Episode 148: Revolutionising Men's Health: The Phoenix Device

Suzanne Noble: I'm very excited to welcome our new sponsor, Higher Nature, who have created Rekindle, which I'm currently trying out and is working a treat. A 100% natural libido-enhancing supplement for women, which contains clinically backed ingredients to give your sex life a boost, and who doesn't want that? This week's episode has been sponsored by Oh My Bod, shifting the evolution of pleasure. Hi, this is Suzanne Noble, and you are listening to Sex Advice for Seniors. You know, I'm always interested when I hear about new technology especially when it's around improving sexual health. I'm— there's, there's not that much stuff out there actually when it comes to improving sexual health. So I was really excited when I was contacted by a team at Launch Medical to talk about a new, relatively new device called the Phoenix. And I'm with the co-founder of Launch Medical now, who's Dustin Wolfe. So welcome to Sex Advice for Seniors.

Hi, thank you so much for having me on. I really, really appreciate it. I'm so excited to talk about this stuff. So I've done so many of these, but every single time feels like the first time. So yeah, my name is Dustin Wolfe, CEO of Launch Medical, co-founder, co-inventor of a product called the Phoenix, which actually came into— popped into my head as a concept. Gosh, it's probably 7 years ago now.

Wow.

And, and I had started a wellness clinic in Los Angeles, California, where we were doing hormones, You know, and we quickly found out that a lot of guys, a lot of guys that were coming in were having, you know, performance issues in the bedroom. So, you know, we started doing what's called, you know, it's, it's a fancy term. It's LiSWT, but it's a fancy term for, for, for a sound wave, right? They call it a shockwave, but it's really a sound wave. And what it does is it gets to the root problem, you know, of what most guys experience when they start seeing decline in the bedroom. Is plaque buildup, right, in, in the blood vessels, right? The blood flow— start having blood flow issues. Anyway, so the challenge with doing it in a clinic— and there's clinics around the US and there's a lot around the world— the challenges we identified really fast are there are 3 challenges. It's very expensive, okay? Um, it's embarrassing to walk into, you know, a stranger's office and, you know, have to get undressed and have them handle your, your private parts, you know? And it's very— and it's geographically prohibitive. Because there's not a clinic on every corner like a gas station, right?

Sure.

So the expense part, I found out, was that was a huge one. So I started developing this concept in my head, and like, and it's very simple. It's a topical type of treatment. There's no down— you know, there's no downside to it. There's no side effects, and it gets to the root cause of the issue. So I started coming up with this concept, and I met, you know, our co-founder, and together we developed the first prototype of the Phoenix. You know, this was years ago. And we started doing some testing in the clinic on the guys that couldn't afford the in-clinic treatment. And we were getting amazing results. It took us about a year and a half to really fine-tune it. And then when we went to market, it just, it just took off because we had solved all three of those problems. The cost, you know, the shame and embarrassment factor of having to go to a clinic. And, you know, the geographic, you know, guys could do in the privacy of their own home. So that's, you know, that's, you know, that's how the concept in the Phoenix was born. But the technology is, the technology has been around for a long, long, long, long, long, long time. We're talking, you know, over 40 years. And, oh, you know, over in Europe, this kind of stuff started. And it was really interesting. It was originally used for soft tissue repair. Because what it does is—

I was going to ask, like, where, what other applications does it have?

Oh, yeah. Plantar, anywhere on the body that has soft tissue. So not like on your kneecap, but you know, your calf, your hip, plantar fasciitis, your feet, your hands, your arms, your shoulders. We get guys that use the Phoenix all over, you know, all over their body.

Oh, amazing.

Yeah, because it causes, it actually causes, you know, microtrauma like you're going to the gym, you know, in a good way. So your body, your mind sends blood flow to that, to that, you know, that direct area. To help repair, right? Along with that blood flow, you get, you know, your, your stem cells are in there, it creates nitric oxide. So all these amazing benefits, right? And there's no downtime and there's no side effects to it. But we quickly, you know, started seeing amazing results, you know, from, you know, from the product and the feedback we were getting. And, you know, I should just— I just throw this out there as a disclaimer. Nothing is, is, is, is ever foolproof, right? And, you know, so, so there are some men that are not good candidates, you know, which I'll talk about in a minute for the Phoenix. Yeah, but the ultimate part is this really gets to the root cause of the issue. And a lot of the guys that buy, that buy the Phoenix, over time they'll stop using their Viagras, their vasodilators, or Cialis, or they'll use a really lower dose, right?

