The Dating Mistakes That Keep You Single After 40 | ft. Sandy Weiner

the ones where we don't feel the spark, how do we know how long to stay with those people? Because will the spark start to develop? And so you do need the chemistry and the compatibility. And often when you start with those big sparks like you're talking about, you get blinded completely by the sparks. Those, those hormones make us really stupid. I have to say, when you make a connection, you start to often fantasize and fill in the blanks, I like to say, like, oh, this person probably is blank, when you don't even know. In fact, they may be the opposite of blank, but you think, well, they're so handsome and they're good in bed and we have good conversations, so they must be all these other things. And we don't know because people reveal themselves over time.

Hi, this is Suzanne Noble, and you are listening to Sex Advice for Seniors. And recently I've been appearing on some podcasts myself, which has actually been really fun. I love sitting on the other side of the table and having people interview me. And the woman that I'm speaking with today is somebody whose podcast I was on a couple of weeks ago, I guess it was, and we decided we were gonna do a swap. So I want to welcome Sandy Weiner. Who is the Chief Love Officer. I love this title at Last First Date. She's actually been a TEDx speaker. She's a dating and relationship coach. She's an author. As I said, she has her own podcast. And basically what she does is specialize in helping women over 40 find lasting love with confidence and clarity, which is what we all need to do if we're going to find love. After 40 or 50 or 60. And she also wrote a book called Choice Points in Dating that we're going to be speaking to today. So welcome, Sandy, to Sexing My 50s Seniors.

Thank you so much. And by the way, I do work with men too. I actually love working with men, but I mostly work with women.

Yeah, well, men need all the help they can get, don't they?

Oh no, we all do, right?

I was just speaking with somebody just before this on a Substack Live, and we were talking about the differences in how men, um, relate to getting older and dating versus the way women do, and that women sometimes are just like full of life and creativity after 40, and men are like, I'm chilling, man, I'm, I'm just chilling. Um, yeah, yeah. So let's just talk about women over 40 Because you say that many women over 40 struggle with second-guessing themselves in dating. And why do you think this happens? And, and how can they begin to rebuild self-trust?

Well, I think people under 40 also second-guess themselves. I think that anybody who hasn't really done some work is going to question, is this the right person for me? How do I know? How long should I stay? And people stay way too long. I mean, I stayed too long in my marriage because I didn't know. I didn't know what was possible. I just think that we just don't have enough education around what makes a relationship work. What are the non-negotiables to look for? What are the true deal-breakers? Not the fake ones that we think are deal-breakers, but like, how do we know what to judge, what not to judge? We don't want to go in blindly. I used to call it like dating in the dark. Most of us are just like kind of stumbling around.

Yeah.

And it's so important to learn learn how to date properly in a way that really is dignified.

Yeah, I think as somebody who's like, you know, I'm on a little dating frenzy, um, at the moment now, just to— because just to, you know, change things up a bit. Sometimes I just like to see who's out there, and I go on, turn on the apps for a few weeks. And I think what I always find And I'm sure that I'm not alone in this, is that when you meet somebody and you just have a really good time and you click in that first or second date, and the, and the conversation's vibing, it's really flowing, you're just feeling really comfortable with that person. Perhaps you go to bed with them and it's, it's, you know, it's good. It's not like, maybe it's not amazing, but you know that that's something that builds up over time. How do you stop yourself from going Oh, I think this, this could, this could work, you know, because it's a natural consequence of just like meeting people, isn't it?

Yeah. So I think if, especially if you haven't had a lot of good connections, when you make a connection, you start to often fantasize and fill in the blanks. I like to say like, oh, this person probably is blank when you don't even know. In fact, they may be the opposite of blank, but, but you think, well, they're so handsome and they're good in bed and we have good conversations, so they must be all these other things. And we don't know because people reveal themselves over time, but we also are operating from our attachment styles, right? So for anyone who doesn't know, when we're growing up, our parents how they raise us, or our caretakers— sometimes it's not even parents— the way that they raise us, it has a lot to do with how we are romantically later in life. And so if we grew up in a very secure environment where we trust our choices because our parents validated our choices and they validated our feelings and we were allowed to have all feelings, as opposed to so many people who grow up in homes where they're, they're not trusted. Their, their feelings are stilted and stuffed. And so how do you trust yourself if you are anxiously attached, where you, you start to build these fake relationships where there are none? Or if you're avoidant, which means that you keep everybody at a distance and you do the opposite. So to be securely attached and to feel like I really trust my choices That is the work. And I just interviewed a woman who wrote When Longing Is Your Lover, and this is a limerence. This is where, like, what you're describing, I think, is where you have a crush on somebody, or where you, you start to think about them a lot, you start to future trip, you know, what would it be like in, in a year, where we're going to travel, and then you realize that you don't really know them. And so we need to slow down and we need to know how to pick the right people and how to gauge like what's really happening here.

