The RV Trip that Led to a Relationship Reboot

I'm very excited to welcome our new sponsor, Higher Nature, who have created Rekindle, which I'm currently trying out and is working a treat. A 100% natural libido-enhancing supplement for women which contains clinically backed ingredients to give your sex life a a boost. And who doesn't want that? This week's episode has been sponsored by Oh My Bod, shifting the evolution of pleasure. Hi, I'm Suzanne Noble, and you're listening to Sex Advice for Seniors. Welcome everyone. Today I'm really thrilled to have a very special guest, Marnie Battista. She is a renowned life coach, author, founder of the Institute for Living Courageously. I love that. She's dedicated her career to helping women, especially those of us who are over 40— I'm quite a bit over 40— rediscover their passion, purpose, and authenticity. She's got an incredible personal story. She spent 17 years in what looked like a picture-perfect marriage and career— that's 7 more than I managed— and realized something vital was missing. And she decided to transform her life, to face her fears or challenges. And yep, she even spent a year on the road living in an RV, which I can't even drive, to create a life of joy, fulfillment, and just be unapologetically herself. And she empowers women to break free from the shoulds that hold them back, whether that's in their careers, their relationships, or as we're going to discuss, in their more personal lives. And she uses a process that's rooted in neuroscience and life designs and just gets people to reclaim their confidence and create the life they truly love. I make that sound easy, but I know that it's I know that's what all us coaches do. Right. So we're going to dive today into how your personality type and the stories you tell yourself are shaping your relationships, your intimacy, and your future. Marnie, welcome.

Thank you.

Longest introduction.

I know. I was going to say, like, blah, blah, blah. I'm just a girl.

Yeah. So tell me. Yeah, I want to know. Firstly, we just have to talk about that incident about the RV, because let's just get that out of the way, just because I want to know, like, how did that happen?

Well, what's interesting— so I was laughing while you said that. You're like, I could never drive one. So I was married for 17 years. I got divorced. I was single for 5 years. Then I met my now husband. We've been together actually for 16 years. And in 2020, I got in a really big ski accident. That kind of made me realize life is short. And is the business that I created the one that I really want, or was it the one that I thought that you do if you're successful? And I also realized in my marriage that there were a lot of things that I was just sweeping under the table and not really addressing. And from that moment, we ended up— and a lot of stuff happened in between, but we ended up selling our house after 26 years living in LA, empty nesters. And my husband and I went together on the RV trip. So I actually never sat my ass in that driver's seat ever, never once. And I'm totally okay about it. But what was really interesting about that is that it's the best example I could ever find in real life of wherever you go, there you are. Because we thought that the RV would like solve a lot of the problems that we had. My husband's dissatisfaction with LA, we thought that, you know, because we changed our environment, that our marriage would be better. What happened really was it, because you're in such close quarters and you can't escape it, was that it really just showed the flaws, like, loud and clear. And there were no rugs in that RV to put them under. And so in the end, it ended up being like, it was an amazing experience. We had so much fun, and it really allowed us to make a decision. You know, about, like, not only what do we want to do with our relationship, but it was really for me, like, you know, life is short. Who am I going to be? And what am I really going to claim? And I'm going to go after that. And that's when I really decided that I had been running by shoulds and I was done.

Yeah. And I think that that's one of those— it's funny, I spoke to a dating coach a few weeks ago, and She said, and I don't know if you agree with this, but she said by date 3, you should do something totally outside your comfort zone, like go away together. And I went, go away together with somebody on date 3? Like, that seems outrageous. But she said no, because going away together and getting outside of your familiar environment is going to expose all the cracks immediately, right? You don't have to wait 17 years.

Well, here's the thing I would say to that, and I don't know how long this dating coach has been married, but when my husband and I first started dating, honestly, it was probably within 2 or 3 months. We went on a trip together to Canada and we went canoeing.

I lit—

I'll never forget because my husband's like, literally, you don't forget anything. And he— that sometimes is not to his advantage. We went canoeing and I literally remember being like, my God, he's so patient. He's so calm. He's so all these.

And I had an ex-husband.

Who wasn't any of those things. I was like, freaking winner winner chicken dinner. Like, right? I did what that coach said. 3 months that you're still in like butterflies, rainbows. So no, my husband is not calm and not patient, although he is working on it and has been working on it for 16 years and he's probably more calm and more patient than he's ever been. So I would say it takes more than one trip 3 months in to really see all of that.

See, my experience was completely the opposite to that because I went on a holiday with my then husband when we first met. Actually, it was within 6 months, so it wasn't like date 3. Okay.

