MASTERING THE POWER OF LEADS with Advanced Agent Marketing

Yeah, but you might spend, like, I don't know, five to ten grand to do that.

Yeah.

With annuities. I've seen instances where people literally spend, like, three grand and they get two annuities, but one of them is, like, $1 million annuity.

Stop.

And they're making, like, 80, 90K off of three grand.

There's one caveat that I think is actually worth noting there too is it's not just sold to the chat bot, but over 30% of their claims are currently processed through AI. Yeah. So literally their underwriting department is a fraction of the size, so their.

Their margins are insane.

Oh, dude. Of course.

Yeah.

But, like. And like, maybe they're not right now because they're reinvesting in growth. But the point is, is that, like, it's not just the agents that they are currently replacing, but it's even sides.

Correct. Yeah, correct.

Another episode of Varsity Kings. Shout out to Move Studio being incredible for me, as always. I've been up here since five recording with Humberto. Shout out to Humberto. Amazing. All right, so special guest today, Tim Shuckers. They said that, right?

Yep. Well, sort of, but we'll just roll Shookers. Shooker. Shooker. Yeah.

Yeah, let's go. Is it German?

I think so, yeah. We've been in America for a while, so I don't, like, trace the roots.

Okay.

You know what I mean?

Cool, cool. And then what's your name?

Julian.

Who?

Who?

Leon. Yeah, I don't know if I've heard. That's a. That's like a new var. Tell me your nationality. I'm curious.

Yeah, I'm American, so. I'm from the U.S. nobody's American. Yeah, my dad's. My dad's from Columbia. Okay.

Okay. Yeah, cool. Let's go.

Mom. Mom is from this podunk town and in North Carolina.

All right, cool, Cool. All right, cool.

And then.

So, Tim, when did you get into life insurance? How did you get into life insurance? Combination of both.

Yeah. So good question. So basically, this dude recruited me. We were friends. We are from the same hometown. And so some dude. I mean, I'll let him tell the story of how he got recruited. And I mean, me getting in was pretty. Pretty much just him telling me about it and then wanted to jump in.

Yeah, that was pretty simple. I jumped in with this guy that I was at a. I worked at a fine dine restaurant and I got. They pitch waiter stuff all the time. Okay. You'll hear, like, pyramid schemes. Like, act like actual pyramid schemes. Ponzi scheme. You'll hear like crazy stuff and then like every now and again you'll get like a real genuine business offer where it's like, this guy's legit.

Yeah.

And in the insurance thing, it was like, it seemed almost too good to be true. So I was like on the fence of like, is this a scam or not? But I like took a shot at it. Saw the comp plan, saw all of the credible carriers and everything, like, you know, mutual.

You guys went straight in the brokerage space.

No, we started actually like in the captives.

It was technically captive free lead. So we, the company we worked with, they would send out these free Walmart gift card mailers, like send us back for a free Walmart gift card. And then we would go to Walmart, grab like a stack of gift cards like this thick, go out, knock on people's doors, be like, hey, you know what's going on? Ms. Jones, you sent this back requesting information on free Walmart gift card. And it mentioned something about life insurance as well. And you'd hand them the gift card, get in the door, try to pivot to life insurance and then they'd be pissed when they find out like the gift, gift card's five bucks. Right. Like they think it's a hundred dollar gift card. And that's like the premise that you're coming in on.

This is cooked.

So you know, that kind of, we did that for about eight months, decided that that was not the way that we were going to hear it by any means. 20, 21.

Okay.

Yeah. And so that kind of like spurred what then led us to basically building a lead generation marketing company.

And how much revenue a year does that company do now?

Well, we're growing and scaling. So our best month was in August and that was 500k in a month. And then September we had a little bit of a dip. We made some, some, some boo boos. But we're back on track this month.

Sick. Super sick.

Yeah, bro.

I want to get into, what do you think stops most life insurance agents from scaling? Both of you? I want to get both your takes on it.

I mean I would say it's like, it's really like a combo of things, you know, like for one, I think most people, they get into the insurance space, they don't have any like business sense. Yeah, yeah, they're kind of just like, they're like salespeople, they get recruited into this industry and they're like just thrown into business ownership and by no means are they prepared for it. So I think the first thing is just shifting from, like an employee mindset to being a business owner, which is what you are when you're an independent insurance broker. Right. And so, like, part of that is investing into marketing and viewing it as an investment, not a cost. If you want to talk about what stops people from scaling, I mean, the biggest thing is, like, for us, we spend hundreds of thousands of dollars a month on marketing and ads. And I don't view that as like a cost, but you'll talk to somebody who's, you know, this is an employee and an entrepreneur. Well, for sure. But even entrepreneurs, like, they try to skimp out on marketing.

There's levels of entrepreneurship.

Yeah. Well, like, the one belief that I hold very core and I think is extremely important is like, if you're going to splurge or spend money on anything, it should be the dollars that go and get you more dollars.

