Why Modern Dating Feels So Broken (And What Apps Get Wrong)

Hi, I'm Suzanne Noble, and you are listening to Sex Advice for Seniors. And today I'm with someone who isn't— you're not quite a senior, but I just couldn't resist taking advantage of the opportunity to talk to a fascinating woman that I met about 6 months ago when I was visiting Las Palmas in the Grand Canaries. And I'm here again 10, just for a week. And that's this whole story in itself that I'm not going to go into. But anyway, I, I'm here with Mo, and who runs, um, is it okay to say that you run a co-work space?

Absolutely.

Here, a new co-work space in Las Palmas. So, so there you go. She's 48, I'm 63, and we are both in the dating world, in the dating world, and we were both talking about the fact that the world of online dating now, it's no secret, has become a big bloody challenge. So welcome, welcome to our little corner of the universe. How's things going for you then in that online dating world?

Suzanne Noble Noble, thank you for having me. First of all, yes, I'm not that senior, but I can tell you stories you will not believe. So online dating world. You remember when we met for the first time that I told you that I'm over it?

Yes, you did.

Sucks. The point is, nature has its calling, and I'm not talking about the loo, I'm talking about the rest. So I'm finally back on one of those dating platforms, and I regret it so much, but still I'm there. So yeah, let's talk.

Yeah, I mean, my My desire to meet someone combined with what I see as the problem with dating apps has led me to take a different route than most, which most people think I'm nuts. But essentially I've been chucked off quite a few of these dating apps. I don't even know why, to be honest. I think, I think I was trying to promote a singing gig or something I did. But anyway, I decided what I was going to do. Was actually just ignore this sort of dating aspect and just go for the sex aspect. Because, because for me, mostly I have my emotional needs met by my best friend who happens to be male. So a lot of my requirements for a relationship are kind of being met by a guy who my friends call my, my platonic marriage partner, right? But I want to have sex. So I go on these really old swinging sites that I mean, they're so old. They haven't been updated since like 1996. They've got, they've got the worst interface. They don't really do, they don't do swiping. Like there's none of that stuff. Like literally, do you remember back in the old days of dating, you had to read profiles? Because yes, because there was no swiping situation, right? And for me, the swiping is problematic because it just, it's so quick and you don't really get the flavor of the person. And that's for me where the problem really starts.

Honestly, swiping. Yeah. I mean, in a picture you see hopefully at least the best moment of a person willing to share with the outside world. So they try to look good and some try too hard. So it's even worse. Let's talk about filters, shouldn't we?

Yeah, of course, filters.

So, so if you think women are using those filters alone, you are so wrong. If I see pictures of men where I say, okay, guy, there where the blur is was supposed to be a nose, I'm searching. Um, and it isn't fun. It's really not fun to see these faces because if you do not age well, okay, this happens, but reality will tell anyway when you meet finally. But this is the next point. To get to meet someone is already a challenge.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. And, and there are definitely people who are already in relationships who are just using these platforms to create some sort of a connection with a person, and literally all they want to do is text.

Yes.

I mean, I'm very familiar with that, and I'm also familiar with just saying to people after one or two exchanges, that's it for me. Like, I don't, I won't because I can, I, firstly you get the dopamine hit, right? When you see someone who's attractive, whether or not they really look like that is one thing. But then of course they, they respond to you. You get that little dopamine hit. Oh, oh, this could be good. So then you're going back and forth like a tennis match. And ultimately you just start getting addicted to this response pattern, which for me is like really not healthy because once I get into a situation where I'm, I'm waiting for these texts to come through, I know that that's not good for me.

No, because you are relying on it and put your effort into this instead of into the right person in the real world. So no, what bothers me the most, honestly, is that guys if they are guys, I'm certain, um, text you.

Yeah.

And assuming by pictures they see, consider, uh, to text you in a specific way. So I switched pictures to look less, uh, needy. I would say it like this.

So, um, what is a needy picture look like?

I can describe a needy picture. Obviously people thought I must be needy because since I changed this, I took this picture off I haven't received at least this bottom line, low-level requests anymore. Maybe. Well, I had a bikini picture.

Okay. So we're talking the cleavage picture.

Yeah. Yeah. But it was, it was a nice one. It was a nice one. It wasn't revealing or something. It was just a nice bikini picture. Because there we have the next point, buying the cat in the sack, as the German saying means, I do not buy anything I haven't seen before.

Yeah.

