Episode 60: For the Love of Dick

Hi, I'm Suzanne Noble, Third Time Lucky. I'm Zoe Noble, and you're listening to Sex Advice for Seniors. And in the pre-planned way that we do with this show, Zoe texted me about 5 minutes before this and said, what are we talking about, Suzanne? And I said, 'How about blowjobs?' And she went, 'Oh yeah!' with about 5 exclamation points. So I think that sounded positive to me.

Yeah, I'm so excited because anytime I— maybe I've said this here and shared this here, but, um, I am a scrotum evangelist. I, I don't know if it's because I'm just fascinated by this part of the body that must feel so different from the way my crotch feels to have this thing hanging down there, but it's just sort of like, um, yeah, I'm fascinated. I'm fascinated, and I love scrotums, and anytime that I can have an opportunity to get on my soapbox about the most underrated part of the male anatomy. So I figured, yes, blowjobs. This is— that's very— that's in close proximity and with a little optional involvement of the scrotum, of course.

And there are many other body parts that we know you can involve alongside the blowjob. It's, you know, there is a— there's a whole— there's a whole pleasure zone there. The scrotum, the perineum, your prostate. Like, you know, there's so much other stuff going on down there that you can, that you can play around with. And I think, you know, I think I've said this before, before I met you, but, um, but when I was younger and I didn't really understand about male anatomy at all, I thought that the nerve endings and everything that was going on was at the base of the penis. And I thought that's why Linda Lovelace had that Deep Throat movie I didn't— I thought so she could get all the way down to the bottom because that's mostly where the exciting stuff is. And then I was like— and then of course somebody very kindly taught me what I was doing wrong, which was probably the best lesson I've ever had in, you know, male anatomy. And he was like, I, I honestly don't know what you're doing, but it's not going on down there. And I went, oh really, is it? Oh, okay, I didn't know that. So what should I be doing? And he, he taught me about the head and the little— that little bit just in under the head where the sensitivity is.

The frenulum, the technical term.

Thank you for that technical term, Suzanne Noble Noble.

The little wrinkly part.

And that he taught me about that. And I, yeah, and then I, and then that transformed my abilities. And then since then, I have been told, I don't mind telling you, I was, I was with a boyfriend once and we were, we brought back this couple and she was Spanish and very hot. And she said, I'm not going to try and do a Spanish accent because I'm bloody awful at it. She said, have you ever had a blowjob from a Spanish girl? And he said, no, but I've had it from a New York Jewish girl, and it doesn't get better than that.

There's a sort of a cultural narrative or an urban myth or whatever that Jewish women don't give head.

Really?

Yeah, right.

That was never his experience.

Well, I don't think that it, that it, that it rings true. I don't think that it plays out that way at all, but that's the sort of mythology.

Yeah, messes with their nails.

Yeah, yeah.

But yeah, I mean, one of the things that I recognized after that initial lesson was that A, I've been doing it all wrong, but B, and subsequent to that, was that, you know, just like going down on a woman, every guy likes it differently. Every single one. I've never met two that like it exactly the same. They just— oh, it's like, oh, maybe a bit slower, a bit harder, a bit faster, touch my bum, touch my scrotum. 'Can you do that? Can you grab my nipples at the same time?' You know, it's like, 'Oh, okay, okay, where are we? Where are— where am I here with this one?' Yes, exactly.

And, um, one of the things that I think is a big difference between, um, a male body and a female body— and I was talking to my husband about this, um, years ago now, but, um, he was saying that when you— that women are wired— so in his experience, women are wired like you could turn her on by caressing her ankle, and that men tend not to be that way. Now, I don't know— I do know, actually, if it's nature or nurture, right? There's a little bit of, of nurture. There's a little bit of conditioning that, that men are very penis-centric. Right. And, um, but there is, there is something really real and physiological about their sexual response, their arousal, that is, that is penis-centric. Like, Andrew was like, don't, you know, like, don't try to kiss my neck and kiss my chin, do the thing, and, you know, and like say nice things. Just get down there.

Really?

Yeah, he loves all of that, but it's not— but that's more connective, and it's not the— it's not the sexual component of it, it's the emotional component of it. And the emotional component is much less indelibly linked to the sexual component for, for most men.