Correct.

You know what I mean? Like, someone will be making 20k a month and they'd be like $3,000 a month on marketing is a lot of money. Like, yeah, bro, you're spending ten grand a month on an apartment. You got a car or whatever. Right. But it's like, if I'm going to spend money on anything, it's going to be marketing and it's going to be coaching and investing myself. You know what I mean? So I think like, that scarcity mindset of, like, how can I get the lowest cost lead the lowest cost marketing? How can I invest in myself as little as possible? I think that's what keeps most people small, to be honest.

What about you, Julian Leon?

Yeah.

Do you have, like a nickname?

You can call me?

J.J. is going to work.

Yeah, it's like Julian, but.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think I got it now.

Miami version.

Yeah, yeah. Right. What do you.

What do you think stops people from scaling?

I think what Tim touched on was huge. Just like the employee mindset. There's a lot of, like, underdeveloped skills that people have.

Yeah.

Primarily I see that everyone talks about, like, sales and recruiting. Sales and recruiting. Sales and recruiting. And it's like they're so focused on getting good at those two skills, they forget about all of the, like, adjacent skills that they need. Like leadership. Like, you can't recruit people if you don't have leadership because they're not going to stay.

Yeah.

Or like, you know, for example, systems.

Yeah, right.

You can go and recruit 10,000 agents, but if you don't have any systems, then, like, what are you doing then? Nothing. None of it's going to stick none of it's going to land. So yeah, that's kind of what I see is it's usually like they have underdeveloped, underdeveloped skill sets outside of just the sales and recruiting verticals. And so then they, they kind of just get stuck at the limits of what sales and recruiting can provide. Which is typically only a few hundred K a year in income.

Correct.

Whereas business ownership requires way more.

I think it was Hormozi that said something along the lines of, you only have to sell so hard because your marketing sucks and then you only have to market so hard because your product sucks. Something along those lines. And it kind of makes sense if you think of somebody that has to sell super hard. I worked in the captive space with free leads. I think you guys started with free leads.

Yeah.

The quality of those leads are what garbage. Like if you were to look at the creative and look at like the ad words and you guys know all that ad stuff better than me, I imagine like CPL or like the, the intention behind that lead generation was super low. You know what I mean? Like the quality behind it leads price sucked. Right. Bait and switch type of leads. Whereas like somebody like myself now, with the knowledge I have now on leads, and there's humans out there with not only thousands, but millions of dollars that are waiting to buy the product. They just need to be marketed to. You know what I mean? So I feel like you can't, you can't overspend on marketing to an extent. I feel like, you know what I.

Mean, you're getting your roi.

Like, you can't really overspend on marketing. You know, when I think of like good, good marketing, I'm like, it's worth every penny. I wish I could put more into it because it's a, it's a cheat code for sure. If you got a crack that just. It prints, it always prints a return on investment, dude.

For sure. Well, it's like think of it this way. If you had a machine where you could put $1 in and get $3 out.

Yeah, that's marketing.

How many dollars would you put in?

All of the dollars.

All of the dollars. Right. And then realistically what stops that is either your ads fatigue or something else in your business breaks. Like you can't sell enough and then you got to go recruit agents and then build. So like, I think fundamentally what it comes down to is like just being willing to do more inputs and which is not dials, it's money in the marketing. That's the highest leverage thing you can do to grow your business. From what I see, what do you.

Think is the biggest myth you see around buying leads?

I think like, you know, and I'll kind of zoom out and give a little bit of context on what we do is basically, I don't know which camera to look at, but I'll just look at one of them. So we basically have a marketing company where we help insurance agents generate leads, but essentially they own the whole system. So we build the acquisition system for them, and we brand them as the expert. So they're not just some random cold caller telemarketer that's calling you off of a form fill. And so I think, like, the biggest mistake people make is they will buy leads for years and years and years and years. And when you look at it over a career in the industry, you've invested hundreds of thousands, maybe even millions of dollars into leads. But at the end of the day, if you stopped it, you have nothing. Right. You don't have a brand, you don't have a name, you don't have anything that's worth anything. Right. So it's like the same way you could look at, you know, renting. If you rent an apartment for your whole life. Yeah. You. You know, some people would argue you've pissed away hundreds of thousands of dollars versus if you put that. And you were building equity in a home. Well, now you have equity in a home that you own. Correct. And so it's the same thing with marketing. You know, like, if you're buying leads, you know, from lead center or whatever it is for you, the money you're putting towards that is not building anything for you. And so basically what we do is like, we. We flip that on its head where every dollar you're running is building your brand in insurance. Yeah. Right. So you would be in the ad yourself.

Is it do it for you service 100%.

So people would start to recognize you as the annuity guy, retirement guy, the IUL guy. We have different programs. Some are like high four figures, others are in the five not.

