The Truth About Sex After 50 That No One Talks About

This isn't what he wants. This isn't gonna help us. This isn't sexy. This isn't helping us with our connection. And I went, this is not it. Can't somebody else teach him what to do? And we went to the best sex doctor who's talking about orgasms and this. And I'm like, I cried. I'm like, I don't want— I'm not worried about the orgasm. I wanna make love with my husband. Can somebody please teach him how to touch me, how to be with me? How to be erotic. How to make love to me, for crying out loud. There's nobody. So I decided to become the best sex therapist there was.

Hi, this is Suzanne Noble, and you're listening to Sex Advice for Seniors coming at you all the way now from Da Nang in Vietnam. I have now moved from Thailand. I am now in Vietnam. Because somebody told me it was going to be a cool, fun place for me to go while I was still avoiding the winter in the UK. And it is a cool place, although it's filled with construction and noise and chaos and scooters and stuff. So slightly annoying, but I'm making the best of it as I usually do, as I usually do. And today I'm with someone all the way on the other side of the planet in Vietnam— Vietnam— in Vancouver. Just hooked on my B words. And her name is Amy Kollar, or Kollar depending on how she pronounces it. And I just watched her TED Talk, which was hysterical. I'm gonna post a link to that. She's an intimacy and relationship coach. She has 20 years of experience, and she works with couples to rebuild their emotional and physical connections. And I have to say, just from watching her, if she wasn't doing what she's doing now, she could definitely have a role in stand-up because she's really, really funny. And I really enjoyed your TED Talk, Amy.

Thank you so much.

I laughed throughout so much of it. It was so funny. So welcome to Sex Advice for Seniors. Great to have you on the show. So yeah, when I was reading about your background I was intrigued because, like so many people of our age, you were in a sexless marriage, which led to you getting into all this and figuring out how to become in a sexy marriage. So I'd just like to know a little bit about that, about, about what led you to this and what was going on in your marriage.

