Episode 147: Episode 147: Navigating Menopause: A Guide to Sexual Health

I'm very excited to welcome our new sponsor, Higher Nature, who have created Rekindle, which I'm currently trying out and is working a treat. A 100% natural libido-enhancing supplement for women which contains clinically backed ingredients to give your sex life a a boost. And who doesn't want that? This week's episode has been sponsored by Oh My Bod, shifting the evolution of pleasure. Hi, this is Suzanne Noble, and you're listening to Sex Advice for Seniors. And I am with somebody— God, I met— I'm trying to remember when we met, but it was a, it was a really, really long time ago. I mean, it It must be nearly 20 years now that we met, actually.

You, you reviewed one of our first, very first products. We sent one to you and you wrote a fabulous review about it. So we got to meet in person. Oh, I don't even know, 10 years ago? More than that.

Yeah, yeah.

At a dinner, wasn't it? And we suddenly realized who you were and you realized who we were. It was really funny and it was lovely.

Yeah, it was on my original blog that's now behind a page that— so you can't read it anymore— all my sexy stories. And then you guys came and sat in my hot tub. But anyway, I'm with Sam Evans, who is the co-founder of Joe Divine, which is an amazingly fabulous sex toy shop that only sells wonderful products. There's not a single item you're gonna find in that shop that's not safe to use. And she's also started, well, a little while ago, actually representing a brand, a lube brand that I've used that I've also highly recommended called Sutil, that's absolutely brilliant, and the Yes brand of lubes, which are also brilliant. But one of the things that I've noticed, Sam, since we've known each other, but more recently, is that you've become such a spokesperson now for, for menopausal women in, in how in just dealing with their menopause and their sexual health and all the things that nobody really wants to talk about.

No, very much so. I mean, we've been helping people for the last 18 years and obviously more menopausal people came to us, but then it was actually featuring on being on the Sex Myths and the Menopause program with Davina McCall, who was incredible. And she's been an incredible advocate for the community and she has helped so many people, as did the program, and as have we. And we haven't just had menopause conversations. We've had conversations about so much from, you know, all sorts of people. But yeah, it is very much this. No one's talking about it. Well, I've been talking about it for the last 18 years, but the problem is now is so many products are targeted at our menopausal vaginas and vulvas that are so poor and full of irritation ingredients which then exacerbate your genitourinary symptoms that you experience in menopause. And, you know, they actually can cause things like thrush. And then those products then put people off from finding products that are really good for you to help you enjoy good sexual health and pleasure. And, you know, and so my main focus is just helping people to continue to enjoy great sex, to discover great sex, you know, to actually enjoy better sex. You know, it is that they don't have to give up on their sex life if they don't want to. But unfortunately, their sex life comes to a grinding halt because of the genitourinary symptoms that they get because the estrogen's disappeared from their body. And we need estrogen to keep our whole genitourinary system happy and healthy.

Well, I'll tell you, if it wasn't for you, I would not know about vaginal estrogen. And had I not been told by you, what the hell, Suzanne, why are you not using vaginal estrogen? I wouldn't have had a clue because I was just using lube and going, it's good, but it's not good enough. And then went to the doctor who just, I think it was a phone conversation. They just went, yeah, all right then, wrote me out a prescription, off I went. You know, like a couple of weeks later, I was just like, wow, happy days. And that was just from a conversation with you. Of course, subsequent to that, I've told loads of other people in a very similar way who are going, what do I do? What do I do? And You know, you can have conversations with people like this all day long, all day long, every day, because no, they just don't seem to get any information. And so, you know, you become a sex toy expert and then you become an expert in this other thing. And as you say, one of the bigger problems, of course, is that some of the major high street pharmacies, chemists now, are selling stuff that's just crap.