Yeah, and I mean, I suppose that part of that is just realizing that relationships and getting to know people do take a while. And the first glimpse of a person that you see that feels good doesn't necessarily mean that 6 months from now or 3 months from now, you're going to feel the same way. So I suppose what we're saying is that recognize that getting to know anyone takes a considerable amount of time. I mean, that's certainly what I've learned even from those instant spark relationships is that sometimes a couple of years down the line, I'm like, whoa, there's some things here I wasn't told about. And I'm kind of freaking out a little bit about this, but I'm not gonna show it. You talk about becoming a woman of value. And I know that was something that we spoke about when we had our conversation about, but I think it's helpful for listeners to hear what that means in the context of dating and intimacy in later life.

Hmm. So I wanted to just say one thing about what you just shared is that the opposite can also be true. The ones where we don't feel the spark, how do we know how long to stay with those people? Because will the spark start to develop. And so you do need the chemistry and the compatibility. And often when you start with those big sparks like you're talking about, you get blinded completely by the sparks. Those, those hormones make us really stupid, to say, like, we just lose our brains and we don't think straight. And so you ask your friends and your friends don't know, and that's why people hire dating coaches. All right, so what's a woman of value? And I came up with this term as I was I had just started my coaching practice and I was finding my value as a woman. I had stayed too long in a marriage that I didn't feel valued. I felt valued for certain things, but not for the complete and total me. And I think if we don't know our value, then people can't value us. And so I started to really think about what was missing. And some of it is just how we identify our values, not just our value, but what do we stand for? Because if we don't know that, we stand for anything. We, we become manipulated, we become an option in somebody else's life. So doing that initial work, like, what are my values? I value kindness, I value commitment, I value consistency. Consistency is huge— how somebody shows up over time and how I show up over time. And then Learning how, so I divided it into 3 pillars, show up, stand up, speak up. So showing up is how do we show up in life? How do we show up at work? Are we consistent? Do we do the things that we want other people to do and where are we falling behind and sometimes hiding our true self? And then the stand up is taking a stand for those things that are important to us. And then speaking up and setting boundaries and learning how to communicate our truth when so many of us grew up being people pleasers and contorting ourselves to fit into other people's lives.

Yeah, and it's hard, you know, and I think also sometimes values in, again, when you're in those early stages of a relationship, sometimes they're a bit more malleable than you'd like them to be. So you think, oh, I love consistency because that's my big one. It's like if you don't show up when you say you're going to show up, If you don't take action when you've said you're going to take action, I start to get— well, I just start to distance myself, if I'm really honest, because I just think, well, this is— there's, there's nothing sitting behind all of this. There's a lot of words, but there's no actions. But of course, you know, sometimes then you realize, oh well, this person is consistently 15 minutes late. I don't really like people that are late, but 15 minutes I'm willing to accept. Accept. The next thing you know, it's 30 minutes, and then you're like, oh, it's 30 minutes. I'm not so happy about that. But it's, you know, it, it really is about standing for what you believe in and not, and not becoming too malleable. I think in those situations where you really like someone and you're willing to give them a little bit too much rope, and it's something that I've definitely been accused of by my friends. Like you make things way too easy for people. You give in to them way too easily and you don't hold them up to the same standards that you would some other people. And I think sometimes for me, that's just important to recognize. It's like you're going to— I want to hold the significant others in my life to the same standard that I do my friends who I don't allow to get away with shit, frankly. And why would I let this person I've only just met get away with this kind of nonsense? I think sometimes we have to look at our friends and say, you know, if you can't behave as well as my friends, yeah, there's, there's no place for you. But of course, you know, dating in our 50s is very different than dating in our 20s and 30s. And how does it differ in how the clients that you're seeing— what are the major differences that you're seeing in how they date from an emotional and a psychological point of view?

