Episode 71: A Question of Care

Hello, I'm Suzanne Noble, and I'm Zoe Noble, and you are listening to Sex Advice for Seniors. And this week we are going to be talking about a circumstance that Zoe is right in the middle of experiencing, and something that I'm sure will be incredibly familiar to to so many people as they approach later life themselves, which is what happens to intimacy when you suddenly become an informal caregiver to one or both of your parents or are just dealing with having to, you know, figure out what to do when your parents are no longer able to live independently. And that's what you're going through right now, Zoe.

I'm laughing and crying. I've lost my mind over here. Um, yeah. So, um, about 5 weeks ago, I believe my mom, who's in her 90s, fell and broke her neck, essentially. Um, she fractured her C2. Vertebrae, vertebrae. And she has been on a sort of a journey of figuring out what her needs are, where she goes, how we fulfill those needs, how it, you know, I'm in the United States, how we pay for those needs to the tune of like, you know, almost $400 a day. It's been, it's been really all-consuming. And it's really, it's interesting because I've kind of in my mind organized You know, in a state of constant overwhelm. I mean, nonstop, relentless overwhelm at what is being required of me. Yeah, I mean, there's her medical needs first and foremost. There's her emotional and mental, like psychological needs in keeping her feeling like, A, she's got some agency here. As she is unable to move. And it's a non-mobile fracture, by the way. I want to just— it's worth mentioning that she's not paralyzed, thank God. Yeah. And it will heal. She's in one of those cervical collars for 12 weeks. And hopefully it will come off at that time. But boy, oh boy, you know, she's 92. So she's in bed. And, and then also like the mountains and mountains mountains of paperwork and figuring out how this is all going to get paid for. So, you know, it's so interesting because my husband is wonderful and supportive. And but he's a typical man in that he is, you know, he's sort of like a problem solver. And he sort of walks through challenges in a very strategic and logical way. And this has brought me to my knees. Emotionally, like really on many levels. And so another piece of this, that's, you know, he, when we talk about love languages, do you know love languages, Suzanne Noble?

Uh, not totally, no.

Oh, is that not the biggest craze in the pop psychology world in the UK?

Well, we haven't talked about it yet, so, you know, it's a topic for further discussion, but, you know, Please enlighten me, Zoe.

Yes, well, we'll talk about love languages really in depth because it's a, it's an interesting tool and not the be-all end-all, but it definitely is a helpful sort of little tool for navigating how to meet your partner's needs. And so the way that my husband feels loved and receives love is through mostly through quality time. He loves to spend quality time with me and he, he feels he tends towards— I'm fiercely independent. It is the hardest thing for me to deliver quality time to him. And I know how important it is. And so here I am, you know, in complete overwhelm, which I tend towards anyway. And now I've got a second full-time job. Taking care of my mother. So it's— what we're talking about here is how to tend to our primary relationship, our, you know, our loved one, our intimacy, and take care of each other, receive and give love and support in the middle of this kind of a crisis when time and energy is at a premium. Right.

Yeah. And I think what's really— I mean, a friend of mine recently split up with her girlfriend because she was going through some big challenges in her life and felt— and the relationship was in its early days, relatively early days— and she felt that she needed to address those challenges without having to deal with a newish partner as well. And I think that's quite typical if you're in a newish relationship, is just to take, to step back, recognizing that taking care of your partner and being in the middle of a very difficult circumstance is really, takes a huge amount of energy. And if you're not that committed, sometimes you just think, you know what, this is just way too difficult. I'm just going to walk away from this for a while and get my shit sorted out over here and then come back, right? But for many people, and you know, that would, that's kind of my circumstances. I don't have any, I don't have a primary partner. So I don't have anybody that has to be, that I have to look after in that way. But of course, when you're in a committed long-term relationship, like you can't really do that, you know, you can't really do that.

You can't just sort of put a pause or walk away, right? Like if I could just, you know, put my husband on ice for a while, that would be fine. On top of which, let me just mention that we are recording this episode right in the, you know, the week leading up to Christmas. So there's a lot going on, you know, services available are not necessarily so readily available this in these couple weeks here. And there's an influx of like, you know, of family and obligations and responsibilities and all, you know, supposedly joyful. This year, it's challenging to locate joy on a regular basis, but it's there. Um, I, what I have discovered, Suzanne, is that, and I talk about this a lot with my clients, you know, it's always so interesting when the thing that you're, that you're coaching or that you're, um, inviting your clients to consider is really coming and becoming present for yourself, you know?

