Episode 56: That darn dating profile

Hello, I'm Suzanne Noble, and I'm Zoe Krawczyk, and you are listening to Sex Advice for Seniors sponsored by, once again, Sunset Satisfaction. And we have a sponsor to our podcast this time as well called Nikki Kenward, who does all sorts of interesting treatments, and you can find out more about her on Substack. If you're not listening to us via Substack, if you subscribe to Substack, you'll actually receive this podcast pretty much on a weekly basis, downloaded straight to your inbox. So nobody has to know except you that you're listening to us, if that is something that concerns you, which it might. And yeah, we thought today that we would talk about dating profiles because dating profiles are often the first entry point when you are online dating to discovering and deciding whether or not you want to meet this person. And you can spend a lot of time on them, you can spend no time at all, you can say a lot, you can say little, and Aside from your picture, which is a, which is something that we definitely need to talk about, the what you actually say is really important because it's you. So yeah, let's talk about that, Zoe.

Yeah, I mean, I think what you say is really important if you're really looking to have a sort of substantive connection with someone, right?

Any connection really, I think.

I mean, well, that, that begs the— that, yeah, it begs the question, like, if you are really looking just for sex partners, does it really matter what you say so much, or just the imagery that you put out there?

I would say it totally, totally matters. I would say it matters in every type of relationship, from casual to serious to I'm just looking for somebody that I can marry. Absolutely. I don't think that as a woman who has casual sex I have ever entirely connected with a picture of a person's dick before, you know. Like, I've had to— I've had to have some awareness for a number of reasons. Firstly, there's a safety aspect to meeting people for casual sex which cannot be ignored. So you kind of want to get the impression that this person is not a serial killer.

Yes, totally.

You know, because you're meeting them, you want to paint a picture of yourself.

Yes, right.

So yeah, you have to establish that you're not a serial killer. Like, quite how you do that is— yeah, that's probably— a psychopath would be very good at convincing me he wasn't. But yeah, just generally, I like to have some basic information, okay, for me. Like, going— let's start with the casual ones, casual ones. I don't want to shag a guy who's married. Well, sure, of course, but some people don't mind. But I do. Like, you know, I, I want it to be out in the open, like we're all in this together. So I don't really want the 'oh, she doesn't understand me' kind of guy, right?

Yes. Totally. But do you— but, but in terms of dating profiles, are people putting it out there that they're married?

Yeah. Okay. Or, or some— yes, sometimes they do. Yes, yes. On casual dating sites, people will often tell you they're married. Yeah, for sure. Because, because you're just there, you know, it— the, the idea is you're just there for sex. So why does it matter if I'm married or not? Right?

Right. I mean, you're not my decision. That's, that has nothing to do with you. It's my decision. And yeah. So, um, so yeah, what I, what I would love to know from you, Suzanne, because you are the, you're, you're much more of the dating world expert here. Um, it's been a little while since I've been dating. Um, not that long, but, um, I'm curious what your— what you look for, what you feel like are the essentials when you're putting out a dating profile. What are— what are the essential things to look to?

Well, one of the first things that both sexes see is your picture. And just— I'm gonna just give you a little anecdote that's got nothing to do with dating, but it has everything to do with dating. In that I was at a sex club on the weekend, and, and as you do, and most of the women were dressed really glamorously, and they'd done their hair, and they'd done their makeup, and they were wearing sexy clothes. And then the guy standing in front of us in the, in the queue to get in was wearing a pair of shorts, like just cargo shorts, and a shirt like a normal shirt that looked like he just come off the golf course. And in fact, the guy that I was with, he was just wearing a nice pair of black trousers and a nice black shirt. So this is not a difficult thing to find. Looked and said to me, are they gonna let that guy in? Right? And I went, oh, I don't know, because it says on the wall, smart clothes only. So maybe they won't let him in, but they did let him in, right? And to me, that says everything about how men perceive what they need to do to make themselves sexually attractive, right? Because we were going there to have sex. We were not going there to just like have a casual drink and blah blah. And this is typical of most of every dating site that you confine men on. It's just the women tend to make more of an effort, and they try and look good, and they try and reflect themselves in the best possible light. They might have somebody professionally take their pictures, they might get a friend to take pictures and pick the best one. But the number of times you will come across a man with a blurry image of his face, too close to the camera, out of focus bad clothes on, not thinking at all about his appearance, is probably, I would estimate, 90% of all male profiles on dating sites. 90%, right? So these guys are coming on with the intention of finding someone for something— sex, dating, relationship, short, long, Yeah, I—

the thing that always kills me is the picture that they've, they've cropped just their head. Like, clearly there's someone else in the, in the picture, often an ex, that they're like— they've got their arm around and they're sort of, you know, and then they just cut out their head. Um, and it's just like, really, couldn't you just take a real picture?

