How does ADHD show up in your Sex Life?

This week's episode has been sponsored by Oh My Bod, shifting the evolution of pleasure. Hi, this is Suzanne Noble, and you're listening to Sex Advice for Seniors and ADHD. Let's talk about ADHD because recently— she's laughing already— recently quite a number of people that I know have been diagnosed with ADHD and announcing it on social media. And so I thought it was highly relevant when I was researching today's guest and saw that she'd recently done a deep dive into how ADHD affects your sex life. Yeah, I was like, wow, well, we gotta talk about that. So, um, Sabrina Baldini has done a TED Talk. Congratulations, Sabrina. She's a sex educator. She mainly works with people that are younger, in sort of college age, or as we say in the UK, university age people. And she's a bit younger herself. But I'm, I'm very much a believer that we can learn from anyone of any age. Doesn't matter. She doesn't have to be old like me. But yeah, she's recently— and she, and like me, we were just talking about our TikTok audiences, because she's got like 120,000 followers and I've got over 150,000. But as we both acknowledge, these numbers are fairly meaningless when you realize who's actually viewing your content, or in fact that they're leading to death threats or other things that are totally undesirable. But anyway, to the topic at hand, Sabrina, welcome to Sex Advice for Seniors.

Thank you so much for having me. What a delight.

Yes. And look, let's talk about ADHD because I know that I've read, you know, you did like a carousel of signs that people that have ADHD might behave differently in bed. So just tell me a bit about that.

Well, first of all, bless your heart for calling me young because I work with a lot of college-age students and I am a geriatric millennial. So I am I'm born in the early '80s, so I just, I turned 40, I'm gonna be 40, I lost track, I'm gonna be 42 in October. So thanks for that. And it's really funny when I talk to college kids, they're always just like, you know, back when you were a kid, miss, or like back in the '90s, miss, like what was it like? I'm like, oh my God. But I'm so excited that you wanna talk about sex and ADHD 'cause it's a very big topic that's very close to my heart. Because I have it myself. And I— gosh, where do I start? I was diagnosed with ADHD in my 20s and then I kind of ignored it. And that's like not unusual that you're just like, I don't know what to do with this and I don't know how to navigate it. And but things started to make a lot of sense about my— it's an executive functioning issue. It changes the way that you move through the world. So it really made sense about my emotional regulation, my ability to focus on things. And like not very kind of black and white. And my attitude, like so many things came into focus. Anyways, when I was diagnosed though, kind of ignored it and then COVID hit. And during COVID all of my vices were taken from me. I used to work out a lot. I need a lot of structure. That's a big part of the ADHD brain is like needing novelty but structure. We are just so fickle. We're like a paradox, a walking paradox. But during COVID all of my vices were taken away— my structure, my, my schedule. I had a baby at home, it was chaos, and I really backslid. I was climbing the walls and my ADHD really spiraled. So I kind of got re-diagnosed again during COVID I went back to my doctor to talk about how I was not coping well, and I know that COVID, everybody was kind of going nuts, but It just seemed to me that people around me were like kind of okay. And I was like, I'm just not. I'm climbing the walls, I'm losing it. And now that the dust has settled and I've kind of zoomed out and looked at everything, I, I know that the numbers regarding diagnosis all say the same thing, that there was a big spike during COVID And I, I wasn't alone in that, that the world shut down. Our coping mechanisms, the things that we used, you know, had in place that gave our days like structure and helped us to move through the day were just all gone. So COVID saw just this really massive spike in ADHD diagnosis, particularly with young women, which is really surprising for me. It was like, yeah, like, yeah, teenage girls to teenage young women to like mid-20s saw a big spike. But across the board, people were just getting diagnosed left, right and center. I think, I think COVID revealed a lot. About a lot of people. And when I was diagnosed, I was told that like, these are some physical things you might be thinking and feeling, Sabrina. So, you know, like restlessness and agitation. And I was running so much. I'm a runner and I was running so much during COVID that I gave myself a terrible injury in my hip. And I was told that I couldn't run for 12 weeks. And that's actually just caused a massive collapse when my ADHD spiraled. So I was told certain things during my diagnosis, like, these are the physical things that you're going to feel. I was definitely feeling them. And these are the mental and emotional things that you're going to feel, like frustration and anxiety and moodiness and things like that. But sex was left out. No one said anything about sex and nobody really does anyway.

