Is Whole Life Better Than IUL? (Chris Kirkpatrick Interview)

All right, what's going on? Ladies and gentlemen, in today's video I have a very special Guest, founder of Life180 and specialize is in helping people with infinite banking using whole life. Welcome to the channel, Mr. Chris Kirkpatrick. Give a little background on yourself and go ahead and dive right on in.

Yeah, yeah, totally, yeah. So I have been in the business for about 15 years in the life insurance space. I started actually as an IUL agent with one of the top IUL companies in the country. Spent about four and a half years in that space. I became the director of business development for them. My job was to train and recruit and develop agents.

After a period of time I realized IUL was not in alignment with what I thought it was actually doing, that it was being misrepresented and that was a top down issue from the carriers. And so I honestly just became disenchanted with the industry. And then what I realized was I found whole life insurance and whole life insurance, I was like, wow, this is actually everything that I thought I'd been selling was actually this thing called whole life insurance. And so I became really curious about it, went deep down an educational path, learning about it. And I've spent since then the past decade just really trying to educate people about the power of whole life insurance as a foundational asset. You know, I, I love the infinite banking concept. I love like a lot of these different, I don't know, marketing names that we all give, like whole life insurance and, and different strategies, whatever that go along with it. But at the end of the day, you know, I, I like, I love just utilizing life insurance in all the different flexible ways that you're able to utilize it. I just believe that my, my firm belief is that everybody at some point in time needs a whole life insurance policy. Are you ready for it now?

No.

And I think, I mean, maybe not, right? And I think that's the one differentiator between the way that I do it and other people do it is like a lot of people will be like, we do infinite banking, that's all we do. And like bang, bang, bang. It's like they're a hammer, everything's a nail. Go get the infinite banking policy. It's going to solve all your problems. But my philosophy is more along the lines of like, there's no product is going to solve your problems, period. Right. Like the policy can be a great asset, it could be a great tool, but do you know how to utilize that money as a tool? And so the value of that tool is less to do with the, the asset and more to do with who are you and are you becoming who you need to become to leverage that asset? And that's why, like a whole life insurance policy in my hands with me having access to all the benefits it provides is going to be wildly different than maybe somebody who's 25 and not as experienced and not as networked and, you know, whatever. So it really is a combination of personal growth and transformation, expansion, and then having the right financial structure and utilizing the right tools that will help you become who you need to become to create the life that you want to live.

Got it. And obviously there's a lot to unpack there. First thing I would want to touch on is you said you, you worked for one of the major IUL companies, you kind of became disenchanted and disillusioned with the way that they were representing it. And what, in your opinion is the biggest problem with, like, how most people are selling that product and where, where does your biggest issue with it kind of stem from?

Well, I mean, my biggest issue with it was when I spoke to the head actuary at this company after learning some stuff. I mean, it was a long conversation, but the, the, the summary of it was him telling me, chris, the reason that we started shifting from Whole Life to IUL is because the company is trying to shift the risk from the company to the policyholder. Right. And the problem with IUL is not that it's a bad product. I don't believe in good or bad. I believe in aligned or misaligned with what your goals and objectives are. Right. And so IUL actually has use cases. It's just the problem is IUL is being sold for tax free retirement. IUL is sold for infinite banking. IUL is sold for real estate investors. The problem is those are the three areas that it's sold the most, and they're the areas where it works the worst.

Right.

Like it doesn't work at all in the long run. And that tho those are areas where whole life insurance is actually the solution. That's where, that's where my disenchantment came from. And so my biggest thing is I wrote a book called IUL Exposed the Truth about the Most Misrepresented Product in financial history. And you know, it's not good or bad. It's not. IUL isn't a bad product. It's, it's great in certain instances for what it's used from a legacy planning perspective. Right. Like if you're talking estate planning, IUL can be great. It can provide more levers, it can give you more death benefit for less cost. With Guarant, you know, if you use the right riders and you do it the right way, it's got a great use case. It's just not for the tax free income and the, and the tax free access to capital that everybody sells it for.

