Episode 151: Use it or You'll Lose It

Suzanne Noble: I'm very excited to welcome our new sponsor, Higher Nature, who have created Rekindle, which I'm currently trying out and is working a treat. A 100% natural libido-enhancing supplement for women, which contains clinically backed ingredients to give your sex life a boost. And who doesn't want that? This week's episode has been sponsored by Oh My Bod, shifting the evolution of pleasure. Hi, this is Suzanne Noble, and you're listening to Sex Advice for Seniors on a lovely sunny London day, which, as those of us who live in London know, is so rare. Yes, and so rare. And I, before I start, I just want to thank some of our sponsors on Sex Advice for Seniors, in particular Higher Nature, who are a really nice supplement company who make really high-quality supplements that do all sorts of good things, especially around sleep and energy and all those things that are so important as we get older. But today I want to welcome somebody that actually was introduced to me by by somebody that actually won the Advantages of Age Activist Award last year, 2 years ago, Jackson Bassett, who is now flying all over the world doing amazing things about positive aging with her campaign, Ageism is Never in Style. She's such a superstar. And she said to me, you gotta meet this woman, Suzanne, because I know that you're gonna get along like a house on fire. Well, and why wouldn't I? Because she runs, she runs an organization called Glorious Broads. Mary Jane Fahy, welcome to Sex and Vibes for Seniors.

Thank you. Happy to be here. I love Jacqueline. I mean, I met her through ARP when I was at ARP, but I loved meeting you. And we in New York are having the most miserable summer. Every day it's dark and dreary and cold and rainy. Oh, well.

Oh well, because we always have summers like that. So any day, any day that we've got the sun is a good day for us. It's a good, it's a good happy day. But tell me about— let's just start by just talking before we get into the juicy stuff like sex and love and relationships and all that stuff. Let's just tell me, what is Glorious Broads?

Sure, I'll tell you about it. Uh, Glorious Broads I like to say that we celebrate unconventional, uncompromising broads over 50. They say no to all the rules. They give the middle finger to them. I find them on the streets. I find them, you know, in, in, in strange ways, often at conferences, but usually on the streets. And I can just tell it's like dating. Ooh, that's going to be a really interesting conversation. And it's grown. It's grown. I think we're a priority. And I, I want that to change. I want women growing older to be very, very visible and unapologetic about everything.

And when do you just stop these women on the streets and just say like, hey, what do you do? Like, especially in New York, like, don't people think you're a nut job when you do that?

Well, in fact, more and more people are hanging out on corners. Not the way to do it when you're in a I go to parks, I go to parks, I seek out women. I'm better off when they're by themselves and not gabbing with another woman in the corner, because you really want to gab. And what's interesting is I would say 8 out of 10 times they want to talk. They want to, you know, they want to, you know, get a little deep about their lives. I think we all like to talk about ourselves, but I didn't know if they would be open to talk about their love and sex life and how aging has worked for them or not worked for them. We get real and they're open.

That's amazing because originally when Advantages of Age first started, the social enterprise that I founded with Rose Rouse, and we've got a Substack as well as I've got this one on my own, we created these little cards that we used to hand out to people that said, you're fabulous and flamboyant, please come and join us. And we would just give them out to people that we just saw on the street and they would have our Facebook group on it. And so that was— I've still got some of those little cards and they're quite funny. And I just thought that that was like a really fun way of trying to build our own community of fabulous and flamboyant people. But let's talk about reinvention because that seems to be a theme in your life. What are the other things that you have done?

Uh, you mean that I focused on?

Yeah, yeah.

Oh, you mean that I myself? Yeah. Oh, I see. Yes. Well, I was very happy in my career for a very long time until I got fed up with it. And I got fed up with it because the publishing business, the print publishing business, really had died. In other words, I used to make a lot of money and suddenly I'm competing with the young people, and yay to young people for doing it for half the money. I didn't have, you know, no, but I always thought I'd be a writer or that I could write. So I took some time off, I put some money away, I took some time off and I started writing a book. It was supposed to be deep and heavy, a novel. And instead, a friend of mine came and visited me. I rented this house in the country. She had broken up with her boyfriend. My boyfriend broke up with me, my husband. And we said, let's write a like Dumped book, a book called Dumped and How to Take Care of Yourself, because it really is a kind of— anyway, we wrote it, we had a ball, we made some money, we, we visited places. And it was then I got a sense of, you know, the community out there, the community of women. Anyway, after that, I didn't start Glorious Broads then, but I sensed what was out there. And I was hired by ARP, um, to, uh, start up something called, uh, I was going to say Aging Disgracefully. No, ARP would not do that. They should though.