No, they don't. I mean, I've never seen anybody talk about it. Yeah, the guy that I see, he, he always says, oh, I'm sure I have ADHD. He has ADHD. And I'm like, well, I mean, you can't really self-diagnose these things. But you know, there's certain, certain things that you've mentioned that might indicate that he does. But then again, there's certain things that you've mentioned that might indicate I do as well. But I've never, you know, I've never gone to be diagnosed. But I'm curious about the sex side of things. Yeah, obviously, if that manifests in ways that seem more consistent and then I could be like, oh, Suzanne Noble, that sounds rather familiar.

ADHD, I should say, I'd like to back up a second, is neurodivergence. So it's a neurodivergent disorder. And I hate saying disorder because I just feel like it's not a disorder. It's just like a way you move through the world. But anyways, it falls under the neurodivergence umbrella. So ADHD, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, OCD, obsessive compulsive disorder, ASD, autism spectrum. I think borderline personality also falls under— don't— I don't know that much about that. And I'm quite certain bipolar falls under the neurodivergence. Bipolar is a little bit different though. It lives— it's a little bit different because there's a lot of mood regulation anyways. But, um, ADHD falls under neurodivergence. So, um, and neurodivergent people like move through the world very differently. I'm going to close this door. Can you give me one second?

Yeah, of course.

Okay. That's why I just wanna back up a second because I see overall health and wellbeing as having like 3 main pillars, physical health, mental health, and sexual health. And I think people take physical health seriously mostly, and I think we're getting better about the mental health, but the sexual health is quite like abandoned unless you're asking for neurodivergence and yeah.

Men and the convergence of sexual health and mental health.

Yeah, I think that's where it is.

Yeah, totally ignored. Totally ignored.

When I— during COVID during my diagnosis, I also went back to school and got a graduate degree in sexual health and rehabilitative medicine from the University of Alberta in Canada. And it was all online, of course. And that was the first time I ever saw any kind of mention of neurodivergence and sex. And I was like sitting in my virtual classroom and the slide came up and it said ADHD and sex behaviors and my jaw dropped. So I just, I could not believe my eyes and I didn't, I, I could, I didn't even connect the dots. And then some of the things that were listed were like ADHD tends to be a condition or disorder of extremes. So there's not a lot of in between. So you're either hyperfocused, like you're, it's like you're really distracted or you're really focused and it's, there's like no gray. And sex can look like that too. It's almost like a frenzied need on your mind, got to have it now, now, you know? And then, or you're just kind of completely switched off. And that can be really tough if you're partnered with somebody who might need some time to get into things and you're like, well, I'm ready right now. Like, I'm ready right now.

What's the problem?

