Fueling Call 2026 07 09 13 15 EDT Recording

Okay, uh, we brought the heat out for you guys. We brought the giant wet blanket. So how's it going trying to fuel and hydrate in the wet blanket? That is East North Carolina. Insane, isn't it? Okay, any insights from your, um, spreadsheet? How are people doing on their spreadsheet? Okay, Debbie, I know you look pretty consistent. Yeah. Okay, Mike, you're doing good?

Yeah, I'm traveling this week, so I'm actually in Indiana and it's humid here, but not as crazy as it is there. And I don't have a scale, so I'm not keeping up with my spreadsheet. Um, but I'm trying some new products and found that I really— some that I found, one that I really don't like. So that's good to know.

Yeah, start narrowing down, right? So like, even though with your sweat needs, um, it narrows it down, but then you can narrow it down even further just saying, nope, that one's not good.

Um, Chris Newport, when, when the app comes out, is it going to be Mac and iOS compatible or not?

It is. So it is now officially in the testing, like, it's— we're testing it today, like, literally, which is exciting. And, um, I can't test it because I have an Android. Yet I can't test it yet. Um, so it's coming out on iOS first and then Android will follow.

Because I can honestly say that my spreadsheet has not been the greatest just because it's not liking the Mac.

So yes, Excel and Mac understand each other. No, they don't.

Mm-hmm.

Mac is real cool, except when it's not. You know? Uh, so this app is going to be great. So, um, like I said, you guys will have— once it does come out, I know I wish it could— there were background of some of the challenges of getting it out into the world, but you guys will have plenty of time to be able to take your data, put it in there, and then, uh, you will have a better trend line of saying, you know, like Mike being in Indiana, like, I know that the expected temp and humidity when I go for a run is going to be this, then it's just going to say drink this much. And then you don't have to pack a scale in your carry-on because I know you guys are all doing that. Um, I appreciate some of the wearable sweat monitors, um, but they're, they're, they're just not quite there. You know, but you shouldn't, hopefully shouldn't need them if you collect a small amount of data. This is not something that you guys need to be doing forever. I just want to make sure that that is clear, right? So amen to that, you know, once you get a collection of per sport and in different conditions, then the app will have enough data to be able to be able to do your predictions. So you should be good to go. Um, does anyone have any questions on any of the modules that are released? GI stuff, managing blood sugar responses. Um, I know all the rage right now, and it has been all the rage, is the high carb. So if you have questions about high carb, Are we feeling pretty confident about getting close to a plan? Like, here's my marathon plan, here's my triathlon plan, here's my Ironman plan, whatever it is. Are we getting— are we in the formulation stage?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

All right.

Brent, how close are you? Like, what's your strategy look like so far?

I think I am going— I'm tolerating Tailwind. So I've been doing the small package just to make sure I can tolerate it and that I'm not flaring up the fructose with the gout. And so, uh, I think that's what I'm going with that. And then, um, I'm still using Scratch for my hydration. So combining the two.

So cool. How have you found a certain threshold in terms of grams of carbs?

Uh, I'm almost, I'm almost up to 100. So I'm tolerating it.

Good.

That's on, that's on the bike.

Yes.

I haven't, I haven't really done a lot on the run as of yet. I'm going to use, do that this month before nationals.

