The New Rules of Social Media Marketing in 2025 | GaryVee w/ CMO NOW at Advertising Week

I bought a $20,000 trading card last night on live social shopping in China. There's a handbag lady who's doing $8 million a show selling $40,000 handbags one second at a time. There's a concept I have called commerce tainment. I'm seeing a behavior in these live shopping where I think people are buying things in a subconscious form of a tip for the entertainment they're getting. Live social shopping is the next frontier for social media. In Europe, in the US In Latam, social media as we knew it is no longer here. I think we're in the era of interest media. I'm sure it's not lost on you, given what you do, that the algorithms now work. That content that you're interested in comes to you, not necessarily who you decided to follow.

In that there's a lot. So if you are ideological about creative needs to be a very artistic journey of intuition, guessing feel, which by the way, I like a lot of those things, especially intuition. And you have complete disrespect and zero interest in looking at numbers. You're going to get caught in this era because creative now creates the reach in this industry. For the last 70 years, working media has been disguising bad creative in the era we're about to go into. I believe working media is going to amplify good creative because for the first time in the history of this industry, we can measure good creative. Because creative doesn't reach people in these algorithms anymore unless people like them, which like the content, which is the definition of good creative. Not who wins a Cannes lion. Not if you say that that was a good TV spot. Not if I say I like that idea. The scaled consumer. And so I think data matters now, you know, and I, by the way, this is interesting, I would say especially because I'm a businessman who loves marketing. I actually am more art creative. I actually more idea intuition. I'm just not disrespectful to data. And I definitely, when people say data informed, I think it's data contextualized to start ideation. Right. I'm not letting math tell me what to do, but I need to know context and I definitely need to know how the algorithms work because distribution is a very important part of our industry. When the radio was invented, that was the distribution and how you wrote copy for a live read as a radio host, that became the game of why somebody would buy Budweiser or whatever they were buying. When television became the distribution, we all had to learn how to make a 30 second video. The first commercials were all radio spots. It was a picture and it sounded like a radio. And so I was fascinated by that. We are now in the era of social media and we need to know how to make pictures and videos that get actual views. The creatives and the strategists in creative agencies who disrespect that have become dinosaurs. Perfect. And.

With creativity and the importance of context, how does that fit with the ethos and psyche of being social first and why social first?

You know, so the first part of your question is for everything. Like, right. Like no matter what you do, if you're trying to convey a message that is part of it, whether you were writing a book right after the printing press was invented or whether a new social network starts tomorrow. And I'm trying to figure out how to make it work there. The reason it's different now in a social first environment is it now is the primary device and distribution center. These seven or eight platforms. We don't have the ability to have the media hide our bad idea. And even more importantly when we do, because that happens all the time. You can waste $10 million on social like that make four pieces of content that you're guessing and spend 8 million amplifying it. But you can see that it's bad. And on television you couldn't. And on billboards you couldn't. And on newspapers you could see it a year later to measure the business results. But it was all mucky and hard. And that's why we have mmms and all these things in our industry. But that's why this distribution and I will tell you a secret, that's why so many people don't want this distribution to win. It's too merit based.

You can't hide from the numbers, you.

Can'T hide from the. And it's so fascinating. You can't hide from the truth of did humans like.

Scares the living shit out of creatives in our industry?

I think creativity for so long has been subjective. But the problem is with social as a platform, it's no longer strictly subjective. It is objective. You're getting the numbers, you're getting the data.

And I would argue that everybody who loves creativity should be thrilled. You know, once they get over the hump of they can't disguise through the gift of gab. I say this all the time to my contemporaries. I'm like, I would have loved the 60s me with my gift of gab. Over a cocktail in the middle of the day. I'd have the biggest agent. I would make Don Draper look like crap. Once you get over that, it's not that anymore. A funny thing happens. You actually get more creative. Do you know how many creatives are frustrated by their account? People change it, the client changes it. When they give it to a production company, they don't make exactly what they thought. Then you get a fancy director who makes commercials and they add their two and by, by the end time comes out, it's not theirs. I actually encourage creatives to get over the fear and realize this is the golden era of creativity. It really genuinely is. Some of the stuff that we're doing at Vayner would have never been approved if it was in a TV format. And some of it's been the most impactful work that that brand's ever felt. Because when you get 20 million organic views, people saw it. People saw it. You also get the consumer insights from all the comments. There's a lot to this. This industry likes to look at social down here. It is way up here.

So a two part question.

Why is organic social important and is it under threat from reduced fact checking on social media?

First part, social. Organic is so important because it can mitigate the risk that has always been in place for the last 70 years of marketing, which is the creative variable.

Period. I'd like to think I'm now looking at camera. I'd like to think you understand what I said. I'll say it one more time in a different way. It allows us to see what consumers actually like and then we can make informed decisions to level that up into campaign work or amplify it itself through media and, and that drives more business results than every other thing we do in advertising.

Is it at risk for lack of fact checking? I would tell you that most of the stuff that is going on in mainstream media.

