Episode 96: Never too Old to Learn about Sex

Hi, I'm Suzanne Noble, and you're listening to Sex Advice for Seniors. Today I am with a sex educator and a sex therapist coming all the way from Seattle, Washington. Thanks to the beauty of the internet, we're able to connect. I Austin Cressap. So lovely to have you here. You can't see her, but I'll probably, I'll probably stick a picture in the summary because you're quite a young person to be talking with us old people about our sex lives. How did, how did that come about, Austin?

Yeah, I am 35, and depending on who I'm with, that's either old or young, and when it comes to this topic, I understand that I am definitely on the younger end. And how I started talking about elderly intimacy and senior sex. When I started going through the program to become a sex therapist, my grandma started calling me with questions.

Oh, wow.

And she would call me maybe once a week, and the questions progressively got more descriptive. What there was, you know, can you explain the gender spectrum and what goes where in a threesome? And do men use vibrators? And I was so willing to have these conversations with her. And it really made me realize how little education and how misinformed she was throughout her whole life. And that's such a disservice. I feel like everyone, no matter what age, should be able to feel pleasure and have intimacy. And so that just kind of catered me into creating a space for people to come and ask questions and learn and maybe get rid of some bad information and, and take home some new tips and tools.

And has— was your grandmother still married to your grandfather at this time?

Yes, they were high school sweethearts. They just celebrated. Oh, gosh. Their 67th anniversary, I think.

Oh wow, my parents just celebrated their 65th this past weekend. Yeah, yeah, I've lost— at this point you just lose track, right? I'm like, my, my relationships barely last 65 days. Like, how do you do that?

But yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I think, you know, I don't know how healthy or unhealthy, or you're— are they still— they're still around, right?

Yeah, they're still around. They still have their own version of intimacy and slowly learning the different ways they can engage with that and try to get both of their needs met, and then exploring what they can do on their own to also get those needs met.

Wow. And have that— is that a revelation for them at this age? Is this— are you the sort of mediator in this, in this situation?

Yes, my grandpa doesn't really share too much or ask many questions, but my grandma sure has. And I— she's not going to listen to this, so I think it'd be okay if I share, but— or maybe she will. I bought her her first toy. And so that was a brand new experience for her. And she doesn't get into too much detail, but expresses appreciation.

And can I ask, because, you know, like, I remember finding my mother's vibrator back when I was a kid, right? It was like this hard hard plastic bullet-shaped thing that screwed at the bottom. It had like 2 big fat chunky batteries in it, and it was really basic, right? I don't— if I— I'm curious to know, what did you buy your grandma as her first toy?

I got her a Hitachi wand.

Did you, buddy? How? That's hardcore.

The mini one, just the mini one.

Oh, the mini one. Yeah, one of those. I still think it's pretty hardcore though. I have to say.

Yes, but we talked about, you know, trying over different layers of fabric and trying out, you know, around areas to see what feels good. But I didn't want anything with too many bells or whistles or something, you know, that has multiple components. I thought, start off pretty easy.

Yeah, yeah. I'm still— I test loads of toys, and I have to say, and my friend is like, oh, you should really like create your own toy. And I keep thinking, But I'm so basic because no matter— I, you know, I love lots of different toys, but honestly, most of them have got so many settings. I mean, the other day I was just trying to turn this one on that I got and I couldn't even figure out how to turn it on.

Yep.

Oh my God, I'm gonna have to— because I think all the instructions were on the internet. I thought, I'm gonna have to do this. So I can totally appreciate getting your grandma something that's just got like one button. Because my favorite one is just like this little bullet that was like $10. And yeah, and it's like, it's honestly, it just does what it needs to do. It's got like 3 speeds.

Yep. And once you set your setting and your rhythm you like, you don't mess with the other ones.

Yeah, it's just fine. But anyway, yeah. So that's, that's fascinating. My mother and I have also like tipped around the edges of this topic. And my mother actually said to me the other day, she's like, I think it would shock you if I told you what we were up to.

Oh, love that!

