They Built a 'Sex Barn' at 70: Kathy K Reveals the Secret Lives of Seniors

Listen, I love a great story. You know, sometimes, listen, I have people that are doing very hardcore things that maybe the average person won't be doing, but I think it's like super inspiring because it's like, even if you don't, you're not going to wind up as swingers like this couple, you know, there is hope that like, you know, at some point in your life, it doesn't matter how old you are, that things can completely change, that you could totally come into your own sexually, especially for women, you know, that's what I hear a lot. From is like older women who, you know, suddenly got in touch with their sexuality and like, you know, sort of fell into it and started living out their fantasies. I've heard very extreme stories, and I love those stories.

Hi, this is Suzanne Noble, and you're listening to Sex Advice for Seniors. And as some of you may know, I am currently in Thailand I've recently moved to a little town called Hua Hin, which is full of old retired people, very leathery, very brown, very tattooed. And I'm here today all the way from New York with Kathy Kaye, who like myself is another podcaster. Although I think, Kathy, you've been doing it for a lot longer than I have.

I've been doing it longer than most people. And I think I literally pinch myself every day because somewhere along the line it became like the thing to do. And I'm just very lucky that I was like at the start of it. I mean, I did it like 11 or 12 years ago at this point. And so, you know, back then it was— I had an audience already then, so it would have been way harder to grow my show now. I feel for everybody now because, you know, everyone's doing it. But when I started, nobody was really. So it was— but, you know, it was— so it was easier to build an audience and grow and all that kind of good stuff. But it's great that everyone's doing it now and people are listening, you know, because I find that especially when it comes to sex, right? Like, that's how people are learning nowadays, you know. In the beginning, it was like a lot of guys listening to me, but now I have so many couples, uh, emailing me like, we listen together, we stop, we pause it, we talk, like that kind of stuff. So I think that, like, you know, podcasts like yours, like mine, and all of them out there, they're really helping people, and that's where people are getting their information.

Yeah, definitely. And for those of you who don't know, Cathy started out by, um, talking about the sex lives of people who did not want to reveal themselves, just like Kathy, who has always remained anonymous. She actually put out a book of all of these confessions called Secret Anonymous— Secretly Anonymous Confessions. And today we're going to be talking about some of the more outrageous confessions that you've heard over the years. But I'm specifically, of course, interested in older people, because when it comes to older people, of course, Everybody just thinks we don't fuck, right? They just think that we don't have sex, that if we do, it's like very missionary. But of course, you've heard otherwise. So what are some of the stories?

Listen, I love a great story. You know, sometimes, listen, I have people that are doing very hardcore things that maybe the average person won't be doing, but I think it's like super inspiring because it's like, even if you don't, you're not going to wind up as swingers like this couple, you know, there is hope that like in the, you know, at some point in your life, it doesn't matter how old you are, that things can completely change, that you could totally come into your own sexually, especially for women. You know, that's what I hear a lot from is like older women who, you know, suddenly got in touch with their sexuality and like, you know, sort of fell into it and started living out their fantasies. I've heard very extreme stories. I, and I love those stories because I have, I like to show everybody everything that exists out there. And, you know, the truth is people in their 60s, 70s are still having sex. And my callers are having the best time ever. And I'm like, why not? Not, you know, go out that way. Like, I just had a couple, and they're one of my favorite couples, uh, and they met and they were vanilla people, married forever to other people, and then both got divorced, or their, their partners, uh, passed, right? And they met up on Facebook and they got together. They're literally swingers. Never would they— had they ever done anything like that. And they even set up a sex barn in their backyard, and they're having the time of their lives. And they— if they look back, they, they'd bet a million dollars that that would never be anything that they're doing, you know. And That's one story. I've heard the story of like couples that have been married forever that were in sexless marriages and just weren't doing anything. You know, it happens to a lot of people. And then at a certain age, you know, 60s, in their 60s, in their 70s, where they just, you know, for one reason or another, really completely changed the game in the bedroom. A lot of times it's just about communication, right, and talking about things and finding out things about your partner that a lot of times these people had never known about, right? And it unlocks something. And I think, you know, listen, I'm over 50, I get it. Like, at a certain age, you I don't give a shit what people think anymore. So I think it's a lot of times, you know, people find themselves more so when they're older because it's just like you don't care anymore, right? You don't— it's not the shame. You don't care what society thinks. And I think that especially women are able to sort of get in touch with parts of themselves that they weren't able to before. So, you know, someone in the relationship starts a conversation. What do you like? What do I like? Or they throw something out there and, you know, the next thing you know, they're doing my show, they're hotwafing or whatever. And I have like, I actually like stories that aren't so hardcore too, right, because I feel like they're even more relatable where they're not maybe doing those kinds of things, but they're just living out their fantasies and using sex toys and just getting it on all the time. And they have that spark back that they haven't had for so long. And I think those stories are super inspiring. And that's real life. And that's what my book is here to say, right, that, you know, this is stuff that people do behind closed doors, whether you want to know, believe it or not, you know, and yes, older people are doing it too, which I love. I have Crimson is one of my favorite stories in the book. The book is called Strictly Anonymous Confessions: Secret Sex Lives of Total Strangers. Now, I tried to pick like 17 of the different topics that I talk about my show because I talk about all kinds of things— hotwifing, girls on tube, gangbangs, you know, swingers and stuff. And there's a lot of people over 50 in my book. Crimson is one of my favorite episodes because she's like, you know, went from being vanilla to being like a MILF porn star. And she's literally 60s or 70s. She was a nurse. Her story is so great. And if you hear her speak, she's like a ray of sunshine. She's this lovely woman who, you know, sort of came into her own way later, started to have sex in a way that she never did and like really fully embraced it. And now she's living the craziest life. You wouldn't believe it. And she couldn't be happier.

