Why Women Really Hire Male Escorts | ft. George Goulburn

Most all of my clients are women. And so they are in certain circumstances, but like you were just saying, they're very different to men seeking out female escorts. They don't just want to hook up and get their rocks off. And that's because women don't want to come in and just have a 10-minute session and go. They want connection. They want to Be seen, be heard.

Hi, I'm Suzanne Noble, and you're listening to Sex Advice for Seniors. Have you ever wondered what it would be like to hire a male escort? I know I have from time to time when I get a bit frustrated. Most recently when I was in Southeast Asia, I actually did think to myself, I I wonder if these sorts of people exist out here, because there's certainly a lot of women that do this sort of activity in Southeast Asia, but not so many men as far as I know. But I'm with a guy today who is a 50— he says he's 50-something— straight male escort all the way in Australia called George Goulburn. George, welcome to Sex Advice for Seniors.

Thank you so much, Suzanne Noble. It's such a great pleasure to be here. I can't look— can't wait to, to, uh, to get into this with you.

Yeah, so do you know, it's funny because this show actually took off off the back of a film called Good Luck to You, Leo Grande.

I love that film. I, I encourage so many people to watch it. It's superb. Emma Thompson is amazing in it.

She is, but for those who don't know, it's about a 61-year-old woman who, after a very unsexually satisfying marriage, has, following the death of her partner, decided that she wants to explore sexual pleasure and hires a young male escort to help her with this task. And I was 61 at the time that that film came out. She was 61 at the time when that film was made, or she was supposed to be 61. So the media kept asking me about, you know, my sex life. And that's how this all started. I'd had it one— that point, I had one podcast that I was doing with Peter. But I'll tell you what frustrated me about that film. And I'm curious to hear your experience, is that I thought, God, this woman is paying for these sessions. And she's not having any sex. Like, for the first 3 or 4 sessions, I can't remember how long it took her till they finally got down to it, but it was, it was ages. And I just thought, do people really do that? Can they afford to just hire somebody like you and just go, yeah, let's just kind of get to know each other? Like, how does it work?

Well, the short answer is yes, they do. I found that film to be very true to life of so many of my clients. Because that film does it so well. It really tells the genuine story of what it's like. So many of my clients are in their 60s, and they've not had intimacy for a very long time. They're not ready to just jump into sex with an escort. It takes them time to build up their confidence and feel safe. And I'll come back to the word safe all the time because it's the most important aspect of what I do. And it might get them to a point where they initially might be very uncomfortable with their body. They might have situations in their past that make them not ready to be naked in front of a man. So that's— that is a genuine representation of what it's like for many women to eventually get to the point where they might choose to get naked and then explore sex. So yeah, I think it was a marvelous job. And I have many clients who would fit that mold perfectly.

Wow, that's really fascinating. Because yeah, for me, I just wanted to get— I just, I just wanted someone who would just get down to it, frankly. But this wasn't always your job, was it? You've got No. So I'm just curious, how the hell did you get started in all of this?

That's a great question, Suzanne Noble. And, you know, I've worked for 30 years in the corporate and government sectors. I've got a couple of university degrees. And so it's not the usual pivot. It's not the usual career change from the boardroom to the bedroom. And for me though, you know, I'm in my mid-50s now. This has been on my mind for around 15 years since I was about the age of 40, because that's when I came out of my last long-term relationship. And so ever since then, I've been dating like mad, like crazy. It's like an Olympic sport for me, perhaps. And that's because I'm an extrovert and I love women. I love dating. I love learning. And so over the course of all of those years, there were so many women that I would be dating who would say, I wish— where are the guys like you? Where are the guys who can hold a conversation and be interesting and interested and who will ask me questions and won't talk about their car or their property portfolio or all this boring crap? And quite a number of them encouraged me to get paid for what I'm doing. And so it was a really opportune moment a few years back when I was made redundant in the job that I was doing, which was high paid but high stress. So I took that as a bit of a sign from the universe to follow what I was destined perhaps to do, which is this work. And I just You know, I'm a big believer in manifesting. And there were, at the time, there was a former male escort in Australia here. And I must say, it's, it's legal in most parts of Australia. So what I'm doing is not controversial. I know in the States, it's very, very different. So that's why I'm very public. I'm very comfortable with what I do. And anyway, this former escort had written a book, he was doing a tour of that book and doing a lot of media. And he started, um, he shifted into the space where he was teaching men over 40 who wanted to do the work how to do the work. So it just felt like, you know, the universe provided and landed in my lap, so to speak. So I reached out, we had a video call a couple of days later, and he said to me, look, here's how much you should price, here's where you advertise, get a photo shoot, all these things. And, um, very quickly thereafter it just all came together, and that's where it began. And, you know, I'm very fortunate to have wonderful family and friends, uh, and they're comfortable with what I do, so I don't have to have any sort of shame or embarrassment of what I'm doing. And that's not the case for so many other people in this industry. So I really count my blessings. I'm very fortunate about that. And it's been a fascinating, absolutely fascinating road these last few years. And yeah, I consider it the most giving and generous and beautiful job I've ever had in my life.