They should do. They should, because they need an ARP. For anybody who doesn't know, because most people won't know that, what that is, that's the American Association of Retired People. And we don't really have an equivalent in the UK. We've got a magazine called Saga. But yeah, ARP is very, very specific to America. So anyway, Aging Disgracefully, they weren't buying. So that's—

but instead it was about Reinventing Yourself. And it was great, but I felt they vanillaed down my stories and the women I wanted to do. That's where I got a lesson on how to edit digitally. And I left them and I started Glorious Broads. So in other words, I left this graphics work and creative work, great life until it wasn't. And I love, I love this other world that I'm in, which is creating content. That's what we call it now instead of writing.

Yeah. Yeah. So you are, so you've already been through. Yeah. I hear that you had a relationship and you, and then you didn't have one any longer. And then, so this book that you wrote, what advice would you give to someone over 50 who's, who's really struggling to embrace their next chapter, especially when it comes to their love or their sex life?

Well, I would say I was very much in the habit of substituting another man for that man. I was in a series of monogamous relationships. I was surprised that this husband of mine dumped me, but you know, that did happen. But when I thought about it later, after you get over the heartbreak, I thought, It was good that it happened because I need to break this habit I'm in. And I, I want to say to everybody out there, you might think of the habits you have and you might consider shaking it up. For me, I did not want another long term. I wanted to be really single for— yeah. And I didn't date for about a year, a year and a half, didn't have sex for about a year and a half. But when it came back, it really came back. And I did not want to go with one person. I was a wonderful 50-year-old slut. I shook it up and it was important to. And I also had a relationship with a woman. I mean, that's what I got to realize was so great. I was free and I didn't have to worry about pregnancy and I didn't have to worry about having no money. It was just a very good time. To explore. So that's what I would say, think exploration.

And I think that's such great advice. And also what I'm hearing is that, you know, you don't have to go back to what you had. You can look at what you had and say, I did that, I can park that. Do I want something different? And then go and find that something different. What I also heard, which I think is, you know, important, and I spoke to somebody else the other week about this, about who, written about later life love is the fact that if you are the person that's been dumped, you do need some time to recalibrate.

Yes.

Because it's not— when you're the person doing the dumping, often either you've already got somebody that you're moving on to, and, you know, we, we, we sometimes see that more with men, I suspect, you know, that they've already got somebody lined up to move on. Yeah, although statistically, interestingly enough, it's usually the women who do the dumping at this stage.

Yes, yes.

So it's quite— but it doesn't detract from the fact that whoever is the person that's the dumped one, normally it's unexpected, and therefore it takes a while to move and progress through those stages of grief. And the fact that you're going to move on to something else. Is that— was that your experience?

Oh, it was. I was shocked and I was very heartbroken. So, you know, it was necessary. And also my sister died. So there were a couple of things going on at the whole— at the same time. But in the end, it was never good that my sister died. But it was, it was good that my, my life completely changed. And I realized the habit I was in from going from one man to the other. And that also, I didn't need the addiction of love anymore. I was a love addict. And yeah, and I now really wanted to write, take chances, not have some person that I had to kind of defend that I wasn't making money. It was like, fuck it, I'll take the chances I want to. It was, in the end, it was a great time. Perfect.

And I, and I suspect that one of the advantages that I'm hearing, and I suspect you had, was that financially you were in a place where you were able to pick yourself up and, and, and move on with your life without struggling massively from a financial point of view, which often is the issue that so many women face when they're thinking about ending their relationship, right? Is, yes, actually afford to do that. If you've always been a working woman, if you've always made money, then that sort of thing doesn't— it's not often a consideration or less of a consideration.