Yeah. I mean, look, I, we in the UK recently, we had a story about a woman. I think she was 70 and she'd been She hadn't had sex for like decades, and now she's an escort, and she's absolutely loving it. Yeah, right. She's like, I wanted to reach out to her. Yeah, she's, she's mad. And I know a lot of the people that follow me, especially on Facebook, because, uh, that's where a lot of these, uh, alternative kind of people tend to go. They're like, oh, Suzanne, why don't you go on OnlyFans? And you know what, Yeah, and I, I do. I'll tell you what, I mean, although I don't really want to go on OnlyFans, I suspect like you, like you told me before the show about what happened to you about getting pulled off of YouTube, and you know, it's really difficult sometimes when you're a person of whatever age talking about sex, especially things like reviewing sex toys and things on social media platforms. You know, I have communities standards, warnings, all sorts of stuff. And sometimes I think about these platforms and I'm like, you know what, like, I could just do my sex toy reviews and people would just be able to watch them. Whereas now every time I do one, I think, oh, I wonder if this is going to get pulled by community standards. So, you know, sometimes I think we do this kind of stuff only because there's no other way to do it. Like, you know, it's—

yeah, yeah. At least with— because I've sort of tried all the platforms and I always— it's sad, but I sometimes feel like I always am sleeping with one eye open. Like, I have a Discord with 6,000 people on there, and there's a whole new thing coming with Discord that everyone's been telling me about yesterday. Like, all of a sudden Discord is doing that thing where it's not just 18+, you got to click a button, you have to actually show ID and everything. They are locking stuff down. I started Patreon. I have over 2,500 paying people on my Patreon. I built it for many years since 2020, and somewhere along the line they were like, oh, you need to be 18+. The minute I did that, everything changed. I had to lock everything down. At the end of the day, though, I will say, as an adult content creator and having to deal with this stuff, I'd rather be— have stuff locked down, do it that way, than have to worry about them sort of canceling everything. Like when you were on Instagram, YouTube, TikTok, there's no way to sort of have any kind of age verification, and that's the problem, you know. I remember being on TikTok and putting my stuff up, and listen, I have a young child. Like, I kind of was like, I don't feel like my stuff is appropriate here. Like, anyone could kind of find it, you know what I mean? It's not— it's a, it's a different kind of platform, you know. So I am going to start a new TikTok but keep it very clean. And I like when things are locked down and done the right way. And we have to, as a community, be happy that at least they're not shutting us down totally and they're trying to make it work so that adults that are having fun and want to have consensual great sex and get educated and even get turned on or all that kind of good stuff, there's still places that you could do that, you know.