Wow, amazing. And so I was going to ask about your family. So you're, you know, the fact it's legal and your family is comfortable about this. But I'm curious, you know, when we think of escorting, we always think, who are these people who hire escorts? Because certainly what the men that I know who have hired escorts, typically they do it for one of two reasons, either because it's just easy and they just think, do you know what, I don't want to go through the hassle of like having a girlfriend, having to make that kind of commitment. I just want to have sex. This is what it's for. A woman rocks up, she goes down on me, whatever goes on, right? And then the other people are people who perhaps struggle to find a partner and are sexually frustrated and think this is one way of meeting my sexual needs. And personally, I don't have any problem about escorts whatsoever, as you can probably tell. I think they do a really valuable service, and I've known several over the years, and they're amazing people, amazing people. But obviously, I have to say, I've met in my life one very successful male escort in the UK, and when I ended up having this conversation with him, He confided in me that most of his clients actually weren't women. They were straight men that wanted a male experience. Do you get that sort of inquiry as well, or do you find that the women that you get are— I mean, are they women that fall into either of the two camps that the men would fall into, or Is there a completely different category on the female side? And is there enough work? I guess what I'm asking is, is there enough work to support just catering to women?

Yeah, look, there's a bunch of questions you asked me. Let me unpack them one by one. I'm 100% straight.

Okay.

People might have the misconception that bullshit, you're not straight. I can guarantee you I am. I have zero desire to be with men. Okay, so I rule that out straight away. I will often get inquiries from men wondering if I will do something with them, and the answer is read my profile— straight male escort. It's what it says on the label. Um, so yeah, that is not something I ever entertain. I do on very, very rare occasions see couples but that is for a particular reason. And it could be because the man struggles with intimacy and he can't provide what his partner or his wife wants. So, yeah, and that, that's a very rigorous process for me to determine if they are the right type of clientele for me. But it's, you know, most all of my clients are women, and so they are in certain circumstances. But like you were just saying, they're very different to men seeking out female escorts. They don't just want to hook up and get their rocks off. Yeah, my minimum booking is 2 hours. And that's because women don't want to come in and just have a 10-minute session and go.

Yeah.

And I've come to know many female escorts. And they do provide that type of service because there are men who just That's all they want. They want to press a bell for a rinse. And that's fine. Yeah, no, no judgment whatsoever. But the bulk of my clientele, they want connection. They want to be seen, be heard. And 2 hours is barely enough to begin with. And I put a lot of time and attention into the, the pre-meeting. So let's say, for example, a woman reaches out to me via my website or where I advertise and makes an inquiry saying, George, I'm interested in meeting you. I go through a very extensive process to figure out if I'm the best person for that woman. So I don't need to accept every client inquiry that I get, and I don't. But I will ask questions like, well, tell me a bit about yourself. What's your backstory? And are you in a relationship? Or they can tell me whatever it is they choose to tell me, and I don't judge that. But I need to understand if I'm going to be the best person for them, and if not, I won't accept the booking. So it's really important for me to appreciate who they are, what I can give to them. And if not, you know, I, you know, I will either just say a flat no, or if I think they are very genuine, because I do know some other good quality male escorts, I might say you may want to reach out to this person. So, but you know, sex is far down the list in terms of what most women want. It is in a very large proportion of my clientele, it's intimacy. Connection. Simple things like having a man to pay attention to them, hold their hand, hug them, and just be totally present. So that's where it's vastly different from a female escort to a male escort.

Yeah. And has your view of intimacy and connection and relationships changed since you started doing this?