So yeah, I think that is a great point because the, and you guys saw this in the modules, right? The lack of jostling in running. On the bike allows your gut, in theory, to, um, take in just a little bit more. But what I am— so what we see in the literature, and of course this was all sort of like tossed on its head, is that we can oxidize about 1 gram of carb per minute. You know, this is like putting athletes on bicycles, feeding them these little like carbon tracer pills, and being like, what is happening to the carbohydrates that you're actually taking in? Is it actually being oxidized for work, or are you just not using it? Um, and that's what we were seeing is 60 grams of carbs per hour, but then you tack on fructose and now you can up that number because now you have a different pathway because fructose does it— has a different pathway than glucose exclusively. Um, so now we're able to get up, maybe we can tolerate somewhere around 70 to 90 grams. Keep in mind, the smaller of a human you are, the less you need. The larger of a human, the more you need. So I wouldn't necessarily suggest 100 grams of carbs to Brent and also to Debbie, because I know Debbie is a tinier human than Brent. And that is not a dig on anyone, it is just facts. Um, but with men, I have seen anecdotally is that usually the tipping point is right around 90-ish grams for the run, where everybody's kind of like, you know, we start to— I mean, because that's, that's going to be your tipping point. You're going to have some sort of gastrointestinal, uh, response, shall we say, to your body just being like, thanks but no thanks. Um, and usually that is somewhere around the 90 to 100 gram mark. But for women, you can still get a lot out of carbs, but not necessarily going to that level unless you are a larger female. So, um, and remember there's glycogen or carb loading strategies. If you guys remember from the modules, you can also take that route and then you're having to consume less carbs because you're using more of that glycogen. So, but you gotta, you gotta, you gotta test it out. So I've usually had people start off with like, okay, how does 60 go? How does 70 go? How does 80 go? How does 90 go? How does the hunger grow? And then, um, but everybody has a different strategy. I have some who are literally like, both feet in, we're just gonna go for 120, or maybe more than that. And, um, I'm just gonna hope that you're not in a race situation. So, uh, and I, I don't— I've heard the rumors about like, I think it's Cam Wurf who was able to take in like, I don't know, 200 grams of carbs per hour or something like that, but I can't speak to anything that I don't necessarily have evidence on, you know. So he's also putting out some big numbers. Um, so good luck, Brent. All that to say is let's see how it goes with the little jostling going on. Yeah.

Um, to be upfront, I'm not doing 100 off the bike. Yeah. Yeah.

So, um, you know, maybe starting more conservatively at like 60 to 70. Seeing how that goes.

I was probably gonna do less, but yeah.

Okay.

I mean, yeah, remember, 1 gram of carb per minute you should be able to take in no problem, even if it's just like straight glucose. So if you just kept it really easy, and you guys can make your own stuff, easy peasy lemon squeezy. Um, Looking like a drug dealer. So what have you been able to tolerate on the run?

What have I? Mm-hmm. Um, I've just have gone back to the normal of just doing a gel, one gel on a run for like a, for like a 10K.

So like 25 grams of carbs per hour.

Uh, I think they're 30.

Okay.

Yeah, but yeah, close.

Okay.

Or maybe even for 45 minutes, somewhere in that neighborhood. Okay. Um, so are you worried about going up to 60 or are you just going to try to go?

I mean, I might try. I'm just trying to deal with the heat right now. So yeah.

Yeah.

So remember your, the heat, if you are not acclimatized, which at this point, probably we all are. Um, it lowers your gut's ability to do its thing. So take whatever number that you're used to taking in— maybe it's 100, maybe it's 90, maybe it's 60— and drop that by about 10%. So that's, that's a good, like, go-to number, um, because remember, your body has a hierarchy of what it wants to keep alive. And your brain is super important, and your heart is super important, and, uh, your liver and your kidneys. And last on the rung is like your GI tract. When your body is like, we're in trouble, we need to shut down certain things because, uh, you just keep insisting on running. So like the muscles are still going. Um, So the gut kind of, you know, the dial turns down a little bit, digestion turns down a little bit. So just expect that when it's hotter and you're still trying to follow the plan, that that needs to be titrated just a little bit. Make sense? Hopefully.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So Chris, I've been—

yeah, go ahead, Mike.

I've been hit— I've been the last few weeks, I've been hitting 90, 90 plus grams of carbs an hour. So 4 gels, 2 gels every half hour.

Okay.

Um, and I just this week, I'm, I've, uh, been trying out, um, Carbo Rocket, uh, HappyVille. Um, and that's, uh, did 80, 86 grams, uh, in 40 minutes. I did one this week and that's, that's going well. So I'm going to try and end up trying to do a mix of that and gels, um, to see, because, you know, training for a 100 miler, I need to definitely figure out how to get enough calories in.

Yep.

Uh, I think we talked about this before, but I would definitely encourage you to try different flavors.

Yes.

Yep.

Absolutely. Variety.

Yes. Variety is the spice of the ultra runner's life. Um, or Ironman, um, or multi-Ironman, um, depending on your sport of choice. So yeah, I think that's, uh, that sounds great. How did you feel? You feel okay?

