Episode 69: When I went to see a Dom

Hello, I'm Suzanne Noble, and I'm Zoe Noble, and you're listening to Sex Advice for Seniors, or anybody else who just likes the sound of our voice. Zoe, which I understand is quite a lot of people from all the sexy messages that I get, and other things. Zoe, what are we talking about today?

We're going to talk about the time I spent in the dungeon with my Domme. Ooh.

Zoe wasn't ready to talk about this a few weeks ago, but clearly something has happened to her.

Well, it's more what hasn't happened. I'm, I, um, a few weeks ago, my— right at the time that we were going to talk about this stuff, my mother fell, had an accident and fell and broke her— fractured one of her vertebra. And so it's been an all-consuming— many of our listeners, I bet, can relate to this. It's been a really all-consuming second full-time job just working the system to get her care. Paid for, you know, and to get her in the right places, the right facilities to progress her healing and, and then also tend to her heart and her mental state during all of this. So it's kind of, I haven't been 100% to say the least.

Yeah, and I think, you know, one of the things that we should discuss in the future, absolutely 100%, is that how to support our partners and our intimate lives with our partners when we are struggling with dealing with our parents and their health and mobility issues. Because I know that it's really difficult to be in relationships when one or the other of you is going through some serious challenges with you know, with a family member and they, and you don't always feel that sexy, right? I mean, it's not the first thing on your mind and you want to support that person, but maybe you have your own sexual needs that are not being met. And you think to yourself, how long is this going to go on for? Because I am really feeling left out of this. Understandably, but we can talk about that another time because I do think that's a really, really important topic that a lot of older people are definitely dealing with. And I know that firsthand through so many of my friends.

I, Suzanne Noble, everything that you're saying, yes, yes, yes. And in fact, my husband and I have been on a little journey of our own, having a lot of sort of ruptures and me feeling unsupported and him feeling like You know, he's already— I already juggle so many responsibilities and it takes a toll on our sex life because if he doesn't feel like his needs are being met and his needs are largely like quality time and, you know, really moments throughout the day where I'm fully present to him and he feels like a priority, not all the time. He's extremely not needy. But by the same token, he, he admittedly doesn't really know how to be not needy and also get his needs met, advocate for his own needs. So I was walking the dogs yesterday thinking, my poor husband, you know, it's like one more thing that has bumped him down on the priority list out of necessity. But the good news is, is that we are, uh, every day we're taking more steps towards my mom's stability. Facility. We're going to move her into a facility that's great for her, and then that opens up a whole lot more space for me. And mentally, I'm already heading in that direction. And so I feel like I have the capacity to tell the story of my Domme.

Go for it, Zoe. I want to hear it.

Okay, so back a long time ago, like long meaning maybe 15 years, 10 years, I probably 10 years, I was doing a, as part of my training as a sexologist, I did a sort of weekend workshop, it was maybe 3 days intensive days of kind of exposure to a lot of different lifestyles where it comes to sex. And we had, for instance, we had a few trans folks come in and talk about transitioning and all of how that affects sex life. And, and one of the things that, that the, the creators, the therapists that created this program, they brought in people who are immersed in the kink world. So a couple of the— it was like a panel. So a couple of the people were lifestyle. They lived like a lifestyle, kink lifestyle. And that means like there's no money exchanging, like that's how they run their relationship and they are together. And there are a lot of sort of rules around that and guidelines. And then there was— there were a few professionals and the The, there was this guy named Sir Rucifer, like Lucifer, but with an R, Sir Rucifer. And you can all go look him up on Instagram. He's amazing. Um, he was, he's super tall. I would guess I'd put him at like 6'3", maybe 6'4".

Yeah.

Um, just stunning and very, um, He just is great. He wears a leather apron. He did. He wasn't wearing a leather apron during this panel, but I learned, I got very familiar with that leather apron in the dungeon. So he told a story and I really like, I know, I mean, I've known for decades that like, I like to be dominated in bed, right? Like I'm not, I like when someone else takes charge and just sort of tells me what to do or push, consensually, you know.

