Episode 65: Toys for the Boys | Sex Advice For Seniors

Hello, I'm Suzanne Noble, and I'm Zoe Noble, and you are listening to Sex Advice for Seniors. And today we have a guest on the show, Paul Evans, who is Sam Evans, who you may remember from a few weeks ago when she was talking about the menopause and toys for women and lube and all sorts of things. Paul is Sam's— I hate to say the word other half, so let's just say Paul is Sam's partner and works with Sam on their joint business, which is a sex toy and pleasure shop called Joe Divine. And Paul is with us today because people said in the comments to the episode that we did about women's products 'What about the men? What about the men?' So we thought we'd get Paul on because he knows all about this stuff. So Paul, tell us, tell us, what about the men?

Well, I think it's fair to say that— first of all, hello, and thank you, Suzanne Noble Noble, for taking my podcast virginity. So, but I think it's fair to say that for men, sex toys are much more of a sort of looked down upon. I think women have actually managed to crack the taboo side, which is a word we absolutely hate. But for men, it's still there. It's still seen, I think, sometimes as being a bit of a failure, that if you need a sex toy— and from the point of view as the evil retailer selling these things, the worst thing about men is that we've all got a right hand. And quite frankly, that for a lot of men, it's a great product, quite frankly. Obviously left hands also apply. But yeah, for us, that's— it is for a lot of people, I think it's one of these things which is sometimes looked down upon. And also people just aren't aware of how much better they are these days and all sorts of different toys that you can actually get now. So there's so many more things than there used to be a few years ago. And also they can help, help really well with your sexual health.

So yeah, and I think that's one of the things that we've discovered is that through doing this program is that, of course, when you get older, there's all sorts of things that happen, not just to women, although it has to be said, probably a lot more stuff happens to women than it does to men. Speaking as a woman who's now on day 4 of her antibiotics, which is very, very boring because I thought I was— I thought I was finished after day 3, but they called me up yesterday and said, oh, we made a mistake. You got another 4 days to go. So, oh joy, oh joy. But, but we know that men have problems with erectile dysfunction. We know that they have issues around their prostate. We know that sometimes they feel insecure around their erections. And what was it that you called it, Zoe, once? Around their erections.

I don't remember.

I think it was something like those pesky erections. Isn't that what you said? Pessky erections.

Yes, I think you've actually sort of like— I've got a list here. Sam and I sat down and had a little chat before we did this and pretty much cover the little bits and pieces that we personally have got down on here. You've got down erectile dysfunction, premature ejaculation, which I think sometimes people would actually associate more with younger people, but So if you've been out of a sexual relationship for a long time, then performance problems for both men and women are obviously a big thing. Decreased sexual sensation affects both men and women. I think that that also would depend as well on, putting it bluntly, whether somebody has a foreskin and things like that. As people get older, and just in general as you get older, you lose sensation. Get problems like delayed ejaculation, again, which might come from that same thing. So if you can't actually have an orgasm, We've also got things like loss of libido. You know, men go through the male menopause, the manopause, or whatever you want to call it. But basically that sort of thing. And yes, undoubtedly that's the one. Yeah, I couldn't remember the name of it. That's the one. And yeah, we've got things like, as you say, body image shrinkage. You know, that's something for both men and women. Basically, your genitals can start to shrink if you actually don't look after them. So there's all those sorts of things you've really— for both men and women, you have got to keep— it's a full-time job looking after your body. I mean, just everything. I mean, you know, for me, I look after my sexual health pretty well, I hope. But, you know, I'm also the person who doesn't do the stretches. You know, for the past week I haven't been doing my exercise and things like that, and now I'm aching like anything. And I know that the next thing I'm going to have to do this evening after this Is I going to be lying on the floor and putting my legs in stupid positions because I'm making— again, if you're doing— if you're not looking after your sexual health, you're going to be having to— you are going to get more and more problems. And men are much worse, I think, actually, at looking after their sexual health than women because you get— quite frankly, women are cursed, quite frankly, with sexual health issues of all sorts. And The women in my life are constantly having to go through the issues that you've been talking about, Suzanne Noble, but men as well sort of just assume very often that all these things will just keep on going, and it's a myth, quite frankly. We get the same sort of issues, or different set of issues, but we have plenty of issues as well as women. So yeah, absolutely, we just need to look after it as well. I mean, you're talking about some of the things I think we could probably just start with actually that good old one of erectile dysfunction. So I think a lot of people, including men and many women, just assume that all male sexual erectile dysfunction has been cured by Viagra and Cialis and everything else like that. That is absolutely untrue. Basically, Viagra, Cialis, and other similar drugs, they basically all they do is they basically stop the hormones that basically cause your erection to go away from acting as well. So basically, you have to actually be able to get that erection in the first place. You have to be able to— you actually have to be aroused. All those sorts of things. You actually have to remember that all it's actually doing is actually increasing the blood flow and stopping you from losing that erection. But if you don't get it in the first place, it's got nothing to stop from going. So one of our big problems for, for men, as in with women, is actually loss of libido. And for both men and women, the, the thing is that if you don't have sex, if you're not having sexual activity, then basically your libido goes down and you have to stay on top of it. You have to actually keep on going. And one of the most important— and also we can have things like overusage of porn and things like that as well. People can actually, you know, porn can be great for people to actually get aroused, but if they're having to use it to get aroused, then they're then not actually aroused by their partner, be they male or female, it doesn't really make any difference. But if you're having to use porn to get aroused, that can also affect body confidence and everything else. So I think one of the most important things is actually to, first of all, actually get comfortable with your own body. Actually, just— and with that sort of thing, you can start to use Yeah, I don't want to talk too much about toys in this whole sort of area, but you can use toys, you know, just simply anything which vibrates, pulsates. I'm just gonna— I know our listeners can't hear it, but we have things like the, the Superb Hot Octopus Pulse and things like that.