Got it. So what do you think if someone's watching this and they're selling iul because for us, right, like we're primarily a marketing company. So sure, if you look at what do most people in the industry sell? Like if we were advertising that we would help you generate leads for Whole Life Infinite Banking. Like we would have. No, nobody would click on our eyes. So we have to speak to people that are selling IUL because that's what's hot and that's what people want. Right?

I know, but for somebody who's doing.

That, like, let's say they're watching this video and they're like, okay, like I'm open to a different, different opinion, what can they do differently in either the way that they're representing it or how would you recommend, like, what would you recommend someone to sell in place of IUL for tax free retirement?

Whole Life. I mean, the bottom line is this. You should never utilize or lean on any cash value life insurance as a primary source of income in retirement. You should. All life insurance should be used as part of a bigger strategy, right? So Whole life insurance works as a great volatility buffer. It's a great bond alternative. I know, like people like David McKnight like to say, you know, with this Power Zero stuff, that IUL is a great bond alternative. It's not like, look at history. Whole Life is a great bond alternative. Tom Wall is a, he's got his PhD in retirement income planning and he's, he wrote an amazing book called Permission to Spend. And he goes deep into this topic. Anybody that wants to really go down that path, that's like one of the best books to keep it like really simple and understandable, yet also super academic at the same time. Great book. But I would say that Whole Life is the answer. But it's, but it's not that the product is going to solve all your problems. And I think that's one of the big problems I have with IUL is it's, it's, it's people selling it being like, all right, you know, all you have to do is put 500 bucks a month away in this policy for the next 30 years and you're going to get $300,000 a year of income, you know, like some absurd number that is just like if that's how it worked, I got news for you. Like, so I went through all Brendan Burchard. Do you know Brendan Burchard by chance? He lives in, or he lived in Puerto Rico for a while, but he, he, he had, he, he's a high performance coach. And so Brennan always says common sense is rarely, is, is seldom common practice, right? And so if we could implement a little common sense in this business and be like, all right, if that was actually the case, it's basically better returns than Berkshire Hathaway is able to get, right? So if they could actually do that, Warren Buffett would sell everything he has and dump all his money into these things. You know what I mean? Because if it, if it really is true that it could do all these things for you and have no risk to it, you can't lose your money to market loss and all these things. This upside, potential downside protection conversation, if it really worked like that, let's just use common sense guys and look at the wealthiest people in the world would be doing this and they're not. You know, you don't even need to look at all the other stuff. And I've, I've, in my book, I go through every little nuanced detail of, of why that's the case on why they don't work and how they're misrepresented and how they actually work. And the question that you asked is how whole life would be the better alternative. It's all in the book, right? Like, but I would say this is, you know, life insurance isn't, isn't the main source of income life insurance, whole life insurance specifically should be the foundational asset in your financial structure that you utilize and leverage to go create income and in revenue streams in other areas, right? So the Nelson Nash, the guy who created the infinite banking concept, said, it's funny, the more money that I have in my whole life policies, the more opportunity has a way of tracking me down, right? And so that's really what it, it is. So my whole coaching process is like, hey, if I were coaching you, Tim, I, I, I basically say, hey, this is the process. Just go save money in a whole life policy. Don't look at your whole life policy as an investment, just start saving in it. And while you're saving in it, figure out how are you going to leverage it, right? Like, how are you going to leverage that to actually go create windfalls of capital. Right. Because access to capital is king. Agreed.

Yeah. A hundred percent. Right.