Yes.

And so, but I never, I didn't know much about the kink world. I didn't know much about BDSM. And I was really sort of a newbie and very curious. And so I listened to him tell the stories about some of the things that he has done. And they're really his stories to tell. But, but he spoke of a client that he worked with, and he worked with her therapist to overcome trauma and sexual violence against her. And really the way he described these sessions and working with the therapist, working with her and the therapist to create situations where she could undo, have a, have the reverse outcome of her real life previous trauma. Outcome. And so taking her power back, you know, he also spoke of a friend of his who was, I think, had been, was a survivor. I'm like hesitant, like trigger warning. She was a survivor of sexual assault. And she was also a Dom, but she had him, she gave him the keys to the apartment and they staged a you know, an assault, what would be the beginning of an assault. And he basically told her, like, tell me to stop, tell me no.

Yeah.

And she would do it. And he, and he'd let go. Like, so she got her power back. There were a lot of things that he described in using domination, submission, that dynamic, the power dynamic. In a healing way. And I just thought, wow, first of all, this man is stunning and I'm totally attracted to him. And he's, um, he's speaking with such sensitivity, you know, and awareness and really using these, these power dynamics, not just for sexual pleasure. So I booked an appointment with him. And I started to see him and have sessions with him. And I learned so much. And so one of the things that I used him for was a to get a great education in kink, and, and how to work with, with that, with a sort of power dynamics or impact play or pain as sensation. Which can then be transmuted to pleasure. And, and really specifically, I have, if I haven't spoken about it here yet, I'm a cancer survivor. I had, I have a huge medical history, but there was a, I had Hodgkin's lymphoma when I was at University of Pennsylvania. And, um, it was diagnosed, it's a teaching hospital. My dorm where I lived was literally a block from the hospital. So I chose to stay in school while I was being treated.

Wow.

And so it was— there's a lot of physical trauma. You know, I have scars on my body. I have— I'm somebody who tends towards powering through and finding gratitude and appreciation in adversity, you know. The flip side of that is that I often don't process properly trauma. And so I've been carrying around a lot of physical trauma, like the aftermath of like not just sort of scars and appearance and my body, but also a certain level of dissociation from my body. Because when I was being treated, you learn, and by the way, I was childhood asthmatic. I was hospitalized twice when I was 3 for asthmatic pneumonia and put in an oxygen tent. I've had all kinds. I've had my gallbladder out. I've had all these surgeries, 21 surgeries in my life.

Oh my God.

Yeah. And when you have a medical history like that, you learn as a, as a coping mechanism to dissociate from your body. And fortunately, that never affected my sex life, my sex life and my sexuality and the way I felt in my body when I had sex. I was very— I could access that level of pleasure. But I do find that I struggle and it's something that's always sort of been on my— some people have bucket lists of like going to Fiji. My bucket list is to address the trauma that I've been carrying around. And so it's been on my bucket list to find find a way to process this physical trauma. And when I heard him tell the stories, I thought, aha, healing through sex, through sexual play and sensation. That speaks to me. Yeah. So any questions?

Yeah, so I'm curious to know, I mean, I, I had a Domme and It was awesome. And he said that people don't always want to have actual intercourse, that a lot of it was around impact and pain. And as you said, that transference of pain into pleasure. Did you have intercourse with him?

No, there was no— no. And that was part of the rules. We were in a dungeon. That is like many doms sort of work in this. It was an old converted house in Los Angeles. I don't think it's open anymore. I think during the pandemic they shut that all down. So he's not working out of there now, and he lives quite a distance from me. I don't see him anymore, although we are in touch.

Yeah.

So he's working somewhere else, I'm sure. But that was one of the rules that there is no sexual play. I had orgasms, but it was through the— and I, and I'm— we'll talk about this, I'm sure, but I would— I have had a couple of orgasms through the impact play and the sensation that, that, that, that gave me. But he did not and was not allowed to, and it was very, very strict.