Interesting, interesting. Yeah, I suppose that's true, although recently I've met a lot of guys who just are super into nipple play, like massively, and they, they can't even get an orgasm without it. It's really—

I've got a few lovers like that.

Yeah, and, and while you're going down, they want you to be tweaking their nipples and twirling them and pinching them and doing all this stuff, and you're like, okay, okay, I gotta remember a lot of things are going on here. And then you stop and they're like, no, no, why'd you stop? Don't stop, don't stop. You're like, oh, okay, okay, okay, sorry, I thought I could just carry on with just the stuff down. So no, no, no, you got to carry on with the nipples up as well. I guess there is— so there is definitely something about the nipples going down to the genitals.

Oh, there is definitely for some people, for some people, for some people. But I have had a couple of lovers for whom that is true. They're like— one of them actually said to me, my left nipple is hardwired to my dick.

Yeah.

And I— and, and, um, you know, I'm a very generous lover, and I— and, and nothing really— it's like, if it's good for you, I'm generally okay with it, you know, whatever, it's fine. Like, I'm here to, to give you pleasure in whatever way you need. But I have to say, and this is not— God, for all my past lovers who are listening and the ones who are into their nipples, I'm just gonna say now that, um, it's not like— I— it's actually a turn-off for me.

Really? Oh, really?

A little bit. Like, it's okay if you want to do that on your own, like, for yourself, but I'm— it's not a— I don't know why it's It's not rational, you know. We have these things that kind of turn us off that are not rational, and that's one of them. I don't like it really.

Oh, see, I don't mind it at all, and I think— and I'm just like, if it makes you feel good and stuff, then I'm, I'm just gonna do it. I just know that, you know, I'm not— I— there's a certain amount of dexterity that goes into trying to pleasure multiple areas at the same time that aren't even in close proximity. Exactly right. So if you're with a tall, really tall guy and your hand's kind of stretched all the way out to his nipple and then you're all the way down at the other end and stuff. But yeah, I mean, I think that's, that's for me is just, yeah, I'm just trying to balance it all in my head. But I think once I, once I got to grips with— I don't know, there's something for me, I'm, uh I get quite into, um, going— giving men oral sex. I just, I don't know, I get really— it's one of the things that like super turns me on, like just makes me really super, super horny. I can practically have an orgasm just almost doing that. I get really— I suppose because the thing about like a penis is it's so responsive. Right? It's— you can feel every single little thing that's going on with it. And so, whereas when you're with women, or just even myself, right, it's like, yeah, anything happening down there? Oh yeah, it's getting engorged, that's good. But you can't feel, you know, my legs can't stop twitching, other stuff that happens. But it's not the same as having what is quite a large area that's so responsive, right?

Right. So how does, um, how does it change with age? What is your experience of giving head to younger men versus older men?

I suppose one of the things is around, um, is around just the erections, just generally erections, right? Is, is I noticed that, um, with older guys, or to be honest, guys that have maybe just watched too much porn— that's the other person— is, is it kind of, you know, the erection will kind of come and go and come and go and come and go. It doesn't have that same kind of like steady quality that a younger person might have. Um, also sometimes it just doesn't get as hard generally. And somebody wrote to me recently about that, and I said, you know, if you are worried about that— he was 66— I said, if you're worried about it, you should go and see your doctor, because sometimes that shit is, is about stuff that can be worrying.

Everybody should go to their doctor. I mean, you should be having regular checkups and include sexual function in— this is just a sidebar here, um, have a yearly checkup and bring up, you know, what's happening and the changes that you see. And that's what they're there for, you know. Um, and if they're not, if they're not willing to have that conversation with you, get another doctor or go to a urologist or a specialist or a gynecologist if you have a vulva. And, and talk about these things.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. And, you know, just going back to the different ways that people like it, the scrotum thing is really interesting, right? Because some guys just love having their scrotum played with.

Yeah, those are my guys.

So can I— I, I was going to ask you something really intimate, which is obviously there's the ones who are like, oh, put it in your mouth. Um, I don't, I don't mind doing that, but—

oh, is that the question? Do I like to?

Yeah.

Oh my God, that's the best thing ever, is that, is to get that one at a time.