Is become so politicized that the level of trust on the end consumer of what they're seeing on the left or right news.

Or on all the websites where what are you gonna buy banner? Like what happens with the money? You gonna buy banner ads on websites? Like what are you gonna buy commercials on BBC or NBC or CBS or Fox News?

It's even funny when you just ask that question. It's funny how hot the topic of like fake news and social was. It's almost like everything's fucking fake. Which is devastating. Right? That. And by the way, I actually have an optimistic view on this. I actually think humans now have to critically think, which I actually think, like, you know, it is one step backwards, two steps forward. I've always thought in 10, 15 years there's a good to a lot of what has happened. I don't see any indication that it's at risk. But I will say something that I'd like you to know. I am not overtly passionate about social media. I'm just obsessed with where people's attention is today. If tomorrow Zucks comes out with the glasses and we all leave the phone right, that would change distribution. I'm not crying. I'm actually pumped because I know it's going to take people time to figure out what works. That's a strength of mine I've been good at historically. I'd like to think I'm not washed up yet of moving fast and understanding the context of distribution, the creative, the media. But if I was doing this interview with you in 2000, I would be talking about search the way I talk about social or email marketing. I have no romance to where the consumer decides to give its attention. I just have no romance to what they used to give their attention to. And I think that's a big scarlet letter of our industry.

Yeah, you're just a realist that's adapted to the times.

Because I got taught marketing through the fear of not having it work for my family business. I didn't come up academia. I didn't come up agency or brand marketing training. I came up of this has to work. And I also had. I got very lucky. I didn't realize this until maybe even five years ago. I also knew there was gonna be a day I was gonna leave my dad's business. Cause it was his business and I was doing everything for him and I was getting paid very little, which I have feelings about that and you know, but I love my parents so much and I wanted to leave it in good shape. So I was doing something that it was so much smarter than I realized. It's what everybody wants for me here in ad land. I was driving sales while building brand. I knew that my dad was going to measure everything I did by did the cash register get the money. And I don't know if you can see this, but I'm getting a lot of goosebumps. I just don't innately I understood I was gonna leave and I had to build Wine Library. I changed my dad's store name to Wine Library and I built Wine Library. And it transpired when I left the business, it declined, but it didn't collapse. And that was because the brand had value. And that's what everyone's asking of me. They want their numbers Quarterly. These are all Fortune 500 companies that need to report but they do wanna build brand and I think that really helped me. And to your point, I'm a realist because I know what marketing is supposed to do. Not be an outlet for my below average creativity that I wasn't good enough to go to Hollywood and do the big boy game. It's a function to drive a business and I keep that very real.

Thank you.

So slightly moving on. Are you excited about the rise of social shopping and who should brands be learning from?

I'm obsessed, so this is always funny. I'm glad I'm getting to say this on camera. I get too much credit for predicting things. I just talk about things that have happened. Right. I'm just a big fan of what's actually happened. What I'm about to talk about has been going on in China for 10 years.

The Chinafication, the QVC Ification, the east coming to the west is happening with this Live social shopping is the next frontier for social media in Europe, in the US in LATAM, TikTok shop whatnot is an app that has completely exploded. As an independent, I can't imagine that Zucks and Meta are sitting around and saying yeah, let them have all that money. So I think you'll see Google and Meta get into the game. Twitter X.

Brands can easily look at this if they literally Google or GPT. Show me 10 examples of people that are winning a live. You know who's done a great job. Abercrombie and Fitch has like resurrected their business on the back of TikTok affiliate and live shopping. So I'm very passionate about it. I have a separate business called Veefriends which is my attempt to build a Pokemon, Marvel, Disney, Sesame Street World and it's super creative and fun. I'm building my whole business on live social shopping. Selling trading cards, collectible pins, building community. There's a concept I have called commerce tainment. I'm seeing a behavior in these live shopping where I think people are buying things in a subconscious form of a tip for the entertainment they're getting. You know how you and I would like would pay 150 bucks to go see a comedy show because it's an entertainment. I think people are getting some of those elements in live shopping. So I'm obsessed with live shopping.

Do you think that the revenue to be had there is through volume? Are people making these purchases because they are low risk and low value?

That's a great question. I would say yes. Ish. I'm going to be overly transparent, I bought a $20,000 trading card last night on live social shopping on the way to the airport. That is true. So one of the first movers in live social shopping in Europe and America is the collectible space. And those are big ticket items. I've watched people buy a $45,000 comic book on live shopping, but I think your point's well taken for our Fortune 500 set. I do think that they are. It's more common to buy an $85 hoodie or a $15 nightlight than let's say, a $500,000 ring. However, I do predict comfortably that this will go through the same thing that social media did when I was there in 2007. 8, 9. Everyone's yeah, but will people buy expensive stuff? And I don't think it's lost on anyone. There are people who bought million dollar watches on one post on Instagram. And again, this is where I not guessing. In China, there's a handbag lady who's doing $8 million a show selling $40,000 handbags one second at a time. So, yeah, I think people buy big ticket items on this.