Right.

So we see that all the time. We have guys write in all the time, and I mean, you can go see all the testimonials on our website, but The feedback that we get is amazing. Now, we do, we do ask our, ask our customers to take a quiz to see, you know, if they're a good candidate for the, for the Phoenix or not. And it was designed by urologists and our, you know, our internal, our internal medical folks. But it just asks a series of personal questions. If you're honest and you plug in, you know, the, the information that is specific to you, It'll give you a report and that report will tell you, you know, on a scale of 1 to 10, right, if you're a good candidate or not and why, you know, why you are or why you're not. So, you know, there are some other health factors that, you know, that as you know, you know, that lead, you know, to guys having, you know, performance issues in the bedroom. You know, there could be, you know, diabetes, you know, sedentary lifestyle. You know, just, just all, you know, all those things that happen to us as we age. What this does, you know, what this technology does is it helps slow down, and in some cases even reverse the process of, we'll call it sexual decline or erectile dysfunction.

And do you get most of your customers referred to you by urologists for men who, for instance, have had prostate surgery? Is that sort of one of the most common use cases?

Um, we have, we, um, we do have, uh, some doctors, you know, recommend the Phoenix to, uh, to their patients. But I think a majority, what we find that the data shows us, the majority of our customers find us on the internet first, and then they'll do their research, right? And we'll send them educational information, right? Studies that have been done by big urology groups over the last 30 years on this type of technology. And then they'll go do the research, and a lot of guys will go ask their doctors. You know, and then, and then they'll kind of go from there. Sometimes they'll call in if they have specific questions because the protocol, you know, we designed the protocol to be, I mean, safe, first of all, right? And, and, and, and effective. So I'll talk about that for a quick second. So it's not just one treatment and you're done, right? There's no such thing as a silver bullet. And I couldn't sit here and honestly tell you, you know, that there is. So it's a series of treatments and what that looks like, these are self-administered treatments. They take about 15 to 20 minutes. And it's 2 to 3 times a week, right? For, for let's say 3 to 4 weeks. And then you take a break, right? Because you let the body repair and heal itself. And then you do that cycle again. Right. So it's anywhere from 6 to 12 treatments, 15 treatments. And a lot of guys, they'll start noticing a difference within just a few days or a couple of weeks. Yeah. But some guys it takes longer. You know, it just kind of depends on their condition. Sometimes, you know, we've had guys go through a full month of treatments and then take a month off and they're like, I don't really notice much. And then on the second round of the protocol, they're like, holy cow, you know, they're writing in going, this thing is incredible. It's a miracle. So, you know, the protocol really, it comes down to like anything else. It's like exercise, right?

Yeah.

You know, you got to get daily exercise and that's this. That's what this is. And it's, it's, it's one of those things that Doesn't happen overnight. No, nobody walks into a gym and walks out looking like a fitness model the next day. You know, this is a process. So it's really, you know, all about compliance.

And I assume, look, as we spoke when we were having just an introductory call about the importance of just overall health, right? I mean, combined with a healthy lifestyle. So how much do you get involved as well with trying to get your customers to think about their overall physical health as well as just what's going on downstairs?

Yeah. So, so we do touch on that in some of our communication, the emails and, and even over chat or phone call. I mean, we're not, you know, look, we're not dietitians. We're not, you know, we're definitely not diagnosing anybody's other conditions. Right. So what we, what we try to, you know, and you'd be surprised at the amount of people that I You know, I've been in, I've been in, you know, fitness for 30 years, right? So I live and breathe this. You'd be surprised, and you probably already know, you know, that the amount of men out there, you know, you know, either haven't been told or really don't understand how important it is, right, to take care of yourself and to eat healthy. And I'll sit here and tell you, I'm not, I'm no saint. I live by the 80/20 rule. Right? I'm good 80% of the time. I eat clean, you know, healthy like that. But shoot, I'll have pizza and ice cream on a Sunday. Why not?

Right? Yeah, yeah.

But I worked for that. So we don't get too much into, you know, trying to diagnose and, okay, well, what exactly are you eating? And, you know, we kind of leave that up to them, but they, we definitely, we definitely put emphasis on diet and exercise because our, our customers will get better results.

Yeah, yeah, of course. It's, it's obvious. And I mean, I think one of the things that I was fascinated by is, look, it's as you said before, it's not an expensive device. It's not a super inexpensive device, but compared to what it costs to go into these clinics, it's actually incredibly economical.