What is it? Is it a percentage of ad spend? I've heard two models. Ad spend or flat rate?

Yeah. So we do a retainer model. Okay. Yeah.

Okay.

It's not based off of ad spend.

Yeah.

I mean, if you're like an. If you're. So for, like, our agency owner clients, we do some, like, Rev shares.

Someone who gets up to like 200, 000amonth.

Exactly. That's obviously different than someone that's spending.

Like, because most People grand a month.

Exactly. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, like that way better than just buy our leads because it gives you that sense of ownership. That's a real. I know. I did a podcast with another vendor. I don't know if they're competitors of yours or not, but it sounds super similar. Big daddy leads, I don't know if you've heard of them, but I think they do something super similar.

Yeah, I know Nick, he's cool.

Oh, okay.

Cool.

Yeah, yeah. So super sick. So why do you guys think so many agents work hard but never actually build freedom?

I think it comes down to the model they're running. I mean, Julian, I'll let you touch on this as well, but like, you know, for us, if there's not a way out, you're not going to get out. You know what I mean? So like when we were doing door to door with free Walmart gift card leads, selling final expense of all things that you can sell. Like I could have done that for 20 years and still been in the same spot. Yeah, like you have to do something and find something that has a compounding component. Right. Like, do you know who Naval Ravikant is?

Thousand percent.

Yeah. So he talks about like the thing focus on something that compounds and play long term games with long term people. Most agents are not in a business model that does that. Right. So it's like I'm going to recruit a bunch of people, but every single person I recruit, 92% of them leave in the first few years. So that's definitely not long term games with long term people. Yeah, they're selling final expense, which a lot of those policies churn off of the books you're selling to broke people.

Like, dude, like, do you know the average lifespan of a final expense policy? It's like two, three years.

Exactly. So like, what's your compound? You're just on a hamster wheel. Recruit the next agent, sell the next policy.

Yeah.

And so like if you're not building your brand, if you're not building renewals, or if you're not posting content like this, for example, you put this podcast at one time, you, we film, film this in 30, 40 minutes, an hour, whatever.

Yeah.

This can get you recruits until literally the Internet explodes and time ends.

Yeah.

So like as many things you can do like that, those are the things that actually compound that, that turn into freedom.

You know, I think that's, I mean, I couldn't have really said it better, to be honest with you. Like the, the majority of the time, what I see is people. They're. They're not even just. It's not even that. They're not even playing long term games with long term people.

Remember my mom?

But they're just chasing a quick check anyways. Yeah, like, they're, they're looking for the. Like, I'll talk to agents all the time. We, we've been working with, directly with agents. We've been agents for years. A lot of the times I'll hear people, they're like, I need, I need to make money quick. I want to get into annuity sales because the checks are huge. And I know that if I get a payout, like, it won't charge me.

I need annuity sales.

Yeah.

We had this guy, like, just come across this random mass of annuity, massive annuity deal, tens of millions of dollars. And I'm like, oh, my God. I was like, that's a unicorn. You know what I mean? But I'm like. And then you guys, you guys, I've not come across anybody that does annuity leads.

Yeah.

And you guys are familiar with annuity. You probably have annuity clients and stuff. Yeah, I might be one of them.

Yeah, sure, man.

But yeah, I'd be one of them.

The thing, the thing I love about annuities is, like, from the marketing perspective. And honestly, like, sometimes it pisses me off because I'll see, like, the ROIs that these guys will get because it's just such a massive, like, you can sell 10 final expense policies and you might make 20 grand. If they're big policies. Yeah, Big and final expense.

Assuming they stick.

Assuming that's the caveat.

Yeah.

But you might spend like, I don't know, five to ten grand to do that.

Yeah.

With annuities, I've seen instances where people literally spend like three grand and they get two annuities, but one of them is like $1 million annuity.

Stop.

And they're making like 80, 90k off of three grand. Now, obviously, to be clear, it's not an income claim. By no means.

That's how you know he's a professional. The disclaimer right there, that's how you know this guy's a professional.

Exactly.

D.C. clips that up. You said they were going to make 80, $90,000.

Now you owe them 80.

Yeah.

ROI guarantee. Let's go. Disclaimer.

Me too. You don't mean disclaimer. All of this is a podcast and I claim none of these facts. Anything I've ever said, I disclaim.

We get a forearm tattoo of an FTC disclaimer anytime I have to just like, hey, by the way, disclaimer is right here.

I love this right here. What's the difference between random Facebook leads and the kind of leads your clients get?

Yeah, so the thing about Facebook and this has changed in recent years, like special ads category.

Well, that.

I mean, that's. Honestly, that doesn't really, like, matter.

It just shows my level of ad intelligence.

It's good.

I wanted to sound cool.

That's why we're. You did what?

Yeah, I'll sound cool to some of the audience.