Oh, cool! God, now I'm curious, like, what does that mean? Yeah, but anyway, you know, we talk, you know, we joke about being older and introducing much older people to, to new things like toys and vibrators and stuff. But one of the things that I noticed in reading about you was that You were— we were, we were, and we were discussing earlier about, you know, what happens when you get to an age where you start experiencing pain, or you start, or illness starts to, you know, you start to become chronically ill, you may need to take drugs, you know, how does that impact on sex? And I know that you've got some thoughts on that.

Yeah, absolutely. My foundation for all the work I do is about communication. And that is going to be communicating with our partners about what we're experiencing, and then communicating with our doctors. And I'm not quite sure how it is over there. But over here, unfortunately, the bedside manner is not great. And doctors don't get a lot of education around sex, especially for sex for older folks. And so when people are going in for an illness or an injury or surgery, they're not having conversations about how will this impact my intimacy. How will this impact my sexual functioning? Or they're getting put on medication to help, help reduce one symptom or one, you know, pain point and not finding out how this will impact sex drive.

Yeah.

And so I really encourage people to have conversations of, okay, after we do symptom management, how do you want to feel? What do you still want to be able to do? And how can we navigate that? This includes like after surgery, like hip surgery or knee surgery. What do I need to do if I want to be intimate again? And this is where some tools can be really helpful, like a, a wedge pillow, or there's this excellent like springy bench that's made for gardening but can hold quite a bit of weight, and you can put it right over someone, and that's really helpful so you don't have to use your knees or hips too much and there's lots of tools out there to help, but they're not being discussed.

No. And so I've spoken with them a while back, actually. I spoke with a sexual health nurse who was somebody who worked alongside doctors when people were recovering from surgery or, or, you know, diagnosed with cancer or whatever and, and wanted to discuss their sexual life. And she struggled to get referrals. She— like, doctors, either they just didn't know that she existed, or there was a huge amount of discomfort around this topic in relation to everything else that they were dealing with, right? It's like, oh, let's just get you back on your feet again. Let's not worry too much about whether or not you can have sex, right?

Yeah, absolutely.

So how do you— do you work with doctors and is that part of your role?

I don't at the moment. I'm trying to figure out how I could do that legally with like being a, a support or an advocate for someone going to a doctor. The closest I've been able to get is I'll do a little consulting and help them come up with questions to write down. Because I don't know about you, but when I'm in a doctor's office, all the questions I had go right out the window because they're poking and pushing and they have their 20 minutes or 10 minutes they have with you. And so having the questions written down is really helpful.

Yeah.

But I wish we had some sort of like liaison that could be going to these visits with the patients to really make sure that they're getting the support they need. Or the options.

Yeah, I mean, just generally the feedback that I get from so many older people is that when it comes to talking about their intimate life, doctors almost— many doctors unfortunately look at them like, I don't really understand why we're having this conversation.

Like, yes, what's—

you know, why do you want this? What's this about for you? Right? They don't— they kind of think that that's a nice to have as opposed to a this is a really important part of my life that I wanna continue. I mean, it's interesting, like one question I, and I don't know if there's any symptoms of any of this, but you know, recently I've been to see a cardiologist because there's a history of cardiovascular disease in my family, right? So at a certain point, everybody gets offered statins, right? It's just like, you know, 'Yeah, do you want statins? Because you can have statins, la la la la la,' and, and all of this. And I'm just generally against taking any medicine that is not absolutely essential. And I'm not at risk. I, you know, my last test revealed I'm not at risk. But then I started reading some of the symptoms of statins, which is about muscle pain and stuff like that. And I didn't read anything about sex at all. And I didn't know. And but there was a worry inside me, like, if I take this stuff, is it gonna make it longer for me to have an orgasm, it already takes me ages, like, you know. But they don't talk about this.

Yeah, they don't. They really don't. And there's this unfortunate bias that at a certain age people don't want to have sex, which just blows my mind because I— whenever I hear that, I, I look at the person and say, do you ever want to stop? Like, and if they aren't having sex that feels good, they'll say like, oh yeah, I can take it or leave it. Well, that's a different conversation. But there's so many ways to like enjoy and experience pleasure. And that doesn't have to stop at any age.