So he's showing us this thing.

Yeah, it's like a sleeve, it's like a sleeve, but basically has a little Pulsation patent, the bottom underneath, and that basically sits underneath the head of the penis. So basically it sits there and that basically taps the head of the penis. Now, that was actually initially designed to actually help, I believe, or at least the huge prototype, I believe, is actually was— it was followed from— was actually designed to help American servicemen who'd actually lost erectile function after having spinal injuries. And this actually can be very, very stimulating because it's tapping the underside of the penis, and that is a very, very sensitive place. But any— anything which actually has pulsations, vibrations, and things like that can actually really just help the blood flow start stimulating. We have another similar product here which has— it's called the Fun Factory Manta, and that is something which basically just you use up and down the shaft of the penis And this is basically very similar to a vibrator which is designed for a female body, apart from it has like these little manta ray wings, which actually go around the whole penis and be used to masturbate penis, used on the end of it, things like that. Okay, you can also use many vibrators which are actually designed for women. I mean, funnily enough, some of the toys that I've actually enjoyed most have actually been designed for women. And you can just use them. Along the shaft of the penis, because anything which vibrates can actually just increase that blood flow. And it, you know, any of these sorts of things, if it feels nice, then great. You're not going to hurt yourself with it, so just give it a go. If your partner's got a sex toy somewhere, you know, ask them if you can use it or use it together, you know, those sorts of things. So it is undoubtedly something which can really help. The other things as well that you can actually just use are the really simple things like cock rings and things like that. So I'll just show you here some— basically these are just silicone rings, and this is a great new one that we've just taken on from a company called Juju. And basically they're just really simple little rings, and basically they're actually all identical size. There's 3 of them in a, in a set, they're all identical size. But the great thing about them is they actually vary in stretchiness. So that's like the the most stretchy one. Then I think the blue is the next one. No, the blue is actually the least stretchy one.

And are those still the ones you put around your cock and balls?

These are basically versatile. They can be used for just around the penis, just around the balls, or around both. So you can use them for all of those sorts of things, basically depending on how big you are, how much pressure you want to have. So anything like that, and this really simple little ring, which I think We've just popped this on the site, Steph. I've forgotten how much we put it up for, about £6, £7. But this simple little ring, just put that around the penis, or just put it around the penis and around testicles, and then basically just that little thing can maybe— say your erection is 90%. The problem with erections, if they're only 90%, that sometimes just isn't enough. Popping that on, a little £5 little toy, that can make the difference from going from 90 to 100 and actually having an enjoyable sex life. Yeah, you do have to be careful. You've got to— again, your sexual health is tied in with your actual, uh, the rest of your body. If you're using penis rings, if you've got a heart condition, you need to be careful. All those sorts of things. So all that you— those are things that you do need to be aware of because your overall, um, health and things like, um, uh, your heart condition, diabetes, all these conditions can actually cause erectile dysfunction, which is why if you're getting things like erectile dysfunction, you must go and speak to your doctor first because they are— they may well want to actually get you checked out to actually make sure there's not actually a problem with your heart or diabetes or something else like that. And of course, your partner— this is obviously designed for female pleasure, but you—

oh, I just wish we were on video here.