We're in a. We're in a mastermind. We're actually in Miami to go to this guy's mastermind, and he put out like this. It was this real. On Instagram or something he's talking about. He's like, when you mention ad platforms pre2017 to your millennial uncle, because he, like, runs ads. And it was like, you could target income, you could target credit score, you could target bank balance, you could target this, you could target that. So you could literally just like, pick out exactly who you wanted right before 2017. Now Facebook's like, we value people's privacy, which it's a good thing for sure.

Yeah.

But it all comes down to what you say in the app. Like, you can't. I can't select and say, hey, I want to target Tristan because he has X amount in his bank account.

The creative that does the creative.

Exactly.

Yeah.

And so, like, it really comes down to all of these, like, little minor things. Like, literally the most. Like, to the untrained eye, you wouldn't even pick it up.

Do you guys educate people, though? Sorry to cut you off on the clients, on what they're saying in their creative.

We write the scripts for them. So it's not like they're doing it on their.

On their own. But do you guys assume the liability then by writing the script for them?

Well, we run everything through compliance.

I know I'm asking these questions at the same time to educate myself. Yeah, so like, interrogate.

Yeah, yeah.

Just for me to learn it. Because we run an in house exclusive lead.

Yep.

So that's my business partner Galley. She does all the stuff you guys are talking about.

Yeah, yeah, it would be. It would be like, pretty stupid of us to assume all the liability of compliance. So we. We just like, yes, distribute that risk. But we do run everything through compliance. Yeah, but like, little minor things, like literally just how you put the text on the ad can make a difference in terms of who you attract. So for us, like, we have five people on our team. Their whole job is to research ads, research angles, and find what's going to attract rich people that don't charge back that will qualify for these types of policies.

Yeah.

So, for example, I'll give you an example for annuities. Let's say I'm going after I don't know. Or let's just say I want to. I want to. I want to get leads that will yield me big annuity policies. What I've seen a lot of lead vendors do, and I'm not going to name any names, but big people in the space because you can see what people's ads are on it. Facebook ads library is there. It'll literally just be like an image and it'll say, get a guaranteed income for life. It's like, dude, who do you think that's going to attract? Not the people that you want.

Yeah, right.

So that's terrible. If you take the flip side of that, what would it. What would a good creative look like? They would attract the right people? Well, I'd probably say something like, hey, look, if you. If you have a million dollars or more safe for retirement, and you're wondering how you can protect your money from stock market risk, there's this strategy that blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right. So I would have hooks like that fire, you know, Or I'd be like, how long does a million dollars last in retirement? Fire, you know, so it's like you're speaking to the problems of the rich people as opposed to speaking to problems of poor people. Yeah, and so there's that. There's other marketing concepts where, like. Are you familiar with, like, the five stages of awareness and marketing?

Are you asking me, like, right now, are you. Are you pitching something?

No, I'm not the chain.

I was going to say, like, this sounds like a really good hook. No, I'm not aware of the five.

So basically there's this book. It's a $500 book on Amazon if anyone wants to buy it.

No one's buying it.

We have a copy. And basically it was written by this guy in, like, the 1960s, when all you could do in ads was, like, stuff on a typewriter. Typewriter. So your copy had to just be killer banger. So he's like the OG of marketing. Yeah, yeah. Right. And so there's five stages of market awareness. You have people that are unaware, people that are problem aware, people are solution aware, product aware, and most aware. So the way you speak to different people in those different Markets Unaware, for example, would be like, let's say I was trying to sell you this glass of water. You have no problem. Like, you. You're not even aware that you're thirsty. You're not even aware that water exists. I would have to kind of like lead you in with like a story or something that would engage you. Exactly. 100.

I also have water. Would you like it?

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. Walmart gift card would be how you would speak to unaware people. So you have to, like, educate them all the way.

Yeah.

When you're selling to other people's warm market, you're basically selling to people that are unaware. Yeah, right. That's why these, these companies, they'll have these whole, like, PowerPoint presentations to, like, introduce the product and create everything. Right. Problem Aware would be like, tristan's thirsty. Hey, by the way, there's a glass of water. This is the best glass of water. You should take a drink of it. Yeah, right. So they already know they have a problem. You're just giving them a solution. Solution Aware is like, I need water. They know that there's a solution out there, but they don't exactly know what it is yet. Yeah, right. And then Product Aware is like, for example, you'll see an ad. Like, is an annuity a good investment? Yeah, I'm saying annuity because they already know what an annuity is.

Yeah.

Those are going to be easier people to sell.

Correct.

And then your most aware people.

Let's get you an annuity.

Are going to be like, what's the best annuity?

Yeah.

So like, when you're small and you want to get quick sales, I'll go after Most Aware because I don't have to educate them the whole way. Yeah, but you do have to be educated on the product because oftentimes what we'll find is, like, if agents don't know anything about the products they're selling, if you go after people that are most aware and they know all about the product, the client will know more than the agent. Yeah, right.