Well, again, I want to— I just want to interject for a minute on what you just shared about being late, and then I'll address this because that's a big pet peeve of mine as well. And I believe, again, in stating your standards up front. I have had that conversation on the phone. I am an on-time person. How about you? And I, I just want to know, like, if you're— if you've already called me late and you're going to show up late, that's not going to work for me. And I once had a guy who said, I'm usually a little late, but I will make every effort to be there on time for you. So you're stating your standards from the start, and then if somebody starts to flake out on you, I address it from the beginning, like I'm not mad at this person. I'm just not going to date them anymore because I can't be yanked around like that. That's not going to work. But I was in my 20s. So that is one of the differences. I think we become less tolerant of the things we tolerated when we were younger, some of us. And hopefully we know ourselves better. Hopefully, like, if we've had children, that's behind us. We're looking for companionship and friendship and prioritizing that over looking for a husband to raise children with. You know, it's, it's a very different focus. I want somebody to travel with. But I think the other part is we focus less on chemistry most of the time because chemistry is harder at this age. We've changed, they've changed, and we have to course correct. I remember dating again. I was turning 50 when I got divorced, and I was just like These guys are old. I'm not older, they're old. You know, I just, I didn't, my brain hadn't caught up yet with what attraction would be at that stage in life. And so it's so important to get really clear with who you are now, like what are your priorities, and, and then it's much easier to date and to know what your non-negotiables are. Like, so I think back in my 20s I had a vague idea, but because I grew up in a very contentious home with a lot of yelling and fighting and didn't really understand what marriage entailed, I didn't know how to argue well. I didn't know what to do when my husband wouldn't talk to me. I tried to get him to talk and he would walk away and I would be like, "Okay." I mean, I was upset, but I stayed and I stayed and I stayed. So I think we're less tolerant. We hopefully have better skills, and if you don't, then you should go out and get some, because otherwise we're going to just keep repeating the same patterns that we did when we were younger. And I see that. I mean, there are so many shows out there about later daters and people who are dating later in life, and, and you can see the patterns come up because they haven't done the work. So they're still attracted to the bad boy, and they're still— it's like You know, we have— we are hardwired, but we can change our attraction with the right support.

Yeah, I mean, I did, as a little side comment this morning, I spent a couple of hours with a photographer who's doing a series of photographs of women over 50, nude and semi-nude, for an exhibition that she's putting together about sensual sexuality and sensuality in older women. And so I spent the morning doing this photoshoot. It was really fun, actually, and quite an interesting experience. But we were talking about dating after the shoot, and what you said about doing the work was something that she brought up. She said, you know, my biggest problem with dating at the moment is that I've spent an enormous amount of time really doing the work on myself, the inner work on myself, like really considering what I want, what my values are, being comfortable in my body, like knowing what, you know, knowing who I am, like really trying to get deep about who she is and what she's looking for. And she said she posts on dating sites that she's seeking partners who have also done the inner work. And she gets a lot of the time the response, what do you mean by inner work? And that's amongst, you know, and she said often she ends up dating younger, much younger, because she struggles to find older men who have done the same amount of work on themselves and understanding themselves that she has. And so she's just generally frustrated with the men, the age-appropriate men that are out there. Is this something that you're hearing as well from the women that you are working with?