Yeah.

I, it's essential. It's been essential for me. To shift my perspective from what I need to do to take care of my husband in all of this to what I need to do to take care of and nurture the relationship.

Yeah.

So it's not just that I need to carve out time to spend with him to make him feel better. It's, I need to allocate some resources here to— and by resources, I don't just mean money, I mean time, energy. Um, I, I need to allocate resources to spending some quality time with him so that we just— for A, for my own mental health, to step away from the madness of what I'm dealing with, and, um, and and climb into a bubble with him and feel the vibe, feel the connection, feel the love, feel the support, allow him to, to love me and to have that, to receive that. And my receiving that from him, he, he has articulated for years, is a gift to him. You know, he has there, you know, there have been times when he has said to me, like, when are you going to just let me love you? Like, all of you. And I'm like, this is one of those moments, you know. So, so there is that. And, you know, with, with, you know, when I'm talking to couples in my practice, I'm, you know, it's not, it's not my technique. This is a common couples counseling relational technique where you have each individual and their needs and their perspective, but, you know, they're not just facing each other. You have the couple turn towards a third entity that is the relationship. And so when you stop thinking about like, my husband's just another person in my life now that I need to take care of along with all these other people, my mom in my case.

Yeah.

We, we, it's not really that. I'm, I'm creating time for the solace of partnership and relationship in that way, and that satisfies him.

Yeah, and looking at your relationship as a third entity is, I think, just generally a useful way of taking apart each of your individual needs and putting instead your energy into this third thing, the relationship, so that you both come at that with the perspective of what does this relationship look like for both of us. And then it becomes that rather than I need this and you need that and I need this and you need that. You know, it's, yeah, relationship need to, to exist, to keep going. And I think that's just useful in general. I do think it is very, very, very, very difficult though, and I know that, and I think partly it's because of the, the lack of support that's available for our age group to be able to navigate their parents' inevitable demise in ways that make it easy for us. And I know that the States is really hard with the medical system and with the cost of care and everything. It's just not set up to actually let us grow old with grace. It's just set up to kind of let us grow old and kind of put, park us somewhere until eventually we don't exist anymore. And there's no humanity in that really. And that's what makes it so difficult is because we want our parents to experience end of life. You know, we've just, we've just held ourselves our Advantages of Age Awards. And one of the categories, which I know people found enlightening and challenging, was death advocate, which are people that are just out there like death doulas, death cafes, coffin clubs, like all these people. We had a group of people that actually sit by people's bedsides and sing songs, and they did one of those songs at our awards, and it was incredibly moving. Um, but these are organizations that are trying to help get us out, you know, like lead us gracefully at the end of our lives into wherever we end up going. And nowadays, that's just really, you know, that's quite revolutionary when it's everybody I know is going, you know, in some way or another is going through in a small or large way what you are currently going through or has gone through it or will go through it. Because it just seems to take over your life. And I think making time for intimacy is fucking difficult.