Yeah, I think we're agreed date 3 is a little premature.

I mean, I think date 3 at this age— look, I'm 64, like, life is short. People are dying. 6 months is a long time. I could actually— in fact, the guy that I see now, I'd had like— I'd seen him like 2 times, and then I moved to the Grand Canaries for 3 months, and I said to him, just come and visit me. And I thought, nah, he's not going to do that. He's not going to do that. And he's, because I know now he's not a planner. So that suspicion was pretty accurate. But he did come and stay with me for 5 days. And actually he had a brilliant time and he hadn't been away in 10 years. And he, and we just had so much fun and it was fine, but I planned and did everything because I was living there. So he was like very kind of like, look, whatever you want to do is cool. And he's very much like that anyway. But flip side of that was with my ex-husband, we went on a holiday together and we almost didn't last. I have to say that the anger issues that he had, that he, that had been kind of swept, you know, he was doing perfect person, right? But he couldn't keep that together during this particular week-long holiday. And the very imperfect person came out and that was pretty like, whoa, I wasn't expecting that. And I just said, I can't be with a person who has this kind of explosive.

Yeah, of course.

And I said, and he said, oh, oh, no, no, no. You know, I'll, I'll change. I'll do this. I'll do that. Well, I mean, we all know what happens.

Right, exactly.

Say that. And as one friend told me, change takes a long time. It's not like, it's not like just happens overnight when people say, Oh, you know, you just can change. Change takes a long time. Oh yeah, that was a real lesson learned there. So I don't, you know, like being in an RV together. Yeah, my ex-husband and I would never ever have lasted that one.

We did have— so I just have to say that we did have like, it was the time of our life. I think that looking back on it, my husband would say, I wish I wasn't so stressed out. You know, but when you're doing something new and you're driving a 40-foot vehicle and you— the illusion of freedom, because that's the whole other thing, right? Uh, there's this fantasy people have, like, oh, if I didn't have my job, if I didn't have this, if I could retire, I would just go yada yada yada. And what I talk to when I talk to people who want to be, um, digital nomads or live on the road or whatever it is, decision fatigue is a real thing. You're constantly having to make decisions. And there are a lot of roadblocks and obstacles in that. And so in some ways, and that's why honestly, in the end, it brought us closer together because we realized like we do have the core same values, which is fun, adventure, new and novel travel, all those things. We both don't want to live a should life. We came up with this Radical Living Challenge together as like, not only it ended up being like a lifestyle that we still live, not just that year and what we originally thought, But those core values that we had, like, were the glue that kept us together to really work through a lot of those challenges that we've just been hiding from when you have kids and career and all those different things.

And I suspect that's one of the hardest things to do, isn't it? Is, is that often when people are in long relationships, I know this is the question that comes up all the time, all the time is how do you shake things up when you're in a long relationship? It's probably one of the hardest things to do. You literally shook it up by, by going, we're not going to live like this. We're going to live like this. But what are the other ways that you think people can shake things up for the better? I mean, in your case, it created, you know, other opportunities, but yeah.

Well, one of the interesting things that I think you alluded to is like kind of my process is that I, I came across in 2020, this idea of life design because I was like, we're an empty nester. Like, what are we going to do? I don't need to learn how to play pickleball. Like, I don't need hobbies. I have plenty of hobbies, right? Like, I really need to shake things up. And but I didn't know how to really put that together. Like, there was no resources that I could find. I Googled everything and I came across the design thinking model at Stanford University, which is the, like, the, the world-based innovative model for how products are designed in the world. So if you talk to any consultant or any design product design person, they know about this model. And I looked at it and I was like, well, what if you actually put this into place for your life where the product you're designing is your ideal life, your ideal relationship, and you're the user, you and your partner. And so my husband and I had been kind of doing like a very soft version of that up until 2020. But when we both got on board and decided like, let's intentionally create keep the, the back end of our lives together and co-create that using this model where you don't just— so the RV thing, that's why I said this stuff happened in between. It's not like we just woke up one day and did it. We actually followed the process. And that was the beginning of like us both getting really excited about what it would look like to live an extraordinary life, to get off autopilot. And so, so one of the most fun things about that was that we started looking at what were 3— this is just one, and it's in my book, How to Walk Through This, which is right there, radicalivingchallenge.com. We, we each separately came up with 3 life plans that were for the next 5 years.

Okay.