And was that true with him and all his clients or just with you?

It's true. It's true in the facility that he was working. And I don't know that that facility, you can see I've been searching for, for field nursing facilities for my mom in the, in the dungeon that he was working. That was, that was the rule. It's not, in other words, it's not prostitution. It's not about pleasure. And it's not, yeah, there are boundaries. I don't know what he does in it when he has sessions outside of that context. He might have all different rules for different places he works.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I mean, I can, you know, I, I'm in my relationship that I was in with, with somebody. I don't really like pain very much, so I— sorry, I would— he was, but he was so good that he would just take me up through the levels of, the levels of, of my endorphins or whatever it was, really. Yeah, my endorphins. Until eventually he could whack me quite hard with like a flogger or something. And then at that point it was really pleasurable. I can't say that I've ever come that way, but I did understand at that point what getting all of those pleasure, you know, chemicals going through my body, what that was all about. I just did— I just don't like when somebody whacks me really hard and I'm not, and I'm not really ready for that. But I do enjoy it when somebody takes me up through those levels, and I think it's really sexy. But for me, because I've only done it with people that I've been— that— no, that's not entirely true, actually. That's not true. I'm lying. I have, I have actually. That's not true. I have been in dungeons at clubs where people have done all manner of things, but just not any sexual stuff So yeah, so they've done all of that impact stuff but not, um, not had sex with me. I'm curious to know, like, on— because this obviously I've seen through a lot of the clubs that I've been to where they have their own dungeons. I've seen some stuff that I find pretty frightening. I mean, for instance, needles. I just don't do needles. Did you do needles or—

No, no, no. And I'm not even sure that needles are permitted. Piercing the skin and drawing blood is permitted in the place that I went.

I mean, they use special needles and they kind of weave them through the skin. And they— I mean, I've seen people suspended on hooks, which is—

No, no, no.

Freaks me right out. And electrostimulation. How about that?

No, no, no, I can tell you that we played with all kinds of impact play. Yeah, and there were a lot of— and sensation play, like I call it the pizza cutter, but it's like, it's, I think it's called the Wartenberg wheel.

It's like a little, it's like a spinning wheel with pointy things on it, right?

Yes, exactly. So there's, there's That toy, and I love impact play, and, and I love— I mean, but like you, like, it's a build. Like, you actually, you have to sort of like, there's a methodology and a technique to heightening the intensity gradually over time so that your window of tolerance grows, you know. Yeah.

And for impact play, just for those who don't know, impact play could be anything from spanking to more serious stuff like caning, flogging, spinning wheel stuff. Some of them, I don't know what else is there.

The spinning wheel, the, the Wartenberg wheel, that's actually more sensation play than impact. I think I'm not sure that that distinction, I'm not sure is if it's the way I'm thinking about it or no, I agree.

Impact is like whack. Yeah.

Yeah. Um, and usually there's like, there's a lot of caressing in between. So you relax, you relax the body, you get comfortable, and then you, you know, part of the, what I learned is that when I stop, when I, when I don't use the word pain, um, because it has so much association, when I, when I use the word intensity. Yeah, I'm able to feel the breadth of that sensation of the impact and it doesn't necessarily feel— I have a very high pain tolerance. Like I have, you guys can't see this who are listening, but I have intricate tattoos on my hands and even on my fingers on one hand. Um, and other parts I have a, I have a Sanskrit mantra down my spine. Um, from the nape of my neck all the way to my sacrum. And so, like, I love that tattoo pain. Like, I love it. Like, tattoos can't go on long enough for me. It's really about the process. People are like, well, I just tolerate the process so that I can end up with the art. I really love the process. So this is, you know, working in the dungeon was not working, but working with So Lucifer in the dungeon with that level of intensity and sensation really turned me on.