What sets Advertising Week apart from other industry events? And why do you think it's a must attend?

You know, I think Advertising Week stands out for me personally because of just the caliber. You know, there's other, you know, first and foremost, it's one of the few events in a year where the industry comes together at scale. But in comparison to several others that have that going for them, I think it's the caliber, you know, I think you're just getting decision makers, you're getting real brands, you're getting real executives from real agencies and just a plus caliber of humans.

For you personally attending, what do you look to get out of Advertising Week?

There's a lot of things that go through my mind when I go to Advertising Week. First, serendipity, to be honest. You know, just even walking in between these interviews, somebody saying hello or me saying hello to somebody, somebody that used to work for us, catching up. You know, obviously at this point in my career, I. I have enough of a presence and awareness and notoriety that people may come up and want to have a conversation with me, which is always business development or karma for me. Both are actually. I'm so grateful for how I was parented. It is equally exciting to me if somebody comes up to me out here saying, I want to give you our money and work with you as it is, saying, hey, can you quickly make a selfie video for my nephew. He's a big fan. Or, hey, can you get me a job at this company that you're an investor in? So these kind of events really work for me. And then, you know.

I like sharing my subjective, potentially wrong, occasionally right points of view on our industry. What's happening in marketing, the state of the union. I like sharing. You know, I don't hold our company secrets in. I like being part of this community. You know, it's been a journey for me. I was very much an outsider and a loud one and was very convicted in something most people didn't believe in. So 15 years in events like this are enjoyable because of the journey. You know, just fruitful conversations, fruitful opportunities, and honestly, learning. You know, as much as I love yapping, I would tell you that most of my yapping comes from a lot of listening before I decide to yap. So listening to people's different points of view, I'm actually always scared to be delusional or high on my own supply. So listening to other talks or things in the hallway, you know, I like changing my mind. And an event of this caliber often is a place that begins the seed of me changing my mind. Perfect.

I think it's refreshing to hear about not being afraid to be wrong and willing to learn and share those experiences.

I would argue that I'm predominantly wrong and occasionally right. You know, I think it's a game of maybe and adjusting. I think adaptability is important.

I'm not unaware of what's happened in my career. I know that people, you know, look to me. I've got a good track record of being right. It's because I actually don't talk about a lot of things. I spend so much time before I get to a conclusion, and I spend almost all of it on the counterpoint. Currently, I'm infatuated with AI influencers. Right. Influencers that are not real. I believe it's gonna be a very big market. Almost all of the reading and thinking I'm doing right now is the social pushback against fake people. But I'm also 49 now. I remember when online dating was taboo and humans looked at that very negatively. I'm also a historian. I know when electricity was considered demons and humans thought electricity should not go in people's homes, we should continue to use candles. So, you know, I think there's a lot of pride in saying, I'm sorry or I was wrong. I don't want to do it. I think it can hurt your credibility. I think you could suffer reputational value if you're consistently wrong. And things also change a lot of times. Like, Gary, you said this. I'm like, yes, in 2016, when this other thing didn't exist. So, yeah, I think humility is not very obvious in the way that I communicate, but I think the people closest to me know that that tends to be one of my strengths.

No, that's refreshing to hear. You mentioned about reading research and insights. You're often looked to as a thought leader and an opinion people trust. Where do you glean your insights?

From the consumer. I think what's wild about how I do it, and this probably has to do with some underlining dyslexia and how I learned and why I was such a bad student. All. All of it. All of what I talk about is based on listening to actual human beings in real life at the airport and the store, at conferences like this, not for their observations of how they actually are interacting. Meaning. Some people tell me, like, this form of marketing. I had an executive tell me something about outdoor media while I was in a bus with them to an event where they looked at their phone the whole time. And I was laughing about the hypocrisy of like. Because my point was, like, how could it be as valuable as it was 20 years ago when the phone is so I watch people like crazy. I've always done that my whole life. I grew up at my dad's small liquor store, and when I worked in that store stocking shelves or standing behind the Register, 100% of my favorite part was watching a customer come in and trying to figure out why. It was in me. The curiosity was in me. So I read. I read comments and commentary and reactions like, why are people upset about AI Creative from an ideology of like, this is not right. Because the creator of this form of style is upset about like. I try to. Why? Why, why, why? And so I got very fortunate. I used to do it in real life, but that was not so scalable. I was one human seeing what I saw. When the Internet came first, it was bulletin boards. I lived on them. I read every single post on the three major wine bulletin boards in 1996-1999. Every single post.

And then when Twitter came, it completely changed the course of my career because I could read everything about everything about everything. And back then, you're a youngster. Back then, day one, Twitter, when I was there, people weren't thinking about people watching them or what did it mean. So you were getting clean insights on who's popping in music and what flavors are delicious and what's getting out of fashion, and who do people actually like or not like. And that started the journey. And so I get my insights from the actual consumer. I do a lot of social listening, a lot of Internet listening, and a solid amount of human listening. I do a lot of dinners with 20 people, debating things, gathering info.