So, stating in my profile, please do not lie about your age, please be single, and also please only use recent pictures not older than half a year. So do I. And in the end, I'm 48. I look a bit younger, at least everybody tells me. I don't know if they want to be nice, I don't know. But in the end, um, I am quite open about my age. I don't use filters and I don't hide my so-called flaws, which are no flaws in my opinion because they talk about my life.

Yeah, yeah.

And my body is my body. But it led to people saying stuff like, hey, hello, na, what are you looking for? Sorry, it was in German. So yeah, it's an introduction in Germany and I wanted to be creative. And was typing something like, I'm looking for, I don't know if you know Kinder Schokolade?

Yes, yes.

Surprise eggs.

Yes, yes, yes.

So we have had a very old commercial where you had 3 things coming. So something exciting, something to play with, and chocolate. 3 things at one copy.

I remember this commercial.

So I don't know what it was in English, but in German it was quite famous. So I tried. Texting, being creative.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, and whilst I was texting it, he just wrote, "A new dick to ride, baby." And I thought, okay, fuck you.

Oh God.

Sorry for swearing, but honestly, this level.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

In reality, nobody would use that.

No.

So you do not go to a stranger and say, "Are you looking for a new dick to ride, baby?" You don't do that.

I know. And I think, and I'm You know, I get that on my Facebook page as well. And I'm always surprised that, that when men are leaving me comments that are, that are just, you know, they're just crude, right? They're just really crude. And I just think, I don't know what your expectation is. Whereas, you know, like on the flip side, right, a swinging site where you go on a swinging site to have sex, like, you expect to talk about sexual things, okay? Because that's why you're there. You're there to talk about sexual things. Generally, when you're talking about sexual things, you might talk about the kind of fantasies that you have, what you're interested in, and inevitably there's a dick pic because that is also partly why you're there is to go, nice dick, not, not nice dick. Of course, the thing is that the dick pic is usually the only pic on those sites. And then you have to ask for the face pic, which cracks me up because I just think to myself, I don't know what woman except if you're in like a glory hole, is just there to just like be with a dick on its own, like the dick needs to come with somebody. So as much as I like and appreciate a man's penis, and I can look at it, though, that is an attractive penis. Of course, penises can be photographed in all sorts of angles, I've discovered, which make them appear much larger than they actually are. So say something.

Why?

Why?

Penis picture without something to compare to. Why do you do this? It could be a micro penis, which is not a shame. But then you have to be fair and honest.

Absolutely. Although you do get, you do get, I would say generally on these sites, the level of honesty is much higher because the reason why you're there is different. So when you are on a dating site and seeking a relationship, which is a very complex thing in my, in my view, right? Like, there's a lot of stuff that goes into a relationship. You, you, you may have a tendency to lie about all sorts of stuff that you don't want the other person to find out till much later. Whereas if you meet somebody for sex, and, and they, they rock up, right, and they say, look, I really like, I really like oral sex, right? I really like oral sex. And I really, I I don't live too far from you, and I'm free. I'm only really available on weekends because I've got a job where I, where I'm traveling a lot, or whatever. Or, you know, I'm married, but I don't ever have sex with my partner. I'm just looking for somebody for that and everything. You can make a judgment at that point, and you can just say, yeah, that works for me, or that doesn't work for me. Now, if that person, which has happened to me a number of times, turns up, they, they're generally looking like their picture, okay, the picture is always a little bit sketchy, but generally they look like their picture, but I'm not, you know, it's sex. So if they are 5 years older, whatever, it's, I'm not overly bothered, too bothered about that. And they turn up and we sit down and we have a drink to start with, and we have a laugh. And it's all, you know, it's just kind of fun. And then I think, okay, right, let's have sex. And then I go and have sex with them. That's really fun too. Then generally, I'm in a place where I'm like, I'd like to see you again. And they feel that too, because they've just gotten exactly what they came for, which is somebody nice, somebody fun, and somebody had with whom they had sex. Now, at that point, you may discover that, yeah, you, you might have deeper feelings for that person. That has definitely happened to me. And I know many circumstances where actually people have gotten together from swinging sites loads of circumstances, actually, because it's honesty.

Exactly.

And there's more honesty. I always say to people, those dating sites are just— I don't even know how you deal with them. They're just so full of—

can I say it? Yes. Shit. Yeah. Thanks. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I get asked a lot of stuff. Which is fair. I, um, you can't see me mostly, at least. Uh, I'm a mixed person. I'm a German-Caribbean mix. I have an undercut. I have a lot of tattoos. I wear piercings. Um, but I'm also in a business where people are very judgmental. I'm a business consultant my main job for international companies. So what happens is revealing a lot of tattoos.