And did, did he do anything with, with the guy that I was with? There was a lot that was psychological about it. So for me, I needed quite a lot of— there was a lot of storytelling that went on around it and not a lot of— we talked, and my friend listened to our episode about dirty talk, and I have to say there really wasn't much of that. It was all just kind of the buildup was quite something. But in the actual session, if you like, it was fairly quiet with maybe just a few words, which I found the end— it was for me all about the anticipation. And I think that's a lot of it is around, you know, something is coming and it's around when. And how and what if, right?

Yeah. Yes, absolutely. Sir Christopher used to say, like, the best part of his job is like the mindfuck, you know?

Yeah.

Yeah, it was really wonderful. And he was also like, I was very curious and wanted to learn that and experience all different things. So he was, it was an interesting thing because I went in there and he, the first thing that he did was he, we had a ritual that we did when I arrived and I went in and it partly drew on Tantra, my background in Tantra. He would stand and I would climb up onto him like He called me his spider monkey. I climb up and he would like sit and we would sort of face each other and hug in a very typical yab yum. You know, we can talk about tantra on another episode, but, and we take some deep breaths together. And for me, it set me in, it set my nervous system in a particularly receptive, safe place.

Yeah.

So he would, um, it was quiet. There was no dirty talk at all. Um, and there was also like a, he would have positions, like there were, there was positions A, B, C, um, or position 1, 2, 3. I can't remember which it was. Yes. And so he would be telling me what to do. Like he would be giving me, telling me what to do. Come here, come here. Do this. And, and I would have to say, like, thank you, sir. You know, there was more, there was a lot of that, like, I had to behave myself. And I was rebellious and cheeky. And, you know, like, I gave him a hard time, which in turn made my life more intense. But it was fun. And I went in, you know, he would always ask me in the beginning of the sessions, how do you want to feel? That was the question. How do you want to feel? I made the mistake of saying vulnerable, more vulnerable than I've ever been. And boy, I couldn't handle it. I couldn't handle the vulnerability. And for me, that looks like fully naked, strung up in, in the, you know, in the harness and exposed. You know, he turned on when I said that, he turned on all the lights and I was like, Okay, I can't do this.

Well, and I think that's important also for people to understand, is that ultimately the sub is in control. But the person that's being— the person that is— that this is being done to is ultimately the person in control, because there's a lot of, frankly, dangerous people out there doing stuff where they're, you know, their stop doesn't mean stop, this doesn't mean this. You know, you have your safe words, you have to stick with them. Like, there's no— you're not pretending when you say you have safe words. Like, you agree on them and you adhere to them. And similarly, if you're in a situation where you're just really uncomfortable or something's going on that you just feel really unhappy about, then you have the ability and the capacity and the control at that point to say no, no more. And I think that's what good, you know, what separates a proper Domme in my experience from the many people out there who frankly just want to take advantage of women. And I know that probably another question that people would have if they want to explore this lifestyle is like, well, where do you meet somebody who's a professional like the guy that you went to see or the guy that I was seeing? You know, I mean, I met mine at a club. We had some fun there. I trusted him after that experience. And so when he said, do you want to meet up outside? I was like, yeah, that was fun. I really want to do that again. I know there's people on FetLife, which is a website for kink, who are not all kosher, frankly. And I think you do have to be careful when you're exploring this sort of alternative lifestyle. That you don't run into somebody who actually isn't looking after your best interest, isn't there to heal you, to help you overcome trauma or whatever other reason you've gone to see somebody, but is actually there for their own selfish pleasure.