Yeah. And, and just when it comes down to, um, or else, you know, blowjobs, I think the, the, the same rule applies as to going down on a woman, like, ask a guy how he likes it. Like, does this feel good, right? I had somebody say to me, God, you're going at it a bit hard. And I thought, oh, am I? Oh, the— I thought that's kind of the way that most people— oh, okay, fine. And he was like, no, I like it really gentle, like really gentle, really slow, really gentle. I thought, oh, okay, okay, technique. Technique change over time?

Well, can we talk about suction? Because that— I had a, I had a similar— when I was young, like young, young, like maybe college young.

Yeah.

Um, I was— I had a, a lover who wanted a lot of suction, like really hard, hard suction. Wow. And it was like, I, I was very inexperienced experienced. And so I thought that was like a good, you know, parlor trick or something, you know. Like, I thought— and I was really good at doing that, like getting the suction. Like, I don't know what it is about the shape of my mouth, but the guy was— or if he was just sort of giving me compliments, you know. But like, wow, that's really good. And then the next guy, I did that, and they were like— they like, you know, I had to peel them off the ceiling. He was like, what on earth are you doing? Like, how? Like, that is the most miserable experience. I'm traumatized. I need to go to a level 1 trauma center right now. And I was like, oh, oh, okay. Like, that's— so that isn't universal. And that's one thing that sometimes if I know that we're leading up to that, like we haven't— I'm dating someone new. Not now, we're married. But yeah, if I was dating someone new, I would say, you know, like, how do you like your blowjobs? You know, I mean, you know, not like an interview question, but like, you know, just in the course of sexy talk as we're leading to the point of the relationship where I think we might have sex, you know.

Do you like—

do you not like suction? You know, do you like to feel a little bit of teeth, as long as it's not, you know, yeah, well, how do you feel about your scrotum so that I can deliver once we get there, you know? Yeah.

And then there's the other aspect, which is the spit.

So, so, okay, tell me about the spit. What are you about to say, Suzanne Noble?

I'll tell you, I'll tell you, I'll tell you a really funny story about the spit, right? So I was with this guy a lot many years ago, uh, who had aspirations to be a porn star. He loved— he just loved being an exhibitionist. He just liked having sex in front of people and all that kind of stuff, or out in the forest or whatever, right? He looked— my friends used to call him Sting because he looked exactly like Sting. Like, exactly like Sting. He was quite a good-looking guy, had a gorgeous cock, and he was slim. And, and yeah, he was Scottish. And, uh, yeah. He was quite yummy, but, uh, we had a bit of a drinking problem together, so that wasn't so good. That wasn't so good. Um, anyway, and we didn't really have anything in common other than sex. And he, um, had gone to be an extra in a porn movie, and the lead character, the lead male character, was not able to perform. So the female director apparently was asking the extras if anybody wanted to step in to basically receive the blowjob from the female lead. Of course, this was like his dream gig, right? So he steps in and she's going at it and the camera's panning up to his face and he's doing his ecstasy face and everything, right? And And then she spit on his cock and he didn't like that. He was not into that. And the camera panned up and he just made this expression of total revulsion, which is not good in a porn movie. That's not what you want.

Oh my goodness.

So I suspect that bit was cut out. But he said to me, I almost lost it. And then he, you know, and then he came and, and you know, all that sort of stuff. Again, very pleased with himself for being able to come with, you know, all these people watching and cameras and all the rest of it. Um, but when he told me about the spitting episode, I just had to laugh because I just was imagining like it's all going great, you know, the film's rolling, the director's all very excited, the girl spits, she thinks it's really hot, and then he just makes this grossed out face. Like, you're disgusting. But of course, there are some people who really get grossed out by that. And then there's the other side who are just like, spit on my dick, spit on my dick. And you're like, oh, okay, I'll— you know, like, it goes back to the, do you like it too wet? You know, like, is it that, or is it the, like, you know, there—

we have this conversation in rever— you know, in, in reverse with people with vulvas who who— and that's a big thing in porn movies, that a guy will like hock a loogie, you know. And like, for me, I'm not into— like, I explored kink a little bit, right? And at one point I went to a professional Dom, which actually might be a great episode to talk about. Yeah. And he, at one point, he was helping me like explore and understand. I mean, It was definitely personally driven, and I had some— I'll talk about this when, when we, when we do an episode on this, but I went there for some personal healing in with my body and as a cancer survivor, and it was a really interesting journey, and he was phenomenal. Um, and, um, and, and, but he was also helping me explore kink like that. As a sexologist, that's a really great thing to have firsthand experience. And so in that exploration, at one point, he said, how do you feel about, um, degradation, humiliation, and, and degrading? And I was like, I don't know. And then he like, he, he, he, well, he kind of shoved his knee like he, he, and he said some really nasty things about me. And I was like, okay, that's it. That is not a turn-on. That's not what I want, you know. Yeah, I like somebody to tell me how fabulous I am. I don't have you know, worship me, don't degrade me.