Suzanne Noble. Absolutely. A nice little vibrating ring here. Yeah, design, yeah, little rabbit ears, which basically you can use against the clitoris as well at the same time.

Oh, we like that.

It's a lovely little toy.

It looks like little bunny ears for a penis.

Yeah, they are. They're very, very flexible. You can actually just use them as a simple sort of handheld vibrator. It's a great little toy. But that just sort of like is a great little toy from Fun Factory called the Nos. Yeah, there are so many little things you can do which can actually enhance your sexual pleasure, your partner's sexual pleasure, just with fairly small amounts of money. Like, yeah, I said a silicone cock ring is only going to cost you sort of £5, £6, £7. Yeah, there are so many things you can get out there, and that can again, that can then play into making you feel better about your body image. So the fact that you've got a bigger, better erection can actually make you feel better about yourself. Um, all those sorts of things. But overall, sexual health, uh, for both men and women, but for, you know, for men, certainly for men as well, you have to be, you have to realize that your own health, your, your physical health plays directly into your sexual health. Um, you know, things like, um, you know, obviously if you're feeling— sex is a fairly physical activity. And basically, if you're feeling overweight and things like that, or if you've got heart problems, all those sorts of things can all play into your sexual— into sexual dysfunction. So the healthier you can keep yourself, the better sex life you can have. But also, if you're actually having a decent sex life, I would not say to somebody, oh, you're too overweight to have sex, or something stupid like that. If you're actually enjoying your sex life, then that actually then will feed back into your physical health. As well. It's great for the heart. It's actually a, for most people, it's a relatively low impact activity, shall we say. And yeah, it is something which then actually just feeds into your general sense of well-being and everything else.

Can I ask you a question, Paul?

Of course.

Can I ask a question? Since, yeah, we like to ask questions. Just saying, you podcast virgin, leave a bit of space for questions. My question is, I've sometimes overused vibrators and I've had to, I've had to stop, you know, kind of take breaks because I've found that they've been desensitizing my clitoris through overstimulation. Can the same thing happen with the penis with these? Because they're all using similar motors, right? These, these things, and they are quite powerful.

Yeah, I think with the sorts of toys that we've got here, like the Pulse, I think that will be quite hard to do. And obviously, the— I think the— for most men, the penis is probably less sensitive than the clitoris is for women. It tends to basically be more exposed, should we say. But I understand what you're saying. I think the— there are two— if you're using something very powerful like a body wand, then that is where you're more likely to end up with desensitization. Also, if you're using sort of like the good quality vibrators like we sell with like deep, deep vibrations, then you can often get a lot of pleasure from the lower vibration settings so that they actually can be very, very throbby rather than just sheer power.

Interesting. Do you have any questions, Zoe?

Yeah, I have. I'm curious about, um, the type— the range of types of toys. So I think a lot of people, at least in the States, um, feel like toys for men involve anal and the prostate. And I feel like there's a little bit of a stigma here because people miss— tend to misunderstand that You know, they think that anal play is for men who are gay. You know, there's, there's that whole stigma. And so I do a lot in my sort of evangelizing healthy sex and relationship with that part of ourselves. I do, I try to do a lot of destigmatizing that and talk about how prostate pleasure is for anyone who has a prostate, not just someone who is making choices to partner with someone of the same sex.

Do you find that there—

you've been showing us and talking about a lot of sort of penis toys that are related to the penis and the testicles, but how about that prostate?

Well, yeah, absolutely. I mean, first of all, to say anal play is pretty much— I would say 99.999% of the year, everybody has obviously has an anus. So Basically, anal play is actually for anyone. There are a lot of women who enjoy anal play. There are a lot of men who do as well.