No, no, I had one.

Put it like, like bury it in the slide deck a little bit. You know, um, I, I'll tell you something. The thing when I was online dating, I had not the longest online dating foray and it was many years ago now, but I did. One of the things that really bothered me with men is that, you know how they always say women are heavier than, than they, than their pictures portray. They— I mean, in general, men are older and shorter. And I don't— I'm 5'2", so I really— I don't, I don't really care. Like Mike, I would— I dated a guy who was 5'2" at one point, and that was okay, but it wasn't my favorite. I like to feel small. And so, but other than that, you know, like 5'5" and over, I'm fine with. So that doesn't bother me. But I, you know, I met somebody at one of my favorite restaurants one night, and we had been chatting online. And, you know, on paper, he was a very accomplished psychiatrist. And I thought, you know, like, this might be interesting. He seemed interesting. And I got there and I was looking around. He came in. I was waiting for him in the lounge area. Before we got a table. And this guy walked in and I thought, wow, that looks like— I don't remember his name now— Mark. That looks like Mark, but like 25 years older than his picture. And I was like, that better not be him. That better not be him. And he comes up and he said— and it's him. And I was like, oh my goodness. And which, you know, I, I, I mean, what's the point of doing that? You know, what's the point? And then he tells me that I said, how are you today? And he said, I'm good. I went to the doctor today and I found out that I didn't lose any additional inches. I've lost 5 inches in the last 3 years. And I thought, okay, okay.

Oh my God. I mean, look, it's the lying that, that, that people do straight off. I will take a few years off my age because I know that 60 is a bit of a cutoff point for dating women. So I feel like, look, if I got to take a few years off my age, I will. Friend of mine's taken loads of years off his age, and I told him, I caught you out initially, you know, at the very beginning. And that was— I, I honestly didn't care. Like, the age thing, if you want to age yourself down a few years, I don't really care, as long as You still look like your picture. Like, that's it. If you, if you want to age yourself down by 5 years, age yourself down, but look like your picture and reflect in your profile the person that you feel that you really are. I mean, I dated a guy for, for about a 4 years, and I did find his profile like super cute. And when I reflect upon it, it was the thing. He had a super cute little picture. It was so quirky and fun and cute. It's just a headshot, but he just looked, he just looked a bit, you know, he was like gorgeous, but he just had something about him. He had a little sparkle about him. And then in his profile, he said that he always put the toilet seat down, which is important to me. He really, really loves coffee, which I found out he really, really did. Like, he was—

he's my— look, I'm holding up my coffee cup. He's my guy.

Yeah, right. I mean, I'm a 1 cup of coffee a day person, and I go straight to the toilet. Probably too much information. He was like a 4-cup-a-day guy, 5, whatever. Nothing didn't hit the sides for this guy, right? He said he loved art and culture and going to galleries and stuff. And he was a part-time visual artist himself. And he did just love going to galleries and things. And he was always invited to gallery openings. And so we spent a lot of weekends going around galleries and stuff, which I really did enjoy. You know, and we were able to share all of that. And so the thing that, the thing that was surprising about what ultimately happened though is that I said in my profile that I was a weekend-only girl, that I wasn't looking for a regular full-time relationship, that I basically didn't really know what I wanted, but that I wasn't really free during the week and I just wanted to meet people from Friday to Sunday. Hang out with them, have fun, and then say sayonara. That was what I wanted. And I thought that was super clear. And he responded to that. And we started off in that way. And very— and soon it started sliding into weekdays and stuff, which, you know, I was like, I'm not so sure about this. And ultimately during the pandemic, he moved in with me, which was really crap for me, but good for him because actually he didn't want a weekend-only girl. That was the thing. He really, really didn't. And he really struggled with this whole idea of me being this weekend-only girl. And he used to tell me like, I'm finding this really difficult. And I was like, 'But I was so clear about this. Like, what was it you didn't see? Because I was so— I'm so clear.' And then I said, you know, that I wasn't monogamous and blah blah blah. And then we got into this monogamous relationship, and then I was just like, 'Mm, do you know I'm not really that good on monogamy and everything?' And then he's like, 'I don't really do anything aside from monogamy.' So eventually I said to him, I have to ask you, like, I know that we're having a great time and all of that, but what was it about my profile that made you contact me? Because we are very different in many different ways. And obviously—

and, and, and one of the most important way— ways is what you want in a relationship, in a connection. Which you explicitly said on your profile.