Oh, when you break it down.

When I started looking into, I mean, shockwave treatment is, you know, it's or, or this, this kind of treatment. It's relatively new, I would say, in terms of how it's being applied to erectile dysfunction, right? But, but the cost of these clinics that I'm seeing are literally thousands of pounds to go in. And so if somebody wants to do this, you, you know, it's not cheap. And oh, You know, we've got, um, we can get PD-5 medications in the UK over the counter. They're still relatively low cost compared to everything. But I mean, just to give people an idea of what we're talking about here, I don't know what it is in the States, and you can tell me, compared to what it costs for one of these, for the Phoenix.

Yeah. Yeah. So let's talk about that. Obviously, cost is, you know, is the biggest factor here. So the clinics in the US, from what I, from what I, from what I know, I sold my, I sold my clinic to my ex-partner a while back, but I still know this. One protocol, so basically anywhere from 6 to 12 treatments was $3,000 to $6,000 US dollars, right? And we're talking, you might need, you know, a couple protocols a year at least, right? So you're talking anywhere from $10,000, $15,000, $20,000, you know, easily.

That's crazy.

Right? And that's just for a handful of treatments. So The Phoenix, you know, you gotta, you gotta remember this device, these devices, even the in-clinic devices, you know, they're creating a very powerful sound wave, right? So what's happening in these machines is internally destructive, if you can imagine, right?

Yeah, yeah.

It's creating, it's creating a powerful sound wave, healing sound wave. So they do wear out over time. So what we found after doing all the testing on the Phoenix, and this is going to quantify kind of the dollars here we're talking, right?

Yeah.

That we guarantee our device, the efficacy of it for at least 77 treatments or more. In fact, you know, when we first came out 5 years ago, you know, the product was new and we had some issues. And because we're, you know, we're, you know, we're growing and with this, something would break and okay, we'd fix that. They don't even break anymore. I mean, they're just, they don't, they just don't, we don't, we rarely get a broken one back. I mean, we're talking maybe once every couple of months. So, you know, when you quantify, break down that treatment, it's $500 a treatment in a clinic, $500 per treatment. Right. So you're looking at thousands of dollars for one protocol versus call it $800, you know, for, for, for a Phoenix that's going to last for years and years and years and years.

Yeah.

I mean, you can do the math on that. And that's, you know, that's why The product has been wildly successful because, you know, just economically. And it's like I said, it gets to the root of the issue. It's the, you know, look, the vasodilators, we all know those are just Band-Aids. They're just Band-Aids. They don't fix anything. You know, it's a short-term, cheap option. But, you know, eventually, you know this, they stop working, right? And there's side effects.

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, is it suitable for men of all ages?

Oh, we have guys— I'm actually glad you asked that question. So this, the Phoenix isn't just for guys that have erectile dysfunction issues. We have guys in their 20s and 30s who are just want to stay on top of their, you know, bedroom performance game, if you will, right? You know, these guys, I mean, I would say more under their 30s. Some guys are like bodybuilders and stuff in their 20s that are just curious. But as these guys get into their 30s, you know, their mid-30s, they're noticing, you know, change is happening. They're going, oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Because we all know, and people that see this, that when a guy can't perform in the bedroom, it's devastating, you know, to him and his partner, you know, psychologically and emotionally. So these guys, you know, we get guys 30s, 40s, 50s, some guys even in their 80s that have success with the Phoenix. I'm glad you asked that question.

That's amazing.

You know, I would say Guys that are really starting to have performance, you know, issues in the bedroom, or, you know, and they're— and they get in their 40s and in their 50s, it really starts happening. But, you know, we get guys in their, in their 30s and up, you know. So we're pretty proud.

And I'm curious to know, because it's so difficult to market these sorts of products on the internet.

That is our biggest challenge.

So I was going to say, like, where do you do this? Because it's so difficult. Even, I mean, men's sexual health is slightly better, I think, than women's, which is a total disaster. But yeah, it's re— you know, marketing this is such a challenge.