No, no. And as you said, one of the things about your, you know, about your grandparents is, is understanding the importance of self-pleasure, which of course, in my— even at my age, we weren't really taught anything about masturbation. It wasn't really discussed at all. We kind of had to especially as women, we just had to kind of— if we were lucky, we happened upon our clitoris when, oh, that feels really good. Oh, I think I'll stay down there for a while. You know, but for most old people older, I suspect it, it just really wasn't, wasn't spoken about at all. So to discover this at this age must be quite revolutionary for them.

Yeah, absolutely. And having conversations with older folks is also making me realize how many people experience pain with penetration. And because of how little research that's been done, or the more recent research on female bodies, they're just— they don't want to have sex because it's been painful their whole lives. And they didn't know that that's not normal.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, somebody told me in one conversation that 50% of all women over 50 struggle with vaginal atrophy, which I didn't even know about, which is, which is a crazy number, which of course, you know, relatively the same number of men struggle with erectile dysfunction, but there's no shortage of information and, and opportunities for them to get that sorted out, right? Yes, we can just go to the local pharmacy and pick something up here by just filling in a questionnaire. Whereas if you go for— well, firstly, if you go for vaginal dryness here to the pharmacy, they'll, they'll point you to the lube section, right? Which we have half those products I would not put in my body if you paid me money. Yeah, right. Because I look at the ingredients and it's like just, just all chemicals, right? And these are like the most popular brands. So nobody has a clue. They're going and they're like, oh, orange flavor. Oh, that sounds lovely. You know, stick it in my vagina. Some orange flavored lube. Absolutely revolting. And, and so we— there's no education. There's not, you know, and these— and the pharmacies don't know that this stuff isn't good for you either because their sales force is just going out and and just buying a load of stuff going, there's that women problem sorted out over there on shelf aisle B, right?

Yep. Yeah. I recommend coconut oil. It is natural. It works. There's different ways you can work with that, especially if you're having like consistent dryness. A wonderful pelvic floor specialist told me about getting a tiny ice cube tray and putting coconut oil and freezing it. Oh, pop one up there, and as it slowly melts, you will be lubricated throughout the day.

Ah, interesting. As long as you're not using latex condoms, you're fine.

Yep, yep.

Yeah, no, in fact, somebody was telling me the other day that if you're allergic to, um, vaginal estrogen, that coconut oil is one thing that's recommended. The ice cube trick is a new one.

So yeah, yeah, interesting.

And of course, you know, the other thing is, of course, that in, you know, when often with pain and illness comes weight gain, comes feelings of insecurity about your body and all of that, which also can just impact on how attractive you feel.

Yeah, absolutely. And there's, you know, we mentioned it a little bit. There's a lot of discussion about size diverse couples. And, you know, there's a lot of biases connected to that too, of what shape body is allowed to have sex. And that is— I don't think I can swear here. That is not good. Okay. I think that's bullshit. Because that's, you know, it doesn't matter your age or your size, like, you are allowed to enjoy pleasure. And there's so many, there's so many messages we get all the time about what we aren't, or what we should be, or how we're not enough. And it is really hard to push against that and try to look at ourselves and enjoy ourselves. And if we can't find one happy thing, or one thing we love while we look in the mirror, then start neutral. What can my body do for me? I'm so happy my lungs are working. I've got my legs that carry me through the day. And you keep on that neutral, neutral plane until you can start to add in, I love my eyelashes. I love, I love my boobs, whatever it is. And that is really important. And then when you're having sex with different size people, like, it is okay to say, I need to move this part of my body so you can get to that part my body and find ways to, to make it intimate. It doesn't have to be— I mean, it could be awkward and that's fine. Be playful. We need to explore because what's going to feel good one day might not in another week or another year. And so being open to exploring is really helpful.