Yes and no. So I think writing on your profile, I'm looking for somebody who's been to therapy or has done the inner work, it may or may not get you the right person, but often it doesn't because people don't really pay that close attention to what you're writing, number one. Number two, there are a lot of people who've done a lot of therapy who are still stuck. And so it's not a good gauge. It's not— for me, it's not a good gauge. I want— and there are people who have not done therapy, who have done the reading and have been self-aware and have— they're emotionally intelligent and they're incredible communicators. So I think when we get stuck on those things, we overlook sometimes people who are wonderful. And that's a big part of what I do as a coach, is to help people separate what we think we need and what's really beneath the surface. So let's say a lot of women come in and say, I wouldn't date anybody without a college degree or a graduate degree. And I say, why? Oh, because I want to be able to have intelligent conversation. So do you know some PhDs who are kind of dumb? Sorry, I'm just saying, like, we We have to get to know people. If we label them— lawyers are this, doctors are this, people with degrees are this kind of smart, people without degrees are this kind of stupid— we are going to limit ourselves. And so it's the same with all of this, with the therapy. There are so many couples where the woman has done tons of work and has taken all the courses and has worked with dating coaches, and the man has never stepped foot in a therapy office. But he is so incredibly attuned. And the opposite can be true too. So yes, yes. And I think I want to encourage everyone to get to know the person in front of you. Don't just dismiss people based on the fact that they don't own their home or they, they have a dog and you don't like dogs. I mean, there are a lot of things that can be overcome. They're not 6 feet tall. I had a client who She's close to 6 feet tall, so she always dated tall. I mean, for her it was more valid than for most women who are 5'2" and looking for the 6-foot guy. But she wouldn't even look at profiles that were under 6 feet, and she would have missed this amazing man who was younger, who was shorter, who didn't have a lot in his profile and had dark pictures. But he reached out to her, started talking to her on text, and He was incredible. He was consistent. He moved the relationship forward quickly and they bonded so quickly and had an amazing relationship. So people miss people based on these preconceived ideas. So even this therapy thing, like I had a line once in my profile that said, I'm looking for a man with a high EQ. And one guy mansplained to me that he thinks I meant IQ. Sorry. And I'm like, That to me is— you obviously don't have a high EQ, but it's like, you know, whatever.

I—

you're going to find so many different kinds of personalities out there, and, and don't put people in a box if you don't want to be in a box yourself.

Well, you mentioned before, and I want to bring this up, and I know it's contentious, but you mentioned before about chemistry versus compatibility. And I have a friend who has been in a relationship for, I think it's about 11 years now. And when she first met her partner, she didn't really feel any chemistry. And gradually over time, she got to know this man. And, you know, they've been together ever since. Right. I find that. And she's like, Suzanne Noble Noble, chemistry can be created. And I'm like, can it, can chemistry be created? Because just the word chemistry itself suggests something that's, that's, you know, two forces coming together, right, to produce some sort of reaction. That's the very meaning of chemistry, is it not? So how can you concoct that when, when these elements are ignited? How do you, you know, either they are or they're not. And she was like, no, no, you can create that. She created that. And I do struggle with that because I do think that for the majority of people, they are looking for some sort of physical attraction, some sort of mental attraction, something that's going to get you engaged and get those wheels turning around. And yes, of course, getting to know everyone takes time, but you suggest that That is not, you know, you can build on, you can, you emphasize compatibility. What is your feeling about chemistry?

It's a balance of head and heart. So chemistry can't be concocted out of thin air. I don't believe you can create chemistry from zero. If you're turned off, if the person is absolutely not somebody you can ever imagine kissing, do not try to make that happen. It's not going to happen. So I would say if it's a 5 out of 10, you know, there— you're not feeling excited by their presence, but there's some energy exchange. It's— there's something there, and the conversation flows, and there's some excitement, there's some push and pull. That person cannot be the most good-looking person in the room and still chemistry can grow. And often, I mean, I think people who are good-looking are not attractive, you know. There's— it's not about looks, it's about a connection. So if, if a person is attractive but you don't yet feel excited, that's actually a good thing because you'll be more balanced in getting to know them. You'll use your head and your heart and getting to know them. If it's— there's something about them that just turns you off, then walk away. I mean, but chemistry develops through action, like you mentioned before. Somebody once told me they, they were dating the man who became their husband and was— they were not feeling that excited, but then her sister got sick with cancer, and the way this man showed up totally made her love him and, you know, just fall for him because he was the kindest, sweetest, most compassionate person. And the opposite can be true. You can have an initial spark, and like you said before, you're like, oh, this person is not the nicest person, he's not showing up. So I do think it can develop, but, but with— you've also got to put yourself into situations that are a little exciting. So I think a lot of dating is boring. People meet for coffee and then they meet for dinner, and they're always sitting and looking across the table at each other, and they're interviewing each other, and that's freaking boring. And also, doesn't— it doesn't develop chemistry. But going go-karting might, and going mountain climbing might, and going out for food that is exciting to your senses might. Doing something that you don't usually do, getting out of your comfort zone. So I recommend that people do things that can help that hormone spike when you're meeting people.