So we went out, we both went in other rooms, we both worked on it, and we came back and we compared them. And one of the things that was on there, I had this like— so under the— there's one life plan that's your like your crazy idea plan, right? But one of it was like, live in— live— like, literally, I don't even know where I came up with it. It was like, travel the country in an RV. Oh, I know, because my daughter actually, I think, had done it with her boyfriend during COVID Live in an RV for a year and travel around the country and write a book about it. Uh, and he had some other adventures, and one of them was about an RV. And so we were like, do you want it? So the next phase is that you do some tests and prototypes. So we were like, well, do you want to like rent like a Sprinter van? Because van life is like all over the internet. How cool. Let's go on a trip. We'll do 2 weeks in a Sprinter van. We'll go see Utah. We'll go, you know, on a little trip and have that. And the whole thing from the planning it to the doing it was like really invigorated us because I think when you get in a relationship that's long and you get to this place where you've created all the things you're going to create. You've created, you know, your wedding, you've created your early years, maybe you've created a blended family, maybe you created a family. You like, you follow the rules, right? You did the things. And then you wake up one day and you're like, well, shit, there's no more rules. And that's when couples get stagnant because they're not creating anything new. So for us to just say like, hey, let's create this like wild idea. And then that led to Well, that was a little small for a long term, but do you want to rent something a little bigger and go on like a 6-week adventure? You know, like, could we get someone to take care of our cat? And we did that, and that was like amazing. And then in that trip, that's when I was like, you know what, eff it, let's do the thing, you know, let's sell the house and let's really do the thing. And then we were creating like that whole itinerary, and we were creating so many. And so I really think the way to shake it up is create something. It doesn't have to be something like ginormous, but it's like, what can you do as a couple together that is a creation of something that you're both invested in, that is a common goal that you want to do together? And I think that's the game changer.

Can I ask you a small question around that? Sure. Because Esther Perel says that one of the things that makes and keeps desire alive is a degree of mystery and around having some sort of erotic life that exists between the two of you. And often that can be about seeing your partner in a new situation, a new environment, doing something completely new and different where they're really lit up. And in seeing them being really lit up, that makes them really attractive again because suddenly they've got something that they're super enthusiastic about. Or it could just be, you know, it could be a new hobby. But in this case, you were co-creating something new together. Did it light up your intimate life?

Yes. I love that you asked that because what's so interesting was that my husband would tell you like 5 or 6 years ago that he was an introvert and like I brought all the social energy to our relationship and all of these things. Well, the minute we got on the road, like I joked, he was the mayor of whatever campsite we are. Like I would be in there like work. I don't like, I don't know, I'm gonna talk to these people. I mean, I'm like, I'll never see them again in 5 days. My husband was like, hey, John, love that truck, you know? And I'd be like, who are you talking to? One time he came back and he was like, I met these people from Japan and they really liked our RV. And they had a 30-minute conversation using some, an app translating back and forth. And he learned so much. And it really did because I was like, Wow, he is like so social and confident and like interested and has all this expertise. And he was like the hero, right? Because he'd like, I found the most amazing campsite, you know, like, look at this, driving that big rig, you know. And so it really, it really, it really did. I saw him in a whole new way. And also, I don't know if Esther Perel talks about this, but Someone told me a long time ago that when you see your partner through the eyes of other people, you remember why you fell in love with them. And so people were just like, wow, your husband's so cool. Your husband's so this. And I was like, damn, he really is.

I know. And I think that, I mean, you did, like I said, you did something that was pretty radical, but I always think it's worth people thinking like, you know, what is it that you could do together? I once tried to take a partner swing dancing. I'm sure people are going to think I meant swinging, but swing dancing. And he had two left feet and he was really awkward. And again, we barely stayed together, but, but we then built this studio together that I'm recording this from. Unfortunately, he, he died a few years ago, but we built this studio together so he could do his visual arts. And when he was painting and drawing and doing creative stuff, He literally was like a kid in a candy shop. He was so happy. And when he was like that, he was super sexy because he just was in his element and he was so happy to be able to play in that way. You know, so I always think like, what are those things that we can kind of either, as you've demonstrated, do together something new, do something new together, or do something where there's, you know, where the person gets to just be playful, right?