Yeah, so far I'm tolerating it really well.

Cool.

Um, I haven't, uh, I'll be starting to ramp up my, my mileage over the, the next few weeks and months, um, but up to Been doing that up to 2+ hours. Uh, we'll see how that goes as it gets longer, especially in the heat.

Good.

Cool. Notice when you guys are doing higher carbs during your workouts, which I'm here for. Um, I was having this conversation with another dietitian who's one of the dietitians for a, um, pro women's cycling team. And she and I were just sort of lamenting of like how different the conversations have gotten. Like, we, we used to have to like beg athletes to fuel during their workouts, and now they're like over-fueling, but then they're not. So it's like, what's happening? Um, so if you are fueling really well during your workouts, know that it is not as dire of a situation for you to get your recovery nutrition. Does that make sense? So you have fueled yourself so well during The period of time, the post-workout period, is, is, uh, not nearly as important. Like, you don't have to like go immediately for your, like, you know, post-workout shake because your glycogen stores are pretty well spared. You've been using your energy from the carbohydrates you've been putting in the body, um, and you're probably not going to be as hungry.

Right.

So that's, that's definitely what I found. I, in my previous, previous years, previous lifetimes of training, um, I would always hit a recovery drink, you know, mix of protein and carbs or shake or something like that. And I'm not finding that I need that as I'm bumping up the carbs during the run. I'm still thirsty when I'm, when I've done, so I'm still not, uh, I haven't gotten my hydration dialed in yet.

Um, so that's what the spreadsheets are working on. A lot of sugary products stimulate your thirst. You guys notice that? Like, if you ever have like a Coke or something and you're like, I feel like I'm thirsty. Yeah. So, um, that I'm— as long as you're keeping track of your weight loss when you can and you're not, you know, traveling Um, and you're staying on top of the pre and post weight, then you should be good from a thirst perspective. It might just be your mouth is a little tired of all the sugar. You could do like a, a rinse, um, or like suck on some ice cubes. Um, and then from a recovery perspective, as long as you're sitting down, hopefully to a meal, I mean, it all depends on the timing, right? If you're finishing a run at like 9 o'clock at night, you're probably not going to want to be eating a meal at 10 o'clock. But, um, if you can get some protein in within 2 hours, that just saves that— spares that muscle tissue from being used as energy. But since you've been so good about your carbs, again, not as much of a risk. Does that make sense? Hopefully. Yeah, that does.

Thanks.

Yeah.

Um, and maybe we're saving you money. Not having to buy all these extra products. You just go home and have some chicken salad or something, I don't know, you know.

Although I'm going through gels like nobody's business right now.

Yes, it is. Yes, it is, uh, a costly— sometimes a costly sport. So yeah, Brett's like, I have, I have a gel budget. Which, you know, if we want to get in the kitchen, you just say the word. We can have a gel mixing extravaganza. It's just so easy, you guys. It's so easy. Marty, any questions or anybody else? Any questions? Challenges?

I just wanted to say I learned how to eat a banana on the bike, and that's been helping keep the budget down a little bit.

Amen to that.

So that was a win.

Yes, I love it.

I knew I had to do it, and it took me like 20 minutes to like get the courage up to do it though. So, but yeah, it was about— it's about the same carbs as one of the gels that I take.

So, cheers.

Yeah, did that just for training purposes.

I love it.

Yeah, 30 grams of carbs with you, ye good old banana.

Yep.

So, uh, you know, a little bit bulkier to carry, but totally works.

Yeah, I was gonna say, where do you put it?

I put it in right in my kit, in the back of my kit.

And the tri suit?

No, just my cycling shirt has a little pocket.

Yeah, yeah. Uh, just Marty with a banana. Like, yeah, I think in the helmet. Listen, we have seen some strange things in the endurance community.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, I'm telling you guys, making your own gels is easy and it's cheap. So if you are up for it, it's totally possible. So I mean, considering that Honey Stinger has made a dime off of literally honey in a package Yeah, you know, and just maybe just, just a pinch of salt. Um, so there's a lot of different ways. It's like you could do date syrup combinations, you could do maple syrup combinations. Maybe that's something that I could add to the modules of like, how many different ways can you mix, uh, homemade things into a gel type item? I mean, just say the word, you guys.