Yeah, it really is. And the vaginal estrogen, I use it 4 times a week in addition to, you know, vagina moisturizers and the Yuzu Tea for sex play. I don't plan to stop. The idea is that you carry on using it long term. It's not to use to get rid of a problem and then stop because the issues will come back. The soreness, the dryness, the irritation, the infections like thrush, bacterial vaginosis, the fishy smelling discharge, your UTIs, your, your irritated urethra, your cystitis, because it helps both your the vagina, bladder, and urethra, the whole genitourinary system. The problem is a lot of people are told, oh, you can't have it, point blank. They— and actually, the vast majority of people can have it, even people who've gone through breast cancer treatment. But again, they get stuck between their oncologist and their GP. But we've got a lot more research now to say, actually, it doesn't trigger, you know, it doesn't cause breast cancer recurrence in these people. But that's about giving patients choice as well. And also, people are then taken off it when they've hit 60. This, and they do that with HRT and it's kind of like, why is there a reason to do that? And then people— I've had a lady, her— all her symptoms came back, you know, or they prescribed it incorrectly. And we have guidelines, we have very clear genitourinary symptom guidelines to actually prescribe it. So I had one lady and literally they must have had to open the box to just give her 20 pessaries. It was like, but the box has 28 pessaries in it. There's a reason for that.. And this doctor just didn't know, or let's just try it for a month. Well, actually you need to try it for at least 3 months. And also lots of different formulations. There's creams, there's pessaries, there's ring pessaries. There's so many different types you can use. So if one doesn't suit you, then you can ask your GP for something else, but also you can increase it. Some doctors said, no, you can only have it twice a week. I have it 4 times a week. Some people use it 5 times a week. Some, some use things. 7 times a week. Yeah, it's about what works for you. And this is the thing that not only transforms your genital urinary health but your sex life too. And also going, you know, going back to UTIs, they cost the NHS so much money. And, you know, we've got people being hospitalized with UTIs, certainly elderly women. They just have to be this way.

I used to get them all the time, all the time. And then, like you said, I I went on vaginal estrogen and I don't get them anymore, or certainly not as frequently.

I mean, I've just never had one.

Me too, but never, not nearly.

No, I used to have them all the time. You know, I think the last one I had was more than a year ago. And so this is really important. And also women get frightened because the information in the box, as you know, is related to HRT. It's not actually related to vaginal estrogen, which is only absorbed locally into the tissues of your womb, vagina, bladder, urethra. So, you know, it's actually, um, transforms your intimate health but your sexual pleasure, which means that you can enjoy pleasurable sex. You're not worrying about itching, stinging, or getting thrush or a UTI or cystitis after you've had sex. You know, it means that everything's happier and healthier, and it means, you know, and it means that sex is good for you, so it means everything is good.

So would you not think of, you know, I've seen, for instance, I'm sure you're familiar with the brand Hanks, right, who sell their condoms. They've recently done an integration with an online pharmacy where they, you know, where you fill in, you still have to go through the pharmacy portal essentially to get your, to get your, you can get like weight loss and all sorts of other things. But I've seen that you could integrate with somebody where you could— they could go through all of that so that they could get it online. Would you not consider doing that as part of your service?

No, because that's actually nothing to do with Jo Divine. It's a medical device. And also, why should people pay for it when they can have it on prescription? Yeah. Also, you can get all your HRT and your vaginal estrogen— it doesn't include testosterone— for £20 a year. You get the HRT Prepayment Certificate. Go onto the NHS website and this, you pay £20. I've just renewed mine actually for the year. I get it all. I get my vaginal estrogen, I get my, um, um, I have estrogen spray and I have progesterone tablets. But you know, people can get that for £20 a year. So you know, a month's supply of, um, vaginal pessaries over the counter in the chemist is £30. Yeah, it's a lot of money. There are other preparations out there. I looked at one the other day that can be prescribed over the counter by a pharmacist is, is £15. It's, it was £20 for 15 days. The other thing to say about pharmacists prescribing you these products is there are really strict criteria, stricter than if you went to see your GP. So you have to be over 50, you have to stop bleeding. Now, a lot of women will use vaginal estrogen when they're still menstruating because their periods go up the creek and, you know, they might have a period one month and then not another one for 6 months. And, you know, But, you know, and this is important, if you haven't had a period for a long time and you do have a period or you bleed, you go and see your GP. But there are really strict criteria. So a lot of women are being turned away from pharmacies because they don't fulfill the criteria of the pharmacy. So that's why go and see your GP, because the GP would be more likely to prescribe it for you. But we're not going to get involved. We're a sex toy company. I'm not going to get involved. And I don't— I'm confused as to why that brand are doing that, but they've obviously hopped on this.