Yeah. And that, and that, that was really it. It was, it was honestly so important to our relationship because like I said, it revived the creation and it brought to light the challenges. And it, the one thing that when we were, so we were doing basically nomadic living for almost like 2 years and we were in Australia and he was really just pissing me off. Like, there was a lot of different things that were happening. And I said to him, and I felt it like from the deepest part of myself, I think I was like 57 at the time. And I said, you know what you've taught me, which is so amazing. You've taught me that I can change is good and that even though I'm older, I can totally do change. And I thrive. And like, you know what? When I take the leap, actually things are better. And I said, And it took that, you gave me that gift to let you know that if these things don't change our relationship, not that this is an ultimatum because you should be who you are, but this is what I need. And I actually now know that if for some reason you don't want to be that person for me, I'm going to be great. And he was like, what? And I was like, he's like, yeah, but you can't replace me. I was like, no, I can never replace you. You're amazing. But also like, I don't know, maybe there's the next, I literally don't know, but I know for the first time in my life, I am going to be awesome. Yeah, I can do change. And I think the older we get, we forget. And I would think back and I'd be like, I went to like 4 different universities. I moved all around. I did all these things. I feel like the older we get, we forget that we can do change. And so that also taught me I can do that and I am enough and I am the source. So when you add both those things together, We almost like recommitted to each other, you know, and it was really, really a turning point for us in our relationship.

Yeah, no, I can absolutely hear that. And how do you, how do you manifest that and make that happen for your, for the people and the women that you work with? Because I suspect there's, you know, I sense that even though this was a pretty big deal that you're clearly a person who is, you know, who has taken bold leaps, as you've acknowledged before. Not everybody has, right? I mean, there's a lot of people that have lived in a very linear way and they've gone through things in a very prescriptive fashion. How do you support other people to be able to make those big or smaller leaps?

But they make leaps.

That they may need to make in their own lives to achieve that degree of contentment and self-confidence? Yeah.

Well, so first of all, I just say, like, you know, like an alert or like a thing. It's not for everyone. Like, I like— some people are like, give me my 9 to 5. Like, I love living with, like, you know, like all my kids around me and my grandparents and my uncles and my aunts. And I am good. Like, and I think like, like, that is amazing. So first of all, it's not for everyone, right? What I know is that the people that come to me have a thing inside of them, and they're like, I just wish I was brave enough to do the thing. Like, I, I see, like, I envision myself. I have a client who's 74 who is, um, uh, single, um, and she has always loved all things France. She lived in France in her 20s. She moved to California to be with her daughter during the pandemic, has sort of planted roots, but she really felt like she wasn't done living her life. And so her original idea was like, I really honestly think I want to live in France. She had this vision, but she was afraid. And so we did this life design process. And first she signed up for a 1-week immersion language course in Nantes, And then she was like, well, that was good. And here's what I learned about that. And then she like did like a 2-week thing in Bordeaux. And now she's like, you know what I realized is I don't want to live 100% abroad. I want to be able to have a place that I can go to for 2 to 3 months at a time and have community and a slower pace of life so I can still be around my daughter.

Because—

and so we just literally had a session. We took all the data that she gathered, right? So Again, design thinking. She's the user. She did a bunch of tests, prototypes. We took all the data.

We, we—

she got all these amazing criteria, and now she has two places that she wants to really examine, and she's gonna go do like a longer reconnaissance trip and actually look at specific neighborhoods and apartments and condos and all those kinds of things. And so the way that if you've never done it before, there's a couple of things. There's the spiritual principles of, like, how do you live a meaningful life internally, like, through faith and through wonder and through counting your blessings, right? There's just, like, a whole mindset that I talk about in my book. When you couple that with baby steps—

Yeah. And I was going to say, can you apply the same design thinking to finding a partner, for example?

100%. And that's what That's so great is that—

Or even exploring kink is another one.

Yeah, exactly. You're like, it's so the whole beauty around design thinking is prototyping. Well, it's what they call the empathy phase. You really have to understand the user. The user is not who you think it is because of what you thought you wanted or what you were supposed to, right? That's where we have to dismantle the shoulds and really figure out who are you at the core. And I use this tool called soul mapping. That when my clients do the soul mapping process, which is what lights me up, how do I best carry that out, and what are my core values and motivations? The goal is to design a life where everything fits those criteria, right? And so you have a full profile of your soul map, and then you start taking these little baby steps, and you're like, ooh, yeah, that was great. That was great. But no, that was it. And here's the thing. The process is as delightful as whatever endpoint you would ever get to, because you have something to talk about, you have something that you're doing, you know. And so in dating and relationships, it's the same idea. Who are you today? Get rid of all the past hurts, burdens, traumas. Like, what do you want right now? Right? And then you start going out in real life, online, however we decide we're going to do it. There are no failures. Everything is data. Everything is data. And the feedback, the process of dating or kink or whatever is iterative, meaning that you can't know what you like and don't like until you do the thing. ChatGPT cannot tell you that.