Yeah, I'd be interested in that just because gels are so expensive.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay.

Oh, you guys, I mean, my husband's gonna be so excited. He's like, you're finally using that giant bag of dextrose, of white powder that's in our cupboard. It's so—

I think I have a 5-pound container of that.

Uh-huh.

Yeah, and I have yet to open it, so There you go.

So it's, it's waiting for you. So a little bit of that, and, and then you, you have to mix a little bit to your liking. I don't know if you guys saw the— I put up last year when I was training for Worlds, I did a bunch of gel tastings and I put out a YouTube video on it. And so, and I, I was very transparent of like, here I am, I've never tried this gel before, and you're gonna see what I think of a Morton, or see what I think of whatever. And I— one of the gels I had was, uh, Kronos, I think, um, which is a maple syrup kind of, uh, company. And I was like, ooh, raspberry, I like raspberry. And why it didn't register in my head that literally the gel said maple syrup and raspberries— it didn't register in my head that I was literally going to be taking a shot of maple syrup. So when I started ingesting it, I was like, oh my God, this is maple syrup. I was like I can't, I can't, I need a waffle. So if I were going to do my own formulation, I would probably do either some— you can, and you know, like in Brent's situation, if you can't do a lot of fructose, then it's a matter of, um, probably do more of a maple syrup. Also, I know this sounds, uh, insane. That is not insane. Whoever Weetie's speaking to, we run around in spandex riding bikes, so So, um, uh, and running, um, it is, uh, you know, Karo syrup?

Yeah.

Do you guys know, like, like corn syrup? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So corn syrup is, um, a disaccharide that is called maltose, which is a molecule of glucose and glucose versus sucrose, which is regular white table sugar, which is glucose and fructose, right? So, and then what they'll do in Karo syrup is they just add vanilla. So it's not high fructose corn syrup. That's not something you can really buy so much. That's more commercially produced. Um, but Karo, it's not as— because fructose makes things sweet. So like honey is naturally, um, glucose and fructose. So that's going to be sweeter. Maple syrup obviously is going to be really sweet, but you could do combinations of like Karo syrup and then, you know, other things that will kind of dampen down the sweetness factor, like dextrose, which is not as sweet. So you could do little combinations of that and then put it into your little flask or bottle and Yeah, so I love a good challenge, you guys. Thanks. Uh, we're not going to call it poor man's fueling because it's not. It's smart man's fueling is what I'm going to call it. We're up for that. Um, all right, so some gel recipes coming right up, guys. Okay, what other questions are coming up for people? Challenges, roadblocks, questions?

I had a question. Um, so I've been traveling for the last forever, and while I was on the go, I did a free month trial of an app called Fuelin. Are you help— uh, are you familiar with it? I am. Um, because I was just like having to create meals in grocery stores, like on the go, and just— or in the gas station, or, you know, where— in the car. So, um, yeah, do you have any thoughts about it? Sorry, somebody just started mowing their lawn.

Oh, that's okay. Um, has anybody in here used said app?

No.

From my, um, I have not personally used it, um, but from what I have seen of it, it is a lot of, um, intense macro breakdown. And it's seen from— and from the clients I've had who have used that as like their basis for their structure of what they're eating, um, it seems to me like it overestimates just a little bit. Can't speak to, you know, like I've not personally used it. I've just seen the, the printouts that clients have come to me for. They're like, I'm having this challenge and I use this app, and then I can objectively look at it and say, what's this situation with this person? How much energy do they need? And is this app giving them an appropriate recommendation. Does that make sense? Yeah. Um, so if it is, if it is helpful to use something like that to at least give you some guidelines, that's fine. Um, I don't remember if I in the modules give you guys like more of a, like a fueling calculator. I think I have a couple of different fueling calculators for you guys in there if you needed them. Um, I will have to say, I'm— if you're— if you are in, uh, like, if you need ideas in a gas station, AI is great for that rather than paying for another app. And nothing against them.