Well, I just think the demand is there. And because, look, I mean, you know, I spent— I waited for an appointment with my GP for 6 months to get testosterone, right? And I could have— and when I finally went to see him and they did the blood test and they just sent, you know, again, it was like 2 minutes later he went, off you go, here you go. So yeah, if you can get an appointment with your GP great. And if you can— but you know what I'm hearing from a lot of people, of course, is that— and you've just acknowledged yourself— is that you've, you know, sometimes you go and the GP doesn't have a bloody clue and they say, well, give this a shot for two— I've had people tell me, oh, they told me to give it a shot for two weeks and then come off it. You know, I mean, I've been told all sorts of nonsense these people say.

So, and these are professionals. Some. But it goes— this is down to the lack of menopause education. Yes. The fact is it's not compulsory part of training. And this is what we're really pushing for. You know, the Royal College of Gynaecologists, we've discovered recently they have no guidance for anybody going through surgical menopause. So this is when your ovaries and your uterus and your fallopian tubes are completely removed, but there's no guidance afterwards to say, well, what do you do? And I obviously— they don't have any sexual health and pleasure advice for anything. And yet gynaecology treatments and surgical interventions really impact upon your sexual health and pleasure. So again, it's these areas where all this information is lacking. But what's happening now is there's quite a lot of menopause hubs and we've got practice nurses and there will be hopefully one GP at least in your practice. Actually, my new GP, she's really, really good. And we have got a menopause nurse in my practice and they actually have access to a menopause consultant, so they can call them for advice. So, you know, it depends on where you are, but this is slowly being rolled out there. But, you know, if you can afford to pay for it over the counter and you fulfill the criteria, that's fine. But keep pushing to get it on prescription from your GP because there's no reason why you can't have it.

Yeah. So in the world of sex toys, of which you have been for 18 years, what are you seeing as the, as the really exciting innovations coming through? What is, what is it that you are particularly thrilled about.

I love the snails.

Okay, I'm so curious about those, Sam, because I've seen these things and I'm like, what the—

they are brilliant. This is the Snail Vibe, and basically it's a unique take on a rabbit. That's all it is. So basically, you know, this goes inside you, and as it penetrates you, this slowly unfolds. So you can penetrate as deeply or as shallow as you want to, and then the the shell vibrates and that stays in contact with your clitoris, the whole vulva area. And it's just so good because I think it's a really good toy. I always think from a health point of view, if someone's got a shorter vagina, that happens when you go through hysterectomy or if you've had vaginal cancer treatment, often the surgery can leave your vagina shorter, but also if everything shrunk a little bit. But obviously if you like deep penetration, if you like those cervical orgasms right up by your cervix, you know, with near your A-spot, then this is really good. But also the snail bit, it stays in contact with your—

you know what, I'm so glad that you showed that because I've seen these things and I'm like, what the fuck?

Yeah, I don't— and then this is the Jizzy. This is the, the sort of baby version, but this stays in place. So the shape of it is really good for G-spot stimulation. It really fills up, you know, inside your vagina. And again, you pop it inside and you can push it in as high as you want to, and you can just lie back. Don't put too much lube on because the first time I used it, it slipped out, dropped out. But you know, this has got such deep vibrations, and just lie there hands-free, it's such a fun toy. And I didn't bring it down, but there's also a version for men as well, the Evo. So it's like a— oh, I didn't bring it. It's like a sleeve, but it's got, um, masturbation sleeve, but it's got this on the end of it. So as the person masturbates in the sleeve, they hit the snail, and then that will stimulate the head of the penis. So I think they're really good fun. They look so different, they're so innovative, they're really fun to play with, um, you know, and I just, I love them. And then on the simpler end are the Rose Buddies. I've only brought down 3 of them, we've got 6 of them, but there's 6 in the range. Um, this is called Bums and Roses. So this is for rimming, basically, which is a really good idea. Um, and it vibrates, but if you press that as well, which I think—

let's see, it goes— oh my God, because I've got a rose, you can't see it, and I just— it was just, you know, was given to me, and I honestly, I just didn't get on with it.

I was like, there are different types of roses, so whether or not these are by Skins, so they're all different. So this one mimics um, oral sex, um, and they're really, really popular. I'm saying that now it's flat.