Yeah.

Wearing piercings is— is it in English stigmatizing?

Yes, absolutely.

So yeah, then I look a bit younger than I am supposed to with my age or within my age range. And what happens in the end is, uh, I'm sort of a trophy.

Yeah, or fetishized, I would say, as well, you know, which I get as an older woman, like lots of young men who just have a fantasy about being with an older woman. And I think, you know, with you, there's probably some aspect of fetishization around the way you look, which is putting you on some sort of different level.

I have no problem with fetish at all when I want fetish. But then I am using a platform. I look fantastic in latex. I have no trouble wearing it.

Yeah.

And then I am presenting me on this level. But what happens automatically that people assume without this on official dating platforms where I do not state anything like this, yeah, that they can lick my boots, that I will— God, give them the doggy treatment and everything. Where I say, guys, Honestly, therefore you need a special service and this has a price usually for people because they provide a service that is not common. I consider that you might need this service, but I'm not providing it. So people have needs and no matter what age and assuming throwing things out to people is on dating platforms something that annoys me a lot. And this is why I do not like texting. This is why I prefer getting into communication directly, personally. Yeah, because the wipe is missing. Yes, swiping someone from the left to the right is something that is sort of a game.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's one of the key problems now with all of the dating apps is that they've tried to gamify the whole thing and it's not a game. It's— and I think the, you know, the other thing is people like yourself everyone that does this, you're investing a certain amount of hope in it, right? So, so from the very first interaction, there is a, there is an emotional response, which is, I am hopeful. I want, you know, I'm here to genuinely meet someone. So there's this constant hope, disappointment, hope, disappointment, hope, disappointment, to the point where you think, I can't deal with the disappointment anymore.

I'm absolutely—

I'm, I'm, I'm like on a roller coaster here with, with feeling like potentially this person has some— it could be interesting. And then, oh, they're 10 years older than they, than they really said they were, or their picture is old, or they're married, or they're this. And, and the level of deception now has become so commonplace. I think that people are just choosing to just remove themselves from this whole ecosystem because they're like, fuck this. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm a person. I have feelings, I have needs, I have wants. And this is not delivering anything to me that's fulfilling any of my needs or any of my wants. It's just leading to ultimately a huge amount of disappointment, which frankly is like not really the emotion that you want to be carrying around with you.

And honestly, Seeing a picture doesn't tell you anything about a person. No, the person is so much more complex. And yeah, I like to hear the voice, I like to see the movement, I like to, to, um, well, that there can be a sentence or a slight sense of the person just waving over that attracts me. Intelligence. Yeah, yeah, you can write with ChatGPT and you can detect it quite But speaking and being capable of following different sentences and flows and you think in the same directions is so much more attractive.

Absolutely.

And you cannot do this on a dating app.

Yeah.

You only can hope that you meet someone that suits optically your needs and you as well.

Yeah.

And suits in this way because dating apps are crap. They bring you in the, in the mood to consider that you are not good enough.

Yeah, yeah.

Only good-looking people get a chance because no one is looking behind.

Yep.

The picture. And if someone does, then you still cannot be certain this is a real person.

Well, that's the other thing, and that's just getting worse and worse with AI now.

Exactly. You know, And AI is a good thing because in this way to say no to— I was chatting to so many bots, you have no clue.

Really?

Yeah. Good looking guys, but I could see in the background, okay, China has made a mistake. Of course, I'm certain we do not have those "petufas" in Español, in English I'm not sure, where you plug in your—

Oh, the sockets.

Socket. Thank you. This is the word.

The socket looks different.

Yes. Oh my God. This is not a European socket. You are not here located. And if you have this socket in several pictures, I can tell that you are not here. You are lying.

Yeah, yeah.

Trust me. So, or you're too good looking because you look like from a catalog. So just take the picture. I give you this advice and run it through Google.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Do it.