Yeah.

So the idea that someone would like— of course I like a lot of spit and saliva and to be wet, but the act of spitting on someone carries with it this like humiliation.

Yeah.

Or degradation that I, I think is part of the— it's not about the saliva.

Yeah. Although when you're doing that as a woman to a guy's dick, then, you know, for me it is about the saliva because, because you just sometimes it's just going to help with the lubrication and everything like that. To be honest, I never even think about it when I— if I ever, you know, I do it from time to time. I never even think about it. I just think, oh, I need to get this wetter, just right. Right.

So here's the other thing. When you don't have a camera crew around you and the lights are on and it's like a big thing, a big production when it— when you're in the bedroom and you're dark and you're spit— like, that most guys are not gonna notice, you know, unless you're like— I'm a terrible spitter. Like, I can't— like, if I'm walking along, I can't actually get it. Or in the sink when I have a cold and I'm trying to like spit I can't do it. It— I don't know how people do that, make a nice little encapsulated hunk of spit. Mine just— I know. Yeah, when I'm giving head, often, of course, I do that as well, but it's just— I'm just drooling.

No, exactly. I think that's right. It's more of a drooling thing. That's true. It's not really spitting, it's more drooling. Let's says, let's get the words right, it's not really spitting, it's more drooling. That's true, it is. And sometimes in the act of doing that, that is what— that is kind of what happens. But yeah, so there's the scrotum, we've discussed that. There's obviously the fren— frenulum, right?

Frenulum.

Frenulum, sorry, the frenulum, which is the little piece of skin that's like kind of sort of tucked underneath the head.

Yeah, and it actually— the function of the frenulum is that it attaches the foreskin to the penis, to the shaft of the penis, or the glands of the penis, which is the head.

Yeah, and it can feel really good if you lick on it.

All those nerve endings are right there, and you can feel— they're like— there's like— it's— there's like a ridge. It's a little bumpy there, or wrinkly there. And so you— it's very, very sensitive.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But in a nice way, usually. I've never had anyone tell me it was too sensitive. Have you ever had anyone tell you that area was too sensitive?

Never.

No. So it's like sensitive in a nice way, not like pulling the hood.

Not like—

exactly.

Yeah, yeah.

So, so there's that, and then there's that little bit between your anus and your scrotum.

The taint? Do you know the word taint?

No, I thought it was the perineum. Is it not the perineum?

It is the perineum. In the States, it's often called the taint, which is a non-scientific word for that. So if you ever hear people talking about, you know, that I really like lick my taint, that's—

Oh, I've never heard that.

That's at the perineum.

Interesting. So there you go.

Yeah. And so that area, the skin is sensitive, there are nerve endings there, but also behind that area, if you push in— first of all, the prostate, for those of you who don't know, is often referred to as the male G-spot, um, and it's the prostate gland is largely its main function is to make, um, to make semen and contribute to the production of semen. There are other functions as well, and it, it is adjacent to the bladder, and you can access it most directly through the rectum.

Rectum, right.

So if you— if a man's lying on his back and you put your finger in and you press up, gently, you— and, and eventually probably quite aggressively depending on the tolerance of your partner for intensity, um, and you massage that area, or, or the come hither, as, as I heard you say recently, um, you're going to stimulate the prostate, and it's incredibly pleasurable for the vast majority of male body owners.

Yeah, once, once they overcome the fact that you're sticking your finger up their ass.

Yes. Yeah, I always love when a, when a man is, or, or is like, or a person with a prostate, I should say. There are some trans folks who, um, who don't identify as men and have prostates. Um, I always am am sort of like, um, like, admirous or, or just, you know, supportive of, of a, of a man who says, you can put, you know, can you please put your finger up my ass? Yeah, like, you know, like, can own that, you know.

