalomas for their sensual sexual holiday. Oh, Granny and Grandpa, you are naughty, but You know, it should be like that. You know, it'll keep us alive. You know, it'll keep us ticking over. And grandchildren love grandparents, so why not have the grandchildren supporting us?

Yeah.

I think also, I think we're going to see more and more— I think it's beginning to become recognized that this industry is legitimate and it's not sordid. And I think we're going to start beginning to see more of the sensible money men coming in, putting their money behind things like proper centers, retreats, things like that. I'm noticing that more and more people are open to allowing workshops, retreats in private houses, hotels, et cetera.

Oh, that's interesting.

So I think that's going to grow as well. But particularly for, I think particularly for the generations 55 plus, It's just a recognition that life's too short. Let's make sure that we enjoy ourselves and keep ourselves healthy. And maybe it would be good to start looking at some— trying to encourage, uh, some proper research into the health benefits of arousal for elderly people or older people, particularly around things like mental health. I mean, if you're being touched and stroked and tickled your brain's going to be responding. And if the brain's kept alive, you know, then there's less chance of any form of Alzheimer's coming through. So again, I think that we're going to see more of that and linking of that.

Yeah, yeah.

I'm looking forward to seeing the first over-60s Love Island.

Well, I don't think that's going to be too far off because I know that, you know, there's Later Daters and there's Golden Bachelor and there's all sorts program. So I think, I, I'm, I think an older Love Island is not, is not too far off. Did they not already do that last year? Did they not do it?

I don't know if they've done one. I'm not sure.

I think they might have done. I don't know. I don't watch Love Island. That's my, my kids sometimes watch Love Island. But anyway, Colin, it's been absolutely delightful to catch up with you, and Sensual Connect sounds really exciting. I really think it sounds like you're on to something.

I hope so. Yeah.

It for ages. What's— ever since we met, you said, you know, something that you've been thinking about and working on. So I really wish you luck with it, I think. And we will post a link and people can sign up, and hopefully you'll get more wonderful people that want to experience or want to give sensual massage.

So, and, you know, making it an international community, you know, all over the world, it's common to everybody. So let's, let's Let's flirt with China, let's flirt with Russia, let's flirt with the Americans, and maybe we'll actually work on global peace this way.

Oh God, well, we can live in hope, can't we? We can definitely live in hope.

Anyway, lovely to speak to you. Take care. Bye-bye.