You have to align them with, like, the level of the agent.

Exactly. So it's all like the nuance that kind of goes in there, which is what. What our team, like, specializes.

I really like hearing this because a lot of guys don't think.

Yeah.

It's not a matter of, like. It's not super complex where you feel stupid, but it's complex where you like. I like to fight so much. It's like you break down a move. And the best fighting trainers, they break down very like complex things and make it feel like it's deliverable to like a 10 year old, you know what I mean? Without making you feel stupid, but like revealing a lot of holes in your game. And it's like feel like we, we do really well with our ads and our conversion and everything we have. And I'm like, I'm learning things. These 5, 5 market awarenesses and then aligning it with the agents. You don't miss deals, you don't miss out on your, I don't know, cost of acquisition, a client and converting that into roi. All that like super sick. Could you guys tell me about client testimonials? Like who do you guys have? I don't know if you can mention people in particular, but like if you could reference clients that have using your guys services and do really well.

Yeah.

I'll give one example. And most of the work that we do now is like on the advanced market side. We're thinking about. We used to have like a course way back in the day, but we've kind of just only done. Done for you as of recent. But we're thinking about releasing that again. But this guy specifically, he came from doing final expense.

Okay.

But I think he had like an IUL annuity background and he started doing it and I think was on his first $3,000 in ad spend, he wrote $1.2 million in annuities. Wow. And a $100,000 IUL.

So we had another disclaimer to that.

Yeah, definitely. We'll just flash it up on the screen. Yeah. Get the forearm tattoo again.

Yeah.

Like that sounds so fire. I'm clicking on it. Bye.

Bye.

Bye.

Obviously not everyone does that. And the guy has like an extremely developed sales ability and he knows what he's doing.

Correct.

Another one of our. This guy actually he works with us. He was, he's like a trainer within our group.

Yeah.

And like part of the agreement of him working with us is we help him with leads.

Yeah.

And so he sold $88,000 his first month.

Okay.

In IUL. And then in his first three months it was. He was 188k and 483k in annuity and he was working part time. So like disgusting. What I really like about the high ticket insurance policies, they're stickier. They're stickier.

But like think about moving that.

You get one big policy and it's like your ROI is just so, so crazy, you know? And then if you can get referrals, you can sell other things to them. Like I came from the final expense world.

Yeah.

Did the advanced market stuff. Like, it's more complex. You can't be a fudgeing idiot. I see you were with but, like.

Hormozi, I don't know, a couple of years ago or a year ago.

Yeah.

And the biggest thing I get from him, like, the biggest thing that's made me money is just solve richer people's problems. They pay better, and they have, like, the amount of headache that comes with the amount of money is, like, incomparable versus, like, the lower ticket items come with, like, maybe they're not larger headaches, but in comparison to the money that you get for the lower ticket, you know, item that you're solving.

Yeah.

It's way not worth it.

You know what I mean?

Like, the guy giving you 100 bucks versus the guy giving you a hundred thousand. Way different.

100, 100.

Yeah. I think it's worth noting there, too, like, when you're talking about, like, the dude that's only got a hundred bucks, like, it's the same thing with agents. Like, you hear about some of these results, and we've got. I mean, we've got some pretty crazy testimonials, you know, things that, like, there are things that, like, we have testimonials that sometimes I don't even bring up if I'm on a call with an agent because it's, like, borderline.

You don't want to set the expectations.

Yeah. It's, like, unbelievable.

They're like.

They're like. You would think it's. It's like a Miami scammer, right? It's like, dude, it's so. It's so good to be true. It's not possible until you actually see the person talking about their experience and then, like, them actually showing you what's what. But I think the biggest thing, too, is, like, it's not even just like, so much of the people that have, let's say, the. A hundred bucks, but it's even the agents that are, in that same token, like, we're. We're like. What we do is a force multiplier. If you bring someone, like, we're a tailwind, essentially. You know, for anyone that comes to us that's already successful, it's like clockwork.

Yeah.

But if somebody's looking for a bailout, they're on their last 100 bucks. They've got, you know, just enough to get one or two leads, and they're like, I need these guys to save my business. Like, that's not going to work. And it's. You can't wait for the people that are going to move annuity money over and you're like, you know, betting your whole mortgage on that. And like, those are the situations that you've got to get stable before you.

Can go off and hear this guy's.

Annuity deal he's writing right now.

He's literally waiting for the money to come over.

And I'm like, bro, you have to keep selling. If this money doesn't come over, like, I know everything's done, but like, keep.

Selling to the amount of agents that will sell like a massive policy. And they just take like two years off, just immediately. Jeff Bezos.

And I'm like, no dog, no.

Yeah.

Especially a policy, you know what I mean? That's got to pay typically 9, 9 plus months before it's like profit.

Yeah. You know, it's crazy, dude.