It's because it's been overused, Sam.

Oh wow, it's a bit like the, um, Lele Aura. Yes, but it's, uh, you know, not as expensive as the Aura, but it's just a bit of fun. And then this one is a, a licky one, and it just mimics the tongue. I prefer this one. There is one with a bit more of a pointy tongue, but I like this tongue.

I got one the other day that was sent to me with this long pointy tongue. Oh, that's nice.

That's— actually, it is really nice, the shape of the tongue. The other one has got a bit more of a pointy tongue. That didn't really work for me. Um, but you know, they're just really fun and they're inexpensive, and I just think it's just a nice way to discover different sexual sensations. Obviously, if you don't have a partner, you haven't got anybody who can give you oral sex, you know, and if you want to actually explore anal play, then, you know, Buns and Roses is a really, really good fun one to use.

So, so who makes those little roses?

These are pins, and that's Creative Conceptions.

Oh, Creative Conceptions.

Yeah, there's 6 in the range, and they're really— I just think they're really, really sweet, and they're just so much fun, and they're very, very popular actually. Um, I— yeah, I saw you post about that product that you got, and I was like, oh, I don't think—

and also, I have to say The thing that I found kind of scary about that product was I haven't, you know, we're quite used to now decent silicone toys. Nearly all toys now are made of good quality, you know, good quality silicone. So I, but this tongue thing was made out of, it didn't feel like it was safe. It was a, it was a Chinese thing and it had this, it was kind of, I was like, I'm not sure about it. Do you know what I mean? It was— it, it felt like it could shred in. It was— and it was mad. I haven't tried it because I'm too scared. Honestly, I'm, I'm just— I just look at it and I think, no, no, that's scary. I mean, I do look at quite a lot of things and think they're scary, actually.

And I find that you often think as well sometimes, who on earth have they actually tried that? Has anybody with a vagina actually tried that toy? Because I often think, how on earth are you going to use it? And if it's too complicated, you know, I don't want lots and lots of buttons and remote controls. I just want the thing to work and I want to be able to turn it on, turn up the speeds and the pulsation patterns and, and turn it off when I need to. That's so important.

I had a very embarrassing moment the other day where my usual little bullet, which is just like a cheap little bullet that I like, but it's rechargeable, it died. In, in a crucial moment. So I was like, okay, I'm gonna grab— I had a Tango, you know.

Oh no, I love Tango. Yeah, yeah.

See, the vibrations don't work for me at all. They're too deep and I don't— it doesn't work for me. Well, I couldn't— I don't like the— I don't like that plastic, the hard plastic.

Yeah, I mean, we haven't sold that for a very, very long time, but when we—

it's—

it is one that I've still got in my— yeah.

Anyway, I couldn't get the fucking thing on. Couldn't get it on. I literally You know when you're sort of, you're trying to be intimate with somebody, it's all, it's all kind of thing, and I'm literally trying to discreetly with my finger press all these. Nothing was working, nothing. It was just eventually I handed it to him and he just, and he just did something and got it on and handed it. But there's nothing worse when you've got too many buttons.

Yeah.

And So many of them have got so many buttons now.

Exactly. And also, you know, we've toys where you can't actually unlock them. We had that the other day with something, and it was like, you know, Paul was going, well, I've been pressing it. I said, I can't— and we were just the two of us. It was like, where are the instructions? It's like, you know, and then it didn't really explain it on the instructions too. So, you know, it— there are so many different toys out there, but like you said, you've got to be really careful what you're buying, where you're you're buying them from, because a lot of these products, you know, we only buy from reputable manufacturers. These are high-quality products, they are the genuine product. And there is a real issue with fake products out there, you know. That's why you need to go to reputable retailers who actually can give you advice. I think if you see stuff online and you can't call them, email them, or DM them, that's a red flag. And I had somebody today was telling me about some Vulval oils, they're a new thing, but I couldn't find any ingredients on this website. And that's another website red flag for me too. We've got all the ingredients on our website. So, you know, in both oils, can we quickly talk about those? Because I feel this is really important. There's a lot of people—

oils, because I've been seeing a lot of them.