That's where opportunity comes from. So if you started with nothing and I showed you, hey, Tim, like let's start saving money in a whole life policy. And as your policy starts gaining more and more capital right inside of it and your capital reserve keeps increasing, my challenge to you is who are you going to become in the process as that grows, are you going to elevate with it and be able to work towards like, I'm looking for real estate and I understand all the nuances. I'm going to buy a business, I'm going to do private money lending. I'm going to like whatever it is, I don't care. But the beautiful thing is why I love the phrase be willing to go slow, to go fast is like, there's a lot of value in the fact that by you having this kind of grow over here slowly in your policy and you kind of growing with it, think about the mistakes that that helps you avoid. You know, like people, people that make money fast typically blow money fast and lose money fast by making irrational decisions. But when you have a system that you plug into and you are committed to growing and elevating and taking a year or two or three to like really plug into real estate masterminds and mentorship and so on and so forth, if that's your world, well then when you finally find a deal to leverage the capital, the odds of that deal being a big time winner are way higher. You know what I mean? And that's one of the areas that people don't like. This is the kind of thing that's really hard to say in a 60 second reel on TikTok, you know what I mean? Or Instagram, you know, but this is, it's all the flash that everybody else talk about. But the product isn't the secret, you are the secret. The product is simply the best holding tank for your safe capital. And if you want to do something significant in real estate and business, you are going to need safe capital, period. You're going to need a foundational asset that's there to back your business and real estate up. That's a principle that's undeniable.

Fair enough. For sure. Yeah. No, a hundred percent. So I know, I mean, so now a lot of people that I look up to, like, they have a, like, I know Gormosi has a whole, like, I think he buys most of their companies using his whole life insurance policy. Yep. From my understanding, it's a, I mean, it's a, it's a tried and true method that works totally.

Exactly. And so, so, so the question is if you know that's a principle. The, the, this is the, this is the thing that IUL people go again, you know, into the bi term and invested difference. People will try to convince you, like, why would you put your money in a whole life insurance policy? Because it doesn't get a good return compared to my buy term and invest the difference. Right. Like I would buy a term policy and just get better returns. It's not about that. It's about access to capital, control and controlling the cost of capital in other business deals and creating opportunity with this. So if you know that that's the case and I need safe money to, to become like an Alex hero, well then the question then becomes, what's the best safety, safe place to keep my money? And a whole life policy is far and away the best place.

What would you say to the IUL people that, that their, their, I guess their objection or rebuttal to that would be, yes, whole life is like the safer version, but the IUL is just higher risk, high return.

I mean, it's, it's not proven.

You know, does technically IUL provide more upside potential? On paper, sure. But hist. Historically speaking, it's never really played out like that over a period of time. IUL is still a very much a financial experiment. There's not one person alive that's used in IUL saved in an IUL and then utilized it to its full potential in retirement the way that they're being sold, right? Not one person alive can say, I've lived the whole life cycle of an IUL the way it was sold to me successfully. So to me, in my world, I look at it as like, all right, like I don't want to speculate with life insurance. IUL is super speculative. I want, if, if you believe IUL is the thing for you in that instance, I will say to you is like, you probably shouldn't do iul. You should go speculate elsewhere because you're going to have way more upside in other speculative type assets. You know what I mean? If you want to utilize life insurance, well then you're utilizing life insurance for the safety, the guarantees, the protection, the foundational nature of what it provides you, right? Well then whole life kills iul. And if you're really looking at it for the speculative growth potential, well then there are a lot of other assets that kill iul. Right? And so it's the, the, the problem with IUL is it really does nothing better than any other asset. It doesn't win in any of the areas that it says it does. Well, you know what I mean? Like better returns, I got index funds, better safety, I got whole life insurance. Right? Like, it's like I could go all through this and it's just, it's why IUL is just way overhyped. But, but the reason is because IUL pays way higher commissions, you know, so, you know, top contracts are going to be 30%. Totally.

Is that the reason you think it's pushed more by the industry is just the recommissions are higher?