What do you guys think is going to happen? I've been making recession videos. I've been doing my financial research. What do you guys think that's going to happen in the insurance space over the next. That's just generally the next year.

Next year? I don't really know. I mean, I would say, like, long term, I think we're going to see a lot more stuff with AI And I think there's a company called. You know, I don't want to scare people, but there's a company called Lemonade. Have you heard of them?

No, they're actually. No, I've heard of them.

They're a publicly traded company. They're worth $4.5 billion. I think they're out of Tel Aviv. And basically they sell renters insurance, pet insurance, and I think now car. They sell car insurance do now.

Yeah, yeah. They're starting to like, roll out bundles and everything too. And they're. They're going like global with it. Yeah.

All over a chat bot.

Just a little chat bot. Oh.

So we. One of our mentors that we pay for coaching, he owns. You ever seen the teeth whitening snow? Teeth whitening? Yeah, yeah. He's the owner of that. So we paid him. He. He sold legion company for like 70 mil a couple years ago.

In cash. Not like stock options.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 70 in cash.

So we, we paid him a bunch of money for coaching and one of the things that he told us to do, which, like, I'd never heard anybody say to do this is go on. You can go on Harvard Business Review and you can buy business case studies for like 11 bucks. Okay. And that's essentially like, you know, did you go to college? No, none of us went to college. Yeah, right. Well, you can get like a Harvard business education for like $11. That's how they do the whole Harvard Business School is they do these case studies.

Okay.

So we were like, okay, our, our ultimate goal is we want to sell like a. I don't know exactly what it'll look like, but some kind of business in the insurance financial services space for a billion bucks. That's our like long term goal. And so we're like, okay, cool, let's just get really fucking smart about insuretech and fintech. Like, where was all this stuff going? Right? So we went and we bought all these case studies and one of the things that like continuously pops up is like selling insurance through a chatbot and through AI. So lemonade, all sold through a chatbot. And so I think what's going to happen is there's basically going to be like two camps of insurance agents.

There's one caveat that I think is actually worth noting there too is it's not just sold to the chatbot, but over 30% of their claims are currently processed through AI. So literally their underwriting department is a fraction of the size.

So their, their margins are insane.

Oh, dude. Of course. But like, and like, maybe they're not right now because they're reinvesting in growth, but the point is, is that like, it's not just the agents that they are currently replacing, but it's both sides. Correct.

Yeah, correct.

That's what I think is super important to note because it's not just going to be the agents and this and that. Like, everyone's going to have to evolve in this industry.

Yeah.

To be able to accommodate these types of things.

Yeah, yeah. Well, it's like you're going to have like most of the agents right now, let's be honest. Have you ever called like a customer service rep? I'll give this example and I think it'll really hit home for the audience. You ever called a customer service rep and you're like, bro, yes, I cannot wait.

Yeah.

Until this person gets replaced by an AI.

Yeah, yeah.

Like, I would rather talk to Chad GBT than you for sure. You know?

Yes.

I'd say, honestly, 80% of agents are like that.

Wow.

You know, I agree.

I think 99% and a lot of.

Them are unethical too. Yeah, yeah. You know, like, if I can, if I can buy something from a chat bot, I know it's going to give me the best policy. And I don't have to talk to, I don't know, Chad, who's gonna sell me policy or whatever. We can bleep out the carrier name. Yeah, whatever. And like jack up the premiums. You guys know what I'm talking about. They. They sell them the most expensive. If I could just buy it through Chatbot, I would do that. Right, so you're gonna have all these people that are just like. They're basically glorified telemarketers.

Yeah.

I think a lot of that is going to go away to some extent because it's getting harder and harder to telemarket even now. Yeah. And I think where all of the wealth. I don't think everybody's going to buy insurance through AI, but I think the simplified stuff, you know, if I can buy a final expense policy through my phone in five minutes. Yeah. If I can buy a term policy, my phone through in five minutes, why would I buy it from an agent? I don't think it's going to go away completely, but people are going to make a lot less money. Yeah, but I think the people who are going to benefit a ton are the ones who are doing more complicated cases. Yeah. For wealthier people.

Correct.

Right. Annuities, cash value, life insurance, premium financing, all these kind of like complex strategies that have really big commissions.

Yeah.

And it's going to be those people who really build a brand.

Correct.

Around themselves online. You know, like the YouTube space on the consumer side of insurance and the like generating leads where you are the one who's positioned as the expert as opposed to just some like, random lead company. Yeah, a lot of that is wide open now. And like, I think the question you should really be asking is like, am I putting myself in a position where somebody would rather talk to me or my company than just an AI? And if not, you should probably get on that other side. Otherwise it's going to be a dark next. Cyber fires.

I just did an AI blood review this morning.

Really?

Through a company called Ways to well out of Texas. I don't know if you guys have heard of them.

No, I haven't. Did you just do it at home or.