It is very, it is very difficult. And in fact, from a business standpoint, it is our, it is our biggest challenge, right? The big, the big platforms, you know, you know which ones I'm talking about. Yeah, they are very, very, very strict on, you know, on, on, on what you can and can't say. And look, you know, we don't we don't, we don't tout this as a, you know, as a, you know, as a toy or something you would find in a novelty store, like a vibrator or something like that. This is a legit medical device, right? And if you go, when you go to our website and you see, you know, exactly how we explain how it works and how we position the device, it is, you know, that's why we've been able to, you know, to, to, you know, really scale on these, on these big platforms. But, you know, it is still difficult. There's a lot of things you can't say. No, I know you have to almost insinuate and leave it up to the viewer's imagination. You know what I'm talking about?

Yeah, it's really— it's— look, it's— I just think that this whole area of both men and women's sexual health, especially when you're dealing with older people, it's just— it's just so taboo for people to talk about it, let you advertise it. It's just the whole thing is just such a— it's, it's the biggest nightmare. And I don't think any brand has solved it yet. I mean, no, no, nobody has solved it because it's just—

solved it. It's just that it's still taboo even in these days. It's, it's interesting. What, what, what is fascinating to me is that obviously this is a— it's a huge industry, right?

Yeah.

You know, humans will always want to have intercourse, right? So that'll never ever go away no matter what happens with the market. And you know, that'll never go away. But along with the size of the industry, you know, you have, you have massive challenges, right? Like you said, you know, it's taboo. You have government, right? Heavy government regulation.

Yeah.

Right. So that people don't get scammed. And it's a very scammy industry, as you know.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Right.

These gas station pills, try this new gadget, this thing, the other thing. And, you know, that's what's, you know, amazing about the Phoenix is backed by science. You know, we have tons of studies, links to big urology group studies on our website that people can go see for themselves. You know, if you don't believe us, you know, see what all these doctors are saying about the technology.

Yeah.

So that's why it's so hard to advertise is because it, you know, because it is a very scammy industry.

So, so sort of riffing off that a little bit, I know that I've spoken to, you know, a few people that have got tech sexual health businesses in the States, and the holy grail for them is getting in the insurance business, getting into the— so that you get 100% coverage covered with your insurance. Is there any attempt to do that? Is there any—

there is. And, you know, just to bounce off of what you just said, yes, the holy grail is, you know, if you can, if you can get insurance companies to approve it and to pay for it, it changes. Because look, you know, even our device— and we have financing for our device, by the way, it. It's $800. We work with a company called Affirm, and they'll— you can break up the payments. And a lot of guys, you know, they'll, they'll take advantage of that, you know, because it's still $800.

Yeah.

But like, like you just said, you know, having and getting insurance to cover it is game-changing. And the answer is yes. And we've been working on— there's a whole process, which, you know—

oh yeah, I know. It's like, it's really a whole—

we have stacks of papers and stuff. You have no idea. Anyway, we are, we are in the process of, of, you know, of, of of working through US regulatory agencies to then be able to get approval to then, or get cleared to then go to insurance companies and say, you know, will you approve this? You know, based on what the government says. So yeah, we're working on it. You know, it could be a while though. We've been working on it for a couple years.

Oh no, I know this is a very long game, all of this. I mean, it is. It's a very long game that you're in with this one because it is, it is.

It's very, especially when we're, We're the only product like it in the entire world.

Yeah.

There's no way. And we own all the patents all around the world on our device and our technology and how it's made. And since we're the first ones, you know, the regulatory agencies are looking at us going, what is this? You know, they know what other things are, pills and all that stuff, but they're like, what? They don't know. They're having a hard time even trying to classify it because it is, like you said, it's, you know, relatively new.

Yeah, yeah. And I guess the thing is, it's not a diagnostic device, and it's not a sex toy. And it's not, you know, it's sort of, it sits in that kind of funny space of enhancing your health and preventative medicine, which is a big buzzword these days. But that every time I speak to doctors, at least in this country, about preventative medicine, they kind of look at me and they laugh because they say, you know, we haven't got to the preventative part yet. We're still, we're still just dealing with the people that are coming in with problems that we need to solve. Like, we haven't worked on the people that haven't got problems yet. That's a, that's a whole nother group of people, right?

So it is, it is. But, you know, it's like, like I was explaining a few minutes ago, it's, it'll, it'll— hopefully the preventative part, you know, starts to really catch on and, you know, and people get it. But there's, you know, every day guys are getting older, every single day. And women too, you know, we're, we're all aging. And there's, there's a new crop of people coming up, you know, every week, every year, you know, every decade. And, you know, just getting the word out. I think, I think with the power of the internet and leveraging, you know, the information, you know, we're, you know, we're slowly getting there on the preventative side. Yeah, because we can see it with our device and the guys that don't have ED, that they're buying it for optimization, if you will.