They're like, well, I'm not a robot. I can't just, you know, turn on and off. And people with ADHD aren't robots either, but it's sex drives tend to kind of be like that. The desire tends to be very palpably on or off. And the way that we process dopamine is a little bit different. We love dopamine, we get these big hits in taking sex out of it. There tends to be some risky behaviors associated with ADHD and like wanting a drive, needing that dopamine hit. But then when you tie sex into it, it can really change your behavior. It can really do things to your behavior. So there can be a lot of risky behaviors involved sexually as well. And one of the things that's associated with ADHD and sex and the need for dopamine is novelty. So like needing a newness, needing a freshness, like needing something like a new kind of challenge. And I think oftentimes when you say something like that, when I say like novelty is something that's like really great for an ADHD brain as far as keeping it sexually engaged, engaged. I think a lot of people see that as like multiple partners, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with having an open marriage or relationship or being polyamorous or going to sex clubs and stuff like that. But there's all these other ways that you could bring novelty.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, to keep it engaged and keep it stimulated and get that dopamine flowing, you know. And there could be like, um, yeah, like role plays and sexting and whatever, right? So yeah. Yeah, some of the things I saw and was like, good God. And, and another big one, and I have a workshop that I, I just launched and I'm like really excited about it because it's years in the making, um, is that people with ADHD outside of sex generally tend to have like a lot of issues with authority and like being told what to do. So there's oppositional authority defiance, and sometimes it's even like dysphoric, like a big problem with it which outside of sex can lead to like having trouble keeping a job, you know, like bouncing around from career to career, really struggling at being told what to do. So there's a lot of people with ADHD end up either like going into sales where there's lots of like dopamine hits when you close that deal. It's also kind of entrepreneurial in nature. You are your own boss to a certain degree. And other jobs that tend to be wonderful for people with ADHD, again, like the novelty, like paramedics, a change, but there's also structure, you've got a team. Things that can engage your brain and keep you focused and novelty, right? There's change. But a lot of people with ADHD tend to jump into entrepreneurship. It's not shocking because there's like a lot— we don't do well with authority. And I can speak to that 'cause I was like chronically un— like I can get jobs, I can have them, I like them, but I have a lifespan of like 2 years before I'm like, I can't. I hate this. And it really impacts things. And I was always okay, always managed to have a great career, but I could see there was so much potential for a lot of struggle, like a lot. And that oppositional defiance doesn't just go away when you're having sex. So it doesn't necessarily have to be anything bad, but if that resonates with you as somebody who has ADHD, or perhaps your partner does, and they're like, well, they don't really take to authority very well, you can put that in the bedroom and now you start playing with authority and power dynamics and role play, you know. And, and something that's like really satisfying for a lot of people with ADHD is, is brats and brat taming. I'm not sure if, if you know what that is or what.

No, I don't know what that is.

So a brat— here's the thing about, here's the thing about sex, okay? It's like, it's complicated and there's lots of power dynamics and I think lots of people hear this a lot, like sex is filled with power, and maybe you can't quite understand what that means. So I'll give you an example of a brat. So like a brat is— and there's one of many examples, but I just kind of like this one— a brat is in the kink community, somebody that is just really defiant, defiant, like intentionally being, no, I'm not gonna listen to you, like, but like, you can't tell me what to do. So acting like a brat, with the goal of getting disciplined later.

Oh, okay. Okay.

Yes.

Right.

So then the person that would discipline them is a brat tamer. And, and if you— a brat tamer, right. So if you zoom out and look at that, and this is the thing about sex and power, in generally regarded in the kink community, brats generally tend to be regarded as subs. Yeah, right. But, but then like, if you zoom out and look at it, it's like, well, they're being intentionally defiant, intentionally bratty, kind of very naughty because they want you to do something to them and then they get their way. So you're like, yeah, so who's controlling what? Like, who's really in control here? And role play and power dynamics like that tend to be incredibly satisfying for ADHD brains because there's a lot of like defiance and authority and you're challenging it, and you can make sex like really fun and really playful if you just work within that power and that defiance. It can be really fun.

Yeah. And I think I'm sort of just ticking the boxes in my head here and going, okay, but playing sour grapes because I can, is that some of these things are to be found in a healthy relationship, right? Novelty, for instance, is we need novelty or some creativity in a healthy relationship to keep us engaged, right? Like, 'cause if we keep doing the same thing over and over again, it just gets boring. And by the same token, being hyperfocused could be construed as just being very present. Like, if I'm with somebody, I'm not thinking about anybody else. I'm just completely and totally absorbed in the moment that I'm in. And, and roleplay I've always found really fun just because it's, because it's creative and creative people like things where they can use their imagination and they can just kind of like let go. So I think a lot of this stuff is to be found possibly in, you know, in people that have been diagnosed as ADHD, but equally in people that haven't and just have a very healthy relationship and a playful approach to sex. I mean, I think probably where it gets problematic is, as you said, if you're mismatched in your relationship and one person is a kind of all-or-nothing person who needs something right that minute, and the other person that they're with may be somebody that has a completely different sexual response and needs a much more kind of gentler lead-in Right? So two people who potentially have got similar approaches possibly can work quite well together because, because you know, that's the way it goes, right?