It is. And dealing with— sorry, we're going to have to edit out that giant pause. That's okay. Okay. Here we go. Dealing with the, you know, the enormous amount of like work involved to create a situation in which, like in my case, and I'm sure in many cases, like first and foremost, I want my mom to be physically comfortable. I want her to be in a place where her physical needs are met and and her mental and emotional needs, you know, then can be tended to. If you're constantly in physical crisis, you know, then there's really no room for anything else. I mean, on the hierarchy of needs. But I think that there are so many things I'm like having trouble picking, you know, particular words out of this vat of thoughts and feelings and emotions. And that's part of the condition of dealing with taking care of our parents as they age and sort of move towards end-of-life experience. I did this with my father and it was much simpler logistically. He went from hospital to a beautiful hospice house where we just, you know, there were 5 bedrooms and there were people in various stages of dying. And I spent his last 5 weeks there with him and it was amazing and inspired me to become a certified death doula. So that piece of it, yeah, that piece of it I've got, you know, but it is true that in order to sort of bring someone like a sort of a conscious death and to have them to create a space where they can leave their body, leave this earth with dignity. And some modicum of, um, sort of presence is not always possible, um, or possible in degrees, you know. And, and what's, what's really needed is, is to be able to have a system that allows for that. Um, I think, you know, as far as intimacy and, and sex, I mean, we are here talking about sex advice seniors. Um, you know, when are they going to get onto this sex bit? Yeah, I know, right? Um, well, so, you know, this is true in any kind of, you know, stressful circumstances that it's not sexy. You know, I don't come home from the assisted living facility visiting my mom and come in and have— and feel inspired to have sex, you know. And I also think that it's okay not to have sex all the time, that you don't have to feel like there's urgency in that area, you know. There are other ways of connecting deeply and caring for each other, you know.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, what my former partner of mine was— I do know a bit about love languages, but I was just pretending there. But his thing was always about doing something nice for me, which tended to be because he really liked fixing things. He would— I would come home and he would tell me that he'd like fix some— he'd just seen something that needed fixing in my flat and he'd fix things. And I know that— and I, and I knew that that was his way of showing that he loved me, right? Was just like doing these things without being asked. And I do think there's a bit of that that can go on in, in that whole relationship space is like, how can I take some of the burden off of her? Right? Like, let's go out for dinner tonight. Or, you know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna treat you to a movie or just sit down and let me rub your shoulders. Right? I mean, just stuff that just says, let's park this for the next hour. And just do something that makes you not have to do more. So for me, like, anything that doesn't involve me doing more is good, right? When, when somebody wants to do something nice for me, just even if it's fixing something around my home, that's like a handyman I didn't have to go and get and spend money on. Or, you know, let's go out for dinner, or you look really knackered, you know, I'm just going to give you a back rub or whatever. Like you said, it doesn't— sex isn't— sex is just one part of one's relationship in, in a committed relationship, you know, such as yours. And I think that's sort of the thing, is like, what are those nice things that he knows that he can do for you that are just going to give you a bit of a break, right?

And that actually— I mean, let's just say it, if you're supporting someone who is supporting their their elderly parent in navigating health challenges, that lands big for everybody, you know? Yeah. And that's exactly like I— this whole episode here, as we're talking, I've, I've been thinking about the other night, Sunday night, I came home from visiting my mom and a long day and catching up with clients and paperwork and billing, you know, I mean, don't get me started. I walk in and my husband says to me, my darling Andrew says to me, I want to take you out to dinner tonight. So I'm going to— if you can, you be ready at 6 o'clock and I'll whisk you away. And I thought, yes, sir, I can. I texted my mom and I said, Andrew's taking me to dinner. I'm going to put my phone down. I'm not going to respond to texts. If you should need me, actually dial the phone. Dial. Like, when's the last time you actually dialed a phone? We still say that, you know, call me, ring the phone, and I will, I will, I will know to, to answer, to look, to check if the phone is actually ringing and not just a text alert. And we did that and we had what turned out to be like 2 hours of And I'm— and I, I allowed that. I gave myself permission. Yeah, somewhat reluctantly. I mean, there have been plenty, plenty of moments in these last 5 weeks where I was— I couldn't do that. But I was able on Sunday to give myself permission to be present to my husband and to have conversations that didn't involve my mother. Like we drew a boundary. Like I said, we climbed into a bubble.

Yeah.

And man, oh man, my bowl of ossobuco and, and mascarpone mashed potatoes was— that was like all the pleasure I needed.

Well, and I think you bring up another really important point that I notice, especially with women who are usually cast in this role of doing all the stuff, even if they've got siblings, if the siblings are male, there, there does mainly— and there's mainly an expectation that it's the woman that's going to be doing all of this stuff around their parents' care. And the guys are going to fly in every once in a while and just say, hey, how it's going, you know, can I give you a day off, you know, when you've been like on your knees for 4 months. But One of the things I think that we also should acknowledge is that as women, we often play the martyr card. So, so we do the no, no, I'll be okay. I'm going to be okay because I'm such a martyr. I can do everything. And I think there is a point as well in that long-term relationship of going, look, I'm not a martyr. I don't want to be a martyr. And I would really appreciate if you could just help with this, you know? And I know a lot of people struggle with asking for help just generally, but in these sorts of circumstances, I think for the sake of relationships as well, it's best to acknowledge when you just can't take any more on your plate and you just say, I can't do this. So I need you to look at this piece of paper and figure out what the fuck I'm supposed to be putting in those particular boxes, 'cause I don't know what that means.