Yeah, yeah. And the biohacking community is growing just generally, like the whole interest in data, people being interested in just making sure that they're keeping an optimal health. Like, you know, there's quite a big community of people that are just interested in that. I mean, you can find those people on Reddit.

Oh yeah, no, the biohacking community is huge. You know, you know, the Joe Rogans of the world and, you know, the Ben Greenfields and all these guys. I mean, and they have massive followings too.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, and these guys really, you know, they do their research and they know what they're talking about. So Yeah. I've been following these guys for a long time, but the bio, we do get a lot of biohackers that buy the Phoenix too.

What about Shark Tank?

It's funny you say that because like I said, I owned a clinic in LA, so I knew a lot of people. I got to meet a lot of people over the years.

Yeah.

And I'll say this, one of the executive producers of Shark Tank was a good friend of mine. It's to this day. So I went to her with the Phoenix when we first came out and she's, this is the, this is the gal. She's the head honcho, right? She says who goes on the show and who doesn't, right? And she looked at me and she goes, Dustin, she goes, they— we've, we've, we've had people come to us with, with products that are, you know, let's say adult in nature or sexual in nature before. They will never ever put that on primetime TV, not on any, you know, I mean, look, if it were some streaming service that wasn't, you know, NBC or ABC or one of these, you know, big, you know, conglomerate companies, You know, maybe, but we tried Shark Tank and they shot us down.

Oh, what a shame. I think I'd love to see you on Shark Tank.

Oh, trust me, it would be a dream of ours to get on Shark Tank. Yeah. Who knows though? Maybe I'll go back to them and see if—

Well, you know what? I know you don't distribute yet in the UK, but when I did actually film for the equivalent of Shark Tank in the UK called Dragon's Den, it's a very similar program. It's been going for ages. And I had a tech business myself and I actually auditioned and went on the show and filmed and everything. And my segment didn't air, unfortunately, which was a shame. But—

Oh, no.

But there was an American guy on our show with a— It was like a crazy kind of Christmas tree base, something odd. Anyway, but he flew over from LA to be on the UK Dragon's Den because similar to Shark Tank, it's got massive viewership. Massive.

Oh, interesting.

And it seems like they take people from other countries So just saying, you might want to look at Dragon's Den.

I want to look into it. Dragon's Den.

Dragon's Den. You can do that. I have in my notes that you created a Men's Sexual Health Week. Is that correct?

Men's Sexual Health what?

Week.

A week? Week.

It said what inspired— I got off your website that something aligned with Launch Medical and Men's Sexual Health Week. Maybe that was just some—

right, maybe it was a— that might have been a typo. No, no, no, that—

no, that's—

I mean, I mean, our industry is already strange enough.

Um, but, um, you know, how does The Phoenix align with your mission to promote just general sexual health awareness? Because that's what— that's certainly what we're all about here at Sex Advice.

Exactly. Well, Here's, so here's how I try to explain it, right? And kind of put it in terms of, you know, I can understand as the average guy is this, the Phoenix we refer to, it's like, it's a tool. It's just, it's a tool in your toolkit, right? And you have, and your other toolkits can be, you know, your daily exercise, your diet, your this, your that. If you use a pump, you know, for extra blood flow, things like that. You know, this isn't, like I said, it's not a silver bullet, but it does get to the root issue, right, of the problem. So, you know, we would never say this solves that, this will solve, you know, all your problems in the bedroom, you know, but we'd say, look, this is a tool in your tool belt, right? You use, follow the protocol, follow, try to follow a healthier lifestyle, and you will see results, you know. So, I mean, we, you know, from the data that we track over the years, we have about a 94% success rate.

Wow. So would you say then, listening to that, that, that often, you know, people only use— we talked about PDE5, Viagra, Cialis, all that kind of stuff. They only use them when they actually have a problem. Would you say that the optimum usage of this is actually to start, you know, to use it on a maybe less frequent basis if you don't yet have a problem? Yeah. It's just as a form of rejuvenation of the you know, of the cells and all this stuff in, in your penis?

Yeah, yeah. So, okay, that's a great question. So, you know, let's just say there's a range of, you know, 1 to 10 guys that, you know, don't have it, you know, you know, any issues in the bedroom getting erect. And then you got your guys that are a 10 that are severe cases, right? So the guys that are, you know, that get over the 5 to 6 to 7 and 8, that, that are, are more severe, yeah, they're going to need to do the protocol more often.