And again, like I love everything you're saying because even if you don't have ADHD, you're not neurodivergent, you, I think a lot of people can relate to it and they're like, yes, I would love to have creativity, playful, playfulness, naughtiness. That's cool. It's just like for an ADHD brain, it's like you kind of like need the stimulation or you can, you can check out entirely. And sometimes the checking out can last a very long time where you're just like, oh, right, not interested in sex at all. Like, what's going on with me? But there was a point I wanted to make about, about hyperfocus. So, so like with my clients, many of whom happen to be young men and not all of them have ADHD, but the ones that do, like hyperfocus can manifest in certain ways like you're just like really focused on the task at hand. Like, let's say you're, you know, in a room, alone in a room with somebody, and you're now you're doing it, you're having sex, you're being sexual with them, and you're so, so, so focused on like one thing that like other things stop working. Like, all right, perhaps like your erection goes away. So very oftentimes, like when I work with clients, like that's the thing that's motivating them to come see me. They'll be like, I think I have erectile dysfunction. You know, like, okay, so what's going on? But then, you know, like, well, actually, you're going to lose your erection from time to time. Men don't have erections for hours when they're having sex. So like, you know, that's even like kind of a porn literacy and media literacy discussion. But then also given that, and this has really been my experience in the last couple of years, that ADHD diagnosis absolutely skyrocketed during COVID There's just so many people that I work with that are on the other end of it like that. They've just gotten a fresh diagnosis. Don't really know what to do with it. Like, they don't really know much, right? And nobody has mentioned sex, so nobody has said a single thing about it, you know. So they're so like, well, you know, looking at your intake here, I'm seeing that you were diagnosed with ADHD 2 years ago, and, and, you know, if you're hyper-focused and hyper-distracted outside of sex, there's no reason that that's not going to happen when you're in the moment. Yeah, when you're having it, right? So it is a erectile dysfunction, it's different. There's like more questions that I would ask and stuff like that, but it really is not unusual that it isn't erectile erectile dysfunction, they don't have a disorder. It's just that they're having sex like somebody with ADHD. Like, you're so focused on, let's say, going down on your girlfriend or going down on your, on your boyfriend, your partner, everything kind of just stopped. And you're like, I don't understand, like, I can't, I can't get it back. Like, what's going on? Then you panic, you know, and then that's a whole other issue.

But yeah, yeah. So I guess what we're saying here is that in that all of these behaviors potentially are fine in, in, and until they become a problem.

Yeah, right. Yeah.

So that's, so that's really what we're talking about here, isn't it? We're talking about the fact that you can be really hyperfocused on going down, and you can love it. And it can, and, you know, it can turn, and it can turn on all the other parts of your body, because that's, you know, that's your gig is giving somebody pleasure just is a massive turn-on for you. But if it's if it, if it's at the detriment to your own enjoyment and use and you feel disconnected from the rest of your body because you're just completely focused on that one thing, then it's a problem.

Yeah.

So people are—

sorry, go on, go on.

No, no. And that's what I was going to say. It's like for me, none of it's the same thing with when people tell me they've been diagnosed with ADHD, I think As long as it's not a reason to obfuscate responsibility from things or to make excuses because you've got this, you've had this diagnosis, but you've lived with this condition your whole life without, and you've gone about your business and maybe some stuff hasn't worked and now it all makes sense to you as why it hasn't worked or why you've become, you're so easily distracted or why you can't keep a job for a couple of years, but you still managed to get through your life.

Yeah.