Completely. Yes, it has. I'll give you an example. So I have a number of clients in their 60s, 70s, and even in their 80s who have reached out to me. And for me, that's— I've got to, as I just said, understand who they are, what their situation is, and what it is they want from me. What can I provide? And for many of them, it is purely a social connection. At least to begin with. So there's a particular client in her 60s, I've seen her for about 2 years now, roughly every month. So that's a lot of interactions. And it's only been in the last couple of months we've actually become physical in terms of actual sex. Yeah, because that's a very sacred thing for her. And so I've been building up these lovely connections between us. We'll go out for lunch, we'll hold hands, we'll go to an art gallery and do these things that she, she just, she's never been married. She never had children. But for her, this is just so extraordinary. It's a man paying attention to her for the first time in her life. And for her, that's worth paying for. So that's intimacy for her. So there are so many different ways of explaining, expressing touch and physical connection and just that beautiful heart connection that we can have with people.

And do people, I mean, in a similar way to sometimes people fall for their physio, their psychotherapist, do you have that issue where sometimes, especially when you're developing these relationships over years and it's not just a one-off kind of quickie, Do you have situations where people do develop strong feelings for you? And if so, how do you deal with that?

Absolutely, yes, that happens. I consider the connections that I have with those clients to be relationships. I have a relationship with them, and that's, that's part and parcel of being human because we share so much. We share conversations about their life and my life. And but I, I need to maintain a boundary that this ultimately is a transaction. There's an exchange of money for a service. It's like you might have a great hairdresser. You're paying the hairdresser to do your hair and look good, and but they're not necessarily going to be your best friend. And but it can get a bit blurry sometimes. Yeah, because particularly when sex is involved, it does change the brain chemistry. It really makes women feel differently about— so for instance, you know, if they've not had this level of intimacy with a man for a very long time and I'm giving them all the attention and saying all the right things, they might be thinking, you're exactly what I want.

Exactly. Yeah.

But as I say, you can rent me, but you can't buy me. And that's a really challenging thing for a lot of women. They see this thing that they wanted for a very long time, but they can't have me in that way.

Yeah, that's very difficult. Do you find it difficult yourself to manage and navigate those kind of relationships?

Oh, I do. Yeah, of course, because I'm human as well. And I, I give a great deal to these connections. Yeah, I'm as authentic as I can possibly be. So what I'm providing is not fake. I'm not an actor. I can't do that. So, but I need to maintain a strong boundary so that what I'm providing is genuine and real, but there's a line and that can't be crossed because that's not what I'm going to do. And the matter of the fact is, this is my job and I'm not going to be monogamous with a client. And so it, yeah, it is a very vexed and very delicate area to, to step around.

And Yeah, and I was thinking about going back to the start of this conversation where, well, there's two things that I'm curious about. One is when you initially got into this job and several women said to you, you'd be really good at this. Now, if I was with, I was with a guy years ago actually, he was incredibly charming and I tried to set up something for him called Charm School for Boys because I thought what he'd be really good at is a bit like the original course that you went on, just teaching men and how it was to be charming. But for me, if I meet someone charming and lovely, I don't wanna rent them out. Yes, exactly. I want to keep them, okay? I wanna keep them 'cause they're fun and they're charming and they're lovely. And when those women said to you, you'd be really good at this, I think that's a very interesting thing. What was it that you were not good at that made them think that you'd be good? Being rented out and not good as their forever man? Because if you were prior to getting into this— if you were the guy that you claimed to be, I'd be like, 'I want to keep this one.' He's picking all the right buttons. So what was it that you weren't doing that made them go, why don't you rent yourself out?

No, I love that, Suzanne Noble Noble. So It's just, it's important to understand a bit of the backstory. So I was married once, I had another long-term relationship. So 20 years of my adult life was spent in the traditional relationships, you know, living together, having kids, all those things. And so when that last one ended around 15 years ago, I just knew that was not what I wanted to do anymore. So all the dating I've referred to, um, I've been for the most part ethically non-monogamous. And if your listeners don't know what that is, it means that I've been dating multiple women and they've all known that that's what I'm doing, and, and most of them are doing the same thing. Yeah. So I, I'm very honest and very upfront that I'm not offering the traditional Okay, living together, sharing bank accounts, all those type of things. So if that's what you want, amazing, but I'm not the guy. So I'm very upfront about those things so that if you like me and I like you and we want to do these things, they're the boundaries. And, uh, there's just no— yeah, I'm in— in saying that, I must admit that I'm, I'm not close-minded to something amazing happening in my life. That would be a bit foolish. Uh, but the price of entry is complexity, and this is what I do. And, um, in the last few years of doing this escorting work, I've expected that not many women will want to date me because it's, it's complex.