Yeah. I want to tell you something else I did in case this is helpful to anybody out there in any circumstances. I have a 27-year-old daughter and I have a 17-year-old son. My daughter is married and lives in, you know, another state. I had a conversation with each of them and they know what I'm going through and they're close with my mom and, you know, and, and I, and I said, this is going to be a lean Christmas. It's not going to be our— I'm never over the top with Christmas anyway. And, but I, I, I let them know and I said, and, and my son has a birthday in January, my daughter in March. And I said, um, we're going to all look back on this year, Christmas 2023, as one that was challenge and with limited, you know, bandwidth for celebrating and gifts and time spent together and dinners. And I said, I don't have it in me. And I want to, you know, maybe focus, direct our energy towards your birthdays this year and make the most of just being grateful that we are together. And of course they were, you know, They were very enthusiastic and it feels good for them to be able to support me in that way. My son said to me, Mom, I'm 17. I don't need presents under a tree. And I was like, all right, maybe I did something right.

I know. Well, my kids even said to me something about no Christmas presents this year or something. And I was like, really? Because my son's going to— one's going to Mexico and the other one's in New York. My parents have gone on a cruise, so we're sort of all abdicating Christmas. My mother did Christmas dinner a few weeks ago, and we all turned up and had turkey in between Thanksgiving, just after Thanksgiving. So yeah, we've done that. We've done that too. So yeah, I think, you know, again, it's just about acknowledging what you're capable of doing and what you're not capable of doing, and that intimacy comes in many shapes and forms. And it doesn't always have to be penetrative, right? Yes. Penetrate our brains with your exciting support.

Yes, exactly.

Crazy. But yeah, I mean, it is really difficult though. But, you know, and it, and it is something also about, you know, let's look into the future. It's something that is older people ourselves. I often think You know, it does occur to me, somebody asked me last on the weekend, like, do you want a big, you know, a big relationship again? Do you want all of that? And I was like, well, at my age, that means taking on looking after somebody, right?

Yeah.

That means like I'm going to have to do the shit that you're doing with your mother and eventually you're going to have to do that with your husband. Right. And I'm going to do it with my parents. And at the moment, I'm not gonna do it for somebody else. Yeah, and that's one less person that I have to do this for. And because it's really like you, as you said yourself before we came on, you're like, this is my full-time job. Yeah, and that's, that's what it is. It's like it becomes your full-time job, and then you've got your relationship, which is your other person in your relationship, which is that third thing, and then you got your job that, that you earn money from. That's like something else. And then you got your kids and you're just like, no wonder nobody feels fucking sexy. It's just, it's too much stuff.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah. I, I have a simple practice that takes one minute and this is a good way to sort of wrap this up because it is good for every couple. Every couple. And if you're not in a relationship, if you're not a couple, you can do it with anybody. You can do it with your kids. You can do it with a friend. You can do it— Suzanne, we can do it if we were in the same room.

Okay. It is—

I call it a 30 and 30. It takes 1 minute to do, and it's so simple. 30 seconds of uninterrupted eye contact followed by a 30-second hug.

Oh, nice.

And you make the hug immersive by focusing on your 5 senses. If you're doing it, it's a daily practice for, for couples that are working with me. And if you're doing it every day, you can pick one sense. Like, today I'm going to focus on what I hear, or I'm going to focus on what I feel. Or, um, or, you know, if it's a one-off, if you're doing it with the barista in Starbucks, if you can like convince them to do this, then you can just, you know, like go through all the senses. And, and it's, there's a lot of like neuroscience going on there. You know, we regulate our nervous systems by looking to, you know, when we're infants, we look to our caregivers' faces to regulate our nervous systems and feel safe. It's an opportunity to like meet each other. You're not talking during this eye gazing. Right. It's silent. You might feel awkward, you might giggle, you might squirm, but just hang with it. It gets easier and easier. And you're married to this person or you're, or you're partnered with this person.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, you should be able to look at them, look at each other. So set an alarm on your phone and for 30 seconds when it goes off, dismiss the alarm and then you don't have to time the hug. The hug is about 30 seconds to take 3 deep, slow breaths together. And I promise it is maybe not a permanent substitute for sex, but it is certainly a moment of, of meeting each other, of seeing each other, of being seen, and of that tactical, um, uh, touch, you know, physical intimacy that that we all crave.

I think that's a fabulous way to end this episode. And Zoe, I wish you a Merry Christmas, and in that low-key way that it's going to be this year. And hopefully you'll get some time to just chill without all of this, and hopefully your mother will be able to rest in a way that doesn't hurt her. Hurt her body. So I'll leave it at that. Goodbye.