And you're still here and everything. So that diagnosis is a— you know, it's an explanation. It's a rationale for why you are the way you are. But, you know, what I always think is when it prevents you from moving forward with your life because of the fact that you've— you know, this condition is going to suddenly make you incapable of doing X, Y, Z. I mean— You know, I'm a serial entrepreneur. I've— but equally, when I start businesses, I typically stick with them for a decade. So, and I give it, and I could get— and, but I may be running two others on the side, but I'm always, I'm always like, I'm always trying to make the, the thing work, right? So I'll stick with it for as long, you know, I'll give it, I'll give it a really good shot until I'm like I was like, you know what, I've given this the best shot I had and it's not working and I need to move on. And I'm not good at failure just generally. I don't like to admit failure or defeat. So I'll keep hanging in there.

You just said two things that are lighting my brain up. The first of which, and if it's okay, is it okay if I jump in? Yes, of course. I wanna be really clear that ADHD, just like autism spectrum disorder, just like OCD, lives on a spectrum. So no two people are identical and, you know, like it's not— some people have it in, in more like severe ways and other people it's like lower end. So just, I wanna make that clear too, that, that it's not black and white. Like the, the challenges that you may have or your partner could be different from other people. Just wanna say that much. A and B, failure, failure and rejection. ADHD brains don't take very, very well at all. Like really right to the point where there is a condition called RSD, which is Rejection Sensitivity Disorder, or a Rejection Sensitivity Dysphoria. And, and I think that was a really big illuminating moment for me. Because I, especially professionally, if we're talking about work for a second, like I, when I would make mistakes at work, I would completely crash out. Like there was no way I just couldn't recover well. And I would see people make a mistake that is totally your fault. And I hope that's happened to other people where something goes wrong and then you look through the email chain and you're like, it's me. Like, I'm the one. I'm the one that screwed it up. I'm the one that dropped the ball. And I wouldn't be able to manage it or handle it really well. And I would completely freak out, like crash out, call in sick to work, not be able to manage it. And then I'd see other people walking around making mistakes, kind of shrugging it off and moving on with their day. And I didn't understand why it was so challenging for me to, I don't know, get something wrong, like be wrong, do it wrong, not be perfect. And, um, anyways, that is like a part of, of, um, ADHD is like rejection and failing, getting things wrong, not getting it right is really difficult. And where sex comes in This is why kink can be such a valuable aid and such a valuable place for people with ADHD, 'cause there's so much structure and rules that you have to follow. Yeah. You know, and it goes like this, you know, like you have to have safe words and silent alarms. And if I'm gonna, if I want you to spank me, if I want impact, we're gonna talk about pressure, we're gonna talk about, you know, sound. We're going to talk about every single thing. I want you to calculate it perfectly for me. And ADHD brains really thrive with a lot of structure, which can make rejection and getting it wrong less likely, but also less severe. You're like, okay, I had the rules in place. I'm trying my best to follow them. Does that make sense?

Yeah, absolutely. 100%. And I suppose that there's less risk of failure when you've got it all laid out in an instructional way. Often kink is very boundaried like that. So it's very easy to, to understand what needs to be accomplished during the session, and how you're going to go about it. And people really like that degree of structure. And the other thing is, does it mean also that within relationships, people that are on the spectrum might have more— might find it more challenging to break up with a partner, for instance? Would they, you know, would they want to kind of keep it going for as long as possible so that they— it doesn't, it doesn't become their fault that they've, you know—

Yeah, I don't know the answer to that, but that's really, really interesting. I mean, I think these things are rarely black and white. We're talking about individuals, and I could see somebody like really having a very hard time admitting defeat in that sense. Like, I'm really failing, and I, I let my family down. Letter— like, I can see it. Yeah, uh, somebody with ADHD, um, really not processing, you know, a breakup that well because it's an emotional regulation issue too. Lots of highs and lows, like you're kind of really upset or kind of completely emotionally checked out kind of thing. But then I could also see, like, you know, um, this constant need for novelty and newness and freshness helping somebody to rebound. Not— I don't mean with another person, but just like helping them to recover better, like Liking a new challenge is not unusual for ADHD people.