Yeah, I mean, it's, it is, that is a really good point. I just find that sometimes it's, it's quite frustrating. But going back to the Sex Over 60 stuff, I mean, I noticed that you and I, you and I shared an early experience. I read about the, that when you first started your podcast, one of the ways that you started was through the personals of Craigslist. And of course, that was— and that was what started me on my sexual journey, actually, in my 40s, was back in those days when the personals were still around on Craigslist. That was like a gold mine for finding kinky, wacky people. It's just—

oh my God. Well, listen, Suzanne, before I start interviewing you, because that's what my natural instinct is to now start I'm like asking you a million questions, but I need to sell my book. I'm going to make sure you need to come on my podcast and I need to get your story. But I always say like Craigslist was definitely the gift that kept on giving. It was literally the only— I got all my callers, like all my— now every— I just get emails. I get tons of emails every day. I have a million people, but literally before years I had to go to the Craigslist personal, and I didn't go there on purpose. I went there because it was the only free place to go.

And then Yeah, we do.

Yeah. And then it was like, but I didn't want to do a show about sex. I just wanted a regular advice column, like a Dear Abby, like call me about anything. I'm like that, that type of girlfriend that wants to pick apart your problem and try to help you. So I just wanted a regular show. But when I went on to the personal section on Craigslist, you know what's on there. Like, I just put up my, my ad on every single category, and I literally, the first 5 shows Episode 1 through 5 are the first 5 emails I got, and literally I taped them all in the same day with my co-host. And honestly, they were like the most interesting stories I had ever heard. And I— and that's how, like, I didn't have the name of my show. I didn't know that I was going to change people's names. I didn't know it was going to be anonymous. All of that came after I started taping people and started realizing like, oh, there's something here. And it's like pretty great, you know, because keeping people anonymous, finding them on Craigslist, they were able to tell me stuff that they wouldn't otherwise. Tell anybody else, you know. So it was kind of like perfect.

Yeah, I've still got a folder on my Gmail called toe suckers.

Well, listen, I have two tiers on my Patreon, cross-dressing and pantyhose people, because like, that's what I— that's when I really learned about fetishes, because I would go looking for people on there, right? I probably saw your ads, or I don't know what you were looking for, but I was just looking for a guest. So I started to see like patterns, you know, and like there was a lot of guys that liked pantyhose, like who knew? There was a lot of guys that were into feet and cross-dressing, and I really— it was like, you know, I really got educated on what was going on. You know, back then there was no word for hotwifing, but like, I found a guy on there that was into that. I didn't realize that's what it was, and he was like one of my most downloaded guests. I learned over time about, you know, things that people were really into that I would have had no idea. And Craigslist was the place you could like sneak in there and kind of get a feel for what was really going on too.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, that's the thing, is, is Craigslist showed me, and clearly showed you, and, and I continue to, you know, let people know that like the, the shit that goes on in your brain, some of the kinky shit about whether it's feet, toes, shoes, pantyhose, knickers, you know, like there's, there's thousands of people out there like of all ages that are into this. Like I know that a lot of people live in— I spent— it's kind of sad that Craigslist isn't around anymore because I think there is this sense of people do feel, especially older people, if they've never realized any of these fantasies, they can think, am I a weirdo? Am I just like the only one who, who thinks this is really kinky and fun? And it's like, no, no, there's thousands of them.