Sure.

The guys that, you know, the guys that are— maybe they don't perform like they were 20, but they're still pretty good rock stars in the bedroom. They'll use it, let's say, several times a year. They'll do 2, 3, 4 protocols a year. You know, maybe they'll do a month on and take 3 months off and then do another month, you know, that kind of thing. So yes, to answer your question, yeah, the guys that, you know, aren't really seeing a huge, you know, issue yet, you know, they'll definitely buy it and they just won't use it as often.

Sure. And would you suggest that it would be that it would work more effectively if it was combined with like a supplement, like a nitric oxide supplement?

Oh, for sure. 100%. Yeah. Yeah. Because nitric oxide, as we, as we both know, is, you know, is huge for, you know, for blood flow. So I take, I take a supplement, a nitric oxide, you know, gummy every single day. Just for blood flow.

Do you?

Yeah. Yeah.

I've been, I've been looking into that.

Yeah. You know, no, I take one every single day for nitric oxide too. Yeah. When you combine it with other, you know, with other, you know, you know, modalities, let's say, you're gonna see better, you're gonna see better results.

Yeah, interesting. I mean, I think you're right. Look, there's, there's a lot of stuff out there. And some of it— most, you know, I would say that what I've noticed is that most men know very little about their own dick, actually.

Very little.

Like, honestly, much less than I thought they would. And they don't seem to really understand how it works, mostly.

You can't just go do an EKG for your penis, you know, down the corner clinic, you know what I mean? So you're right. But you're right, they don't know, you know, how it works and why it works and why it doesn't work. No, you know, they just, oh, I'm just getting older, or, oh, I'm just overweight. Well, you know, let's talk about you know, actually the real, the real causes.

Yeah. Yeah. So like people that know go, oh yeah, of course I do pumping and of course I take nitric oxide and of course I do this. And it's like they're in this very small group of people over here. And then the majority of people just are completely living in the dark about anything. And, oh, and I know every time that I talk to people like yourself, they're like, I don't even understand you know, what she's— what she's going on about. So they have to go to your website, Justin, is basically the thing, and see the device itself, right?

Yes.

Because— because that will give you some clarity around what— what the Phoenix actually looks like and what it looks like, how it works. Right. Yeah.

A lot more information, studies. Yeah. All that stuff. Our quiz is on there if you want to take the quiz.

Yeah. You know, and I think, you know, looking at your device and thinking back to, to things, for instance, like lasers, you know, hair removal products like laser.

Yeah.

This device, hair removal laser, like years ago you couldn't do— you couldn't go anywhere but into a salon or into a specific place to do that. Now there's all these handheld devices. That people buy. You can get them in the pharmacy, you can get them pretty much anywhere. And people have accepted that this kind of technology is perfectly safe to use at home. And I suspect that in, you know, a few years' time, we will start to see that things like the Phoenix, for instance, are not seen as something that is a bit— what is that? But, oh, I don't need to go spend thousands in a clinic. I can just go online and buy one of those, and then I can just do it at home. And Yeah.

It'll become more, yeah, we're hoping it becomes more normalized, you know, if you will.

Yeah. It's just, unfortunately, first mover advantage in your terms means that you have to, you have to.

We're literally, we're paving the way, you know, and it's, and it's, and it's very, very difficult. I'll say that. Yeah. You know, to be the first. So, yeah. But we're very proud of it. We're very proud of it. We're very proud of the results that our guys get. And the stories that we hear are very heartwarming. You know, so it's like at the end of the day, we're helping people too.

Yeah. Yeah. And that's what it's all about. But yeah, but it, but, and, and well done you.

Oh, thank you. I appreciate it. Listen, it's not just me. I have an amazing team, you know, that works alongside me. So partners, teams, affiliates, you know, all those, all those folks, you know, they help this whole thing go around. So. Yeah, it's very exciting.

Thank you so much for appearing on the show. We will be publishing links. I think there's probably going to be some sort of a promo code, maybe.

Good.

Yes, our listeners, and you will be able to see where you can actually find the Phoenix and be able to have a much closer look at what it's all about. But I hope this has been a really great introduction to a really interesting innovation that is potentially life-changing for quite a lot of men.

Yes, thank you so much for having me on.

Thank you.

That was amazing. Bye, everybody.