I was so clear. And basically what happened was he saw my picture, he thought, she's got a good body, she's quite hot. And then he hadn't had sex in a really, really long time, like a really long time, so he wanted to get laid. And I had said I was up for just having some fun. So he thought, here's a woman who's up for having some fun and she's attractive, so I'm gonna contact her. And I—

yeah, and then— and go on.

Yeah, I— and that's what I was. But then he moved the— kept moving the goalposts on me all the time.

Yeah, but you know what, Suzanne? Anybody who's gonna hang out with you and have fun is gonna catch feelings for you because you're so fabulous, and then he's gonna want more and more and more. Well, yeah, I mean, you can't blame him for that. No, if I lived with you in the pandemic, I would be like, you know, giving you a ring. I'd be on a knee.

Thank you, Zoe, that's very kind of you to say that. But, you know, I mean, the bottom line was that I didn't set I started to blur the boundaries for me, and the more I did that, the more unhappy I became. Because when I said what I wanted— of course I really did want that. Like, of course every once in a while somebody might bowl me over, but you know what, the people that I consider those people now that might bowl me over are the people that are going to get me from what I said, and then continue to let that just be me. Right.

Listen, here's, here's what I do know about relationships. I'm not a dating expert. And I don't, I don't coach, I coach on, on, you know, sex and intimacy way after the dating phase. And so, but I, but I, this is what I do know about relationships is that We enter into relationships so unintentionally. We don't— for most people, what I hear is that you, you are pretty defined and you, and you reflect, you self-reflect to figure out what it is that you actually want. Most people don't do that. And the default is that the right way, if we were all doing this the right way, we would be dating to get married in long-term monogamous marriages, right? And so there's this sort of unspoken permission for people to sort of pursue that, either, either consciously or subconsciously pursue that relationship paradigm. And so then all of this behavior around that starts to— can be manipulative. It can be passive-aggressive, it can be sneaky, and it can be just sort of violating of boundaries and sort of with this unspoken impunity.

Yeah.

You know, like, that's the way you do this.

How?

What do you— you know, and that it's the unusual person is the person who says, you know, I just want weekends. I'm not looking for a committed monogamous relationship, you know.

Yeah, yeah, no, and I recognize that. I recognize that society pushes us into trying to constantly go towards what is the norm, and that those of us who fall outside of that, you know, we sometimes do get coerced into trying to align ourselves with the norm, which always ends up making people like me just feel desperately unhappy and pissed off. But you know, other people may be, like you say, I think the word that I heard there that I think is the important word is with intent, with intent. And that is the thing I would say going back to dating profiles is the key is decide what you want with the intention of trying to align yourself with a person who feels a similar way. With intent. That means sometimes that you have to swipe past the person that may look really hot and you may think is really attractive, but who suggests in their profile stuff that, you know, maybe they're very religious, maybe they, you know, maybe they have 5 cats and you're allergic to cats, maybe, you know, maybe they have— they're still caring for a young child and you've, you know, and your parenting days are over and you don't want to engage in that anymore. Like, sometimes we have to be clear enough in our minds about what we do and don't want. And I think we can design relationships that we do want if we consider what it is we do want and we go into it with intent. And that way we stop wasting everybody's time on all these sites where you're from, especially as a woman, fucking bombarded with nonsense and stuff. And you just think, you didn't read this, you didn't look at this, you didn't consider anything. You just saw a pair of legs that you liked or some red lipsticks that you wanted somewhere on your body or whatever. But it's not, it's not a useful way to spend your time, is it? Is to have to go through hundreds of these profiles because somebody just can't be asked with reading what you've written.

Well, yes, it's so interesting. My husband used to do a ton of online dating, and he— I guess maybe it was OKCupid at one point. I, I don't— I've never been on that site, but do they ask a lot of questions?

Match.com has loads, like loads.

Yeah, I'm not— I don't think it was that. One of the platforms he was on, the whole point of it was that they do ask a lot of questions.