Yeah. And you— I meant, um, you mentioned like the little pillow. I bought one of these. It was like a blowup Wedge the other day, um, because I saw somebody using one and I was like, oh, that's kind of interesting. And it was like $10 and, you know, it was this blow-up thing and it was brilliant. It was just like, it was great for like lifting up the pelvis. Yeah, just like a really useful thing to have, made certain positions a lot more comfortable. Yeah, and I think that's the thing is like there is stuff out there that if stuff feels uncomfortable You know, either go and speak to a specialist or Google, like, how can I have sex on my side in a comfortable way? Or I've just had a hip replacement operation, what can you recommend? I mean, I said to— somebody actually asked me the other day, said they had a hip replacement operation. I didn't know what to say other than possibly spooning.

Yeah, that's a good one. I always try to recommend like a little bit of stretching. Around that area. Maybe even like if you have any CBD cream can be really helpful for reducing a little pain, but like get some movement in the joints first before you jump right into something. Like, I hope there's some buildup before anyways, but yeah, work that in so your body is ready to, to be in these different positions. And I always say, you know, sex shouldn't be painful unless you want it to be. And there's so many— there's so many tools out there, you know, whether it is a wedge pillow to lift up your hips, or a sleeve to put around a penis. If you have arthritis in your hands and your wrists, and you can't do that for your partner or yourself, or your jaw can't handle that, there's plenty of tools out there that can stimulate those sensations without putting the strain on your body.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. If only they'd learn how to make the instructions with bigger type so that older eyes could read them. There's one, there's one, only one toy that's actually been designed for people with mobility issues by LoveLife called LoveLife and Rev by OhMyBod. And the instructions are with really big letters. And Suki, who's, who's the founder of OhMyBod, actually designed this. So it's got like, you just slip your fingers in and it's got this little shape and you can hold on to it like that. And, um, But I was so glad to see that the instructions were actually with big writing, because mostly I struggle to read any of the instructions on these things. I just really do struggle. But yeah, I mean, I think, you know, going back to buying a vibrator for your grandma, like, there's no cutoff age when it comes to buying sex toys or sex pillows or sex furniture or whatever you happen to need. I mean, like, the point of sex furniture actually is to make sex more comfortable, right? Like all those wedges and all that dip, like all of that sort of stuff just gets you into the position without you having to do too much. So I suspect it's great for people who, you know, who might struggle otherwise. And but yet it's never marketed to older people, right? It's just like, yeah, he's got a picture of some young hot couple on the, on the packaging. And you— and I suspect people just think, oh, this stuff's not for me, you know, it's not for me.

Yeah, I just think there is another toy, it's, uh, it's in Australia. I don't know if they're distributing it anywhere else yet, called Luddi. L-U-D-D-I.

Oh, I don't know that one.

And it's made for people with pretty extreme mobility, um, differences. Yeah, where it is silicone, it's in a charging pad, you can slip it right off off and place it where you need it. It can curve, you can sit on it, and, um, I don't know how big the type is for the instructions, but they are like disability-centered, so I don't know that they would do that.

That's very, very, very cool, Luddy.

Yeah.

And did you tell your, um, grandmother about cock rings?

Yes, we have had a conversation about that, and I, I I think that one is not in their cards for them at this time, but definitely learned quite a bit from that. Yeah.

I spoke to this guy, he's like, always put a ring on it. So I'm always, I'm always, I'm going to call myself the Queen of Cock Rings because every time it's just like there on my bedside, never, never a thing. Like it's always going to. Yeah, it's just what it needs to do, right?

Exactly.

But it's, you know, you talk about the body confidence thing, that there's been this massive uproar this week about Bridgerton and the mixed weight debate, which has gone viral, and people getting very incensed about the fact that this has become such a huge topic of discussion. And I always think that when we, you know, it's hard enough being older, looking at your wrinkles and everything, without then having to face up to this huge furor because God forbid some woman who's, you know, a plus size is going out with a guy who's not.

Yeah. Yeah.

It's like, why is this even the news? Why is this of interest to anybody?