Well, yes. And what, what really, I mean, because I met Sir Christopher in a, in a training right, where we were actually talking about the, you know, as opposed to a sex club where I might have encountered him and been, you know, having an experience with him in that context. Yeah, one of the things that, that I just, you know, me being somewhat naive at the time that I took that training in terms of the nuances of a Dom/sub relationship was On the surface, it looks like the Domme is in charge, that it's all about the Domme. And, and actually what, what I really learned is that the Domme is working— a good Domme and a professional Domme is working for the sub. They're there in service of the sub, and the sub gets to not only consent throughout periodically, but communicate what they want. Right. So it, when some of the other talk that happened in the dungeon was an elaborate system of communicating with each other to keep everybody safe, to keep me safe, to keep him safe because he's, he's at risk. His vulnerability is that he's got to take care of me. In this. And he did a beautiful job. And that meant, like, you know, on a scale of 1 to 10, you know, where are you? What's your, what's your pain level? What's your intensity level? Where are you? Where are you? Okay, I would say, like, I want— I'm at a 5. And where do you want to be? I want to be at a 7. I want to be at an 8. Bring me up to a— bring me up to a an 8, you know, or I'm at a 5 today. I really want to back it down to a 2, you know, really much more interested today. And, you know, when I was still getting a period, those would be times where impact play, I was much less interested because everything was a little bit on edge and sensitive, you know. So sometimes it would be like, I actually want to be at a 2 today and I'd like to go in the cage, you know, he had a little cage that I would crawl into. So I loved that. I loved that aspect of like, you know, the number system. Yes, of course, the safe word, but also the red, yellow, and green. You know, green would mean increase the intensity. Yellow would be keep doing what you're doing, but keep it at this level. And red would be stop.

Let's discuss.

He also would ask me, like, you know, in exploring all of this stuff, he would ask me, um, what do you want to play with today? What are you up for? Like, do you want toys? Do you want impact? Do you want, you know, and, and, and I said to him at one point, I don't know, just do whatever you want. And he looked at me and he said, I'm a sadist. You don't want to say that to me. Like, he's training me to be a good sub, you know. Um, and there was a time where we got very, very, um, I got very emotional, like, and it, it was emotions, like, it was more of a nervous system chart. Here's the trauma coming up to be healed, right? And I was really, uh, had a lot of tears and he asked if he could do some Reiki on me. So here he is, Suzanne Noble, in the middle and I'm tied up on a, on a bed, my favorite thing, like I'm shackled to the bed.

Yeah.

And he's doing Reiki on me, you know.

Amazing.

Yeah. Really funny.

We like this guy. We like this guy. That, well, that's the other thing is, is that I suspect, you know, you're in this professional relationship, right? I'm assuming you're paying this guy.

Yes. Right.

Okay.

Yeah.

So, so it's like a form of therapy. You're going on a frequent basis and he's delivering all of this like insane pleasure. Did you not at any point just like totally like fall for him? And he's like super handsome as well. Like, how did you stop yourself from having those feelings for him? Because I think I would have been— yeah, I definitely would have been thinking, I'm really liking this guy, maybe we can make this something a little bit more than this, you know.

Well, I was so in love with this relationship, like this, that part of what was such a turn-on for me was the fact that we weren't in relationship.

Yeah.

And as a matter of fact, it's worth mentioning, okay, when I met him, I was very early in, in my dating relationship with with who is the man who's now my husband.

Oh, right.

And I didn't know this until we had been dating for, I don't know if I have the timing right. We had been dating for about 6 months when I did this training. Oh, I see. And I told him, he knew I was doing this training. It was so much fun. It was in a historical hotel in Culver City, which is right next to, um, what used to be the 20th Century Fox.

A lot.

Amazing. Where they filmed, um, The Wizard of Oz. And the Clover Hotel is the hotel where, uh, I mean, there isn't much history in Los Angeles. Like, this is old historic Hollywood, right? And we're going all the way back to like the '40s.

Yeah, yeah.