I married my husband, I met my husband in my mid-30s. We were married quickly. I mean, I just fell in love. I knew him when I felt him, and I knew that he had health issues that impacted his ability to perform before I even married him. But I loved all of him, head to toe, inside and out. This, this is a sexy man who just walks into a room, you could feel him. And I'm like, I'm in my mid-30s, I can teach anybody. There's lots that we can do. I've had lots of experience, and I've taught lots of people. But I understood that when you get into a relationship, it's totally different. You can't just tell your partner what you like. They're not like, hey, I'm here to learn. It turns suddenly into criticism because every relationship goes through a power struggle. It's a phase. So then any feedback turns into criticism, which— sexual criticism, which is the worst. And he didn't know what to do. I couldn't teach him all the things to do because he was just like, ah, it's not gonna work, I'm never gonna be able to keep her. There was so much fear around it. So I, I'm like, you know, I loved therapy and I was like, okay, we get to go to couples therapy, let's— can't wait to see what this is. And then we went to couples therapy and talked about his— the minute we were talking about his childhood and I could see him shut down, I remember looking at the therapist going, this isn't what he— this isn't what he wants, this isn't going to help us, this isn't sexy. This isn't helping us with our connection. And I went, this is not it. So we found the best sex therapist in Beverly Hills. We went, found the best sex doctor in Beverly Hills. We went and saw the very best of the best. Yeah. And there was nothing. I mean, the best sex therapist is telling us to go on a date night, and I'm like, are you kidding? The man has— is suffering with erectile dysfunction. Can't somebody else teach him what to do. And we went to the best sex doctor who's talking about orgasms and this, and I'm like, I cried. I'm like, I don't want— not worried about the orgasm. I want to make love with my husband. Can somebody please teach him how to touch me, how to be with me, how to be erotic, how to make love to me, for crying out loud? There's nobody. And, and then it— I'm like, there— how come there's anybody? So I decided to become the best sex therapist there was. And actually help men and couples who were dealing with these exact couple— let me teach people how to be lovers, how to actually connect. I wanted therapy to be therapeutic, where you can come in feeling messy and leave feeling great. So I'm studying therapy and being, you know, I'm going, where, where, how are you helping people? And I'm also studying physical— physical therapy —what's it called—you go to a physical therapist. So I was also studying that because I wanted to understand pelvic health, pelvic floor health, because I wanted to help my husband and other men who were dealing with prostate issues. I mean, hello. So, um, somebody— I, I was like, I'm gonna learn on this, I'm studying everything that I can study. And a couple came to me, a woman came to me And she was like, you know, stuck in her cycles of, you know, anger and frustration and all of this. And I'm moving into her, into her body, and I'm me. And so I ask her, you know, how's your sex life? And she says, what sex life? My husband has erectile dysfunction. And I went, oh, honey. So I— she's fully clothed. And I was like, can I give you a pelvic floor massage just through your clothes? And you can see what I'm doing, this movement that I've developed. And she had an orgasm. And she's crying and going, 'Oh my God, you're a healer, and you're good at this, and can you please— I wish my husband could do that.' And I went, 'He does too. Your husband with erectile dysfunction, bring him. I'll teach him what to do to you. I'll teach you what to do to him.' And this is my favorite part. So they came, and they left. She told 2 friends, and he told 22 friends. That's amazing. Wow. Insane. So people were finding out about me all over the place. So I just started studying therapy and I got certified in multiple therapeutic modalities from the best— Gottman, Esther Perel, Mago, all of them. And I'm sitting there going, everything that you're talking about are the problems, the theories. I am actually teaching people the solution in my office, how to actually stop the expectations, drop the goal-oriented, stop relying on pills, learn how to actually connect with pleasure. That's what play is. People want to explore. What do they think they're exploring? You're trying to do it the same way you did when you were 17 years old. That's biology. We're mature now. We want gourmet, and that gourmet is actually learning how to play with pleasure. So what I discovered by helping men with erectile dysfunction who were like trying to help people like my husband, was that everybody wants to explore, but exploration happens outside of penetration, poking as I call it. And by learning how to be sensual lovers, it was like taking their love life to the, to the uptight, rebuilding relationships, not by talking, but by learning how to connect emotionally, physically. Spiritually, I'd even say, by learning a shared language around intimacy. So because so many of my clients that were coming to me were men, I wasn't using therapy language. I started to use different metaphors, like everybody loves pizza, you know, you love the pepperoni pizza, she wants pineapple. She doesn't want to ask for pineapple because every time she says, I want pee, you're already stuffing a pineapple— a pepperoni in her mouth. So I teach, you know, I teach them, shh, put yours to the side, we're going to get you yours. Let's discover what she likes. Let's discover the pizza she likes. And I teach it like a sport. So it's like you learn emotional connection, you show up for the huddle. That's the name of my book. That's what I shared in my TED Talk. You share a huddle, you learn this way to physically connect. Like in my TED Talk, I talked about the hero hold. Everybody loves that. And then that is literally how you create continued emotional and physical connection. Then you learn about the pleasure zone, which I just taught last week. Just before this, earlier today, I taught my club, my members, of the erotic zone and the O-zone. So you're literally learning all these different practices that work in a way for her and for him.

Yeah, and I think it's so interesting that you've basically done this in such a way to appeal to the vernacular and the language that men use, right? Because I think that on reflection, so many of the issues around all of this stuff around therapy, around spirituality, around tantra it's all very female-orientated, frankly. It's all very aimed at women. And women feel very comfortable talking about emotions, talking about feelings, talking about all of this kind of woo-woo stuff, right? A lot of people feel that, but men often feel disconnected from that kind of language. And I suspect that they feel like it's an obligation to go and see somebody because she wants it, And if it's going to be better and if it's going to make it better for them and she's going to feel better, then he'll go along with it. I mean, I know when I went into therapy years ago with my then-husband, it was very much on my instruction. It was like, look, we've got some problems. We need to do this. We went and saw a Relate counselor. It was a total disaster. Total disaster. Like, similar to your experience, like, could not have been. I often reflect on that experience and think, we went for 6 sessions and she could have told us in 1 or 2 that it was never going to work, right?