The—

not everybody does as well. That's actually one of those things. For some people, prostate stimulation is not something they enjoy, or they find it unpleasant or whatever. So it is something which— and absolutely, it does not mean— it does not absolutely in any way indicate your sexuality. Is actually just another way of experiencing sexual pleasure. So that is absolutely the case. A prostate orgasm can be incredibly intense for people, and it can actually be one of those things that people can— and you have to remember that you have to start small, get bigger, etc., etc. I actually don't— we've got— I've got a very small number here. I mean, this is— I'm just showing here a very small set of sort of like a small vibrating anal bead sort of toy here. Um, these sorts of toys are a lot of fun. They can— there's, um, not only is there the prostate, but obviously everybody has nerve endings around the anus and things like that. People get a lot of excitement and a lot of pleasure from those, from that stimulation. But it isn't for everyone, although everyone can try it. There's— if you see what I mean, is not everyone enjoys it, but everyone can, everyone can have a go. Bullet for—

and what's the point? I've never used one of— I mean, I've used stuff up my bum before, but I've never used anything where the vibrator stuff is out, is on the outside. It looks like it's on two points on the outside. Is that correct?

Yeah, well, basically this is just sort of one of our— the cheaper end of things. So basically there's a simple battery-operated bullet there, but basically the vibrations just travel directly up it as well. But also The perineum obviously is also a very sensitive area for both men and women, so that you can also get stimulation from there. So there are actually a lot of anal toys that actually not only are internal, but the actual vibrations— there's often a lot of anal toys that actually have vibration on this part, and they can actually— they can stimulate— well, basically they will actually extend and actually go along the perineum as well. So you can— that's actually another pleasure point for usually, I think, associated with male pleasure, but men and women do get pleasure from there. I would say probably— yeah, sorry.

The perineum is, is for people who don't know that, that word is also in men referred to as the taint. And it's the space between the back of the scrotum and the anus, and in women between the vaginal opening and the, and the anus.

Absolutely. Yeah. But for a lot of people, that is obviously, that is a very sensitive area as well. So I would actually say for, I mean, I would, we do tend to have far more, I would say our products are probably more female-focused just because of the customer bases that we have. The only thing I would say is, yeah, I think basically we we get a lot of purchases of anal products for both men and women. It really is something that basically anyone can enjoy. And we, we really do get them for men, women, everybody.

So do you find— speaking about older men, what I, what I've noticed about older men is perhaps they're less inclined to think about anal play and prostate play and everything as being for gay men because they've kind of given up on all of those hangups. And so they're more interested in exploring those areas. And also because, as you acknowledge, keeping your prostate healthy, especially in later life, is really super important. And, you know, I suspect that some of these toys can actually, you know, keep that prostate healthy. And so there— it actually is a positive to start thinking about using those sorts of things.

Absolutely, yeah. I mean, some— I know the manufacturers of a lot of these toys will actually certainly push the idea of prostate health and using these toys. Yeah, it's not something I feel particularly qualified to actually talk about from the point of view of actually knowing enough around that, that specific area, but the prostate massage is often cited by a lot of people as actually something which can reduce the, the risk of prostate cancer. Just by basically actually expelling, but by emptying the prostate. A lot of people say that you can just keep, keep it smaller. So, but from my point of view, I, I, I, I, I, I have been told that a lot by the manufacturers who sell a lot of these toys. I wouldn't like to say whether that's true or not.

And, and we've seen a lot in movies and stuff, the only toy that ever comes up in movies is like the flashlight. I notice you have not brought out the flashlight.

No, I must admit it's a pure oversight actually at the moment, but the flashlight is— I'm assuming that most people know what that is. It's a large sleeve, which is the pun on the flashlight. It looks like one of the great big, usually sort of US flashlights that you get over in the States, and basically contains an insert in there which is usually modeled on a vagina, and they also have ones which basically are modeled on the, the anus, and they also have loads of them which actually are modeled specifically on certain porn stars and things like that. Really? Okay. I think for a lot of people there, they, uh, we certainly sell those, um, for a lot of people they can actually be quite off-putting because it's sort of like, and also I think for some people actually sort of increases their, their sense of shame around it because they actually feel that they're actually sort of penetrating an actual vagina when obviously it's just a piece of plastic. We do sell a lot of toys though, which are, should we say, are just basically more just a straight, sort of like just a straight sleeve, you know, so that they don't look like a vagina, but they obviously have all sorts of textures inside and things like that. So We sell those sorts of things as well. We have the little Tenga eggs, which are a great little toy. Oh, I love those. Yeah, they're lovely little toys.