Yeah. Yeah.

You know, it could go both ways. Like, I don't know. And I, that's really interesting. I wish I could say that there was research into it, but there is nothing. No.

And I think it's interesting that, you know, when we were talking about one's working life and for instance, the, challenge of staying in a job for a certain period of time because you want the freshness and the newness. And, you know, taking defeat, you know, taking failure really personally and all of that. You can see how you can translate so much of that to a relationship, you know, to not being able perhaps to stay in a relationship where there wasn't a lot of novelty. For example, or was it where there wasn't a lot of creativity, or where there wasn't that structure, or all of those sorts of aspects of your working life that could easily transfer over to your sexual life? I suppose that, you know, the challenge with your sexual life is that telling people that you don't seem to be able to maintain relationships beyond 2 or 3 years is never very attractive to most people. And, and Therefore, you have to find other ways to get your dopamine fix, right? Because yeah, yeah, really what we're talking about here, we're talking about, you know, needing that degree of freshness, novelty, whatever you want to call it, on a, on a more consistent and regular basis than other people who might be, you know, quite happy with a very vanilla missionary style every Friday relationship. Relationship, right? I mean, you know, and I've never been that person either. So that's, you know, it's very familiar to me. And I suppose, you know, I cope with all of this by just making sure that I create my own creativity. Like, you know, I'm the one who's injecting all of that stuff in it because that's That's my requirement, right? And I've done that with very vanilla people, and I've just said, right, oh, I need this to be a lot more stimulating than this because it's just— otherwise I'm gonna get so bored. And they, and they, and vanilla, quite, you know, people who might have other issues, they quite— most of them have never said, oh, I don't really want that. They've been, they've been fine with that.

Well, you know, someone's vanilla doesn't mean they're like not curious. I get it. I think it just depends like how, um, fantasy and desire are two different things. I say this so often, like fantasy lives in your head and it's very erotic and you like to think about it and it's in your spank bank. It's like a thing that's there. And desire is your motivation to get something, like how motivated are you for it. So So I think that, you know, somebody that maybe is like vanilla doesn't necessarily not have fantasies, you know, like they have probably a very vivid imagination, all kinds of things on their mind, like, are— how motivated are they to get it? Maybe not a ton. But if they meet somebody like such as yourself, who's like very motivated, and it's like, I want to try like this brad and that spank and that, and they're okay. Yeah. Yeah. You want— like, it doesn't— as long as they're comfortable, of course. It doesn't mean— yeah, being vanilla, I feel like, gets a bad rap. You know, it's fine.

Yeah, no, look, I'm not putting down vanilla. I think, you know, vanilla is one flavor of ice cream and it's nice. It tastes good and it's full of flavor and there's nothing wrong with it. It's just, you know, it's just like some people like having vanilla all the time and some people like chocolate and pistachio and mint chocolate chip. Oreo cookies and all the rest of it.

Yeah. I'm going to add something really quickly too. Like, neurodivergence aside, ADHD aside, like, with a lot of my clients, I always, like, I always give them a questionnaire. I'm happy to give it to you too. And you get 25 questions about sex to, like, kind of, you know, open, expand your mind. Um, but the, the 3 big ones are like, what is sex and how do you define it? And what is intimacy and how do you define it? And then, like, are they the same thing? Why or why not? And I like to watch people, especially couples, kind of like sit there and like have their wheels turn. And, and I think that— no, and I'm not shading anybody, no judgment. But like, what is sex and how do you define it is like really, really important because like if— and I want to make sure I say it right and it might come out wrong, but if your definition of sex is like kind of like one thing, like I think it's a— it's penetration, like it's a penis goes into a vagina, then Like, sex really— like, spoiler alert— there is kind of a right answer there. Sex is really, you know, series of activities, a bunch of things that you could do with somebody that's like really playful. And it's a place where people are having fun. And if you readjust it to that, you know, if you're like, okay, well then it's a place where we're having fun and we're excited and we're like horny. Like, do you have to be alone in a room to have sex? Can you have sex like an ocean apart. Like, can you, you know, what's the thing that you enjoy? Is it like the act or is it like building tension? Can you build a ton of tension, cock tease the shit outta somebody? Can I swear? Is that okay?