I think, I think because the three letter IMO's out there, the FFLs, WFGs, PFAs, PHPs, those organizations, the world, they all sell IUL because the hierarchy and the companies that sell IUL interfaced with those MLMs really well. Because whole life companies don't interface well with MLM companies. They don't allow you to do the hierarchy in the same way. They don't build in multi generational comp plans the way the mlm, like the way the IUL companies have. So IUL companies are smart. They, they played the game, you know, they provided a product to these companies that did distribution and it is what it is. You know, like that's. And, and there's 30% more comp available for most IUL companies on the top of what a whole life insurance policy would be. And so like if you're thinking about being able to build a compensation plan and push that down to your leaders in the field and still make money on the top, like from a business perspective, you know, it's wildly more profitable, you know, does that make it right? No, you know, but that's fair enough.

Yeah. And it's, it's interesting to see like, you know, at the end of the day, it's, it's interesting how what people sell is dictated by what the IMO sell. Like, it's all, it's all basically controlled by the top. And where the most compost in all reality, like the reason certain care or certain carriers are pushed that start with an A and end with an O is simply because of the comp, not necessarily because it's a better product. And at the end of the day, like obviously agents are in business to make money. Like if you sell something that produces zero comp, then you wouldn't have any sales force. But I think you have to strike that balance in terms of like what's good for you, but then also good.

For the client totally 100 woody for.

Someone watching this that maybe they have heard about whole life a little or, you know, and any. Anytime it's. It's funny, I talk about. I was talking to a couple people at our company about this is like, humans are so funny how tribal we get. Like, there's no better example in terms of how tribal humans are by the fact that there's literally like people that hate whole life guys and then whole life guys that hate IUL guys. And like, if you look at that from like a third party perspective, it's like, what are you doing? Like, why do we hate each other over a life insurance product? It gets, it's very, it always gets super heated anytime that this is talked about at all. But what would you say to someone who's maybe selling IUL that is open to exploring other options and they just want to do what's best for their client? What should they look at in terms of whole life, when should they sell that versus iul? Because you also mentioned they're the right kind of sell iul.

Like what.

What would you do in that situation?

Yeah, yeah. I mean, iul, the problem is iul, the right time to sell IUL is to high net worth people for estate planning. That's the only place. The problem with IUL for most people, especially these MLMs, is it just being sold to middle America as a tax free accumulation vehicle and a tax free retirement vehicle. And that's the absolutely most dangerous way to sell it. And if you're doing that right now, you're gonna hurt, you're gonna hurt relationships potentially, like, pretty bad.

What I would say is, like, if you are currently doing that, I would say the reason you're selling IUL is you're selling it for long term solutions for people, right? And so the problem is I see a lot of people from a short term perspective, they're in the business for 2, 3 years policy still in surrender, period. And, and so they, they've convinced themselves that everything's okay because the policies have been performing okay. Because we've been in this great bull run and they have performed okay. Like, it's not horrible yet. I've done a thing called the IUL challenge. I'm offering $25,000 just to kind of put my money where my mouth is, right? Like $25,000 to somebody during the greatest bull run. Okay, let's, let's, let's set this.

We can all agree to agree. We've been living in the greatest bull run of all time for the past 10 to 15 years, right? For sure.

Yeah, 100%.

So with that said, IUL is sold how? With upside potential and downside protection. Right. People position IUL illustrations as being conservative because the caps, I, you know, and they're like, these are conservative illustrations. Right. And so that's how most of them are sold. And so for the last decade, and it could be older, but I say the IUL challenge says if they're sold with upside potential and downside protection, and we're coming through the greatest bull run of all time, every IUL sold over the past decade should have outperformed its conservative illustration because it should be participating in the upside potential in the greatest bull run. If they can't participate in the upside potential in the greatest ball run of all time, what the hell are we even talking about? You know what I mean? Does that make sense?

Yeah, I guess the. The objection to that would be the advantage would be that the tax benefits, because you obviously don't get that if you just buy the S and P. Yeah.

I mean, but if you die, I mean, the death benefit is there, but like, but, but. So, okay, so now you're telling me, like, how many people are buying these Iuls thinking like, okay, I'm buying this because the only way I get to win with it is if I die.