Other people that I've known have liked them.

Yeah, they're nice little toys. They just sit in a little plastic egg, you take them out and they're just a sleeve which is very stretchy, pulls all the way down the penis. And you know, they're great little toys as well. I don't know how I managed to actually come here without even bringing the flashlight, but that's a That's the way of it, the way it is. So, but yeah, for us, we— I would say that we sell—

What percentage of your customer base, Paul, would you say—

Probably the ones that we sell the most of, the things like the Pulsars and the Mantas. Sorry?

What percentage of people that shop with Joe Divine are men, would you say?

I honestly don't know. I mean, the thing is that it's not so much how many men, it's basically how many— we sell vastly more female toys than we do male toys, but that's largely just because of the demographic that we sort of like got over the years, especially since all the work that we've done around sort of like helping menopausal women and things like that over the past few years. We do have a very large number of female purchasers, but a lot of those women actually then buy something for their partners. You know, that's actually one of the great things we see. Sometimes people will buy something for themselves, buy something for their partner. Often if they're actually going through sexual health problems themselves, they will buy something for their partner while, you know, to help them while they're actually going through the sexual health issues they're going through, which is a great way of them both, you know, they can enjoy toys together. But there are so many, you know, there are, I think the great, despite the things that women have to go through, you have so, there I think female anatomy lends itself to so many more different and more interesting and exciting toys. And it's only been in recent years that, you know, basically people have actually worked out how to actually get some fun toys for men, quite frankly. And I do think the, the sleeve has actually just been that thing which has always just been there. And I don't think we actually even really had any vibrators for men when we actually first started this business. Probably took 5 or 6 years before we actually started to see things like the Pulse and the Fun Factory Manta. Everything else was basically either sleeves or anal toys. So that was, that was really all we had.

Hmm. So it makes sense. That's a good explanation for why male toys are so often associated with anal play. Yeah, we're just, we're sort of newly venturing into vibration, penis vibrations and yeah, yeah, vibrations.

Absolutely. And as I say, is some of the best toys I have tried have actually been the ones actually aimed at women, because if there's a good strong motor in there, then basically you can probably use this on the penis. Yeah. And And if it doesn't work, then at least you've had fun trying, quite frankly.

So yeah, and you know, I mean, like, I'm, I'm a big fan of vibrators during sex because I just find they just enhance my pleasure. And obviously I'm older, so I need a little bit of extra help. But I noticed that when— because I just use like tiny little bullets and I'm not into big things— and I noticed that when I bring those out, men absolutely go wild. Because of course they're feeling all the vibrations, right?

Oh, right.

Yeah.

Like when I'm doing my stuff and I'm— and they're inside me, they're feeling all those vibrations and they get really turned on by that because I suspect it feels really good, you know. Absolutely. They're getting their vibrator hit indirectly through me.

Absolutely. I mean, That is also where good quality vibrators actually have the low frequency vibration. So things like this, the Fun Factory Nos I mentioned before. There's another ring called the Fun Factory Mio, which I think we have one here. This is another one. This is, sorry, not Fun Factory Mio, this is the Jejoo Mio, another one by Jejoo. They're absolutely gorgeous toys. They have really low throbbing vibrations on them, these ones. And again, this is a lovely stretchy ring as well. So that can basically go around anybody. And these are lovely, lovely toys. And that is the sort of toy, if a man wants to actually feel a bit of vibration while they're playing as well, these, the deep throbby ones, are the ones to go for. They're actually the sort of thing that really do make a nice difference on them.

So they're quite expensive, those ones, aren't they?

That one, I think they're very good value. Well, I mean, That is the same price as if you're looking at something like the good quality things like the Je Joue Mimi Soft. That's going to be— this is around about the same price as that same toy. I mean, you could potentially just use that as a vibrator on the clitoris as well. So those toys last for years and years and years. So, you know, it's— invest in a good toy. And you've got— and basically something, it'll be a friend for a very long time, let's say that.