Does do that as well, actually.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so that you get a really good sense of who this person is, like, it— by the time you're actually chatting there's a lot that you know about them. And I think eHarmony used to be that way too, way back in the day. And so he was talking to this woman, she said, you know, tell me about yourself. And he said, well, what do you want to know? I've, I've answered about a billion questions and there's like everything you ever want to know about me is now on that, on my profile. And she said, oh, I don't have time to read any of that. And he was just like, okay, then you don't have time for a relationship. Click.

You know, that's crazy. But yeah, yeah, but there's so many people, or they think, oh, maybe, maybe I'm the one that's gonna be the outlier, that's gonna be the one that gets through all of that. And, you know, look, sometimes opposites attract, and, you know, and I do consider sometimes, like, you know, would I Would I seriously date somebody who, like, voted for Donald Trump, for instance? Probably not, really. I probably wouldn't. But, you know, I— and it— but it's interesting. So flipping the narrative around, I was with somebody a few months ago and he was a guy. He wasn't like incredibly tall, but he was, you know, he's probably about 5'8" or something, I would say. He had a really good job. He was a lawyer. Um, he'd had some medical problems in his youth that meant, um, that impacted on his dick, but not in a way that he couldn't— he took a medicine every day to ensure that it was able to operate in a sexual— with sexual penetration. But it wasn't like the biggest dick you ever saw, and it wasn't like a micro penis either. It was It wasn't— it was, you know, it's probably on the slightly smaller side of the scale, but nothing that, you know, it was still a perfectly nice dick, right?

Did he put that on his dating profile?

But he said that a lot of women that he met were size queens, and they were saying to him, oh, you know, your dick isn't big enough, or you're not tall enough. And he's like going, what is it with all these women? They just want to be with tall guys with like humongous cocks. And all this kind of thing. And I thought it was interesting to hear his perspective as a decent— well, until, until he dumped me in a rude way, which— so not so decent guy. But aside from that, he was up until that point, he was a decent guy, uh, a decent guy with a good job, a nice, you know, quite funny, attractive. But he felt that he wasn't matching up to a lot of women's expectations, especially ones looking for just casual sex. And I thought that was really interesting. Yeah, because, you know, it's usually the women that always feel, I think, oh, maybe we're just not attractive enough, right? So it's interesting to hear his perspective on it.

Sure, sure. Yeah. So, so what, what is— what's the takeaway from this conversation? Is it to be honest, to paint a picture of yourself as a real human being, a dimensional human being, even if it's just that you're looking for sex? Give some information there that, that lets people know that you're a human being and that you've thought this through and this is what you want. Right.

Yeah. I think also you can help yourself enormously by asking others to help you. So you can ask someone to take a picture of you, like a friend or a family member. You can ask a friend what they consider to be your best characteristics. You can ask somebody else what they, you know, what they would write if they were going to date you, what they would say. Somebody who you may know on a platonic level. Okay, obviously when you're going for a sexual thing, that may not be appropriate, but just in the general dating world, I think you can really benefit a lot from asking the opinion of others to help you to construct your profile, because often the way that you see yourself is not the way that others see you. So I think it's useful to know how others see you. Like, you know, does somebody think you're actually really funny? Like The guy I was telling you about, he may not have thought he was really funny, but he was really funny. And he was, he had like a really dry, really dry, quite dark sense of humor that I found quite, I really found that quite attractive. I knew that when he looked at somebody on the street in a certain way, he was forming a very funny opinion in his brain. That I would sometimes ask him to share with me, and it was usually incredibly inappropriate but funny. So I thought that was kind of fun. So yeah, ask people's opinion, get yourself a really decent picture. Don't write too much. You don't need to write too much, but the salient details are important. Like, do you see your kids at the weekend? You know, do you have pets? Do you have a disability? It's, you know, you do— you look, you have to point that stuff out. Maybe not on your profile, maybe you can save that for the first date or when you're chatting or something like that. But you know, it is important to know these things so that the other person can make a decision.

Yeah. Yes, because what good does it do to then for you to have to then reveal things and, and have it sort of be weighty and heavy. Better to just put it all out there.

Exactly.

And whoever, whoever sees you, and you know, they'll respond. Yeah, right.

And look, it is more difficult for guys for sure, because that's just the way the world is. It's, you know, that's in the heteronormative world, it's normally women that get pursued by men, and that's normally the way it works. But you can benefit, you can do the best you can do is to present yourself in the best possible light. And I know that the people that I choose to spend my time with are the people that have been very clear from the outset what they want, what they're looking for. And their picture doesn't make me want to run away. Yeah, that's as, that's as good as it gets.