And I don't even think that, because I see the reason that you want there is because you want connection, but one of you wants to talk about your feelings and the other one wants to feel, you know, that we can't just talk about feelings. We have to feel each other. And I, as I say, emotions can't just be talked about, they need to be emoted. And that's where men are. Men take action. Women talk about love. Men make love. Yeah. So where is, where is the gap for that? So even while I was studying therapy and I had to do my practicum and all that stuff, and you have to record it, so I'm working with a couple and I can't stand listening to them anymore. I just can't stand listening this. And I'm like, okay, stop. And I had them stop and connect with my huddle, which is literally just, uh-huh, like, till they can feel each other, till they're synchronized. Because that's what our— that's what our systems are really craving, is connection, synchronicity. And then they just— oh, you could feel it connect. I had them doing things like saying their names back and forth, and then they're like crying. And my supervisors are watching this going What is this? And I said, that's what connection actually looks and feels like when you shut up. Shut up. That's right. Uh-huh. You're literally keeping it in your brain. He's literally trying to make sense, figure out words. You've got feeling charts. He's trying to pick the right word. And the therapist becomes the referee where I, I literally call myself a coach because I use sports vernacular. And because I literally see that you go do this, this is your strategy for the week. He's going to be doing this. This is how you're going to receive it. I have them prepared. It's literally like that. So that's how I see it. I'm literally coaching you. I'm on both of your sides. When they win, I win. That's the difference. Therapists also, studying therapy, I learned that therapists expect you to go to them for 2 years. That's 2 years before they give up or get a divorce. That's why a therapist can say, I have an opening coming up in 3 months. Is that true? I was, I was appalled.

That's appalling. That is—

I've had, I've had, I had a man who said it perfectly. He said that going to therapy was like getting a slow, expensive divorce. That's right. And so I literally just don't, you know, skip, skip it. Just skip, stop talking, do this process. I have people who've been on the verge of divorce. I turn them around, and I have a program that's 6 weeks It's— and it's 6 weeks, you are comfortable, you are back in it. You're like, wow, this has been easy. And, and that, that's it. We get into relationships to feel love, but one of us wants to feel loved and taken care of. Love means different things to each of us. One of them is I feel cared for and loved, and the other one is I make love. I feel loved when I can feel your body. So that's where that power struggle actually comes in, and we shame him for his needs instead of— no, we don't shame you for your needs. We learn how to take care of them in a way that works for both of us.

Yeah, and I see that all the time with, you know, with older women. I mean, that often when I bring up the idea that, you know, men go on a date with you and they might want to get get cozy with you quickly, um, they want to find out all this other shit about you before, before they're willing to do that. I'm like, you know, I think, you know, for a lot of men, that sexual connection is super important to them, and they want to know, is it there? Is it— is there something happening there? And, you know, they don't necessarily want to go on 10 dates to find that out.

So, you know, what I advise men to do because of that, because, you know, letting a man— letting as a woman saying to a man, okay, you can enter me so that you can feel if this will work. That's, that's a lot of entering. That's a huge, like, that, that's not enough of a test for me. Okay, does it work for you? All right, now do I get a chance? I mean, it's like, so So what I invite people to do is to see if they can be intimate, which means, can you share pleasure without poking? Can you explore whole body pleasure that leaves you wanting to come back for more? I share the same thing with 19-year-old guys, saying, if you can explore pleasure, roll around, grind, be in rhythm, pulsing, until you're laying back going, Wow. Then you come back and do that again. If you can explore whole body pleasure, then by the time you actually get to poking penetration sex, then you know it's going to keep going. But if you're just doing that poke, poke, poke, poke, the same as you did when you were 17 years old. Uh-huh. And you know, at this— in mid-age, a lot of women have pain, discomfort. So the thing that I tell men, and I have a few videos about this, the most surprising thing that men learn from me is, is that this poking in and out is their least effective move. It is causing her the most friction, and that friction isn't working for her anymore. There's not that spark. Now she's a smolder. You gotta wake up her whole body. Uh-huh.

Yeah. And speaking of that, so one of the things that I read that you said, and I'm, you know, and I really do want to explore this, is talking about what intimacy actually means. Because people use— throw that word intimacy around a lot to just talk about just sex in general, right? They use it almost as a replacement for sex, especially on social media, where as soon as you use the word sex You're shadow banned. So people often use that word intimacy, but I know for you that word has a lot of meaning versus love, intimacy, sex. What does intimacy mean in your world?