And actually, all I can say is, you know, if you're in a relationship, new relationship, you should be using condoms. And oils, anything oil-based will destroy latex oils, latex condoms. And the problem is we have vaginal moisturizers, some on prescription, that contain mineral oil and palm oil. They hang around inside the vagina for up to 24 hours. They will destroy those latex condoms. But these vulval oils designed just to go on your vulva, they're still going to hang around. Some of the brands try and say, well, the, the oil dries. I would be very wary about that, actually, because, you know, we have the Yes! oil-based lubricant. I would No, you can't use that with latex condoms. No, there's so many of these products out there and they're really expensive too, a lot of them. Yeah, people swear by them. That's fine if it works for you. That's great. It's about finding what works for you. But if you're using latex condoms and please do, if you're in a new relationship or you're enjoying, you know, sort of casual sex, then be aware of these products out there. Problem is, if you've been prescribed these vagina moisturizers by your GP, you're going to assume, oh, it's fine. You're not even going to look at the ingredients. And there's some products on prescription that really, you know, they're not fit for purpose. I wouldn't have them in my house, let alone inside my vagina, you know. So that— I want to say that because I've noticed this more and more with these vulval oils, um, that please proceed with caution if you're using latex condoms because there is a risk that that condom can be damaged and then obviously you could be exposed to an STI or something.

So yeah, and I think also alongside the oils is I'm seeing a lot more like, um, clitoral stimulation gels. Oh yeah, yeah, a lot more of those. And I've noticed, and I've, and I've been given some to try, that, um, I just felt like, nah, I'm not, you know, I, I didn't feel that they were contributing to my sexual health, let's put it that way.

And I think because they have— I tried one a while ago tiny amount I put on my clitoris and it was peppermint and it just stung. And a lot of them have peppermint in them and a lot of them will have what you find in— is it capsicum? I can never pronounce it— what you find in chilies to warm you up. Yeah, but you know, it is a matter of finding what works for you. But actually, if you're going through the menopause or postmenopause, those tissues are often drier, they're sore, they're thinner. So actually you're going to absorb whatever you're putting on there, and that's why you need to be really cautious about what you're using. I think that's really, really important. I've also seen a lot of American doctors actually advising people to use silicone lubes. Now silicone lubes are great, they're very, very slippery, but they're not things that I recommend in menopause. You need something that's going to nourish and hydrate those tissues. Silicone just sits on the top of the tissues, it doesn't get absorbed. And also silicone really isn't advisable with silicone toys. So I've seen these doctors going, oh, it's fine. And I'm thinking, well, you're not a sex toy retailer. It damages the silicone of the toy, and that causes abrasion because it's silicone on silicone, and that makes it porous, so you can't clean it properly, so it's not hygienic. So again, it is about finding what works for you. But yeah, I've noticed the clitoral stimulating gels and the vulval oils very much so, and I do think for people, just be very cautious about using these products and always do a skin test on your labia before you actually slap it on.

Yeah, and I think, you know, we hear a lot about, um, well, we can, we can use household products like, for instance, almond oil or coconut oil. And that's another thing, it's like, yeah, okay, you probably could, maybe, But on the flip side of that, a lot of these are not pure ingredients.

No, no.

You know, like household oils aren't necessarily the purest ingredients that you're going to find.

Not at all. I mean, the Yes Coco Plant Oil Lubricant, and they've added it to their applicators as a little bit of medical grade coconut oil. Hence I said medical grade because it's hard to get it out of the applicators. I'm not sure they're going to bring it out in a tube. But that is the only coconut oil I would recommend. And don't just go and buy a pot off the shelf in the supermarket. It needs to be 100% pure, organic. It needs to be in a tube, not a pot, so you're not double dipping and causing cross-contamination. And make sure that it's been ethically farmed, but not by monkeys on chains. But you're right, these— and also, you know, there's also plant oils as well. So some, some of the nut oils, people might be allergic to nuts and they might not actually realize they have another allergy, you know, they've never had a problem before, but you can— suddenly in menopause we end up becoming allergic to so many different things, and you can suddenly have an allergy. And you know, aloe is in the Yes Vaginal Moisturizer, and a lot of people have an allergy to aloe vera, you know. So we always suggest the, the Sutil to them because it doesn't have aloe in it. But again, it's proceeding with caution, and just because it's slippery doesn't mean to say that it's good for your intimate health sexual pleasure. I'm always amazed what people put on their vulvas and vaginas. And I came across an NHS website the other day that I had been signposted to, and a nurse had written an article and suggested Bio-Oil that you use for stretch marks for perineal massage. Um, I did highlight it to the doctor who'd signposted me, and she went, oh gosh. And I was going, yes, before you actually, um, link to these websites, check what's actually on them. But Yeah, I use bio oil when I was pregnant with my stretch marks on my boobs, and it worked really well, but I would not put it inside me.