Yes. Well, the interesting thing is then when I started Glorious Broad and I started sinking all this money into Glorious Broad, then money became a configuration. But it's different because it's an art project. It's mine. You know, you take the chances and you know you're taking the chances.

Yeah. And so you've met all these amazing women. And if you haven't been on the Glorious Broads website, you got to look at it because there's amazing photographs. And wonderful, wonderful stories. But what do you think are some of the most common misconceptions about aging and sex and sensuality that you've encountered?

Yeah, I would definitely say that my— I would just want to say that my Instagram is the livelier page and the TikTok. I would say when I stop the women on the streets, I would say 70% of them have a very active libido, and I'm talking about women way over 60. Who are in the game. As a matter of fact, that was an expression someone— oh, it was Faith Rangel, the artist. She said, I'm still in the game. It's not until I say I'm not in the game. And then there are the women, and I respect this, who say that maybe it was menopause that threw them off their sexual game, but they're okay with it. They have— they took all of that energy that they put into sex and they put it to art or they put it to real estate, whatever they're into. But yet I was surprised at the amount of women that still view themselves as sensuous, sexual people. And that's what Gloria Sprouts is very about. Like, don't, no, don't cut us off. It's very much the case, you know that.

Yeah, and I suspect that some, that there must be a little bit of self-selection going on there in terms of the fact that these women because you— the visual is quite important in all of this, is the way that they appear, the way that they look, their attitude, their attitude, you know, like all of that stuff, right? And so much of that embodiment of that is rooted also in people's sexuality and people's sensuality and the way that they express themselves in, in, on a sexual level. And I think that often when, when you see those big kind of, you know, that those women with spunk, right? That often it's double entendre there, that, that often it's, it's reflected in, in the fact that they still feel very much as sex— they're still very sexual. Yes.

And, and, you know, I, I really do admire Advanced Style and what he does, but I'm not attracted to the peacocks. You know, it's not the peacocks, get it? It's kind of an inner power that I'm attracted to. And you just feel it. It's fascinating.

Yeah. And you mentioned— I'm going to make you repeat that story about the 80-year-old woman because before we recorded, because it was so funny.

Yeah. Remind me what the hell I said.

So the woman that said that she was 80 and she still had— she had a partner 2 and a half days a week. Oh, yes, yes, yes.

There's a woman who I just put on my Instagram page. Fabulous lady, 82. And she has this person that she sees— well, her lover— 2.5 days a week. And he has said, and she totally agrees, that the best day of the week is when he picks her up and the second best is when he drops her off. And that's what's so great. When you're at this age, you know what you like. You know, you love your home. You know, you don't want to necessarily temporarily have somebody move in and it is okay. I do find that, I mean, I'm with a man who does agree with that. But yes, yes, you said, but I do find that there are a lot of men who are more needy, but that's their problem, not ours.

Yeah, and I think, well, I mean, I, you know, the guy that I hang out with, he's got a, he's got a large family and he's got a large social circle and he's got quite a lot of, he's just always seems to be, there's there always seems to be some sort of drama that follows him around, and I don't need drama. Like, I don't mind hearing the secondhand drama because it's colorful and it's kind of funny. But I don't really want to be drawn into it, frankly. So I suspect if we were any closer, then the reality would be that I'd be dragged into this, and that's just an energy-sucking place for me. Yeah. I don't really need to do that. Seeing him with the frequency that I see him and having the fun that we have is like, it's absolutely perfect. Which sort of brings me to my next question, which was, you know, how do you think women's attitudes towards sex and relationships change as they age, and what role does confidence play in that evolution?