Great question. Because they can market us and sell things to make us try to be this different thing that we're not. I think a lot of it comes down to what a professor of mine called visual diet and pay attention to what we're watching and reading and listening to. And what are the body shapes of those people? What are the colors and ethnicities? And like, there's so many differences in people that might not be represented in the media we're watching. And so trying to actively incorporate more shows or books about people who live in different bodies than yourself. Can really help normalize the very wide array of body sizes we have.

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

That could be really helpful.

Yeah, I'm— I was in a naked village in France a few weeks ago. It's the only naked village in the world, and most of the people there are older, um, because a lot of naturists just are older, and there are some very large bodies there, naked bodies, and some very small body. I mean, basically like any body shape you can think of is there. People with scars, people with cellulite, people with, you know, whatever, wrinkles, everything. And, and it really— when people say, God, I could never go to a place like that, I always say, well, for me it's about— it really makes me feel positive about my body because I realize we're all a different shape, we're all a different size, and it's just about being comfortable. And once you remove all that media expectation around what you should or should not be, and you see people just wandering around in the nude, just happy as anything, you know, you realize that, yeah, it's just, it's just what goes on in our own mind. It's like nothing, no, Nobody's demanding anything out there except, you know, we're, except what we think we're being told all the time. And it's whether or not we choose to believe it. And, but it's hard. It is hard. I know people find it really difficult. I watched a woman doing a TikTok video. She's about to be 70 and she's doing this thing. I'm 69 and I'm dating. Like all her videos start, I'm 69 and I'm dating. And she got somebody trolling her saying, oh, who'd want to see two wrinkly bodies rubbing up against one another, right? And she just was like, well, because why wouldn't you? Because, you know, when you're lying down, everything evens out anyway. And it's just—

I love it.

Yes, it's really funny about the whole thing. I thought she was so sweet. And I'm meeting her tomorrow. I'm quite excited. But I thought, you do have to be very resilient to be able to put up with some of the nastiness that's out there around, around body shapes. Do you have any tips for people who may feel self-conscious about how they look, especially as an older person?

Yeah. Well, first, a lot of those comments from hateful people on the internet or around, they're projecting their biases, their misinformation, and their insecurities out onto others. And so you don't like that, that saying from childhood, I'm rubber in your glue. I feel like that makes so much more sense now that I'm older and understanding. Like, you can say whatever you want, that is your opinion. I don't need to hold on to that. Saying that is so much easier than doing it. Yeah. So really practicing gratitude for yourself, what you have, you know, what you've accomplished in life. Like, just the fact that you've been through life— like, life, life's pretty wild and pretty difficult sometimes. Being able to get through it is, is wonderful. And finding out what feels good for you. And then there's some really great resources out there, like, uh, The Body Is Not an Apology is an incredible book about our bodies.

Oh, I haven't heard about that one.

Oh, Sony Renee Taylor is wonderful, and I try to make every one of my clients read the book. They don't always, but it so much about how we don't need to apologize for how we take up space, whether we're in a larger body or we're white or we're Black or whatever. We don't need to apologize for existing. And how can we bring that appreciation back and own who we are and the space we take up and maybe even take up a little bit more?

Cool. It's funny because you're just a little bit older than my son, um, And I see so much more body dysmorphia and stuff around your age group, frankly, than I do amongst my own. I mean, yeah, sure, we're— we don't like our wrinkles and we may feel a bit unattractive and fat and, you know, wonder where did our middle suddenly come from and all of that kind of thing. But, you know, when I see what younger people have to put up with now, I think, oh God, I'm so glad I'm so much older and I don't have to put up with a lot. Yeah, sure. Of course. I, you know, I do. I'm still very conscious about like areas of my body that I wish were a little less wrinkly, but it is what it is and I can't really do that much about it. So, you know, but when I see younger people, I think, God, we had it pretty easy, actually. Most of us growing up, we didn't have too many images being chucked at us. And You know, yeah, sure. I get trolled. This woman gets trolled. Like, I've just decided, like, the good thing about social media is that, well, at least on TikTok anyway, is I don't know if you do it on the other ones, but you can actually block specific words. So I just, I just block granny.