Yeah, yeah. Well, that's the thing I was going to say. So, you know, I'm always for like practical solutions to problems because that's my nature is like, like you, I'm a problem solver, right? So two problem solvers together, I always think, okay, this is like a massive problem. Millions of people are wandering around the earth lonely, wanting companionship, wanting to find some connection. These apps are not delivering for anybody, or certainly for a very small percentage of the people that use them. Plus there's built-in, um, there's built-in algorithms, right? And built-in things to try and get you to go back. So as we know, if if you go on a date and you have a nice time and then you, you go back on the app because you want to read what they say, because, you know, I've done that. I was with a guy that I did meet on Tinder for quite a number of years. And, you know, I went back on the app after we'd gone on our first date because I was like, that went really well. I really liked that guy. You know, we really hit it off. And then I saw that he, he was on as well, or he, you know, we just— so of course then I thought, oh, maybe he didn't like that. Maybe Maybe he's, maybe he's back on again, swiping again to see who else is out there, right?

So not healthy. It's not healthy.

So I just like all of this. When were they last seen? Why do I need to know that? I don't want to know that because for me, that's just building in this, you know, oh, this feeling of low self-esteem, like, oh, maybe I wasn't good enough. That's why they're back on again. They were last seen 6 hours ago. What were they doing? You know, all of that. So I think there's a bunch of stuff that doesn't work. But, you know, we've gotten— and I've been doing online dating on and off since 2001, and I can tell you, back in 2000, actually, back then, there were so few people using online dating that we were freaks. But the good news about being freaks, where we were all freaks together, and I can tell you, I'm still friends with most of the people I met back then, because there were so few people on any of these. There was only— there's very few dating sites anyway.

But now, remember, Hot or Not?

Yes, of course.

It was one of my first ones. It's a really long time ago. But you got into communication and like, yeah, there was, you could go into a chat room. There was no mobile phone. You were on your computer and you could directly chat. It was some kind of exciting.

It was. Yeah. Yeah.

And yes, it's sort of what you can do on the other platforms right now, but The swiping situation, this, this causes so much damage to people. It is, it's just like next.

Well, I think you made a really good point is that Hot or Not was on desktop, right? We had to sit on our computers. We had to actually type real messages. There was no sort of, it was quite difficult to move from one to the other. It was slow and commitment. All of that required quite a lot of commitment.

Yeah.

And there was, now there's no commitment required, no commitment.

But there was also the group chat where you had the opportunity to see what the person was also texting to other people. And you got to know something of the person, the style, at least how the person writes and thinks, maybe to whom the person is also speaking. So, but in the end, it's not healthy. I would like to go out in the street sometimes, but nobody, well, I do it from time to time, being proactive and talk to someone. Since I moved here to Gran Canaria, it's even less. But, and I come from Berlin. Yeah. And well, I have the guts to go to a guy and say, hello, you know what, I like you here at the supermarket. Would you like to have a coffee? And most of them say yes, but yeah, they are already in a relationship or whatever. Yeah. But I miss this.

Yeah. Yeah.

The interaction.

Why don't we do supermarket singles nights?

I am the host of Las Palmas Single Group.

And who are you?

Yes, I am. The meeting is at 7:30 tonight, but it's off-season, so there are not too many people participating right now. But I do exactly this. I create real single meetups where real singles gonna meet.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I try to get people together again and do stuff together.

Well, I noticed that the singles nights that exist are traditionally aimed at people under 35. And once you get, you know, over 35, it becomes more difficult. And once you get over 50, it's nearly impossible. And, you know, one of the things people have asked me is, would I host a singles event? Because I've gotten so many people that just said, just, you know, you've got all these followers now, just go and host a singles event. So I'm, I am actually currently looking for a venue to do that in because with a little talk beforehand, because I do think you're right, people want to, people want to meet people in real life, they just do. And I, and everybody's looking at these dating apps as a shortcut. But the number of people that write to me and tell me that it's just not working for them at all. And I always encourage them, like, go on Meetup, you know, like, go and find a dance class. Like, you know, the worst for me.

But yes, I try to.

My friend loves bachata, so she meets people at bachata, you know, but, and I, and I've gone on, I've gone to some dance classes previously. I've not met anyone, but, you know, they are places where people can meet and, and just real, you know, try and find like real life events things where you're sharing interests, because I think that these— it's got to be faster.

And honestly, people in the beginning, when they really want to fuck you, tell you anything you want to hear.

That's true.

If you want to look behind the facade, you need to be patient.

Yeah.

And if you are really interested in dating someone for real and not just to get laid, then take your time. Yeah, yeah, because you can detect those people quite quick. If you are not willing to sleep with them directly after 2 dates, yes, they are off because it's too much effort. Then the hunting is over because they are too hungry and the prey isn't interesting anymore, and they know too much about the prey because the fantasy is something behind it.