Well, I think you have to go through a real growth to to accept your body as it changed. You're not— you're never going to be 20 again. And it's okay. You know, sometimes I wake up and I say, oh, wow. And you have to have humor about it, as you do. You have to have humor about it. And it's that confidence that walks into a room and that things that, that you draw the energy into you, whether it's sexual, whether it's a next adventure, whether it's just an openness to life in every way. I do think if you keep your health everything, if you keep your health, and you're lucky that way, and you— that I feel my life has opened up rather than— and I, and I meet so many women that feel that way. And that means sexuality too. I mean, it's, it's gender curiosity, is, I guess, You know, I think I've met so many women and myself too, that as you see the clock ticking, you're like, oh, there's a lot of things I haven't done. Let's do them.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. For me, I often think, you know, for me, I just keep saying that I want to travel, I want to travel, but then I'm like, and I do want to travel, but then I have to create a life for myself and, and the circumstances and, and the and the model of my life that enables me to have the freedom to do that and the finances that enable me to do that. So I'm always kind of juggling all of that against the reality of the stuff that I enjoy doing at home, like singing and performing and hosting events and doing all of that. And I'm like, oh, well, how does that measure up against traveling and doing all of that and having somebody that I enjoy being with here? And then, you know, like traveling on my own. And so I think, yeah, there's there's, there's this world of, of, of opportunity out there, but it's creating the right environment for all of it to occur. And I think, as you said, the bottom line with all of it is your health, right?

Yeah.

Without that, like, life can be really shit, frankly.

Yes. Yes. There's a wonderful friend of mine. I think I mentioned her to you last time we spoke, Elizabeth White. And she was talking about Yeah. And talking about adjusting your reality, your mindset. In other words, I always wanted to live in Paris for about 2 years. I don't know that that's going to happen because I have a lot of things on my agenda that I want to do here, you know, a television show, blah, blah, blah. But she did say to me, but you can go for 2 months. Yes, I can go for 2 months. And that would be lovely. So, you know, little adjustments to your big plan and being okay with that.

Yeah, no, that's— I think that's absolutely right. And I've started to already make those adjustments, like, oh, maybe if that happens, I won't go away for 2 months. I'll go away for a month and then I'll come back and then maybe I'll go over there somewhere because I have got some friends. I'd like to do that. But yeah, I think, I think that's absolutely right. It's just about It's about looking at that big dream and then thinking, is that a realistic dream or is it not? And I think, you know, for me, that applies totally to my relationships as well. It's like so many times I get people telling me, oh, but you know, it would— wouldn't it be great if you had somebody that was like this, you know, this amazing man who just thought that you were amazing, but he was financially secure, and he would travel, and he would do the— like, this crazy, you know, idealistic person, right? And he was kinky, and he didn't mind you having an open relationship, and he'd let you carry on with the people that you like carrying on with, and all that sort of stuff. And I'm like, you know, come on.

Yeah, that's it.

It's just stupid.

Yeah, it's a dream that you had when you were 20, not now, you know.

Yeah, and you have to just— and you just have to sit with that, accept it, and go, it's okay, it's okay.

And then that has everything to do with your confidence. Yeah, it would be really great if I had a six-pack, but fuck it, and it's okay.

Yeah, exactly. No, and you know, what do you think are the biggest barriers to women— we've sort of started talking about this— over 50 enjoying a really great sex life, and how can we help them overcome overcome those barriers?

Well, I'm going to bring up the same thing of confidence, of just, you know, accepting where you are. I am not anti do whatever you want to your face, but I would really say, do you want to spend, you know, $15,000 on your face instead of going to Paris for 2 months? It's really about accepting yourself in every way and widening what your sexual picture might be. In other words, it doesn't have to be the ideal god you thought you wanted at, at 30 or 40. It can be a funny-looking guy who's great in the sack, but you don't know— or, or woman, but you don't know until— it's all about widening. You know?

Yeah, yeah. And also about going back to those tick boxes, I think, is chucking the tick boxes out the window.

Yes.

I'm thinking, what, what does— what does— for me, it's like, what does great sex have to do with, with other things that go on in relationships? Like, I can have great friends And the, the great sex person doesn't have to meet all my emotional needs.

Absolutely.

You know, the girlfriends can meet my emotional needs, my best friend can meet my emotional needs. Like, the great sex guy can be just like the great sex guy. He can just be somebody that is like the maestro of pleasure in whatever way I enjoy that, and he doesn't have to step up in like gazillion different ways, you know.

No, no, no. These are all bullshit myths that were sold to us when we were 20, even 30, even 40.

Yeah.

So confidence is just about, you know, sounds so corny, but sometimes I do it if I'm— right now I'm boxing and I'm doing it to get stronger and it is such fun. I step out outside of my world of trying to get better, kind of look better, into like, I am just going to get strong. And it's, it's about a different kind of confidence, strong confidence, and not how do I look. Yeah, I think that's such a trap. It's such a trap that beauty companies get rich over. Don't fall for it.