And also another thing that we didn't talk about, which I suspect is, is similar to what Sam was discussing with women's toys, is make sure that the stuff that you buy is good quality, because there's a lot of cheap shit out there. And although you're not sticking it in— well, you are with your prostate, you know. Yeah, you don't want to be sticking stuff into, into your body that's made out of like cheap plastic, that stuff that flakes off, that's really disgusting, that rubbery stuff that's horrible. You know, it needs to be like good quality silicone and all of that.

It goes— you have to remember though, for both the, um, from the anus and also from the vagina, it goes straight into the bloodstream. So basically, it's a really absorbent part of your body. Both of these things are— it goes straight into your bloodstream. So, uh, Joe Devine's pretty unusual in the sense that we are about the only company that has actually ever, um, we've only ever sold good quality products. So it really is, it really, really is important, and it's a pity that more people don't actually take notice of, of, um, how bad a lot of the cheap products are out there, and it's very sad. And especially if you go into most sex shops in the UK and things like that, then you will find that virtually all the stuff they have is, is of very low quality. Um, and if something is clear, if it smells, then don't use it in your body. So I can absolutely tell you, if it's a clear thing, so like jelly dildos, things like that, if you open up the packet and there's a smell to it don't use it. It's as simple as that. That the chemicals in that will leach into your body, and they will also— they also are difficult to clean. Um, you obviously, for the— as Sam would have told you, obviously for women they can give you things like, um, uh, bacterial vaginosis, thrush, all those sorts of things. Um, for men, you— the— you will— you can still get skin irritation, and you can also get skin irritation from, uh, unexpected sources as well. I'm sure that Sam spent— I know that Sam spent an awful lot of time talking about lubes, and one of the things to be aware of, those— some of those things actually also apply to men. Obviously, we don't have that same vaginal microbiome that we have to maintain, but we do still have skin that can get very sensitive. And yeah, recently I spoke to a friend of mine, and he actually asked me why he was getting irritation on the penis from the point of view of he was using condoms. And interestingly, he's actually a doctor, so he actually knew that he didn't have a latex allergy as such because he was using them every day. And then basically we pretty much worked out that it was actually, it was actually the lube on the condoms he was using. And most of the brand name condoms out there, they actually use probably pretty much the same lubes as they do obviously sell in the bottles. And most of those contain absolutely god-awful ingredients. So yeah, you really do have to be careful. You know, we always recommend to people, if you, uh, with condoms, use something with silicone lubes because they're much less likely to be reactive to you. So, um, unfortunately there are no— I can't think of any, uh, water-based— any condom that has a water-based lube in it which I would, um, basically have anywhere anywhere near my body. So the silicone-coated ones are fine, but anything with water-based lube, I'd be very, very dubious of. And they never put the ingredients, of course, on the outside, on the package. There's never any ingredients for lubes.

Yeah, we, uh, people with vulvas say if you wouldn't put it in your mouth, don't put it in on your vulva or in your vagina.

Absolutely. I would argue that the vulva is a lot more sensitive than the mouth to having all sorts of things go wrong with it after it. So, but yeah, I say obviously if you're putting it on your penis, then it might be going inside a vulva. You don't want to upset your partner, but also for yourself, you could get irritation yourself. If you think that you've actually got an allergy, it may be that the allergy is actually, or an irritation could actually caused by the lube, not by the latex condom. Everyone assumes it's the latex, and a lot of the time it's not.

Very, very interesting, Paul. Is there anything that we've left out?

The only thing I just sort of like would just actually want to say is actually just, actually just a really— I know this is sort of like an issue you're talking about, people being embarrassed about the products they may use and the things like that, but the one thing that I would actually say that can actually make a huge change, I think, for penis health, and is also probably the most taboo. And I would actually say, as I know it's been mocked in— oh, I've forgotten his name now— the, um, oh, the, the James Bond ones, whatever his name was. But the, uh, uh, the penis pump, it's an absolute product— it's a product which basically helps rejuvenate penile health. And it is something which is a penis pump. I'm just saying, yeah, penis pump. Yeah.

Oh yeah, we haven't talked about those. Absolutely.