And the only reason why— sorry, and there is, you know, the thing about all of this is like, you've got all this stuff going on and And getting in a position where you can play around with this is also takes some degree of trial and error, because depending on how big or small your partner is and, you know, where your finger is going up and then you're going down on them and everything, it can be quite— I find I'm like, oh, I gotta move, I gotta move, I've got a cramp in my leg, you know?

Yeah, yeah. Um, so, so there are a few things here that we've touched on that I feel like, okay, what's the takeaway from all of this? How do I organize all of these different things into a fabulous blowjob?

That's a very good question.

So one of the things that, that I think I've heard over and over again from men is that the biggest turn-on with a blowjob is not necessarily the technical skill with which a, a partner attempts this. It's the attitude. That the biggest turn-on is when, when their partner is really excited about and can't— like, I think of it as licking an ice cream cone. Like a big delicious ice cream cone, you know, just showed up in front of you. And even if you don't have a lot of tolerance for— you have an overactive gag reflex, you— we can talk about that in a moment, like how to manage gag reflex, because I have some tips on that. But, um, but the just like, oh wow, this is incredible, I get to play with this amazing penis. Like, that vibe is a huge turn-on. And, you know, look, if they're not going to have an orgasm through what you're doing, which is common— I want to normalize that— really common. Like, don't, don't use— if, if your partner has a penis and you're giving them head and they're not going to have an orgasm, do not let that reflect back your own skill as a lover, period. Seems both— like, let's normalize that that's not the measure of a good lover.

No, completely. Oh, that's right.

So that attitude and enthusiasm is huge. And then from there, do you have a, uh, you know, something that you do, how you move into the actual blowjob sequence?

No, no, not never. Not really. I, um, I think the thing is, as you say, it's about it when they know that you really love doing it. That's one thing. I do think that there is a, you know, something about technique, but mostly technique comes down to asking what they like and, and listening and, and paying attention to what you're feeling and and all of that. And I think as well that, you know, the, the other thing of course about it is that one of the most fun things you can do— well, I think anyway— is like sit, sit on a guy's face while you're going down on him. And, and I think that's really horny and fun. And I think one of the things—

69.

Um, and one of the things I was going to say about age, which I think is one of the things that I've definitely notice with older men these days is that one of the, one of the benefits, I think, of being older is that guys aren't thinking anymore if you stick your finger up my bum or I ask you to do that, that has any meaning regarding my sexuality or anything. It just means I'm just enjoying myself and that feels good. And I think there's a lot of older guys that I've met that are more willing to just now experiment, consider, like, oh, why don't we try that? Why don't we do that? Whereas in my younger days, they would have gone like, oh no, because if you stick your finger near there, that's gonna— that has a whole implication around my sexuality. And you're like, no, it doesn't. It doesn't have anything to do with your sexuality. Yes, with a pleasure part of your body.

Yeah, I think that's really important um, um, has absolutely nothing. Yeah, there are, there are places in your body that feel good, that can be stimulated, that have nothing to do with who you desire. It's really such a myth. So if anybody needs to hear this, if your partner likes to have— if your partner is in a male body and likes to have their body stimulated through their anus and rectum, It means absolutely nothing about your sexual orientation, nothing, right? Some people like a neck massage, some people like a back massage, some people don't like a massage. Like, it, it's all— it doesn't mean anything.

Yeah. And then the other thing I would say is, like, the swallowing thing is, you know, it's a very personal thing, and I think that there is an element of it which is so driven by porn. And, you know, and, and I don't think that anybody should be expected to do that if they don't, if they don't want to do that. And, and, and, and I don't really have a, you know, I don't have a feeling about it one way or another, to be honest. Um, yeah.