Probably a small percentage.

Yeah, very small percentage. Right. If any, you know, like one. 1,000th of a percent, probably. So, so when we look at that, like, if, If. If my. My. My thesis was. And I did this like three years ago, was like, if the greatest bull run of all time, you know, if. If we haven't been able to even have a policy that's 10 years old once the surrender period ends. Because that's the thing, the surrender cycle. As the surrender period goes later, the company can change the moving pieces of the policy so they're always in control. Early on, when it looks like it's doing well, you have a lot of surrender fees. Later on, when the surrender fee goes down, they have the ability to manipulate the cap rates, par rates, spread charges, all the different, you know, admin fees, cost of insurance, whatever, all the things depending on the company. And so we're offering $25,000 to somebody and have been offering $10,000 for the past couple years. We just upped it to 25,000 to somebody that's got a policy that's 10 years old or more that has the original illustration with a current in force illustration showing that it at least did just all it has to do is match. It doesn't even have to beat it based on the fact that we came through the greatest bull run. It has to just match it at a minimum. And I've had not one person. So either one of two things are true. Either IUL agents don't like money and, you know, whatever, which I don't think that's the case, or.

IUL is the most overhyped, misrepresented product in the history of the world. And I don't care what everybody says about how they're doing for the last couple years. It's talk. You're not selling a couple year results, you're selling a longer term period of results. And the reason I did this, result over a 10 year period. Everybody that's in these MLMs, their answer to me, the reason I did this, everybody that's it's in these MLMs for the past three, four, five years. And, and you know, we have a lot of people that joined the business in Covid, right? And they're like, ah, I'm like coming up on my five year anniversary and it's like, all right, you all have mentors, right? And they're like, well, I, I don't have any policies that I could show because I haven't been in the business long enough. It's like, you have mentors and those mentors should be able to provide you, you know, the results. Once again, unless you guys just don't want the 25k. I don't know, like, it's just me.

Makes sense. Yeah, I've seen you mentioned the IUL challenge. It's interesting. No one has provided anything up to this point. 25k is a lot of money. So if you're watching this video and you have it hit up.

Chris, you know what's funny too is how many people are like, oh, I got it, I got it, I got it, no problem. And they just like get in the chat talking like, just to like prove a point and then nobody does it. It's. It's like, yeah, it's laughable at this point in time.

Yeah, it's wild for somebody like, you know, because obviously, let's say you make over 161k a year. You can't put money into a raw. That's kind of where the big the IUL piece comes into play. Would you just tell somebody to put money into a whole life insurance policy instead to get the tax benefits?

Yeah, Think about it. So I do this thing called cash flow hacking. We do whole life insurance and you save Money in whole life insurance. And when you combine whole life insurance with real estate and you get all the tax benefits of the growth of the real estate, plus you know, the ability to depreciate your homes and depending on, on, you know, everybody's a little bit differently if you're a real estate professional versus just an investor or whatever. But you know, there's, there's all these benefits that, that go along with the combination of real estate and whole life insurance or business and whole life insurance that, that will destroy what IUL can do.