Yeah, they sent. Well, they didn't send a robot to come take my blood, but a nurse come into the house, took my blood.

Nurse.

So sit back, jam this needle in my arm. But yeah, literally, you log in. My blood work was uploaded to it.

That's.

And then I can.

Does it measure your test?

It measures every. Every. I care about everything, not just the test. So you go in there. I don't know if. And you can literally AI call this thing and this thing will answer. And he interacts with you and he'll tell you, like, here's what we found in your blood work here. And like, they have it, like, programmed. Like, it's super freaky. See if he answers.

That's wild, dude.

Yeah, bro.

He told you to grab supplements.

Yeah.

And followed up on those words.

That's wild, dude.

And he followed up on the supplements. That's crazy.

Crazy, bro.

Insane. So, like, having, like a little freaked out and then it was like, I need to build the AI Alien for insurance.

Right, Right.

You know what I mean? Like, just couple people. Hey, did you end up getting that life insurance policy we talked about? Like, y. Sickening. Super sickening. What? What should somebody do? They're watching it. I'm literally.

I'm.

I'm not even going to ask this question because I'm going to just tell the question through what I'm seeing.

Yeah.

And you don't even tell me to say this. For those of you guys watching this. He didn't tell me to say this. He didn't pay me to say this. I'm going to say this. All that's going through my mind right now is me getting annuity marketing through you. Or do I get the leads first or do I get the people to sell the annuities first? That's what's going through my mind. And I think people can relate to that. If you're sitting here and there's a piece of the market in the insurance space, you guys just do insurance for now. Yeah, for now. Somebody's watching this and they feel like me and they're like, I want to get into that, but I feel kind of stuck. I don't know if I have enough money. I don't know where to start. Like, what would you advise those people to do that are going to watch this?

Yeah. I got some game on this.

Yeah.

Want me to share? I think the biggest thing is everything is about supply and demand.

Yeah.

Literally everything then. And like, because I'm originally a salesperson. Yeah. So, like, I started off selling insurance, not marketing insurance.

Correct.

But the reason that I'm in marketing for insurance now. Because you cannot sell insurance without marketing.

Yeah.

It is a prerequisite. And so as an. As an owner, somebody maybe like you or somebody who's watching this and they're like, dude, I really want to blow up a business and make this thing happen.

A lot.

A lot of people, they. They try to have the supply before they have the demand, and then they take the supply to an area where there is no demand. Right. Like, for example, if I tried to sell, like, everybody talks about, like, you know, you could sell ice to an Eskimo. Like, that's a great saying. It's funny. But it's actually, like, really stupid in terms of business. Like, if I were to go to the arctic and be like, hey, man, you want to buy this ice? I would be out of business shortly. You know, so it's like when we're looking at trying to build something selling to higher net worth people, whether it be premium finance, whether you. Whether it be annuities, whatever it may be, we have to have the leads first.

Yeah.

The customers are the prerequisite to the sales. And if we have the customers coming to us, then the salespeople will come to you because you have the customers. That's the leverage that anyone should be thinking through.

I'm connect you with the guy. I just acquired and partnered with an agency that specializes in cash value life insurance cases. So larger whole life deals and just deals like that. And I want to connect you with those guys. And they're down here in Miami and super, super bright. Like, super bright when it comes to the big deals.

That's awesome.

He just did a decent annuity. $500,000 annuity.

Yeah.

This last week or so. So he partnered with me. I'm gonna. I'm gonna connect him, and that's gonna be like my sample.

Yeah.

Especially it's gonna be like my, like, dabble. Let's see how you guys do with my 1. One of my guys.

Yeah. I mean, bar man. Yeah.

To.

To answer your question as well, I would say, like, if I were. I'll say, like, if I were you, and then I'll kind of tie in how I would address this if I was a different person in the audience as well. So if as someone who already owns an agency and has agents, I would first ask, do you have an agent that you trust to close annuities?

Yeah.

You do?

Yeah.

Okay. Are they like, a killer? Do they have a track record?

I've got two or three that are like, I trust, but I wouldn't. I haven't met a killer annuity guy, so I don't know.

Got it. Have you sold annuities yourself? No. Okay.

No.

Got it. So I think, like, whenever you're breaking into something new, there's two different ways you can go about it. And this will tie into somebody at home watching this as well is there's always a Big value in going and doing it yourself first so that you can train other people. So I would say for you, I mean, if you learn how to sell annuities at a high level.

I just made a video on that before you came in. Just lead from the front, do it.

There we go.

Yeah, yeah.

I don't think that would be a waste of your time by any means. I think it would be a high ROI use of your time to learn how to sell annuities.

Great content too. Like there's nobody out there filming annuity sales content.

Yeah, yeah.

Like at all.

Yeah.

It seems like a quiet market because I know there's billions of dollars of annuity sales transacted on a quarterly basis.