Yeah, the, the, the, the thing I want to tag— I know we're sort of wrapping, but there's one more thing that I, that I kind of want to touch on, and that is— and this may be another, another discussion for another time But it is, it is easier for women, right? But in the online dating world, men often will date much younger.

Yes, that's true.

And I, I remember that I was, you know, when I turned 50 or like 49, I was like, yeah, like I'm gonna, I'm, people are gonna search up through 49 and they're not like, I'm gonna put myself into another category here. And I was very young. I mean, I looked and I acted and behaved 10 years younger than I really am all, all the time. So I didn't want to lie, but I didn't want to, you know, like age myself out of the dating pool. So there is a little bit of that. It's not with any kind of intent for misrepresentation, but it is like, look, I'm a young— sometimes I, for a little while, I put up a profile that I had put my chronological age in younger than I was, but then in the description I said I'm actually, you know, whatever it was, 48 or 49. But I think it was 45 that I was dating, and I felt like over 45 I was not getting any hits other than 70-year-old men. Yeah, I mean, so, and then I described, I said, you know, I'm actually 46 or whatever, and I put 45. 5, so that I don't—

yeah, you know, I would also say something that we haven't discussed, and I do think, you know, it's the reason why a lot of older women sometimes feel disappointed by the whole thing, is that typically— I, I— okay, I'm just gonna really generalize here, but typically my experience is that most of the people that I meet through dating sites expect to have sex at some point, like, mostly sooner rather than later. Not necessarily on the first date, but they are expecting to be in a sexual relationship with the person that they're dating or, or try— or meeting. And I know that for some older women that really just are looking for companionship more than a sexual, uh, component in their relationship, that is hard. And that is hard. And I, and I'm not gonna lie, like, if you really are looking for a relationship with no sexual component, most men aren't gonna find that very attractive. That's my experience. And I, I'm, I'm just gonna say that because I know that there are a lot of women that I know that are reluctant to do online dating because they feel pressurized into having sex. And I think, look, you know what, these guys want to have sex. I don't know what to tell you.

Well, it just— I mean, I think that that's— it begs the question, what is dating? You know, does dating involve sex? Is dating for romance? Does romance include necessarily include sex. Like, what are you looking for? If you're looking for a— are you looking for a date? Are you looking for a non-sexual romance? I don't know. It's a, it's an interesting question, especially over 60.

Yeah. And, and again, I, because I've met people that I intend to have sex with, then I'm then, you know, my approach is around that. And I know that part of the reason why, you know, why I get to meet people is because of that. But equally, I suspect that if you really don't intend to be sexual in a relationship and you have an urge to have a male companion, if we're talking about heteronormative kind of relationships, then you have to say that too. Like, I'm just looking for a friend, right?

Yeah.

It's not— it's not— I'm not looking to be intimate on a sexual level or whatever, because again, you— that is— that is something that you need— people need to know that. And I think there is an expectation that I hear from men, you know, well, they just didn't want to ever have sex. And it's like, oh, okay, that's, yeah, that's challenging, you know.

Yeah. So, so, and there might be, there might be some men who, uh, who aren't so interested in that, who really are interested in a companion. I mean, there might be a match for you, but you have to— I think no matter what it is, you need to, to think about what it is you want and be clear about that. Communicate that.

Yep, yep, yep. For better or for worse, you know. Yeah, you got to put stuff out there.

There's some— there's someone for everyone.

Yeah, and I do believe that. And it does take a lot of energy, and not everybody has the energy to do what, you know, what I've done in the past. Not so much anymore, but it does, you know, you have to, you have to want it. You have to want to meet somebody in whatever context. And yeah, and I hope that's been helpful.

Yeah, I hope so too.

And don't forget, everybody, to please share, like, leave us your comments, tell us about your experiences, do all that stuff. By the way, the TikTok channel Sex Advice for Seniors today finally hit 55,000 followers.

Yay!

Which feels like a little milestone 'cause I've been looking at it at 54,900 for so long and I was sick to death of it. So it's finally hit 55,000 and I hope that is a sign that it's going to go up again. But anyway, follow us on TikTok and do all that stuff. Goodbye, Zoe.

Goodbye, Suzanne Noble.