Oh, it's a really good point. And I think that often we either see the best or the worst of people in scenarios that are unfamiliar to them, right? That's when you see somebody— I spoke to somebody and I was like, oh, I'm not sure whether I I truly believe this, but they said by date 3, her advice was by date 3, you should try and go on a weekend away together. And I was like, really? And she said, yeah, by date 3, you should be organizing something where you go away from your homes. Both of you go away from your homes just for like a couple of nights together because going away together is the quickest way to see how people behave in unfamiliar scenarios. Situations, right? So you got to get to the airport or you got to get to a train and you got to do this and you got to, you know, you're going to be in a new place and you're not going to know your way around. And it's like all the different ways that the worst of us or the best of us comes out, right? I mean, I have been with people who were just amazing travelers, just amazing. Like I met a woman, actually, I met a woman when I was in Thailand and we ended up following each other. Cross through Thailand and then into Vietnam. And we, we both said to each other, even though we just met, we just clicked because she was like, you give me space, I give you space. We come together for dinner, we have fun chats, we just do fun things, but we give each other like room to be alone. And she's like, I've been away, I've been met women traveling in a similar situation where it's been a disaster. And in fact, I spoke to a friend of mine yesterday, same thing. She said, you know, she was prickly, she was this, she did this. And I've seen people, men. I almost broke up with my husband when we went away for the first time together because he was, he just could not handle anything that wasn't organized. You know, like any spontaneity was just freaking him right out. He was just like, I, you know, can't. And he just explode. It was really, you know, I just said to him, I can't handle this. So her, her view was 3, date 3, go away.

Okay. So I disagree with date 3. I do agree that travel brings out the best and the worst. And I will— let me, let me qualify what I'm saying. I think that when you rush something, you don't know them well enough to go away. And it's, it's like saying sleep with them on the second date to see if they're good in bed. Or people will say that over the phone before they even meet you. Are you still interested in sex? I mean, most of us are still interested in sex, but like, what kind of question is that? I don't know if I'm interested in sex with you, and I don't know if sex will be good with you. Like, why are we having this conversation? We haven't met yet. I get it. I mean, hopefully if you're dating, you're interested in sex as an end goal at some point and maybe travel, but The problem is a lot of people want to get to the end right away. So there are people who— I had a conversation recently with a guy who told me about his medical problems on the phone, told me about his dysfunctional family, told me everything. And I'm like, I haven't talked to you before. Like, why are you oversharing with me? And that's— so a lot of people believe, you know, that's going to be the best way to get to know you. Because now it's all there. Now if you're going to reject me, you'll know. Why not know sooner? So the problem is we can't handle all that information about a person until we like them more. And so I think it's like if somebody's dating and they really fall in love and then one partner gets sick, you're much more likely to want to take care of them as opposed to on the second date they say, hey, listen, I have cancer and will you come over and take care of me? Like, I don't know you well enough and I don't like you enough to want to devote that time to you. And I'm not trying to be insensitive here. I just think we have to parse out and have boundaries around these kinds of things. So travel is another one. It's— I do believe travel can make or break a relationship, and it is a good thing to do. And it's also good to have these conversations before you travel. Like, I've had clients who went away on trips and they never had discussions about the time they needed alone. Now that's something you should be talking about. You should have agreements with people and just to say, listen, I'm the kind of person who needs to recharge in quiet, and I'm going to need to take some time alone every day. Yeah, that I 100% want people to do, but not on the third date. So I think instead of doing that, maybe go on a road trip for a day, like go out and see how they drive, see how they do in traffic. Do they have road rage? You know, don't— you don't need to go away on a trip to find those things out.

No, it's very, very true. It's very true. But yeah, there's nothing like traveling with somebody to, to really get you to see that person very quickly, I think, as well, because it's, you know, everybody puts on their perfect person front for as long as they possibly possibly can. But when you're thrown into an unfamiliar situation, sometimes it's a lot more difficult to mask all your rubbish behavior.

It's true.

Anyway, I want to know, if you could give one empowering piece of advice to seniors navigating sex and relationships today, what would it be?

Communicate. Know yourself and communicate what you want and need. Nobody can read your mind. Know yourself first because you need to read your own mind. And a lot of people don't know, and then they're like, well, they didn't get me and they didn't satisfy me, and I was afraid to say anything. So that to me is like so basic and not, not easy, right? It's not easy, but it is essential in every single aspect of your life, but especially when it comes to relationships, sex, dating, and The best relationships happen because people communicate with each other and they're clear, and it's just so sexy to be clear.

It is. I agree with you, Sandy. It's been absolutely lovely to speak to you again.

You too.

I hope you have a really wonderful day.

Yeah, thank you. You as well.