And I love boxing. Do you know that I started— I've done boxing on and off for, for years. I haven't done it recently, but I used to Years and years ago, I had this— I walked into a gym and there was this little guy who was like training with somebody. And obviously I could tell from his technique and everything, he really knew what he was doing. So I asked him if he would teach me. And so for a while, I used to meet him at the gym and we used to, you know, do all sorts of things. And I've done that with various trainers and stuff. And I always say to people, there is a sexy sound that the glove makes when it hits the pad just in the right way. The sound is like, when you get it right, it's like sex. It's just like perfect. When you get it wrong, you're like, "Oh, it just sounds— it's just slightly off." So I used to love doing jabs and punches and hooks and stuff and getting that. When the sound was right, I was like, "Yes, me." But fucking, it's totally exhausting, is it not?

Oh my God. You in, in 5 minutes, I'm sweating like a monster.

It's so tiring.

Yes, it is tiring.

You look at boxers and you're like, how the hell did they do this?

Oh my God. And now I'm watching every boxing movie ever made. But I guess that's what I'm saying. I'm not the perfect person, but to step out of, you know, the area that you knew and how's it look, you're never gonna— I don't— I, I I don't care. I just want to be strong and healthy.

Yeah, but look, being strong is super sexy. And I, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm with somebody that's fit, and so I'm—

it's nice.

I know that I have to be fit. Like, I can't take my clothes off and have him go, 'Ick,' because like part of the deal with— well, I don't know about you, but I think part of the deal with if you want to be a single woman on this you know, and you want it, and you want to have sex on a regular basis, and you don't necessarily want to get involved with someone and do all of that kind of stuff, then you have to keep yourself in good physical shape. Yes, that's kind of the deal with, with, like, the law of attraction. I think it's just, yeah, you have to, you have to look good. So when I take my clothes off, I have to, I have to feel good in myself, but I also have to be with somebody who's like Yeah, that's, that's, that's good.

I'll take that. I mean, and it may change. Someone may be big and love themselves big.

I—

we all have different definitions. You have to let go of what you were when you were 20 and just be the best you can, you know? Yeah.

There's something about strength, about being strong as an older woman. Like, I have a friend of mine who's really into weights now. And she wrote an article for Advantages of Age today about feeling sexy at 71. And part of that for her is about the confidence that being strong gives her. Yes, there is a real kind of like— there's something about being strong when you're older. I suppose, you know, now that I reflect on it, I suspect it's a lot about that we associate being older with being frail.

Yes, exactly.

Yes.

And to defy those stereotypes. Absolutely. Yeah. And I think, you know, people like you and I, and I'm meeting so many of them, that we show the possibilities. And it's great for the young women to see there's nothing to fear. This is what it can be. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, you know, it takes work. But she can do it.

It takes work. Yes, it definitely takes work. And with each year, say, oh, now I have to put 5 minutes into my feet.

I know, I know, I know.

Yeah. And that's a fact that young people need to know. I mean, they don't need to know about when they're 20, but like, oh, 40? Okay, you better add another 5 minutes onto your workout. It's just a fact. And health is everything.

Yeah. Well, my mother is in her 80s and I've— you can't see it, but I've got this really not very pleasant stye on my eye. Which I keep getting, which just keeps coming back, which is not sexy at all. And my mother, who's in her 80s, you know, she's got, like we said, she's got her whole routine planned out, right? So she said to me, "Do you not bathe your eyes at night? Do you not stick warm compresses on your eyes? Do you not, do you not, like, bathe your eyes and rub them in this particular way and put warm compresses on them and do this and do that?" And I'm like, She's like, "Because, you know, that's how you avoid getting Constance Dyes, Suzanne." And I'm like, "No, Mom. I know you've told me this before, but I don't do it." My mother, by the way, looks amazing, right? But she's so disciplined when it comes to all of this stuff. She does— She's got her exercises in the morning. She puts her warm compresses on her eyes. She walks a lot. She does all this kind of stuff. It's just like, oh my God, how long does this all take?