It's great.

I just block granny, grandmother. Like anything, because I know that most of the trolls are just going to use the word granny in some negative way, like, hey, granny, or something. So if they say granny, I don't see their comments.

That's great. I should probably be a little bit more strategic about that.

Yeah. So just think about the shit words that people use against you, right? And you can just get them blocked. So, you know, so that's what I do. Anytime I see a repetitive word come up, which is always in a negative context, I'm just like, yeah, I'll just add that word to the words, the blocked words. And sometimes they actually often now remove negative comments as well. So I don't seem to see as many shit ones as I used to. I did go through a phase where I thought, God, you know, there seem to be a huge amount of trolls, but recently it's not been so bad. In fact, everybody's been pretty encouraging. And the only thing I'm inundated with is young men from Ghana who want to marry me.

No, I don't.

I don't see them as very harmful, frankly. But yeah, but, but yeah, I mean, you know, I think, I think as you've, as you've pointed out with your grandparents and with my parents, you're never too old to learn about this shit. There's no cutoff point. So, you know, if you still have desire, if you still want to experience pleasure, you can be 60, you can be 70, 80, 90. It doesn't matter. Yeah. And your grandparents are inspirational.

I agree. I agree. They've been so wonderful in my journey of this. And little do they know, but it's just I feel so grateful that I have a grandma that was willing to Well, she gave me sex talks until I was 20. When I get— when I first responded with, 'Grandma, I think I could teach you some things,' she didn't like that. And then now, like, I'm a sex therapist and sex educator, and, and I now teach her things. So it's, it's, it's really wonderful to, to have someone being so open to do that. And I just try to give that space back. I've— in the workshops I do, I've had to shorten the actual workshop part and make more time for the Q&A. Because once one question gets going, people just really let them roll and they're curious about so many things. And why don't we have spaces like that for more people regardless of age?

Yeah, I don't know, but I think we should start them.

Yeah, well, you're doing it. I love it.

Another new business opportunity, like, you know, like Conscious consciousness sex, sexual consciousness raising sessions for older people.

Yes.

Or yeah, that sounds good.

It does. It's got a ring to it. I'm ready. Let's do it.

I'm gonna go and I'm gonna go away and think about that one. Look, honestly, no, seriously though, I should stop, but now you've inspired me in my business head. But I was thinking one of the things that, um, that Ashton Applewhite, who you may or may not know, she's done this— she did a book called This Chair Rocks and a TED Talk about getting older. She doesn't really talk about sex, but she just talks about ageism and, and what it means to be an older person. And she does these kind of like consciousness-raising groups. And she's got an online toolkit, which is basically like if you want to set up a group in your town and you want to talk about ageism and stuff. Like, she gives you a, a format and a way that you can start those conversations and some things that you could do. So we could easily do that and just put it on my website, your website, as just as an opportunity for people to go and download something that they could use if they want to start a little group locally to open up the conversation about sex and older H. Yeah, why not?

I love that idea. I'll have to get that information before we end.

We need to think about that one.

Yes. I thought, you know, when I started having these conversations with my grandma and sharing with some colleagues, I've been encouraged to do a podcast called Sex Talks with Grandma, where I bring on different grandparents and what is the topic we're focusing on. I mean, you're very much doing this Yeah, but I just— creating more spaces would be really helpful.

Yeah, yeah. I think having— I've spoken to— there's another woman I've spoken to, I'll hook you up with, called Kelly Connell. She's another sex educator, and she goes into like care, you know, social care homes and senior living places, and she does talks. So yeah, maybe we can get something together like a little toolkit, and then I can create a little map so people can find their nearest ones.

Yeah, absolutely.

Difficult to do. That would be kind of—

I do them all over Washington, so if any listeners want that in Washington, I am available.

Brilliant. Anyway, it's been so lovely to talk to you, and you've really inspired me now to think about yet another thing that I need to do.

Yep, always, always.