And isn't that the great thing about— I mean, I know a lot of people will be like, oh, the internet's terrible for all these reasons, but one of the positive things about the internet is it really helps people realize they're not alone. Like, if you're a narcissist and want to think you're so unique and interesting and you're the only one, like, that— the internet's not great for you because you go online and you realize, you know, there's so many other people like you regardless of what you're into. And that's why I do like a Fetish Fridays episode. Uh, I do like 7 episodes a week now. I used to— I started with 1, but now I do 7. And I always kept my Fetish Fridays because literally with fetishes, like, it is true that those guys live with that most of the time. Those things rear they had a very young age and they live in their little brains tortured feeling abnormal and weird and those are the ones that I get when they call into my show. I always get the thank you emails like, oh my God, that was so great to talk about it. And, and talking about age and seniors, like, I do find when I get the guys with the fetish on that are, you know, older and from the generation where they didn't grow up with the internet and they were so much more stigmatized, that around 50 years old, I would say a lot of these guys with the fetish that have been living a secret life are just fucking done with it. They want to do it anymore. It's like, that's the time where they're just like, I don't, you know, they want to unload, they want to be honest with their partners. They don't want to carry that along because it's hard to live with that kind of a thing forever, or live a double life, you know. And I find though that a lot of these older guys that had fetishes, or even the ones with kinks, or the guys that are into guys, you know, and keeping it a secret, or maybe never went there and have always fantasized about it, by the time they're like 50 and they're calling into my show, they're like, they just want to do it. They're like, they're not, you know what I mean? Life's short. They got that memo and they just want to live it up. And most of the time, that's what they do.

Yeah, I agree with you. I mean, and I think there's no, that's what I always say to people is like, desire does not retire. You know, there is no like end date. There's no like birthday that you, that you hit and all of this stops. You know, you can realize whatever fantasy you want. At whatever stage of life you want. I mean, I'm over here in the— in Thailand, and, and the pickings are quite slim. I'm a single-ish woman, you know. So I, so I went on FetLife, which I, which I joined like 100 years ago. And for anyone who doesn't know, FetLife is for people into all sorts of fetishes, and some of them are kind of quite pedestrian, right? Like might want to put on fluffy handcuffs or, or whatever, or call, call somebody daddy or whatever. And some of them are much more extreme impact play, pain, you know, all of that kind of thing. But, but basically the site itself is not really— a bit like Craigslist, actually. The site itself hasn't really been updated since about 2000. So it's quite difficult to navigate. But I did manage to have two little fun scenarios since I've been here for the past 5 weeks. So in— and I was able to realize one of my old fantasies that I hadn't, I hadn't put out there for a while because I was like, you know what, I haven't done that one in like 20 years. I wonder if I did that one now in my 60s how that would be. So I just like put it out there and some young guy answered and it was like, yeah, I'd love to do that. That sounds like really hot. And, you know, and we did. And it was, and I get that. So that was good. But you know, I always think to myself, shit, you know, I'm in my 60s and I'm still able to do this, which always makes me happy. 'Cause there is a part of me sometimes it's like, oh, maybe no one's gonna respond and you're gonna be all alone with the little fantasy in your head. But you know, there was so many people that I met recently kinky, kink events and stuff that were just putting out what they liked, and I found that so encouraging. So, you know, for anybody listening, like, you can be kinky at whatever age you are.

Oh yeah, and I think that, you know, what you're into sexually isn't static. Like, it, it grows and it changes, and I think that people get kinkier and, you know, more open to different things as they get older. I have plenty of people on my show who are doing things that they, like I said, would swear that they would never believe their 40-year-old self would have been doing. So you just never know. Just because you weren't into something when you were 25, it doesn't mean you're going to feel that same way when you're 65. Because I do think that big thing about like all the shame and stuff that society puts on people when it comes to sex, like people just take sex so seriously and like they're so judgy about it. I've never understood that. I was always very super open-minded. So I'm never talking to somebody in here because I'm a very vanilla person. I don't do any of the things that people call into my show about, but I'm never like surprised or I don't think any of it is weird. And I don't understand why other people give a shit, you know. I don't know, I don't know where that comes from, um, but I think, and I think that it's great. And I just know that a lot of times when people get older, they don't, they don't have that pressure anymore. They don't care, like I said. And that's, that's why they're getting in touch with it and realizing they're into things that they never thought that they were even, you know. And maybe it was there, it was suppressed, I don't know what it is, but, uh, it's there and all you got to do is access it.