Um, yeah, it's not like Europe over here. And so this was the hotel where all the munchkins stayed, and it was crazy, and they were, they were big partiers. And so it was like all this debauchery that happened in this historic hotel. At any rate, my husband, I shared with him, you know, what we were doing. And then I said, we have a field trip. It was like the Saturday night of the, we have a field trip to the, to the sex club, to the kink club. And I said to him, do you want to come? And he said, I, He said, I'm going to let you go and explore this on your own. I'm very curious without me there, what you will think. And it turns out it's only after I went to that club that he, that my, the guy I was dating who I'm married to now revealed to me that he plays, that he's a Domme.

Oh, right.

Oh my goodness. That is so cool. So we did, I mean, he and I play quite a bit.

Um, yeah, yeah.

And we've worked out our own sort of thing, you know, and it's lovely and it's great. So I got to have some of those experiences combined with actual sex.

Amazing.

One of the things that Lucifer—

favorite, frankly. But yeah, I just get frustrated otherwise. I'm like, I don't know where this is leading to.

Well, yeah, you have to kind of separate it out, you know. Seperate out that play from having somebody, and I really love being the only one that is getting off, you know, I like that, but I'm also got a bit of an exhibitionist sort of fantasy quality turn-on. One of the things that I did discover with Lucifer, one time I went in and he said, How do you feel about humiliation? And I said, I have— or degradation. And I was like, I have no idea. I have no idea. And so he called me, I don't remember what words, but like, you know, some form of filthy whore and like, need me in the crotch. And I was like, okay, I'm not into that. It was just the opposite. I wanted to smack him, slap him across the face.

No, I know. It's like when people do— at least the thing was he asked you, right? He asked you and you're like, oh, I don't know, I'll give it a shot. And then you think, no, not really my thing. Whereas like when you're with somebody and you haven't discussed any of the boundaries and all of this, and then they suddenly pull that out of their, you know, their box of tricks and you just think, oh no. Yeah, it's like, no, please stop. It's awful.

Yeah, yeah, it's just, it's the opposite of a turn-on for me. So, and I was there to learn and explore, you know, like, yeah, it sounds like you, you did, and you had a great time.

And the great thing about doing that is that, and I think every, you know, my feeling about all of this kind of stuff is that you can, if, you know, if you have the finances permitting and if you can find somebody who's legit then, you know, there's no age at which this isn't something that you can just check out and decide, what, do I enjoy this? Do I not enjoy this? Yeah, this is fun. This isn't fun. I could take a bit of this. And I do think that's one of the advantages of being older is just to be able to still be able to play like that. And And have fun. And you did clearly. And, and it informs your work that you do. So, you know, there was some practical and academic benefit to it as well as, of course, all of that pleasure. Zoe, it's been, it's been wonderful once again chatting with you and learning about this because I've been curious to hear this story and I knew that you weren't, weren't up for it. And we were going to discuss something that was far less interesting than this. So we can save that for another time.

I have a quick tip before we sign off.

Oh yeah.

About finding somebody. I forgot to mention, I was so captivated with you, I lost all reason. The one of the places in Los Angeles that I think is a really good resource, and I'm sure, I'm certain there are equivalents in every city. There's a, like, a store for kink supplies. Oh yeah, The Stockroom here, The Stockroom. And they have, prior to the pandemic, I don't, I haven't kept up at all, but prior to the pandemic, they had a lot of workshops and seminars and classes. Like, they are actually a benevolent force, you know, in the kink landscape. For educating and providing experiences. And so they have a lot of people. If you are interested and go to a store that's above board, you know, like, yeah, yeah, for sure. There are some pretty scary places too to get supplies, but there are a lot of up, up and up on the, on the up and up. Is that the term? Yeah. So that could be a good resource as well, you know.

Well, I know that in London there used to be a shop called Shh, and now it's It's just online, but they, I still think they hold workshops. I think Babeland in New York holds workshops as well.

Yeah.

Um, which is another toy company. And yeah, I think that's a good shout to look up toy companies and see if they do workshops.

Yeah.

Yeah. I'm gonna, I'm gonna go now and explore the wonders of Gran Canaria, which is where I've moved to now. Wonderful. Bye for me.

And bye for me.