And I think, you know, I think I was talking to somebody earlier, a journalist actually, and saying, you know, one of the things that I find just in terms of people's understanding, not just of their own sexual health but sexual desire, is there's there's this feeling of, well, I'm just going to use what I used in my 20s, you know, or that worked for me back then, or that's the way I used to be back then, I'm just going to go back to that, and not recognizing their body has changed, the tissues are thinner, there's more risk of infection. Like, you're not the same woman that you were in your 20s, and you're— the way you treat your body especially your intimate areas, needs to be different. And I think there is, you know, because there is no education around this, people just, they go back to familiarity, which is, you know, that's, well, that worked for me back then, so I'm just gonna—

well, well-known brands. But I always say to people, you know, be an ingredients detective like you are with your skincare and your hair care. And, you know, if you care about what you eat, think about what you're using intimately as well, you know, and check for those red flag ingredients— glycerin, glycols, parabens, dyes, perfume, alcohol, glitter, you know. And also we've got CBD leaves now. We've talked about this before, you know, we don't know what CBD does to the microbiome of your vagina. That's your friendly bacteria that protects everything, keeps everything happy and healthy. And often those CBD leaves, the base carrier leaf contains those irritating ingredients that I've talked about. So, you know, and I've had people going, oh, glycerin's fine, you know, and I've seen people promoting products, but actually I've told you that glycerin isn't good for you and there you are promoting this brand that contains glycerin. But the brands will say, oh, but the glycerin in our product is fine. Well, it's not. I know that. I learned that after 20 years of experiencing thrush and UTIs using, you know, well-known sexual lubricants that contain glycerin. And, you know, when we set up Jo Divine, we discovered it was those ingredients that caused all my sexual health issues for so many years. So, you know, there will be people out there— I had a lady today said she was happy using KY. She'd used it years ago. It was like, okay, well, that's fine. But actually, lubes have moved on a bit since then, and there are much better products.

You know what? I don't know if you— you've probably seen the app called Yuka. That's— oh yeah, you can check the ingredients, right? And it's supposed to tell you whether there's carcinogens or any additives or things that, you know, are, are just ingredients that could lead to more serious and potentially life-threatening conditions, right? So I picked up two Durex lubes when I was in Boots because I was curious. I could see the ingredients were not great, and there was glycerin and there was all sorts of stuff in those lubes. And one of them might have been a flavored one. I mean, it was you know, really bad. And Yuka gave it the thumbs up. So then I wrote to them and said, this is not a thumbs up product. So honestly, you, you know, you think to yourself, well, I'm going to use something that's going to give me some indication of whether or not this is good without me having to go and do a deep dive into the research around all of this stuff. But it— but you do have to actually really know your shit when it comes to what you're putting inside yourself. Because I hate to say it, but I'm sure that some of the bigger brands are probably paying to be on platforms like that where they can, you know, they can say, well, we're okay, right?

It's really— it is really, really difficult. And actually, it's often people don't worry about it until they have a problem. So like, you know, you hit perimenopause and then you start getting the UTIs and the thrush. You've never had thrush before. You know, you're thinking, why? Oh, I'll go and buy that lube off the shelf or go and buy that own branded product there in that well-known pharmacy, having no idea. You assume that these products stay safe. And also a lot of these products now have 'meno-friendly' on them. They tick.

Yeah.