Thank you for asking. Love is love. You can love— I can love you. We can love a lot of people. We can have sex with anybody. That's biological. Sex is biology, and you know, you're not a dog, you're not a bird or bee, but intimacy is what happens when you get into a relationship, and that's the only time that happens. So the easiest explanation I have for it, when I use my sports metaphor, is when you join a team is the only time that you get to actually learn and practice sportsmanship. So in sports, sportsmanship is to the team what intimacy is to your relationship. It's the unspoken connection, the care that you have for each other, those, that sense of boundaries. Yeah. You know, I explain it like this, guys, if you were on a team, you wouldn't hang another team's poster on your wall. Yeah. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. So it gives you, when you think about it that way, that structure of thinking of it like a team, it lets people know where their boundaries are. We practice in private, but your practice in private shows how you show up in the world. If you're having a good winning team, it shows by the way you show up in the world, that confidence. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, and I suppose continuing the sports metaphor and the team metaphor is the loyalty that one has to their team, right? The wanting to, to be a, you know, to be a good player is to be somebody who's collaborative, who's, who's looking at the advantages and disadvantages of their other, you know, the other people on the team, and working out where they fit in to, you know, to not necessarily fill the, the gap, the missing gap, but to support that person to be able to be better in their role. And I think actually it's for guys especially, that's a really great metaphor because, you know, as you said, would you stick another poster on your wall? Would you actually like go play for another team on the weekend? Right? Right.

And that's why— that's exactly why I call men the team captain, because they have to be in charge of making the action happen. That's what she wants. She's a, you know, leader in the world. And he can even call a game. He'd be— you go, hey, hey, hey, it's game time and tonight's my night. But he has to make that happen. Otherwise, she's— women's brains work in lists. We'll find a billion other things to do to keep us busy, especially in relationship. Well, let me go make the bathroom pretty. Let me make this look like a Pinterest board. So he's the one who has to say, hey, we have a game tonight at 7. So that she can go all day. That's the same thing, like if you had dinner reservations. Anticipation is your best— is your best aphrodisiac. So like, that's why we have a plan. Oh, it's Wednesday night. Oh, we have a practice tonight. Saturday night is game night. Oh, whose turn is it? Is tonight my turn to receive or his turn to pick the pizza? That way you're each getting what you want. You're exploring giving your partner what they want, even if that thing is weird. I think pineapple on pizza, that crazy. But if That's what you love. I want to see you enjoy it, and I'm going to be the one to feed it to you, baby. And when you are the one sharing those experiences with your partner, it bonds you. And that, that's what I help people do. I help people get to the comfort zone, the pleasure zone, the erotic zones, the O zones, plan their championship games. And it's, it's awesome. It's so much fun. So the intimacy is what happens in the relationship. You can have, can have great sex with a stranger, but that doesn't mean that there's somebody you'd want to build a relationship with, you know.

So you talked earlier on about erectile dysfunction, which we know— I call it, I prefer to call it, by the way, unreliable erections. That's what I prefer to call it, unreliable erections.

I just say equipment failure. That's what I call it.

Yeah, I mean, I don't like the word failure just generally. I just think it's unreliable, you know, it's— you're hoping it's there. Unreliable.

It is your most unreliable, unreliable. That's literally what you're relying on. And even the NFL brings an extra football.

Yes, that's right. But we know that, we know that when it comes to sex and when it comes to older people, ED is a, is a big problem. Mismatched libidos is another problem that we spoke— I've spoken about on this show a lot, you know. And how does performance impact on, on couples' needs and wants when it comes to intimacy?

The biggest thing I see is that when it comes to intimacy and a man is dealing with erectile dysfunction, a man in a couple do not know what else to do. So they're trying to rely on pills, but then that becomes more performance pressure for him. Okay, tell me when you want it so I can perform for you. And then it becomes so performative. You better work, you better work, you better work. Nobody's having pleasure, you know. And so it impacts them because then they don't— nobody's teaching you what else to do. And there's so much else to do.— or even teaching them how to use toys, what toys to use, how to really explore, where toys are like the best part, and not the toys that you would normally think of. She— you're not trying to get her off, you're trying to explore pleasure together. So when you do it this way, it's— when you do it our way, it's endless. But it— people don't talk about it. It's his shame, where if women are having pain, you know, pain, discomfort in their private area, they talk about it. But with men, even if they're women, I hear from women who go, I want your help, I want your help, but he would kill me if I spoke to you. And that's what I see is that their shame around their own sexuality is killing men. I mean, erectile dysfunction and suicide, don't even get me started. So I have an Actual Mastery Program for men. I help men with erectile dysfunction. I have a series of exercises that I've developed that give men control. I explain it like this. Yeah, it's my hand. My hand didn't, you know, picks things up and drops things, but I learned how to draw. I learned how to write. So you can train your equipment, your body to do certain things. You can train it to get harder. So I've actually even taught these exercises to performers, but then I've also taught them how to connect in real life relationships because that's not a performance.

So Amy, it's been lovely, lovely to talk to you. And I know that we're going to get some really great comments out of this. It's been a pleasure.