Yeah, well, somebody I interviewed a few months back said that there are 3 key stages of one's life where their sexual blueprint, if you like, is formed. And one of them is age 7, and the other is 14, and the other is 21. And she was asking me, you know, where I was at each of those stages of life. And it was interesting to reflect on those because I lived in 3 different places in those at those three stages of life. And in those different places, I was always an outsider. So it's sort of like I could see sometimes how these things are formed. And I spoke to a friend of mine who's got a foot fetish, and I asked him where it came from. And he was talking about crawling on the floor, and his mother was asking her— him to rub her feet. And so he started to associate that with like giving pleasure and stuff. And, and so it was— he had reflected on it. And I think sometimes people are able to identify very specific moments in their life where a sexual feeling was triggered, even if it seemed like not, you know, not natural or, you know, not obvious. It's just something happened that triggered it. And normally it's at one of those ages. Especially at the young age. But you say that you're a vanilla person, and that I find that really interesting.

Well, I just mean, like, listen, I'm taught— like, there's a girl in my book who literally is like, Casey's been in over 50 gangbangs. I mean, that's like, that's a real story, a real person. I know her very well. She's a regular girl. She's actually very quiet. You would never know that this is what she does for a living. And I was very interested in her gangbang facts. But like, I've never like been to a swinger club. I've never, you know, I've had some threesomes with women and guys, but like never have I done, like, any of this stuff. But I will say that after talking to so many people, that's what changed in me, that I'm just more open to stuff that I never thought I would be after talking to so many people who have, like, you know, sort of went there and lived out their fantasies instead of just kept them in their head. So it gave me the courage to be like, oh yeah, the next time I have a relationship, maybe I will do this and that and that, you know, I, you know, I was never somebody that ever wanted to grow up and get married and be with the same guy my whole life. I always had tons of lovers. I was considered slutty when I was younger, but that's just because I fucked guys without, you know, marrying them or dating them, you know. In my time, that was slutty. Like, it's so crazy that I was considered slutty considering what my guests do and what I was doing, but it was because I wasn't sort of traditional and I could fuck people without liking them, you know what I mean? And just, just for the pleasure of it and all that kind of stuff. But I was like, oh, I'd never have two guys at one time, but it was like a fantasy, but I would never do that in real life. But like, Now, at my older age, and after talking to people and feeling a different way and being a different person than I was when I was younger, I feel like I totally would do that. Why not? You know what I mean?

Yeah. Listen, babe, if you've never done MMF, you don't know. I spent 2 years doing nothing but that.

So, oh my God, I can't wait to have you on my show. You could have been in my book. I love, you know, I have different categories, so I really made sure to have, like, if I had, I have another guy named named Kyle, who turned into us, you know, who got into swinging after he got divorced. And he was one of my most hardcore guests, and this was the guy that was like living it up in his, you know, late 50s, 60s. And he lives in Florida, which is like the mecca of the swinger world, right? I mean, you want to get into swinging, go to Florida.

Florida is so nuts. I, I was on a holiday visiting a friend in Fort Lauderdale, and I, I said to her, this place is insane. I have never seen so many horny people in one place as in Fort Lauderdale. It was like happy hour was just an excuse to just hook up. It was just, just bizarre. Yeah.

And why not? Like, my couple that's like in their 70s and stuff, it's like, I just really, I really just say like, if anyone's judging them for like swinging or like, you know, how could you? Like, what, like, what's wrong with it? Like, literally they're just having the best time of their lives. They are so in with each other, you know, and after having partners for such a long time that passed, you know, which is devastating. How could they live, right? They, they're living like a whole other life and they're just having fun. And why not? When I was younger, I saw a show on HBO. It was called The Lifestyle, and it was about swingers. And this was like in the '80s or '90s, you know, many, many, long, long time ago. And they did this thing where they followed like a bunch of swingers over a year to see like who made it, who didn't. And I just remember watching that show and being like, oh my God, when I'm like like 60, I want to be a swinger, you know. I always felt like, oh, I remember one time I was talking to one another content creator, she was like, why are you gonna wait till you're 60, Kathy? Why don't you start now? Like, why, why wait till then? I'm like, I don't know, but everything I kind of throw out there becomes a reality. So I'm like, you know, I think that's on my horizon. Why not? You know, I always felt like it was kind of like evolved of people to sort of, especially in a relationship, get to the point where they're secure enough in their relationship and every other aspect that they don't have to feel any kind of ownership when it comes to sex, right? And you could just still do all the thing and have all the fun, but still be closer. And that's what I'm here to say. A lot of times what I say about my show is I am not trying to tell people that everybody out there should be non-monogamous and live in that world and have gangbangs and, you know, have MMFs all the time. But what I'm here to say, and this is what I think is important and is not out there, is that you can do it and not only survive, your relationship can thrive. Most of my couples that do it are happier and closer than they've ever been because of it. And that's what's important to know, because I listen to many mainstream shows, and I'm listening to fucking Dr. Drew and all these assholes, you know, just spewing out information without knowing anything about the world, saying, oh, the minute you open up, it just ruins everything. And that's not true. I've talked to over 1,300 people. I've been doing this for 11 years, so I feel like I kind of have some data that Dr. Drew doesn't have. And The data is you can open your relationship up and have an ethically non-monogamous consensual marriage. And like I said, not only can it work, it will bring you closer. Not that it's for everybody, but people do it and they do it successfully all the time. Okay. And that's what I think a lot of people don't want to believe because a lot of people are living like in that monogamous world, you know, secretly cheating and doing everything that they can because they don't believe that this is a possibility. But it is. And I think the younger generation, which is great, is living much more in that world where they understand that maybe that's a little bit more of a realistic way to live with the same person for 70 years, you know what I mean. I never could imagine being with one person for my whole life. It was never appealing to me.