And I always say gynecologist, doctor recommended. I always say to people, ignore that. Turn it over, look at the ingredients on the back. And, you know, because it means nothing. When it first came out, I think the menopausal friendly sort of label, there were a lot of— there were brands like Yes was on there and it is, it's totally menopause friendly, but it's great for everybody, whatever your age and whatever your gender and sexual orientation. But, you know, there are now products on there. You go on it, why is that product got an M tick? It contains terrible ingredients. Because the brand has paid for it. So it is, it is meaningless. But unfortunately, people will see menopause on the label like so many things as well. You know, menopause chocolate always gets me. But, you know, this is why it's really important to do your research and actually, you know, be careful when you are buying these products and when you are using them as well, because they could potentially cause irritation or they could exacerbate exacerbate those problems that you were originally buying them for. So, yeah, absolutely. And this is not just, you know, people with a vulva and vagina, you know, people with a penis, um, you know, experience irritation. Obviously people get anal irritation. That's why the Rich is really good, because it's water-based and it's thicker as well. It's really, really good for anal play. It's good for vaginal play. But, you know, so it's really important that you think about what you're going to be using intimately, because those tissues are really delicate. Thinner in menopause, therefore, you know, whatever goes through them is going to be absorbed more quickly. Um, same goes for STIs too, so you've got an increased risk of transmission of getting an STI, you know, if your condom gets damaged because you've been using a vulval oil, um, or you're not using the condom. So, you know, it's really, really important that you do think carefully about what you're using. And when you find a really good lube, it makes your sex so much better.

Oh my God, it is transformative. I mean, like I said before, before, I tried all different things and I was getting just burning sensations and it was just terrible. So yeah, I'm a complete convert to both Satiel and Yes Lube because they're fantastic. So I just keep thinking to myself as I'm listening to you, I just keep thinking, when are we going to see Sam's Play events where you're going to bring out all your toys and women are going to be able to have their like hen party kind of like, you know, Back in the days that Ann Summers used to do those sorts of things, I don't think, know if they do anymore, but I met someone, I spoke to somebody recently who started doing them in the States and she's getting a lot of enthusiasm now from women who just get together with their mates and she comes over with a box full of toys and just talks people through this stuff. I think you're cut out for that, Sam.

I know, but you're limited in who you can actually do that with. And I have done that. I've done that with friends. And they've been really, really good fun. But I do loads of these talks and I show things to people, and I will go along to events and show things as well. And it's, um, you know, there's just me, though. It's kind of like, you know, and I'm looking forward to retiring, you know, and lying on the beach. So, you know, it's, um, but, you know, yeah, I mean, I, I see that. Um, but, you know, I did my first women's health event here actually with a practice nurse called Sam too, and it was so good. There were 30 women in the room and they were just amazing. It was a local cafe and, um, they were so, you know, interactive and asking brilliant questions. But I stood there listening to their— what their struggles and thinking, I live in a menopause bubble because there's so many people out there still struggling and they don't know about Jodi Vine, they don't know about Good Lubes, they don't know about vaginal estrogen. They've been told they can't have it. Was a breast cancer. She had breast cancer, stuck between her GP who said no and her oncologist and gynecologist who said yes. So it was kind of like, so I signposted her in the direction of, you know, somebody who could actually help her. Um, people, women after hysterectomy not being given any— that's my biggest bugbear— after hysterectomy, women are just not being given any sexual health and pleasure advice whatsoever. Um, you know, so it was good to help them. Um, and And it was just really nice. It was really well, um, attended, and it was well received. So hopefully I might be able to do a few more here because I struggled in Tunbridge Wells. I don't quite know why. Maybe it was just the demographic or something. But, um, yes, they might be more open-minded.

Look, you look very happy in Margate. You look very happy in Margate. And I was going to end by saying, am I seeing you at the Sexual Freedom Awards Or not?

No, I don't. When are they? I can't remember when they are.

They're on the— they're like Saturday or something. They're on the 11th.

Oh no, I won't be going to that. We don't get invited to them, so—

well, you have to book a ticket.

Okay, I haven't done that, so, um, no, we won't be going there. So anyway, I hope you have fun. I will.

I hope I will be able to catch up with you when I visit Margate, because I'm definitely gonna visit.

Yeah, no, come down and see us. Yes, definitely. I would love that. You're welcome to stay once we've sorted out the decorating.

Oh, I would just love that. That'd be so awesome. And it's been so nice to catch up with you and to see the snail and to understand what that's all— you've enlightened me there and now I'm very curious to try that. So yeah, you must try it. It's a really good thing. I'm going to give that a shot. Anyway, lovely to see you.

Love to see you. Take care now. Bye!