Yeah. But they're usually growing too.

Yeah, I see it.

Growing.

Yeah, I see it. Because it's in correspondence to the boomer generation.

Yeah.

Their wealth transition, or right now from all other 4 1ks is trillions of dollars.

So the other thing to think about too is like, let's say if you're an annuity guy right now.

Yeah.

And you're doing big, like big bucks every year.

Yeah.

Are you gonna go and tell everybody about the honeyhole that you're sitting on right now?

No, of course not.

Why would you?

Yeah, yeah, we, we, we got paid, I think it was like $4,000 for four hours to do some consulting with this guy. He's a fifty million dollar annuity producer. He's the number one annuity producer in Texas. And you know, for people that like don't know how to sell at all, I'm in the process of setting up like a partnership with him where we're gonna kind of like co create advanced markets training.

That's fire.

Which I think the industry needs, dude.

Because I need it.

There's a lot of guys, like, if I could have gone back and spoke to myself in 2021, I'd be like, get the hell away from final expense. Yeah. But then the follow up question, that is, what do I do? You know, it's like, how am I going to learn this? And so difficult, bro. It's so difficult. So that's something that I think that would probably be valuable for us to do and something we've kind of like toyed with. Yeah. Just like an advanced markets course for all these guys that know they want to get into it but don't know how.

Yeah.

So that's a little bit of a side tangent, but for you, let's just say, let's assume you already know how to sell annuities. Okay, how would I go about marketing yourself and getting those leads? Well, one, I would basically start with paid traffic. Right. I would start with running ads.

Okay.

So if we were working together, essentially what we would do is we run a lot of ads currently, so we kind of know what works in different spaces. We hand you the scripts we already know work.

Yeah.

You film those, now your face is attached to them.

Correct.

So the way it works is you run ads, you then send them to. If you know marketing, you would call it a vsl. If you don't know marketing, you call it a video training. Right. So for anyone that doesn't know marketing, it's just a 15 minute video of you breaking down the concept of an annuity to somebody that doesn't understand what it means. Right. And doing that in a way where like you said earlier, like, you don't want to make people feel like they're stupid. Yeah. But you also don't want to over explain things. So you got to kind of like find that, that balance. And we have presentations that we've already made that people can just use.

Yeah.

And so essentially like, as someone's going through that process, like you imagine your boomer on the other side.

Yeah, yeah.

They came in on this premise, maybe they're a most aware person. Yeah. They're considering, hey, should I buy an annuity? What are the pros and cons? You send them to a video training. You're breaking it down and it's like, cool. So if you want to, you know, have a, have a consultation with someone from our team, we'll basically review your individual situation, take a look at everything and see, hey, would an annuity be right for you? Because ultimately you can watch this 15 minute video, take whatever conclusions you want, but there's nothing like sitting down with an expert. So if you'd like to do that, I have a short survey down below this video. Just going to ask you a couple questions, make sure that, you know, you'd actually qualify. An annuity would be even be a good fit for you, by the way. On that survey, you're going to ask them what are their assets.

Yeah.

What are their goals with the money, you know, their age, everything. So you know that is this even a person worth me spending the time to talk to Fire. And then they go take the survey, book an appointment on your calendar and it's like you can show up, take those consultations.

Yeah.

And then you got like what we're talking about earlier. You put a dollar in, you figure out, hey, am I getting X dollars back. The $50 million annuity producer I was telling you about, he can put $1 in and gets $12 back on average.

Yes.

Which makes me think I'm in the wrong business. I just go do what he's doing. His number one problem is he can't get enough people to do the paperwork on the applications he's closing.

Yeah.

So, like, dude, if you can figure out the advance market stuff and then you have the marketing to do, it's. It's so much less saturated than final expense and term.

Yeah.

Because there's more of a barrier to entry.

Yeah, the barrier to entry is everything.

Yeah.

I want to wrap up with where can people find you guys if they want to work with you? We know all the things they need to do. We know who needs to watch this, who's watching this, etc. We know my market. Do people DM you guys? What do you guys want?

Yeah. So it's cool with you? Yeah. Throw like a link in the description.

Yeah. Everything will be there.

What I'm planning to do is I'm gonna make basically a free mini course that walks them through, like, how our system works on the marketing side.

Okay.

So they can opt in, get that for free.

Okay.

And then if they want to work with us on, like, a higher level, maybe we can we do two links, free thing. And then how to just book the.

Editor of the podcast that edits and uploads.

Cool.

And you just tell them what you want.

Dope. So one link free thing. Learn how to do it free. Second thing, pay us. We do it for you. Boom. Fire.

And do you guys want to attach your Instagrams?

Our Instagram for the company is Advanced agent marketing. Personal Instagram is Tim Shooker S C H U C K E R and.

My personal Instagram is Julian J U L I a n underscore polito p u l I d o 7 we.

Gotta fix that handle, bro.