It is.

There's a lot going on here. And, uh, but this is my story, this is my truth, and I absolutely love what I'm doing. Now, I'm very passionate about it, as I think you can tell, because I bring great joy to, to women. And it's like the most profound profession I think I've ever had.

Yeah. And you mentioned at the start again about creating trust and safety and, and how important that is. And I can appreciate that because you're going into a situation with a stranger initially. You don't know, they don't know you, they don't know anything about you. How do you create that feeling of safety and trust?

Yeah, that's an excellent question because many of my clients have had serious traumas. Many of them have had sexual abuse, and that's a hell of a lot to deal with. I make it very clear that I'm not a therapist.

Yeah.

And if they present those type of things to me, I sort of ask if they are seeing a therapist or they're seeing professional help for those things, because that's— I can't provide that. But I guess what they— well, when you look at, say, my website or where I advertise, I'm as open-minded as I can possibly be and very clear. So there will be— I talked about the various courses that I've done, talk about the— oh, there's testimonials from clients who have seen me, and they're, they're quite raw and direct and honest. And because my reputation is everything, if I was not doing a good job, I would never get any more clients. Um, but I have an ability, I think, to make women feel relaxed and comfortable. It's just in my inherent nature. Um, you know, I've grown up with women, very strong women in my life from the day I was born, from my mother and my grandmother, my sister and, and partners. So I've got a really deep love and respect for women. So I think it comes across quite naturally. So when pretty much every client that approaches me is nervous, they've— they've— most of them have never done this before, never reached out to an escort. And so the questioning that I asked them, as I alluded to earlier, like, what's brought you here? How are you feeling? Those questions just disarm them. It's just very natural and easy for me, and there's never any pressure to do anything ever. So that by the time we meet, hopefully they've got a good sense of, oh, this guy is someone I can trust. Um, if not, there's all these other safety mechanisms they can— so we meet in public, say, yeah, and then I let them know, hey, tell someone where you're going and who you're going to be with. So, and how long you expect to be with me so that they've got all of those safety valves in place.

Yeah. And do, do they sign? I had a, I've had a couple of sensual massages that ended with sort of happy endings, and I had to sign quite a long consent form around what I was and was not comfortable with them doing. What kind of consent is, um, is that just inherent consent through the conversation that you have? Do you make them sign any written piece of paper? Like, what's the sort of legalities around this?

No, look, I don't make them sign anything because even if I were to, I don't know whether that would hold up in a case of, in, you know, in, in the court. Um, and yeah, that, that's a, that's something on me. I I think because I, I do everything I possibly can to make them feel comfortable, but there's always the chance that someone will have a less than ideal experience, and I can't control that.

No.

So, um, that's, yeah, but that's an element of risk that I take on, and that's why I filter very carefully. And, you know, that I, I will always do the very best I can And, and I'll always talk around consent. I've spent years in this sector.

Not just—

sure, I've only done this work for a few years, but in my private life, I've done a lot of work around kink and BDSM and consent and all these things. So yeah, it's super important to have conversations around what are your— what are your boundaries? What are the things I need to know? How are we going to communicate around consent? Uh, is there anything that might trigger you in this conversation or this connection? What might be your trauma responses, from people pleasing to fight, flight, fawn, or freeze? And how are you going to let me know that? So in every possible way we've got the best chance of elucidating that and them being safe. And obviously I'll pay attention to body language, but if there's someone I've not met before, I can't be 100% guaranteed that I will pick up on their signals. Yeah, yeah. So it's— look, it's not fallible or infallible, whatever. Yes, but I will do my very best, and thus far I've not had an issue with it.

Yeah. And, and what preconceptions do you think people have about male escorts, particularly straight male escorts who work with women?

Well, first up, they think I'm not straight, like I just said before. Surely he's got to be bisexual. I'm here to guarantee that I am not. Yeah, they, you know, what I find interesting, Suzanne, is that, um, actually I might ask you a question. When you think of a male escort as a stereotype, what do you think they look like? Who are they?

I mean, I suppose in my head I've got some kind of like guy that looks a bit like a model with a you know, a six-pack and just like really hot and a huge, and a huge deck, obviously. Um, that's kind of goes with that.