It takes long.

Yes.

And it only keeps getting longer and longer. And that's a fact. As you said, it's work. It's work to be alive and to be sexual and to be sensual. It does take work. Yeah. To enjoy sex, it takes— you want to be agile. You want to be able to receive and feel it. You don't want a dead body.

Yeah, totally. And look, you know, it just— everything just takes longer, right? So you just have to, you know, unless you're one of these incredibly lucky people. But, you know, certainly for me, everything takes so long now that I have to— sometimes I bore myself. And I was like, you know, I can't— I can't be asked. Yesterday I went through 3 different vibrators at night because the usual ones, the usual ones were in— in— they were— they were in my bag. I couldn't be bothered to go downstairs and pick them up. And so I was like, digging around at all the ones that I've been given to review. And I was like, oh, let me try this again. Let's see. And I was like, oh, this is so shit. I love it. Yeah, crap. This is crap. I can't stand this one. And I was— I'm such a creature of habit. And then I—

yeah, you know, toys, toys are so important to keep us sexually alive, right? Totally. Vibrators. All of the women, even if they're off sex, they just said, well, toys keep me alive. It keeps us juicy.

Yeah, you have to use it or you lose it. Yes. You know, that's the thing. But, but yeah, not all of them are great. And I've got to, you know, last night I was reminded, like, clean your bloody toy cabinet out. Like, all of this stuff that I've been given, not all of it is, is, is, you know, works for me. They might work for something else. I get— I give them to my friends after I've sterilized them. Yes. Here you can have them. But, um, is there anything else that you'd love to tell us, Mary Jane?

Let's see if there's anything else I'd love to say. Um, you know, I, I just can't say enough of how you need to give the fingers to society in every way. Um, it's not just unconventional women that I'm drawn to in Glorious Broadsides. But women who just don't buy anything that's thrown at us. And it's not just over 50. I think all that comes at us from when we're 20s is sorting through the lies, but especially when we hit midlife. No, I'm not going to be invisible. And don't tell me that I'm invisible. It's like taking that stand in the room in every way, sexually, powerfully, that will really— that will keep you more and more open in life.

Yeah. No, I think that is a very, very wise point of view. And, you know, more, more people should consider that. I always think with invisibility, some people really are happy being invisible. And it's a bit like if you don't want to have sex, it's cool. Like if you, if you've been, if you've been like gorgeous, invisible, and it's just bugged the hell out out of you because you've just been the subject of the male gaze your whole life and you're so sick of it.

Yes.

And you just want to put a bag over your head and just get on with whatever it is you want to do. That's cool, right?

That's cool because it's your choice.

But it's your choice. And I think that's the thing is like we don't all have to just fade away if we don't want to, you know?

If you don't want to. And I always forget this woman's last name, Paulina, but that beautiful model. Suzanne Noble, who talks about invisibility all of the time. Petrova, she's—

oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And she talks about how she felt so bad about herself. She, she's a goddess and she walked down the street, but people wouldn't react. That is depending on others for your visibility. And that's not what we're talking about. You know, we're in charge. You want to go invisible? Good for you. If you— it's not depending on others. But that, again, you know, you may have to go through something to get to, to get at that stage in life. Well, you have to go through it. It's life.

No, and that's, and that's 100% true. And I always say to people that I, you know, that I grieved over my libido not being what it was, you know, when I was in my 40s, not being as visible as I had been when I was younger. But then you reach a different place in life where it's like, you're— and you're good with it. The thing that I always say is if you're trying to recapture something from your 20s, like, forget about it. That's not going to lead you to any place of happiness. But if you can get to this new place— yes, you are in— and just, you know, accept that, then that's— that can be an awesome place to be.

I agree with you. Getting over that hump You got, you got to go over that hump and then it's good.

Yeah, and then the world is your oyster.

That's right.

I'm hoping that I'm gonna be in the East Coast in the autumn, so it would be so fun. And so I hope I will see you then. And yes, in the meantime, thank you so much for coming on Sex Advice for Seniors. It's been so nice to have you.

Thank you.

Enjoy that dreary old day in New York.

Ah, thank you. I will, despite—