Having done the swinging thing for a decade or so, then, you know, and I did, I did it mainly as a single-ish person, but yeah, I did meet a lot of couples that like, like you said, were super happy, and I think, you know, the thread that runs through all of this and it is just about communication. It's— yeah, it runs through every show that I've done, which is that some of the things that the people that are in alternative lifestyles are just better at is just communicating their desires, what they like, what they don't like, and being really clear with their partner. So their partner wants to see them happy, you know. It's like they know— they— there's a lot of trust there, and there's a lot of great communication that goes on, probably a lot more communication that goes on than in monogamous relationships. I mean, one of the things I've noticed is that people that come into the lifestyle later in life, often it's as a result of, like you say, long-held fantasies, desires, things that they wanted to try out and haven't been able to. Sometimes I look at younger people in the lifestyle and I think, where are you gonna end up? If you start at the top of the mountain, you're doing all of this stuff that it took me decades to get into and feel mature enough to be able to handle. And these young people, whilst I find it really admirable that they're experiencing all these different kinds of relationships and different kind of sexual dynamics and everything, I think, God, you know, for me, I was, I was kind of a quite vanilla person for a long time until I wasn't. And it And it was quite nice to discover that and then realize that I still had another 30 or 40 years or however long I wanted to carry on doing this stuff for, that I could explore this. I'm not sure if I'd done it when I was younger, whether now I wouldn't be a vanilla person.

Yeah, you don't know. I mean, really, you don't. I just think that like all the labels and all the different kinds of things, I think if they were available when I was younger, I would have probably felt a lot more at ease with who I was because I didn't really fit into any boxes when I was growing up. It was either you were married and you were having kids or you were single and you needed to be married, you know? And I didn't want to be in any— like, you know what I mean? I was doing whatever the fuck I wanted. I never wanted to be in the marriage box. And that was like odd and weird. And I want it— sometimes I dated two guys at the same time and they would always know about each other. I did whatever the fuck I wanted. And, you know, I feel like if I would have had those labels, all these things that everyone hates, these labels. But I feel like in your 20s, you know, if you really remember back to your 20s, 20s. It's— by the time you're 50, you don't need a fucking label. But in your 20s, it's like really great to sort of have a sense of like, oh, I belong and there is a place for me. And without that, it's like really confusing. So I think it's like super helpful and they could find the place. But about the communication, what you're saying, that is definitely the key. And I think, like I say this all the time to the vanilla couples, I'm like, you don't even need to open up your relationship, just start talking about anything. That's the problem, and that's what's lacking in vanilla relationships, is conversation about anything. You get on Groundhog Day, you have kids, you're barely talking to each other. And what the, the reason why communication with swingers and these non-monogamous relationships are so high is because you have to talk. It's, it starts with just the having to talk because you have to talk about your rules, you have to discuss your problems, you have to be open and you start to communicate and that's when they start to realize like, oh my God, all this over talking about the relationship and the sex and then they have no one else that they could go tell that they just had like were in an orgy last night so they have to talk about it together, you know, and that's what brings them so much together. So you don't even need to go out and do all this stuff. You just need to start fucking talking to your partners. And that's what's like lacking in a lot of even vanilla relationships. So talk about your hobbies, you know, because these people are talking because they have to talk and communication is very important in that world. And that's what these couples are doing that the other couples aren't. And that's what ultimately is making them feel so much closer than they've ever been together. And they're like, you know, been married since the dawn of time.. And that's amazing to see.