No, I didn't want to do it long term, but they had like a month trial, so— but I was curious about that. I felt like it was like overestimating the carbs and, um, carbs. And it, it tracks fats, carbs and calories pretty closely, and it seems really difficult to get to the carb and calorie, uh, like goals without going way over in fat unless you're eating like extremely clean. Yeah. So I was just like, is this gonna be my life now? I don't want to eat like plain rice and just no fun in life.

No fun.

So now that I'm like back home, I'm, I'm starting to plug in like what I normally eat and kind of see where that falls on what they recommend, and it seems like it's over.

Yeah, yeah, yes. I mean, Marty, you know I'm always for a human to be able to determine energy needs for it, for the— for everyone's specific needs. Apps and things like that, I think that they can get you pretty close, but then, you know, people typically run into issues of like, this doesn't seem right, or I'm not exactly sure, or Um, to, you know, just kind of like, really? And then, you know, that's where it's nice to have at least just a little human step in and say, okay, let's get you cleaned up here and get you better on the right path. And then, um, put on— and then if you want to continue using the app, you can continue. You know, I have people who use my Fitness Pal and they continue to use it after that, or Yeah, so I, I feel like the app stuff sometimes will overestimate or depending on what ratios they're using of carb, fat, protein. Yeah, good question. Yeah, it's an interesting, interesting ways that computers are trying to determine a very complex structure that is the human body.

Right.

So, and it at least gets us, it gets us close, you know? So yeah.

Um, all right.

Any other questions? And on that note, if people are like, how do I know how much protein I need? How do I know how much carbs I need? Or, you know, things like that. Like those are fair game.

Probably.

Yeah. Do you on there? It tells me like basically you should be having as much protein as your body weight. Is that your recommendation?

Um, body weight in pounds?

Yeah.

Yeah. So, um, also this would be a great one, Marty, for you to test out with Chris Newport.

Okay. Yeah. I can ask her.

A whole convo with her.

Ooh.

Okay. Yes. Because there is so much on my different views on, um, uh, activity factors and, um, protein needs and all that kind of stuff. But, uh, usually for endurance athletes, I'm looking at anywhere between 1.2 and 1.8 grams of carbs per— or sorry, grams of protein per kilogram. We think in kg, not in pounds. Um, and usually I just default because it's easy, 1.5, 1.6. Um, but you can get away with less, but you can also have more. So it depends on what the overall goal is. Is it maintenance? Is it a little bit of fat loss? Is it, um, increasing lean tissue? But usually it's in that range. And then, so I start there and then I'll back into what's their overall energy needs and then plug that in as a percentage of protein. And then if that needs to be more or less, then I'll make those adjustments and then adjust based on fat and carbs. But I do not account in daily energy needs for exercise. That's how I like to— I like to separate them. I don't put them all into one big bucket.

Oh, so it doesn't change every day?

It can change because your energy needs for exercise are— I treat them separately than your energy needs from daily nutrition.

Oh, okay.

So that's probably how the— how an app would just kind of put them all together, right? And that's not how, um, in my opinion, that's not how metabolism works, right? So they're a little bit different. So that's what I like to kind of separate those buckets a little bit. Um, I find mostly that endurance athletes have a harder time getting enough protein. Yeah, but honestly, that's Probably most people, because I do work with a lot of weight loss clients too. And usually my men are like, oh yeah, okay, cool, I did it. And my women are like, oh my God, that's so much chicken. Yeah. Yeah. So then they're like, oh, I'm so full. And then, you know, um, so balance, right? So yeah, play in the Chris AI bot and see what you can— yeah, I'll try that. Yeah, that'll be fun. Um, all right, any last questions before we head out?

Excellent.

All right, so, um, let's have some accountability from now until we meet next week. Uh, what are some things you would like to try and/or, um, follow through on From now until next week, uh, Brent, since you're off mute, you're first to report on, is it your running?

Um, yeah, I'll be adding the running in. So, okay. And see how it goes with a little bit extra carbs, especially on the hot days.

Okay.

All right.

Oh, but I do have another challenge. Ooh, I have a bowel prep next Wednesday, so that's good.

That's gonna be interesting.

Yeah.