I don't have a response. First of all, I, I do, I do have a response. First of all, in porn, the way pornography is shot, there's, there's something called the cum shot, and you really actually can never— like, you have to show the, the penis cumming and the cum coming out of the penis. So actually, the fact is, is in pornography, no one's swallowing because that's stuff that you have to show. And that's, you know, huge. And, and then when I know my mother listens to these, and so she's no prude, believe me, like she's fine. But I get like a little bit shy when I hear— let's think about— so Bobby, put your hands over your ears and go, blah, blah, blah. So when I'm giving head, right, like, I've thought about this many times, and, and I work with a lot of people and I coach— I don't coach as much technique. When people come to me, it's not because they want to know how to give a really good blowjob. It's usually we're working on deep-seated issues and a lot of trauma, and it's not really this. But I have done a decent amount of pleasure-based sex education, and one thing that I am continually curious about is how you would not swallow. Because by the time my partner is on the verge of having an orgasm and coming and ejaculating, they're so far down my throat, I wouldn't know how not to. It shoots right down there. It's almost not even called swallowing. It's like a— it's like, like a fuel injection or something. It's like before I know it, it's in my belly.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, how do you not swallow?

Well, I mean, I think the thing is, it's a kind of, you know, if we're gonna go down those sort of like, what do you do thing, I think sometimes it's a bit of a hand and then a bit of a mouth and then a bit of a hand and then a bit of a mouth and a hand and a mouth and a hand and a mouth and a hand and mouth. And then it depends on what, what, where they, where you are on that trajectory. When you're at that point, right?

That's right.

So you could just be in the hand bit and then it just comes out. But I'm curious because we're reaching our time limit here, and I know that everybody's on the edge of their seats going, what's the gag reflex trick, Zoe?

So sorry, I forgot. I forgot I threw that out there. Okay, so here's the deal with the gag reflex is that you can decondition your gag reflex. You can, you can make— so, but that happens over time. So the first thing that you do is when the penis is erect, you hold it gently, very gently, just hold it and imagine. A lot of the gag reflex, it's two things. It's one a mental thing and one a physical thing. So you have to be— and, and, you know, maybe this is something to do with somebody, a, a partner, a regular partner who you can try. And that, like, I'm gonna make gagging noises, but do you mind if I use your penis to— for a little bit of back of throat training? Yeah, highly that the answer will be no. So Then you hold it, you hold it, and you just relax with this penis in your mouth and just sort of, um, accept, you know, like, this is okay and this isn't gonna— this is not harmful. And you sort of unwind all of those— the sort of mental thing. And more importantly, you're, um, relaxing and increasing the tolerance of your gag reflex to recognize that this is not an intrusion. This is not something that needs to be coughed up, right?

You know, I mean, yeah, carry on. Sorry.

Um, no, I mean, and so the, the, the exercise though, I want to sort of normalize that this can take, you know, it can take a series of like 20, 30, 40 blowjobs, you know, to just sort of get into that um, to get into a space where your, your gag reflex is relaxing over time. Some people it happens very quickly, it's like a, a switch, like, okay, like, I actually can handle this. One of the things that I really like, and, and, you know, we can talk about deep throating another time and what that means, right? But like, I like to have the penis in the back of my throat and then, and then, and then like massage it with my throat muscles.

Bloody hell, that sounds very sophisticated.

You know, really, it's almost like, you know how it—

I can hear the men. The men are already— I'm hearing them already on the other end. They're just like, they are so beyond excited at this point. They don't even know what's going on. They're just like, What the fuck? That sounds unbelievable.

You'd have to get my husband here. He has a perfect size penis to do this with.

Yeah, I used to have it. I used to have a guy who'd love the gagging thing years ago, but you know, he was a dom guy and that was sort of— that was part of that whole dom thing. And yeah, I mean, for me it was like, yeah, because I was doing the whole sub thing, and I was— that was a bit of kind of role play. But I have to admit, it's not like my favorite thing to do. I don't get really excited by it, and I've never had anybody complain that, you know. In fact, just the opposite, you know. As I said, I've been told I'm a superstar, which, uh, when I go to my grave, that's what it'll say on it, probably, that Mom gave a great blowjob. And not— no, that sounds rude. Not, not that. But yeah, no, not that way, obviously. But no, I think, um, yeah, I think what we've demonstrated is that there are many, many different ways to satisfy a man. Very many different ways. And if you want to know how to satisfy your man, just ask.

Very good.

There you go, Zoe. As always, it's been an enlightenment, and hopefully Substack and the rest of humanity won't ban us. And, uh, we'll— yeah, they'll— we'll, we'll be number one in how to get blowjob podcasts. So yeah, lovely to see you again. Have a lovely, lovely day, and we'll see Goodbye.

Thank you.

Bye-bye.