So, um, when the prey starts thinking and talking, mostly And do you agree with the, or do you subscribe to the belief that you'll only text people for a certain amount of time and then you have to meet them face to face? Because that's, for me, that's, that's crucial. It's, I'm not going to do more than like 2 days of this without actually meeting them.

I do not have a date rule after 2 days or something, but what I say is directly, you know what, 'Let's just meet. I am a person that prefers reality over typing because my fantasy is very creative and I would like to get to know you. You cannot succeed against my fantasy version of yourself.' So that helps quite well. Everyone understands and then they are also willing to date for real. Or they already know that they are fake and then they don't want to. And then I am good because I didn't waste too much time. Yeah, absolutely.

Absolutely.

Emotional energy goes wherever you go.

Yeah, yeah. And look, you know, the bottom line is, and I've spoken about it on podcasts before, is that there are still people scamming out there. You know, there are still people trying to get— rip you off, get money off you. The guy that I did meet off Tinder went through a terrible, you know, but rather predictable circumstance where he engaged with this woman. She was way too beautiful. Like, he was quirky looking guy, wasn't traditionally handsome, but he's quite quirky looking, really quite dry sense of humor. And anyway, you know, a few years before me, he met some woman, in brackets, online. She's, you know, feeding his— all his fantasies, right?

Exactly.

He's telling her all his fantasies. She's just acknowledging all of them. Oh yes. Oh yes. Oh yes. Oh yes. Until the, would you send me the money for this? To travel, right? And he was like, what? And she went, you know, I'd really love to come and see you, but I can't afford it. And la la la. And then he realized he was being scammed.

Absolutely. And this happens quite often.

Yeah.

A friend of mine was running a TV show where they provided support for those really loving partners to travel to them on the other hand. So the TV program supported them to fly to Kenya, for example, or to Ghana, or wherever it was, or to Honolulu, to meet their so-called big love.

And was that— oh, and this was a fake? Or these were real?

Well, they could figure out themselves.

Oh, right. Okay.

So it was called Big True Love? Or something like that in German. I can't translate it.

Yeah, yeah.

It was a success show, and a lot of people were shattered because they really, really believed into this love.

Oh, it's awful. I mean, it is awful, especially, you know, if you've been alone for a long time and suddenly this too-good-to-be-true person rocks up. And, you know, let's face it, a lot of older people, you know, we're talking people in their 60s, 70s, and above, for them, this, this new world of online dating is so unfamiliar to them, and they're prime targets for a lot of these people because they're very susceptible. They are investing all this hope. And, you know, I see them all the time just, just telling me, oh, this beautiful, beautiful woman is talking. Look, let's get honest here about this.

She's 25.

She's 25. She lives in the Ukraine or Russia or wherever.

She is in the You do not think with your brain.

Exactly.

So let's keep it just like this. Yeah. On the other hand, ladies, please don't get this wrong. It works in the other direction as well.

Yeah.

So there are a lot of guys who are hoping to get saved by a wealthy white person.

Definitely.

I do not want to state any countries nor anything, but as as a mixed person myself, I have knowledge into both directions, and I can tell you it's happening everywhere. And one other thing, um, it's not bad to be classy. It's absolutely nothing wrong with having resistances. It's absolutely fine to be suspicious, and you can say this. Because you are not in need. You don't need this. You want it maybe, but you don't need it. And I think some people just get abused because they think it's the last chance.

Well, yeah, I mean, the bottom line is it's something that you— you— for me, it's like the more hope you invest in the more likely you are to be disappointed. So if you go into it with a sense of fun, if you think, I might meet someone, they might be somebody I really like and want to have a relationship with, it might just be someone who turns into a friend. They might be somebody that you just go out for a coffee with and think, I don't really ever want to see this person again. But whatever happens, you've gotten out of your home, you've met someone new, you've got some new story to share with your friends. It's a good story, it's a bad story, it's a tragic story, whatever. Story it is, but it's a story.

Exactly.

And all we can do is— our life is a collection of stories. That's what I think anyway. So it's just one more story to add to the multitude of stories that you have going on in your life. And as long as you look at it like that, for me, the risk of being disappointment— disappointed is very low. And we all want to save ourselves lots and lots of disappointment. And that's all I'll say on it. Because we usually do this for 30 minutes.

I shut up at this point. Thank you for having me.

Oh, thank you. It's been wonderful. And don't give up on love. Don't give up on love. It is out there for everybody. It just might not be out there on Tinder.