Yeah, I completely agree with that. And I think, you know, that requirement to constantly check in and make sure the other is okay and is what keeps people close and bonds them, deepens their relationship. And I see lots of people really struggle with that. And I think that's where some of these lifestyle people have really got it right, even if sometimes— and I, you know, I have friends who poly, and sometimes I'm like, fucking hell, there's so much communication with you guys.

Oh, I don't know, I get a headache with poly people. I mean, my head starts to hurt. But I, you know what I think I found with poly people? Because I've had them on my show, and the last poly girl, I was like, okay, I think I finally cracked the code. You want to talk this much, like you need this kind of complication. You are that intelligent, your brain works in a certain way that you need all of this. I go crazy listening to it, it's just too much. But I believe that these people are wired to actually need that in a weird way, right? We're all different. And I think that's what it's about because they're all so complicated to me, but it works, right? In some way. I don't know.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, look, I think it's really admirable. It's just not for me. Like, it's just not for me. Like, I have a certain amount of communication that I'm good with. And then beyond that, it's like too much talking. Can we just get down to business? This, you know.

I don't, I don't, I don't need to like tell you every single thing, but I do find, I do find on my show, and I love these episodes where I do have these older guys, and I think a lot of times it's like really great when the men communicate more so than they ever have because they do have things come up for them in the lifestyle that they never would have believed, and they wind up having to talk about it, you know, like insecure feelings, feelings of jealousy feeling vulnerable. And I have these guys tell me, like, I never thought I'd feel that way, and I never talked about this to anyone, so I feel sort of seen. Like, this one guy recently, it was like the most amazing episode. I was like, oh my God. And then I had like 10 other guys email me that felt the same way. He said, like, I never felt seen by my partner as much as I did now because I've been able to be so vulnerable. Because there were vulnerable moments in that world. There can be. Just because it doesn't matter how professional you are at being open. I mean, just some days you might be jealous or something comes up, you know, and you have to talk about it. And guys do too. And when they start opening up in ways, like I said, by being vulnerable, men, you know, that never have before, that's like a huge game changer for them.

Yeah, yeah, completely. And let's face it, I think it's quite sexy, you know, for a guy to just be able to do that.

It's hot. Oh my God, that's what all of us women are just dying to get that deep with our guys and they never want to, you know what I mean? Like, that's what we all want as women. And the guys are so, you know, petrified. We won't see them as men. But I think that, you know, that's the real men that eventually get there. And but I do think that that's— that guys start to get more open like that when they're older, especially if you create that space for open communication. And if your guy and a man can open up that way, it's helpful for him. And, you know, and it only makes his girl, like you said, be into him 10 times more.

Yeah, totally. I totally agree. Kathy, I could talk to you for hours. I know.

Well, you're going to be on my show and I'm going to talk to you for an hour on my show. I'm going to send you the link when we get off. Okay.

Oh, I'm so excited. It's been wonderful to talk to you and everybody that's listening. Of course, Kathy's got 7 podcasts a week, which makes my one podcast a week look absolutely pffft. I feel like I need to up my game now, but I'm just trying— I'm trying to do too many other things. Kathy Kay, you're a star. Thank you so much for coming on Sex Advice for Seniors.

Oh wait, can you just put a link to my book in the description? So if anyone wants to get it, it's available like on, you know, on Amazon or anywhere. And you don't have to put a link to my podcast, just to the book. And it's also available in an ebook. Audiobook will be out soon, but ebook or regular thing. And so just let people— like, just put that link in the description if you can. To add to the book?

No worries! Of course I will do that— I will always do that.

All right thanks, and I'm going to send you the link to sign up for my show okay?

Perfect! Thanks!

Alright talk to you soon Suzanne this was fun bye!