So, um, this to me is actually one of the things that for older men I personally think is, um, a really valuable product. So, uh, first of all, get something which uses water as a medium for being pumped out rather than, uh, the— rather than air. The reason for that is that air, when you pump out air, it actually creates hot spots around the penis. So basically, you're actually creating a vacuum, and that can actually cause capillary bursts and things like that. If you're doing with water, then water is actually non-compressible. You can't compress water, so it can't actually create different pressure points around the penis. So it's also, it's warmer, it helps increase the blood flow. Now, the problem with pumps is they're basically only associated with getting a bigger penis. In most people's minds, that's what they're actually only associated with. But that's— first of all, there's nothing particularly wrong with that. But also, the other thing is that that's actually not the case. They actually just help promote penile health, because what they do is they force blood into the penis. They help you maintain— and basically, the thing is, we get older The big problem is that basically the, the capillaries aren't getting actually filled with blood. And we actually have, men and women have two capillary endpoints. Basically, you've got, got them in your hands, you got them in your feet, and men have a third one, which is actually in their penis. And that's actually where the capillaries basically end. It's the end of the road. And we get, I've been, it's been explained to me that the reason why we get some arthritis in our hands and our feet, one of the sort of whereas things is to build up, is partly because we have endpoints in our hands. And lucky old me there, I've got, you know, one of my knuckles there has got a nice bit of arthritis going on. Now the great thing with, with these is they basically help keep the blood flowing through the penis. And interesting, they were really— they also, they are just about obtainable. I think if you have an incredibly good GP, etc., etc., you can get some the excellent VaxAid products on prescription, but those products actually come even with like a special, very special sorts of types of cock ring, which actually you can actually use while using the product. The ones that we sell, the Bathmates, they are basically what we sell them as is, yes, if you want to get a big penis, then great, but also they're a great way of actually just exercising the penis. Now, as you get older, it actually really does help. So it really helps you actually get a— it helps maintain that decent erection. And you will actually find, certainly when you first start using one, you'll actually find probably that you get a much better one than you've had for a while. But then over a period of time, it just keeps everything going, quite frankly. You know, if you're—

Oh my God, I never knew this. Did you know this, Zoe?

No, I did not know this.

I mean, I will be honest with you, when I first saw them, or I was obviously aware of them in the business because we've always cautiously entered new markets. And when I first saw them at one trade show many, many years ago, I sort of thought, what a load of old rubbish. And then I started talking to the marketing manager from there and he explained to me all this sort of information. And then we sort of like went, oh, that makes sense. And then, oh, you've also got a medical product side of it as well. And, you know, obviously I've tried the products. I know that they actually work from the point of view of actually just making things better, keeping things healthy.

Wow.

And let's face it, as we— well, you know, at any time in our life, you can go through periods where you're not having much sex or something else like that.

Yeah.

Yeah. And if you're— if you're— if you haven't got a partner, if your partner's unwell or whatever, and you just want to keep things going, You know, it's a great way of doing it. As often we would say to women, use a vibrator, use a dildo, whatever, to basically sort of like make sure you don't start to atrophy or things start to shrink or whatever. The same way for men, use a penis pump. It's— yes, it's— I know it's sort of like one of these things that people sort of think is an odd thing to do, but it is something that can really transform your penile health.

I've always felt they were quite horny, actually, but I never knew anybody. Also over deep. But that's just me.

They have been mocked in Austin Powers. I believe there's one of the Austin Powers films, I think there's a scene about people using penis pumps in the gym or something else like that. I've never actually seen it myself, but they're certainly something which is sort of like very looked down upon. And there's a load of really horrible, nasty, cheap ones out there. But they are something which really do work for people to actually just get and keep a better erection.

And I think we'll end there.

Yeah.

Can we end there?

Absolutely.

Because it's 40 minutes. And I know time flies when you're a podcast virgin, Paul.

Absolutely. I'm sorry for talking too much.

Now, between you and Sam, man, I'm surprised, like, you know, I'd love to be in your household all the time.

We're usually telling each other to shut up and stop talking about it. So I don't want to hear about it anymore. Yeah, it really is.

Anyway, it's been lovely to talk to you.

Yes.

And that is, yeah. And guys, if you want to check out any of this stuff, go to Joe Devine. I will put the links at the bottom of the summary. And they are always on the phone to answer any questions that you might have. And so don't be afraid to call up and ask about, you know, water-filled penis pumps. Why not? What else have you got to do today, tomorrow, right? I think it sounds like fun. That's all from me.

And from me.

Thank you so much, Paul.

Goodbye. Goodbye.