Okay.

I didn't tell Marty either, so I'm going to be training through it.

So, Brent, you know I'm gonna tell him now because that's what we do. We tattle on you guys. Uh, somebody also has the keys to all of the athletes' TrainingPeaks, and maybe things just disappear off your training plan. Weird how that happens.

I've already recorded it.

I know what was on it.

So screenshot, you can't take it away from me. Oh gracious, endurance athletes, you guys. Okay, so that's gonna throw a little wrench into things, but you know. All right, I don't know if I want you to let us know how that goes, but hopefully it's all cool. Um, all right, anybody else need some accountability for now until next week? Debbie?

I'm just trying to figure out, I'm just doing a half marathon out in California. Ooh. And I know the climate is gonna be a whole lot different than what I'm doing now.

Mm-hmm.

So I've been kinda looking at their weather.

Good.

And trying to acclimate what I take, but then when I do the miles here, obviously it's totally different.

Yes. So yeah, you'll be losing less. So look into that and see what their dew point is. And then what that adjusted number would be and what you've already had. Yeah.

And yeah, so, and then from the numbers that we played with last week, excuse me, the sodium count was like so high from what I've been doing that when I did that on Saturday, It was awful. I just, I just couldn't tolerate that much in the, in the spread of, because I think it was like 1,000 per hour, and I'm like, I can't do that.

I mean, with, with the fluid with it?

Yeah. I was, I did, I like concentrated my drink in one. Okay. And then I had water in the other, and then just trying to manipulate the two bottles wasn't fun either.

Oh, okay. All right, so you tried some logistical things and it didn't— yeah, so I feel like it worked out.

Yeah, playing different things, but I still don't know why. I did buy something that had more sodium in one thing, so maybe I'll work on that. Yeah, looks plain.

So yeah, good, good point about like you can make a concentrated drink. So if let's say you took one sip of that, then you would follow it with one sip of plain water to sort of wash it down.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Sounds like your palate didn't like it so much.

No, no. I just was irritated all day. It seemed to be, but I'm sure it was heat related too. It was just so hot. Yeah. Who knows, you know? Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

Plan. Yeah.

Okay, good.

All right, Dave, as you know, I'm not doing much of anything right now, so I'm living vicariously through everyone here.

Love it.

Love it.

Let's go. Okay, cool, cool.

Marty, my long rides on the weekends are going to start ramping up into unknown territory, so I need to— I want to start getting a sweat, like tracking the sweat on those. I never have before because they're always a brick run. I'm usually not at home, so I guess it requires me to bring my scale and be a weirdo. You're not a weirdo, but I mean, I'm just gonna do it because I really do want to know.

Exactly. Yeah, like, I have seen so much weirder things than somebody stepping on a scale when they're dripping wet and it's hot out, you know what I mean? Like To me that makes sense. I'm also me, but I'm like, yeah, that person sweat a lot. They want to know how much they sweat.

Yeah.

So, uh, don't worry.

I brought a, I brought a scale to work and everyone thought that was weird, but yeah, they got over it quick.

Yeah.

It's all good. It's all good. Um, okay. Mike.

Yeah, I think for me it's just getting, um, getting my amount of hydration dialed in. So I'm still working on that with the right mix. Um, now that I got my sweat test results, the right mix of sodium in there, and figure out what products do that. So I've got a few different ones that I'm trying, and I need to— on this, this trip I haven't paid a lot of attention to it, but once I'm back home— I've got back Sunday, um, so this coming week I'll be working on that more.

Love it.

We'll check in on next Thursday about that.

Cool.

And hopefully by next week you guys will have a hot app in your hands, at least for Apple users, so that you can start to— I know, we'll get there, Debbie, I promise, I promise. I told you I have an Android, so like it would be a crime to not have my own app, especially with how much I've paid for it. So I will have that app in my hands. So yeah, just keep, keep logging as best as you can because it will be able to upload a CSV file. So hopefully that can be Mac and Mac compatible. But we're going to test it out and then hopefully you guys will have that by next week, fingers crossed. So thanks for all the great questions and I'll have some gel recipes for you guys and see see you next week. All right, bye guys.

Thanks, bye.