The beer in the fridge. And I'm, you know, I'm not hot, I'm not young, I'm not a professional, uh, personal trainer. Um, and my clients don't want that either because there is a large number of, like, it's only a small number of male escorts to begin with. Yeah, there's at least 50 times the number of female escorts. So when you narrow that down, the male escorts are very often in their 20s. They're— you've got that ripped gym body, and they, you know, they've got the photos of their shirts off and, and all those things. That, that's not me, and my clientele don't want that. Either. Because my average clientele is in their 50s, 60s, 70s. And they want someone they can have a conversation with. They, they don't want someone who's the age of their son, who's got not much going on up here. All power to those guys. No, no, no respect, all respect for them. But I think I've got a particular niche. And, um, that's what I, that's what I work on, and that's what works for me. Um, so yeah, I'll lean into everything that I have. And, uh, it's, yeah, it, it is not on my— it wasn't on— if I were to have a, um, I guess a memoir from, you know, that included when I was a, a teenager, I wouldn't have thought become a male escort in my 50s.

Yeah, I didn't think I was going to host a podcast about sex for old people either, but you know, here we are, George, right?

Beautiful. And you know what, Suzanne Noble is so necessary because what we're talking about are things that most people don't talk about.

No.

And you know, we are all sexual creatures. And what I'd like to say is that We are all born because of an orgasm. Yeah, think about it in a basic level. A man had an orgasm that created human life. Yeah, but then we get weird and we don't talk about it.

No, I agree.

Why is that? Why is that? And then we create shame and all these terrible things around sex when it's just a simple act. Like breathing. It's like, well, yes, of course we have sex, of course we do this and we do that. And so what— why do we get so odd about, uh, speaking about it? Yeah.

And I suppose, you know, one of the things that strikes me always that's so useful, just it— even if a client only has one or two sessions with you, is that you're helping them to articulate their sexual needs and desires. You know, you're helping them to actually think about their own pleasure, and you're helping them to actually be able to have a proper conversation about what they like. And as you said, and I, and I suspect is very true for a lot of those people, this may be the first time that they ever did that. And I know during my own marriage, we just didn't have those conversations. And it wasn't until I left my marriage and started dating and realized that actually, if I wasn't on the same page with somebody with regard to you know, how I like to experience sexual pleasure, then it just wasn't going to work. So there was no point in me going on 50 dates with some guy only to find out we get into bed together, he wants to be submissive, I want to be submissive, it just doesn't work, you know.

Let me tell you something else that I think is— that I've discovered, which was a bit of a lesson for me, is that I've actually had sex with virgins. And as a man in my mid-50s, I never thought I'd have sex with a virgin. And why would I? Um, so I've had sex with two virgins. One is 25, the other was 55. And I guess what that tells me and what that demonstrates is that there's a hidden thing of so many people, uh, well, more people than perhaps you might imagine have not had sex, and we just don't talk about that. And so it's wonderful to be able to explore that and be a professional in doing what I do and provide that extra level of care and responsibility. Yeah, because it's— I never thought I would have sex with a virgin at my age. But if they are there and they want that, it's, it's something sacred. And I will do, I'll pay deep attention to that. And if I can make that first experience really profound, that's a, that's an honor and a gratitude that I feel.

Unbelievable. That's unbelievable. So that, that leads me to my final question, which is when a client leaves your company feeling fantastic, What do you hope they're really walking away with beyond the experience itself?

You know, I see them, to quote the Annie Lennox song, "Walking on Sunshine." It's like they're like standing tall, they're proud, they've got a massive smile, and people they know say, "What's happened? What's changed in you?" Because it's so obvious. And I hope that gives them confidence that they are sexy, they are attractive, and they can get out of their head that tells them you're not interesting, you're not appealing, and all these things. And, and I can tell you this, I can guarantee you this has happened many times where they then have the confidence to go out and feel attractive and appealing to the universe and to the people around them. And they can then move on if they choose to date and experience this affection. I've just been the stepping stone to help them get there, and that's the biggest gift I can give. It's beautiful. And I see quite often—

that's lovely, that's lovely. Well, there's nothing like that great feeling, is there, when you've been royally fucked? Anyway, just saying. Um, George, it's been so lovely to chat with you. Have a fantastic evening in Australia, and we'll post your socials and everything if anybody wants to get in touch with George and experience his delights.

Anytime, I'd be delighted. I, I'm very open and I welcome any and all questions and, uh, conversations. So thank you so much.