But that just comes down to if you're thinking that you're just going to put your money into a whole life policy or an or, or an IUL and it's going to be the solution to all your problems, just don't put your money into that product because it's not going to help you. Yeah, like, you know, I mean a whole life policy can help from a legacy perspective and a savings alternative perspective and you know, so on and so forth. But you just need to understand the value of the policy is really dictated by how you plan on leveraging it. Are you planning on using it to make sure you have access to capital that's cheaper and higher interest rate environments when you want to buy cars. And you know, because you can't calculate like what's the value of that. Like, I went, dude, I just bought a camper trailer, right, to pull behind my Jeep Gladiator. And I went down, dude, I got like a 7, 760 credit score or whatever and, and I go in and we, and we apply. I was going to get a loan for it because I, you know, I, we were just driving through California. I was like, I want to buy a trailer. I'm tired of staying in hotels. And so we went to buy a trailer and it was too long to get a whole life policy loan, right? Because I, it would take, you know, 72 hours to get the money. And I wanted it like that night. And like, you know, it just is what it is. You know how this stuff goes. So I, I was like, I can't just get a loan. So I, I went with a 760 credit score. The interest rate was 18% on a camper trailer. And so like, and the only thing, it was such a cool experience for me to go through. Cause I was just like, how many people are doing this? Like, and how many people are doing it and paying like 25% because they got like a 680 credit score or some crap like that, you know what I mean? And so like, wealthy people understand that controlling your cost of capital is one of the most important things that you can do, right? So it's not about like getting these big rates of return. It's about, hey, a penny saved is a penny earned in the world that I come from, right? And so we're always, we're always going to be doing these things and spending money in different areas. So if I could show you how you could be more efficient with every dollar that flows through your world, how you buy your cars, how you make major capital purchases for your businesses, you know, how you finance major investments that, that you're doing to expand and grow. Like, these are all things that wealthy people and successful people understand you need to be concerned with way more about than your rate of return in investment. You know what I mean? Like, so if you want to start to reading the optics, you're going to think about it.

I remember reading becoming your own banker and it talks about how I think it was like, majority of people are, they're basically saying like 30% interest or 30% of every dollar they make is going towards interest. But you know, they're concerned about getting like, how can I get 12% of the stock market?

Crazy. So true. That's it. That's it. And so it's, it's absolutely nuts. It's nuts. But this is the world we live in. People have been programmed to do that. And so we're on a mission to just educate people to start thinking about the metrics that actually.

Help you reach your results that you're after. So I have a new thing. I, I call it the new ror. Instead of rate of return, what's the rate of result? Right? Like what are you doing and how fast is it going to get you to the result that you're after in life? Don't worry about the return. Worry about like how, how fast are you getting towards that result that you're actually after?

Like, why is there not. Why is doing this with whole life insurance? Like, why is it not more of a well accepted concept, not just within the insurance industry, but like, why are the guys like Dave Ramsey? Why are they so big versus we're talking?

Yeah. Well, it's just timing. It's when they started. So I don't know how old you are. I'm 45, so I was born in 1980.

23.

Okay. Also, you're like half my age. Wow, thanks. Now I feel so. There you go. All right. Rock and roll. I was out of high school before you were cool. I was in college when you were born. That's awesome. Um, so. So when Dave Ramsey came out, when Al Williams started up like Primerica effectively, right. And the buy term and invested difference concept started, we were in a world that was wildly different. The federal funds rate was 19%, right. And we lived in this world of declining interest rate environment, right? So what happened was if you bought a Whole life policy at 19 in that interest rate environment and the dividend rates kept going down and down and down and down and down while Whole life policies way underperformed. And so like what they were sold to people, the illustrations that people were sold to. So I equate and listen, Whole Life earned its reputation because it's not that it was a bad product ever, it was just a misrepresented product in the 80s because agents are lazy for the most part, right? They if I could show you an illustration and it looks so good because the dividend rate's 14% and I'm like, hey, look at this, it's amazing. And look at the guarantees. And they talk about the guarantees and they don't talk about the non guaranteed and how that works. You know, the difference is this day and age we're in a low interest rate environment where everything's going up, you know what I mean? And I think either interest rates are going to remain relatively flat or they're going to go up, in which case what we're looking at right now with Whole Life dividends is they're near 90 year lows. Like literally three years ago they were the lowest they've been in 90 years. Right now there are just a couple percentage points above that. And so looking at that, it's like I can look at my Whole Life policy illustrations and with, with a lot of confidence be like, I think it's actually going to perform better than what it's illustrated as. Whereas back then Dave Ramsey and Art Williams were like, look at how bad these policies are. They never perform very well. And it's not like, guess what, if you bought bonds back then bonds got less and cheaper and cheaper and cheaper, right? Like it's it you, you have to equate Whole Life to the fixed asset market because it's a fixed asset. Whole Life insurance companies are basically investing in bonds, AAA rated bonds, mortgage backed securities. And so it's literally just a better bond because the difference is bond funds, you can lose money and Whole Life, the insurance company takes on the risk of losing the money and you get the guarantees. And you know, in his book Permission to spend Tom Wall talks about, he goes, he did a study in his dissertation or PhD, whatever dissertation that showed over the last 80 years, every 10 year period bonds beat whole life. And every 30 year period, the internal rate of return in whole life beat bond funds. So like if we're looking at long term solutions, whole life is just a better bond that's completely liquid. It gives you like savings, like liquidity, money market like, well, money market like liquidity. And you get tax free treatment like you would a muni bond, right? And so you're going to have the growth of bonds and the tax free treatment of muni bonds and money market like liquidity. There's no other asset in the world that's going to be able to do that for you.