Yes, of course.

Yeah.

Yeah.

For some people and tying it back into ADHD, for some people such as myself with ADHD, like building tension, a challenge, the newness, you know, like, oh, you're saying no, like that making, you know, somebody work for it. And being playful and being a tease is like, all part of the fun. That's all part of the fun. You know, if it depends on how you frame things. And that's like, it's so complimentary for people that are, you know, on that are, you know, neurodivergent or not. Like, I think anybody could appreciate that. It just depends on like, how you're viewing things, what lens you're using.

Yeah, completely. I completely agree with you. And the more we think of sex in that expansive way, the more, you know, the more fun it is. And of course, the longer we can have it because it doesn't rely just on penetration. I was supposed to give a talk this week to a bunch of junior GPs, and one of the slides was how do we define sex, and it was, you know, about all acts, activities that are about pleasure, just, you know, it doesn't, it doesn't necessarily just mean PIV sex. Anyway, it's been absolutely lovely. The time has flown by. We're done, babes. Yeah, you know, I'm always happy to have people back on again, but it's, you know, I just, um, I'm really, I'm really happy to shoot the shit about ADHD and sex because we— it's, you know, I've never spoken about it before, and now of course you've lit up my brain and I'm thinking Do I really need to go and get diagnosed? Not really. No, I don't need to. I don't, I don't have any desire to.

I, I just see kink as a very overlooked subject, period. But I also see it as a very overlooked aid. It's helpful. It's so helpful, especially in the space of ADHD, that if even if you don't have it, which who knows, anybody listening to this and being like, I'm just gonna Google kink, like I'm just gonna like Google different kinks and see where it's go. It's so fun. Exactly.

I mean, look, kink is so, so, so fun. And it can be, you know, look, it could be anything, like you said, from just playing around, taking on different roles, to furry handcuffs, to, you know, a little bit of rope, to some light spanking, or some not so light spank— like, there's so many variations of it. It's just like, yeah, it's such— like, there's no end to kink. You know, dressing up in rubber. Yeah, putting on nothing at all, whatever, whatever you want, it's whatever you want it to be, whatever's outside the norm, really, for you, which could be something that's quite normal for somebody else. But yeah, it's just, it's just good fun.

I mean, that's what I call degradation kinks. Like, do you want to be called a dirty little slut or something? Or praise kinks? Do you want someone to be like, oh my god, like, you're making me so horny, I'm going crazy, like stuff like that. It's like, it's so fun to play with language, you know. Are you more of a like, um, um, uh, what's the word, walk me through it? There's a very, very— I've been so exposed to it recently because I've had a lot of people ask me about it, that their kink is kind of like they want to be walked through the sex. Like, first you're going to do this, and then you're—

oh God, yeah, you're so good at this.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's like a total turn-off for me, like a constant narration going on. Yeah. Anyway. Yeah, I can't stand it. I mean, I don't mind— no, I quite like it before. Like, I quite like a bit of a setup, like a setup. But during the act, if there's just too much talking and it's relentless, I get very distracted. It's like, You have to stop. I can't listen to too many words. It's too, it's too much going on. But anyway, that's a whole, that's a whole nother discussion. Anyway, you have a nice day in Canada. It's just pissing down here in London with rain. Absolutely. And I was going to have some fun after this and I'm, and it may still happen. Who knows?

Okay, we'll have some fun.

Thanks so much, Sabrina.

Thank you.

Bye everyone.

Ciao.