Yeah, I agree with you. And I think that the point that you're making, which is, I think, and goes back to the, to the RV experience is that instead of taking those massive leaps, by taking those little small baby steps, you avoid the massive risk of like disappointment, for example. Like if you say, I'm going to go out with a person I normally wouldn't go out with, I'm going to actually pick somebody that sounds great but doesn't really look like my type, as an example, right? And just go, let's see what happens if I do that. And if you go and you do that and you're like, you know what, he was a really nice guy, but there was just no chemistry or whatever. I feel I really need some, something going on. So you don't do that anymore, right?

I mean, well, exactly. And, and most experiments are more than one and done. Yeah, yeah, right. So you'd be like, let me go out with 3 people, I would say, that are not my usual type. And then the really other important piece of this experimenting is that you actually go in with questions that you're testing. So our binary brain usually goes, I like it, I don't like it. That's not helpful, right? Like if they're discovering a new drug, they don't go like, it didn't work, never mind. They go, okay, what worked? What were we testing? What do we need? Like, it's very specific. So in your experiments, you would say, like for dating, let's say it's I'm going to try to date men that are outside my normal mile radius.

Okay.

Right. So you would be like, okay, so what am I testing? Number one, if I really like someone, is it actually not a big deal to travel? Number two, how locked am I into where I live now? Is that a story or is that real? Because I always say, like, if I put like Prince Charming in front of you, but he lived like 2 hours away in your life, could you move or would you move now? It's right. So it could be that. It could be some people, it's like, do I feel more at ease or open with someone who lives outside my radius? Because I don't feel like I have to make a decision right away. I don't have to like see them every day. Like, I feel like I could have like my long-distance relationship and also not give up my independence, because that's another fear that people have, right? So you would make this list of questions. In order to answer these questions, you probably have to go out with like 3 to 5 people. Right? At least to kind of really get the data. And then you look back and you go, this works for me, or this, this doesn't work for me, right? And you have really clear information so that what you would then do is you'd be like, oh, what I really need is I could date people long distance, but I realize I actually can't move. It doesn't matter how amazing he is. And I have to date people that I have to check right at the beginning, are you interested? Would you ever be willing to live where I live because my grandkids live here? Or whatever it Yes. So everything, there is no waste of time. There is no waste of time. Get rid of that dating mindset. Oh, was it a total waste of my time? No, it wasn't. You learned something.

Yeah.

By yourself. So it can make it so much fun. And then that way you're also not so focused on the end goal. I think in dating, the thing that makes it really hard and really suck is like, I'm doing this for 6 months and I better meet my guy because this is the last time I'm ever trying, you know? And you're like, no, don't. The journey. Focus on the now. Focus on how you're growing. Focus on the things you can control and have fun because when you're experimenting, it's fun.

Yeah. And I think that the design principles, especially for people like me who like iterating products and shit like that, I quite enjoy the whole idea of looking at it as a series of micro experiments that you then reflect, evaluate, and then say, well, actually, no, because You know, I think one of the things that I've certainly discovered at this grand old age is that whatever we did previously, we don't have to do now. It's not— we can chuck it all away if we want, and we can just do what feels right for us. And sometimes we don't know what feels right for us until we find something that just feels different and better.

Well, yeah. And that's— so if you have the overall faith, right? Like, if you go like, if not this, something better. And if you go like, okay, I am going to really surrender that the divine is taking me to my exact right thing and that everything is getting me ready for my transformation or is part of my transformation, then wow, right? Then that allows you to be curious, open, and optimistic, which I think are principles for a healthy relationship or a healthy approach to dating. Curious, open, and optimistic.

And also, let's face it, as we end this, healthy approach to life. Because yes, if you are optimistic and— what was it?

Optimistic, curious, open, and optimistic.

Yes, curious, open, and optimistic. If you are all three of those things, you are by your very nature a much more attractive person to others.

Amen. Because it's really hard to be judgmental of yourself and others when you're curious, open, and optimistic.

I love that. Let's end on that because what a, what a lovely sentiment that is. Thank you a million times. Now thinking about, I have actually, I watched far too many van life videos. I can tell you, I'm I'm a little bit obsessed with those van life conversions that those hot young girls do.

Yes. They drive off. Yes.

Seemingly on their own. And I just keep thinking, how do they do that? But anyway, I, I, I love the fact that they do it, but yeah, you do have to change the black tank and the gray water.

Someone does have to do it. So I bless my husband. He never ever even, he never even asked me to do it.

That is, see, another reason to stick with them.

Exactly.

I'm with somebody very handy at the moment who's fixing a van at the moment, which is why he couldn't see me at the weekend. There you go. But you know, that's okay.

Maybe together off you go in the countryside of England, Cornwall.

I don't know if he's that kind of guy, but anyway. It's really lovely to talk to you.

You too.

And have a great day.