So it's basically just like a marketing issue and a reputation issue, kind of like with annuities.

Totally. That's it. And, and listen, like this is the ebb and flow of cycles in different, different industries, right? It's not good or bad, it's just like aligned or misaligned or what. It, what was good at one point in time is no longer good at this point in time and might be good again in the future. Who knows? You know, like, you just gotta understand the ebb and the flow of it all. And just because it was not, it was never bad, it was just misrepresented. Right? That's, that's it.

Got it. That makes perfect sense. So for someone who's watching this, who wants to learn more about how to sell Whole life or what that would actually look like, because I mean, you're right, it is like any mlm, there's not really a, there's not like an infinite banking Whole Life carrier that you can just get. So it's not, it's not a widespread thing. And I think also, I think also a lot of the frustration that probably comes from IUL agents is like people would just label them as immoral when in all reality, if you come into an industry and all you know, is one thing, like that's all you know. So it's also kind of a little bit of a disservice of the industry of not explaining the different options. And that's something that like, part of the reason I brought you on this channel is we do marketing for IUL agents. But I also think there's a lot of people that do Whole Life or people that are selling IUL that would actually rather sell Whole Life. They just don't really know about it. And so yeah, I think the more information People have the better, and they can just make their own decision in terms of what they want to sell and, you know, whatever. 100.

I mean, is there.

Where can people go and find more info?

Yeah, I mean, I got my YouTube channel, I think is the best channel in the world when it comes to like, really understanding how IUL works, how whole life works. The. Comparing the two together. Hundreds and hundreds of videos. I think I got 1600 videos on the channel now. You know, I've been doing it for a decade, and. And I'm kind of like the OG in the space comparing the two against each other, you know, so, like, that's the best place to reach me. I'm on TikTok. Real Chris Kirkpatrick on TikTok and Instagram.

But.

But YouTube is the best place to go because that's the best education, you know, And. And I want to just kind of, like, touch on what you just said, too, is I want to make it really clear I'm not. I never judge anybody like. Like, for selling iul, because I. I got. I was an IUL agent for four and a half years. So me more than anybody understands, like, what it's like to come in and think about this stuff and. And think you're doing the right thing. And then you. You. It takes a long time to figure it out because it's complicated, you know, but one of the reasons that I create the content that I do is because I do It for me, 15 years ago, being like, man, if somebody would have just been there to share this with me so I could have made a faster decision, how many. How fewer people would have been hurt and how much more impact I could have made faster, you know? And so I just. That's why I do what I do to be able to help the people who are, you know, wanting to do it the right way and really wanting to be educated about how this stuff works 100%.

Fantastic. We'll check out Life 180 on YouTube, ladies and gentlemen. Chris, thank you so much for coming on the channel. And sure, we'll have you on again locally soon.

Amazing. Rock and roll, man.

All righty. Very well. See you.